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(USA Today)   "Abusive partners can sabotage contraception." So what you're telling me is that the gas station attendant *didn't* poke a hole in the condoms? I feel so bad for burning the place down now   (usatoday.com) divider line 55
    More: Scary, gas station attendant, obstetricians, IUD, contraceptives  
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5920 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 9:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-24 10:47:01 AM
7 votes:
Oh look. It's all the poor underprivileged men again going on about how there is an article that isn't about their problems. This article is about how abusive men try to get women pregnant. Yes, it does happen a not insignificant amount of the time. Do women sometimes try to get pregnant to keep a man? Sure, but that's not what this article is about. If you want to write an article about that, go ahead no one is stopping you, but there is no reason to complain about this article.
Ant
2013-01-24 10:43:00 AM
5 votes:
Uh oh. Here come all the poor oppressed men to tell us how they were forced into having a baby by some woman that they chose to have sex with.
2013-01-24 12:44:00 PM
3 votes:
My ex convinced me to marry him when I was going to have an abortion after an unplanned pregnancy. Then when I tried to leave him when our kid was five, he threatened to kill both of us, got custody of our son, and made me pay him child support for 10 years (until I got the kid back). He then kept me in court for 12 years over custody issues, stalked me using our son as bait, and kept the kid in such a state of fear that I couldn't move on with my own life, because I had to constantly keep tabs on our son in case his dad hurt him.

He enforced visitation until the day the kid turned 18, even after custody changed hands and the kid wanted nothing to do with him, so that he could keep in contact and see me. Visitation before that was always whatever Daddy wanted, (his way or the highway--in other words, "or you won't see your son at all") and he could never manage anything except the schedule that would inconvenience me the most, needed to call me 4 times to arrange one hand-off, and was frequently late, just to rub it in. Whatever it took, short of anything that I could sue HIM for. He knows where I live even now because of that (15 years after I left him) and I am never comfortable living here. He might show up. He has before.

I lost the most productive years of my life dealing with this asshole, worrying that my son would be killed or injured, and trying to keep up with scumbag's frequent court filings, always designed to happen right when I started college, or moved out of town, or got a new boyfriend. My legal bills were something like $60,000, and that's just the legal stuff. My son and I both have PTSD, still, and yes, it does affect the way you can live your life.

So there's your story of how men can use kids to control you, even if you leave them. I know several other women with a similar story, although mine is somewhat worse than most of them. And not as bad as a few I've heard. Never doubt that someone who wants to control your life--even after you leave them--is perfectly able to do so, if you have kids together. The court system is geared toward making parents work together, which is like code for "stalkers are great, as long as they keep saying that it's for 'for the good of our child.'" The court will OK everything short of making you move back in with your ex, as long as it's presented as something that will help with "co-parenting." That goes for both men and women, and it's a lot more than just collecting child support. Most of you don't know what the fark you're talking about--but then, It's Fark.

Your ex-girlfriend collects too much child support from you and you're the world's most oppressed man? You poor thing. I seem to be running a little short of sympathy right now.

/After I left him, my ex told everyone that I'd "trapped him into marriage" with my pregnancy, and that our son was an accident. This took a few years to get back to me, and was one of the few times I confronted him about his lies. No matter--everyone believed him anyway. And he was given custody because I was an unfit mother. They believed that too.  It's almost as though some people really like that story about how men are always being trapped by the devious ways of women.
2013-01-24 11:10:33 AM
3 votes:
The article was about ways OB\GYN can help by asking questions and about providing back up contraception. So all the male outrage needs to chill. Abuse is wrong no matter the gender, reproductive coercion is wrong no matter the gender. But the article is addressing away to assist a certain risk group... Rage on Derpville.
2013-01-24 10:33:47 AM
3 votes:
This is news? This has been the standard MO for the 'barefoot and pregnant' brigade for some time now.

mexican bathtub cheese: 99% percent of coerced conception is initiated by females looking to own their partner for the next 18 years and 9 months.


Sweetie, nobody wants your sperm. Calm down.
2013-01-24 10:26:21 AM
3 votes:
FTA: Reproductive coercion occurs whenever a partner tries to prevent a woman from making her own choices about pregnancy.

Fixed: Reproductive coercion occurs whenever a partner tries to prevent a someone from making her own choices about pregnancy
2013-01-24 10:01:57 AM
3 votes:
Why is it this article only mentions MEN sabotaging contraception or using reproductive coercion? I have a nephew whose fiancee, when their relationship hit the skids, got pregnant. I'm not the only one who thinks she did it so he wouldn't dump her crazy ass.
2013-01-24 10:00:27 AM
3 votes:
I love how the article was all about the poor women...like how no women ever will try to have a "keep a man" baby on purpose...
2013-01-24 09:57:46 AM
3 votes:
Where's the percentage of the crazy broads who tell you they're on the pill, when actually they're just trying to get your babby batter so you're stuck dealing with them for the next 18 years? What about that percentage, HMMMMM?!?!?
2013-01-24 09:56:08 AM
3 votes:
Those in the domestic violence advocacy field find this to be very old news.
2013-01-24 12:53:32 PM
2 votes:
As fun as it is to rib a lady on the internet about her boobs or sandwich making qualities, when we bring up topics like "misogyny on the interwebs" we're usually referring to threads like this.
2013-01-24 12:41:40 PM
2 votes:
And you know, I was actually going to leave this one alone. But it doesn't get much more obnoxiously privileged than complaining that a report about women's health ignores men.

Next time a report on testicular cancer comes out I think I'll make sure to post that they totally neglected to think of me and my health needs in that report.
2013-01-24 12:35:04 PM
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: You're right, the numbers are off. None the less, the USA Today article totally ignores women's sabotage of the "contraceptive contract." That's not sloppy reporting; it's biased reporting.


The USA Today article was ABOUT GYNECOLOGISTS RECOMMENDING GUIDELINES FOR WOMEN'S HEALTH.

It was not a comprehensive report on all types of reproductive coercion nor did it pretend to be one.

Gah.
2013-01-24 11:37:18 AM
2 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: USA Today reports only on abusive relationships.  NPR reported on the general population.

"A 2010 survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that about 4.8 percent of women in the U.S. reported having had an intimate partner who tried to get them pregnant against their wishes or to stop them from using birth control.

"About 8.7 percent of men reported having a partner who tried to get pregnant against their wishes or to stop them from using contraception, the CDC survey found. "


That's why it's a good idea to go to the source, rather than the terrible journalism of NPR:
Approximately 8.6% (or an estimated 10.3 million) of women in the United States reported ever having an intimate partner who tried to get them pregnant when they did not want to, or refused to use a condom, with 4.8% having had an intimate partner who tried to get them pregnant when they did not want to, and 6.7% having had an intimate partner who refused to wear a condom (data not shown).
Approximately 10.4% (or an estimated 11.7 million) of men in the United States reported ever having an intimate partner who tried to get pregnant when they did not want to or tried to stop them from using birth control, with 8.7% having had an intimate partner who tried to get pregnant when they did not want to or tried to stop them from using birth control and 3.8% having had an intimate partner who refused to wear a condom (data not shown).


First, the 8.7% for men is a combination of two conditions, partner that tried to get pregnant or partner that tried to stop them from using birth control, while the 4.8% for women is only the first condition. Comparing those stats is like comparing apples and oranges to just oranges.

Second, note the error in the men's statistics:
10.4% report "having had an intimate partner who tried to get pregnant when they did not want to or tried to stop them from using birth control"
  8.7% report "having had an intimate partner who tried to get pregnant when they did not want to or tried to stop them from using birth control"

That's some awful reporting, CDC.
2013-01-24 11:34:46 AM
2 votes:

HailRobonia: amindtat: Why is it this article only mentions MEN sabotaging contraception or using reproductive coercion?

Because it is about abusive partners and it seems that only men can be abusive.


...Because they're asking gynecologists about their patient's problems that they can directly testify to.

When you, a male, go to see a gynecologist, tell me. You can use google if you want to find out about women doing it. There's plenty of articles about it. Far more then about men, actually. Just this isn't one.
2013-01-24 11:28:09 AM
2 votes:
Aaaand a quick perusal of this thread shows me there are very few Farkers that have ever spent any real time studying domestic violence.

This is a thing that happens. More often than the vast majority of people realize. I don't have the energy today to challenge misogynistic notions deeply rooted in gender bias, but yes, this is a thing, and it happens, and it's not particularly rare. Do some research.
2013-01-24 10:57:10 AM
2 votes:
The abusive man wants to own the woman and having her bear his children is a way to display ownership. Just like how the male lion in the pride screws all the women and kills any cubs that were the get of the previous male. The whole child support thing never enters the male's mind because he figures she'll never leave him and odds are he isn't that bright to begin with. Plus there is a certain logic in that a woman with a kid is a lot less marketable on the dating market so having her pop out a kid means she is now "high mileage" and has a kid tagging along to boot.

So yes there are plenty of reasons for the male to impregnate the woman and yes women sabotage contraception as well. However the article focuses on the abusive male doing it. If you're so pissed off that it didn't mention women doing it, go to news.google.com and search for stories of women doing it until you feel better.

/you don't compare men and women doing it in that each side has a different motive
//it should be a crime when either side does it
/of what you do with the kid is problematic, giving custody to the criminal party is giving a child to a criminal, giving it to the other party is inflicted them with a child they didn't want, that's just ugly
Ant
2013-01-24 10:56:37 AM
2 votes:

ph0rk: Ant: Uh oh. Here come all the poor oppressed men to tell us how they were forced into having a baby by some woman that they chose to have sex with.

If it should be a crime when a man does it to a woman, it should be a crime when a woman does it to a man. Do you disagree?


1) Don't fark women you don't trust.
2) If you're going to violate rule #1, wear a condom

If a woman sabotages the condom, I might consider it a crime. I'm not sure how often that actually happens though. In the MRA universe, it seems to be a freaking huge epidemic.
2013-01-24 10:56:26 AM
2 votes:
USA Today reports only on abusive relationships.  NPR reported on the general population.

"A 2010 survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that about 4.8 percent of women in the U.S. reported having had an intimate partner who tried to get them pregnant against their wishes or to stop them from using birth control.

"About 8.7 percent of men reported having a partner who tried to get pregnant against their wishes or to stop them from using contraception, the CDC survey found. "
Ant
2013-01-24 10:50:03 AM
2 votes:

Giltric: I've heard plenty of CSBs about the woman practicing reproductive coercion in order to keep the man from leaving.


Is the woman also regularly beating the shiat out of the man, and getting pregnant so the man will be completely dependent on her for the means to raise his children? No? Well, it's not the same thing then, is it?
2013-01-24 10:34:28 AM
2 votes:
FWIW, OB/GYNs are there for the ladies, not for the dudes. They probably aren't really qualified to make general statements about the prevalence of coerced reproduction when you consider both genders. Shame on the journalist, I guess, but I can't say I'm surprised or outraged.
2013-01-24 10:32:52 AM
2 votes:
This does actually happen in abusive relationships; it's a way for a man to keep his woman "at home and out of trouble." There is also an element of ownership and machismo in knowing you've made a woman pregnant whether she wanted to be or not.

If you didn't already understand this, congrats: you either are not, or have never had to deal with a man who is that type of abuser.


/two kids and more than one termination before we could get her and the babies the hell out of there.
2013-01-24 10:04:24 AM
2 votes:

alephtau: New feminism is on its last leg: it's treading dangerous waters. The article is slanted against those evil males who abuse their partners by inflicting on them the means of 18 years of child support.
This is way too close for comfort from the other-side-of-the-coin question reversal.


This is sure to bring out the angry, wages garnished for children they never wanted crowd.
2013-01-24 09:54:05 AM
2 votes:
Guys wanting unplanned kids? That's a new one.
2013-01-24 04:09:11 PM
1 votes:

cryinoutloud: Then when I tried to leave him when our kid was five, he threatened to kill both of us, got custody of our son, and made me pay him child support for 10 years (until I got the kid back). He then kept me in court for 12 years over custody issues,


The math on this adds up to a custody battle that lasted until the kid was 27... I'm really confused.
2013-01-24 02:02:48 PM
1 votes:

forteblast: FTFA: boyfriend takes off a condom in the middle of sex

"What am I reaching into your vagina for? Uh, no reason. The G-spot is in there somewhere, right?"

Xyphoid: Removing a condom in the middle of sex... how does the woman not notice the change?

What are these guys wearing, dick-skin condoms?


Everyone, point and laugh at the two people who have never seen a condom or had sex.
2013-01-24 01:53:35 PM
1 votes:

Xyphoid: Removing a condom in the middle of sex... how does the woman not notice the change?

What are these guys wearing, dick-skin condoms?


Um, women can't feel condoms. A naked dick feels the same as a covered one.
2013-01-24 01:22:24 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Genevieve Marie: BarkingUnicorn: You're right, the numbers are off. None the less, the USA Today article totally ignores women's sabotage of the "contraceptive contract." That's not sloppy reporting; it's biased reporting.

The USA Today article was ABOUT GYNECOLOGISTS RECOMMENDING GUIDELINES FOR WOMEN'S HEALTH.

It was not a comprehensive report on all types of reproductive coercion nor did it pretend to be one.

Gah.

You fell for that, did you?

"Oh, look... here's a CDC report on contraceptive sabotage.  Hmm... it says women do it too.  How can we fix that?"


From TFA:
While researchers don't know exactly how common such coercion is, it's common enough - especially among women who are abused by their partners in other ways - that health care providers should screen women for signs at regular check-ups and pregnancy visits, says the nation's leading group of obstetricians and gynecologists.

"We want to make sure that health care providers are aware that this is something that does go on and that it's a form of abuse," says Veronica Gillispie, an obstetrician and gynecologist at Ochsner Health System, New Orleans, and a member of the committee that wrote the opinion for the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. It's published in the February issue of Obstetrics & Gynecology, out today.


In summary, you're a retard.
2013-01-24 12:58:16 PM
1 votes:
Reproductive coercion occurs whenever a partner tries to prevent a woman from making her own choices about pregnancy,

Soooo... Republicans?
2013-01-24 12:49:31 PM
1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: And you know, I was actually going to leave this one alone. But it doesn't get much more obnoxiously privileged than complaining that a report about women's health ignores men.

Next time a report on testicular cancer comes out I think I'll make sure to post that they totally neglected to think of me and my health needs in that report.


It takes real balls to stand up to the trolls, so... ;)
2013-01-24 12:38:15 PM
1 votes:

tuffsnake: So if guy pokes a hole in his condom or a woman lies about being on the pill to SURPRISEBABBY their SO they are abusing them. I can understand that and I can see how for women it can help to have their OBGYN ask them about things to see if their partner is doing this. But how can a man's doctor ask him questions to see if his wife/girlfriend is lying about being on the pill to make sure he isn't being the victim of reproductive coercion?


They can't. It's almost like men and women have some basic physiological differences specifically related to reproductive health.
2013-01-24 12:31:28 PM
1 votes:

balisane: This does actually happen in abusive relationships; it's a way for a man to keep his woman "at home and out of trouble." There is also an element of ownership and machismo in knowing you've made a woman pregnant whether she wanted to be or not.

If you didn't already understand this, congrats: you either are not, or have never had to deal with a man who is that type of abuser.


/two kids and more than one termination before we could get her and the babies the hell out of there.


It does happen. Not often, but you are right for why a man would do it. My ex admitted that keeping me pregnant or at home with the babies made him feel superior and in charge of what I could and couldn't do. Some women can't use the pill or condoms. I didn't know about the iud until the divorce. I got one immediately. There are cases when a man is afraid you will wise up and leave if he doesn't tie you to him. It worked. I was scared out of my mind to take care of the kids on my own. He eventually decided he was in over his head and walked out on us. You can't understand crazy. It may not be common, but it really does happen. When you are in an abusive relationship it is hard to see what is happening. You are too busy ducking grenades.
2013-01-24 11:43:43 AM
1 votes:
The NPR article does seem more complete and better written. No big surprise there. It also includes this great quote that answers some of the derp in the replies here:

"We found men coerced women to become pregnant and then denied paternity or men refused to use contraception and then demanded the woman have an abortion," she says. "It's not necessarily about the outcome, but about the control."

So yeah, maybe there aren't that many guys who want to have rugrats with an unwilling women, what they want to do is much much worse.
2013-01-24 11:25:50 AM
1 votes:
Who the fark are you people dating? Seriously ... O_o ...

/SO is on the 5-year shot/implant ... hard to fake that one ...
2013-01-24 11:24:54 AM
1 votes:

Farce-Side: Where's the percentage of the crazy broads who tell you they're on the pill, when actually they're just trying to get your babby batter so you're stuck dealing with them for the next 18 years? What about that percentage, HMMMMM?!?!?


Yeah, what about them? I have a 14 year old from a coont I never should have touched that lied to me about BC. I was young and naive and just believed her. I love my daughter dearly and have done everything possible to be a good father. But I never wanted to be a father in the first place.
2013-01-24 11:16:06 AM
1 votes:

Farce-Side: CapeFearCadaver: Farce-Side: Where's the percentage of the crazy broads who tell you they're on the pill, when actually they're just trying to get your babby batter so you're stuck dealing with them for the next 18 years? What about that percentage, HMMMMM?!?!?

It probably correlates to the same percentage of men who refuse to protect them-own-damn-selves by wearing a condom.

Didn't you see the article and subsequent thread yesterday about how wearing a condom totally negates the pleasurable effects of sexual relations? Geez, get with the times.


I know, right. Cutting off the tip of the penis and wrapping it in latex is the epitome of pleasure, as The Lord intended.
2013-01-24 11:03:42 AM
1 votes:
CSB time.

One of the people in my MFA residency program was a little... intense. Always doing the stereotypical artist-throwing-paint-at-a-canvas thing, always jogging at 3 am, always a little ADHD. Well, anyway, her husband and two boys came for a visit, and while they were tear-assing around the courtyard, she was talking to some of our classmates about how she REALLY wanted another baby. Her husband thought two kids was enough, evidently, so she gets this Overly Attached Girlfriend look in her eyes and confides in her audience (which was all women except for me), "There are ways, you know."

Next semester she shows up with a ten-day-old newborn. Yup, there are ways. Dishonest and manipulative ways, but they're there.

End CSB.
2013-01-24 10:59:29 AM
1 votes:
Removing a condom in the middle of sex... how does the woman not notice the change?

What are these guys wearing, dick-skin condoms?
2013-01-24 10:59:13 AM
1 votes:

xanadian: Those in the domestic violence advocacy field find this to be very old news.


Yep, I'm glad this is getting some press. It can happen to both men and women.

Abusive men want their favorite plaything to become totally dependent on them, quickest way to do that? Get her knocked up. There's also some machismo in there too in having a bunch of kids.

All the guys going "Why would I do that and be forced to pay child support?". 1) Long-term thinking isn't an abuser's best skill 2) Many victims of abusive partners are too scared to go after them for child support.
Ant
2013-01-24 10:59:12 AM
1 votes:

LostGuy: Oh look. It's all the poor underprivileged men again going on about how there is an article that isn't about their problems. This article is about how abusive men try to get women pregnant. Yes, it does happen a not insignificant amount of the time. Do women sometimes try to get pregnant to keep a man? Sure, but that's not what this article is about. If you want to write an article about that, go ahead no one is stopping you, but there is no reason to complain about this article.


This.

Nothing but a bunch of whiny babies. Waaaaahhh! An article was written that doesn't address our problems!!!
2013-01-24 10:46:52 AM
1 votes:

Giltric: peasants_are_revolting: Farce-Side: Where's the percentage of the crazy broads who tell you they're on the pill, when actually they're just trying to get your babby batter so you're stuck dealing with them for the next 18 years? What about that percentage, HMMMMM?!?!?

Exactly.

Well supposedly that doesn't count cause it is her body and her choice to make whether by deception or accident.

If it truly was the womans choice all by herself the courts wouldn't be consistantly taxing men for her decision.


Wow, you don't know how to put on a condom? Damn, son.
2013-01-24 10:44:04 AM
1 votes:

Ant: Uh oh. Here come all the poor oppressed men to tell us how they were forced into having a baby by some woman that they chose to have sex with.


If it should be a crime when a man does it to a woman, it should be a crime when a woman does it to a man. Do you disagree?
2013-01-24 10:43:47 AM
1 votes:

Giltric: balisane: /two kids and more than one termination before we could get her and the babies the hell out of there.

So she stayed with the abusive guy for over 18 months?

Sounds like he was only part of the problem.


If you think it's that easy for people to get out of abusive situations, I envy your sheltered life. Sincerely.
2013-01-24 10:34:29 AM
1 votes:

peasants_are_revolting: Farce-Side: Where's the percentage of the crazy broads who tell you they're on the pill, when actually they're just trying to get your babby batter so you're stuck dealing with them for the next 18 years? What about that percentage, HMMMMM?!?!?

Exactly.


Well supposedly that doesn't count cause it is her body and her choice to make whether by deception or accident.

If it truly was the womans choice all by herself the courts wouldn't be consistantly taxing men for her decision.
2013-01-24 10:27:35 AM
1 votes:
99% percent of coerced conception is initiated by females looking to own their partner for the next 18 years and 9 months.
2013-01-24 10:21:57 AM
1 votes:
This just in... forcing someone to perform certain sexual acts is wrong. Film at eleven.

This article feels like one of the many redundant abuse articles I see sometimes that say "if a man does X against a woman, that's abuse" when doing X ever, to anyone ought to be a crime. It just feels weird to me to see genders used when the act should not be done by anyone. Lying or acting in such a way to "force" a pregnancy is a bad thing, regardless of who does it.

At least in most abuse awareness articles, men ARE the main perpetrators. We wouldn't have to make such a fuss over men beating women in particular if a bunch of men would actually stop beating women. In this case though, I personally feel pregnancy "fraud" is probably done a lot more often by women. I have no stats, but then again, neither does TFA.
2013-01-24 10:21:10 AM
1 votes:
Uh..all the "reproductive coercion" I've ever seen has been from chicks to dudes. "I must have forgot to take my pill, I must be that 1%" etc. I'm sure it goes the other way as well, but to presuppose that it's mostly dudes doing the coercion seems disingenuous.
2013-01-24 10:18:13 AM
1 votes:

amindtat: Why is it this article only mentions MEN sabotaging contraception or using reproductive coercion? I have a nephew whose fiancee, when their relationship hit the skids, got pregnant. I'm not the only one who thinks she did it so he wouldn't dump her crazy ass.


Oh, come on, we all know that men will happily put on a condom, if only they can poke a tiny pinhole in the end of it.  The loss of sensation is well worth the unplanned pregnancy
2013-01-24 10:17:19 AM
1 votes:

CapeFearCadaver: Farce-Side: Where's the percentage of the crazy broads who tell you they're on the pill, when actually they're just trying to get your babby batter so you're stuck dealing with them for the next 18 years? What about that percentage, HMMMMM?!?!?

It probably correlates to the same percentage of men who refuse to protect them-own-damn-selves by wearing a condom.


Didn't you see the article and subsequent thread yesterday about how wearing a condom totally negates the pleasurable effects of sexual relations? Geez, get with the times.
2013-01-24 10:14:12 AM
1 votes:
www.condom.co.nz
2013-01-24 10:03:19 AM
1 votes:

Farce-Side: Where's the percentage of the crazy broads who tell you they're on the pill, when actually they're just trying to get your babby batter so you're stuck dealing with them for the next 18 years? What about that percentage, HMMMMM?!?!?


It probably correlates to the same percentage of men who refuse to protect them-own-damn-selves by wearing a condom.
2013-01-24 09:58:21 AM
1 votes:
New feminism is on its last leg: it's treading dangerous waters. The article is slanted against those evil males who abuse their partners by inflicting on them the means of 18 years of child support.
This is way too close for comfort from the other-side-of-the-coin question reversal.
2013-01-24 09:56:45 AM
1 votes:
But I was assured that women had a way of shutting that whole thing down.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-24 09:55:24 AM
1 votes:
Something about that article makes me not at all sympathetic. Maybe it's the "X% of women are victims of evil men" propaganda that I grew tired of long ago (when I still had cable with Lifetime). Maybe it's all the pro-abortion rights news recently that reminds me how asymmetric the situation is.
2013-01-24 09:54:44 AM
1 votes:
What an asinine thing to do...

I HATE YOU!!! Here let me put genetic material in you that ensures the state can give you 25% of my paycheck for the next 18 years minimum.
 
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