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(CNN)   North Korea discloses nuke test and promises "upcoming all-out action" against U.S   (cnn.com) divider line 236
    More: Followup, North Korea, United States, United Nations Security Council, nuclear tests, KCNA, Security Council resolutions, National Defence Commission  
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11471 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 2:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-24 01:00:52 PM

JesusJuice: I bet with a lot of fancy technology a special forces team could go into NK and set themselves up as gods. They seem to dig that kind of shiat.


Ill bring a bic lighter and some deoderant. Maybe a few 50 lbs bags of rice.
 
2013-01-24 01:07:58 PM

AverageAmericanGuy:
We care about the sweet Korean twat buffet our soldiers get during their deployment...


Your terminology is way off here, mister. You must be referring to that area in Itaewon just north of Fish Alley, an area in which well-dressed young women ply their services by calling out "Short Form! Long Form! Can do 1040 EZ, GI!" We used to call the place "Accountants Hill."
 
2013-01-24 01:15:18 PM

Great_Milenko: The only thing North Korea has going for it is it's friendship with China. But China isn't going to support them in a military action against us. All we have to do to keep China in line is tell them that if they give us any shiat, we'll offer massive tax incentives for Apple and other companies to produce their products in the US. China will then step aside and let us mop the floor with that dopey looking farker and his cadre of anal tonguing worshipers.


North Korea is Chinas retarded little brother. They just wish he'd shut up, sit down, and stop embarrassing them or complicating things when the grown-ups are talking.

Yeah, if NK gets aggressive, China will sit it out, probably shake their heads and wag their fingers, probably veto a UNSC resolution about it, but won't get militarily involved. China knows that their own government stability is fueled by their economic stability and growth, which keeps the people in line. A war with the US would shiat all over that.

For all the talk of our dependence on China, they need us just as much.

Sure, they got involved the first time, but that was 60 years ago and China has changed a lot. Their relaxation in the 1980's and economic opening has really turned them into being Communist in-name-only, they are now more an authoritarian socialist state than really communist.

On the other hand, Best Korea has wholeheartedly embraced Stalinist Communism. China thrived, Best Korea has turned into some nightmarish combination of 1984 and Mad Max.
 
2013-01-24 02:20:15 PM
You know, go ahead, N Korea. Start a fight with us.  We have never hurt you and actively offer aid to your sorry ass. You start that fight, we will be  fully justified in raining all holy hell down on your asses, and I for one will feel no sympathy for anyone but the civilians that your own goddamn posturing killed.

/Seriously, where the f**k does this 'KILL AMERICA!!!111!' thing come from? The one nation on farking Earth we've never actually farked with, and  that's the one pretending we're 'sworn enemies'?
//I mean, yes, we don't let them have nukes, but that's fairly typical international douchebaggery, not a sign of actual enmity (and partly a 'holy fark no, you lunatics don't get grown-up toys, you're farking insane').
 
2013-01-24 02:26:47 PM

Bomb Head Mohammed: imthefonze: Lol. Hey we are safe, the u.n. Sent them an angry letter. Also, im willing to give up san fransisco for us to finally go scorched earth policy on them.

Since 1945, the UN has been credited with negotiating 172 peaceful settlements that have ended regional conflicts. But, you know, keep derping.


The UN only functions as designed when both sides are willing to allow the UN to function as designed.

When one or both sides treats the UN as a joke, the UN functions as a joke.
 
2013-01-24 02:37:58 PM
Anybody else getting a strong whiff of Iran here?
 
2013-01-24 02:44:18 PM

NobleHam: miniflea: This About That: Would it cost us San Francisco or LA to finally be rid of N. Korea? It makes a difference.

North Korea is incapable of striking the United States, or of holding out for more than a few weeks of conventional war, if that. What they ARE capable of is causing hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in Seoul within the first hours of any war.

Anti US bluster has always been a key part of the Kim's stranglehold on their country, but they (Jong Il at least, and lets hope his son as well) aren't so stupid as to believe their own propaganda.

I really doubt they could manage to do much damage to Seoul, and Seoul has pretty extensive preparations for such an event so casualties would be minimal. They might have been able to do some serious harm in the 80s, but at this point they'd only have about 10 minutes before all of their artillery bunkers were buried in rubble and rocket shrapnel. They certainly couldn't nuke Seoul. Any plane they sent would be shot down just over the DMZ and they don't have any other delivery method short of carrying it through a tunnel under the DMZ, and I don't think they've got any of those the South hasn't found.


1. They have hundreds of bunkers in the mountains within range of Seoul, and most of them are fortified and hidden well enough to withstand counterbattery or counterground operations from the ground and air, respectively, at least for the first week of combat.

2. NK has crappy aircraft, but they have a lot of them. If they really, really wanted to aerially deliver a nuke to Seoul, they could figure out a way to make it happen. Awfully hard to shoot down a flood of Cold War-era MiGs without some of them getting through.

3. I can't go into specifics, but every wargame I ever saw or participated in with NK as the focus inevitably resulted in one common conclusion: lots of dead South Koreans.
 
2013-01-24 03:23:49 PM

Feral_and_Preposterous: I think we should just develop a long range hot-dog gun. Shoot a bunch of hot-dogs and burritos and packets of Charmin over there and let people (and especially their troops) develop a taste for something other than sawdust and shoe leather and get used to wiping their asses with some soft, plush TP. Maybe the problem will correct itself.


A friend of mine used to be stationed at the Berlin Wall, and he said the soldiers on each side would throw gifts to each other all the time; the East Germans would throw over bottles of vodka, and the Americans would throw over cartons of Marlboros. My buddy said that if TSHTF, they'd most likely meet in the middle and shake hands.
 
2013-01-24 03:24:38 PM

ontariolightning: Mock26: Just give that dumb, fat, f*ck all the Happy Meals he can shove down his face hole. Then cut him off. He will agree to any demands if he can have his farking Happy Meals again.

Don't say that. Don't be mean. He could be reading that comment and committ suicide. Words kill. Your post could be what sets him off and kills millions of people. Now apologize just in case he read it. Put out the fire.


Dear Kim Jong-un,

i am sorry that you are a dumb f*ck.

Insincerely,
Mock26.
 
2013-01-24 03:31:39 PM
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-24 03:44:09 PM
So, this is a declaration of war yes?

They specifically mentioned the US and provoking the US with military acts.

Perhaps if we don't take them seriously as a nation declaring war, we can treat them as pirates and pick em off every time they stick their heads out of their holes?
 
2013-01-24 04:11:01 PM
PsiChick

2013-01-24 02:20:15 PM
You know, go ahead, N Korea. Start a fight with us. We have never hurt you and actively offer aid to your sorry ass. You start that fight, we will be fully justified in raining all holy hell down on your asses, and I for one will feel no sympathy for anyone but the civilians that your own goddamn posturing killed.

/Seriously, where the f**k does this 'KILL AMERICA!!!111!' thing come from? The one nation on farking Earth we've never actually farked with, and that's the one pretending we're 'sworn enemies'?


What do you mean? We fought a war there from 1950 - 1953. Remember MASH, the TV show? Alan Alda? Radar? HotLips Houlihan?
 
2013-01-24 04:18:09 PM

ReverendJynxed: So, this is a declaration of war yes?

They specifically mentioned the US and provoking the US with military acts.

Perhaps if we don't take them seriously as a nation declaring war, we can treat them as pirates and pick em off every time they stick their heads out of their holes?


If I remember correctly, we are still at war with North Korea. We never signed a peace treaty with them.
 
2013-01-24 04:26:54 PM

ReverendJynxed: So, this is a declaration of war yes?

They specifically mentioned the US and provoking the US with military acts.

Perhaps if we don't take them seriously as a nation declaring war, we can treat them as pirates and pick em off every time they stick their heads out of their holes?


Mock26: ReverendJynxed: So, this is a declaration of war yes?

They specifically mentioned the US and provoking the US with military acts.

Perhaps if we don't take them seriously as a nation declaring war, we can treat them as pirates and pick em off every time they stick their heads out of their holes?

If I remember correctly, we are still at war with North Korea. We never signed a peace treaty with them.


That's right. So, can they declare war on us or what?
 
2013-01-24 04:58:42 PM

Mock26: [img.photobucket.com image 600x432]


"This calls for a delicate blend of psychology and extreme violence."
 
2013-01-24 05:12:35 PM

SirEattonHogg: PsiChick

2013-01-24 02:20:15 PM
You know, go ahead, N Korea. Start a fight with us. We have never hurt you and actively offer aid to your sorry ass. You start that fight, we will be fully justified in raining all holy hell down on your asses, and I for one will feel no sympathy for anyone but the civilians that your own goddamn posturing killed.

/Seriously, where the f**k does this 'KILL AMERICA!!!111!' thing come from? The one nation on farking Earth we've never actually farked with, and that's the one pretending we're 'sworn enemies'?


What do you mean? We fought a war there from 1950 - 1953. Remember MASH, the TV show? Alan Alda? Radar? HotLips Houlihan?


...I'm twenty, the most I know about MASH is that it was an old fart's idea of comedy. Are you farking kidding?

*googles*

Oh, that explains it, we never actually declared war on them...FFS, how did this not make history textbooks? This actually explains quite a lot.

/Goddamnit, can we start funding and researching education already?
 
2013-01-24 05:24:04 PM

PsiChick: SirEattonHogg: PsiChick

2013-01-24 02:20:15 PM
You know, go ahead, N Korea. Start a fight with us. We have never hurt you and actively offer aid to your sorry ass. You start that fight, we will be fully justified in raining all holy hell down on your asses, and I for one will feel no sympathy for anyone but the civilians that your own goddamn posturing killed.

/Seriously, where the f**k does this 'KILL AMERICA!!!111!' thing come from? The one nation on farking Earth we've never actually farked with, and that's the one pretending we're 'sworn enemies'?


What do you mean? We fought a war there from 1950 - 1953. Remember MASH, the TV show? Alan Alda? Radar? HotLips Houlihan?

...I'm twenty, the most I know about MASH is that it was an old fart's idea of comedy. Are you farking kidding?

*googles*

Oh, that explains it, we never actually declared war on them...FFS, how did this not make history textbooks? This actually explains quite a lot.

/Goddamnit, can we start funding and researching education already?


Ouch. Just ouch.
 
2013-01-24 05:43:33 PM

Bomb Head Mohammed: imthefonze: Lol. Hey we are safe, the u.n. Sent them an angry letter. Also, im willing to give up san fransisco for us to finally go scorched earth policy on them.

Since 1945, the UN has been credited with negotiating 172 peaceful settlements that have ended regional conflicts. But, you know, keep derping.


Negotiating while the U.S. sits in the corner tapping its very large stick in reminder of who runs the show.
 
2013-01-24 05:49:44 PM

Mock26: ReverendJynxed: So, this is a declaration of war yes?

They specifically mentioned the US and provoking the US with military acts.

Perhaps if we don't take them seriously as a nation declaring war, we can treat them as pirates and pick em off every time they stick their heads out of their holes?

If I remember correctly, we are still at war with North Korea. We never signed a peace treaty with them.


Then they are calling for the end of the cease fire. For all intent and purpose, if you aren't flinging projectiles at each other or killing an enemy's soldiers, it isn't war.

Sure we can be pedantic but that just avoids the question and point being made.
 
2013-01-24 06:13:51 PM

PsiChick: SirEattonHogg: PsiChick

2013-01-24 02:20:15 PM
You know, go ahead, N Korea. Start a fight with us. We have never hurt you and actively offer aid to your sorry ass. You start that fight, we will be fully justified in raining all holy hell down on your asses, and I for one will feel no sympathy for anyone but the civilians that your own goddamn posturing killed.

/Seriously, where the f**k does this 'KILL AMERICA!!!111!' thing come from? The one nation on farking Earth we've never actually farked with, and that's the one pretending we're 'sworn enemies'?


What do you mean? We fought a war there from 1950 - 1953. Remember MASH, the TV show? Alan Alda? Radar? HotLips Houlihan?

...I'm twenty, the most I know about MASH is that it was an old fart's idea of comedy. Are you farking kidding?

*googles*

Oh, that explains it, we never actually declared war on them...FFS, how did this not make history textbooks? This actually explains quite a lot.

/Goddamnit, can we start funding and researching education already?


*blink* Posts like this make me weep for the future...

/And, goddammit, watch M*A*S*H sometime!
//It's not just for "old farts", nor is it simple "comedy"...
 
2013-01-24 06:29:56 PM

buckler: Feral_and_Preposterous: I think we should just develop a long range hot-dog gun. Shoot a bunch of hot-dogs and burritos and packets of Charmin over there and let people (and especially their troops) develop a taste for something other than sawdust and shoe leather and get used to wiping their asses with some soft, plush TP. Maybe the problem will correct itself.

A friend of mine used to be stationed at the Berlin Wall, and he said the soldiers on each side would throw gifts to each other all the time; the East Germans would throw over bottles of vodka, and the Americans would throw over cartons of Marlboros. My buddy said that if TSHTF, they'd most likely meet in the middle and shake hands.


Nice. It's like Christmas on the Western front.
 
2013-01-24 06:31:26 PM

PsiChick: You know, go ahead, N Korea. Start a fight with us.  We have never hurt you and actively offer aid to your sorry ass. You start that fight, we will be  fully justified in raining all holy hell down on your asses, and I for one will feel no sympathy for anyone but the civilians that your own goddamn posturing killed.

/Seriously, where the f**k does this 'KILL AMERICA!!!111!' thing come from? The one nation on farking Earth we've never actually farked with, and  that's the one pretending we're 'sworn enemies'?
//I mean, yes, we don't let them have nukes, but that's fairly typical international douchebaggery, not a sign of actual enmity (and partly a 'holy fark no, you lunatics don't get grown-up toys, you're farking insane').


Wat?
 
2013-01-24 07:04:33 PM

ontariolightning: MaliFinn: You really don't want to do that. We're all peaceful and humane and shiat, but if you attack us we will evaporate your entire country 500 feet deep.

US can't do shiat to NK because of the proximity to South Korea and Seoul.


South Korea would be more than happy for us to bomb the shiat out of them again.

And we wouldn't need nukes, if that's what you were thinking.
 
2013-01-24 07:13:47 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Any other Administration, I'd say North Korea is in for some urban renewal if they try that shiat, but with Obama?

He hates America and is probably coordinating the attack for greatest efficiency in killing the most Americans that can be accomplished.


I heard he eats white babies and wipes his ass with American flags...I heard that he harvesting the organs of war veterans and selling them to George Soros to be used in satanic incantations that they perform at the opening of "green" pork barrel projects ran by marriage hating queers.
 
2013-01-24 08:02:58 PM

ficklefkrfark: Clemkadidlefark: Any other Administration, I'd say North Korea is in for some urban renewal if they try that shiat, but with Obama?

He hates America and is probably coordinating the attack for greatest efficiency in killing the most Americans that can be accomplished.

I heard he eats white babies and wipes his ass with American flags...I heard that he is harvesting the organs of war veterans and selling them to George Soros to be used in satanic incantations that they perform at the opening of "green" pork barrel projects run by marriage hating queers.


Don't forget sawing Florida off the American coastline and... wait, I gotta find my script...

...let's see, saws the coastline a la Bugs Bunny, got that. Oh, and they have to use hand saws and Dremels so that a lot of people get work but it's boring and not job-creating. I almost forgot that part....

...oh! And he's hijacking crates of Hennessy VSOP heading to liquor stores in Koreatown and shipping them directly to KJU using Psy's private plane (also stolen) just to anger the Southland's expat community.

/couldn't remember how to spell Hennessy, so I wound up at their web site
//I'm glad to see Futura is getting work!
 
2013-01-25 03:11:09 AM

PsiChick: SirEattonHogg: PsiChick

2013-01-24 02:20:15 PM
You know, go ahead, N Korea. Start a fight with us. We have never hurt you and actively offer aid to your sorry ass. You start that fight, we will be fully justified in raining all holy hell down on your asses, and I for one will feel no sympathy for anyone but the civilians that your own goddamn posturing killed.

/Seriously, where the f**k does this 'KILL AMERICA!!!111!' thing come from? The one nation on farking Earth we've never actually farked with, and that's the one pretending we're 'sworn enemies'?


What do you mean? We fought a war there from 1950 - 1953. Remember MASH, the TV show? Alan Alda? Radar? HotLips Houlihan?

...I'm twenty, the most I know about MASH is that it was an old fart's idea of comedy. Are you farking kidding?

*googles*

Oh, that explains it, we never actually declared war on them...FFS, how did this not make history textbooks? This actually explains quite a lot.

/Goddamnit, can we start funding and researching education already?


I hope you're pretty.

/I keed
 
2013-01-26 02:49:48 PM

PsiChick: SirEattonHogg: PsiChick

2013-01-24 02:20:15 PM
You know, go ahead, N Korea. Start a fight with us. We have never hurt you and actively offer aid to your sorry ass. You start that fight, we will be fully justified in raining all holy hell down on your asses, and I for one will feel no sympathy for anyone but the civilians that your own goddamn posturing killed.

/Seriously, where the f**k does this 'KILL AMERICA!!!111!' thing come from? The one nation on farking Earth we've never actually farked with, and that's the one pretending we're 'sworn enemies'?


What do you mean? We fought a war there from 1950 - 1953. Remember MASH, the TV show? Alan Alda? Radar? HotLips Houlihan?

...I'm twenty, the most I know about MASH is that it was an old fart's idea of comedy. Are you farking kidding?

*googles*

Oh, that explains it, we never actually declared war on them...FFS, how did this not make history textbooks? This actually explains quite a lot.

/Goddamnit, can we start funding and researching education already?


You're either Epic Trolling, or you just pulled off an Epic Fail.

You'd never heard of the Korean War? 1950-1953. 35,000 American KIA, 8,000 American MIA, the only time in the entire Cold War that US forces openly fought Soviet and Chinese troops on the battlefield in open warfare.

Yeah, it wasn't a declared war, neither was Vietnam, and the Gulf War, or the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars,

Again, not sure if Epic Trolling or Epic Fail.

The idea that MASH is just "old farts idea of comedy" makes me think it's trolling though.
If it's Epic Fail. . .Damn, our schools need better History classes.
 
2013-01-26 03:09:29 PM

Silverstaff: You're either Epic Trolling, or you just pulled off an Epic Fail.

You'd never heard of the Korean War? 1950-1953. 35,000 American KIA, 8,000 American MIA, the only time in the entire Cold War that US forces openly fought Soviet and Chinese troops on the battlefield in open warfare.

Yeah, it wasn't a declared war, neither was Vietnam, and the Gulf War, or the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars,

Again, not sure if Epic Trolling or Epic Fail.

The idea that MASH is just "old farts idea of comedy" makes me think it's trolling though.
If it's Epic Fail. . .Damn, our schools need better History classes.


No, the Korean War is not covered in most history textbooks. Vietnam is barely covered, and the Gulf War isn't mentioned, nor are our previous attempts to fark around in the ME. My HS was pretty good, but American schools are ranked ridiculously low in the world for a reason. Most of the history class got spent on telling us how awful the World Wars were. Which is a good subject, just it's a touch confusing when people start talking about Bush like he's going  back to Iraq and you wonder just WTF happened there.

/As far as 'old farts idea of comedy', I'm an English major. I can tell you exactly why complaining about the Clone Wars Saga is stupid and point to 'classic' TV shows that prove why.
//I'm really boring to watch TV with if I don't like the show. :p
 
2013-01-26 10:49:58 PM

PsiChick: No, the Korean War is not covered in most history textbooks. Vietnam is barely covered, and the Gulf War isn't mentioned, nor are our previous attempts to fark around in the ME. My HS was pretty good, but American schools are ranked ridiculously low in the world for a reason. Most of the history class got spent on telling us how awful the World Wars were. Which is a good subject, just it's a touch confusing when people start talking about Bush like he's going back to Iraq and you wonder just WTF happened there.

/As far as 'old farts idea of comedy', I'm an English major. I can tell you exactly why complaining about the Clone Wars Saga is stupid and point to 'classic' TV shows that prove why.
//I'm really boring to watch TV with if I don't like the show. :p



Okay, you've got the Internet, access to the sum of human knowledge. Use it to better your education. There is a LOT about world history and US history you never were told. (Let me dust off my History and Political Science degrees here)

The countries that don't like us very much tend to have VERY good reasons for doing so.

North Korea: The Korean War, three year long war where we killed several hundred thousand of their soldiers, and only direct military intervention by the Soviet Union and communist China prevented their total defeat. . .and we discussed nuking them outright to end the war (but decided not to). The US ongoing massive military presence in South Korea is one of the big reasons why North Korea can't conquer South Korea. Yeah, they are going to be pissed at us.

Iran: In 1953 the US (in cooperation with the United Kingdom) orchestrated a coup de etat in Iran to oust Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh from power. We overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran to turn the token Constitutional Monarch of Shah Reza Pahlavi into an authoritarian dictator. Why? Because the democratically elected government thought we were ripping them off in oil transactions (we were) and was planning to nationalize the oil wells and kick out western oil companies. So, to protect our oil interests, we overthrew their government and installed a dictatorship. The big Iranian Revolution of 1979 (which you also might not have heard) was them overthrowing the hated dictator we put in place there. Yeah, the Islamic Theocracy that replaced it wasn't much better, if any better, but it actually was a secular, democratic state about 60 years ago, until we farked that up. So, yeah, Iran has reason to be pissed at us.

For key events in world history (with an emphasis on the US and effects on the US) after World War II but before 9/11, some subjects to Google (in roughly chronological order):

The Cold War
The Berlin Airlift
The Korean War
Mossadegh Affair
Suez Crisis
The Bay of Pigs
Gulf of Tonkin Incident
Kennedy Assassination
Vietnam War
Six Day War
The Killing Fields
Ping Pong Diplomacy
Watergate
Yom Kippur War
Soviet Detente
Iranian Revolution
Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan
Falkland Islands War
Grenada Invasion
Iran-Iraq War
Operation Just Cause
Fall of the Berlin Wall
Operation Desert Storm
The Yugoslav Wars

As for MASH, it was far more than a typical sitcom. There is a reason why 40 years later it's so fondly remembered.

From an artistic standpoint, it marked a real transition in US television as it became a show that was far more than a simple comedy (but it was quite good when it went for raw comedy). It quickly became a comedy-drama series that in some cases was much more about the drama. In the 1970's, MASH used the setting of the Korean War as an allegory to help the US deal with social and emotional issues related to Vietnam. Also, it dealt with a lot of issues that were quite controversial in the day (a young soldier accidentally reveals he's gay, and an overzealous officer is trying to get him dishonorably discharged, a racist commanding officer is sending black troops on suicide missions to get rid of them).

If you think of it as just a stupid sitcom, you'll miss out on something that has a lot of depth of character and genuine drama (and the first show in US TV to really blend the two), while also being a remarkably funny show.
 
2013-01-27 01:02:10 AM

Silverstaff: PsiChick: No, the Korean War is not covered in most history textbooks. Vietnam is barely covered, and the Gulf War isn't mentioned, nor are our previous attempts to fark around in the ME. My HS was pretty good, but American schools are ranked ridiculously low in the world for a reason. Most of the history class got spent on telling us how awful the World Wars were. Which is a good subject, just it's a touch confusing when people start talking about Bush like he's going back to Iraq and you wonder just WTF happened there.

/As far as 'old farts idea of comedy', I'm an English major. I can tell you exactly why complaining about the Clone Wars Saga is stupid and point to 'classic' TV shows that prove why.
//I'm really boring to watch TV with if I don't like the show. :p


Okay, you've got the Internet, access to the sum of human knowledge. Use it to better your education. There is a LOT about world history and US history you never were told. (Let me dust off my History and Political Science degrees here)

The countries that don't like us very much tend to have VERY good reasons for doing so.

North Korea: The Korean War, three year long war where we killed several hundred thousand of their soldiers, and only direct military intervention by the Soviet Union and communist China prevented their total defeat. . .and we discussed nuking them outright to end the war (but decided not to). The US ongoing massive military presence in South Korea is one of the big reasons why North Korea can't conquer South Korea. Yeah, they are going to be pissed at us.

Iran: In 1953 the US (in cooperation with the United Kingdom) orchestrated a coup de etat in Iran to oust Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh from power. We overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran to turn the token Constitutional Monarch of Shah Reza Pahlavi into an authoritarian dictator. Why? Because the democratically elected government thought we were ripping them off in oil transactions (we were) and ...


Oooh, that's fascinating, thanks. I've been trying to supplement my history education with Google, it's just difficult to find terms. This is really helpful. :)
 
2013-01-27 04:07:58 AM

Silverstaff: The countries that don't like us very much tend to have VERY good reasons for doing so.

North Korea: The Korean War, three year long war where we killed several hundred thousand of their soldiers, and only direct military intervention by the Soviet Union and communist China prevented their total defeat. . .and we discussed nuking them outright to end the war (but decided not to). The US ongoing massive military presence in South Korea is one of the big reasons why North Korea can't conquer South Korea. Yeah, they are going to be pissed at us.


We killed their soldiers while they were trying to invade South Korea, occupying cities and executing every educated person they could find as a "security threat". We weren't the aggressors in that war, nor were the people we were defending. They should be pissed at their leaders, not the friends of the people they attempted to conquer.
 
2013-01-27 06:48:46 AM

Dokushin: We killed their soldiers while they were trying to invade South Korea, occupying cities and executing every educated person they could find as a "security threat". We weren't the aggressors in that war, nor were the people we were defending. They should be pissed at their leaders, not the friends of the people they attempted to conquer.


I know. I never said we were the aggressors.

However, the average people of Best Korea know only what Dear Leader/Dear Successor/Dear Donut Depository tell them, and the official story is that the US is the evil empire ect.

The fact that the US is really the only thing keeping Best Korea from restarting the Korean War and probably winning (or at least making it a very bloody fight) is reason for them to be pissed. Yeah, we aren't the aggressors, but that doesn't mean they'll like us.

The whole point of this was that PsiChick didn't know why NK hates the US, because of the lackluster and shamefully inadequate coverage of post World War II history in US public schools. They have a reason to hate us, it might be that we thwarted their plan for conquest of the Korean peninsula, but it's a reason.

To them, we are their single greatest nemesis, that which keeps blocking them from their dreams of conquest and domination. To us they are just another adversary on our list of local bad guys to keep in check.
 
2013-01-27 07:02:29 AM

Silverstaff: The Cold War
The Berlin Airlift
The Korean War
Mossadegh Affair
Suez Crisis
The Bay of Pigs
Gulf of Tonkin Incident
Kennedy Assassination
Vietnam War
Six Day War
The Killing Fields
Ping Pong Diplomacy
Watergate
Yom Kippur War
Soviet Detente
Iranian Revolution
Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan
Falkland Islands War
Grenada Invasion
Iran-Iraq War
Operation Just Cause
Fall of the Berlin Wall
Operation Desert Storm
The Yugoslav Wars


I can't take it anymore!

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-27 07:27:36 AM
PsiChick

Bonus history lesson: Why Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Ladin hates/hated us. (Free hint, it isn't because "They hate our Freedom" was was the standard chant after 9/11)

In 1979, a communist insurgency in Afghanistan overthrew the democratically elected government. To prevent the significant anti-communist forces from regaining control, the Afghani Communists signed a treaty with the Soviet Union and invited the USSR to come and help spread communism to Afghanistan.

The Soviets invaded and occupied Afghanistan immediately, to turn it into another Soviet-bloc puppet state. The rest of the world was not exactly happy about this. The US began to funnel resources and money to the Mujahedin, the anti-communist forces. (This was also part of the plot of Rambo III, where Rambo goes to help the Afghanis fight the communists).

The Islamic world was also VERY pissed about this. Afghanistan was a secular, democratic state, but it was overwhelmingly Islamic in population and the USSR was unabashedly atheist and had since its inception a goal of the eradication of religion worldwide. So, Muslims around the world went to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, as a jihad.

Osama Bin Ladin was one of these. The son of a wealthy Saudi family, he put his substantial personal wealth into backing anti-communist Mujahedin. The war raged on for a decade, eventually ending in Soviet withdrawal in 1989, right as the Cold War was ending. The USSR began dissolution and was eventually completely disbanded on Christmas Day, 1991.

Osama Bin Ladin saw this as a sign from Allah: He fought a superpower and won. He took on one of the two most powerful nations on Earth and in his mind, forced it to complete collapse (he basically attributed the entire collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War to his actions in Afghanistan). Needless to say, this did wonders for his ego.

Right after the Soviet withdrawal, Saddam Hussein does the dumbest thing he ever did. Iraq invaded Kuwait, claiming that Kuwait was rightfully a part of Iraq and should never have been independent. In 1990 they blatantly stage a massive complete invasion and occupation of Kuwait. Iraq, fresh out of the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's, had (on paper) the fourth largest army in the world. It didn't help that Kuwait had basically loaned Iraq all the money to fight that war and build that huge army and was now calling those debts due, by invading them they could essentially wipe out the debts.

The Kuwaiti Royal Family flees to Saudi Arabia, and begins to coordinate the efforts to retake their country in concert with the Saudi Royalty.

Osama Bin Ladin goes to the Saudi Royal Family and offers his skills as a leader of jihad. He offers to put together a Kuwaiti Mujahedin, to gather Muslims from around the world, train them, and take them to Kuwait to fight the Iraqis and drive them out.

The Saudis see that is impractical, time consuming, and of questionable military value. Instead, the Saudis go to the United Nations, get a Security Council resolution condemning the invasion and a massive (US-lead) international coalition is assembled in Saudi Arabia to prepare to retake Kuwait.

This enraged Bin Ladin beyond belief. Traditional Islamic thought is that the Arabian penninsula is for Muslims only. The presence of US (and other Christian & non-Islamic) forces in Arabia was intolerable. The fact that the actual ground war, once began, resulted in total defeat of Iraqi forces (supposedly the 4th strongest army in the world at the time) within 100 hours totally vindicated the Saudi royal family in their choice to turn to the US for professional military aid, instead of Bin Ladin and his plan to raise a Mujahedin army.

Bin Ladin held a grudge. He figured he'd taken down one superpower, now he'd go after the other. The standing US presence in the Arabian peninsula after the war was cassus belli in his eyes for a Jihad.

With high-sounding rhetoric about restoring the glory of the Islamic Caliphate (i.e. the middle-east wide Islamic Empire that ruled under various names from the time of Mohammed in the mid 600's until the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire in 1923), he appealed to fundamentalist Muslims who hated all things western, to those enthralled with the history of when Islamic Empires were major world powers, to those who saw foreign infidel forces on their holy ground as sacrilege, and talked of building a worldwide new empire.

Al Qaeda is typically translated as "The Base", but it can also be translated as "The Foundation". There is some evidence that Osama Bin Laden actually was a fan of Asimov's Foundation & Empire novels, and basically tried to make Al Qaeda an Islamic version of The Foundation, to build a new Islamic Empire after the collapse of civilization (which they would bring on).

Stripped of his Saudi citizenship by a Saudi government that considered him an embarrasment and a criminal, he fled to Afghanistan, which saw him as something of a hero for his efforts in chasing the Soviet threat. In the power vacuum after the Soviets left, armed bands of fundamentalist Madrassa students took over in the government. ("Taliban" actually means "Students"). More secularly inclined factions resisted Taliban rule and Afghanistan descended into a long civil war throughout the 1990's as small anti-Taliban factions resisted. The US basically stayed out of this, we didn't want to get involved in Afghanistan like the Soviets did.

The Taliban government sheltered him and let him run his operations from there, but the Taliban and Al-Qaeda were always separate organizations that didn't overlap. Al-Qaeda is international terrorism with the stated goal of creating a new worldwide Islamic Caliphate. The Taliban is the militant extremist Islamic faction that wants to govern Afghanistan.

Bin Laden was a wanted criminal in the US long before 9/11, for being the known mastermind of numerous terrorist attacks on US forces in the middle east, including a massive truck bomb attack on US barracks in Saudi Arabia (look up the Khobar Towers), and a bombing/ramming attack on the USS Cole. Thing was, he was just attacking troops overseas, the US media would talk about the attacks, but it would just be another news story, just another item.

Until 9/11, it was just seen by the US as business as usual, the terrorist attacks were only on our troops overseas. 9/11 was the game changer not because it was the first time they attacked us, far from it, it was the first time they attacked US civilians on US soil. He hoped that it would demoralize the US, and draw them into a long, protracted war where he would win through attrition and drive the US to complete and total collapse like he did the Soviets, and without the mighty US in his way, his dream of a new Islamic world government would be possible.
 
2013-01-27 02:01:12 PM

Silverstaff: PsiChick

Bonus history lesson: Why Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Ladin hates/hated us. (Free hint, it isn't because "They hate our Freedom" was was the standard chant after 9/11)

In 1979, a communist insurgency in Afghanistan overthrew the democratically elected government. To prevent the significant anti-communist forces from regaining control, the Afghani Communists signed a treaty with the Soviet Union and invited the USSR to come and help spread communism to Afghanistan.

The Soviets invaded and occupied Afghanistan immediately, to turn it into another Soviet-bloc puppet state. The rest of the world was not exactly happy about this. The US began to funnel resources and money to the Mujahedin, the anti-communist forces. (This was also part of the plot of Rambo III, where Rambo goes to help the Afghanis fight the communists).

The Islamic world was also VERY pissed about this. Afghanistan was a secular, democratic state, but it was overwhelmingly Islamic in population and the USSR was unabashedly atheist and had since its inception a goal of the eradication of religion worldwide. So, Muslims around the world went to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, as a jihad.

Osama Bin Ladin was one of these. The son of a wealthy Saudi family, he put his substantial personal wealth into backing anti-communist Mujahedin. The war raged on for a decade, eventually ending in Soviet withdrawal in 1989, right as the Cold War was ending. The USSR began dissolution and was eventually completely disbanded on Christmas Day, 1991.

Osama Bin Ladin saw this as a sign from Allah: He fought a superpower and won. He took on one of the two most powerful nations on Earth and in his mind, forced it to complete collapse (he basically attributed the entire collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War to his actions in Afghanistan). Needless to say, this did wonders for his ego.

Right after the Soviet withdrawal, Saddam Hussein does the dumbest thing he ever did. Iraq invaded ...


Hunh. I always figured OBL was a schizo, but this form of crazy explains how he was able to put together 9/11 (coherency is not typical for schizos). Thanks! :)
 
2013-01-27 05:55:53 PM

Silverstaff: Dokushin: We killed their soldiers while they were trying to invade South Korea, occupying cities and executing every educated person they could find as a "security threat". We weren't the aggressors in that war, nor were the people we were defending. They should be pissed at their leaders, not the friends of the people they attempted to conquer.

I know. I never said we were the aggressors.

However, the average people of Best Korea know only what Dear Leader/Dear Successor/Dear Donut Depository tell them, and the official story is that the US is the evil empire ect.

The fact that the US is really the only thing keeping Best Korea from restarting the Korean War and probably winning (or at least making it a very bloody fight) is reason for them to be pissed. Yeah, we aren't the aggressors, but that doesn't mean they'll like us.

The whole point of this was that PsiChick didn't know why NK hates the US, because of the lackluster and shamefully inadequate coverage of post World War II history in US public schools. They have a reason to hate us, it might be that we thwarted their plan for conquest of the Korean peninsula, but it's a reason.

To them, we are their single greatest nemesis, that which keeps blocking them from their dreams of conquest and domination. To us they are just another adversary on our list of local bad guys to keep in check.


Right on. You know better than I do, it sounds like -- your posts are fascinating; newsletter, etc. Sorry if I sounded defensive. :D
 
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