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(The Register)   Microsoft admits WIndows 8's poor sales are due to crappy software design and lack of useful features, vows to completely re-write it by next month. JUST KIDDING, they squarely place blame on tablet manufacturers, who couldn't keep up with demand   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 151
    More: Stupid, software designers, PC makers, Microsoft, Windows, Texas Instruments  
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2301 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Jan 2013 at 10:26 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-24 12:02:31 PM

CVGScorch: With a little bit of work, a few tweaks, a third party program or two and it works just fine.


The thing is; people should not have to make a few tweaks, or add a third party program or two. The damn thing should just be user friendly from the very start. Underneath it's not a bad OS. But MS failed in the initial user experience.
 
2013-01-24 12:02:37 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.


I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.
 
2013-01-24 12:06:14 PM

pheelix: netweavr: dbirchall: narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!

FTFA:Microsoft did say that the figure of 60 million could be attributed to upgrades and sales to manufacturers - so not sales of actual PCs to the end user.

I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

It was $40 and I had XP.

I thought about getting it for my wife's XP machine, but I like being married to her.


Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: netweavr: dbirchall: narkor: Lets see. 60 million licenses sold. That's 70% of the entire Mac OSX base. Keep submitting these stories fanboys!

FTFA:Microsoft did say that the figure of 60 million could be attributed to upgrades and sales to manufacturers - so not sales of actual PCs to the end user.

I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

It was $40 and I had XP.

Probably a good move. There are work arounds to get it to behave like Win 7.


Haven't needed to do any real tweaking yet. But it's my home box and mostly just used for Steam, Netflix, and Gmail. Dev stuff I RDP to work for anyways.
 
2013-01-24 12:06:33 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: CVGScorch: With a little bit of work, a few tweaks, a third party program or two and it works just fine.

The thing is; people should not have to make a few tweaks, or add a third party program or two. The damn thing should just be user friendly from the very start. Underneath it's not a bad OS. But MS failed in the initial user experience.


But this is entirely subjective. People have always wanted/needed to tweak the OS to get the most out of it.
 
2013-01-24 12:06:46 PM

Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.


I don't even necessarily think putting a tablet OS on a PC is an intrinsically bad idea, you just can't drop the many feature people actually liked about the PC interface. Giving me alternatives to the Start Menu is fine but I've spent years developing workflow habits around it, forcing me to relearn everything just encourages me to stick with 7 or find a more XP-styled version of Linux already. Or just say "screw it" and hop over to OS X full time.
 
2013-01-24 12:09:02 PM

MightyPez: Because they would need to expand their mostly lean OS X development into a much larger department to accomodate the broader hardware base. There is no real benefit to getting more bloated to accomodate a market that may not accept them for the off chance someone will buy their hardware.

OS X is kept lean and functional because they cater to a very narrow selection of hardware. Apple has made it very clear they build computers that are more appliance than traditional desktop, and it makes them a lot of money.

Even if they were to suddenly decide to enter the OS business, they would probably need to increase licensing costs and manage end user licensing a lot more. As it stands Apple is fairly apathetic about people pirating OS X and they even allow a single purchase to be installed several times. But with a larger dev team the price of OS X wouldn't stay at $20.


Thank you for that - now it makes a lot more sense.
 
2013-01-24 12:10:39 PM

netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.


But how is it compared to 7?
 
2013-01-24 12:14:24 PM

theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.


You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.
 
2013-01-24 12:15:25 PM

dbirchall: I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.


I had a choice...the same computer was $80 MORE with Windows 7, so I let myself be talked into 8.

/big mistake
//HUGE...
 
2013-01-24 12:15:43 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: CVGScorch: With a little bit of work, a few tweaks, a third party program or two and it works just fine.

The thing is; people should not have to make a few tweaks, or add a third party program or two. The damn thing should just be user friendly from the very start. Underneath it's not a bad OS. But MS failed in the initial user experience.


It would appear half of the users hate most OS defaults, no matter what flavor. There is nothing wrong with third party apps for those who like them for more customization options. The problem was integrating a desktop OS (which most people are using it for) with a mobile OS (which few people use) and making the mobile OS the default interface. As someone with access to the customer test feedbacks, I can't imagine how that passed user testing, especially with the lazy MS test communities that hate clicking more than they have to.
 
2013-01-24 12:23:06 PM

pheelix: netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

But how is it compared to 7?


At least for me it works fine. I don't use the metro screen for much yet, mostly just playing around with it. But besides that not much different. It's seems to be quite stable and fast. I know I'm in the minority here but I've had no real issues or problems. It does take a few days to figure out the new stuff. But most of that is just minor. Really if you have a desktop you don't need to upgrade. I did because it was $40, and i got a windows phone so i wanted to how they would interact. But given the chance I would not go back either. But like I said i guess I'm in the minority.
 
2013-01-24 12:23:51 PM

Bareefer Obonghit: As someone who has a touchscreen desktop (I got an All-In-One a while ago, before it was cool... what's that? It still isn't? Well damn.) and paid the $40 to upgrade the day it came out (fark you, don't give me that look!) I have to say that this is objectively shiattier than Windows 7 in almost every way. And I have a touch screen desktop! Look, I clearly have a history of making stupid purchases (I bought a Xoom at full price when it came out, had a virtual boy once when I was a kid, a Sega 32x, etc.) but I almost feel worse about this one. Every time I boot up I immediately click (notice I didn't say touch) the tile for the desktop then go about my business using it as a Windows 7 PC without a start button. I know there's a way to have it boot up to the desktop but I never do it hoping that one day I'll want to use the tiles and corny bullshiat. I don't. It has added nothing to my experience. Not a thing. I basically gave Mircosoft $40 to make Windows 7 more of a hassle to navigate. Also, I had to learn how to bury my porn videos again, so that's always fun. In conclusion, fark Windows 8, I hope Steve Ballmer gets cancer in his asshole.


Classic Shell is a good patch for Windows 8 if using it on a desktop, you can choose how far it goes (start button, begin in desktop, etc.) Only thing it doesn't fix is documents that are tied to Modern UI apps (like say PDF by default), and you still have to ensure you do things like install Skype for Desktop instead of the default Modern UI App, etc.
 
2013-01-24 12:29:14 PM

pheelix: netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

But how is it compared to 7?


About the same. I figured out the start menu vs. metro thing pretty quick. Other than that, I've heard it's faster but I have no direct experience using the same machine.
 
2013-01-24 12:29:21 PM

Stone Meadow: dbirchall: I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

I had a choice...the same computer was $80 MORE with Windows 7, so I let myself be talked into 8.

/big mistake
//HUGE...


If it helps, Microsoft has an offer for downgrading to Windows 7
 
2013-01-24 12:30:50 PM
The full screen mode is ridiculous on the desktop. I cannot believe they did no usability testing, or hell, any testing at all.

Metro is a crap experience, especially when just want to stay in the goddammed desktop mode. Stop popping me out of it and force feeding metro to me.
 
2013-01-24 12:32:10 PM

pheelix: netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

But how is it compared to 7?


Boots faster
runs faster
you could refresh it if it feel slow
super easy reinstall
Drivers. It picked up a wifi card meant for a Samsung HDTV(WIS12ABGNX) when Windows 7 couldn't even with a online search
 
2013-01-24 12:35:10 PM

jbtilley: It's ok but I do have a few WTF nits:

1) So you can adjust the color of windows borders... but you can't adjust the color of window border text. Want a dark color? Well you won't be able to read the black text in the window border.
2) Why can't I natively create tiles for the start screen? Seriously. Just create a new square, pick an image, and choose a program from a list. Nope, gotta be one of a few apps and even then you can't customize the tile. You have to use a 3rd party program to help you do this. It's just shortcuts on a screen. Seriously, Packard Bell used something similar back in the 386 days and they gave you actual customizations to work with.

And in classic MS form they don't let you pick the background you want for something without a registry hack, this time it's the start screen. Why is dropping a user selected image into the background such a hard thing. Gotta be one of 8 presets. I guess they do that to preserve resources on a cellphone, but I'm using a desktop. They really should have made a "separate but equal" OS for both a desktop and a cellphone.

Just a few nits that make me scratch my head. The two I mentioned above were literally the first two things I tried after moving to Windows 8. How did that get past any usability test... or was all testing performed on phones?


Eh, they didn't let you change the background of the start menu without editing a dll in xp, not sure about vista/7. A registry key is a step up but yeah, seems like something people would want.

You can create tiles for the start screen. If you want them to be live tiles and do things, then you'll need to actually make an app. But if you just want a shortcut, then just search for whatever program you want and right click it and select pin-to-start. The list of tiles they give you is just the contents of the old start menu. If you right click a tile and select "open file location" it'll bring up the shortcut's location (probably C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs). You can edit the shortcut to do whatever you want and have whatever icon you want and the tile will do that.
 
2013-01-24 12:35:41 PM
I love these threads. daily. honest.
I'll regurgitate my experience as well, simply to keep up with everyone else.

Asus vivo tab. Touchscreen with free keyboard dock. Verdict :Very good. Even if it is RT, for work I have access to everything I need on a tablet that when docked gives me about 15 hours of battery life.
Only things I really miss are a full outlook version and Chrome.

Toshiba laptop i7 with ssd. purchased the upgrade. Verdict : good. Boots like lightning. with admin tiles turned on and adding my most used app to the tiles I'm good to go. Yes, there was a slight learning curve to not having a start menu. That lasted maybe a day.

As mentioned in another thread, both kids (14 and 10) picked up using the OS for what they need/want to do on their laptops very quickly. Showed them easy access to desktop, as well as hover left for open apps, hover right for "options", plus click and drag to close.

Hell, if you absolutely hate it, don't buy it. But it didn't turn you into a newt from which you got better. Yes it has a wart, but you put the fake nose on it.
 
2013-01-24 12:40:32 PM

pkellmey: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: CVGScorch: With a little bit of work, a few tweaks, a third party program or two and it works just fine.

The thing is; people should not have to make a few tweaks, or add a third party program or two. The damn thing should just be user friendly from the very start. Underneath it's not a bad OS. But MS failed in the initial user experience.

It would appear half of the users hate most OS defaults, no matter what flavor. There is nothing wrong with third party apps for those who like them for more customization options. The problem was integrating a desktop OS (which most people are using it for) with a mobile OS (which few people use) and making the mobile OS the default interface. As someone with access to the customer test feedbacks, I can't imagine how that passed user testing, especially with the lazy MS test communities that hate clicking more than they have to.


It's worse. the consumer preview had a registry hack to boot into desktop. By the release preview Redmond had fixed that "glitch".

Just because you can make it look like Windows 7 doesn't mean that it's okay. Can you boot into desktop? No?
 
2013-01-24 12:43:58 PM

MightyPez: Stone Meadow: dbirchall: I suspect the breakdown is something like this:
00.1% - people actually buying Windows 8 by itself, to upgrade from something else.
24.9% - people buying new machines and having no choice but Windows 8.
75.0% - "sold" to distributors/retailers, so now it's their problem, not ours.

I had a choice...the same computer was $80 MORE with Windows 7, so I let myself be talked into 8.

/big mistake
//HUGE...

If it helps, Microsoft has an offer for downgrading to Windows 7


Good stuff...thanks!
 
2013-01-24 12:44:09 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: Yesterday I was handed an HP laptop and was asked to "fix it".

Turned out to the be the first Windows 8 experience I've had.

As a Mac guy I get the sense of the idea Microsoft has with this and I like what they think they want to do, but the execution of how to get there... ugh.

It took me about 10 seconds to find Desktop, it took me another 10 seconds to discover that they've removed Control Panel and everything else useful from Desktop. 5 minutes later I found out how to turn on the "Administration Tiles" on the main Metro screen

The scrolling is phone-like, the icons are terrible, the menus are too sparse, it's just too disjointed.

I went to uninstall Norton so I could turn Windows Defender on (the renamed MSE), but I couldn't find Windows Defender anywhere. I found the Search Charm, typed in Windows Defender, first result came up, clicked it, error message telling me that something else was already the default antivirus and I needed to go disable that first in the Security Center. Of course Windows didn't offer to link me to the Security Center, I had to spend another 5 minutes figuring out how to dig that up.

It feels like everything I really need is intentionally buried behind 5 layers of searching crap, while the crap I don't need has gigantic animated tiles for quick access. It's like running MS-DOS and not being able to type "dir".

I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here. That a person who uses a totally different OS took less than ten minutes to do something on a OS he has not used ever
/Protip you can get to the control panel from the desktop
[i.imgur.com image 850x637]
In the left corner where the Metro/Start icon pop up just right click on it


Or select settings from the charms bar on the right and click control panel from there when in the desktop. It makes sense that it would be there. In general, all app settings are supposed to be in the settings section of the charms bar, though it's a bit of a crap shoot whether the app will use that or have some other configuration menu in app.

There's also the slightly less obvious "Change PC Settings" thing at the bottom of the charms bar that takes you to the *other* control panel. That's not at all confusing. :p
 
2013-01-24 12:45:48 PM
So, the piles of Windows 8 tablets, desktops, etc. that I see gathering dust in stores are there because manufacturers can't make them fast enough for the piles to be bigger?

Exec 1: People aren't buying very many of our widgets! They're just sitting on the shelves in stores!
Exec 2: Make more of them! Clearly it's a supply issue!
Exec 1: Good ide-wait, what?
 
2013-01-24 12:47:15 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.

You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.


I attribute that to my good looks, good taste, solid financial stability and overall enviable existence.

Now excuse me while I strut around in a confident manner.
 
2013-01-24 12:48:07 PM

IanMoone: Just because you can make it look like Windows 7 doesn't mean that it's okay. Can you boot into desktop? No?


It's pure agony for me to click on the classic desktop after I reboot my PC every few months too. I feel your pain.
 
2013-01-24 12:50:19 PM
Wow, weird.

See, I never use the Start Menu other than the Search textbox and some pinned apps (Excel, Word). I have so much stuff on my machine, that lame little menu is worthless.

So I didn't mind the BIG TILES they gave in Windows 8. Also you search just by typing, which is very nice for me.
 
2013-01-24 12:53:53 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.

You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.


But seriously, we Mac users are not foreigners from another planet who have never seen Windows before. At work I spend my time on a Windows 7 workstation. I support Windows XP. At home I was a Windows XP before my Mac, W2K before that, NT 4 Workstation before that, OS/2 and MS-DOS all the way back to the VIC-20s and C64s of my childhood. I'm not your typical Windows 8 user. I can find things eventually on a computer screen.

My concern is the rest of the folks out there. The reason the HP laptop was given to me to "fix" was to uninstall a program. The person who owns the laptop is not a stupid person, just not an IT guy like me. It's just Windows 8 is so difficult for them that they can't uninstall a program and had to hand the laptop to me. That was my point.
 
2013-01-24 12:58:28 PM
For those saying you can ignore Metro, that may be true for now but Microsoft is going to push developers to use Metro, which can't share a screen with classic apps (bad for multiple monitor folks and productivity)

And of course the solution to poor sales is RAISING THE PRICE.
/unlikely tag
 
2013-01-24 01:01:04 PM

theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.

You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.

But seriously, we Mac users are not foreigners from another planet who have never seen Windows before. At work I spend my time on a Windows 7 workstation. I support Windows XP. At home I was a Windows XP before my Mac, W2K before that, NT 4 Workstation before that, OS/2 and MS-DOS all the way back to the VIC-20s and C64s of my childhood. I'm not your typical Windows 8 user. I can find things eventually on a computer screen.

My concern is the rest of the folks out there. The reason the HP laptop was given to me to "fix" was to uninstall a program. The person who owns the laptop is not a stupid person, just not an IT guy like me. It's just Windows 8 is so difficult for them that they can't uninstall a program and had to hand the laptop to me. That was my point.


Right click on tile in start screen, select "uninstall". If it's an app, it uninstalls. If it's an application, it takes you to the add/remove programs dialog.
 
2013-01-24 01:01:49 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: pheelix: netweavr: Eh? It feels nicer than XP. Kinda pleased with the change.

But how is it compared to 7?

Boots faster
runs faster
you could refresh it if it feel slow
super easy reinstall
Drivers. It picked up a wifi card meant for a Samsung HDTV(WIS12ABGNX) when Windows 7 couldn't even with a online search


That's the sad part. Under the hood, it appears to be much improved. But the user interface is such a clusterfark nobody can see that.
 
2013-01-24 01:02:54 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with Windows 8 if I could have the Start screen stay up permanently on one of my screens with the live tiles displaying info and then the desktop on my second screen. Instead, every time I click on the desktop, the start screen disappears. Retarded.
 
2013-01-24 01:03:43 PM

seanpg71: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: theurge14: drjekel_mrhyde: I have no farking clue what you are trying to prove here.

I was relating my first experience with Windows 8. I'm sorry it bothered you.

You didn't bother me at all. I found it funny that a Mac user who never touched W8 was able to find out how things work in less than 10 minutes when these so called Windows Powerusers can't seem to do that.

But seriously, we Mac users are not foreigners from another planet who have never seen Windows before. At work I spend my time on a Windows 7 workstation. I support Windows XP. At home I was a Windows XP before my Mac, W2K before that, NT 4 Workstation before that, OS/2 and MS-DOS all the way back to the VIC-20s and C64s of my childhood. I'm not your typical Windows 8 user. I can find things eventually on a computer screen.

My concern is the rest of the folks out there. The reason the HP laptop was given to me to "fix" was to uninstall a program. The person who owns the laptop is not a stupid person, just not an IT guy like me. It's just Windows 8 is so difficult for them that they can't uninstall a program and had to hand the laptop to me. That was my point.

Right click on tile in start screen, select "uninstall". If it's an app, it uninstalls. If it's an application, it takes you to the add/remove programs dialog.


There was no tile for Norton. But I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
 
2013-01-24 01:03:49 PM

Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.


SHUT UP YOU PEON! RICH PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR IN ALL THINGS AND WILL MAKE ALL OF YOUR DECISIONS!
 
2013-01-24 01:06:38 PM

Bareefer Obonghit: As someone who has a touchscreen desktop (I got an All-In-One a while ago, before it was cool... what's that? It still isn't? Well damn.) and paid the $40 to upgrade the day it came out (fark you, don't give me that look!) I have to say that this is objectively shiattier than Windows 7 in almost every way. And I have a touch screen desktop! Look, I clearly have a history of making stupid purchases (I bought a Xoom at full price when it came out, had a virtual boy once when I was a kid, a Sega 32x, etc.) but I almost feel worse about this one. Every time I boot up I immediately click (notice I didn't say touch) the tile for the desktop then go about my business using it as a Windows 7 PC without a start button. I know there's a way to have it boot up to the desktop but I never do it hoping that one day I'll want to use the tiles and corny bullshiat. I don't. It has added nothing to my experience. Not a thing. I basically gave Mircosoft $40 to make Windows 7 more of a hassle to navigate. Also, I had to learn how to bury my porn videos again, so that's always fun. In conclusion, fark Windows 8, I hope Steve Ballmer gets cancer in his asshole.


GREEEEEAT.

So, creating hidden folders deep in the hard drive is more difficult, too?
 
2013-01-24 01:21:32 PM

Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.


What baffles me is that their testers told them this over and over, it's not like it took them by surprise.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-01-24 01:27:41 PM

pyrotek85: What baffles me is that their testers told them this over and over, it's not like it took them by surprise.


MS has never been about user choice.  They're not as bad as Apple in that regard, but they very much want you to live in a MS-dominated PC/tablet/mobile world.  They want to make the iPhone and iPad so bad they can taste it.  But Ballmer is a high-functioning moron who primarily uses market share and OEM deals to push through dumb ideas years after others have already shipped them. They really, really want you to get used to that mobile UI -- whether it's a good idea or not.

It's not baffling in the slightest.
 
2013-01-24 01:31:16 PM

wee: pyrotek85: What baffles me is that their testers told them this over and over, it's not like it took them by surprise.

MS has never been about user choice.  They're not as bad as Apple in that regard, but they very much want you to live in a MS-dominated PC/tablet/mobile world.  They want to make the iPhone and iPad so bad they can taste it.  But Ballmer is a high-functioning moron who primarily uses market share and OEM deals to push through dumb ideas years after others have already shipped them. They really, really want you to get used to that mobile UI -- whether it's a good idea or not.

It's not baffling in the slightest.


I guess I just expected them to not be so stubborn when it's their money and brand at stake.
 
2013-01-24 01:31:18 PM
Another Windows 8 biatching thread?

Well, why not? If normal people can be unwilling to try anything different with computers, why can't the IT crowd?

/the interface is fine
//don't hope for it to change with Windows 9
///you'll get over it
 
2013-01-24 01:33:06 PM

xria: Bareefer Obonghit:

Classic Shell is a good patch for Windows 8 if using it on a desktop, you can choose how far it goes (start button, begin in desktop, etc.) Only thing it doesn't fix is documents that are tied to Modern UI apps (like say PDF by default), and you still have to ensure you do things like install Skype for Desktop instead of the default Modern UI App, etc.


I appreciate what you're saying, and I'm aware of this stuff (still helpful for you to post it for anyone interested), but my problem is more that I need to do that just to essentially make my computer a Windows 7 computer again, you know? I don't want to have to make my computer Windows 7. I was all for the idea of a shiny new Windows OS that if I put some time into getting used to would offer actual benefits over 7, but it is such coont slime that the best option is to patch it to act like Windows 7. That's garbage.

doczoidberg: Bareefer Obonghit:

GREEEEEAT.

So, creating hidden folders deep in the hard drive is more difficult, too?


It's not really that, it's that it automatically pulls all your video files into one of the tiles without prompting you where to look when you first install it so when you boot up the 'live tile' labeled Video will have screenshots of Mexican Amputee Polio Anal Party 7 on it until you go and change where the videos are getting pulled from or disable the slideshow. I mean, I may have gone about this in the wrong way since 8 was new to me (probably not hard to disable), and it may not seem like that much to deal with, but it's just annoying as fark like everything else I've encountered on this venereal runoff of an OS.
 
2013-01-24 01:33:36 PM

Gig103: For those saying you can ignore Metro, that may be true for now


It's not even true at all, it's just excuse-making from White Knights who are lying about how the OS works.

Metro start screen replaced the start menu, there's just no way around that fact that doesn't involve third-party modifications. Unless you learn every possible keyboard shortcut, put shortcuts to everything you'll ever use on the desktop (or launch it from Run) and re-enable quicklaunch I fail to see how you can possibly go about using Windows 8 while completely ignoring Metro. Even doing all that, you'd still have to go through it at least once every time the computer restarts.

You can greatly reduce the affliction the start screen places on you if you take a lot of extra steps to set up your computer, but you can never get rid of it altogether.
 
2013-01-24 01:34:38 PM

Marine1: Another Windows 8 biatching thread?

Well, why not? If normal people can be unwilling to try anything different with computers, why can't the IT crowd?

/the interface is fine
//don't hope for it to change with Windows 9
///you'll get over it


I'll take bash over Windows 8 Metro any day. Nothing like a good command line to really get things done.
 
2013-01-24 01:35:04 PM

MightyPez: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

Basically this. I've tried it in VMs, I tried it as my primary desktop, and the "modern interface" just ends up getting in the way most of the time. As it has been said repeatedly, for touch screens it's great. Hell, even a decent multitouch trackpad it's alright. But for a kb/mouse driven UI it's irritating at best.



that

theurge14: Control Panel and everything else useful from Desktop


it is there. just hidden. open explorer and type control panel into the location bar.

AtomPeepers: Why MS couldn't see that touch-screen consumer tablets vs. corporate desktops have very different needs is beyond me.


Sinofsky.


/caveat: i work for MS on server.
 
2013-01-24 01:38:54 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Gig103: For those saying you can ignore Metro, that may be true for now

It's not even true at all, it's just excuse-making from White Knights who are lying about how the OS works.

Metro start screen replaced the start menu, there's just no way around that fact that doesn't involve third-party modifications. Unless you learn every possible keyboard shortcut, put shortcuts to everything you'll ever use on the desktop (or launch it from Run) and re-enable quicklaunch I fail to see how you can possibly go about using Windows 8 while completely ignoring Metro. Even doing all that, you'd still have to go through it at least once every time the computer restarts.

You can greatly reduce the affliction the start screen places on you if you take a lot of extra steps to set up your computer, but you can never get rid of it altogether.


Is it really that hard to use?

I mean, c'mon. I'm not the brightest guy here by a long shot and even I figured Metro out and adapted to it. Like you guys, I incessantly biatched about it when it was announced. Now I use it just like I did Windows 7, Vista, and XP. No third-party add ons, because there's no real point. You go to the lower-left corner, you click, and ta-da, there are programs. Want a specific one? Either type it in or hit "all applications" to pick it out. It's the start menu stretched across the screen. Nothing else... well, with active display of information on the icons, but still.

It's not hard, and the desktop is still there. I've used it on desktops, laptops, and tablets. I do programming in IDEs and watch Netflix in its application.
 
2013-01-24 01:43:17 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: Rwa2play: SuperT: I don't want a touch interface on my desktop. simple as that.

This. Complete fail on Microsoft's part trying to force people into something instead of letting them make the choice for themselves.

I don't even necessarily think putting a tablet OS on a PC is an intrinsically bad idea, you just can't drop the many feature people actually liked about the PC interface. Giving me alternatives to the Start Menu is fine but I've spent years developing workflow habits around it, forcing me to relearn everything just encourages me to stick with 7 or find a more XP-styled version of Linux already. Or just say "screw it" and hop over to OS X full time.


All of this.
 
2013-01-24 01:43:25 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Marine1: Another Windows 8 biatching thread?

Well, why not? If normal people can be unwilling to try anything different with computers, why can't the IT crowd?

/the interface is fine
//don't hope for it to change with Windows 9
///you'll get over it

I'll take bash over Windows 8 Metro any day. Nothing like a good command line to really get things done.


Then download Cygwin and use cygdrive.
 
2013-01-24 01:47:13 PM
One of the criteria for buying a new laptop for myself was nothing that came with Windows 8 Pre-Installed.

I bought a Alienware M18x for gaming on the road and for the fact it does not have Windows 8 but Windows 7 ultimate.
 
2013-01-24 01:49:06 PM
I bought Windows 8 because I was on a pirate copy of 7. It's not awesome or anything, but it's better under the hood if you can overlook the interface deficiencies.

Also I got it for $15, so there's that.
 
2013-01-24 01:54:06 PM

Marine1: Is it really that hard to use?


It's not about being harder to use, it's about being no better at the very best.

And, yes, losing that nice, compact and effective list of well-ordered items with the press of a key is extremely annoying.

The single biggest beef I have with it is that there was no benefit to changing anything they changed and now you basically have to use two different operating systems built for two entirely different purposes at the same time.

If you're going to try and get me to buy an upgrade to something, I'd expect the sales pitch to be better than "you'll get used to it".
 
2013-01-24 01:59:55 PM

Marine1: Is it really that hard to use?

I mean, c'mon. I'm not the brightest guy here by a long shot and even I figured Metro out and adapted to it.


You have to remember though that fark had a near apocalyptic meltdown over the 'smart' and 'Funny' buttons and every other site redesign, no matter how minor, since the beginning of fark. The majority of us are repulsed by the mere thought of a stranger clipping their fingernails in their cubical. The smell of microwaved food of any nationality is sure to offend some portion of farkers if they happen to be working in the same building. These people do no handle adversity very well.
 
2013-01-24 02:08:43 PM

Egoy3k: Marine1: Is it really that hard to use?

I mean, c'mon. I'm not the brightest guy here by a long shot and even I figured Metro out and adapted to it.

You have to remember though that fark had a near apocalyptic meltdown over the 'smart' and 'Funny' buttons and every other site redesign, no matter how minor, since the beginning of fark. The majority of us are repulsed by the mere thought of a stranger clipping their fingernails in their cubical. The smell of microwaved food of any nationality is sure to offend some portion of farkers if they happen to be working in the same building. These people do no handle adversity very well.


And sometimes change, just for the sake of change, is not a good thing.
 
2013-01-24 02:12:39 PM
After using Win8 for about a month (came with new, non-touchscreen laptop)

+charms bar is actually pretty useful as the bar itself lays things out in a mostly logical manner. It's a good shortcut menu.
+boot times and general performance are quite better than even 7
+no issues gaming (memory leaks seem to be cleaned up much better if I have to force-kill a program)
+program switching seems to be quicker, but that might be from the better machine

-Metro is still somewhat annoying but the most I ever do with it is snap messenger or the music player into a sidebar (when I'm not using iTunes)
-no start button on desktop has confused coworkers/friends using my machine (honestly, there should be an option to at least add a "metro" button there)

Basically it's an okay upgrade if you're on XP or Vista, but if you have Win7 it's not really necessary at all. It does have some UI issues that I hope Microsoft is smart enough to work on with SP1.
 
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