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(US News)   New fashion makes people invisible to thermal imaging cameras used by drones   (usnews.com) divider line 74
    More: Interesting, infrared camera  
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11819 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 2:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-24 02:42:52 PM
 
2013-01-24 02:45:24 PM
Dafuq is with their eyes??
 
2013-01-24 02:46:20 PM
Or you could just shoot the farkers flying the drones. Just following orders doesn't protect them or their families.
 
2013-01-24 02:46:27 PM
Err, I can see the thermal imaging being defeated by clothing, but their example must be fake surely - how it would it reduce the thermal signature on exposed parts of the skin (face, arms, etc.)?
 
2013-01-24 02:46:29 PM
The "Off" button may fall afoul of FCC regulations
 
2013-01-24 02:46:48 PM
US News gets it wrong. These "fashions" are not about being invisible to drones and infrared cameras, they are about concealing your identity as privacy becomes more and more difficult to maintain.
 
2013-01-24 02:46:48 PM
Hello, my name is Ahmed... Uh, I mean Micheal. And I'm interested in purchasing your new clothing line. Do you ship to Pakistan?
 
2013-01-24 02:48:36 PM
www.terrariaonline.com

They've been wearing this for years. They just couldn't sell it for $500.
 
2013-01-24 02:51:53 PM
What in gods name is that thing modeling the tarps?
 
2013-01-24 02:56:52 PM
TFA "We did it as a statement-it's easy enough to make a suit that covers the entire body or a tactical outfit to be worn by military personnel," Harvey says. "We wanted to make something that was useful and relevant but that would get people talking about the technology."

Well, congratulations, but you completely failed at making it useful. If it's 'easy enough' to make a full-body version that doesn't stand out like a tinfoil tent (judging from his comment that you could make a 'tactical outfit' version, which presumably wouldn't be shiny on the outside), why the heck didn't you? This is just a silly fashion statement; it'd do absolutely fark-all if someone actually wanted to use it to hide.
 
2013-01-24 02:56:55 PM
www.usnews.com

Wait, what? How the fark does a t-shirt mask the thermal heat from the wearer's legs and head? I cry bullschitt.

/Image is hot like a bombed civilian.
 
2013-01-24 02:57:39 PM

Katolu: Dafuq is with their eyes??


yah, me too, answer this.
 
2013-01-24 02:59:13 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Or you could just shoot the farkers flying the drones. Just following orders doesn't protect them or their families.


That only works if you live in the same country where the drone operators live.
If your leaders decide to outsource the policing to other nations, its no longer an option.

/and with the state of the economy in many places, I don't put that beyond any politician.
/Just need to save a few bucks, after all.
 
2013-01-24 03:00:39 PM
Until they make that clothing illegal to posses.

To everyone who wants to do away with the second amendment; that would set a very dangerous precedent. After that; any amendment in the bill of rights would be subject to revision or removal.
 
2013-01-24 03:01:30 PM
We had this amazing technology long ago. It's called a space blanket.
 
2013-01-24 03:01:35 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: [ahprojects.com image 570x853]

No not suspicious.


But what if a person were wearing clothes like that under normal clothing?

BTW, I bet there is a much cheaper alternative. Hell, a "space blanket" would probably do it, and they cost, what, a few bucks.

Yep, I was right: Apparently the Taliban have used them to "foil" thermal imaging.
 
2013-01-24 03:01:44 PM
I'll stick with my tinfoil hat. A LOT cheaper.
 
2013-01-24 03:03:03 PM
t0.gstatic.com

Trolling over the patent.
 
2013-01-24 03:04:16 PM
Wouldn't simply wearing a well insulated set of coveralls with an insulated hood do the same thing? It would be hot, but generally I would expect anything that is actually able to mask someone's heat signature for a long time would be.
 
2013-01-24 03:04:57 PM

Mock26: [www.usnews.com image 620x413]

Wait, what? How the fark does a t-shirt mask the thermal heat from the wearer's legs and head? I cry bullschitt.

/Image is hot like a bombed civilian.


Those two images are the non-cloaked people, one is in black and white, the other in false color, because most thermal imaging cameras display in one of those two modes.

This image shows the effectiveness of the garments in question:

www.usnews.com

Image at left is visible light, image at right is IR.
 
2013-01-24 03:06:30 PM

xria: Err, I can see the thermal imaging being defeated by clothing, but their example must be fake surely - how it would it reduce the thermal signature on exposed parts of the skin (face, arms, etc.)?


You're right.
storiesbywilliams.files.wordpress.com
You really need a full suit that covers your entire body.
designingsound.org
You should also be careful around water.
 
2013-01-24 03:06:34 PM

iheartscotch: Until they make that clothing illegal to posses.

To everyone who wants to do away with the second amendment; that would set a very dangerous precedent. After that; any amendment in the bill of rights would be subject to revision or removal.


Like the eighteenth?
 
2013-01-24 03:07:15 PM

RedPhoenix122: iheartscotch: Until they make that clothing illegal to posses.

To everyone who wants to do away with the second amendment; that would set a very dangerous precedent. After that; any amendment in the bill of rights would be subject to revision or removal.

Like the eighteenth?


Sorry, reading comprehension, Bill of Rights, my mistake.
 
2013-01-24 03:09:01 PM
furiousfanboys.com
Unimpressed
 
2013-01-24 03:11:33 PM
So terrorism has gone mainstream?
 
2013-01-24 03:17:04 PM

NBSV: Wouldn't simply wearing a well insulated set of coveralls with an insulated hood do the same thing? It would be hot, but generally I would expect anything that is actually able to mask someone's heat signature for a long time would be.


Maybe so, but it wouldn't be as fashionable.
 
2013-01-24 03:18:38 PM
I'll stick with my Elven cloak

www.ccs.neu.edu
 
2013-01-24 03:19:19 PM
Or you could just duck into a building, or underground garage ...
 
2013-01-24 03:21:39 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Or you could just duck into a building, or underground garage ...


Or just go behind a tree.
 
2013-01-24 03:23:48 PM
Of course they are embedded with and RFID tags so all wearers can all be targeted at the same time.
 
2013-01-24 03:29:26 PM

dittybopper: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Or you could just duck into a building, or underground garage ...

Or just go behind a tree.


Well, according to the PBS show about drones I watched last night (I think it was Nova), drone cameras are now really good at following people and cars. So I'm not sure a tree (unless it's a really big, leafy one) would afford the kind of protection that a building would. The images from the current drones are quite high-rez. You can tell what people are wearing and what type of car they're driving. They can't distinguish license plates, yet (supposedly).
 
2013-01-24 03:32:29 PM

dittybopper: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Or you could just duck into a building, or underground garage ...

Or just go behind a tree.


Assuming you knew the drone was there. Which you likely would not
 
2013-01-24 03:41:06 PM
Pfft, privacy is so passe.

The in thing now is to allow yourself be monitored. Why? Because the government just spent a ton of money in order to buy expensive monitoring equipment!
 
2013-01-24 03:42:16 PM
I'll stick with my polar bear outfit.

www.thesnellgroup.com
 
2013-01-24 03:46:01 PM
So instead of being monitored by a Drone, you get shot for looking like a Muslim. Big improvement.
 
2013-01-24 03:47:47 PM
Didn't Mythbusters already do this? I seem to remember that they had a terrible time trying to bypass thermal imaging.
 
2013-01-24 03:52:39 PM

Katolu: Dafuq is with their eyes??


Trying to pull off one of these, and being unsuccessful
25.media.tumblr.com

gamemag.ru
 
2013-01-24 03:54:12 PM

BigNumber12: So instead of being monitored by a Drone, you get shot for looking like a Muslim. Big improvement.


Sew this fabric into a trench coat and you'll only look like a shiny hipster.

/There are more efficient ways to stop drones tho.
 
2013-01-24 03:58:47 PM
All they have to do is reverse the polarity on the camera, and it can see you again.
 
2013-01-24 03:59:10 PM
That hoodie might protect you from infrared surveillance for a short time but the heat building up under it would get unpleasant very quickly.

I thought this was interesting: How to Block Thermal Imaging With Your Ghillie Suit
 
2013-01-24 03:59:13 PM
Well, it's a lot cheaper (and less badass) than this solution.
 
2013-01-24 04:01:18 PM

xria: Err, I can see the thermal imaging being defeated by clothing, but their example must be fake surely - how it would it reduce the thermal signature on exposed parts of the skin (face, arms, etc.)?


Came here to say this. The first pic is ludicrously ridiculous.
 
2013-01-24 04:11:53 PM

Mock26: [www.usnews.com image 620x413]

Wait, what? How the fark does a t-shirt mask the thermal heat from the wearer's legs and head? I cry bullschitt.

/Image is hot like a bombed civilian.


You are correct, clothes normally block heat. Silver lined clothes may block more heat, but getting them is not difficult nor does it cost $500. A good number of clothes for the "active" population already have silver in them. All those garments with "antimicrobial technology" (like almost everything from REI, and Cabela's) are lined with silver. Half the anti-micro clothing in Walmart has silver in it. All that scentless clothing they sell hunters uses silver thread too. Let's not even get into the emergency "space" blankets, which use zero silver but somehow are fantastic at hiding a heat signature.

img.timeinc.net
 
2013-01-24 04:16:05 PM

xria: Err, I can see the thermal imaging being defeated by clothing, but their example must be fake surely - how it would it reduce the thermal signature on exposed parts of the skin (face, arms, etc.)?


My guess is that they're also wearing special makeup all over their body?  That could answer the whole "WTF is with their eyes" a few posters here questioned.
 
2013-01-24 04:16:07 PM
You could wear a body suit of this material and leave your head uncovered. You'd then look like a disembodied head floating around.
 
2013-01-24 04:37:16 PM
Odd Bird: I'll stick with my Elven cloak

[www.ccs.neu.edu image 639x271]


I'll stick with my Dwarven ring.
nickowchar.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-24 04:45:22 PM
People dressed in plastic bags
Directing traffic
Some kind of fashion? Shattered

/hey, it's an inverted haiku
 
2013-01-24 04:45:45 PM

HailRobonia: You could wear a body suit of this material and leave your head uncovered. You'd then look like a disembodied head floating around.


Or you could walk around naked wearing only a hat made of this. You'd look like the headless horseman (on foot).
 
2013-01-24 04:46:11 PM

MBooda: Odd Bird: I'll stick with my Elven cloak

[www.ccs.neu.edu image 639x271]

I'll stick with my Dwarven ring.

[nickowchar.files.wordpress.com image 351x242]



Oh?
 
2013-01-24 04:47:30 PM

Mock26: [www.usnews.com image 620x413]

Wait, what? How the fark does a t-shirt mask the thermal heat from the wearer's legs and head? I cry bullschitt.

/Image is hot like a bombed civilian.


Um, you may notice that the only part invisible to thermal imaging is in the shape of a drone with a slash through it... The rest is perfectly clear to thermal imaging cameras. A "statement" if you will.
 
2013-01-24 04:53:15 PM
That's one expensive space blanket.
 
2013-01-24 05:07:19 PM

TommyymmoT: That's one expensive space blanket.


^ THIS ^
 
2013-01-24 05:12:21 PM

RedPhoenix122: RedPhoenix122: iheartscotch: Until they make that clothing illegal to posses.

To everyone who wants to do away with the second amendment; that would set a very dangerous precedent. After that; any amendment in the bill of rights would be subject to revision or removal.

Like the eighteenth?

Sorry, reading comprehension, Bill of Rights, my mistake.


Mistakes happen. You see my point? If one of the rights in the Bill of Rights can be removed; they all can be removed.
 
2013-01-24 05:15:42 PM

downstairs: xria: Err, I can see the thermal imaging being defeated by clothing, but their example must be fake surely - how it would it reduce the thermal signature on exposed parts of the skin (face, arms, etc.)?

My guess is that they're also wearing special makeup all over their body?  That could answer the whole "WTF is with their eyes" a few posters here questioned.


1. It's not "special makeup" it's a pale chick with a lot of eyeliner. It's not everyone's thing, but I dig it.

2. Either it's a stupid "fashion" thing(as opposed to a functional military thing), or the clothes are only covering certain things so that the picture can display the difference.

davidab: somehow are fantastic at hiding a heat signature.


You make it sound like magic and not so much science.

It's simple. There are several materials that will not pass or emit much IR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissivity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_emissivity

Reflection has a lot to do with it, any metal that has a good shine not considerably warm will reflect and appear "invisible".

Many optics, such as eyeglasses will look black on IR camera's(which are set to display white = hot), even with no tint. Large bodies of water are black, but you can detect IR through humidity. They pass visible light, but not so much IR wavelengths that these camera's work on.(hence the dark spots on some eyes in your picture). Interestingly, they (glass) can pass IR from remote controls and such because they work on a different wavelength than what most things emit. You can actually "blind" IR camera's with enough IR LED's, there are guides on lifehacker or one of those sites for disassembling remotes to do this.

And of course, as others mentioned, you can also use a barrier/insulator to mask your radiation, but that tends to build up heat, and once they warm up can emit IR as well as anything else.
 
2013-01-24 05:39:08 PM

downstairs: xria: Err, I can see the thermal imaging being defeated by clothing, but their example must be fake surely - how it would it reduce the thermal signature on exposed parts of the skin (face, arms, etc.)?

My guess is that they're also wearing special makeup all over their body?  That could answer the whole "WTF is with their eyes" a few posters here questioned.


The pic you're referring to is the one where they are showing the unmasked heat in color and also grayscale. You need to scroll down and look at the next picture--it's the one where they're showing the garmet's effectiveness.
 
2013-01-24 06:05:13 PM
umm...isnt the coating on the Army ACU uniform of a similar capability? you know...the one they began issuing in 2006?

^ former member 3/75th Rangers
 
2013-01-24 06:07:15 PM
I don't see how reflective material would defeat thermal imaging for more than a few minutes, at most. Thermal imaging depends on radiant heat, not reflected heat. (I guess it would show reflected heat if there was enough of it, but that woudn't usually be the situation.) A heat-reflecting material might contain radiant heat for a short while (making the wearer all hot and uncomfortable), but then the material itself would warm up due to conduction and/or convection. As soon as the material warmed above ambient temperature it would begin to radiate excess heat and would become visible on a thermal imaging device.

Anyone out there who actuall knows what they're talking about who can agree/disagree?

/seems like it would be more effective to wear heavily insulated material, and keep it on only a short while, than to wear thin reflective material
 
2013-01-24 06:24:02 PM
techprezz.com
Personal cooling unit.

www.cherrybrook.com
Poor man's version.

/all I really wanted was a hat with mist valves on the brim but no, not there
//could have sworn they existed
 
2013-01-24 06:38:40 PM

Raoul Eaton: Anyone out there who actuall knows what they're talking about who can agree/disagree?


That half shirt job would get really good air circulation and not warm up, same for the flowing robes.

Here's a neat video demonstrating what I posted above about glass.

Link

Notice that the glass only emits radiation when constant contact with the skin is present(the glass warms eventually).

The brightest spot on anyone is their hands and face even with regular clothes, as demonstrated with all of the pictures in the article and thread.

In the end, it doesn't really matter too much, because you'll never match the static of the background in any given footage that contains human motion. A human shape walking, for example, is pretty distinctive.

You'll never be "invisible" without a neutral barrier like a pane of glass(or something more simply opaque). The only thing you can hope to really achieve is not send out the flare-like appearance of warm flesh.
 
2013-01-24 06:39:54 PM
/worked on IR equipment for years, in the military
 
2013-01-24 06:59:28 PM

iheartscotch: Until they make that clothing illegal to posses.

To everyone who wants to do away with the second amendment; that would set a very dangerous precedent. After that; any amendment in the bill of rights would be subject to revision or removal.


Civilians have no right or even privileged to own/use something, which it's entire purpose is to evade the rightful authorities.
 
2013-01-24 07:04:33 PM

StoPPeRmobile: iheartscotch: Until they make that clothing illegal to posses.

To everyone who wants to do away with the second amendment; that would set a very dangerous precedent. After that; any amendment in the bill of rights would be subject to revision or removal.

Civilians have no right or even privileged to own/use something, which it's entire purpose is to evade the rightful authorities.


Every state but VA would disagree with you, re speed detectors
 
2013-01-24 07:07:09 PM
er, RADAR detectors
 
2013-01-24 07:10:09 PM

omeganuepsilon: Raoul Eaton: Anyone out there who actuall knows what they're talking about who can agree/disagree?

That half shirt job would get really good air circulation and not warm up, same for the flowing robes.

Here's a neat video demonstrating what I posted above about glass.

Link

Notice that the glass only emits radiation when constant contact with the skin is present(the glass warms eventually).

The brightest spot on anyone is their hands and face even with regular clothes, as demonstrated with all of the pictures in the article and thread.

In the end, it doesn't really matter too much, because you'll never match the static of the background in any given footage that contains human motion. A human shape walking, for example, is pretty distinctive.

You'll never be "invisible" without a neutral barrier like a pane of glass(or something more simply opaque). The only thing you can hope to really achieve is not send out the flare-like appearance of warm flesh.


Thanks. That was informative and interesting.

//what website am I on, now?
 
2013-01-24 07:48:25 PM
"The nearly $500 half-hoodie covers only its wearer's chest and is a striking silver color that would stick out in nearly any crowd. But it renders its wearer nearly invisible to drones."

A half hoodie kind of defeats the purpose of a hoodie. This is the stupidest garments I have ever seen.

I would love to buy a full, baggy version of this, but a half hoodie? That's Paul Ryan levels of tardation.
 
2013-01-24 07:51:01 PM

GRCooper: dittybopper: Smelly Pirate Hooker: Or you could just duck into a building, or underground garage ...

Or just go behind a tree.

Assuming you knew the drone was there. Which you likely would not


Yeah, I know.
 
2013-01-24 08:01:48 PM

PapaChester: "The nearly $500 half-hoodie covers only its wearer's chest and is a striking silver color that would stick out in nearly any crowd. But it renders its wearer nearly invisible to drones."

A half hoodie kind of defeats the purpose of a hoodie. This is the stupidest garments I have ever seen.


mattgunn.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-24 08:02:02 PM

Raoul Eaton: Thanks. That was informative and interesting.

//what website am I on, now?


Fark, but yeah, it hasn't aged well. There was never a time when you'd only get "good" answers, but it was certainly more common in the past.

/"good" = on topic and not pants on head retarded
//not tooting my own horn
 
2013-01-24 09:08:20 PM
*Ahem*

Golf umbrella: $15.
 
2013-01-24 09:54:23 PM
A friend of mine used to fly a FLIR equipped helicopter. A few times I flew with him and was allowed to operate the FLIR. Masking your body with a cloth like that will reduce your radiation. But it does not prevent your being detected by contrast. If your background is very warm or cool, you will appear as a "hole" in the background because you are blocking the view. The closer your surface temperature gets to the background, the less contrast. But those FLIR units can discern differences down to fractions of a degree. Sometimes swapping between "white hot" and "black hot" mode can help with the contrast.

When using FLIR, remember that you are seeing differences in temperature. For example, you can tell how much liquid is in a tank such as a water tower because it is usually warmer where the liquid is. Also, if you look at a parking lot at night, you can tell where vehicles were parked during the day because they were shaded and the spaces are a slightly different shade because they are cooler.
 
2013-01-24 10:30:51 PM

HAMMERTOE: *Ahem*

Golf umbrella: $15.


Not everyone can afford a golf cart.
 
2013-01-25 12:30:35 AM
lol, a repeat and STILL total bullshiat


Ever watch the nighttime thermal imaging from aircraft strafing in Iraq? YOU CAN SEE THE FOOTPRINTS WHERE THE DIRT WAS DISTURBED.

So how do you win a war by never taking a piss, moving, farting, breathing or breaking into a sweat? That's the only way such shiat will work.
 
2013-01-25 12:40:15 AM
I did some work with the Border Patrol and thermal cameras where we had a guy go out into a field. All he had to do was put on a blanket and he disappeared from the camera view, no fancy reflectorized fabric required. As long as he didn't wrap it tightly around himself, causing it to pick up his body heat by conduction, it remained effective.
 
2013-01-25 08:48:07 AM

jjorsett: All he had to do was put on a blanket and he disappeared from the camera view, no fancy reflectorized fabric required.


It can be good enough, for a short time(or with a frame suspending it from the body). But the other requirement is that the person is NOT focused in on close. In other words it will help you avoid a scan of a general area, but if a camera is focused on a high traffic area, people will notice a shape moving if they're paying attention. Nothing cold/ambient moves, and animals don't really look like a dude with a blanket on him.

prjindigo: YOU CAN SEE THE FOOTPRINTS WHERE THE DIRT WAS DISTURBED.


See above. If it's a wide shot from the distance, you don't see that kind of detail. Camera operators tend not to zoom in, as it were, if they don't see a bright spot. You can foil the purpose of the camera, yes, but you cannot directly become invisible to it under scrutiny.
 
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