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(The Register)   Microsoft admits WIndows 8's poor sales are due to crappy software design and lack of useful features, vows to completely re-write it by next month. JUST KIDDING, they squarely place blame on tablet manufacturers, who couldn't keep up with demand   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 151
    More: Stupid, software designers, PC makers, Microsoft, Windows, Texas Instruments  
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2304 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Jan 2013 at 10:26 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-24 10:24:27 AM
I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.
 
2013-01-24 10:30:58 AM

SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.


This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.
 
2013-01-24 10:31:50 AM

SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.


Basically this. I've tried it in VMs, I tried it as my primary desktop, and the "modern interface" just ends up getting in the way most of the time. As it has been said repeatedly, for touch screens it's great. Hell, even a decent multitouch trackpad it's alright. But for a kb/mouse driven UI it's irritating at best.
 
2013-01-24 10:32:32 AM

Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.


I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not.
 
2013-01-24 10:34:11 AM
Solid little OS, shiatty user interface. Five bucks says that the start menu and desktop default for PCs has been already added to SP1 planning.
 
2013-01-24 10:34:36 AM
Yesterday I was handed an HP laptop and was asked to "fix it".

Turned out to the be the first Windows 8 experience I've had.

As a Mac guy I get the sense of the idea Microsoft has with this and I like what they think they want to do, but the execution of how to get there... ugh.

It took me about 10 seconds to find Desktop, it took me another 10 seconds to discover that they've removed Control Panel and everything else useful from Desktop. 5 minutes later I found out how to turn on the "Administration Tiles" on the main Metro screen

The scrolling is phone-like, the icons are terrible, the menus are too sparse, it's just too disjointed.

I went to uninstall Norton so I could turn Windows Defender on (the renamed MSE), but I couldn't find Windows Defender anywhere. I found the Search Charm, typed in Windows Defender, first result came up, clicked it, error message telling me that something else was already the default antivirus and I needed to go disable that first in the Security Center. Of course Windows didn't offer to link me to the Security Center, I had to spend another 5 minutes figuring out how to dig that up.

It feels like everything I really need is intentionally buried behind 5 layers of searching crap, while the crap I don't need has gigantic animated tiles for quick access. It's like running MS-DOS and not being able to type "dir".
 
2013-01-24 10:35:34 AM
Don't worry. Shortly an officially santioned Microsoft White Knight will be here to assure us all of how stupid we all are for disliking the metro interface because the desktop still exists and you can pull up a stunted version of the control panel and administrative tools by moving your mouse to the corner of the screen and right-clicking the invisible, poorly-documented button for it.

/ that said, getting your tech news from The Register is about as bright as getting your political news from Fox News Channel....
// if you must use Windows 8, learn all the .msc files, a couple useful Powershell commands and all the keyboard shortcuts
/// then you can be almost as productive as you were on Windows 7, and for only the small cost of an upgrade!
 
2013-01-24 10:35:45 AM

SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.


Nailed it. I have a laptop that has a touchscreen, and installed Win8 on that, and runs quite nicely (a bit faster than 7, to my surprise). Actually pretty easy to make it transition between a Win7 and Win8 UI, but I won't install it on my desktop, if only because doing an upgrade instead of a clean install is a bad idea, and I have a LOT of stuff on my desktop
 
2013-01-24 10:36:20 AM
Hardware manufacturers DID come late to the game. They're pushing a TON of new convertibles and tablets this year at CES, but so long after the Win8 launch I can see where MS is peeved. Nothing they can really do about it, mind you. Deal with it.
 
2013-01-24 10:39:52 AM
It's awesome on tablets but junk on desktops. Desktop option is fine, seems a little faster to me actually, but it's dumb that it's not the default. Metro or whatever should be a feature, not the whole thing.
 
2013-01-24 10:39:52 AM
Blame the victims Microsoft. Classy!

I don't mind Windows 8 once you banish the start screen and install classic shell it's fine. Why MS couldn't see that touch-screen consumer tablets vs. corporate desktops have very different needs is beyond me.

Windows 8RT has also confused the market. The inclusion of the app-less traditional desktop has been uber confusing for the non-tech savvy. they've already sullied the brand with lots of frustrated consumers who wanted to run traditional desktop apps on their ARM tablets. Had the released the Surface Pro to begin with they may have gained some traction.
 
2013-01-24 10:42:21 AM
I predict that Microsoft will double down on the stupid in this case, and REQUIRE everyone to use Metro on future versions of Windows.

It's going to suck.

Now is the time for some competing operating system to start getting ready to take MS down.
 
2013-01-24 10:46:00 AM
Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!
 
2013-01-24 10:48:17 AM

doczoidberg: I predict that Microsoft will double down on the stupid in this case, and REQUIRE everyone to use Metro on future versions of Windows.

It's going to suck.

Now is the time for some competing operating system to start getting ready to take MS down.


Isn't this where some Linux weenie jumps in and points out that THIS is the year of Linux and how much better it is because open and potato?

/Linux is Ok
//MacOS is my thing
///Hates Winblows in any form
 
2013-01-24 10:50:15 AM
oh, and using the 'metro' interface in server 2012. that was just pure awesome, because as awesome as a tablet interface is on a regular desktop, having it in a server UI was even more awesome.
 
2013-01-24 10:50:51 AM

narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!


That number counts the licenses sold to manufactures to put onto new products. The number that were actually sold to end users has nothing to do with that.
 
2013-01-24 10:53:48 AM

narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!


Sold to OEMs to install on new machines. How many of those are still sitting on the store shelf gathering dust? How many that were sold were wiped and had Windows 7 installed?
 
2013-01-24 10:55:41 AM

ampoliros: narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!

That number counts the licenses sold to manufactures to put onto new products. The number that were actually sold to end users has nothing to do with that.


Yeah, because it's not like OSX comes preloaded on a Mac or anything.
 
2013-01-24 10:56:06 AM
It's ok but I do have a few WTF nits:

1) So you can adjust the color of windows borders... but you can't adjust the color of window border text. Want a dark color? Well you won't be able to read the black text in the window border.
2) Why can't I natively create tiles for the start screen? Seriously. Just create a new square, pick an image, and choose a program from a list. Nope, gotta be one of a few apps and even then you can't customize the tile. You have to use a 3rd party program to help you do this. It's just shortcuts on a screen. Seriously, Packard Bell used something similar back in the 386 days and they gave you actual customizations to work with.

And in classic MS form they don't let you pick the background you want for something without a registry hack, this time it's the start screen. Why is dropping a user selected image into the background such a hard thing. Gotta be one of 8 presets. I guess they do that to preserve resources on a cellphone, but I'm using a desktop. They really should have made a "separate but equal" OS for both a desktop and a cellphone.

Just a few nits that make me scratch my head. The two I mentioned above were literally the first two things I tried after moving to Windows 8. How did that get past any usability test... or was all testing performed on phones?
 
2013-01-24 10:56:10 AM

SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.


this, I looked into it, but didn't seem to mouse friendly. plus I like windows 7
 
2013-01-24 10:56:25 AM

narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!


two points

First, a lot of the 'sold' licenses were license pre-buys by the big OEMs. They might not get installed on a real computer until next Xmas.

Second, Win8 is the default OS for most computers now. Most people that buy PCs just buy what is on the shelf. So they are hardly 'choosing' Win8, they are just getting a new computer and Win8 happens to be on it.
 
2013-01-24 10:57:10 AM

error 303: It's awesome on tablets but junk on desktops. Desktop option is fine, seems a little faster to me actually, but it's dumb that it's not the default. Metro or whatever should be a feature, not the whole thing.


I think the idea is to try and force all new apps to be Modern UI so the same app works on Windows, Tablet, Mobile without having to build different versions of an app for each one, whereas if they made it a feature people would mostly keep making desktop apps, which would mean the tablet/mobile app "ecosystem" wouldn't build as fast. So basically they are trying to leverage their perceived bulletproof dominance of the desktop market to boost their chances of being successful in the tablet and mobile realms, thinking that there is little risk of losing desktop users to Mac/Linux no matter how much annoyance and confusion trying to fasttrack the switch.
 
2013-01-24 10:59:16 AM

ampoliros: That number counts the licenses sold to manufactures to put onto new products. The number that were actually sold to end users has nothing to do with that.


Nor does it track people who buy OEM Windows 8 machines and downgrade them to Windows 7.

doczoidberg: Now is the time for some competing operating system to start getting ready to take MS down.


And just like the Vista days, we have the ideal time when Apple should release their OS to Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba, and Acer. They wouldn't get much of the commercial market, but would easily get 25-50% of home PC buyers to order OSX instead of Windows 8.

But they won't. I swear, it's like they want money - just not all of it.
 
2013-01-24 10:59:28 AM

narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!


Says the Windows fanboi?

Win 8 on a desktop is a steaming pile of crap. On a tablet, it's fine.
 
2013-01-24 11:02:39 AM

clkeagle: ampoliros: That number counts the licenses sold to manufactures to put onto new products. The number that were actually sold to end users has nothing to do with that.

Nor does it track people who buy OEM Windows 8 machines and downgrade them to Windows 7.

doczoidberg: Now is the time for some competing operating system to start getting ready to take MS down.

And just like the Vista days, we have the ideal time when Apple should release their OS to Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba, and Acer. They wouldn't get much of the commercial market, but would easily get 25-50% of home PC buyers to order OSX instead of Windows 8.

But they won't. I swear, it's like they want money - just not all of it.


Apple is a hardware company. They don't want a bunch of Apple clones around. They tried that once, it failed miserably.
 
2013-01-24 11:02:49 AM

clkeagle: But they won't. I swear, it's like they want money - just not all of it.


They really don't make much money on OS X. It's been said repeatedly before, but Apple is a hardware company. iTunes, app stores, and OS X contribute very little to their bottom line.
 
2013-01-24 11:05:15 AM

narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold.


So? Why do I care how many licenses are available to the likes of Dell and Acer and Lenovo? Got a relevant number like how many copies are actually in the hands of end users or just inconsequential bullshiat about how many available licenses are sitting around in hardware manufacturer databases?
 
2013-01-24 11:09:36 AM

SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.


That, and I hate the aesthetics in some of these design choices these days. Side by side four sided geometric shapes. Big bold solid colors. Striking fonts.

It looks like science fiction film computer displays from the 1960's. Like I'm starring at a HAL interface, or something.
 
2013-01-24 11:12:12 AM

narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!


FTFA:Microsoft did say that the figure of 60 million could be attributed to upgrades and sales to manufacturers - so not sales of actual PCs to the end user.

I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.
 
2013-01-24 11:14:39 AM
I wonder how many buyers of new PCs, blindsided by Windows 8 and having to relearn simple tasks, have returned the PCs for replacement with Windows 7 machines.
 
rpm
2013-01-24 11:16:35 AM
consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com

Hot, unlike Windows 8 sales.
 
2013-01-24 11:16:39 AM

RDixon: I wonder how many buyers of new PCs, blindsided by Windows 8 and having to relearn simple tasks, have returned the PCs for replacement with Windows 7 machines.


I'm not sure if you can even get Win 7 machines from the big box retailers anymore.
 
2013-01-24 11:18:44 AM

Cythraul: That, and I hate the aesthetics in some of these design choices these days. Side by side four sided geometric shapes. Big bold solid colors. Striking fonts.


It makes perfect sense on a smaller device where you need that sort of distinction. It's a lot easier to get used to hitting a big tile of a certain color on a certain region of your screen than try to read the smaller text on the tile to see its name.

Not so sensible on a 19" monitor with plenty of real-estate, though. Then it just looks like a digital speak and spell.
 
2013-01-24 11:23:53 AM

AtomPeepers: Blame the victims Microsoft. Classy!

I don't mind Windows 8 once you banish the start screen and install classic shell it's fine. Why MS couldn't see that touch-screen consumer tablets vs. corporate desktops have very different needs is beyond me.



They did the reverse with their earlier mobile OS's like Windows Mobile 5 & 6. Those that were made for smartphones and PDA's had a UI that resembled a desktop UI but with touch features.
 
2013-01-24 11:24:02 AM

dbirchall: narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!

FTFA:Microsoft did say that the figure of 60 million could be attributed to upgrades and sales to manufacturers - so not sales of actual PCs to the end user.

I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.

24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.


It was $40 and I had XP.
 
2013-01-24 11:29:12 AM

netweavr: dbirchall: narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!

FTFA:Microsoft did say that the figure of 60 million could be attributed to upgrades and sales to manufacturers - so not sales of actual PCs to the end user.

I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

It was $40 and I had XP.


I thought about getting it for my wife's XP machine, but I like being married to her.
 
2013-01-24 11:29:13 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Apple is a hardware company. They don't want a bunch of Apple clones around. They tried that once, it failed miserably.


True, but that was a very different time.

MightyPez: They really don't make much money on OS X. It's been said repeatedly before, but Apple is a hardware company. iTunes, app stores, and OS X contribute very little to their bottom line.


But wouldn't offering OSX on third-party equipment these days be a good gateway for selling their more profitable items? If there's one thing Apple does well - it's marketing. They could easily convince PC buyers that getting a computer with OSX will somehow enhance their iPad/iPod/iPhone/AppleTV experiences. The goal wouldn't be to make money through the sales of those Dell/Asus/whatever PCs, but to convince people (who were going to buy a Dell/Asus/whatever no matter what OS it comes with) that they really need that iPad/iPod/AppleTV in their homes. And when that Asus OSX laptop customer needs a new desktop (or conversely, that HP OSX desktop customer wants a new laptop) - they might choose an Apple desktop/laptop based on the OSX experiences and the comparison of the build quality or features.

If they would have so little to gain from the additional OSX licensing, wouldn't that imply that they would have little to lose by trying it out?
 
2013-01-24 11:29:44 AM
Is this a bad time to mention that you can upgrade to Win8 Pro from any version of XP, Vista, or 7 for only $39.99 for the next week?

upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99
More direct link to $40 upgrade

Before you laugh, the price jumps to $199 February 1st.  That's right!  If you don't like it at $40, you'll don't like it more at $200!  Historically, $40 for a full legal copy of Windows (x) Professional is a steal. I don't like the Metro UI either, but install one of the Start Menu fixes (I use Stardock Start8 for $5) and you'll almost never deal with Metro.
 
2013-01-24 11:30:54 AM

netweavr: dbirchall: narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!

FTFA:Microsoft did say that the figure of 60 million could be attributed to upgrades and sales to manufacturers - so not sales of actual PCs to the end user.

I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

It was $40 and I had XP.


Probably a good move. There are work arounds to get it to behave like Win 7.
 
2013-01-24 11:31:47 AM

theurge14: Yesterday I was handed an HP laptop and was asked to "fix it".

Turned out to the be the first Windows 8 experience I've had.

As a Mac guy I get the sense of the idea Microsoft has with this and I like what they think they want to do, but the execution of how to get there... ugh.

It took me about 10 seconds to find Desktop, it took me another 10 seconds to discover that they've removed Control Panel and everything else useful from Desktop. 5 minutes later I found out how to turn on the "Administration Tiles" on the main Metro screen

The scrolling is phone-like, the icons are terrible, the menus are too sparse, it's just too disjointed.

I went to uninstall Norton so I could turn Windows Defender on (the renamed MSE), but I couldn't find Windows Defender anywhere. I found the Search Charm, typed in Windows Defender, first result came up, clicked it, error message telling me that something else was already the default antivirus and I needed to go disable that first in the Security Center. Of course Windows didn't offer to link me to the Security Center, I had to spend another 5 minutes figuring out how to dig that up.

It feels like everything I really need is intentionally buried behind 5 layers of searching crap, while the crap I don't need has gigantic animated tiles for quick access. It's like running MS-DOS and not being able to type "dir".


I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here. That a person who uses a totally different OS took less than ten minutes to do something on a OS he has not used ever
/Protip you can get to the control panel from the desktop
i.imgur.com
In the left corner where the Metro/Start icon pop up just right click on it
 
2013-01-24 11:35:37 AM

doczoidberg: I predict that Microsoft will double down on the stupid in this case, and REQUIRE everyone to use Metro on future versions of Windows.


Microsoft has already told people with NDAs that they are doubling down on Metro for Windows Blue. It's not that way.

'Metro only' Windows was already released as the ARM version of Windows 8, called WinRT.  That paradigm is not being propagated to Wintel anytime soon.
 
2013-01-24 11:36:18 AM
I stole this so it would be funnier if it said Windows 8 instead of 7, but the punch line still works.

i831.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-24 11:39:25 AM
I placed an order for a Lenovo Yoga 13 during Thanksgiving week and first received it after the beginning of the new year. Prior to it having Windows 8, the shipping time was under 2 weeks. Similar "long order/short supply" stories have been circling about other laptop manufacturers after they started shipping Windows 8. I would agree with MS that if I would have had a Windows 7 option shipping immediately, I would not have gone with Windows 8. However, this should no longer be the problem as most manufacturers should be meeting quantity demand before the end of the quarter. When that happens, MS will have to come up with a fresh excuse for poor sales.
 
2013-01-24 11:46:53 AM

clkeagle: But wouldn't offering OSX on third-party equipment these days be a good gateway for selling their more profitable items? If there's one thing Apple does well - it's marketing. They could easily convince PC buyers that getting a computer with OSX will somehow enhance their iPad/iPod/iPhone/AppleTV experiences. The goal wouldn't be to make money through the sales of those Dell/Asus/whatever PCs, but to convince people (who were going to buy a Dell/Asus/whatever no matter what OS it comes with) that they really need that iPad/iPod/AppleTV in their homes. And when that Asus OSX laptop customer needs a new desktop (or conversely, that HP OSX desktop customer wants a new laptop) - they might choose an Apple desktop/laptop based on the OSX experiences and the comparison of the build quality or features.


Because they would need to expand their mostly lean OS X development into a much larger department to accomodate the broader hardware base. There is no real benefit to getting more bloated to accomodate a market that may not accept them for the off chance someone will buy their hardware.

OS X is kept lean and functional because they cater to a very narrow selection of hardware. Apple has made it very clear they build computers that are more appliance than traditional desktop, and it makes them a lot of money.

Even if they were to suddenly decide to enter the OS business, they would probably need to increase licensing costs and manage end user licensing a lot more. As it stands Apple is fairly apathetic about people pirating OS X and they even allow a single purchase to be installed several times. But with a larger dev team the price of OS X wouldn't stay at $20.
 
2013-01-24 11:47:26 AM
More direct link to $40 upgrade

I don't know how that link got FUBARed - I pasted out of my Windows-8-over-RDP browser window.  Trying again without the prettiness:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/buy?ocid=CPRP_r_january13 _n a_body_1_1
 
2013-01-24 11:49:39 AM

LasersHurt: Hardware manufacturers DID come late to the game. They're pushing a TON of new convertibles and tablets this year at CES, but so long after the Win8 launch I can see where MS is peeved. Nothing they can really do about it, mind you. Deal with it.


We are dealing with it. We're avoiding Windows 8 like the plague.
 
2013-01-24 11:53:31 AM

Marcus Aurelius: LasersHurt: Hardware manufacturers DID come late to the game. They're pushing a TON of new convertibles and tablets this year at CES, but so long after the Win8 launch I can see where MS is peeved. Nothing they can really do about it, mind you. Deal with it.

We are dealing with it. We're avoiding Windows 8 like the plague.


I meant that MS has to deal with it.
 
2013-01-24 11:54:42 AM
I just purchased a Dell Optiplex for a professor here at work and it came with Windows 8. It took a little bit of work but I got it to behave pretty much like Windows 7. The only thing I can't do is get Kaspersky working with it, but that's fine and I can use Defender for now.

With a little bit of work, a few tweaks, a third party program or two and it works just fine. I understand where the not technical people would have a problem with it, but I do IT work and familiar with work arounds and tweaks.

And forty dollars for Windows 8 sounds even better than the fifty dollars I paid for Windows 7 pro.
 
2013-01-24 11:56:18 AM
As someone who has a touchscreen desktop (I got an All-In-One a while ago, before it was cool... what's that? It still isn't? Well damn.) and paid the $40 to upgrade the day it came out (fark you, don't give me that look!) I have to say that this is objectively shiattier than Windows 7 in almost every way. And I have a touch screen desktop! Look, I clearly have a history of making stupid purchases (I bought a Xoom at full price when it came out, had a virtual boy once when I was a kid, a Sega 32x, etc.) but I almost feel worse about this one. Every time I boot up I immediately click (notice I didn't say touch) the tile for the desktop then go about my business using it as a Windows 7 PC without a start button. I know there's a way to have it boot up to the desktop but I never do it hoping that one day I'll want to use the tiles and corny bullshiat. I don't. It has added nothing to my experience. Not a thing. I basically gave Mircosoft $40 to make Windows 7 more of a hassle to navigate. Also, I had to learn how to bury my porn videos again, so that's always fun. In conclusion, fark Windows 8, I hope Steve Ballmer gets cancer in his asshole.
 
2013-01-24 11:57:56 AM
Windows 8 sucks in so many ways I can't begin to tell you how little I like it on my new laptop.

/pines for XP
 
2013-01-24 12:02:31 PM

CVGScorch: With a little bit of work, a few tweaks, a third party program or two and it works just fine.


The thing is; people should not have to make a few tweaks, or add a third party program or two. The damn thing should just be user friendly from the very start. Underneath it's not a bad OS. But MS failed in the initial user experience.
 
2013-01-24 12:02:37 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.


I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.
 
2013-01-24 12:06:14 PM

pheelix: netweavr: dbirchall: narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!

FTFA:Microsoft did say that the figure of 60 million could be attributed to upgrades and sales to manufacturers - so not sales of actual PCs to the end user.

I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

It was $40 and I had XP.

I thought about getting it for my wife's XP machine, but I like being married to her.


Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: netweavr: dbirchall: narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!

FTFA:Microsoft did say that the figure of 60 million could be attributed to upgrades and sales to manufacturers - so not sales of actual PCs to the end user.

I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

It was $40 and I had XP.

Probably a good move. There are work arounds to get it to behave like Win 7.


Haven't needed to do any real tweaking yet. But it's my home box and mostly just used for Steam, Netflix, and Gmail. Dev stuff I RDP to work for anyways.
 
2013-01-24 12:06:33 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: CVGScorch: With a little bit of work, a few tweaks, a third party program or two and it works just fine.

The thing is; people should not have to make a few tweaks, or add a third party program or two. The damn thing should just be user friendly from the very start. Underneath it's not a bad OS. But MS failed in the initial user experience.


But this is entirely subjective. People have always wanted/needed to tweak the OS to get the most out of it.
 
2013-01-24 12:06:46 PM

Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.


I don't even necessarily think putting a tablet OS on a PC is an intrinsically bad idea, you just can't drop the many feature people actually liked about the PC interface. Giving me alternatives to the Start Menu is fine but I've spent years developing workflow habits around it, forcing me to relearn everything just encourages me to stick with 7 or find a more XP-styled version of Linux already. Or just say "screw it" and hop over to OS X full time.
 
2013-01-24 12:09:02 PM

MightyPez: Because they would need to expand their mostly lean OS X development into a much larger department to accomodate the broader hardware base. There is no real benefit to getting more bloated to accomodate a market that may not accept them for the off chance someone will buy their hardware.

OS X is kept lean and functional because they cater to a very narrow selection of hardware. Apple has made it very clear they build computers that are more appliance than traditional desktop, and it makes them a lot of money.

Even if they were to suddenly decide to enter the OS business, they would probably need to increase licensing costs and manage end user licensing a lot more. As it stands Apple is fairly apathetic about people pirating OS X and they even allow a single purchase to be installed several times. But with a larger dev team the price of OS X wouldn't stay at $20.


Thank you for that - now it makes a lot more sense.
 
2013-01-24 12:10:39 PM

netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.


But how is it compared to 7?
 
2013-01-24 12:14:24 PM

theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.


You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.
 
2013-01-24 12:15:25 PM

dbirchall: I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.


I had a choice...the same computer was $80 MORE with Windows 7, so I let myself be talked into 8.

/big mistake
//HUGE...
 
2013-01-24 12:15:43 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: CVGScorch: With a little bit of work, a few tweaks, a third party program or two and it works just fine.

The thing is; people should not have to make a few tweaks, or add a third party program or two. The damn thing should just be user friendly from the very start. Underneath it's not a bad OS. But MS failed in the initial user experience.


It would appear half of the users hate most OS defaults, no matter what flavor. There is nothing wrong with third party apps for those who like them for more customization options. The problem was integrating a desktop OS (which most people are using it for) with a mobile OS (which few people use) and making the mobile OS the default interface. As someone with access to the customer test feedbacks, I can't imagine how that passed user testing, especially with the lazy MS test communities that hate clicking more than they have to.
 
2013-01-24 12:23:06 PM

pheelix: netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

But how is it compared to 7?


At least for me it works fine. I don't use the metro screen for much yet, mostly just playing around with it. But besides that not much different. It's seems to be quite stable and fast. I know I'm in the minority here but I've had no real issues or problems. It does take a few days to figure out the new stuff. But most of that is just minor. Really if you have a desktop you don't need to upgrade. I did because it was $40, and i got a windows phone so i wanted to how they would interact. But given the chance I would not go back either. But like I said i guess I'm in the minority.
 
2013-01-24 12:23:51 PM

Bareefer Obonghit: As someone who has a touchscreen desktop (I got an All-In-One a while ago, before it was cool... what's that? It still isn't? Well damn.) and paid the $40 to upgrade the day it came out (fark you, don't give me that look!) I have to say that this is objectively shiattier than Windows 7 in almost every way. And I have a touch screen desktop! Look, I clearly have a history of making stupid purchases (I bought a Xoom at full price when it came out, had a virtual boy once when I was a kid, a Sega 32x, etc.) but I almost feel worse about this one. Every time I boot up I immediately click (notice I didn't say touch) the tile for the desktop then go about my business using it as a Windows 7 PC without a start button. I know there's a way to have it boot up to the desktop but I never do it hoping that one day I'll want to use the tiles and corny bullshiat. I don't. It has added nothing to my experience. Not a thing. I basically gave Mircosoft $40 to make Windows 7 more of a hassle to navigate. Also, I had to learn how to bury my porn videos again, so that's always fun. In conclusion, fark Windows 8, I hope Steve Ballmer gets cancer in his asshole.


Classic Shell is a good patch for Windows 8 if using it on a desktop, you can choose how far it goes (start button, begin in desktop, etc.) Only thing it doesn't fix is documents that are tied to Modern UI apps (like say PDF by default), and you still have to ensure you do things like install Skype for Desktop instead of the default Modern UI App, etc.
 
2013-01-24 12:29:14 PM

pheelix: netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

But how is it compared to 7?


About the same. I figured out the start menu vs. metro thing pretty quick. Other than that, I've heard it's faster but I have no direct experience using the same machine.
 
2013-01-24 12:29:21 PM

Stone Meadow: dbirchall: I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

I had a choice...the same computer was $80 MORE with Windows 7, so I let myself be talked into 8.

/big mistake
//HUGE...


If it helps, Microsoft has an offer for downgrading to Windows 7
 
2013-01-24 12:30:50 PM
The full screen mode is ridiculous on the desktop. I cannot believe they did no usability testing, or hell, any testing at all.

Metro is a crap experience, especially when just want to stay in the goddammed desktop mode. Stop popping me out of it and force feeding metro to me.
 
2013-01-24 12:32:10 PM

pheelix: netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

But how is it compared to 7?


Boots faster
runs faster
you could refresh it if it feel slow
super easy reinstall
Drivers. It picked up a wifi card meant for a Samsung HDTV(WIS12ABGNX) when Windows 7 couldn't even with a online search
 
2013-01-24 12:35:10 PM

jbtilley: It's ok but I do have a few WTF nits:

1) So you can adjust the color of windows borders... but you can't adjust the color of window border text. Want a dark color? Well you won't be able to read the black text in the window border.
2) Why can't I natively create tiles for the start screen? Seriously. Just create a new square, pick an image, and choose a program from a list. Nope, gotta be one of a few apps and even then you can't customize the tile. You have to use a 3rd party program to help you do this. It's just shortcuts on a screen. Seriously, Packard Bell used something similar back in the 386 days and they gave you actual customizations to work with.

And in classic MS form they don't let you pick the background you want for something without a registry hack, this time it's the start screen. Why is dropping a user selected image into the background such a hard thing. Gotta be one of 8 presets. I guess they do that to preserve resources on a cellphone, but I'm using a desktop. They really should have made a "separate but equal" OS for both a desktop and a cellphone.

Just a few nits that make me scratch my head. The two I mentioned above were literally the first two things I tried after moving to Windows 8. How did that get past any usability test... or was all testing performed on phones?


Eh, they didn't let you change the background of the start menu without editing a dll in xp, not sure about vista/7. A registry key is a step up but yeah, seems like something people would want.

You can create tiles for the start screen. If you want them to be live tiles and do things, then you'll need to actually make an app. But if you just want a shortcut, then just search for whatever program you want and right click it and select pin-to-start. The list of tiles they give you is just the contents of the old start menu. If you right click a tile and select "open file location" it'll bring up the shortcut's location (probably C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs). You can edit the shortcut to do whatever you want and have whatever icon you want and the tile will do that.
 
2013-01-24 12:35:41 PM
I love these threads. daily. honest.
I'll regurgitate my experience as well, simply to keep up with everyone else.

Asus vivo tab. Touchscreen with free keyboard dock. Verdict :Very good. Even if it is RT, for work I have access to everything I need on a tablet that when docked gives me about 15 hours of battery life.
Only things I really miss are a full outlook version and Chrome.

Toshiba laptop i7 with ssd. purchased the upgrade. Verdict : good. Boots like lightning. with admin tiles turned on and adding my most used app to the tiles I'm good to go. Yes, there was a slight learning curve to not having a start menu. That lasted maybe a day.

As mentioned in another thread, both kids (14 and 10) picked up using the OS for what they need/want to do on their laptops very quickly. Showed them easy access to desktop, as well as hover left for open apps, hover right for "options", plus click and drag to close.

Hell, if you absolutely hate it, don't buy it. But it didn't turn you into a newt from which you got better. Yes it has a wart, but you put the fake nose on it.
 
2013-01-24 12:40:32 PM

pkellmey: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: CVGScorch: With a little bit of work, a few tweaks, a third party program or two and it works just fine.

The thing is; people should not have to make a few tweaks, or add a third party program or two. The damn thing should just be user friendly from the very start. Underneath it's not a bad OS. But MS failed in the initial user experience.

It would appear half of the users hate most OS defaults, no matter what flavor. There is nothing wrong with third party apps for those who like them for more customization options. The problem was integrating a desktop OS (which most people are using it for) with a mobile OS (which few people use) and making the mobile OS the default interface. As someone with access to the customer test feedbacks, I can't imagine how that passed user testing, especially with the lazy MS test communities that hate clicking more than they have to.


It's worse. the consumer preview had a registry hack to boot into desktop. By the release preview Redmond had fixed that "glitch".

Just because you can make it look like Windows 7 doesn't mean that it's okay. Can you boot into desktop? No?
 
2013-01-24 12:43:58 PM

MightyPez: Stone Meadow: dbirchall: I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

I had a choice...the same computer was $80 MORE with Windows 7, so I let myself be talked into 8.

/big mistake
//HUGE...

If it helps, Microsoft has an offer for downgrading to Windows 7


Good stuff...thanks!
 
2013-01-24 12:44:09 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: Yesterday I was handed an HP laptop and was asked to "fix it".

Turned out to the be the first Windows 8 experience I've had.

As a Mac guy I get the sense of the idea Microsoft has with this and I like what they think they want to do, but the execution of how to get there... ugh.

It took me about 10 seconds to find Desktop, it took me another 10 seconds to discover that they've removed Control Panel and everything else useful from Desktop. 5 minutes later I found out how to turn on the "Administration Tiles" on the main Metro screen

The scrolling is phone-like, the icons are terrible, the menus are too sparse, it's just too disjointed.

I went to uninstall Norton so I could turn Windows Defender on (the renamed MSE), but I couldn't find Windows Defender anywhere. I found the Search Charm, typed in Windows Defender, first result came up, clicked it, error message telling me that something else was already the default antivirus and I needed to go disable that first in the Security Center. Of course Windows didn't offer to link me to the Security Center, I had to spend another 5 minutes figuring out how to dig that up.

It feels like everything I really need is intentionally buried behind 5 layers of searching crap, while the crap I don't need has gigantic animated tiles for quick access. It's like running MS-DOS and not being able to type "dir".

I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here. That a person who uses a totally different OS took less than ten minutes to do something on a OS he has not used ever
/Protip you can get to the control panel from the desktop
[i.imgur.com image 850x637]
In the left corner where the Metro/Start icon pop up just right click on it


Or select settings from the charms bar on the right and click control panel from there when in the desktop. It makes sense that it would be there. In general, all app settings are supposed to be in the settings section of the charms bar, though it's a bit of a crap shoot whether the app will use that or have some other configuration menu in app.

There's also the slightly less obvious "Change PC Settings" thing at the bottom of the charms bar that takes you to the *other* control panel. That's not at all confusing. :p
 
2013-01-24 12:45:48 PM
So, the piles of Windows 8 tablets, desktops, etc. that I see gathering dust in stores are there because manufacturers can't make them fast enough for the piles to be bigger?

Exec 1: People aren't buying very many of our widgets! They're just sitting on the shelves in stores!
Exec 2: Make more of them! Clearly it's a supply issue!
Exec 1: Good ide-wait, what?
 
2013-01-24 12:47:15 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.

You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.


I attribute that to my good looks, good taste, solid financial stability and overall enviable existence.

Now excuse me while I strut around in a confident manner.
 
2013-01-24 12:48:07 PM

IanMoone: Just because you can make it look like Windows 7 doesn't mean that it's okay. Can you boot into desktop? No?


It's pure agony for me to click on the classic desktop after I reboot my PC every few months too. I feel your pain.
 
2013-01-24 12:50:19 PM
Wow, weird.

See, I never use the Start Menu other than the Search textbox and some pinned apps (Excel, Word). I have so much stuff on my machine, that lame little menu is worthless.

So I didn't mind the BIG TILES they gave in Windows 8. Also you search just by typing, which is very nice for me.
 
2013-01-24 12:53:53 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.

You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.


But seriously, we Mac users are not foreigners from another planet who have never seen Windows before. At work I spend my time on a Windows 7 workstation. I support Windows XP. At home I was a Windows XP before my Mac, W2K before that, NT 4 Workstation before that, OS/2 and MS-DOS all the way back to the VIC-20s and C64s of my childhood. I'm not your typical Windows 8 user. I can find things eventually on a computer screen.

My concern is the rest of the folks out there. The reason the HP laptop was given to me to "fix" was to uninstall a program. The person who owns the laptop is not a stupid person, just not an IT guy like me. It's just Windows 8 is so difficult for them that they can't uninstall a program and had to hand the laptop to me. That was my point.
 
2013-01-24 12:58:28 PM
For those saying you can ignore Metro, that may be true for now but Microsoft is going to push developers to use Metro, which can't share a screen with classic apps (bad for multiple monitor folks and productivity)

And of course the solution to poor sales is RAISING THE PRICE.
/unlikely tag
 
2013-01-24 01:01:04 PM

theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.

You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.

But seriously, we Mac users are not foreigners from another planet who have never seen Windows before. At work I spend my time on a Windows 7 workstation. I support Windows XP. At home I was a Windows XP before my Mac, W2K before that, NT 4 Workstation before that, OS/2 and MS-DOS all the way back to the VIC-20s and C64s of my childhood. I'm not your typical Windows 8 user. I can find things eventually on a computer screen.

My concern is the rest of the folks out there. The reason the HP laptop was given to me to "fix" was to uninstall a program. The person who owns the laptop is not a stupid person, just not an IT guy like me. It's just Windows 8 is so difficult for them that they can't uninstall a program and had to hand the laptop to me. That was my point.


Right click on tile in start screen, select "uninstall". If it's an app, it uninstalls. If it's an application, it takes you to the add/remove programs dialog.
 
2013-01-24 01:01:49 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: pheelix: netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

But how is it compared to 7?

Boots faster
runs faster
you could refresh it if it feel slow
super easy reinstall
Drivers. It picked up a wifi card meant for a Samsung HDTV(WIS12ABGNX) when Windows 7 couldn't even with a online search


That's the sad part. Under the hood, it appears to be much improved. But the user interface is such a clusterfark nobody can see that.
 
2013-01-24 01:02:54 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with Windows 8 if I could have the Start screen stay up permanently on one of my screens with the live tiles displaying info and then the desktop on my second screen. Instead, every time I click on the desktop, the start screen disappears. Retarded.
 
2013-01-24 01:03:43 PM

seanpg71: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.

You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.

But seriously, we Mac users are not foreigners from another planet who have never seen Windows before. At work I spend my time on a Windows 7 workstation. I support Windows XP. At home I was a Windows XP before my Mac, W2K before that, NT 4 Workstation before that, OS/2 and MS-DOS all the way back to the VIC-20s and C64s of my childhood. I'm not your typical Windows 8 user. I can find things eventually on a computer screen.

My concern is the rest of the folks out there. The reason the HP laptop was given to me to "fix" was to uninstall a program. The person who owns the laptop is not a stupid person, just not an IT guy like me. It's just Windows 8 is so difficult for them that they can't uninstall a program and had to hand the laptop to me. That was my point.

Right click on tile in start screen, select "uninstall". If it's an app, it uninstalls. If it's an application, it takes you to the add/remove programs dialog.


There was no tile for Norton. But I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
 
2013-01-24 01:03:49 PM

Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.


SHUT UP YOU PEON! RICH PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR IN ALL THINGS AND WILL MAKE ALL OF YOUR DECISIONS!
 
2013-01-24 01:06:38 PM

Bareefer Obonghit: As someone who has a touchscreen desktop (I got an All-In-One a while ago, before it was cool... what's that? It still isn't? Well damn.) and paid the $40 to upgrade the day it came out (fark you, don't give me that look!) I have to say that this is objectively shiattier than Windows 7 in almost every way. And I have a touch screen desktop! Look, I clearly have a history of making stupid purchases (I bought a Xoom at full price when it came out, had a virtual boy once when I was a kid, a Sega 32x, etc.) but I almost feel worse about this one. Every time I boot up I immediately click (notice I didn't say touch) the tile for the desktop then go about my business using it as a Windows 7 PC without a start button. I know there's a way to have it boot up to the desktop but I never do it hoping that one day I'll want to use the tiles and corny bullshiat. I don't. It has added nothing to my experience. Not a thing. I basically gave Mircosoft $40 to make Windows 7 more of a hassle to navigate. Also, I had to learn how to bury my porn videos again, so that's always fun. In conclusion, fark Windows 8, I hope Steve Ballmer gets cancer in his asshole.


GREEEEEAT.

So, creating hidden folders deep in the hard drive is more difficult, too?
 
2013-01-24 01:21:32 PM

Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.


What baffles me is that their testers told them this over and over, it's not like it took them by surprise.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-01-24 01:27:41 PM

pyrotek85: What baffles me is that their testers told them this over and over, it's not like it took them by surprise.


MS has never been about user choice.  They're not as bad as Apple in that regard, but they very much want you to live in a MS-dominated PC/tablet/mobile world.  They want to make the iPhone and iPad so bad they can taste it.  But Ballmer is a high-functioning moron who primarily uses market share and OEM deals to push through dumb ideas years after others have already shipped them. They really, really want you to get used to that mobile UI -- whether it's a good idea or not.

It's not baffling in the slightest.
 
2013-01-24 01:31:16 PM

wee: pyrotek85: What baffles me is that their testers told them this over and over, it's not like it took them by surprise.

MS has never been about user choice.  They're not as bad as Apple in that regard, but they very much want you to live in a MS-dominated PC/tablet/mobile world.  They want to make the iPhone and iPad so bad they can taste it.  But Ballmer is a high-functioning moron who primarily uses market share and OEM deals to push through dumb ideas years after others have already shipped them. They really, really want you to get used to that mobile UI -- whether it's a good idea or not.

It's not baffling in the slightest.


I guess I just expected them to not be so stubborn when it's their money and brand at stake.
 
2013-01-24 01:31:18 PM
Another Windows 8 biatching thread?

Well, why not? If normal people can be unwilling to try anything different with computers, why can't the IT crowd?

/the interface is fine
//don't hope for it to change with Windows 9
///you'll get over it
 
2013-01-24 01:33:06 PM

xria: Bareefer Obonghit:

Classic Shell is a good patch for Windows 8 if using it on a desktop, you can choose how far it goes (start button, begin in desktop, etc.) Only thing it doesn't fix is documents that are tied to Modern UI apps (like say PDF by default), and you still have to ensure you do things like install Skype for Desktop instead of the default Modern UI App, etc.


I appreciate what you're saying, and I'm aware of this stuff (still helpful for you to post it for anyone interested), but my problem is more that I need to do that just to essentially make my computer a Windows 7 computer again, you know? I don't want to have to make my computer Windows 7. I was all for the idea of a shiny new Windows OS that if I put some time into getting used to would offer actual benefits over 7, but it is such coont slime that the best option is to patch it to act like Windows 7. That's garbage.

doczoidberg: Bareefer Obonghit:

GREEEEEAT.

So, creating hidden folders deep in the hard drive is more difficult, too?


It's not really that, it's that it automatically pulls all your video files into one of the tiles without prompting you where to look when you first install it so when you boot up the 'live tile' labeled Video will have screenshots of Mexican Amputee Polio Anal Party 7 on it until you go and change where the videos are getting pulled from or disable the slideshow. I mean, I may have gone about this in the wrong way since 8 was new to me (probably not hard to disable), and it may not seem like that much to deal with, but it's just annoying as fark like everything else I've encountered on this venereal runoff of an OS.
 
2013-01-24 01:33:36 PM

Gig103: For those saying you can ignore Metro, that may be true for now


It's not even true at all, it's just excuse-making from White Knights who are lying about how the OS works.

Metro start screen replaced the start menu, there's just no way around that fact that doesn't involve third-party modifications. Unless you learn every possible keyboard shortcut, put shortcuts to everything you'll ever use on the desktop (or launch it from Run) and re-enable quicklaunch I fail to see how you can possibly go about using Windows 8 while completely ignoring Metro. Even doing all that, you'd still have to go through it at least once every time the computer restarts.

You can greatly reduce the affliction the start screen places on you if you take a lot of extra steps to set up your computer, but you can never get rid of it altogether.
 
2013-01-24 01:34:38 PM

Marine1: Another Windows 8 biatching thread?

Well, why not? If normal people can be unwilling to try anything different with computers, why can't the IT crowd?

/the interface is fine
//don't hope for it to change with Windows 9
///you'll get over it


I'll take bash over Windows 8 Metro any day. Nothing like a good command line to really get things done.
 
2013-01-24 01:35:04 PM

MightyPez: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

Basically this. I've tried it in VMs, I tried it as my primary desktop, and the "modern interface" just ends up getting in the way most of the time. As it has been said repeatedly, for touch screens it's great. Hell, even a decent multitouch trackpad it's alright. But for a kb/mouse driven UI it's irritating at best.



that

theurge14: Control Panel and everything else useful from Desktop


it is there. just hidden. open explorer and type control panel into the location bar.

AtomPeepers: Why MS couldn't see that touch-screen consumer tablets vs. corporate desktops have very different needs is beyond me.


Sinofsky.


/caveat: i work for MS on server.
 
2013-01-24 01:38:54 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Gig103: For those saying you can ignore Metro, that may be true for now

It's not even true at all, it's just excuse-making from White Knights who are lying about how the OS works.

Metro start screen replaced the start menu, there's just no way around that fact that doesn't involve third-party modifications. Unless you learn every possible keyboard shortcut, put shortcuts to everything you'll ever use on the desktop (or launch it from Run) and re-enable quicklaunch I fail to see how you can possibly go about using Windows 8 while completely ignoring Metro. Even doing all that, you'd still have to go through it at least once every time the computer restarts.

You can greatly reduce the affliction the start screen places on you if you take a lot of extra steps to set up your computer, but you can never get rid of it altogether.


Is it really that hard to use?

I mean, c'mon. I'm not the brightest guy here by a long shot and even I figured Metro out and adapted to it. Like you guys, I incessantly biatched about it when it was announced. Now I use it just like I did Windows 7, Vista, and XP. No third-party add ons, because there's no real point. You go to the lower-left corner, you click, and ta-da, there are programs. Want a specific one? Either type it in or hit "all applications" to pick it out. It's the start menu stretched across the screen. Nothing else... well, with active display of information on the icons, but still.

It's not hard, and the desktop is still there. I've used it on desktops, laptops, and tablets. I do programming in IDEs and watch Netflix in its application.
 
2013-01-24 01:43:17 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.

I don't even necessarily think putting a tablet OS on a PC is an intrinsically bad idea, you just can't drop the many feature people actually liked about the PC interface. Giving me alternatives to the Start Menu is fine but I've spent years developing workflow habits around it, forcing me to relearn everything just encourages me to stick with 7 or find a more XP-styled version of Linux already. Or just say "screw it" and hop over to OS X full time.


All of this.
 
2013-01-24 01:43:25 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Marine1: Another Windows 8 biatching thread?

Well, why not? If normal people can be unwilling to try anything different with computers, why can't the IT crowd?

/the interface is fine
//don't hope for it to change with Windows 9
///you'll get over it

I'll take bash over Windows 8 Metro any day. Nothing like a good command line to really get things done.


Then download Cygwin and use cygdrive.
 
2013-01-24 01:47:13 PM
One of the criteria for buying a new laptop for myself was nothing that came with Windows 8 Pre-Installed.

I bought a Alienware M18x for gaming on the road and for the fact it does not have Windows 8 but Windows 7 ultimate.
 
2013-01-24 01:49:06 PM
I bought Windows 8 because I was on a pirate copy of 7. It's not awesome or anything, but it's better under the hood if you can overlook the interface deficiencies.

Also I got it for $15, so there's that.
 
2013-01-24 01:54:06 PM

Marine1: Is it really that hard to use?


It's not about being harder to use, it's about being no better at the very best.

And, yes, losing that nice, compact and effective list of well-ordered items with the press of a key is extremely annoying.

The single biggest beef I have with it is that there was no benefit to changing anything they changed and now you basically have to use two different operating systems built for two entirely different purposes at the same time.

If you're going to try and get me to buy an upgrade to something, I'd expect the sales pitch to be better than "you'll get used to it".
 
2013-01-24 01:59:55 PM

Marine1: Is it really that hard to use?

I mean, c'mon. I'm not the brightest guy here by a long shot and even I figured Metro out and adapted to it.


You have to remember though that fark had a near apocalyptic meltdown over the 'smart' and 'Funny' buttons and every other site redesign, no matter how minor, since the beginning of fark. The majority of us are repulsed by the mere thought of a stranger clipping their fingernails in their cubical. The smell of microwaved food of any nationality is sure to offend some portion of farkers if they happen to be working in the same building. These people do no handle adversity very well.
 
2013-01-24 02:08:43 PM

Egoy3k: Marine1: Is it really that hard to use?

I mean, c'mon. I'm not the brightest guy here by a long shot and even I figured Metro out and adapted to it.

You have to remember though that fark had a near apocalyptic meltdown over the 'smart' and 'Funny' buttons and every other site redesign, no matter how minor, since the beginning of fark. The majority of us are repulsed by the mere thought of a stranger clipping their fingernails in their cubical. The smell of microwaved food of any nationality is sure to offend some portion of farkers if they happen to be working in the same building. These people do no handle adversity very well.


And sometimes change, just for the sake of change, is not a good thing.
 
2013-01-24 02:12:39 PM
After using Win8 for about a month (came with new, non-touchscreen laptop)

+charms bar is actually pretty useful as the bar itself lays things out in a mostly logical manner. It's a good shortcut menu.
+boot times and general performance are quite better than even 7
+no issues gaming (memory leaks seem to be cleaned up much better if I have to force-kill a program)
+program switching seems to be quicker, but that might be from the better machine

-Metro is still somewhat annoying but the most I ever do with it is snap messenger or the music player into a sidebar (when I'm not using iTunes)
-no start button on desktop has confused coworkers/friends using my machine (honestly, there should be an option to at least add a "metro" button there)

Basically it's an okay upgrade if you're on XP or Vista, but if you have Win7 it's not really necessary at all. It does have some UI issues that I hope Microsoft is smart enough to work on with SP1.
 
2013-01-24 02:25:20 PM

mokinokaro: After using Win8 for about a month (came with new, non-touchscreen laptop)

+charms bar is actually pretty useful as the bar itself lays things out in a mostly logical manner. It's a good shortcut menu.
+boot times and general performance are quite better than even 7
+no issues gaming (memory leaks seem to be cleaned up much better if I have to force-kill a program)
+program switching seems to be quicker, but that might be from the better machine

-Metro is still somewhat annoying but the most I ever do with it is snap messenger or the music player into a sidebar (when I'm not using iTunes)
-no start button on desktop has confused coworkers/friends using my machine (honestly, there should be an option to at least add a "metro" button there)

Basically it's an okay upgrade if you're on XP or Vista, but if you have Win7 it's not really necessary at all. It does have some UI issues that I hope Microsoft is smart enough to work on with SP1.


In general, I agree with your assessment other than I hate the charms bar because not all the programs use it the same way or even consistently for preferences/settings. Also, my boot time is crazy fast on my laptop, which I consider a big win especially for laptop users.
 
2013-01-24 02:31:24 PM

xria: I think the idea is to try and force all new apps to be Modern UI so the same app works on Windows, Tablet, Mobile without having to build different versions of an app for each one, whereas if they made it a feature people would mostly keep making desktop apps, which would mean the tablet/mobile app "ecosystem" wouldn't build as fast.


This is small part of the picture, but to my mind not the complete picture. The real reason is that they see how much money apple is making in their walled garden, and want a piece of the action - that is, getting a cut of every app sold for the platform. So, while having a common platform across devices could be a nice side benefit, I highly doubt it is the real reason for forcing the "Modern UI" on everybody. The real reason would thus be the walled garden. Why else would they hamstring the old UI that everybody is comfortable and happy with? They think their market position is strong enough to force everybody into a new paradigm to their own benefit.
 
2013-01-24 03:11:32 PM
1) Microsoft releases Surface to boost Win8.
2) Other hardware manufacturers: WTF, Microsoft?
3) Win8 slow to take off.
4) Damn you, Ballmer!
5) Other hardware manufacturers don't release enough compelling Win8 hardware.
6) Continued Win8 slump.
7) ???
8) Profit?

/ installed Win8 on my desktop in 10/2012.
// took me about 15-20 minutes to figure it out.
/// doesn't bother or hinder me at all.
//// I get the whole one-os-for-all-form-factors thing.
// M$ is HORRIBLE at marketing, and has too bad a rep to not work on that.
 
2013-01-24 03:14:01 PM

Unscratchable_Itch: 1) Microsoft releases Surface to boost Win8.
2) Other hardware manufacturers: WTF, Microsoft?
3) Win8 slow to take off.
4) Damn you, Ballmer!
5) Other hardware manufacturers don't release enough compelling Win8 hardware.
6) Continued Win8 slump.
7) ???
8) Profit?

/ installed Win8 on my desktop in 10/2012.
// took me about 15-20 minutes to figure it out.
/// doesn't bother or hinder me at all.
//// I get the whole one-os-for-all-form-factors thing.
// M$ is HORRIBLE at marketing, and has too bad a rep to not work on that.


Forgot 6.5) Microsoft: WTF, guys?
 
2013-01-24 03:15:03 PM

Trayal: xria: I think the idea is to try and force all new apps to be Modern UI so the same app works on Windows, Tablet, Mobile without having to build different versions of an app for each one, whereas if they made it a feature people would mostly keep making desktop apps, which would mean the tablet/mobile app "ecosystem" wouldn't build as fast.

This is small part of the picture, but to my mind not the complete picture. The real reason is that they see how much money apple is making in their walled garden, and want a piece of the action - that is, getting a cut of every app sold for the platform. So, while having a common platform across devices could be a nice side benefit, I highly doubt it is the real reason for forcing the "Modern UI" on everybody. The real reason would thus be the walled garden. Why else would they hamstring the old UI that everybody is comfortable and happy with? They think their market position is strong enough to force everybody into a new paradigm to their own benefit.


I suppose that makes sense but "walled garden" doesn't really apply to the desktop, on either Windows or OS X.

Oh but I can already hear the "yet!".
 
2013-01-24 03:22:54 PM

syrynxx: Is this a bad time to mention that you can upgrade to Win8 Pro from any version of XP, Vista, or 7 for only $39.99 for the next week?

upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99
More direct link to $40 upgrade

Before you laugh, the price jumps to $199 February 1st.  That's right!  If you don't like it at $40, you'll don't like it more at $200!  Historically, $40 for a full legal copy of Windows (x) Professional is a steal. I don't like the Metro UI either, but install one of the Start Menu fixes (I use Stardock Start8 for $5) and you'll almost never deal with Metro.


or just not install it and save myself 40 bucks + still have an exceptionally functional OS in 7..
 
2013-01-24 03:26:31 PM
Bottom line is that almost nobody actually likes Metro, and Metro is where most of the hate is coming from.

You'd THINK Microsoft would take a few clues from that when developing the next iteration of Windows.

...You'd THINK.
 
2013-01-24 03:34:48 PM

doczoidberg: Bottom line is that almost nobody actually likes Metro, and Metro is where most of the hate is coming from.

You'd THINK Microsoft would take a few clues from that when developing the next iteration of Windows.

...You'd THINK.



The most ringing endorsement of Windows 8 I see in all these threads is 'it's not the bad'.

Microsoft should use that in their next ad campaign.

Windows 8. It's not that bad.
 
2013-01-24 03:54:16 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: doczoidberg: Bottom line is that almost nobody actually likes Metro, and Metro is where most of the hate is coming from.

You'd THINK Microsoft would take a few clues from that when developing the next iteration of Windows.

...You'd THINK.


The most ringing endorsement of Windows 8 I see in all these threads is 'it's not the bad'.

Microsoft should use that in their next ad campaign.

Windows 8. It's not that bad.™


I think its very good on a tablet. I think its good on a laptop with the right specs.
 
2013-01-24 04:00:26 PM

TV's Vinnie: Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.

SHUT UP YOU PEON! RICH PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR IN ALL THINGS AND WILL MAKE ALL OF YOUR DECISIONS!


And that's why we have President Romney, right? ;)

/jpa
 
2013-01-24 04:01:28 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Egoy3k: Marine1: Is it really that hard to use?

I mean, c'mon. I'm not the brightest guy here by a long shot and even I figured Metro out and adapted to it.

You have to remember though that fark had a near apocalyptic meltdown over the 'smart' and 'Funny' buttons and every other site redesign, no matter how minor, since the beginning of fark. The majority of us are repulsed by the mere thought of a stranger clipping their fingernails in their cubical. The smell of microwaved food of any nationality is sure to offend some portion of farkers if they happen to be working in the same building. These people do no handle adversity very well.

And sometimes change, just for the sake of change, is not a good thing.


They had to find a way to put their main product on big screens, desktops, laptops, and tablets. It wasn't just for the sake of change. Microsoft's bread and butter (desktop computers) is shrinking. They're expanding their product to new markets... if they don't, they lose money. Me? After trying it on all of them... it's pretty good. Even better... it forced OEMs to be inventive with their designs for the first time in 20 years.
 
2013-01-24 04:30:06 PM

RDixon: I wonder how many buyers of new PCs, blindsided by Windows 8 and having to relearn simple tasks, have returned the PCs for replacement with Windows 7 machines.


One of the vendors of high end gaming rigs at CES said that they offer their gaming rigs with either Windows 7 or 8 and that half of those who pick Windows 8 want to return it and get Windows 7.
 
2013-01-24 04:35:19 PM

pheelix: netweavr: dbirchall: narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!

FTFA:Microsoft did say that the figure of 60 million could be attributed to upgrades and sales to manufacturers - so not sales of actual PCs to the end user.

I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

It was $40 and I had XP.

I thought about getting it for my wife's XP machine, but I like being married to her.



I went from XP to 8 with the upgrade offer and love it, with Classic Shell. It's far faster, smother and has lots of new features like automatic backup.

With Classic Shell it is eas easy to use as XP or 7 but faster.
 
2013-01-24 04:48:04 PM
 
2013-01-24 04:55:01 PM
 
2013-01-24 04:56:30 PM

theurge14: Yesterday I was handed an HP laptop and was asked to "fix it".

Turned out to the be the first Windows 8 experience I've had.

As a Mac guy I get the sense of the idea Microsoft has with this and I like what they think they want to do, but the execution of how to get there... ugh.

It took me about 10 seconds to find Desktop, it took me another 10 seconds to discover that they've removed Control Panel and everything else useful from Desktop. 5 minutes later I found out how to turn on the "Administration Tiles" on the main Metro screen

The scrolling is phone-like, the icons are terrible, the menus are too sparse, it's just too disjointed.

I went to uninstall Norton so I could turn Windows Defender on (the renamed MSE), but I couldn't find Windows Defender anywhere. I found the Search Charm, typed in Windows Defender, first result came up, clicked it, error message telling me that something else was already the default antivirus and I needed to go disable that first in the Security Center. Of course Windows didn't offer to link me to the Security Center, I had to spend another 5 minutes figuring out how to dig that up.

It feels like everything I really need is intentionally buried behind 5 layers of searching crap, while the crap I don't need has gigantic animated tiles for quick access. It's like running MS-DOS and not being able to type "dir".


Why are they paying you to fix people's computers? You clearly don't know shiat.
 
2013-01-24 05:01:49 PM

wedun: theurge14: Yesterday I was handed an HP laptop and was asked to "fix it".

Turned out to the be the first Windows 8 experience I've had.

As a Mac guy I get the sense of the idea Microsoft has with this and I like what they think they want to do, but the execution of how to get there... ugh.

It took me about 10 seconds to find Desktop, it took me another 10 seconds to discover that they've removed Control Panel and everything else useful from Desktop. 5 minutes later I found out how to turn on the "Administration Tiles" on the main Metro screen

The scrolling is phone-like, the icons are terrible, the menus are too sparse, it's just too disjointed.

I went to uninstall Norton so I could turn Windows Defender on (the renamed MSE), but I couldn't find Windows Defender anywhere. I found the Search Charm, typed in Windows Defender, first result came up, clicked it, error message telling me that something else was already the default antivirus and I needed to go disable that first in the Security Center. Of course Windows didn't offer to link me to the Security Center, I had to spend another 5 minutes figuring out how to dig that up.

It feels like everything I really need is intentionally buried behind 5 layers of searching crap, while the crap I don't need has gigantic animated tiles for quick access. It's like running MS-DOS and not being able to type "dir".

Why are they paying you to fix people's computers? You clearly don't know shiat.


Clearly.
 
2013-01-24 05:29:39 PM

BullBearMS: RDixon: I wonder how many buyers of new PCs, blindsided by Windows 8 and having to relearn simple tasks, have returned the PCs for replacement with Windows 7 machines.

One of the vendors of high end gaming rigs at CES said that they offer their gaming rigs with either Windows 7 or 8 and that half of those who pick Windows 8 want to return it and get Windows 7.


People complained when Windows 95 came out.
People complained when Windows NT came out.
People complained when Windows 2000 came out.
People complained when Windows XP came out.
People complained when Windows 7 came out.

So see, even if they release truly good OSs, people still complain. I can't believe the number of goofs that still run XP.
 
2013-01-24 05:35:54 PM

wedun: theurge14: Yesterday I was handed an HP laptop and was asked to "fix it".

Turned out to the be the first Windows 8 experience I've had.

As a Mac guy I get the sense of the idea Microsoft has with this and I like what they think they want to do, but the execution of how to get there... ugh.

It took me about 10 seconds to find Desktop, it took me another 10 seconds to discover that they've removed Control Panel and everything else useful from Desktop. 5 minutes later I found out how to turn on the "Administration Tiles" on the main Metro screen

The scrolling is phone-like, the icons are terrible, the menus are too sparse, it's just too disjointed.

I went to uninstall Norton so I could turn Windows Defender on (the renamed MSE), but I couldn't find Windows Defender anywhere. I found the Search Charm, typed in Windows Defender, first result came up, clicked it, error message telling me that something else was already the default antivirus and I needed to go disable that first in the Security Center. Of course Windows didn't offer to link me to the Security Center, I had to spend another 5 minutes figuring out how to dig that up.

It feels like everything I really need is intentionally buried behind 5 layers of searching crap, while the crap I don't need has gigantic animated tiles for quick access. It's like running MS-DOS and not being able to type "dir".

Why are they paying you to fix people's computers? You clearly don't know shiat.


theurge14 knows more than these so called powerusers at the top of this thread.
/I have a friend who knows shiat about computers, I built him a W8 HTPC and told him jack shiat how to use it , two weeks later he got a another copy for his laptop
//Wait I did tell him how to get WMC and use a HDMI cord instead of VGA
 
2013-01-24 05:46:37 PM

LasersHurt: Hardware manufacturers DID come late to the game. They're pushing a TON of new convertibles and tablets this year at CES, but so long after the Win8 launch I can see where MS is peeved. Nothing they can really do about it, mind you. Deal with it.


If Microsoft has anyone to blame it's itself when they gave everyone else the middle finger and brought out the surface tablet, I don't think hardware manufacturers were in that much of a hurry to help out a company that is now their prime rival.

As for Windows 8, it's biggest problem is that it is that the Metro UI is counterproductive, it's much easier now to use the keyboard (Press start, type the first few letters of the program you want, press enter) to get to your programs instead of using the touchscreen or the mouse, If they made the metro ui an option instead of the standard, and didn't tick off the hardware folks, Microsoft probably wouldn't be in this jam.
 
2013-01-24 05:50:18 PM
Microsoft basically considers desktop applications to be obsolete, and considers Metro applications as the way to make applications going forward. The problem is that the Metro API is extremely limited. You can't make many of the applications people like using with the restrictions of the Metro interface.
 
2013-01-24 05:50:43 PM

Shazam999: People complained when Windows 7 came out.


Who did?

Windows 7 was an unreserved success. No-one complained about Windows 7. It was faster than Vista, the UI was improved and it added a bit to stability, too.

I know 3 people running Windows8 and each of them is using Start8. They are getting the stability and speed of Windows 8, but without the crappy UI. One is a well-known developer/trainer and she tried using Metro for a couple of weeks and gave up, had to get Start8. The UI might make sense on a tablet, but it doesn't on a PC.
 
2013-01-24 05:53:35 PM

farkeruk: Shazam999: People complained when Windows 7 came out.

Who did?

Windows 7 was an unreserved success. No-one complained about Windows 7. It was faster than Vista, the UI was improved and it added a bit to stability, too.


Come on. Go type "windows 7 sucks" into Google and see what happens.
 
2013-01-24 05:59:49 PM

mikemil828: LasersHurt: Hardware manufacturers DID come late to the game. They're pushing a TON of new convertibles and tablets this year at CES, but so long after the Win8 launch I can see where MS is peeved. Nothing they can really do about it, mind you. Deal with it.

If Microsoft has anyone to blame it's itself when they gave everyone else the middle finger and brought out the surface tablet, I don't think hardware manufacturers were in that much of a hurry to help out a company that is now their prime rival.

As for Windows 8, it's biggest problem is that it is that the Metro UI is counterproductive, it's much easier now to use the keyboard (Press start, type the first few letters of the program you want, press enter) to get to your programs instead of using the touchscreen or the mouse, If they made the metro ui an option instead of the standard, and didn't tick off the hardware folks, Microsoft probably wouldn't be in this jam.


I think they're trying to pull a Google and put out a really good reference model at a good price in order to push manufacturers to compete with that. The problem came in the fact that this broke a long standing tradition of how this was handled between manufacturers and Microsoft. (Another problem may be how long it took them to get around to actually releasing Surface devices)

Still, I dunno how valuable "butthurt" is as a business model, and it seems like manufacturers are having to get it in gear anyway.
 
2013-01-24 06:08:11 PM

Shazam999: I can't believe the number of goofs that still run XP.


It's still a pretty stable OS.
 
2013-01-24 06:35:38 PM
MS Earnings call just wrapped up: "This quarter, total revenue for Windows grew 11%. That's pretty good, considering the decline in PC sales.

Non-OEM revenue grew 40% driven by sales of Surface and Windows upgrades, among other things.

Remember that the Windows upgrade offer expires at the end of February. At that time, we will recognize $1.1 billion, which is all the deferred revenue related to the offer."

Suck it haters - Windows 8 is selling, and selling very well.
 
2013-01-24 07:03:45 PM

MrSteve007: Suck it haters - Windows 8 is selling, and selling very well.


No part of your link offered any evidence to back that statement.

I can't tell if you're trolling, astroturfing or just a very, very goofy bastard...
 
2013-01-24 07:37:36 PM
I got a Win8 workstation two days ago, because I thought I have to find out myself how it is, instead of being told how it is.

Sure, there was a learning curve. It took me about two hours to get used to it. The biggest challenge wasn't really the Start Menu itself, but getting used to how to toggle between it and the Desktop.

After two days, I'm ready to toss my old workstation, I don't need to go back to it.
 
2013-01-24 08:00:26 PM
When Windows 95 came out, was there this much biatching about the change from the Program Manager to the Start Menu? The internet wasn't as developed back then, so I don't remember.
 
2013-01-24 08:15:25 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: MrSteve007: Suck it haters - Windows 8 is selling, and selling very well.

No part of your link offered any evidence to back that statement.

I can't tell if you're trolling, astroturfing or just a very, very goofy bastard...


Let's see - the link says revenue of Windows grew by 11%. Considering they're selling the OS at a massively reduced price of either $15 or $40 - it's impressive they grew revenue while selling at a massive discount. If revenue remained flat, that would mean there was no major bump in sales and things were going as they were the quarter before. If there was a drop, then it would show that no one wants to upgrade to Windows 8 - like some farkers like to claim. Unless the quarter saw a huge increase in demand for Windows 7, it's pretty solid evidence that Windows 8 is selling.

Never mind MS reiterating that they've already sold over 60 million licenses in a about 3 months (the same rate Windows 7 sold at launch), and that they're deferring over a billion dollars in Windows 8 upgrade revenues for the next quarter.

I'd say that's plenty of evidence things are going just fine for Win 8. Their record revenues, lead by the Windows division certainly show that.
 
2013-01-24 08:43:25 PM

Electrify: When Windows 95 came out, was there this much biatching about the change from the Program Manager to the Start Menu? The internet wasn't as developed back then, so I don't remember.


No. There was however a substantial amount of biatching on Fidonet. Not because of the move from ProgMan to Start... but because Win95a was a horribly unstable POS that'd eat it's own file system drivers at the drop of a hat and on more than one occasion would delete io.sys, rendering the C drive unbootable.

Anyone remember Win95 as being 'good' is talking about OSR2 (aka Win95b), not the A version.
 
2013-01-24 08:43:36 PM
My cousin bought my decidedly non-tech-savvy aunt a Windows 8 laptop for Christmas. I spent a few minutes toying with it before setting it aside, since I reckoned my aunt wouldn't be terribly thrilled if I threw the laptop across the room (and besides that, I didn't want to upset the cats). Going to take the advice of several people here and install Classic Shell so that she's capable of actually using it.

Random aside: where's linux_yes when you need him/her/it? It's been a while since I've had consistent Internets but I swear I saw him/her/it post recently, so I doubt the mods dropped the banhammer...
 
2013-01-24 08:48:06 PM

MrSteve007: I'd say that's plenty of evidence things are going just fine for Win 8. Their record revenues, lead by the Windows division certainly show that.



Bzzzt. I'm sorry please use retail sales figures not bulk purchases from the OEM's to substantiate your claims.

I cite your own post stating that at the exact same time in Win7's release it'd sold the exact same number of licenses as proof you are counting an OEM (i.e. Dell) bulk purchase.

Exactly how many retail, boxed copies of Win8 have sold. And your reticence to ever mention that in the threads you've astroturfed also confirms your paid by Microsoft, either directly or via a proxy PR firm.

I can't even be bothered dancing with you, you suck at your job. I hope you get fired.
 
2013-01-24 08:48:27 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14 knows more than these so called powerusers at the top of this thread.


perhaps if he knew what he was doing he could have googled "windows defender windows8" and/or used the windows+c or windows+x key maybe even the windows+r key. all the old stuff is there it's just hidden under a veneer of end user friendly things.
 
2013-01-24 08:54:04 PM

wedun: all the old stuff is there it's just hidden under a veneer of end user friendly things.


And I can completely disable all of that end user friendly things yes? Metro, tiles, charms, all the other bollocks correct? Click a few buttons, tick a few boxes and it's all very very dead never to reappear unless I turn them on?

Call me when it retails in the bargain bin for £1 and those options are there. Not before.

/Don't bother, we both know you can't turn that stuff off.
 
2013-01-24 08:55:39 PM

Vaneshi: wedun: all the old stuff is there it's just hidden under a veneer of end user friendly things.

And I can completely disable all of that end user friendly things yes? Metro, tiles, charms, all the other bollocks correct? Click a few buttons, tick a few boxes and it's all very very dead never to reappear unless I turn them on?

Call me when it retails in the bargain bin for £1 and those options are there. Not before.

/Don't bother, we both know you can't turn that stuff off.


you sound worse than those people who whined about the start button when windows 95 came out.
 
2013-01-24 09:09:36 PM

wedun: you sound worse than those people who whined about the start button when windows 95 came out.


You know what was still there as an option in Windows XP?

The Windows 3.1 Program Manager.

Of course, that was back when Microsoft cared more about allowing their customers to leverage their training dollars to get their work done than they cared about leveraging the Windows brand to try to break into the tablet market.
 
2013-01-24 09:11:48 PM

Vaneshi: Bzzzt. I'm sorry please use retail sales figures not bulk purchases from the OEM's to substantiate your claims.

I cite your own post stating that at the exact same time in Win7's release it'd sold the exact same number of licenses as proof you are counting an OEM (i.e. Dell) bulk purchase.

Exactly how many retail, boxed copies of Win8 have sold. And your reticence to ever mention that in the threads you've astroturfed also confirms your paid by Microsoft, either directly or via a proxy PR firm.

I can't even be bothered dancing with you, you suck at your job. I hope you get fired.


Ha, there's a reason why I have you favorited as "paranoid." If you'd like, you can always privately message me and I can give you the main line into my office's front desk. You'll find out very quickly that I work in marketing and IT for an architecture firm (which is also why I'm heavily into renewable energy). Or simply, you can read my bio at a 3rd party non-profit where I'm on the board as vice-president. Unless the regional Emmy Awards are part of the great MS conspiracy, you can put your astroturfing paranoia to rest.

I honestly don't think anyone knows how many boxed copies of Win 8 have been sold - unless MS has their fingers in every mom and pop shop, best buy, newegg, amazon, etc. sales receipts. All they would know is how many units they've shipped to retailers and OEM box builders - and then they would know how many activations they've had. I do wish they'd share activation statistics.

If you think they're padding the books by shipping millions of dusty copies of Windows 8 to OEM's and retailers, it should come out in next quarter's earnings and reports. But the fact is that there's over a billion licensed copies of Windows out there. Roughly 20 million new desktops and laptops are sold every month. Considering Apple sells a hair over a million computers a month, 19 out of 20 million new computers have Windows on them. They've been selling at that monthly rate for roughly a decade. I don't see any reason, or any indications that they're slowing down in sales by more than a few percentage points.
And ask yourself this question. If revenues at the Windows division is up - and it doesn't look like Windows 7 is flying off the shelves - what are they selling to make those billions?
 
2013-01-24 09:14:04 PM

SuperT: oh, and using the 'metro' interface in server 2012. that was just pure awesome, because as awesome as a tablet interface is on a regular desktop, having it in a server UI was even more awesome.


Having Metro on a Server actually makes sense in an odd way. Since servers are generally run headless, the touch interface would make life much easier for an admin who is using Remote Desktop to access the server using a tablet. Not sure how often that would happen, but it is a use case where the tiles make sense.
 
2013-01-25 01:10:11 AM
I just got back from buying a new computer. I set it up, turned it on, went through a quick setup and was hit square in the face with a whole bag of WTF. I was concerned about windows 8 because of all the internet buzz, but there were only two computers available with windows 7 and they were both pricey gaming boxes. So I got a new Asus that's actually the fastest computer I've ever owned and I can't figure out how to do anything because of the shiatty interface. Thanks a lot, Microsoft.
The new 24" LED monitor is awesome though!
 
2013-01-25 01:24:14 AM
Microsoft had it right with Windows XP Professional. Then they broke it with Vista. Fixed some of what they broke with Windows 7. And then decided to sh*t all over it with Windows 8.

Dear Microsoft: I don't want my computer to look or work like a smartphone. Stop pandering and build a serious operating system that actually works and doesn't require the user to go hunting all over the place for all the options you've decided to hide. You had the interface right at XP. You could have just improved on it, but -- no -- you had to screw it up. By Windows 8, the interface looks more like a toy, and in some strange way it takes me back to Microsoft Bob™.
 
2013-01-25 05:57:36 AM

redsquid: I just got back from buying a new computer. I set it up, turned it on, went through a quick setup and was hit square in the face with a whole bag of WTF. I was concerned about windows 8 because of all the internet buzz, but there were only two computers available with windows 7 and they were both pricey gaming boxes. So I got a new Asus that's actually the fastest computer I've ever owned and I can't figure out how to do anything because of the shiatty interface. Thanks a lot, Microsoft.
The new 24" LED monitor is awesome though!


Lower left corner takes you to the start screen. You can right click there for a handy menu. Upper left corner opens a menu letting you switch between currently running apps with the top corner itself going to the most recent. It's like a taskbar for apps. Assuming you don't have a tablet you'll probably ignore that. Right corners open the charms bar which has the search, share, settings, etc buttons. What those buttons do depend on where you are, that's where you'll find settings for and be able to search for things in the specific app you're using, or more generally if you're in the desktop or start screen.

when you open the start screen you can just start typing and it'll bring up search. If you hit enter it'll run it's best guess. It's the same combination run/search bar from 7 only it works a bit better. It splits the results into apps, settings, and files. So if you type "Windows Update" and wonder why you don't get any results, it's because it defaults to showing apps.

You can use the scroll wheel to pan the start screen, through ideally you wouldn't have so much stuff pinned that you'd need to. You should probably immediately unpin half the crap that Microsoft puts there (right click the tile, select unpin from the bottom of the screen). If you right click somewhere on the start screen that isn't a tile you'll get an "all apps" option that'll show you everything in the old start menu structure - though if you need to do that, searching is probably easier. Right click on whatever you actually want and pin it to the start menu or taskbar as appropriate. You can move tiles to different tile groups by dragging them, and if you click the little box in the lower right, it'll zoom out and you can right click your tile groups to name them.

Other than that, there really isn't a whole lot to figure out. The interface isn't all that terribly shiatty really - they just don't bother to tell you anything about how to use it.
 
2013-01-25 06:28:52 AM

seanpg71: Other than that, there really isn't a whole lot to figure out. The interface isn't all that terribly shiatty really - they just don't bother to tell you anything about how to use it.


I found getting  out of an app a little bit unintuitive, but only because I didn't think to hit the Windows key on a touchscreen ultrabook. ;)
 
2013-01-25 07:30:12 AM

seanpg71: redsquid: I just got back from buying a new computer. I set it up, turned it on, went through a quick setup and was hit square in the face with a whole bag of WTF. I was concerned about windows 8 because of all the internet buzz, but there were only two computers available with windows 7 and they were both pricey gaming boxes. So I got a new Asus that's actually the fastest computer I've ever owned and I can't figure out how to do anything because of the shiatty interface. Thanks a lot, Microsoft.
The new 24" LED monitor is awesome though!

Lower left corner takes you to the start screen. You can right click there for a handy menu. Upper left corner opens a menu letting you switch between currently running apps with the top corner itself going to the most recent. It's like a taskbar for apps. Assuming you don't have a tablet you'll probably ignore that. Right corners open the charms bar which has the search, share, settings, etc buttons. What those buttons do depend on where you are, that's where you'll find settings for and be able to search for things in the specific app you're using, or more generally if you're in the desktop or start screen.

when you open the start screen you can just start typing and it'll bring up search. If you hit enter it'll run it's best guess. It's the same combination run/search bar from 7 only it works a bit better. It splits the results into apps, settings, and files. So if you type "Windows Update" and wonder why you don't get any results, it's because it defaults to showing apps.

You can use the scroll wheel to pan the start screen, through ideally you wouldn't have so much stuff pinned that you'd need to. You should probably immediately unpin half the crap that Microsoft puts there (right click the tile, select unpin from the bottom of the screen). If you right click somewhere on the start screen that isn't a tile you'll get an "all apps" option that'll show you everything in the old start menu structure - though if yo ..
.


Download Classic Shell for free. Brings back the Start button and menu.
 
2013-01-25 07:58:55 AM

Mad_Radhu: SuperT: oh, and using the 'metro' interface in server 2012. that was just pure awesome, because as awesome as a tablet interface is on a regular desktop, having it in a server UI was even more awesome.

Having Metro on a Server actually makes sense in an odd way. Since servers are generally run headless, the touch interface would make life much easier for an admin who is using Remote Desktop to access the server using a tablet. Not sure how often that would happen, but it is a use case where the tiles make sense.


As an SA since way back when, I can never think of a time or place that this would happen in real life. Interesting in theory though.
 
2013-01-25 10:01:57 AM
Vaneshi:

No. There was however a substantial amount of biatching on Fidonet. Not because of the move from ProgMan to Start... but because Win95a was a horribly unstable POS that'd eat it's own file system drivers at the drop of a hat and on more than one occasion would delete io.sys, rendering the C drive unbootable.

Anyone remember Win95 as being 'good' is talking about OSR2 (aka Win95b), not the A version.

The same thing actually happened with both Win98 (wasn't great until Second Edition came out) and XP (Service Pack 1 fixed a lot of glaring issues.) The first release of a Windows OS is usually a buggy mess, with 7 (which was basically an SE for Vista in a lot of ways) and Win 8 (outside of Metro) as the exceptions.
 
2013-01-25 10:35:51 AM
Shazam999: farkeruk: Shazam999: People complained when Windows 7 came out.

Who did?

Windows 7 was an unreserved success. No-one complained about Windows 7. It was faster than Vista, the UI was improved and it added a bit to stability, too.

Come on. Go type "windows 7 sucks" into Google and see what happens.


Typed in Windows 7 sucks and got 40,800,000 results

Typed in Apple sucks and got 72,900,000 results
 
2013-01-25 11:38:07 AM

MrSteve007: Vaneshi: Bzzzt. I'm sorry please use retail sales figures not bulk purchases from the OEM's to substantiate your claims.

I cite your own post stating that at the exact same time in Win7's release it'd sold the exact same number of licenses as proof you are counting an OEM (i.e. Dell) bulk purchase.

Exactly how many retail, boxed copies of Win8 have sold. And your reticence to ever mention that in the threads you've astroturfed also confirms your paid by Microsoft, either directly or via a proxy PR firm.

I can't even be bothered dancing with you, you suck at your job. I hope you get fired.

Ha, there's a reason why I have you favorited as "paranoid." If you'd like, you can always privately message me and I can give you the main line into my office's front desk. You'll find out very quickly that I work in marketing and IT for an architecture firm (which is also why I'm heavily into renewable energy). Or simply, you can read my bio at a 3rd party non-profit where I'm on the board as vice-president. Unless the regional Emmy Awards are part of the great MS conspiracy, you can put your astroturfing paranoia to rest.

I honestly don't think anyone knows how many boxed copies of Win 8 have been sold - unless MS has their fingers in every mom and pop shop, best buy, newegg, amazon, etc. sales receipts. All they would know is how many units they've shipped to retailers and OEM box builders - and then they would know how many activations they've had. I do wish they'd share activation statistics.

If you think they're padding the books by shipping millions of dusty copies of Windows 8 to OEM's and retailers, it should come out in next quarter's earnings and reports. But the fact is that there's over a billion licensed copies of Windows out there. Roughly 20 million new desktops and laptops are sold every month. Considering Apple sells a hair over a million computers a month, 19 out of 20 million new computers have Windows on them. They've been selling at that monthly rat ...


Don't bother with him. He doesn't understand that an OEM sale is actually money that ends up in MS's pocket. For some reason he thinks that only end consumers who purchase it count as "real money".
 
2013-01-25 01:18:21 PM
I'm one of those "people" that still uses XP. Bought a toshiba 7/8 years ago and it still runs like a champ. Only had to add some ram and an external HD for all of my music.

/own an iPhone and an iPad
/change doesnt scare me, i just like the way XP works. I can remove programs and clean up stuff without a bunch of extra steps.
 
2013-01-25 03:36:53 PM
XP is still a fine OS. It's main issue nowadays is iffy 64-bit hardware support and no DX 10+ support.
 
2013-01-27 09:05:57 PM

Flint Ironstag: Download Classic Shell for free. Brings back the Start button and menu.


I have a problem with having to download a third party app to adjust my operating system in a way Microsoft should have left in. Even if it required a registry tweak instead of a checkmark during install or in the control panel, "Classic Shell" makes more sense for businesses and power users
 
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