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(Sun News Network)   Anti-wrinkle cream made out of foreskins. Worth protesting? Yes, if you're a member of the Canadian Foreskin Awareness Project   (sunnewsnetwork.ca) divider line 109
    More: Amusing  
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4631 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 2:41 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
 
2013-01-24 02:31:12 PM  
Or a member of H.O.O.P.
qph.cf.quoracdn.net
 
2013-01-24 02:34:45 PM  
I always thought that Rabbis sold their used foreskins to gays for chewing gum.
 
2013-01-24 02:35:54 PM  
I feel Oprah's pain, lost a fortune investing in this failed snack company.  I thought it would be a slam-dunk as they combined the best qualities of jerky and Funyons.


i253.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-24 02:38:52 PM  
C-FAP?
 
2013-01-24 02:40:04 PM  
worth protesting if you care a farking one iota about ethics at all.
 
2013-01-24 02:44:49 PM  
I've always wondered why we didn't call the scrotum the aftskin. You know, symmetry in names.

Besides, I have bigger worries:
i4.ytimg.com
 
2013-01-24 02:45:27 PM  
Anti-wrinkle cream made out of foreskins.

S-t-r-e-t-c-h your budget.
 
2013-01-24 02:45:57 PM  
but if you rub it, it turns into a suitcase!

Thank you, and call your mother.
 
2013-01-24 02:46:02 PM  
That just sounds...gross. Really, really gross.
 
2013-01-24 02:46:17 PM  
My foreskin makes its own cream

/just kidding I don't have foreskin
 
2013-01-24 02:46:34 PM  
what a cockamamie idea.

/made that joke before
 
2013-01-24 02:47:22 PM  
Please don't let this become a thing. I don't want to read about Chinese and Indian foreskin farms and a burgeoning international foreskin black market in five years.
 
2013-01-24 02:48:17 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: C-FAP?


Actually, just FAP....(fap, fap...) Apparently they aren't international yet. Although, Italy's will be fun when it's started. (I-FAP)
 
2013-01-24 02:48:30 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Please don't let this become a thing. I don't want to read about Chinese and Indian foreskin farms and a burgeoning international foreskin black market in five years.


could be a great investment place for poor people...you know, get a skin in the game.
 
2013-01-24 02:48:55 PM  
i1151.photobucket.com
This one goes out to the good folks in the Canadian Foreskin Awareness Project!
Come on, helmet-heads! Clap along!
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
I've got you under my skin.
I've got you deep in the dong of me.
So deep in my dong that you're really a part of me.
I've got you in my foreskin
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
 
2013-01-24 02:49:25 PM  
I think they're making a mountain out of a mohel.
 
2013-01-24 02:50:06 PM  
vanity and stupidity: the cornerstone of mankind
 
2013-01-24 02:50:36 PM  
the promotional items all full of great ideas to stay younger looking. Tips, if you will.
 
2013-01-24 02:51:22 PM  
But...aren't they all wrinkly already?
 
2013-01-24 02:53:15 PM  
There's a docking joke in there somewhere.
 
2013-01-24 02:53:29 PM  
Briscreme?
img2-2.timeinc.net
/a little dab'll do ya
 
2013-01-24 02:54:00 PM  
I was sort of alright with the article until we got to this part:

"I would like Oprah to come to her senses and realize that all children have a fundamental human right to keep all their genitalia and to decide for themselves if anything gets cut off," Callender said Wednesday.

Parents make all sorts of decisions for their children that have a wider impact on their lives than whether to circumcise or not.

/really don't understand some guys obsessiveness over other peoples foreskin
//haters in 3...2...
 
2013-01-24 02:54:20 PM  
Every lady using that cream should be put on probation for child molestation.

Please demonstrate for the court where she virtually touched you.
 
2013-01-24 02:56:37 PM  
v010o.popscreen.com

/Endorses this product.
 
2013-01-24 02:57:34 PM  
Anti-wrinkle cream made out of the foreskins, evidence of similia similibus curentur?
 
2013-01-24 02:57:58 PM  

busy chillin': HotWingConspiracy: Please don't let this become a thing. I don't want to read about Chinese and Indian foreskin farms and a burgeoning international foreskin black market in five years.

could be a great investment place for poor people...you know, get a skin in the game.


Hey Oooooooooh
 
2013-01-24 03:01:33 PM  
Oh for farks sake. Isn't there something else of importance in this world to get your cheesedick involved with, other than foreskins?
 
2013-01-24 03:03:02 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: C-FAP?


I thought that, too.
 
2013-01-24 03:06:18 PM  

gingerjet: I was sort of alright with the article until we got to this part:

"I would like Oprah to come to her senses and realize that all children have a fundamental human right to keep all their genitalia and to decide for themselves if anything gets cut off," Callender said Wednesday.

Parents make all sorts of decisions for their children that have a wider impact on their lives than whether to circumcise or not.

/really don't understand some guys obsessiveness over other peoples foreskin
//haters in 3...2...


Partly it's about gender symmetry - if female genital cutting is horrific and needs to be stopped, then male genital cutting is also horrific and needs to be stopped. It's fascinating that the anti male-circumcision folks really focus on a child's inherent right to bodily integrity and to consent, as an individual, to modification, whereas the anti female-genital cutting crowd tend to focus not on agency but on the necessity of bodily integrity. Double standards... fun times. Some great anthropological writing on this stuff too.

Not sure I'd have my baby boy circumcised, if I had a baby boy. I might let him decide to do it at 14, like a Maasai.
 
2013-01-24 03:07:28 PM  
Project: Samson
 
2013-01-24 03:09:56 PM  
Somewhere I have some skin cream made out of placenta. Maybe I should try foreskin next time.
 
2013-01-24 03:10:51 PM  
FTFA: "Callender expects "a dozen to two dozen people" to attend the protest."
12 people? I think that's being WAY too generous. They're not exactly endowed with a sizable base of supporters. I don't many people can get their hands on this issue and gaining support would be very hit-and-bris.

Penis.
 
2013-01-24 03:11:33 PM  
You know what the best part of this is? Rub the jar when it's getting empty, and bam, you've got two more.
 
2013-01-24 03:14:21 PM  

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: MaudlinMutantMollusk: C-FAP?

Actually, just FAP....(fap, fap...) Apparently they aren't international yet. Although, Italy's will be fun when it's started. (I-FAP)


And the ensuing legal battle with Apple over the iFAP app.
 
2013-01-24 03:14:53 PM  
These anti-circ people spend way too much time obsessing over their dicks. And our dicks. Its pretty much a sign of an unhealthy mind. If it sucked that bad, we would have stopped doing it about 3500 years ago, trust me. It's really a minor cosmetic difference and women like it cut, so its gonna be around for a while.
 
2013-01-24 03:15:35 PM  
slummysinglemummy.files.wordpress.com

/ouch
 
2013-01-24 03:18:31 PM  

misanthropologist: gingerjet: I was sort of alright with the article until we got to this part:

"I would like Oprah to come to her senses and realize that all children have a fundamental human right to keep all their genitalia and to decide for themselves if anything gets cut off," Callender said Wednesday.

Parents make all sorts of decisions for their children that have a wider impact on their lives than whether to circumcise or not.

/really don't understand some guys obsessiveness over other peoples foreskin
//haters in 3...2...

Partly it's about gender symmetry - if female genital cutting is horrific and needs to be stopped, then male genital cutting is also horrific and needs to be stopped. It's fascinating that the anti male-circumcision folks really focus on a child's inherent right to bodily integrity and to consent, as an individual, to modification, whereas the anti female-genital cutting crowd tend to focus not on agency but on the necessity of bodily integrity. Double standards... fun times. Some great anthropological writing on this stuff too.

Not sure I'd have my baby boy circumcised, if I had a baby boy. I might let him decide to do it at 14, like a Maasai.


As a formerly 14 year old boy, I can tell you that no 14 year old from now until the end of time is going to be voluntarily circumcised. There is just no way any teen is going to decide to let anyone cut any piece of his dick off for any reason. Ever.
 
2013-01-24 03:20:19 PM  
You mean my rig wouldn't looked old and wrinkled if I'd been spared the indignity of circumcision?
 
2013-01-24 03:21:30 PM  

SuperChuck: misanthropologist: gingerjet: I was sort of alright with the article until we got to this part:

"I would like Oprah to come to her senses and realize that all children have a fundamental human right to keep all their genitalia and to decide for themselves if anything gets cut off," Callender said Wednesday.

Parents make all sorts of decisions for their children that have a wider impact on their lives than whether to circumcise or not.

/really don't understand some guys obsessiveness over other peoples foreskin
//haters in 3...2...

Partly it's about gender symmetry - if female genital cutting is horrific and needs to be stopped, then male genital cutting is also horrific and needs to be stopped. It's fascinating that the anti male-circumcision folks really focus on a child's inherent right to bodily integrity and to consent, as an individual, to modification, whereas the anti female-genital cutting crowd tend to focus not on agency but on the necessity of bodily integrity. Double standards... fun times. Some great anthropological writing on this stuff too.

Not sure I'd have my baby boy circumcised, if I had a baby boy. I might let him decide to do it at 14, like a Maasai.

As a formerly 14 year old boy, I can tell you that no 14 year old from now until the end of time is going to be voluntarily circumcised. There is just no way any teen is going to decide to let anyone cut any piece of his dick off for any reason. Ever.


cdn.scragged.com

I'll take two!
 
2013-01-24 03:23:28 PM  
See, I stopped reading the FARK headline at foreskins. I'm sure as hell not gonna click that link

SuperChuck: Not sure I'd have my baby boy circumcised, if I had a baby boy. I might let him decide to do it at 14, like a Maasai.

As a formerly 14 year old boy, I can tell you that no 14 year old from now until the end of time is going to be voluntarily circumcised. There is just no way any teen is going to decide to let anyone cut any piece of his dick off for any reason. Ever.


Except that people all over the world do it all the time.
 
2013-01-24 03:25:36 PM  

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: See, I stopped reading the FARK headline at foreskins. I'm sure as hell not gonna click that link

SuperChuck: Not sure I'd have my baby boy circumcised, if I had a baby boy. I might let him decide to do it at 14, like a Maasai.

As a formerly 14 year old boy, I can tell you that no 14 year old from now until the end of time is going to be voluntarily circumcised. There is just no way any teen is going to decide to let anyone cut any piece of his dick off for any reason. Ever.

Except that people all over the world do it all the time.


Voluntarily? As in, you can join the manly warriors even if you don't? Somehow I don't think so.
 
2013-01-24 03:29:08 PM  
I was gonna let y'all fight it out and quietly go but the stuff cause I'm getting old.

1oz SkinMedica TNS Essential Serum by SkinMedica $143.00

1.8 oz. SkinMedica Dermal Repair Cream by SkinMedica $80.00

Skin Medica TNS Night Eye Repair-0.5 oz by SkinMedica $77.70


Nvmd
 
2013-01-24 03:29:54 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: C-FAP?


Came here for this.
 
2013-01-24 03:35:04 PM  
Available at:
FOOORRRRRSKIN MILLS!
 
2013-01-24 03:36:45 PM  
Ok so , foreskin facial cream is bad..

Can they still be used as currency to buy a woman?
 
2013-01-24 03:45:45 PM  

willfullyobscure: These anti-circ people spend way too much time obsessing over their dicks. And our dicks. Its pretty much a sign of an unhealthy mind. If it sucked that bad, we would have stopped doing it about 3500 years ago, trust me. It's really a minor cosmetic difference and women like it cut, so its gonna be around for a while.


Your assurances that people would stop putting their kids through something horrible just because it "sucks" doesn't hold up to experience. (i.e. feet binding, female circumcision, head flattening, head elongating, removal of canine teeth, ...) These traditions are hard to root out, usually for the reason you cite; it's touted as merely cosmetic, and seen as essential if you want the kid to look 'right'.
 
2013-01-24 03:47:28 PM  

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: MaudlinMutantMollusk: C-FAP?

Actually, just FAP....(fap, fap...) Apparently they aren't international yet. Although, Italy's will be fun when it's started. (I-FAP)


s1.postimage.org

No, it's CAN-FAP, as the fellow above is pointing out.
As in "You CAN FAP without tissues and lotion if you haven't been snipped"

You really have to admit it..whoever came up with that name was absolutely BRILLIAN!!!
 
2013-01-24 03:49:05 PM  
Canada...lol
 
2013-01-24 03:49:30 PM  

oh_please: But...aren't they all wrinkly already?


Yeah. But it's really easy (and fun) to get the wrinkles out.
 
2013-01-24 03:49:49 PM  

gingerjet: I was sort of alright with the article until we got to this part:

"I would like Oprah to come to her senses and realize that all children have a fundamental human right to keep all their genitalia and to decide for themselves if anything gets cut off," Callender said Wednesday.

Parents make all sorts of decisions for their children that have a wider impact on their lives than whether to circumcise or not.

/really don't understand some guys obsessiveness over other peoples foreskin
//haters in 3...2...


8.5 smooth delivery
 
2013-01-24 03:50:57 PM  

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: I think they're making a mountain out of a mohel.


The nice thing about dealing with a mohel is that you don't have to pay them. They do, however, take tips.
 
2013-01-24 03:59:18 PM  
Circumcision =/= cutting off a girl's clit.
 
2013-01-24 03:59:19 PM  
Q: How do you circumcise a whale?

A: Four skin divers.
 
2013-01-24 03:59:56 PM  
Turtlenecks fell out of style decades ago.
 
2013-01-24 04:01:51 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: MaudlinMutantMollusk: C-FAP?

Actually, just FAP....(fap, fap...) Apparently they aren't international yet. Although, Italy's will be fun when it's started. (I-FAP)



No, it's CAN-FAP, as the fellow above is pointing out.
As in "You CAN FAP without tissues and lotion if you haven't been snipped"

You really have to admit it..whoever came up with that name was absolutely BRILLIAN!!!


Is that a pride flag?
 
2013-01-24 04:10:01 PM  
If any of these ladies would like dick on their face for free, I will be happy to help out
 
2013-01-24 04:16:44 PM  

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: MaudlinMutantMollusk: C-FAP?

Actually, just FAP....(fap, fap...) Apparently they aren't international yet. Although, Italy's will be fun when it's started. (I-FAP)


Just wait till it catches on in all of western Europe (WE-FAP)
 
2013-01-24 04:18:30 PM  
circumcision is bad and you should feel bad.
/cut.
//sex hurts.
///not enough skin down there so sex causes it to rip/tear.
////will also impact me when I finally get my surgery.
//yes I'm TG.
 
2013-01-24 04:19:36 PM  
how is it legal to make a product out of human body parts? what the actual fark?
 
2013-01-24 04:23:59 PM  

Qwertyette: circumcision is bad and you should feel bad.
/cut.
//sex hurts.
///not enough skin down there so sex causes it to rip/tear.
////will also impact me when I finally get my surgery.
//yes I'm TG.



Wait, you're gonna go get your dick COMPLETELY CHOPPED OFF and you're complaining about being circumised? wtfamireading.jpg
 
2013-01-24 04:28:24 PM  
I cancelled my membership years ago. Bunch of dicks.
 
2013-01-24 04:32:59 PM  
But the tips were enormous.
 
2013-01-24 04:37:20 PM  
Don't women have to keep rubbing their face to keep the wrinkles away?
 
2013-01-24 04:37:35 PM  
Foreskin on their faces, pregnant horse urine in their vaginas.
Aging women know how to live.
 
2013-01-24 04:41:27 PM  

exparrot: but if you rub it, it turns into a suitcase!

Thank you, and call your mother.


I knew that would be here
 
2013-01-24 04:44:34 PM  

Qwertyette: circumcision is bad and you should feel bad.
/cut.
//sex hurts.
///not enough skin down there so sex causes it to rip/tear.
////will also impact me when I finally get my surgery.
//yes I'm TG.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
 
2013-01-24 04:49:05 PM  
Anti-wrinkle cream there may be, but anti-fat bastard cream there is none!

/hopefully not too obscure
 
2013-01-24 04:49:59 PM  

Flakeloaf: Qwertyette: circumcision is bad and you should feel bad.
/cut.
//sex hurts.
///not enough skin down there so sex causes it to rip/tear.
////will also impact me when I finally get my surgery.
//yes I'm TG.

The plural of anecdote is not data.


dude, she's getting the ENTIRE THING CHOPPED OFF. That's not anecdote OR data. That's the loneliest part of the bell curve, out where the buffalo roam and the wild things howl at the moon.
 
2013-01-24 04:52:50 PM  
I must protest the unrestrained jocularities that have become current in this thread!
 
2013-01-24 04:53:10 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: how is it legal to make a product out of human body parts?


Ever read O. Henry's The Gift of the Magi? What did Della sell?
 
2013-01-24 04:56:45 PM  
Smegma?
 
2013-01-24 04:59:26 PM  

willfullyobscure: Flakeloaf: Qwertyette: circumcision is bad and you should feel bad.
/cut.
//sex hurts.
///not enough skin down there so sex causes it to rip/tear.
////will also impact me when I finally get my surgery.
//yes I'm TG.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

dude, she's getting the ENTIRE THING CHOPPED OFF. That's not anecdote OR data. That's the loneliest part of the bell curve, out where the buffalo roam and the wild things howl at the moon.


If the she has a penis then getting it chopped off sounds like a pretty danged good idea to me even if she was born with it. Because doncha know, my opinion totally matters. I do hope the pain from a botched operation isn't the only deciding factor here though or we could be in for some sad.
 
2013-01-24 05:30:39 PM  

gingerjet: Parents make all sorts of decisions for their children that have a wider impact on their lives than whether to circumcise or not.



I see fark threads all the time complaining about parents who allow their teenage girls to get cosmetic surgery. So why are so many of those same people completely accepting of cosmetic surgery being performed on newborns?
 
2013-01-24 05:36:59 PM  

misanthropologist: gingerjet: I was sort of alright with the article until we got to this part:

"I would like Oprah to come to her senses and realize that all children have a fundamental human right to keep all their genitalia and to decide for themselves if anything gets cut off," Callender said Wednesday.

Parents make all sorts of decisions for their children that have a wider impact on their lives than whether to circumcise or not.

/really don't understand some guys obsessiveness over other peoples foreskin
//haters in 3...2...

Partly it's about gender symmetry - if female genital cutting is horrific and needs to be stopped, then male genital cutting is also horrific and needs to be stopped. It's fascinating that the anti male-circumcision folks really focus on a child's inherent right to bodily integrity and to consent, as an individual, to modification, whereas the anti female-genital cutting crowd tend to focus not on agency but on the necessity of bodily integrity. Double standards... fun times. Some great anthropological writing on this stuff too.

Not sure I'd have my baby boy circumcised, if I had a baby boy. I might let him decide to do it at 14, like a Maasai.


The problem with that is, female circumcision is done to remove the woman's ability to enjoy sex, whereas male circumcision doesn't have the same effect. In fact one could argue that male circumcision actually enhances sexual arousal.
 
2013-01-24 05:49:22 PM  

the ha ha guy: gingerjet: Parents make all sorts of decisions for their children that have a wider impact on their lives than whether to circumcise or not.


I see fark threads all the time complaining about parents who allow their teenage girls to get cosmetic surgery. So why are so many of those same people completely accepting of cosmetic surgery being performed on newborns?


Assuming for a moment that your claim that parents have their infant boys circumcised solely for "cosmetic" reasons is true, when was the last time you saw someone trying to organize a demonstration against cosmetic surgery for teenage girls?

If you don't want your boy circumcised, don't have him circumcised.
 
2013-01-24 05:57:06 PM  

Flakeloaf: willfullyobscure: Flakeloaf: Qwertyette: circumcision is bad and you should feel bad.
/cut.
//sex hurts.
///not enough skin down there so sex causes it to rip/tear.
////will also impact me when I finally get my surgery.
//yes I'm TG.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

dude, she's getting the ENTIRE THING CHOPPED OFF. That's not anecdote OR data. That's the loneliest part of the bell curve, out where the buffalo roam and the wild things howl at the moon.

If the she has a penis then getting it chopped off sounds like a pretty danged good idea to me even if she was born with it. Because doncha know, my opinion totally matters. I do hope the pain from a botched operation isn't the only deciding factor here though or we could be in for some sad.


Actually, they kinda turn it inside out, not chop it off. The more material, the better. Sadly, I have very little material (if I owned a sports car, it would need to be 30 feet long and have 2,000 HP).

Foreskin is actually shown to have more nerve endings in it then the glans, so yes, you're losing something. It also aids in elasticity and when there is a lack of lubrication. There is a reason humans evolved with it, and not without it. That is, unless you believe the earth is only 6,000 years old. Even if you did, didn't God make us out of his own Image? so why fark it up?

In summary, go eat a hotdog wrapped in bacon.
 
2013-01-24 06:05:12 PM  

tirob: Assuming for a moment that your claim that parents have their infant boys circumcised solely for "cosmetic" reasons is true, when was the last time you saw someone trying to organize a demonstration against cosmetic surgery for teenage girls?



I wasn't speaking of protests, I was speaking of the hypocrisy of those on Fark who go to one thread and condemn cosmetic surgery for 14 year old girls, then go to the next thread and hand out hero tags to those who perform cosmetic surgery on their newborn boys.


tirob: If you don't want your boy circumcised, don't have him circumcised.



And if I don't want to be circumcised because sex and masturbation feel like rubbing sandpaper on my penis... Should I just jump in my time machine and kidnap myself? Use a dildo and imagine what sex is supposed to feel like? Get a sex change operation and hope for the best?

/Tried everything, including the suggestions of multiple doctors
//Now I've just accepted my 'forever alone' status until someone comes up with a foreskin transplant, which likely won't be available until I'm too old to have sex anyway
 
2013-01-24 06:11:52 PM  

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Anti-wrinkle cream made out of the foreskins, evidence of similia similibus curentur?


Bizarrely, slightly less pseudo-scientific than other nonsense. Human foreskin fibroblasts are actually a useful experimental model system for cell motility, wound healing, and so on. Even used as feeder cells for stem cells.

However, only SLIGHTLY less pseudo-scientific, in this appliucation.
 
2013-01-24 06:29:40 PM  

the ha ha guy: tirob: Assuming for a moment that your claim that parents have their infant boys circumcised solely for "cosmetic" reasons is true, when was the last time you saw someone trying to organize a demonstration against cosmetic surgery for teenage girls?


I wasn't speaking of protests, I was speaking of the hypocrisy of those on Fark who go to one thread and condemn cosmetic surgery for 14 year old girls, then go to the next thread and hand out hero tags to those who perform cosmetic surgery on their newborn boys.


tirob: If you don't want your boy circumcised, don't have him circumcised.


And if I don't want to be circumcised because sex and masturbation feel like rubbing sandpaper on my penis... Should I just jump in my time machine and kidnap myself? Use a dildo and imagine what sex is supposed to feel like? Get a sex change operation and hope for the best?

/Tried everything, including the suggestions of multiple doctors
//Now I've just accepted my 'forever alone' status until someone comes up with a foreskin transplant, which likely won't be available until I'm too old to have sex anyway


There are actually devices to "grow" it back. Much like the way a mastectomy patient will have a sort of balloon placed under the breast to regain skin so brest implants can be inserted. It stretches the skin which causes new cells to grow.

//the more you know*
 
2013-01-24 06:31:03 PM  

the ha ha guy: tirob: Assuming for a moment that your claim that parents have their infant boys circumcised solely for "cosmetic" reasons is true, when was the last time you saw someone trying to organize a demonstration against cosmetic surgery for teenage girls?

I wasn't speaking of protests, I was speaking of the hypocrisy of those on Fark who go to one thread and condemn cosmetic surgery for 14 year old girls, then go to the next thread and hand out hero tags to those who perform cosmetic surgery on their newborn boys.


I get it. My point, in case you missed it, is that the fellow who is organizing this protest has no counterparts among the "hypocrites" you describe, who, however hypocritical they may be, don't waste their own and everyone else's time with stunts like the man who is organizing this protest is doing.

the ha ha guy: And if I don't want to be circumcised because sex and masturbation feel like rubbing sandpaper on my penis... Should I just jump in my time machine and kidnap myself? Use a dildo and imagine what sex is supposed to feel like? Get a sex change operation and hope for the best?


I am not a doctor and the only advice I could possibly give you is to see someone who specializes in this sort of thing. There must be other men out there, circumcised and not, who have this sort of problem.

There's also this Wiki page that might interest you.
 
2013-01-24 06:31:29 PM  

Gordianus: Anti-wrinkle cream there may be, but anti-fat bastard cream there is none!

/hopefully not too obscure


Not even close.
 
2013-01-24 06:37:44 PM  
Sales are bris.

/foreskinned is forewarned.
 
2013-01-24 06:52:52 PM  

lake_huron: arrely, slightly less pseudo-scientific than other nonsense. Human foreskin fibroblasts are actually a useful experimental model system for cell motility, wound healing, and so on. Even used as feeder cells for stem cells.


It's stupid. How are someone else's dead ground up cells going to do anything about wrinkles.
 
2013-01-24 07:08:27 PM  

tirob: I get it. My point, in case you missed it, is that the fellow who is organizing this protest has no counterparts among the "hypocrites" you describe, who, however hypocritical they may be, don't waste their own and everyone else's time with stunts like the man who is organizing this protest is doing.



Whether by negative social connotation, a reluctance on the part of doctors, the relatively high cost of the procedure, or any number of other factors, cosmetic surgery on young girls is rare. So even if a group were to protest the procedure, they would be about as effective as a protest against cannibalism.

Circumcision, on the other hand, is so common that some doctors do it anyway without asking the parents, and many consider being uncircumcised to be a negative trait, and those who dislike the procedure are demonized and portrayed as infringing on the rights of the parents to make the choice (despite the fact that the parent's choice inherently removes that same right from the boy who is circumcised).


As for your earlier point about "assuming" that it's only a cosmetic procedure, who needs to assume when the pro-circumcision crowd makes that exact claim to defend their point of view?
 
2013-01-24 07:25:27 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: I've always wondered why we didn't call the scrotum the aftskin. You know, symmetry in names.

Besides, I have bigger worries:
[i4.ytimg.com image 320x180]



Dean Venture: Hank! I had my pubes shaved. I'm gonna put them under the pillow for the tooth fairy!

Hank Venture: Did the doctor see that creepy dog dork of yours?

Dr. Venture: Hank, don't brag to your brother about your circumcision.

My mom once said "just be glad you didn't live in the ancient times when they used a sharp rock!"

/!אױ װײ
 
2013-01-24 07:26:46 PM  
Who the fark has time to actually think of, and worry about shiat like this?

These folks seriously need some farking jobs....
 
2013-01-24 07:41:36 PM  
They also use human foreskins to grow tissue for skin grafts like Apligraf. One article, that looked pretty dubious and conspiracy theory/wackjob at first glance, had these facts that turned out to be true...

"one boy's foreskin can grow bio-engineered skin in a lab to the size of a football field. That's 4 acres of new skin or around 200,000 units of manufactured skin, which is enough skin to cover about 250 people and sells at $3,000 a square foot. Considering that there are 1.25 million neonate foreskins circumcised each year in the U.S alone, this translates to one of the most lucrative trades, if not THE most lucrative trade, in human body parts ever in the history of humanity."

Pretty shady dealings considering these companies are making millions, yet doctors are charging you for the procedure that provides the product.
 
2013-01-24 09:23:35 PM  

the ha ha guy:

Whether by negative social connotation, a reluctance on the part of doctors, the relatively high cost of the procedure, or any number of other factors, cosmetic surgery on young girls is rare. So even if a group were to protest the procedure, they would be about as effective as a protest against cannibalism.


We don't know any of that for sure. There have been protests against the practice of cosmetic surgery of the vulva for women here and there. I don't know how common a practice that is.

the ha ha guy:

Circumcision, on the other hand, is so common that some doctors do it anyway without asking the parents, and many consider being uncircumcised to be a negative trait, and those who dislike the procedure are demonized and portrayed as infringing on the rights of the parents to make the choice (despite the fact that the parent's choice inherently removes that same right from the boy who is circumcised).

Citation for all of this please? I'm pretty sure that any doctor (or moyl) around here who performed any procedure on a kid without the parents' permission would run the risk of losing his/her license pronto. You may find that people in Israel and in many Muslim countries would ostracize uncircumcised boys and men (girls and women in those places are often taught not to have sexual relations with such men), but I've never heard of such ostracism being common in this country. And whom did I demonize or accuse of infringing on anyone's rights?

the ha ha guy:
As for your earlier point about "assuming" that it's only a cosmetic procedure, who needs to assume when the pro-circumcision crowd makes that exact claim to defend their point of view?


I think you may be putting words in the mouth of the "pro-circumcision crowd." Circumcision is usually defended first and foremost by citing its benefits in preventing the spread of STDs, particularly in places where water is either scarce or polluted, and where condoms don't keep well in the heat.
 
2013-01-24 10:59:09 PM  

tirob: Citation for all of this please? I'm pretty sure that any doctor (or moyl) around here who performed any procedure on a kid without the parents' permission would run the risk of losing his/her license pronto.



In the 70's, when circumcision rates were around 80%, it was just assumed that a boy would be circumcised unless the parents requested otherwise. (At least that's the excuse they gave to my parents when it was done to me.)

It may not be as common today, but a quick google search brings up plenty of recent examples, few lawsuits, almost no legal victories (except for botched operations), and literally no cases of a doctor losing their license.


tirob: You may find that people in Israel and in many Muslim countries would ostracize uncircumcised boys and men (girls and women in those places are often taught not to have sexual relations with such men), but I've never heard of such ostracism being common in this country. And whom did I demonize or accuse of infringing on anyone's rights?



I was speaking of the overall trend, not any individual comment. And the ostracism is declining in recent years, but it still exists in many areas.


tirob: I think you may be putting words in the mouth of the "pro-circumcision crowd." Circumcision is usually defended first and foremost by citing its benefits in preventing the spread of STDs, particularly in places where water is either scarce or polluted, and where condoms don't keep well in the heat.



None of those conditions exist within the USA, so why use that as a defense?

And people in favor of circimsicion often rrefer to it as a cosmetic procedure rather than a medical one, even in this very thread.

willfullyobscure: It's really a minor cosmetic difference and women like it cut, so its gonna be around for a while.


But since fark commenters aren't usually considered an academic source, here's what a few doctors say:

http://www.circumcisioncenter.com/faq.htm
"Q: For what reasons do you perform circumcisions?
A: The most common reasons for which I perform circumcisions are:
· Cosmetic appearance
"

http://www.srsmiami.com/circumcision.html
"A circumcision is perhaps the highest cosmetic calling given to a urologist."

http://www.circumcision-clinic.com/
"Our qualified surgeons carry out circumcisions on all age groups of males, including cosmetic circumcisions for adult males."

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/31/health/he-asadults31
"More common are men at the other end of the spectrum. Dr. David Cornell, a urologist who runs the Circumcision Center in Atlanta, sees men who want a circumcision because they prefer the appearance and because they want to feel more comfortable socially.

"I hear a thousand times a year from men who don't feel that they look like most other men in the locker room. In our society, there's an overriding preference for circumcision," says Cornell, who performs 250 procedures a year on men who, for cosmetic reasons, want a circumcision or a revision to one they don't think looks right.

Circumcision constitutes 30% of Cornell's urology practice. He charges $2,500 for the procedure and does not take insurance. Though frequently attacked by anti-circumcision activists, he says, "I'm doing a cosmetic operation on a consenting adult. Why he's doing it is his business."
"


I'm not denying that there may be medical benefits to the procedure, but it seems that many people cite cosmetic appearance rather than health benefits as the main reason for circumcision.
 
2013-01-24 11:01:53 PM  

Qwertyette: Flakeloaf: willfullyobscure: Flakeloaf: Qwertyette: circumcision is bad and you should feel bad.
/cut.
//sex hurts.
///not enough skin down there so sex causes it to rip/tear.
////will also impact me when I finally get my surgery.
//yes I'm TG.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

dude, she's getting the ENTIRE THING CHOPPED OFF. That's not anecdote OR data. That's the loneliest part of the bell curve, out where the buffalo roam and the wild things howl at the moon.

If the she has a penis then getting it chopped off sounds like a pretty danged good idea to me even if she was born with it. Because doncha know, my opinion totally matters. I do hope the pain from a botched operation isn't the only deciding factor here though or we could be in for some sad.

Actually, they kinda turn it inside out, not chop it off. The more material, the better. Sadly, I have very little material (if I owned a sports car, it would need to be 30 feet long and have 2,000 HP).

Foreskin is actually shown to have more nerve endings in it then the glans, so yes, you're losing something. It also aids in elasticity and when there is a lack of lubrication. There is a reason humans evolved with it, and not without it. That is, unless you believe the earth is only 6,000 years old. Even if you did, didn't God make us out of his own Image? so why fark it up?

In summary, go eat a hotdog wrapped in bacon.


Well, good luck with everything. My circumcision worked out great, I'm sorry yours did not. Have you looked into jelqing and rejuvenation? I've seen...impressive...things done with Vitamin E oil and regular training.

If it's any consolation, I'm a (more or less)straight male with a huge thing for ultra femme traps, and I wouldn't think twice about hitting on you before or after your GRS. Your junk is probably right up my alley. Or not, but you know what I mean.
 
2013-01-25 01:02:57 AM  
s3-ec.buzzfed.com
 
2013-01-25 01:35:49 AM  
Oil of Oy vey.
 
2013-01-25 01:51:38 AM  
I had no idea that they did anything with the foreskin other than throw it away. It's a pretty sickening process considering that there is no pain killers and that 1 percent of them go awry.

Man, I just bet that there is a perfume or cologne that is made from discarded hermoids and it's probably one of the top sellers.
 
2013-01-25 03:11:54 AM  

Internet Meme Rogers: Circumcision =/= cutting off a girl's clit.


The female orgasm is a myth.
 
2013-01-25 03:44:32 AM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: how is it legal to make a product out of human body parts? what the actual fark?


I would like an explanation as to how this differs from lampshades and soap.
 
2013-01-25 03:48:09 AM  
Any religion that requires the removal of a body part is too extreme for me.
 
2013-01-25 04:52:46 AM  

the ha ha guy: tirob: Citation for all of this please? I'm pretty sure that any doctor (or moyl) around here who performed any procedure on a kid without the parents' permission would run the risk of losing his/her license pronto.

In the 70's, when circumcision rates were around 80%, it was just assumed that a boy would be circumcised unless the parents requested otherwise. (At least that's the excuse they gave to my parents when it was done to me.)

I'll take your word for it as far as the norms that existed where you were born, but I stand by what I said when it comes to the current state of events around here.

the ha ha guy:
the ostracism is declining in recent years, but it still exists in many areas.

Nobody I have ever met cares one way or the other. Indeed, I had never heard of such "ostracism" existing here until you brought it up.

the ha ha guy: Circumcision is usually defended first and foremost by citing its benefits in preventing the spread of STDs, particularly in places where water is either scarce or polluted, and where condoms don't keep well in the heat.

None of those conditions exist within the USA, so why use that as a defense?

1. Because STDs exist in the US.
2. Because even in the US, there are places where clean water is hard to come by and condoms don't keep well.
3. Because American boys and men sometimes travel, or are sent, outside the US.
 
2013-01-25 04:10:33 PM  

tirob: I'll take your word for it as far as the norms that existed where you were born, but I stand by what I said when it comes to the current state of events around here.



Many news articles and lawsuits state otherwise.


tirob: Nobody I have ever met cares one way or the other. Indeed, I had never heard of such "ostracism" existing here until you brought it up.



And I've seen uncircumcised guys teased by circumcised guys and outright rejected by women.

With that being said, the plural of anecdote is not evidence, so neither of our experiences prove any national cultural norm.


tirob: 1. Because STDs exist in the US.
2. Because even in the US, there are places where clean water is hard to come by and condoms don't keep well.
3. Because American boys and men sometimes travel, or are sent, outside the US.



1. Condoms are available at virtually every convenience store in the country, and many places give them out for free. If you have to rely largely on a surgical procedure to remain STD free, chances are you're going to end up with an STD anyway.

2. You're right, it may be harder for uncircumcised men to keep themselves clean if they're stranded in the desert for weeks on end, but the vast majority of those born in the USA never encounter such conditions in the first place, certainly not to the extent that it's necessary to circumcise 80-90% of boys born within the country.

3. See #2.


As for the actual medical stats, circumcision is no more effective than a condom. Meanwhile, circumcision presents a non-zero risk of complications resulting from the surgery itself, sometimes leaving the patient effectively sterile.

For Barry in Africa, born to a poor family in a country where condoms are all but banned, circumcision is probably a good idea. For Richard in Delaware, born to a third generation business owner and had a 6-digit trust fund to his name before he even had a name, circumcision likely isn't going to be his last line of defense against STDs or hygiene. Yet only one of these families has to deal with a nurse who refuses the wishes of the parents and only attempts to get permission after the procedure is finished.
 
2013-01-25 05:43:47 PM  

the ha ha guy: tirob: 1. Because STDs exist in the US.
2. Because even in the US, there are places where clean water is hard to come by and condoms don't keep well.
3. Because American boys and men sometimes travel, or are sent, outside the US.


1. Condoms are available at virtually every convenience store in the country, and many places give them out for free. If you have to rely largely on a surgical procedure to remain STD free, chances are you're going to end up with an STD anyway.

2. You're right, it may be harder for uncircumcised men to keep themselves clean if they're stranded in the desert for weeks on end, but the vast majority of those born in the USA never encounter such conditions in the first place, certainly not to the extent that it's necessary to circumcise 80-90% of boys born within the country.

3. See #2.


As for the actual medical stats, circumcision is no more effective than a condom. Meanwhile, circumcision presents a non-zero risk of complications resulting from the surgery itself, sometimes leaving the patient effectively sterile.

For Barry in Africa, born to a poor family in a country where condoms are all but banned, circumcision is probably a good idea. For Richard in Delaware, born to a third generation business owner and had a 6-digit trust fund to his name before he even had a name, circumcision likely isn't going to be his last line of defense against STDs or hygie ...


I may not have made myself clear. To avoid STDs, nothing beats confining your sexual activity to partners who have been tested as clean. The second best line of defense is without a doubt a condom. Circumcision is not, repeat NOT, a method of avoiding STDs. All it can do is improve your chances of not contracting an STD by an increment, and in many cases that increment is probably small. I don't have the figures handy, but I believe that there have been studies that showed that circumcised men in southern Africa contract HIV at a rate that is something like 20 percent lower than uncircumcised men.

Even if studies of this type existed for the US, my guess is that anti-circumcision people would claim that the numbers are cooked. I would nevertheless suspect that even here, getting circumcised reduces the risk of getting an STD by a small increment. I will tell you this: If a doctor told me that my infant son's risk of contracting an STD in later life (and perhaps passing it on) would be reduced by five percent, or two percent, or even one percent, by having him circumcised, but that there is a risk of one hundredth of one percent that circumcision will cause him some sort of sexual dysfunction later on in life, I myself would tell that doctor to go ahead and clip the kid's foreskin. You may come out differently on this based on your own experience, but given what I understand to be the rarity of circumcision-related problems such as you report, I wouldn't hesitate.
 
2013-01-25 06:23:33 PM  

tirob: Circumcision is not, repeat NOT, a method of avoiding STDs.


Fair enough. I apparently misinterpreted your earlier comment:

tirob: Circumcision is usually defended first and foremost by citing its benefits in preventing the spread of STDs



tirob: I will tell you this: If a doctor told me that my infant son's risk of contracting an STD in later life (and perhaps passing it on) would be reduced by five percent, or two percent, or even one percent, by having him circumcised, but that there is a risk of one hundredth of one percent that circumcision will cause him some sort of sexual dysfunction later on in life, I myself would tell that doctor to go ahead and clip the kid's foreskin.



From the various studies I've found, when used in conjunction with a condom, circumcision gives virtually no protection against STDs. The only condition I've found that is definitively reduced is penile cancer, which has a rate of 1 in 100,000 uncircumcised men.

From those same studies, the risk of developing a permanent complication as a result of a circumcision is about 1 in 10,000. (Note that I'm specifically excluding treatable conditions from this number)

To me, that math just doesn't add up.
 
2013-01-25 07:09:43 PM  

the ha ha guy: tirob: Circumcision is not, repeat NOT, a method of avoiding STDs.

Fair enough. I apparently misinterpreted your earlier comment:

tirob: Circumcision is usually defended first and foremost by citing its benefits in preventing the spread of STDs


tirob: I will tell you this: If a doctor told me that my infant son's risk of contracting an STD in later life (and perhaps passing it on) would be reduced by five percent, or two percent, or even one percent, by having him circumcised, but that there is a risk of one hundredth of one percent that circumcision will cause him some sort of sexual dysfunction later on in life, I myself would tell that doctor to go ahead and clip the kid's foreskin.


From the various studies I've found, when used in conjunction with a condom, circumcision gives virtually no protection against STDs. The only condition I've found that is definitively reduced is penile cancer, which has a rate of 1 in 100,000 uncircumcised men.

From those same studies, the risk of developing a permanent complication as a result of a circumcision is about 1 in 10,000. (Note that I'm specifically excluding treatable conditions from this number)

To me, that math just doesn't add up.


1. The benefits of circumcision's preventing the contraction of STDs are incremental. And they're a third line of defense at best. I think we agree on that.

2. I don't know the figures, so I'll accept yours as accurate for the sake of argument. The joker in the deck for me would be that I have no way of knowing whether my son is going to get in the habit of using a condom all the time. Better, IMO, to take the 1/100 of 1 percent chance that you cite rather than run the risk that he won't use a condom, and that some sort of bug will get under his foreskin years down the road that would not have gotten there if he had been circumcised.
 
2013-01-25 09:00:58 PM  

tirob: The joker in the deck for me would be that I have no way of knowing whether my son is going to get in the habit of using a condom all the time.



Based on numbers from the CDC, circumcision reduces the risk of contracting HIV by 15% during vaginal sex, but not at all for anal sex. The difference among other STDs is negligible at best (and a few STDs have a higher rate among circumcised men).

Also based on CDC numbers, there are ~1.1 million in the US with HIV, 25% of whom are female.

Assuming every HIV infected female in the country is sexually active and does not insist on protection, that put's the risk of being exposed to an HIV infected partner at around 1 in 1000.

According to the CDC, the female-to-male transmission rate of HIV is 1 in 1000 exposures, though some studies put the number as low as 1 in 2500 and high as 1 in 50.

Assuming a 1 in 1000 chance of encountering an HIV infected partner, and a 1 in 50 chance of being infected by said partner, that puts the overall rate of one encounter resulting in an HIV infection at roughly 1 in 50,000.

With a 15% reduction in risk among circumcised heterosexual men who never have unprotected anal sex, the risk is reduced to 1 in 57,000.

With these rates, circumcising a boy to prevent HIV is akin to amputating a girl's breasts to prevent breast cancer, which is far more common than any STD.


Also, among doctors within the US, I haven't found any who cite a lower STD risk as a main reason for circumcision. I see that fact cited by pro-circumcision groups, but doctors (people who have more than an internet GED in medicine) usually cite cosmetic appearance as the first reason, penile cancer as a second, and preexisting medical conditions as a third.


Therefore, I stand by my original assertion that in developed countries, circumcision is little more than cosmetic surgery with little to no medical benefit.
 
2013-01-25 10:01:04 PM  

the ha ha guy: tirob: The joker in the deck for me would be that I have no way of knowing whether my son is going to get in the habit of using a condom all the time.

Therefore, I stand by my original assertion that in developed countries, circumcision is little more than cosmetic surgery with little to no medical benefit.

Based on numbers from the CDC, circumcision reduces the risk of contracting HIV by 15% during vaginal sex


It does not matter to me what circumcision is considered anywhere. The number you cite above may not be high enough for you to consider circumcision a real medical benefit, but it is high enough for me.

In deciding whether or not I would have my infant son circumcised, I would not only think of the risk that he will contract an existing disease, but the risk that he will contract a disease that does not exist yet (nobody in, say, 1955 could have predicted the AIDS outbreak that occurred 25 years later). I would also think of the risk that he will *spread* a disease that he contracts. If the worst occurs and the circumcision causes him some sort of sexual dysfunction, at least my son will be the only one harmed by my decision. If he grows up and spreads a disease around because of my failing to have him circumcised, he could harm dozens of people.

circumcising a boy to prevent HIV is akin to amputating a girl's breasts to prevent breast cancer

Well, no, not really. In 9999 cases out of 10,000, according to your figures, circumcising a boy will have no effect on his sex life or his ability to father children. In 100 cases out of 100, amputating a girl's breasts will prevent her from being able to breast-feed her kids.
 
2013-01-25 10:30:18 PM  

tirob: It does not matter to me what circumcision is considered anywhere.



Then why do you keep falsely claiming that "circumcision is usually defended first and foremost by citing its benefits in preventing the spread of STDs"? If it's your opinion, then state that it's your opinion, but don't claim to speak for the entire medical community.


tirob: The number you cite above may not be high enough for you to consider circumcision a real medical benefit, but it is high enough for me.



1 in 10,000 might be a low enough rate for you to get your boy circumcised, but it's too high for me.

If you like circumcision, do it to your own body, but leave your son out of it. By the time he's old enough to have sex, he's old enough to take responsibility for his own actions, and old enough to get a circumcised if he so chooses. If your decision leaves him sterile, do you think he's going to be thankful to you for gambling with his life based solely on your assumption that he's going to be irresponsible?

Yes, the rate of death or sterility is low (albeit higher than many other medical procedures), but those numbers don't matter for that boy who can never have sex, or that mother whose child was killed by the father's insistence that the boy doesn't have a slightly different looking penis.


tirob: If he grows up and spreads a disease around because of my failing to have him circumcised teach him to use condoms, he could harm dozens of people.



Fixed that for you.
 
2013-01-26 05:44:07 AM  

the ha ha guy: tirob: It does not matter to me what circumcision is considered anywhere.

Then why do you keep falsely claiming that "circumcision is usually defended first and foremost by citing its benefits in preventing the spread of STDs"? If it's your opinion, then state that it's your opinion, but don't claim to speak for the entire medical community.


It was a claim made in good faith based on things I have heard all my life--indeed, I had never heard up to now the notion that circumcision is promoted mainly for its alleged aesthetic benefits. If circumcision were done for cosmetic (or religious) purposes *only,* I would no more have a son circumcised than have a daughter's ears pierced.

the ha ha guy: tirob: The number you cite above may not be high enough for you to consider circumcision a real medical benefit, but it is high enough for me.

1 in 10,000 might be a low enough rate for you to get your boy circumcised, but it's too high for me.


Then we disagree.

the ha ha guy:
If you like circumcision, do it to your own body, but leave your son out of it. By the time he's old enough to have sex, he's old enough to take responsibility for his own actions, and old enough to get a circumcised if he so chooses. If your decision leaves him sterile, do you think he's going to be thankful to you for gambling with his life based solely on your assumption that he's going to be irresponsible?

Yes, the rate of death or sterility is low (albeit higher than many other medical procedures), but those numbers don't matter for that boy who can never have sex, or that mother whose child was killed by the father's insistence that the boy doesn't have a slightly different looking penis.


It's not a matter of liking circumcision. And as I wrote above, I don't really care what the kid's peter looks like. It's a matter of weighing perceived benefits (15 percent reduced risk that the kid will contract HIV if he comes in contact with a carrier, according to your figures, for one) versus risks (the ones you enumerate). If something goes wrong--it could--the kid (and/or his mother) will hate my guts, and I would have a hard time living with myself. I would also have a hard time living with myself if a few years down the pike my boy contracted an STD and then spread it around the neighborhood. If I had left him uncircumcised, I would wonder if my decision could have had something to do with his having done that.

There are boys who start having sex long before the ages where they are (legally, at any rate) responsible for their own actions.

the ha ha guy:

tirob: If he grows up and spreads a disease around because of my failing to teach him to use condoms, he could harm dozens of people.

Fixed that for you.


I'd teach him to do that too. There have, however, been teenage boys who have been known to disregard parental advice on this as well as other matters.
 
2013-01-26 10:51:19 AM  

tirob: I would also have a hard time living with myself if a few years down the pike my boy contracted an STD and then spread it around the neighborhood.



But that reduction is not definitive, it comes from studies of ONE group of people, studying ONE STD. According to some studies done elsewhere, it appears that circumcision may actually INCREASE the likelyhood of getting an STD.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10349415
"STD prevalence

Until recently, no studies have examined the impact of circumcision on overall STD incidence. The data indicate that circumcised men may be a higher risk for an STD (Table 5). This is consistent with trends seen in the USA. As routine neonatal circumcision has been implemented, the rate of STDs has increased rather fallen. Among first-world nations, the USA has one of the highest rates of STDs. HIV infection and male circumcision. In the report by Cook et al. [26] the average uncircumcised man had 2.16 STDs diagnosed, while in the average circumcised man it was 2.32; in an Australian study, there was no difference (1.48 vs 1.44 STDs diagnosed per patient) [27].

HIV

There have been 36 case-controlled studies published in peer-reviewed journals addressing the relationship between the foreskin and HIV infection; the results have been inconsistent. Several studies performed in STD clinics have found the foreskin to be a risk factor [17,18,21,25,29,30,68-72], while several random population surveys, which do not have the population bias of an STD clinic study, have found circumcised men to be at higher risk [32,73-75]. Several studies have failed to detect a statistically significant difference between men with and without a foreskin [31,76-87]. In several studies, when the populations are controlled for GUD, number of sexual partners and other factors, the results differ significantly from the raw data. The USA has the highest incidence of HIV infection, as well as the highest incidence of male circumcision amongst developed nations. This speaks against the protective effect of circumcision [89]. The inconsistency of the results and the number of confounding factors make it impossible to link the foreskin to HIV infection [36,90]
."


I'm not calling for an all-out ban on circumcision, I'm just asking that parents have informed consent prior to the procedure. That is, no more mumbling "we're taking him to the nursery, let us know if you don't want him circumcised" (this happened to a relative while I was in the room). And I'd like to see the laws strengthened so that judges can't say "no harm no foul" when the doctor admits to performing the procedure without consent.

If you want your son circumcised out of tradition, preference, aesthetics, etc, by all means do so, but don't pretend that it has any definitive medical benefits, or that doctors should be allowed to make that call on their own without proper consent.
 
2013-01-26 12:08:36 PM  

the ha ha guy: tirob: I would also have a hard time living with myself if a few years down the pike my boy contracted an STD and then spread it around the neighborhood.

But that reduction is not definitive, it comes from studies of ONE group of people, studying ONE STD. According to some studies done elsewhere, it appears that circumcision may actually INCREASE the likelyhood of getting an STD.


All true. I base what I write on the data I have seen, most (but not all) of which supports the idea that circumcision reduces the risk of getting *HIV* from heterosexual contact.

That the US has a relatively high rate of STDs among developed countries may or may not be related to high rates of circumcision. We just don't know.

the ha ha guy:

I'm not calling for an all-out ban on circumcision, I'm just asking that parents have informed consent prior to the procedure. That is, no more mumbling "we're taking him to the nursery, let us know if you don't want him circumcised" (this happened to a relative while I was in the room). And I'd like to see the laws strengthened so that judges can't say "no harm no foul" when the doctor admits to performing the procedure without consent.


I'd have no objection whatsoever to this, and to the best of my knowledge the law here (PA) requires this sort of thing in any case.

the ha ha guy:

If you want your son circumcised out of tradition, preference, aesthetics, etc, by all means do so, but don't pretend that it has any definitive medical benefits

Definitive? No. But likely, according to the medical opinion I have read. Which is good enough for me until evidence comes along that tends to show the contrary.  And incidentally, if a dangerous new STD ever crops up the way AIDS did in the late '70s, and if it can be shown that that STD is more likely to be contracted by circumcised men than by uncircumcised men, I will change my mind immediately.
 
2013-01-26 12:54:54 PM  

tirob: I'd have no objection whatsoever to this, and to the best of my knowledge the law here (PA) requires this sort of thing in any case.



The law requires it in every state, but the judges almost unanimously refuse to enforce it.


tirob: And incidentally, if a dangerous new STD ever crops up the way AIDS did in the late '70s, and if it can be shown that that STD is more likely to be contracted by circumcised men than by uncircumcised men, I will change my mind immediately.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9091693
"Several instructive features of the data presented in Table 2 deserve attention. First, circumcision status does not appear to lower the likelihood of contracting an STD. Rather, the opposite pattern holds. Circumcised men were slightly more likely to have had both a bacterial and a viral STD in their lifetime. While these differences are not statistically significant, they do not lend support to the thesis that circumcision helps prevent the contraction of STDs. Indeed, for chlamydia, the difference between circumcised men and uncircumcised men is quite large. While 26 of 1033 circumcised men had contracted chlamydia in their lifetime, none of the 353 uncircumcised men reported having had it."
 
2013-01-26 01:42:39 PM  

the ha ha guy:
tirob: And incidentally, if a dangerous new STD ever crops up the way AIDS did in the late '70s, and if it can be shown that that STD is more likely to be contracted by circumcised men than by uncircumcised men, I will change my mind immediately.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9091693
"Several instructive features of the data presented in Table 2 deserve attention. First, circumcision status does not appear to lower the likelihood of contracting an STD. Rather, the opposite pattern holds. Circumcised men were slightly more likely to have had both a bacterial and a viral STD in their lifetime. While these differences are not statistically significant, they do not lend support to the thesis that circumcision helps prevent the contraction of STDs. Indeed, for chlamydia, the difference between circumcised men and uncircumcised men is quite large. While 26 of 1033 circumcised men had contracted chlamydia in their lifetime, none of the 353 uncircumcised men reported having had it."


Something like this would factor into any opinion I would have, certainly. It is my understanding, however, that every known strain of chlamydia is treatable with antibiotics; this would lead me to classify the disease as less dangerous than, say, AIDS or HIV.

I can't get your link to come up on my computer, unfortunately. According to this page, among men, chlamydia appears to me to be much more prevalent among submissive homosexual men ("Men who have sex with men (MSM) who have receptive anal sex should be tested for chlamydia each year") than any other male population group. This would lead me to believe that factors other than whether the subjects of the study you linked were circumcised might explain the study's result, one such factor perhaps being the percentage of the subjects who were submissive gay men. In the context of the question that interests us here, btw, I think it would be worth knowing whether the sex partners of the submissive gay men who participated in the study were circumcised or not.
 
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