OK...if you're going to do this then DO IT RIGHT!  Spend some money and time on the goddamn script!  Make it a decent Sci-Fi story and not a CGI catch-phrase festival.

Don't fugg this up!

Elvis_Bogart: OK...if you're going to do this then DO IT RIGHT!  Spend some money and time on the goddamn script!  Make it a decent Sci-Fi story and not a CGI catch-phrase festival.

Don't fugg this up!

Do you like having hope just to see it dashed against the wall? You strike me as a possible masochist.

Don't be silly, that would require them to have made a 3 and a 4.

I have carefully constructed a mental world in which there is only one Terminator movie, the first one, and all of the others never happened.

Pocket Ninja: I have carefully constructed a mental world in which there is only one Terminator movie, the first one, and all of the others never happened.

Oh come on. I liked Terminator 2.

Here's how you fix the Terminator franchise:

First, let's pretend Salvation is not canon so we don't have to follow it up. It wasn't a bad movie, it was just a stupid story.

Fans of the Terminator franchise have been wanting to see a full-length feature film based on the gritty, nightmarish future scenes of the first film for 25 and what did Salvation do? Not an out and out military struggle under the cover of night against uncompromising machines intent on wiping out all humanity, but a sunny daylight soap opera jaunt by a confused android looking for his place in the world. The machine who learns to love humanity. The machine who doesn't know he's a machine. As if we didn't get enough of this "are they human?" tripe from BSG, now we have cylons in the farking Terminator Universe.

And the way it played out was dumb, hokey, cliched, and obvious, and an insult to the intelligence of any Sci-Fi fan. If I wanted introspective replicant bullshiat, I'd go watch Bladerunner.

fark you, McG.

Okay, so next film is a WAR FILM. A REAL gritty war film, with Private Ryan/Band of Brothers direction and cinematography. Set in the future that we are familiar with: Colonies of human stragglers gasping for survival, night raids, big hulking HKs, and phase plasma rifles in the 40 watt range. Straight forward plot about a campaign/mission (either led by John Connor, or ordered by him) to infiltrate a T-800 factory and priority 1: Capture it, cut it off from skynet and reprogram its hardware for the war effort and if that's not possible, priority 2: Destroy it, thereby eliminating any presence of Skynet in the area and earning the humans a little piece of real estate to rebuild their civilization (for awhile). That's it. No wishy washy bullshiat, no human interest drama, no more "machines trying to understand humanity", and no human personifications of skynet. It's a computer, it has mathematically calculated humanity's termination -- it does not require a rosy rationale for its decision.

Now, someone dig up the corpse of Steven Ambrose and let's make this happen.

He will look as spry as Harrison "Where's my walker" Ford in Indy 3.

Cythraul: Pocket Ninja: I have carefully constructed a mental world in which there is only one Terminator movie, the first one, and all of the others never happened.

Oh come on. I liked Terminator 2.

I even liked Terminator 3. Yeah, it had some silliness, *BUT* the idea that Judgement Day was pretty much inevitable is a good one, and I especially like the ending.

Terminator Salvation? Meh. Orange and blue crapfest.

So Pixar is going to handle all his scenes?

Terminator 2's entire premise violated the one main rule that the story had set up in the first movie regarding time travel. I can forgive a certain degree of laziness and shortcutting in a movie on the part of its writers, but past a certain point it becomes unacceptable.

I just want to hear them explain how a robot aged 25 years.

Pocket Ninja: Terminator 2's entire premise violated the one main rule that the story had set up in the first movie regarding time travel

What, when Reese said "I can't. Nobody goes home, nobody else comes through. It's just him and me."?

Not much of a plot hole. So they thought they destroyed the only time displacement equipment in existence. Skynet built another.

Ishkur: What, when Reese said

No, when Reese explained that only living tissue could travel back through time. Which was why he not only arrived naked but also had no effective weapons with which to fight the terminator. Because, hey, if he'd been able to bring back real weapons, that would have been a pretty boring movie, right? Lie in ambush, wait for the terminator to appear, ZAM! Ray gun, arnold's disintegrated. They even spent time explaining why the Terminator was able to go back...because, yes, he was a machine, but he was encased in living flesh. Which means that Reese could have brought back weapons if they'd been inserted into him, but whatever.

But then what do they go and send through time in Terminator 2? A farking robot made of liquid metal. Liquid farking metal. Yeah.

Pocket Ninja: Ishkur: What, when Reese said

No, when Reese explained that only living tissue could travel back through time. Which was why he not only arrived naked but also had no effective weapons with which to fight the terminator. Because, hey, if he'd been able to bring back real weapons, that would have been a pretty boring movie, right? Lie in ambush, wait for the terminator to appear, ZAM! Ray gun, arnold's disintegrated. They even spent time explaining why the Terminator was able to go back...because, yes, he was a machine, but he was encased in living flesh. Which means that Reese could have brought back weapons if they'd been inserted into him, but whatever.

But then what do they go and send through time in Terminator 2? A farking robot made of liquid metal. Liquid farking metal. Yeah.

If we are going to get all nit picky they would of just sent the terminator back to the 1800's and let him squash john's great great great grandpa with his bare hands in some cabin in the woods somewhere.

Ishkur: Pocket Ninja: Terminator 2's entire premise violated the one main rule that the story had set up in the first movie regarding time travel

What, when Reese said "I can't. Nobody goes home, nobody else comes through. It's just him and me."?

Not much of a plot hole. So they thought they destroyed the only time displacement equipment in existence. Skynet built another.

Perhaps it's that only living tissue, or metal surrounded by living tissue, could be sent through, and the T-1000 was made of "liquid metal". This could be back-rationalized by having the T-1000 come through with a living skin that is either shed or just absorbed. All you need is a coating of living material. But if that works, you could surgically plant advanced weapons inside a living organism, and just kill it.

As the Granpa5000 infiltration unit.

Anyways the biggest plot hole of the entire franchise is how the hell the terminator was designed off the remains of the one sent back in time.  They definitely divided by 0 on that one.

NickelP: If we are going to get all nit picky they would of just sent the terminator back to the 1800's and let him squash john's great great great grandpa with his bare hands in some cabin in the woods somewhere.

Well, yeah. But I'm willing to ignore many logic flaws for an entertaining time-travel movie. You have to or they all become stupid at some level. But when the story creators establish a bright-line rule for their story world, then damnit, they need to follow it.

Pocket Ninja: No, when Reese explained that only living tissue could travel back through time. Which was why he not only arrived naked but also had no effective weapons with which to fight the terminator. Because, hey, if he'd been able to bring back real weapons, that would have been a pretty boring movie, right? Lie in ambush, wait for the terminator to appear, ZAM! Ray gun, arnold's disintegrated. They even spent time explaining why the Terminator was able to go back...because, yes, he was a machine, but he was encased in living flesh. Which means that Reese could have brought back weapons if they'd been inserted into him, but whatever.

But then what do they go and send through time in Terminator 2? A farking robot made of liquid metal. Liquid farking metal. Yeah.


Details are hazy on how exactly the time displacement equipment works, but given the massive amounts of static charge generated by the field at the destination point, I would imagine that it involves surrounding the object with intense electro-magnetic fields which, as we all know, is hazardous to circuitry and anything electronic and/or metal. So the only way a Terminator could go would be completely incased in something non-metallic. But then why no clothing, which EM fields would have no affect on either? ....not sure.

Reese is no scientist so doesn't know how it works ("I didn't built the thing"), so his summation that "nothing dead will go" might not be accurate. It's not that nothing dead will go, it's that nothing non-biological will go (after all, your hair and the surface area of your skin is technically dead). There are all sorts of ways around this plothole, it's not that aggravating.

Now, as for the T-1000: Well, since mimetic pollyalloy doesn't exist, it can be anything the plot wants it to be, and if it can mimic living tissue or do something to protect the T-1000 circuitry from the EM field then what's the issue?

It would be pretty funny to watch.

Arnold: "John Kahner...why....*gasp*....why are you running so fahst?"
John: "He's coming! We've got to move!"
Arnold: "*gasp*...what was dat, 50 yards? Does anyone have some oxygen?"
John: "Get up! We've got to keep moving!"
Arnold: "Hold on...hold on....*gasp*...is my makeup smearing?"
John: "What?"
Arnold: "LOOK AT ME! Does my makeup look runny? I feel like it's runny."
John: "I command you to run."
Arnold: "Dat doesn't work anymore. Your wife is in charge. She says she wants you to do the dishes more in the future."
John: "Maybe we should have gotten Robert Patrick to come back for this one."
Arnold: "I heard dat."
John: "Here, load these grenades."
Arnold: "Agh. Dat hurts! My hands are so sore from signing my new book, Total Recall."
John: "What? Hurry up load this. I can't hold him off any longer."
Arnold: "Have you read it?"
John: "Read what?"
Arnold: "Total Recall. It's about how I cheated on my wife. You should read it."

Ishkur: it's not that aggravating.

I disagree. It is very aggravating. I've killed three people over this very thing.

bdub77: It would be pretty funny to watch.

Arnold: "John Kahner...why....*gasp*....why are you running so fahst?"
John: "He's coming! We've got to move!"
Arnold: "*gasp*...what was dat, 50 yards? Does anyone have some oxygen?"
John: "Get up! We've got to keep moving!"
Arnold: "Hold on...hold on....*gasp*...is my makeup smearing?"
John: "What?"
Arnold: "LOOK AT ME! Does my makeup look runny? I feel like it's runny."
John: "I command you to run."
Arnold: "Dat doesn't work anymore. Your wife is in charge. She says she wants you to do the dishes more in the future."
John: "Maybe we should have gotten Robert Patrick to come back for this one."
Arnold: "I heard dat."
John: "Here, load these grenades."
Arnold: "Agh. Dat hurts! My hands are so sore from signing my new book, Total Recall."
John: "What? Hurry up load this. I can't hold him off any longer."
Arnold: "Have you read it?"
John: "Read what?"
Arnold: "Total Recall. It's about how I cheated on my wife. You should read it."

They should remake kindergarten cop where he finds out at the end that they are all his kids

Pocket Ninja: Ishkur: it's not that aggravating.

I disagree. It is very aggravating. I've killed three people over this very thing.

I really hope one of them wasn't John Connor. Because if so, you just ruined everything.

NickelP: bdub77: It would be pretty funny to watch.

Arnold: "John Kahner...why....*gasp*....why are you running so fahst?"
John: "He's coming! We've got to move!"
Arnold: "*gasp*...what was dat, 50 yards? Does anyone have some oxygen?"
John: "Get up! We've got to keep moving!"
Arnold: "Hold on...hold on....*gasp*...is my makeup smearing?"
John: "What?"
Arnold: "LOOK AT ME! Does my makeup look runny? I feel like it's runny."
John: "I command you to run."
Arnold: "Dat doesn't work anymore. Your wife is in charge. She says she wants you to do the dishes more in the future."
John: "Maybe we should have gotten Robert Patrick to come back for this one."
Arnold: "I heard dat."
John: "Here, load these grenades."
Arnold: "Agh. Dat hurts! My hands are so sore from signing my new book, Total Recall."
John: "What? Hurry up load this. I can't hold him off any longer."
Arnold: "Have you read it?"
John: "Read what?"
Arnold: "Total Recall. It's about how I cheated on my wife. You should read it."

They should remake kindergarten cop where he finds out at the end that they are all his kids

You owe me a new keyboard.

Pocket Ninja: Ishkur: it's not that aggravating.
I disagree. It is very aggravating. I've killed three people over this very thing.

You might want to see a therapist about that. I know a guy, Dr. Silberman. He's worked with people like you.

Hiding from the cold, I watched T2 last night and was struck by how awful it was.  The Disney-fication effect of the 90's was in full play, fark the story make some cool effects and sell it.  I am afraid I am going to need to move in Pocket Ninja's world where there was only the one movie.

Now, if they wanted to reboot the movie and do it right...I would go see that movie.  Though, I am hard pressed to think of an actress as hot/kick ass awesome as Linda Hamilton for the lead.

NickelP: Pocket Ninja: Ishkur: What, when Reese said

No, when Reese explained that only living tissue could travel back through time. Which was why he not only arrived naked but also had no effective weapons with which to fight the terminator. Because, hey, if he'd been able to bring back real weapons, that would have been a pretty boring movie, right? Lie in ambush, wait for the terminator to appear, ZAM! Ray gun, arnold's disintegrated. They even spent time explaining why the Terminator was able to go back...because, yes, he was a machine, but he was encased in living flesh. Which means that Reese could have brought back weapons if they'd been inserted into him, but whatever.

But then what do they go and send through time in Terminator 2? A farking robot made of liquid metal. Liquid farking metal. Yeah.

If we are going to get all nit picky they would of just sent the terminator back to the 1800's and let him squash john's great great great grandpa with his bare hands in some cabin in the woods somewhere.



If you've got a time machine, why don't you just go back and kill him when he's sitting on the crapper or something?

Pocket Ninja: Terminator 2's entire premise violated the one main rule that the story had set up in the first movie regarding time travel. I can forgive a certain degree of laziness and shortcutting in a movie on the part of its writers, but past a certain point it becomes unacceptable.

But Terminator 2 had that Guns N Roses song, which was pretty cool at the time.

NickelP: Pocket Ninja: Ishkur: What, when Reese said

No, when Reese explained that only living tissue could travel back through time. Which was why he not only arrived naked but also had no effective weapons with which to fight the terminator. Because, hey, if he'd been able to bring back real weapons, that would have been a pretty boring movie, right? Lie in ambush, wait for the terminator to appear, ZAM! Ray gun, arnold's disintegrated. They even spent time explaining why the Terminator was able to go back...because, yes, he was a machine, but he was encased in living flesh. Which means that Reese could have brought back weapons if they'd been inserted into him, but whatever.

But then what do they go and send through time in Terminator 2? A farking robot made of liquid metal. Liquid farking metal. Yeah.

If we are going to get all nit picky they would of just sent the terminator back to the 1800's and let him squash john's great great great grandpa with his bare hands in some cabin in the woods somewhere.

Reese had a line about, "most of the records were destroyed in the war," and SkyNet could only narrow it down to a Sarah Connor living in L.A. They didn't even know her middle name, hence the T-800 being the "phonebook killer" in the first film.

Mugato: So Pixar is going to handle all his scenes?

Just the musical numbers with him tap-dancing with Fred Astaire.

Sgt Otter: Reese had a line about, "most of the records were destroyed in the war," and SkyNet could only narrow it down to a Sarah Connor living in L.A. They didn't even know her middle name, hence the T-800 being the "phonebook killer" in the first film.

I like how this plot point was handled in the sequels: Sarah and John deliberately living off the grid so as to leave as little digital trace as possible. That's why Skynet, despite being a sentient futuristic Google, had problems finding her.

Whatthefark: NickelP: Pocket Ninja: Ishkur: What, when Reese said

No, when Reese explained that only living tissue could travel back through time. Which was why he not only arrived naked but also had no effective weapons with which to fight the terminator. Because, hey, if he'd been able to bring back real weapons, that would have been a pretty boring movie, right? Lie in ambush, wait for the terminator to appear, ZAM! Ray gun, arnold's disintegrated. They even spent time explaining why the Terminator was able to go back...because, yes, he was a machine, but he was encased in living flesh. Which means that Reese could have brought back weapons if they'd been inserted into him, but whatever.

But then what do they go and send through time in Terminator 2? A farking robot made of liquid metal. Liquid farking metal. Yeah.

If we are going to get all nit picky they would of just sent the terminator back to the 1800's and let him squash john's great great great grandpa with his bare hands in some cabin in the woods somewhere.

...and right before the Terminator catches them, Marty McFly and Doc Brown appear in the Delorian and crash into the Terminator. John's ancestors escape and continue the bloodline.

Terminator 5: back to the future!

I'd totally watch that

NickelP: Anyways the biggest plot hole of the entire franchise is how the hell the terminator was designed off the remains of the one sent back in time.  They definitely divided by 0 on that one.

The deleted scene from T3 - the only watchable scene from that movie - goes into great detail. A loudmouth Texan General (Arnie, with overdubbed voice) in a promotional video for SkyNet, starts talking up the new T-100s, designed, of course, to look like Texan General.

Then, when the project manager (or whoever) asks if they can change the voice modulator (something about "that stupid accent"), the computer geek sitting nearby answers in a husky Austrian tone: "Vhe cohn feeks eet."

// they cut it because they thought it made the movie "too silly"
// clearly, they weren't watching the same film as the rest of us

NickelP: Pocket Ninja: Ishkur: What, when Reese said

No, when Reese explained that only living tissue could travel back through time. Which was why he not only arrived naked but also had no effective weapons with which to fight the terminator. Because, hey, if he'd been able to bring back real weapons, that would have been a pretty boring movie, right? Lie in ambush, wait for the terminator to appear, ZAM! Ray gun, arnold's disintegrated. They even spent time explaining why the Terminator was able to go back...because, yes, he was a machine, but he was encased in living flesh. Which means that Reese could have brought back weapons if they'd been inserted into him, but whatever.

But then what do they go and send through time in Terminator 2? A farking robot made of liquid metal. Liquid farking metal. Yeah.

If we are going to get all nit picky they would of just sent the terminator back to the 1800's and let him squash john's great great great grandpa with his bare hands in some cabin in the woods somewhere.


It would make sense from a butterfly effect perspective not to go any further back in time than absolutely necessary. I could probably go back in time to kill someone that was alive at the same time as my mother father and with a little research be reasonably certain that that particular individual had never crossed paths with them or had any real effect on their lives. But the further I go back in time, the more likely I'm going to kill someone whose premature death subtly alters the timeline enough that the particular circumstances of my birth never occur.