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(AZ Family)   Woman who posted her wish on Facebook while at work gets to see it come true. "I wish I could get fired some days, it would be easier to be at home than to have to go through this"   (azfamily.com) divider line 170
    More: Dumbass, Facebook, Christine LaCroix, National Labor Relations Act, Daily Star  
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14861 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 9:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-24 10:01:06 AM

JackieRabbit: McPoonDanlcrat: Reason #4859384 for not being on Facebook

I think the number is a lot higher than that. Folks, if you think your HR (or IT) department isn't scanning social media and other sites for what you are doing, both on and off duty, think again. Using a pseudonym will not save you.


i1197.photobucket.com

Presented to you for the most interesting conspiracy theory of the day.
 
2013-01-24 10:01:17 AM

Smoky Dragon Dish: One simple rule: Don't post anything on facebook you wouldn't want your mother or your boss to see.
Are we supposed to feel bad for these people?

[iusedtohavehair.files.wordpress.com image 430x555]


Better:

"I don't always derp, but when I do, I make sure everyone with internet access can know about it, and attribute it to me."
 
2013-01-24 10:03:26 AM
If you are not a teenager or a bored housewife what the hell are you doing on facebook??
 
2013-01-24 10:04:23 AM

The Angry Hand of God: Write whatever you want on Facebook, just don't be so god damned stupid to have your boss as your "friend."


Or any of your coworkers. In France, some people got fired because one of their coworker "friends" rated them to their boss. It was a comment that was solely destined for the friend list, and was not public whatsoever.
 
2013-01-24 10:04:49 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: I suspected we had key loggers installed


I don't know your employer, and I'm not defending things like keyloggers. That being said, many large and well known enterprises have keyloggers on all corporate machines. The odds are not as small as you might think.

Understand that whatever IT has done they are doing because /your/ boss, or someone above your boss has asked them to do it. These things cost money, time and resources and are looked down upon by people in IT. Generally IT people only like them insofar as making sure that people aren't emailing out private health records of running afoul of SEC rules or the like.
 
2013-01-24 10:05:17 AM

JackieRabbit: KingsleyZisou: In fact this sort of speech is specifically protected. They can't fire her for what she said.

No, it is not, and yes, they can. It may not seem fair, but that's the way it is. Your employer cannot fire you for your political views or religious beliefs, but that's about as far as your free speech guarantee protects you.


politics and religion are not the limits of protected speech. federal labor law protects certain types of labor related speech.

National Labor Relations Act, section 7:

***

RIGHTS OF EMPLOYEES

Sec. 7. [§ 157.] Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain from any or all such activities except to the extent that such right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 8(a)(3) [section 158(a)(3) of this title].

***

work related speech whose purpose is for collective bargaining or mutual aid and protection is protected. here, the labor board said her speech didn't reach that level. had she made the speech more about the conditions of her employment, and other employees would have read it, it probably would have been protected.
 
2013-01-24 10:05:34 AM

karmaceutical: If you are not a teenager or a bored housewife what the hell are you doing on facebook??


Where else am I gonna hear about the odor, color, and texture of my friends' baby poops?
 
2013-01-24 10:06:38 AM

KingsleyZisou: MythDragon: While I think it's stupid to biatch about your job on social media where anyone could see (such as your boss) I don't think it's right to get fired over it. People are entitled to their opinions. If I was a boss, and I hear a worker tell another they hate their job, I chalk it up to venting between to people. If they come tell me they hate their job (and it's not something that should be fixed by me, such as 'water cooler too far away' or 'can't play games at work') then I'd suggest they find a job they do like.

In fact this sort of speech is specifically protected. They can't fire her for what she said.

/they CAN fire her for using social media at work while clocked in
//oh hai boss...


We have a no social media use while working policy. I know people check FB and such on their phones at breaks and it's ok. However, I had a night shift employee posting, during working hours, that she was bored, wished there was some more excitement, and that she was pissed that she didn't have more time off (our employees get 4 weeks paid vacation and two weeks of sick time a year). After about two weeks of this one of her coworkers told me about this; so I checked out her FB wall that she, for some stupid reason, left public. I made copies of two-three posts a night that she was working, copied her time sheets and the schedule for those pay periods and sent her on her merry way. Unemployment denied her claim because A) She violated our policies and B) She obviously didn't care enough to tell her supervisor that she was dissatisfied.

/And this is why I am glad fark isn't specifically prohibited in our social media policy.
 
2013-01-24 10:12:37 AM
Maybe people should work at work and do personal stuff on their own time? Before Facebook and cell phones, people didn't pull out the newspaper and read it at their desk, did they? It seems like all they do now is.........oops gotta go, somebody's coming down the hall.
 
2013-01-24 10:12:56 AM
I wish I was dead some days, it would be easier to be dead than to have to go through this...
 
2013-01-24 10:15:40 AM

vodka: This reminds me of the dinosaur media companies. The fact is, employers are going to have to adjust to the employees, not the other way around. There are generations of people coming up that post every thought on the Internet. That isn't going to change so unless they want no employees they are going to have to adapt.


LOL, no. STFU and GBTW.
 
2013-01-24 10:17:05 AM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Popcorn Johnny: Have any cases like this made their way through the court system.  I'm not convinced  that employers have the right to fire somebody for comments made by somebody on their own time.

So if you're paying someone to do a job for you, and they publicly ridicule you while under your employment, you'd be cool with that? Should employers have the right to publicly ridicule their employees?


I think that would be a lawsuit waiting to happen. Hostile work environment, etc.

/ianal
 
2013-01-24 10:19:34 AM
Assume everything you post anywhere on the internet is viewable by the general public and you'll be fine, if you're not excessively stupid.
 
2013-01-24 10:20:35 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Because, "Just give us a reason to fire you!" employment is the new American reality.


Ha. Not where I work.
 
2013-01-24 10:22:03 AM

karmaceutical: If you are not a teenager or a bored housewife what the hell are you doing on facebook??


shut-in pretending to have friends
 
2013-01-24 10:22:10 AM

JackieRabbit: KingsleyZisou: In fact this sort of speech is specifically protected. They can't fire her for what she said.

No, it is not, and yes, they can. It may not seem fair, but that's the way it is. Your employer cannot fire you for your political views or religious beliefs, but that's about as far as your free speech guarantee protects you.


You might want to check the National Labor Relations Act, specifically section 7. Sorry I can't link from my mobile device.

Punishing someone for saying this stuff produces "a chilling effect" on the rights of workers to organize and form unions. At least that's the NLRB's position. Is it right? Well the courts haven't said anything yet. But NLRB is aggressively pursuing this issue.

/why yes I am writing my company's social media policy
 
2013-01-24 10:23:22 AM

FTDA: JackieRabbit: McPoonDanlcrat: Reason #4859384 for not being on Facebook

I think the number is a lot higher than that. Folks, if you think your HR (or IT) department isn't scanning social media and other sites for what you are doing, both on and off duty, think again. Using a pseudonym will not save you.

[i1197.photobucket.com image 399x582]

Presented to you for the most interesting conspiracy theory of the day.


You aren't very bright, are you? It's not a conspiracy theory. We know it isn't because here's and FA about how someone got caught. The company I work for does it every day and knows exactly what employees are doing (looking for a job, posting disparaging comments about the company, revealing proprietary information, etc.). Hell, buddy, there are a number of softwares available just for this purpose and any network administrator worth can capture/read packets to/from a specific MAC or IP address on his network. What you don't know can hurt you. Best policy: don't bad-mouth your job on the internet. And if your HR department has its own recruiters, let your boss know you're looking for a new job. They are going to find out anyway.
 
2013-01-24 10:26:34 AM

ongbok: FullMetalPanda: Wait, wait, wait!!! What if...this is a IF, I post on Face Book that I wish my employer would hire a bunch of super hot women to fark my brains out on a daily basis?

You would be fired because now you are liability in the office if any woman in the office ever chooses to file a sexual harassment or discrimination claim.

Don't talk to anybody at work about anything except for work. And don't use Facebook.


But what if I fark somebody from work? Are we allowed to talk about it at work?
 
2013-01-24 10:26:39 AM
I think it's funny
be careful what you wish for

One of my bosses is on my fb
but I never use names, and he digs all the insane shiat I post
He's a bishop at his church and a secret perv so it works out great
climbing class=rope class
andy (she was dancing with andy)= st andrew's cross
hanging from the rafters=hook/suspension
apparently my weekends are far more interesting than his
 
2013-01-24 10:28:12 AM

vodka: This reminds me of the dinosaur media companies. The fact is, employers are going to have to adjust to the employees, not the other way around. There are generations of people coming up that post every thought on the Internet. That isn't going to change so unless they want no employees they are going to have to adapt.


I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to adjust to keep a job. Unless you are independently wealthy, you're pretty much going to have to STFU.
 
2013-01-24 10:29:39 AM

spunkymunky: KingsleyZisou: MythDragon: While I think it's stupid to biatch about your job on social media where anyone could see (such as your boss) I don't think it's right to get fired over it. People are entitled to their opinions. If I was a boss, and I hear a worker tell another they hate their job, I chalk it up to venting between to people. If they come tell me they hate their job (and it's not something that should be fixed by me, such as 'water cooler too far away' or 'can't play games at work') then I'd suggest they find a job they do like.

In fact this sort of speech is specifically protected. They can't fire her for what she said.

/they CAN fire her for using social media at work while clocked in
//oh hai boss...

We have a no social media use while working policy. I know people check FB and such on their phones at breaks and it's ok. However, I had a night shift employee posting, during working hours, that she was bored, wished there was some more excitement, and that she was pissed that she didn't have more time off (our employees get 4 weeks paid vacation and two weeks of sick time a year). After about two weeks of this one of her coworkers told me about this; so I checked out her FB wall that she, for some stupid reason, left public. I made copies of two-three posts a night that she was working, copied her time sheets and the schedule for those pay periods and sent her on her merry way. Unemployment denied her claim because A) She violated our policies and B) She obviously didn't care enough to tell her supervisor that she was dissatisfied.

/And this is why I am glad fark isn't specifically prohibited in our social media policy.


Sorry if I wasn't clear. You likely don't need a policy governing social media use at work. But you likely already have a policy that says basically while at work you do your job and not goof around. That's what you can use to fire someone and it seems you did. Kudos to you for focusing on the actions and not the words.
 
2013-01-24 10:29:53 AM

JackieRabbit: FTDA: JackieRabbit: McPoonDanlcrat: Reason #4859384 for not being on Facebook

I think the number is a lot higher than that. Folks, if you think your HR (or IT) department isn't scanning social media and other sites for what you are doing, both on and off duty, think again. Using a pseudonym will not save you.

[i1197.photobucket.com image 399x582]

Presented to you for the most interesting conspiracy theory of the day.

You aren't very bright, are you? It's not a conspiracy theory. We know it isn't because here's and FA about how someone got caught. The company I work for does it every day and knows exactly what employees are doing (looking for a job, posting disparaging comments about the company, revealing proprietary information, etc.). Hell, buddy, there are a number of softwares available just for this purpose and any network administrator worth can capture/read packets to/from a specific MAC or IP address on his network. What you don't know can hurt you. Best policy: don't bad-mouth your job on the internet. And if your HR department has its own recruiters, let your boss know you're looking for a new job. They are going to find out anyway.


One of my friends was telling about this place he once worked at were it was policy that once you were hired that you had to delete any profiles you had on any job boards. After you were hired you got 1 warning if they found out you didn't comply, after that it was immediate grounds for termination.
 
2013-01-24 10:35:10 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Have any cases like this made their way through the court system.  I'm not convinced  that employers have the right to fire somebody for comments made by somebody on their own time.


Depending on the state, you do not need a valid reason to fire someone. You just cannot fire someone for an illegal reason.

But negative work attitude and complaining in public about your work conditions are most definitely actionable, no matter the state.
 
2013-01-24 10:35:55 AM

karmaceutical: If you are not a teenager or a bored housewife what the hell are you doing on facebook??


Because it was a slow day on FARK?
 
2013-01-24 10:36:15 AM

ongbok: JackieRabbit: FTDA: JackieRabbit: McPoonDanlcrat: Reason #4859384 for not being on Facebook

I think the number is a lot higher than that. Folks, if you think your HR (or IT) department isn't scanning social media and other sites for what you are doing, both on and off duty, think again. Using a pseudonym will not save you.

[i1197.photobucket.com image 399x582]

Presented to you for the most interesting conspiracy theory of the day.

You aren't very bright, are you? It's not a conspiracy theory. We know it isn't because here's and FA about how someone got caught. The company I work for does it every day and knows exactly what employees are doing (looking for a job, posting disparaging comments about the company, revealing proprietary information, etc.). Hell, buddy, there are a number of softwares available just for this purpose and any network administrator worth can capture/read packets to/from a specific MAC or IP address on his network. What you don't know can hurt you. Best policy: don't bad-mouth your job on the internet. And if your HR department has its own recruiters, let your boss know you're looking for a new job. They are going to find out anyway.

One of my friends was telling about this place he once worked at were it was policy that once you were hired that you had to delete any profiles you had on any job boards. After you were hired you got 1 warning if they found out you didn't comply, after that it was immediate grounds for termination.


Wow. That sounds unethical if not outright illegal.

/I might have passed on that job
 
2013-01-24 10:36:15 AM
You can be fired for pretty much anything that isn't protected. And even those protections on the federal level only apply to companies with more than 15 employees (Your state may have protective status laws in addition to the federal ones). If I all of a sudden decide that I don't like converse shoes, I can go ahead and fire everyone who wears converse shoes legally (barring an employment agreement that prevents it, and being in a right to work state). Now that employee may be allowed to receive unemployment because their termination was without reasonable cause but I certainly wouldn't be held to any further compensation because of your chuck taylors. Now if i were to inform an employee before hand so that they knew of the terminable offense of wearing chuck taylors before hand, and they did so anyways, that would be considered termination with cause, because the employee knew they could be fired for wearing converse shoes.

Now for facebook, you could fire someone for anything they say, on work time or off work time, whether you're an hourly employee or a salaried employee. If they said they hate salt on their margarita glasses and you don't want someone who believes that to work for you, peace out, you're fired. If they like the Mets and youre a Yankees fan, and you refuse to work with Mets fans, peace out, you're fired. The only protection of speech in social media has to with your right to form a union and discuss working conditions / compensation with other employees to establish fair practices between employees. So if you say "I hate my job, the pay is shiat, and my boss is unfair" you can be fired for that unless it forms a discussion between employees in agreeance and what they should do about it to change it. The simple way for it to become protected, regardless if you were able to start a discussion between coworkers, would be to phrase it as "I'm beginning to hate my job because the pay is shiat, and my boss is very unfair, do any of my coworkers feel the same?". That could be shown as you attempting to start a discussion with coworkers (or former coworkers) about your working conditions in an attempt to improve them or make them more fair, which is a protected federal labor law.
 
2013-01-24 10:36:45 AM

KingsleyZisou: JackieRabbit: KingsleyZisou: In fact this sort of speech is specifically protected. They can't fire her for what she said.

No, it is not, and yes, they can. It may not seem fair, but that's the way it is. Your employer cannot fire you for your political views or religious beliefs, but that's about as far as your free speech guarantee protects you.

You might want to check the National Labor Relations Act, specifically section 7. Sorry I can't link from my mobile device.

Punishing someone for saying this stuff produces "a chilling effect" on the rights of workers to organize and form unions. At least that's the NLRB's position. Is it right? Well the courts haven't said anything yet. But NLRB is aggressively pursuing this issue.

/why yes I am writing my company's social media policy


Section 7 of the NLRA act does not apply in this case. Summarized language from the NLB site:

"Key Provisions

The most important sections of the NLRA are Sections 7, 8, and 9.
Section 7, is the heart of the NLRA. It defines protected activity. Stripped to its essential, it reads:

Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid and protection.

Section 7 applies to a wide range of union an collective activities. In addition to organizing, it protects employees who take part in grievances, on-the-job protests, picketing, and strikes.
"

Your boss can't fire you for trying to organize a union or for participating in one, but he can fire you for having a bad attitude about your job and posting it to the internet.
 
2013-01-24 10:37:50 AM

MycroftHolmes: Popcorn Johnny: Have any cases like this made their way through the court system.  I'm not convinced  that employers have the right to fire somebody for comments made by somebody on their own time.

Depending on the state, you do not need a valid reason to fire someone. You just cannot fire someone for an illegal reason.

But negative work attitude and complaining in public about your work conditions are most definitely actionable, no matter the state.


Scratch "complaining about your work" conditions and you're right.
 
2013-01-24 10:38:43 AM

MythDragon: While I think it's stupid to biatch about your job on social media where anyone could see (such as your boss) I don't think it's right to get fired over it. People are entitled to their opinions. If I was a boss, and I hear a worker tell another they hate their job, I chalk it up to venting between to people. If they come tell me they hate their job (and it's not something that should be fixed by me, such as 'water cooler too far away' or 'can't play games at work') then I'd suggest they find a job they do like.


People are entitled to their opinions. They are not entitled to their jobs.

I happen to agree with you, though, about venting. I always told my guys that venting is natural, just take it offiste or someplace where they couldn't be overheard. If I had a guy actively undermining the credibility of my department by complaining to outsiders about his job, the company, or his boss, he would likely be written up and ultimately fired.
 
2013-01-24 10:39:49 AM

FullMetalPanda: Wait, wait, wait!!! What if...this is a IF, I post on Face Book that I wish my employer would hire a bunch of super hot women to fark my brains out on a daily basis?


no you wouldn't be fired for writing an impossibility.
 
2013-01-24 10:41:00 AM

JackieRabbit: KingsleyZisou: JackieRabbit: KingsleyZisou: In fact this sort of speech is specifically protected. They can't fire her for what she said.

No, it is not, and yes, they can. It may not seem fair, but that's the way it is. Your employer cannot fire you for your political views or religious beliefs, but that's about as far as your free speech guarantee protects you.

You might want to check the National Labor Relations Act, specifically section 7. Sorry I can't link from my mobile device.

Punishing someone for saying this stuff produces "a chilling effect" on the rights of workers to organize and form unions. At least that's the NLRB's position. Is it right? Well the courts haven't said anything yet. But NLRB is aggressively pursuing this issue.

/why yes I am writing my company's social media policy

Section 7 of the NLRA act does not apply in this case. Summarized language from the NLB site:

"Key Provisions

The most important sections of the NLRA are Sections 7, 8, and 9.
Section 7, is the heart of the NLRA. It defines protected activity. Stripped to its essential, it reads:

Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid and protection.

Section 7 applies to a wide range of union an collective activities. In addition to organizing, it protects employees who take part in grievances, on-the-job protests, picketing, and strikes."

Your boss can't fire you for trying to organize a union or for participating in one, but he can fire you for having a bad attitude about your job and posting it to the internet.


The OGC's memorandum to American medical response of Connecticut and their memo on social media cases published in August of 2011 beg to differ.
 
2013-01-24 10:41:23 AM
Maybe I read the article wrong, but didn't this lady get exactly what she asked for?

She said (in essence) that she wanted to be fired - and was subsequently fired. How is this not a "be careful what you ask for" situation?

/ Here comes my boss - back to the helpdesk app.
 
2013-01-24 10:41:25 AM

pute kisses like a man: but, since it appeared there was a reason to fire her, specifically her comment, the issue becomes whether her comment was protected. certain things under the right circumstances are protected. most relevent, discussions of work problems that ultimately have the goal of bettering the working relationship, for example, attempts to organize the workforce to say, hey, this sucks, fix this.


KingsleyZisou: In fact this sort of speech is specifically protected. They can't fire her for what she said.



Can either of you guys elaborate on the types of comments that are protected? I did not know about this and now my interest is piqued.
 
2013-01-24 10:44:26 AM

padraig: Or any of your coworkers. In France, some people got fired because one of their coworker "friends" rated them to their boss. It was a comment that was solely destined for the friend list, and was not public whatsoever.


Because, as we all know, when you send things to your friends on the internet, there isn't the slightest chance it will ever spread further.
 
2013-01-24 10:47:09 AM

durbnpoisn: I'm friends with my boss on Facebook. But I've known her for 10 years longer than I've been working here. And in any case, we never say shiat about work on FB.


Still the best policy. The hens around here are all on each other's FB, and it constantly causes problems when one biatches about another or how someone works.
 
2013-01-24 10:47:11 AM

McPoonDanlcrat: Reason #4859384 for not being on Facebook


This.
 
2013-01-24 10:48:43 AM
This is an NLRB memorandum we used to help draft our social media policy last year. It's a year old, but i'm pretty sure this is still the stance of the NLRB on social media policies. It includes a few case examples.

It's 35 pages long, so if you're interested, have at it.

NLRB Memorandom OM 12-31
 
2013-01-24 10:49:11 AM

mooseyfate: Popcorn Johnny: Have any cases like this made their way through the court system.  I'm not convinced  that employers have the right to fire somebody for comments made by somebody on their own time.

If it was made during work hours, Adios motherfarker.


Was facebook blocked by the IT dept? Was there a policy stating not to go on these sites during work hours? Was that clearly stated to employees? Were there any previous verbal or written warnings?

You're skipping the legal parts.

I'm not convinced this would fly here in Toronto and have never heard of it happening.
 
2013-01-24 10:49:13 AM

JackieRabbit: McPoonDanlcrat: Reason #4859384 for not being on Facebook

I think the number is a lot higher than that. Folks, if you think your HR (or IT) department isn't scanning social media and other sites for what you are doing, both on and off duty, think again. Using a pseudonym will not save you.


I don't perceive HR or IT people to be any level of common sense smart; so I'm sure people get away with saying certain things without alerting those guys.
 
2013-01-24 10:50:06 AM

KingsleyZisou: ongbok: JackieRabbit: FTDA: JackieRabbit: McPoonDanlcrat: Reason #4859384 for not being on Facebook

I think the number is a lot higher than that. Folks, if you think your HR (or IT) department isn't scanning social media and other sites for what you are doing, both on and off duty, think again. Using a pseudonym will not save you.

[i1197.photobucket.com image 399x582]

Presented to you for the most interesting conspiracy theory of the day.

You aren't very bright, are you? It's not a conspiracy theory. We know it isn't because here's and FA about how someone got caught. The company I work for does it every day and knows exactly what employees are doing (looking for a job, posting disparaging comments about the company, revealing proprietary information, etc.). Hell, buddy, there are a number of softwares available just for this purpose and any network administrator worth can capture/read packets to/from a specific MAC or IP address on his network. What you don't know can hurt you. Best policy: don't bad-mouth your job on the internet. And if your HR department has its own recruiters, let your boss know you're looking for a new job. They are going to find out anyway.

One of my friends was telling about this place he once worked at were it was policy that once you were hired that you had to delete any profiles you had on any job boards. After you were hired you got 1 warning if they found out you didn't comply, after that it was immediate grounds for termination.

Wow. That sounds unethical if not outright illegal.

/I might have passed on that job


The thing is is that it was in the terms of employment agreement that they signed when they were hired. Nobody ever reads through that, so most people didn't know it was there until they received their first and only warning a few weeks into their employment.
 
2013-01-24 10:53:46 AM

JackieRabbit: FTDA: JackieRabbit: McPoonDanlcrat: Reason #4859384 for not being on Facebook

I think the number is a lot higher than that. Folks, if you think your HR (or IT) department isn't scanning social media and other sites for what you are doing, both on and off duty, think again. Using a pseudonym will not save you.

[i1197.photobucket.com image 399x582]

Presented to you for the most interesting conspiracy theory of the day.

You aren't very bright, are you? It's not a conspiracy theory. We know it isn't because here's and FA about how someone got caught. The company I work for does it every day and knows exactly what employees are doing (looking for a job, posting disparaging comments about the company, revealing proprietary information, etc.). Hell, buddy, there are a number of softwares available just for this purpose and any network administrator worth can capture/read packets to/from a specific MAC or IP address on his network. What you don't know can hurt you. Best policy: don't bad-mouth your job on the internet. And if your HR department has its own recruiters, let your boss know you're looking for a new job. They are going to find out anyway.


The article didn't say how the former employee was caught, just that she was caught. Please keep insinuating that every company in the world has deep enough pockets or the inclination to afford the software, infrastructure, and bandwidth to implement the monitoring system you speak of. Yes the software exists, but not everyone's using it.
 
2013-01-24 10:55:04 AM

MycroftHolmes: pute kisses like a man: but, since it appeared there was a reason to fire her, specifically her comment, the issue becomes whether her comment was protected. certain things under the right circumstances are protected. most relevent, discussions of work problems that ultimately have the goal of bettering the working relationship, for example, attempts to organize the workforce to say, hey, this sucks, fix this.

KingsleyZisou: In fact this sort of speech is specifically protected. They can't fire her for what she said.


Can either of you guys elaborate on the types of comments that are protected? I did not know about this and now my interest is piqued.


Pute posted the NLRA section up thread. To try and put it in common parlance: any speech that can be construed to pertain to the organization of workers is protected. You organize to bargain collectively. So things like working conditions, pay, and hours are all fair game. This includes vague references such as "my job sucks" and even "my boss is an asshole."

Another way that might be easier to think about it is what speech isn't protected. Defaming someone or the company isn't. You for instance can't talk about your boss's sexual orientation (unless it deals with work like "she only promotes other straight women").

This all stems from a period in history when organized labor was becoming more powerful. It's really too bad that it became synonymous with corruption and in many ways lost the longer war with big business.
 
2013-01-24 10:55:12 AM

Red_Fox: mooseyfate: Popcorn Johnny: Have any cases like this made their way through the court system.  I'm not convinced  that employers have the right to fire somebody for comments made by somebody on their own time.

If it was made during work hours, Adios motherfarker.

Was facebook blocked by the IT dept? Was there a policy stating not to go on these sites during work hours? Was that clearly stated to employees? Were there any previous verbal or written warnings?

You're skipping the legal parts.

I'm not convinced this would fly here in Toronto and have never heard of it happening.


I'm pretty sure that there aren't any policies saying not to piss in the bathroom floor, but if you do it I'm sure you will get fired. Going to these sites would probably be covered under using work time for personal business or using work time improperly, which would be used against you if your company wanted to get rid of you.
 
2013-01-24 10:56:36 AM

Rwa2play: I don't perceive HR or IT people to be any level of common sense smart


Posted that at work, did ya?

IT doesn't have time to follow your damn facebook posts because we're too busy trying to retrieve your files you stupidly deleted for no apparent reason. If we want to know what you're doing we'll put an app on your pc to spy on everything you do so we don't have to waste our time doing it.
 
2013-01-24 10:56:42 AM

KingsleyZisou: The OGC's memorandum to American medical response of Connecticut and their memo on social media cases published in August of 2011 beg to differ.


This memo is considered high highly controversial and viewed my many legal scholars in the field as over-reaching and a misinterpretation of the NLRA by the NLRB. Had AMR challenged in court, they would probably have won, since AMR is a non-union company and so, the NLRB would not have applied unless the activity in question - to wit, posting disparaging comments about the company to social media without prior permission - was in connection with union organization or other collective bargaining.

But without regard to the NLRA, most states now are at will, which means that an employer can terminate you anytime they want. Such termination is supposed to be for case, because of a lack of work, or for the elimination of a given position. In practice, however, it is very difficult to bring a wrongful termination action against employers in these states.

So if you hate your job find another and move on or change your attitude, if that isn't possible. If you are terminated and receive a severance package, your severance agreement will have a non-disparagement clause. You can count on that, unless your employer is a moron.
 
2013-01-24 11:00:22 AM
@ongbok oh I figured it was in the contract. Doesn't make it right.

/ever since I started working in compliance I started reading eulas
//curse your constant updates iTunes!
///a talented attorney might try to make that a UDAP violation
 
2013-01-24 11:01:01 AM
These stories are always amusing.
 
2013-01-24 11:03:15 AM

KidneyStone: The Angry Hand of God: Write whatever you want on Facebook, just don't be so god damned stupid to have your boss as your "friend."

Make that "don't have coworkers as 'friends.'". If there's one thing I learned after almost a decade of internal investigations it's that many coworkers with rat you out for no apparent reason or gain.


THIS x 1000

& they're usually gossipy as hell, so the less info they have, the better.

/computer forensics for 15 years
 
2013-01-24 11:03:34 AM

ongbok: I'm pretty sure that there aren't any policies saying not to piss in the bathroom floor, but if you do it I'm sure you will get fired. Going to these sites would probably be covered under using work time for personal business or using work time improperly, which would be used against you if your company wanted to get rid of you.


Even so....if you're past your probationary period that is not enough to legally fire someone on the first warning where I live. They'd have to give you at least one warning and most likely 2 warnings before they can legally fire you.

But then again maybe you're from the USA where you allow yourselves to be randomly drug tested for regular office jobs....that would totally be a violation of our personal rights and freedoms up here. So yeah I guess in a country that would treat it's employees that way probably would fire you over something so trivial as this.
 
2013-01-24 11:03:48 AM

KingsleyZisou: MycroftHolmes: pute kisses like a man: but, since it appeared there was a reason to fire her, specifically her comment, the issue becomes whether her comment was protected. certain things under the right circumstances are protected. most relevent, discussions of work problems that ultimately have the goal of bettering the working relationship, for example, attempts to organize the workforce to say, hey, this sucks, fix this.

KingsleyZisou: In fact this sort of speech is specifically protected. They can't fire her for what she said.


Can either of you guys elaborate on the types of comments that are protected? I did not know about this and now my interest is piqued.

Pute posted the NLRA section up thread. To try and put it in common parlance: any speech that can be construed to pertain to the organization of workers is protected. You organize to bargain collectively. So things like working conditions, pay, and hours are all fair game. This includes vague references such as "my job sucks" and even "my boss is an asshole."

Another way that might be easier to think about it is what speech isn't protected. Defaming someone or the company isn't. You for instance can't talk about your boss's sexual orientation (unless it deals with work like "she only promotes other straight women").

This all stems from a period in history when organized labor was becoming more powerful. It's really too bad that it became synonymous with corruption and in many ways lost the longer war with big business.


No it doesn't. The discussions can not be vague, they have to actually show intent to discuss things like working conditions, benefits, and compensation or you run the risk of being fired over it. It can become protected simply by coworkers responding and agreeing with the facebook status, because even though the initial intent was not to begin a discussion, it can evolve into that discussion.
 
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