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(Today)   Bioethicist claims obesity can be reduced by shaming fat people instead of embracing them, because your arms just aren't long enough   ( todayhealth.today.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, bioethics, NYU Langone Medical Center, Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center, peer pressures, obesity  
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5222 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 9:35 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-24 11:51:03 AM  
You know how to get a fat chick out of her pants?

A good start is to buy her dinner and a few drinks!

/Thanks, I'll be here all week.
 
2013-01-24 11:51:16 AM  

hitlersbrain: Eating is the only pleasure many Americans have the time and money to enjoy today.


The US has a habit of glorifying the concept of being constantly busy. Busy people don't have time for making their own bread or healthy snacks. People buy pre-sliced baggies of chopped apples and carrots with a sugary caramel or fatty ranch flavored dipping sauce instead of, say, learning how to use their oven to properly make fruit leather or roast a bunch of carrots with a bit of olive oil and rosemary that are tasty enough to not need additional dressing.
 
2013-01-24 11:52:26 AM  

Marcintosh: and EEEEEVRYONE makes fun of the little guy in New York . . . NO you can't drink a hogs head of crappy corn syrup water NO.

We could just tell the factory to stop putting CRAP into our food but that would interfere with stock prices and dividends.
If it's good food then it's expensive.
If it's good food then you don't need or WANT to eat a metric ass load of it every time you sit down.

Hey! Look! DIABETUS- is on the decline!
Heart Surgeons can't make payments on the house in TAOS
Hey Look! You actually out lived your parents!

If you really want a wake up, look at a documentary from the 1970's that has crowd shots
Not a fat person in them nevermind an obese person.
Here, it takes a minute or so but towards the end there's a lot of crowd shots-

Link

aint no fatty's there -
Watch it - no really - WATCH IT! WATCH IT NOW!!
It's the food fool, it's the food.


Its the food in combination with us leading a more sedentary lifestyle, the USA sits at home more than any other nation. There are reasons why major cities have thinner people for the most part, they walk everywhere. When we took our vacations to Paris a couple years ago then NY last year we both lost weight because of all the walking we did, I know think I need to move into a major city. I'm tired of having to drive everywhere, I would rather just walk.
 
2013-01-24 11:52:41 AM  

Thunderpipes: We should step up the shame if anything.

Have a nationwide campaign of shame. We should. Obesity is killing us, and killing our kids. In one generation (maybe two) kids have tripled in obesity rates. The reasons are very simple. Kids don't play enough. They turn into adults who don't play enough. It is not soda, or McDonalds, or anything else. We had worse food when I was a kid. But you could eat 4 hamburgers, then play for 8 hours and still be skinny.

Being fat is not a disease, not a mental condition. It is just being lazy and unmotivated. So shame the crap out of kids from a young age. Sure, you might lose a couple in the process, but you would lose them anyway to fat health problems.


WHAT!? You seriously can't expect children to, to, ... play out side? That is where all those nasty pedophiles, no better that they stay inside and play with the X-Box.

Also they can't play sports they might get hurt.
 
2013-01-24 11:52:57 AM  

thecpt: hitlersbrain: Inexpensive, healthy, TASTY, snack foods that have a decent shelf life.

Apples and oranges. They last well over 2 weeks with or without a fridge. Also, I'm a fan of pb and toast.


They are not very tasty and I highly doubt they last that long. PB is not very healthy (neither is toast). No we need something people really want to eat not something they eat because it's good for them. Not all people are driven to be miserable so douche bags will like them.
 
2013-01-24 11:55:10 AM  

i upped my meds-up yours: CSB: I knew Dan Callahan. He was my neighbor for 10 years.

If he were to shame you, he'd do it warmly. With a genuine Irish twinkle. He is really a kind soul, but harbors no bullshiat.


I wish I could be that way, I always come off blunt and hateful when I don't mean to sound that way. The people who can basically insult you yet sound sincere and helpful have a gift.
 
2013-01-24 11:55:54 AM  

xanadian: And there are genetic conditions that either make people more prone to being fat, or outright can't help it. A lot of those chromosomal abnormalities can cause it (i.e. Angelman syndrome).


A lot of people who have, "genetic conditions" are just fat. You are not special, there is nothing different or exceptional about you. If you control your calorie intake and increase your activity level eventually you will not be fat-as-fatass. SOME people certainly do have genetic defects that result in weight gain. No human I have ever seen who claimed they were naturally or genetically fat could point to any kind of study or a diagnosis and say, "These are the facts that indicate why I am overweight."

Mostly its just unsupported ideas about why they try "so hard" (I've seen the women in my family make attempts to lose weight through exercise and they're pathetic, you spent an hour at the gym and didn't start to sweat) and can't fix the situation that makes them unhappy. "I can't link it back to anything concrete, rather than digging deep and learning something about effort, I will blame something unverifiable and sop my hurt feelings with ice cream."
 
2013-01-24 11:57:47 AM  
Well the "fat acceptance" movements certainly aren't going to reduce obesity...
 
2013-01-24 11:58:12 AM  
Just two things:

- I love the concept of the "free range fat person".
- Bioethicist is 82 years old. My guess is he's getting in a few last good trolls before dying.

/Portion control is really the only thing that ever worked for me.
//And getting off my carcass and moving it around
 
2013-01-24 11:58:34 AM  

kroonermanblack: Thunderpipes: WTF Indeed: Make being fat cost prohibitive. If the fatty wants healthcare he'll need to spend three times as much. If the fatty wants that extra large bucket of fried chicken it'll be $40. Simple economics. No shaming required.

We should.

We make being successful cost prohibitive, being male, being white, why not fat? They pay more for life insurance, why not health insurance?

Maybe you dems can make universal life insurance the next big thing? That would be a hoot.

Can we get a derp crew in here from the Politics tab? A farktard has esecaped again and is derping all over other tabs.


Damn it, again? I knew I should've gotten the cattle prod this morning.
 
2013-01-24 11:58:59 AM  

hitlersbrain: thecpt: hitlersbrain: Inexpensive, healthy, TASTY, snack foods that have a decent shelf life.

Apples and oranges. They last well over 2 weeks with or without a fridge. Also, I'm a fan of pb and toast.

They are not very tasty and I highly doubt they last that long. PB is not very healthy (neither is toast). No we need something people really want to eat not something they eat because it's good for them. Not all people are driven to be miserable so douche bags will like them.


Peanut butter is actually rather healthy, depending on the sort of lifestyle you're leading. Especially the sugar-free sort you can grind yourself at some supermarkets. Apples, on the other hand, have roughly the same amount of carbs as a potato. And oranges, while tasty and full of vitamin-C are also full of natural sugars that can spike blood sugar levels pretty damn quick, something that isn't good for people who are pre-diabetic.
 
2013-01-24 11:59:09 AM  

willfullyobscure: Well, what's it gonna take? You can't play with your kids without getting winded? play a little longer each time. make an effort. take them on a walk. a little kid can do a mile; so can you, and you'll feel better for it. I lost 15 lbs when my first brat started walking just by going to the park every day and walking with him. stay positive m8


I know what it takes. I lost 80 pounds about 10 years ago watching what I eat and exercising. 5 years before that I lost 50 pounds by watching what I was eating and swimming a mile/day AFTER being treated for sleep apnea and waking up with energy (there's a physiological problem that hasn't been mentioned--sleep problems affecting motivation and energy levels). 15 years before that I lost 35 pounds between high school graduation and starting college in the fall by watching what I eat and doing yardwork for the summer. I went into college weighing less than I did when I entered 10th grade.

Every fat person knows that the only real way to lose weight is to eat better and exercise. It comes down to either they don't want to or they can't (although many are arguing that they just don't want to).

Shame won't fix not being able to and shame won't fix not wanting to. When the habit is ingrained since being a child, it's hard to break and easy to slip back into. People farked with my food when I was a kid so I learned to eat it as fast as I could and learned that I couldn't save it for later because someone else would eat it. I learned to hide it and eat it in private. So, like an alcoholic I can be in recovery but if something happens and I slip, I'm farked for a while until I can pull myself back together again. But it isn't shame that gets me to pull myself back up. It's being sick of how I feel.
 
2013-01-24 12:00:08 PM  
"He must not have any contact with actual free-range fat people," she added.

Are they like free ranged chickens?

img.hsmagazine.net
 
2013-01-24 12:01:04 PM  
Telling a fat person that they are disgusting and fat will accomplish nothing, save depressing the ones who already suffer from depression, sending them into a self-medicating binge. A lot of these people need mental health care, considering that several studies have indicated that the brain responds to fat and sugar much the way it responds to heroine.

Also, the fat itself isn't the problem; it's the lifestyle that generates fat people. There are some plump folks who are still pretty healthy, and likewise some skinny people who are in terrible shape. Society needs to focus on encouraging and rewarding good behavior rather than shaming people who already feel pretty shiatty about themselves.
 
2013-01-24 12:01:45 PM  

nickerj1: Halophilic: maggoo: I find it hard to believe that 64% of the US adult population has chromosomal abnormalities.

You need to find another scapegoat.

Maybe it's time we stop using a metric created by a 19th century Beligan not-doctor and gauge I don't know, actual health? "Overweight" on BMI is a joke.

I came to say this. I can't take you seriously when you cite an article that uses BMI.

I agree for more health care costs for unhealthy fat people, as someone else suggested. They do add a lot of costs to the health care industry. However, current mainstream methods for determining whether someone is healthy (ie, giving them a label of "overweight", "obese", "uber obese") based solely on number values of their height and weight is absolutely ludicrous.

Anyone who works out a lot, is military/police, or an athlete will tell you how absurd BMI is. It's completely inaccurate for people of muscular builds.

For instance, this man: Link
[www1.cdn.sherdog.com image 200x300]

Is on the edge of the "obese" rating for BMI. Is that man obese? No. Is he healthy? Yes.

If you do anything related to increasing costs, etc, for the fat people, you had better do it based on a doctor's assessment, a physical test, or something other than BMI, like body fat percentage.

It's the same as BAC, really, which also doesn't account for some types of people to accurately represent whether they're impaired, but that's a story for another day.


Your claim that just because BMI doesn't work for a pro athelete means it should never be used is pretty good grounds for no one taking you seriously. For 99% of the population it works just fine. The people who need to hear about their BMI are not pro atheletes.
 
2013-01-24 12:02:08 PM  

popesballs: Carth: The Angry Hand of God: I assume it is also OK to punch an asshole in the face for not minding their own damn business, correct?

Sure, but since obesity adds around 190 billion a year to health care costs making sure fat people lose weight is everyone's business.

Do we really want to continue down that road? Once we cure the fat epidemic will that fix all our monetary probs... or will there be another boogey man after that?

Seems like this could be a way for Americans to seriously box themselves in and limit freedoms which we otherwise would want to be perceived as cherishing. Hey, it might be that freedom is just too expensive for the 21st cent


Either way you lose some freedom. Either we do something to address obesity and you lose the right to stuff your face or we do nothing and you have to work more to pay for health care for people who want to stuff their face.
 
2013-01-24 12:02:35 PM  

xanadian: Diogenes: WhiskeyBoy: IlGreven: Funny, the same people who laugh at the fatties also laugh at New York for banning extra large Cokes. Which is it?

Both. If you're fat because you can't stop yourself from gulping down 64 fluid ounces of soda every time you stop at a gas station or fast food joint it means you lack self-control. The government protecting you from yourself has also had the negative impact of preventing me (someone WITH self-control) from enjoying a large beverage purchased at a gas station for the duration of a road trip.

Excellent point.  And to bring it back to obesity, it's a complex disorder that can't be solved with something as blunt and general as shaming.

And there are genetic conditions that either make people more prone to being fat, or outright can't help it. A lot of those chromosomal abnormalities can cause it (i.e. Angelman syndrome).


Anyone I've ever seen claiming a "genetic condition" has done so with a bucket of KFC in front of them, or else some other absurdly large portions of food. Your genetics may make you store fat more easily than others, fine whatever, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter if you stuff yourself like a Thanksgiving turduckin.
 
2013-01-24 12:04:17 PM  

Torchsong: Just two things:

- I love the concept of the "free range fat person".
- Bioethicist is 82 years old. My guess is he's getting in a few last good trolls before dying.


And he doesn't even mention how unhealthy it is to be old. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't read about some old geezer dying just because he wasn't young.
 
2013-01-24 12:08:03 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: Anyone I've ever seen claiming a "genetic condition" has done so with a bucket of KFC in front of them, or else some other absurdly large portions of food. Your genetics may make you store fat more easily than others, fine whatever, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter if you stuff yourself like a Thanksgiving turduckin.


Most of the people I know who have actual, real genetic reasons for obesity (thyroid issues, bad PCOS, etc) tend to be the ones who eat healthy, exercise probably not quite as much as they should, and would like to slap the "I've got a genetic condition that keeps me from losing weight so I'm going to eat half a pie and not bother trying" people in the face. They also don't talk about it much.
 
2013-01-24 12:09:22 PM  

Trillian Astra: hitlersbrain: thecpt: hitlersbrain: Inexpensive, healthy, TASTY, snack foods that have a decent shelf life.

Apples and oranges. They last well over 2 weeks with or without a fridge. Also, I'm a fan of pb and toast.

They are not very tasty and I highly doubt they last that long. PB is not very healthy (neither is toast). No we need something people really want to eat not something they eat because it's good for them. Not all people are driven to be miserable so douche bags will like them.

Peanut butter is actually rather healthy, depending on the sort of lifestyle you're leading. Especially the sugar-free sort you can grind yourself at some supermarkets. Apples, on the other hand, have roughly the same amount of carbs as a potato. And oranges, while tasty and full of vitamin-C are also full of natural sugars that can spike blood sugar levels pretty damn quick, something that isn't good for people who are pre-diabetic.


To be precise, peanut butter is a healthy form of fat, and for people without really weird metabolisms, a moderate amount of fat is necessary for health. The key is to see PB as a replacement for some other fat you might be eating - use PB instead of butter or margarine on a sandwich, for instance.

Also, apples and oranges are high in sugar, but the whole fruit also has fiber. Once again, you need a moderate amount of carbs to be healthy - treat fresh fruit as a replacement for, say, candy. (The bulk of the fiber means you'll be full of apples on fewer calories than you would scarfing candy.) Also, don't eat just carbs as a snack - have something with them. To tie it seamlessly together, apple slices and peanut butter make a great snack.

Protein? Eat all you want if it's low fat or very low fat, like chicken or fish, but take it easy on the beef and avoid fried food.
 
2013-01-24 12:09:26 PM  

hitlersbrain: They are not very tasty


bs. they are delicious. I truly eat an apple a day because its the tastiest thing to me, aside from starfruit.

hitlersbrain: I highly doubt they last that long


How are you an adult and not know how long these last? and yes they do.

hitlersbrain: PB is not very healthy (neither is toast).


I'm not talking wunderbread. I'm talking about some healthy 12 or 9 grain which easily lasts 3 weeks in a fridge. And peanut butter is rather healthy especially when its used in this manner as a meal substitute. I weigh 250 and a slice of toast with pb, an apple, and a carrot can fill in as my lunch. For people looking for healthier lunch alternatives that are quick, cheap, and easy I highly suggest doing things like this. The pb gives you the protein to have a "full" feeling that lasts.

Trying to give thoughtful substitutes that actually exist, rather make excuses for there not being healthy chili cheese fries.
 
2013-01-24 12:11:04 PM  

Moonfisher: Telling a fat person that they are disgusting and fat will accomplish nothing, save depressing the ones who already suffer from depression, sending them into a self-medicating binge. A lot of these people need mental health care, considering that several studies have indicated that the brain responds to fat and sugar much the way it responds to heroine.

Also, the fat itself isn't the problem; it's the lifestyle that generates fat people. There are some plump folks who are still pretty healthy, and likewise some skinny people who are in terrible shape. Society needs to focus on encouraging and rewarding good behavior rather than shaming people who already feel pretty shiatty about themselves.


Zelron: I'm a big fat guy. Shame doesn't do it. I know.
I already feel ashamed that I have to ask for a seatbelt extender on a flight.
I already feel ashamed that I can't run around with my kids in the yard for more than 3 seconds without getting exhausted.
I already feel ashamed that I take up more than one seat on the subway.
I already feel ashamed that I can't walk more than a couple of blocks without my back screaming "What the fark are you doing to me?"
I already feel ashamed that I can't walk into any clothing store and expect that they'll have something that will fit.

Smoking vs. Obesity: You don't have to smoke, you do have to eat. Declining rates for smoking are primarily due to keeping them away from kids until they're old enough to know better. Just like with smoking though, someone has to want to quit. If they don't want to quit, no amount of shame will improve the situation...r.


Behold. Here is a man who's quality of life is embarassingly degraded by the problems he has created for himself. From a proud species of hunter-gatherer that could walk other animals to death as a hunting strategy he has graduated to, "Cannot walk 200 feet without pain, and cannot play with own children."

Treating the insanely fat like there's something wrong with them has nothing to do with them. There's nothing I can do for a guy who CAN'T WALK WITHOUT PAIN and hasn't gotten the idea that he needs to fix this or die trying. It has to do with making sure that future generations know that becoming... that is disgusting and not acceptable. You can't really teach them that if they eat that snack cake some day they might have joint pain. The negative feedback of everyone laughing at lil'chunk for having just one more cupcake every lunch will keep most of them in line.
 
2013-01-24 12:11:21 PM  
So they want to take a group of people that deals with shame and emotional upset by eating... and shame them and cause them emotional upset? To get them to stop eating? This sounds like "fark nymphos until they stop being nymphos". Brilliant!
 
2013-01-24 12:14:00 PM  

ph0rk: Expolaris: 2 years later, close to 200 miles of walking, then jogging, and now running and i'm down 130 lbs (and still going), have a happy and successful career, and have met a woman who has also lost over 100lbs. We are Team Healthy.

200 miles in 2 years? His math must be wrong or he has tapeworms.


i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-24 12:16:45 PM  
As a super fatty I have mixed feelings on this. I think those of us that are already fat it won't help much, but might encourage younger people to not follow our path. That's what I think happened with smokers. Most people that have been smoking forever won't quit, but there aren't as many people joining the ranks. However if it goes to far you will get the opposite effect.

/boring personal story

I come from a very abusive family and we as kids were not allowed any cokes/candy/sugary items as they were deemed bad for us. They meant well, but by denying sweets it caused the cravings to be worse. As a teenager I bought some Oreos and didn't finish them while at work so I brought them home, and got a broken nose as punishment. Now I have the mentality of eating an entire bag of M&Ms so there are no leftovers, and my house always has junk food in it since it was denied as a kid.
 
2013-01-24 12:18:39 PM  

Zazzy: nickerj1: Halophilic: maggoo: I find it hard to believe that 64% of the US adult population has chromosomal abnormalities.

You need to find another scapegoat.

Maybe it's time we stop using a metric created by a 19th century Beligan not-doctor and gauge I don't know, actual health? "Overweight" on BMI is a joke.

I came to say this. I can't take you seriously when you cite an article that uses BMI.

I agree for more health care costs for unhealthy fat people, as someone else suggested. They do add a lot of costs to the health care industry. However, current mainstream methods for determining whether someone is healthy (ie, giving them a label of "overweight", "obese", "uber obese") based solely on number values of their height and weight is absolutely ludicrous.

Anyone who works out a lot, is military/police, or an athlete will tell you how absurd BMI is. It's completely inaccurate for people of muscular builds.

For instance, this man: Link
[www1.cdn.sherdog.com image 200x300]

Is on the edge of the "obese" rating for BMI. Is that man obese? No. Is he healthy? Yes.

If you do anything related to increasing costs, etc, for the fat people, you had better do it based on a doctor's assessment, a physical test, or something other than BMI, like body fat percentage.

It's the same as BAC, really, which also doesn't account for some types of people to accurately represent whether they're impaired, but that's a story for another day.

Your claim that just because BMI doesn't work for a pro athelete means it should never be used is pretty good grounds for no one taking you seriously. For 99% of the population it works just fine. The people who need to hear about their BMI are not pro atheletes.


I love that one too. "Oh is Vince Wilfork obese? He's a pro football player!

Let me tell you something about those guys. They're incredibly fast and strong and yes heavy, and about ten to fifteen years after they retire if they're REALLY lucky walking just hurts sometimes. Was it unhealthy for the Fridge to be 400 pounds? YES! YES IT WAS!
 
2013-01-24 12:19:18 PM  

Super_pope: Behold. Here is a man who's quality of life is embarassingly degraded by the problems he has created for himself. From a proud species of hunter-gatherer that could walk other animals to death as a hunting strategy he has graduated to, "Cannot walk 200 feet without pain, and cannot play with own children."

Treating the insanely fat like there's something wrong with them has nothing to do with them. There's nothing I can do for a guy who CAN'T WALK WITHOUT PAIN and hasn't gotten the idea that he needs to fix this or die trying. It has to do with making sure that future generations know that becoming... that is disgusting and not acceptable. You can't really teach them that if they eat that snack cake some day they might have joint pain. The negative feedback of everyone laughing at lil'chunk for having just one more cupcake every lunch will keep most of them in line.


Pretty much sums it up. The funny thing is that everyone dies. When I'm gone, what I was won't matter. When you're gone, neither will you. No matter how much fun you pack into your life, once it's over, that's it. You won't be able to look back at the good times, because you'll be gone. For a few years people will think about you, but then they'll die off. And pretty soon you're some obscure relative (if that) on some family tree.

The point is that more shame isn't the answer.
 
2013-01-24 12:19:55 PM  

Super_pope: The negative feedback of everyone laughing at lil'chunk for having just one more cupcake every lunch will keep most of them in line.


Yeah, because no one's doing that to them now. Sure. See, in the past, that whole "or die trying" is an option when you add shame to it. Some actually kill themselves. But, of course, that's probably acceptable to you, as well.

What is wrong with you?

treesloth: So they want to take a group of people that deals with shame and emotional upset by eating... and shame them and cause them emotional upset? To get them to stop eating? This sounds like "fark nymphos until they stop being nymphos". Brilliant!


Because it's worked so well in the past. Tell me, what colored symbol will obese people be required to sew to their clothing to ensure that no one treats them as though they belong? I mean, hell, we've used everything from scarlet "A"s to gold six-pointed stars - I'm sure there's a brightly colored symbol that still remains which can be used to brand fat people as "not one of us".

It amazes me how many assholes there still are in the world happy to pick up the first rock.
 
2013-01-24 12:20:17 PM  

stonicus: DuncanMhor: big pig peaches: I noticed many fatties are quick enough to mock those with healthy lifestyles. Turnabout is fair play.

Oh please. Give us an example

/turnabout is fair play if you are six

I do it... when I am dragging my ass out of bed, shuffling to the kitchen for a soda, lighting a cigarette, I'll see people running and jogging around the lake already. I talk shiat about them in my mind. It's the whole sour grapes thing, finding any justification for why I am right and they are wrong. "Well fark, if that's what it takes to be healthy, screw it. Why spend an accumulated 10 years of solid work and exercise to only live an extra 5 years? I have better self image and self esteem than they do because I don't feel the need to do that. I don't have to waste all this time and energy and effort in my life just so I look good in one outfit for a few hours at that party next month" Anything and everything to justify my own existence. And it's not like the person jogging around the lake is doing it for anyone other than themselves. I seriously doubt they're all smug and thinking "HA! I'm making everyone else feel bad about themselves because I am jogging so early in the morning! Look how much better I am than everyone else!" No, they're just doing their own thing and it has nothing to do with me.

The fact is, I like to eat and I farking hate to exercise. I hate feeling like I am not accomplishing anything. Exercise does not equal instant results, so it's VERY easy to get frustrated and think it is worthless. So, I've found a compromise. Other than grocery shopping, I am not allowed to drive after work. I make myself walk everywhere. Now, my walking comes with the immediate reward I am looking for. It may as simple as just reaching a destination (a bar, my friend's house, etc...) , but it feels infinitely more rewarding than a treadmill or walking aimlessly in a circle around the lake.

That being said, fark those early morning joggers still. =)


I don't tend to hate on the healthy, much. I do however do the walking everywhere that i possibly can thing. Not having a car at all helps.

/this frigid weather is NOT helping at all. I don't go out every day now. I wait til I have no choice.
//-36 celsius! Brrrrrr
 
2013-01-24 12:23:09 PM  

hutchkc: and my house always has junk food in it since it was denied as a kid.


Wtf is your problem, honestly? How hard is it to not buy something? Just say, "You know what ,I won't buy those," and then don't buy them. I'm not even saying, "Don't eat that." Maybe that's too hard. Are you going to have some kind of problem if you just leave your money in your wallet and don't buy the thing at all? I just don't understand how literally just not going out of your way to purchase something you know is harming you can be a problem.

Christ.

On the first part, cool. Glad you can look at that part of the equation and understand it critically.
 
2013-01-24 12:24:10 PM  

Mithiwithi: To be precise, peanut butter is a healthy form of fat, and for people without really weird metabolisms, a moderate amount of fat is necessary for health. The key is to see PB as a replacement for some other fat you might be eating - use PB instead of butter or margarine on a sandwich, for instance.
Also, apples and oranges are high in sugar, but the whole fruit also has fiber. Once again, you need a moderate amount of carbs to be healthy - treat fresh fruit as a replacement for, say, candy. (The bulk of the fiber means you'll be full of apples on fewer calories than you would scarfing candy.) Also, don't eat just carbs as a snack - have something with them. To tie it seamlessly together, apple slices and peanut butter make a great snack. Protein? Eat all you want if it's low fat or very low fat, like chicken or fish, but take it easy on the beef and avoid fried food.


You could also eat avocado or sunflower seeds for a fibre boost without the unnecessary carbs of an apple*, but that's just a personal preference from someone who leads a lifestyle that keeps her from developing the diabetes everyone else in her family seems to have. Peanut butter really is fantastic stuff, for me. A PB&Banana sandwich on good dark bread will keep me full for ages.

*roughly 25 carbs per medium apple; a cup of roasted sunflower seeds will give you the same amount of fibre without as much sugar, plus it's less messy (again, personal preference)
 
2013-01-24 12:24:14 PM  

thecpt: hitlersbrain: They are not very tasty

bs. they are delicious. I truly eat an apple a day because its the tastiest thing to me, aside from starfruit.

hitlersbrain: I highly doubt they last that long

How are you an adult and not know how long these last? and yes they do.

hitlersbrain: PB is not very healthy (neither is toast).

I'm not talking wunderbread. I'm talking about some healthy 12 or 9 grain which easily lasts 3 weeks in a fridge. And peanut butter is rather healthy especially when its used in this manner as a meal substitute. I weigh 250 and a slice of toast with pb, an apple, and a carrot can fill in as my lunch. For people looking for healthier lunch alternatives that are quick, cheap, and easy I highly suggest doing things like this. The pb gives you the protein to have a "full" feeling that lasts.

Trying to give thoughtful substitutes that actually exist, rather make excuses for there not being healthy chili cheese fries.


Skip the fies but eat the chii.

I use equal parts:

Lowfat beef or pork
Chilis and green peppers
Beans
Tomato
Water

Fridge or freezer, it lasts for a while, and is easy to make portions.

Skip the rice and or crackers you fattie.
 
2013-01-24 12:24:38 PM  

Super_pope: Wtf is your problem, honestly? How hard is it to not buy something? Just say, "You know what ,I won't buy those,"


Do you say the same thing to alcoholics? Do you say the same thing to other addicts? Don't kid yourself, it is an addiction.
 
2013-01-24 12:25:10 PM  

Super_pope: Zazzy: nickerj1: Halophilic: maggoo: I find it hard to believe that 64% of the US adult population has chromosomal abnormalities.

You need to find another scapegoat.

Maybe it's time we stop using a metric created by a 19th century Beligan not-doctor and gauge I don't know, actual health? "Overweight" on BMI is a joke.

I came to say this. I can't take you seriously when you cite an article that uses BMI.

I agree for more health care costs for unhealthy fat people, as someone else suggested. They do add a lot of costs to the health care industry. However, current mainstream methods for determining whether someone is healthy (ie, giving them a label of "overweight", "obese", "uber obese") based solely on number values of their height and weight is absolutely ludicrous.

Anyone who works out a lot, is military/police, or an athlete will tell you how absurd BMI is. It's completely inaccurate for people of muscular builds.

For instance, this man: Link
[www1.cdn.sherdog.com image 200x300]

Is on the edge of the "obese" rating for BMI. Is that man obese? No. Is he healthy? Yes.

If you do anything related to increasing costs, etc, for the fat people, you had better do it based on a doctor's assessment, a physical test, or something other than BMI, like body fat percentage.

It's the same as BAC, really, which also doesn't account for some types of people to accurately represent whether they're impaired, but that's a story for another day.

Your claim that just because BMI doesn't work for a pro athelete means it should never be used is pretty good grounds for no one taking you seriously. For 99% of the population it works just fine. The people who need to hear about their BMI are not pro atheletes.

I love that one too. "Oh is Vince Wilfork obese? He's a pro football player!

Let me tell you something about those guys. They're incredibly fast and strong and yes heavy, and about ten to fifteen years after they retire if they're REALLY lucky walking just hurts ...


Mmmmmmm Swiss-cheese brains.

/fava beans
 
2013-01-24 12:25:46 PM  

Zelron: Super_pope: Wtf is your problem, honestly? How hard is it to not buy something? Just say, "You know what ,I won't buy those,"

Do you say the same thing to alcoholics? Do you say the same thing to other addicts? Don't kid yourself, it is an addiction.


This.
 
2013-01-24 12:29:31 PM  

FormlessOne:

Because it's worked so well in the past. Tell me, what colored symbol will obese people be required to sew to their clothing to ensure that no one treats them as though they belong? I mean, hell, we've used everything from scarlet "A"s to gold six-pointed stars - I'm sure there's a brightly colored symbol that still remains which can be used to brand fat people as "not one of us".

It amazes me how many assholes there still are in the world happy to pick up the first rock.


Don't be hyperbolic. You don't need to mark fat people you can tell just by looking at them.
 
2013-01-24 12:30:09 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Skip the fies but eat the chii.

I use equal parts:

Lowfat beef or pork
Chilis and green peppers
Beans
Tomato
Water

Fridge or freezer, it lasts for a while, and is easy to make portions.

Skip the rice and or crackers you fattie.


it was an example... but yes. We remove the solid tomato and put in potato slices sparingly
 
2013-01-24 12:31:58 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Beans


BZZZZZZZZT!!! Flag on the play! 10 yard penalty, loss of down!

It's chili, not chili con garbonzos!

/Apropos of nothing, of course
 
2013-01-24 12:32:12 PM  

Super_pope: I just don't understand how literally just not going out of your way to purchase something you know is harming you can be a problem.


Sugar and carbs can be addictive, especially to someone who emotionally eats. It IS hard for people to stop. Just like it's hard for people to stop smoking or drinking. It takes more than just willpower to stop buying junk food, you have to be in the right frame of mind to make that change. Sort of a can't quit til you're ready approach.
 
2013-01-24 12:32:12 PM  

FormlessOne: Super_pope: The negative feedback of everyone laughing at lil'chunk for having just one more cupcake every lunch will keep most of them in line.

Yeah, because no one's doing that to them now. Sure. See, in the past, that whole "or die trying" is an option when you add shame to it. Some actually kill themselves. But, of course, that's probably acceptable to you, as well.

What is wrong with you?

treesloth: So they want to take a group of people that deals with shame and emotional upset by eating... and shame them and cause them emotional upset? To get them to stop eating? This sounds like "fark nymphos until they stop being nymphos". Brilliant!

Because it's worked so well in the past. Tell me, what colored symbol will obese people be required to sew to their clothing to ensure that no one treats them as though they belong? I mean, hell, we've used everything from scarlet "A"s to gold six-pointed stars - I'm sure there's a brightly colored symbol that still remains which can be used to brand fat people as "not one of us".

It amazes me how many assholes there still are in the world happy to pick up the first rock.


All that shiat you say doesn't work worked REAL well for a long time. Go watch Heathers sometime. That movie is from 1988. ~15 years old. Martha Dumptruck isn't even noteworthy by today's standards of fatness. How bout Chunk from the goonies. That kid would have to be 3 times the size he is to be the fat kid today. That movie is from 85. We're on a runaway fatso train to lard town and some of that can be traced back to the fact that now its just so mean to look down on people-of-gelatenousness.
 
2013-01-24 12:32:42 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Zelron: Super_pope: Wtf is your problem, honestly? How hard is it to not buy something? Just say, "You know what ,I won't buy those,"

Do you say the same thing to alcoholics? Do you say the same thing to other addicts? Don't kid yourself, it is an addiction.

This.


And the worst part is, treatment for addiction (or mental disorders in general) isn't cheap, and most health insurance plans don't cover it. I know this first hand. It's farking frustrating.
 
2013-01-24 12:34:22 PM  

Super_pope: We're on a runaway fatso train to lard town and some of that can be traced back to the fact that now its just so mean to look down on people-of-gelatenousness.


I have no problem with you looking down on me.

The point is, more shame isn't the answer.
 
2013-01-24 12:36:27 PM  

Thunderpipes: Bullying works. Always has. It is an evolutionary instinct. Taking it away just makes losers not want to improve.


As a former fat person, I beg to differ. I got in shape because I convinced myself of the positives. People making fun of me only made me want to withdraw and eat even more.
 
2013-01-24 12:38:11 PM  

santadog: There are NO lazy skinny people.


Bull. shiat.
 
2013-01-24 12:39:45 PM  

Super_pope: All that shiat you say doesn't work worked REAL well for a long time. Go watch Heathers sometime. That movie is from 1988. ~15 years old. Martha Dumptruck isn't even noteworthy by today's standards of fatness. How bout Chunk from the goonies. That kid would have to be 3 times the size he is to be the fat kid today. That movie is from 85. We're on a runaway fatso train to lard town and some of that can be traced back to the fact that now its just so mean to look down on people-of-gelatenousness.


Martha Dumptruck isn't even noteworthy? Maybe it's been a while since you've seen it, but she was quite huge.
www.x-entertainment.com

Here is what modern day people call "fat".
thintimately.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-24 12:39:59 PM  

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: StoPPeRmobile: Beans

BZZZZZZZZT!!! Flag on the play! 10 yard penalty, loss of down!

It's chili, not chili con garbonzos!

/Apropos of nothing, of course


You remind me of me complaining about pizza.

Pizza is perfection of simplicity. Sauce, cheese, and bread yet some morans want to put pineapple on it. WTF!
 
2013-01-24 12:40:05 PM  
Zelron: So they can afford [cigarettes] since they're buying them (...) My wife would go to the gym and spend 30 minutes on a stair master every day and was still pretty heavy. Exercise doesn't work for everyone.

The cigarette analogy is useful. The obese similarly warp their priorities concerning eating; for poor smokers it's about dysfunctionally overspending what little money they have and for the obese it's about how they insanely overeat beyond their needs. It is foolish to think that 30 minutes of daily exercise can offset, much less overcome, ANYONE's obesity. Obesity is caused by how much one eats, not how little one exercises.

Zelron: Thunderpipes: Imagine how many problems could be solved if people stopped making excuses?

Getting back to the main point, the shaming isn't going to help. We're already shamed up the wazoo.


You've got it backwards; people make excuses because they're ashamed.

bighairyguy: He sounds like he wants to justify his need to be a bully.

You sound fat.
 
2013-01-24 12:40:15 PM  

xynix: Eating a good diet also beats obesity..


Agreed, but the problem is, what constitues a "good diet" may vary widely from person to person and the one-size fits all advice the medical establishment is giving people makes the problem worse.  People who frequent these kinds of threads  have heard this story before, but in my life I have been fat (300-320),  holy shiat I'm fat (370), and currently "yeah you could stand to lose 20 lbs" (about 240).  In the time I went from 300-370 I was working out every day (aerobic exercise for 1/2 hour weights for the other half) and eating a restricted calorie, low-fat diet.  It left me pre-diabetic and with a soaring blood pressure.

I ignored medical advice and did a low carb diet where I made sure my carbs were 40 or less, my protien was over 100 gm/day and I was free to eat as much dietary fat as I cared to.  In three months I went from 370 to 285, and in six months  I was down under 260, with magnificent cholesterol, and a BP that was lower by 60 points on both numbers (which should tell you how high it was).   For various reasons I left off eating low carb for about 10 years and kept off all but about 25 lbs or so.  Recently I re-embraced the low carb thing because the Type II diabetes I was in the process of developing  over a decade ago finally came creeping back.   At about 60-80 carbs/day I've dropped another 45 lbs in the last two months, and I haven't weighed less than this since my Freshman year of HS. (i'm in my 40's)

The point being that if I hadn't ignored medical advice, I'd almost certainly be dead now.  The human metabolism, and the complex interplay of our endocrine system is just barely beginning to be understood at this point (to say nothing of the effects of the different strains of symbiotic bacteria in our guts without which we could not even digest food).  "Fat shaming" is all well and good, but perhaps modern medicicine could first figure out WTF we are supposed to eat and in what proportions, before condemning us all for "eating wrong"
 
2013-01-24 12:41:08 PM  

Trillian Astra: emotionally eats


Key word here, emotionally. You are not chemically dependent. You do not get the shakes if you only liquify one bag of gummy bears before injecting them into your ass because you already have too many rainbow colored track marks on your arms. You are fighting a learned behavior that you have conditioned yourself to "want" to do. The only thing you are "struggling" with is the routine you have created for yourself. Its hard to break a routine, I understand that. When you're at a place where it HURTS YOU TO WALK just fighting the negative reinforcement of the physical pain of your fatness so that you can get that last palate of chocolate bars loaded into your SUV must be a herculean effort. Wouldn't it just be easier on you to not walk through the store to the candy aisle? You'd sure think so...
 
2013-01-24 12:41:43 PM  

Super_pope: Zazzy: nickerj1: Halophilic: maggoo: I find it hard to believe that 64% of the US adult population has chromosomal abnormalities.

You need to find another scapegoat.

Maybe it's time we stop using a metric created by a 19th century Beligan not-doctor and gauge I don't know, actual health? "Overweight" on BMI is a joke.

I came to say this. I can't take you seriously when you cite an article that uses BMI.

I agree for more health care costs for unhealthy fat people, as someone else suggested. They do add a lot of costs to the health care industry. However, current mainstream methods for determining whether someone is healthy (ie, giving them a label of "overweight", "obese", "uber obese") based solely on number values of their height and weight is absolutely ludicrous.

Anyone who works out a lot, is military/police, or an athlete will tell you how absurd BMI is. It's completely inaccurate for people of muscular builds.

For instance, this man: Link
[www1.cdn.sherdog.com image 200x300]

Is on the edge of the "obese" rating for BMI. Is that man obese? No. Is he healthy? Yes.

If you do anything related to increasing costs, etc, for the fat people, you had better do it based on a doctor's assessment, a physical test, or something other than BMI, like body fat percentage.

It's the same as BAC, really, which also doesn't account for some types of people to accurately represent whether they're impaired, but that's a story for another day.

Your claim that just because BMI doesn't work for a pro athelete means it should never be used is pretty good grounds for no one taking you seriously. For 99% of the population it works just fine. The people who need to hear about their BMI are not pro atheletes.

I love that one too. "Oh is Vince Wilfork obese? He's a pro football player!

Let me tell you something about those guys. They're incredibly fast and strong and yes heavy, and about ten to fifteen years after they retire if they're REALLY lucky walking just hurts ...


True, even some pro atheletes are harming themselves through unhealthy weight. Another argument FOR the use of BMI. It almost always works. There are definitely exceptions, but they are so very rare.
 
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