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(PJ Media)   Politifacts; We lied about our "Lie of the Year" which wasn't a lie and was the Truth   (pjmedia.com) divider line 167
    More: Obvious, Christopher Stevens, piling  
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2013-01-24 05:35:36 AM  

OgreMagi: So let me see if I understand this. Romney was called out as lying when he said Jeep was moving to China. And Chrysler (who owns the Jeep brand) recently said they are considering a move of production to China to cut costs, but it is still a lie because, uhm, er, ROMNEY!


[citation needed]

Pretty sure they  havesaid they want to increase production in China for the Chinese market.  Haven't seen them say anything about moving production of US Jeeps to China.  Did I miss something?
 
2013-01-24 05:35:59 AM  
But the thrust of the matter

media.townhall.com
 
2013-01-24 05:42:39 AM  
What's the purpose of trying to convince us that what Romney said wasn't really, technically, untrue - just dishonest and disingenuous? You'd be better off telling the next guy not to lie so much, if you want to have a chance of winning.
 
2013-01-24 05:44:06 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-24 05:47:55 AM  

dbirchall: OgreMagi: So let me see if I understand this. Romney was called out as lying when he said Jeep was moving to China. And Chrysler (who owns the Jeep brand) recently said they are considering a move of production to China to cut costs, but it is still a lie because, uhm, er, ROMNEY!

[citation needed]

Pretty sure they  havesaid they want to increase production in China for the Chinese market.  Haven't seen them say anything about moving production of US Jeeps to China.  Did I miss something?


Nope, you got it. Jeep is increasing production in both the US and China. Romney tried to play that as Jeep moving US jobs TO China, which was a ridiculous whopper of a lie.

That said, I don't particularly care what Politifact has to say after they called the Democratic charge that Republicans wanted to "end medicare as we knew it" as the lie of the year in 2011. Trouble is, it happened to be entirely true- the Republicans were attempting to convert it to a voucher system. That smelled very strongly of a "look at us, we're willing to call BOTH sides out, so please believe us!" move, which subverts their claimed mission of, you know, comparing claims to objective fact.
 
2013-01-24 05:54:32 AM  
Politifact tries to dodge the issue by saying they were addressing the implication of the ad rather than what the ad actually said.

In other words, exactly what Politifact does for every ad they analyze, and exactly what the organization was founded to do. Additionally, what they explicitly stated in the article in question, which outlined very exactly precisely the distinction PJM thinks it's making and why it's a bad distinction to make given the clear intent of the ad.
 
2013-01-24 06:01:45 AM  
Wait.. So there really is cake?
 
2013-01-24 06:12:06 AM  

Sczi: Wait.. So there really is cake?


Up already, and I bet you'll be late.
 
2013-01-24 06:12:37 AM  
This type of thread is why I sometimes regret that $5 a month.
 
2013-01-24 06:13:16 AM  

Sczi: Wait.. So there really is cake?


i.imgur.com

Yes but first you need to put on special goggles and of course agree to murder those bastards on the red team.
 
2013-01-24 06:13:25 AM  

Somacandra: RedPhoenix122: So they're lying about Politifact lying about their Lie of the Year?


Those were two quality posts in a row there, my fine fellow Farker.

That's how it's done, children.

There will be a test. I suggest you take notes and then get off my lawn.
 
2013-01-24 06:23:09 AM  

Victoly: Uchiha_Cycliste: "random picture"

[www.random.org image 300x300]


Your magic-eye picture is broken
 
2013-01-24 06:41:19 AM  
I'm beginning to question the quality of greenlit Fark articles these days. Not to mention the sanity of the admins. Oh well
/Welcometofark.jpg
 
2013-01-24 06:42:03 AM  
TOLD YA SO!!!!! And you, low-information voters elected the liar-in-chief. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
 
2013-01-24 06:44:21 AM  

I sound fat: Considering the election is over and you have nothing to lose, how do keep arguing the point?


Considering the election is over and you have nothing to gain, why do you keep bringing it up?
 
2013-01-24 06:44:59 AM  

thamike: But the thrust of the matter

[media.townhall.com image 400x230]


holy shiat that guy is creepy looking
 
2013-01-24 07:07:41 AM  
That post is bad and you should feel bad.
 
2013-01-24 07:09:21 AM  
Dearest Moderators:

Stop farking trolling us.

Sincerely,

Everyone
 
2013-01-24 07:09:36 AM  

dbirchall: OgreMagi: So let me see if I understand this. Romney was called out as lying when he said Jeep was moving to China. And Chrysler (who owns the Jeep brand) recently said they are considering a move of production to China to cut costs, but it is still a lie because, uhm, er, ROMNEY!

[citation needed]

Pretty sure they  havesaid they want to increase production in China for the Chinese market.  Haven't seen them say anything about moving production of US Jeeps to China.  Did I miss something?


Last week they announced they were opening production in China, so cars that were being built in the U.S. would now be built there. But to call that moving production to China is clearly a mischaracterization, because... um, production and jobs aren't really tangible things, y'know, so you can't actually move them, and they're not moving the workers over there either. Oh, but the Lie of the Year didn't claim moving production.

Straight from the original Politifact article: PolitiFact has selected Romney's claim that Barack Obama "sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China" at the cost of American jobs as the 2012 Lie of the Year.

All true, unless you want to get into whether Obama himself sold Chrysler or if he had someone else do it. Jeep's response to that claim was clearly more lies and technically but not really true statements than the "Lie of the Year" they were rebutting.

Obviously, it doesn't matter at this point from the standpoint of the election, but the fact checkers obviously need to be fact checked, and they clearly missed this one. It really has gotten to a point where you can't believe anything you hear anymore, and that's sad on any number of levels. If Politifact's M.O. is going to be "This is what we inferred, so that's what you said, and now you're a big fat liar" then they're less than worthless.
 
2013-01-24 07:21:59 AM  

Dan the Schman: Oh go f*ck yourself, FarkMods.


THIS times infinity.

Seriously, between this steamin' pile of derp and that greenlit hatchet job on the HuffPo today, somebody has been puttin' a premium on the whargarbbl.
 
2013-01-24 07:25:04 AM  
One thing we all know is that Romney would *never* do anything that would result in 1) Americans losing jobs and 2) a big wad of cash in his Swiss bank account.
 
2013-01-24 07:31:17 AM  
PJ Media, not only are you one of the pioneers that resulted in the phrase "your blog sucks", you also continue to be wrong about objective, observable reality. Perhaps you should re-evaluate you life? Call your mother or other loved one, tell them you hope they have a great day. Or consider killing yourself, you farking human shiatpile.
 
2013-01-24 07:47:23 AM  

Dan the Schman: Oh go th914.photobucket.comrselves, FarkMods.


Improved FY.
 
2013-01-24 07:51:51 AM  
The comments section on that page:
i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-01-24 07:52:38 AM  
Someone at pj did not get the memo that they no longer have to carry water for Romney.
 
2013-01-24 07:56:46 AM  
 
2013-01-24 08:00:05 AM  

Yes please: dbirchall: OgreMagi: So let me see if I understand this. Romney was called out as lying when he said Jeep was moving to China. And Chrysler (who owns the Jeep brand) recently said they are considering a move of production to China to cut costs, but it is still a lie because, uhm, er, ROMNEY!

[citation needed]

Pretty sure they  havesaid they want to increase production in China for the Chinese market.  Haven't seen them say anything about moving production of US Jeeps to China.  Did I miss something?

Last week they announced they were opening production in China, so cars that were being built in the U.S. would now be built there. But to call that moving production to China is clearly a mischaracterization, because... um, production and jobs aren't really tangible things, y'know, so you can't actually move them, and they're not moving the workers over there either. Oh, but the Lie of the Year didn't claim moving production.

Straight from the original Politifact article: PolitiFact has selected Romney's claim that Barack Obama "sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China" at the cost of American jobs as the 2012 Lie of the Year.

All true, unless you want to get into whether Obama himself sold Chrysler or if he had someone else do it. Jeep's response to that claim was clearly more lies and technically but not really true statements than the "Lie of the Year" they were rebutting.

Obviously, it doesn't matter at this point from the standpoint of the election, but the fact checkers obviously need to be fact checked, and they clearly missed this one. It really has gotten to a point where you can't believe anything you hear anymore, and that's sad on any number of levels. If Politifact's M.O. is going to be "This is what we inferred, so that's what you said, and now you're a big fat liar" then they're less than worthless.



So based on something that only recently happened, something someone said MONTHS ago is now suddenly true??? BUT, this was news to me! So I did some searching and it turns out what you are saying is basically the same crock of BS Romney said months ago.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2013/01/22/its-official-jeep-will-build- mo dels-in-china/

First off, love the article. It is misleading in all the right ways while remaining true. From the headline which indicates that Jeep's production is moving to China without saying it to the last article of the paragraph where the writer veers off-road into speculation based on nothing. But the meat of the article is this: production in China is increasing because sales in China increased. In another article it said Jeep had its best year ever in 2012. No article about American jobs being cut, or scaled back, or exported. Just some speculation, based on nothing, tossed into an article about how production is increasing in a foreign market that is currently expanding.

In other words, the EXACT same scenario that happened months ago during the election. It gets reported that production in China is increasing (because sales there increased), GOP decides that means American jobs are being exported, they breathlessly declared this to be so without any fact to back it up, get their panties in a twist when called on it.
 
2013-01-24 08:01:59 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-24 08:03:28 AM  
It was my impression the problem was not the veracity, but the hypocrisy.

I thought that Bain Capital bought out some company in the mid-west and not only moved production to China, they also unbolted the machinery and moved it to China. Then they sent the soon-to-be fired employees to China to train their replacements.
 
2013-01-24 08:08:48 AM  
A lie by implication is a lie.
 
2013-01-24 08:09:27 AM  
JESUS TITTY-FARKING CHRIST, DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS CHRYSLER SHIAT AGAIN?!?!?!?! WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS SEVERAL TIMES NOW.
 
2013-01-24 08:11:12 AM  
I'm actually just going to play it safe and assume that Pajamas Media is lying.
 
2013-01-24 08:12:52 AM  
Keep violating those chickens and skewing those polls, dimwits. You guys are making great progress on losing the House in 2014.
 
2013-01-24 08:17:23 AM  

burning_bridge: Yes please: dbirchall: OgreMagi: So let me see if I understand this. Romney was called out as lying when he said Jeep was moving to China. And Chrysler (who owns the Jeep brand) recently said they are considering a move of production to China to cut costs, but it is still a lie because, uhm, er, ROMNEY!

[citation needed]

Pretty sure they  havesaid they want to increase production in China for the Chinese market.  Haven't seen them say anything about moving production of US Jeeps to China.  Did I miss something?

Last week they announced they were opening production in China, so cars that were being built in the U.S. would now be built there. But to call that moving production to China is clearly a mischaracterization, because... um, production and jobs aren't really tangible things, y'know, so you can't actually move them, and they're not moving the workers over there either. Oh, but the Lie of the Year didn't claim moving production.

Straight from the original Politifact article: PolitiFact has selected Romney's claim that Barack Obama "sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China" at the cost of American jobs as the 2012 Lie of the Year.

All true, unless you want to get into whether Obama himself sold Chrysler or if he had someone else do it. Jeep's response to that claim was clearly more lies and technically but not really true statements than the "Lie of the Year" they were rebutting.

Obviously, it doesn't matter at this point from the standpoint of the election, but the fact checkers obviously need to be fact checked, and they clearly missed this one. It really has gotten to a point where you can't believe anything you hear anymore, and that's sad on any number of levels. If Politifact's M.O. is going to be "This is what we inferred, so that's what you said, and now you're a big fat liar" then they're less than worthless.


So based on something that only recently happened, something someone said MONTHS ago is now suddenly true??? BUT, this was news to me! So I did some searching and it turns out what you are saying is basically the same crock of BS Romney said months ago.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2013/01/22/its-official-jeep-will-build- mo dels-in-china/

First off, love the article. It is misleading in all the right ways while remaining true. From the headline which indicates that Jeep's production is moving to China without saying it to the last article of the paragraph where the writer veers off-road into speculation based on nothing. But the meat of the article is this: production in China is increasing because sales in China increased. In another article it said Jeep had its best year ever in 2012. No article about American jobs being cut, or scaled back, or exported. Just some speculation, based on nothing, tossed into an article about how production is increasing in a foreign market that is currently expanding.

In other words, the EXACT same scenario that happened months ago during the election. It gets reported that production in China is increasing (because sales there increased), GOP decides that means American jobs are being exported, they breathlessly declared this to be so without any fact to back it up, get their panties in a twist when called on it.


"Are going to build" is in the future tense, which means it will happen in the future. And it is. Not six hundred years later, but just a few months. And if you know anything about how major corporations work, that almost certainly means Chrysler was already beyond the point of simply considering it, while simultaneously denying it would ever happen. Even if they had never even thought about it before, it still turns out to be true. Politifact absolutely blew it, and to insist they did anything else is just stubborn. If they're going to call people out as liars and call themselves Politifact, they should stick to what can be proven.
 
2013-01-24 08:19:56 AM  

Dan the Schman: Oh go f*ck yourself, FarkMods.

 
2013-01-24 08:20:32 AM  

tony41454: TOLD YA SO!!!!! And you, low-information voters elected the liar-in-chief. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Why not call him the negro in chief like you did before?

Also its been explained many many times in the thread above you as to why its still a farking lie.

but you don't care.

Because you are a shameless partisan shill.
 
2013-01-24 08:23:09 AM  
i love, love, LOVE that republicans simply cannot move on. whether it's sandra fluke or todd aikin, or this, instead of taking their lumps and weathering a short news cycle, they DOUBLE DOWN and turn a weeklong story into a long-term thing.

it's beautiful. and they'll never stop. because they can never admit fault.
 
2013-01-24 08:27:39 AM  
OK apparently PJ Media isn't alone in either being incorrect or deliberately lying about objective, observable reality. Good job, fark "posters", keep those perfectly valid but opposing "opinions" coming! Just remember to wipe from front to back.
 
2013-01-24 08:28:47 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-24 08:31:48 AM  

A Terrible Human: Sczi: Wait.. So there really is cake?

[i.imgur.com image 500x426]

Yes but first you need to put on special goggles and of course agree to murder those bastards on the red team.


Those goggles creep me out.
 
2013-01-24 08:33:39 AM  
Thank you Mods for finally not hiding these shiat conservative blog links behind "(Some Guy)". Now stop greenlighting shiat conservative blogs.
 
2013-01-24 08:37:44 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-24 09:02:29 AM  
Pj media: we refuse to admit that we sharted ourselves last week and, just to prove our innocence, have decided to keep wearing the same tighty whities.

"See! Those streaks were always there!",
 
2013-01-24 09:03:18 AM  

FlashHarry: i love, love, LOVE that republicans simply cannot move on. whether it's sandra fluke or todd aikin, or this, instead of taking their lumps and weathering a short news cycle, they DOUBLE DOWN and turn a weeklong story into a long-term thing.

it's beautiful. and they'll never stop. because they can never admit fault.


I think you're missing the point to some extent. The election is over, Romney lost, no amount of hindsight into certain statements is going to change that. At this point, the question should be how much confidence can we put in fact checkers, what sort of influence should we allow their conclusions, and can we really trust them to be unbiased? You can easily be anti-Romney and still admit that Politifact was wrong.
 
2013-01-24 09:03:33 AM  

tony41454: TOLD YA SO!!!!! And you, low-information voters elected the liar-in-chief. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Sarah Palin automatically becomes President?
 
2013-01-24 09:05:42 AM  
imageshack.us
imageshack.us
imageshack.us
imageshack.us
 
2013-01-24 09:26:36 AM  
Wait, so we're not talking about the "End Medicare as we know it" lie of the year?

Oh, PJ media? Figures. Courtesy flush next time please, mods
 
2013-01-24 09:39:04 AM  
dailypicksandflicks.com
 
2013-01-24 09:39:13 AM  

Yes please: FlashHarry: i love, love, LOVE that republicans simply cannot move on. whether it's sandra fluke or todd aikin, or this, instead of taking their lumps and weathering a short news cycle, they DOUBLE DOWN and turn a weeklong story into a long-term thing.

it's beautiful. and they'll never stop. because they can never admit fault.

I think you're missing the point to some extent. The election is over, Romney lost, no amount of hindsight into certain statements is going to change that. At this point, the question should be how much confidence can we put in fact checkers, what sort of influence should we allow their conclusions, and can we really trust them to be unbiased? You can easily be anti-Romney and still admit that Politifact was wrong.


Sure, except that in this case Politifact was correct about Romney.
 
2013-01-24 09:50:36 AM  

burning_bridge: No article about American jobs being cut, or scaled back, or exported. Just some speculation, based on nothing, tossed into an article about how production is increasing in a foreign market that is currently expanding.


This is the important thing that Republicans are lying about. Yes, production in China is increasing. But they are NOT moving American production to China, they are increasing production in China. US production is not taking a hit from this.

You know what this is? An American business growing and having success in a major emerging market. The HORROR!
 
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