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(Bloomberg)   E-cigarettes, which contain no tobacco, will be regulated as tobacco products   (bloomberg.com) divider line 56
    More: Obvious, electronic cigarette, FDA, American Lung Association, IMS Health, nasal spray, cigarettes, methadone clinic  
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8665 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 1:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-01-24 01:57:27 AM  
11 votes:
I would prefer that they be regulated as drugs/medical devices, personally. I have used one for four years now. I was able to quit a 15-year long pack-a-day habit literally instantly, and dread the tobacco companies finding ways to make them so expensive and heavily taxed that they become less financially viable than cigarettes. At this point, I can spend $100 a year to support my desire for nicotine delivered in a manner that satisfies my oral fixation with no smoke, no second-hand smoke, no discoloration of my teeth, no nastiness to my breath or personal odor, and no side effects yet seen or known. I'm sure that the tobacco lobby is livid at the prospect of even 10% of smokers doing the same.  I'd rather get the solid tests and trials to make certain that it's safe and keep them available and practical.
2013-01-24 02:01:51 AM  
4 votes:
Oh, I see you're trying to quit that thing we tax the shiat out of.

Guess we have to tax your therapy.

Because you are still a pariah. You still suck.

And there's money to be made.
2013-01-24 01:38:09 AM  
3 votes:
This isn't news to anyone paying attention the last couple decades. The government wants to take away your freedoms.

It's all for your health and wellbeing, citizen.

/formerly nicotine-stained fingers
2013-01-24 04:54:21 AM  
2 votes:

gh0strid3r: Interesting that you know this when there have been no studies on the subject.


Just because you don't know of any studies doesn't mean they don't exist.

I mean, you could have at least checked Wikipedia before you doubled-down on that (clearly false) claim.

It's like you're not even trying.

7/10 -- I took the bait.
2013-01-24 03:46:43 AM  
2 votes:

gh0strid3r: zerth: Gas chromotography of exhaled vapor is unable to detect the presence of nicotine, although mass spectrometry can(in the parts per billion range).

You'd get more nicotine if you licked the roof of a smoker's mouth(approx 2% of nicotine vapor gets absorbed by saliva).

[...]

Yet the effects are still unknown.

Studies done: 0

I don't care what people do to their own bodies. That's their business and I don't think anyone, including the government, should have any say about it. But when you start affecting others against their will, that's where I have a problem.


You must be TERRIFIED of scented candles. All sorts of unknown chemicals released in to the air you breath in amounts far in excess of the nicotine content of e-cig vapor. Virtually no regulation. No studies showing how dangerous they truly are...

I don't know what you'd do if you spotted a Glade Plugin. Those things could pose a serious, yet completely unknown, risk to your health.
2013-01-24 02:29:12 AM  
2 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Tobacco isn't regulated because it's tobacco, it's regulated because nicotine is on the pharmacological schedule. Being, you know, a drug.


Done in... uh... fark it I'm not going to count. First page anyway.

My only problem with this will be if it means smokers can't use e-Cigs on planes. Having dated a smoker, having friends who are smokers, I can tell you that anything that gives a smoker a much-needed hit of nicotine mid-flight is far preferable to spending 5 hours in a tiny metal box with a person slowly being driven insane by the receptors in their brain screaming for nicotine. Especially since most terminals don't let you smoke anywhere inside, so with recent security changes that winds up being a minimum of an hour without nicotine before they even board the plane.
2013-01-24 02:15:18 AM  
2 votes:

gh0strid3r: I support this. There may be no tobacco and no smoke, but there is nicotine. While we don't know the amount, that nicotine is present in the vapor that's produced. Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders. Former smokers have a real concern here, because nicotine is the chemical they struggled to break their addiction to. What kind of affect will this new exposure have on someone still struggling with the habit? Now, before we hear the arguments about nicotine being found in every day products such as tomatoes, remember that we don't know the nicotine levels of second-hand vapors from e-cigs and this is being inhaled, not ingested. The natural biological filters of the digestive system are being bypassed.


Gas chromotography of exhaled vapor is unable to detect the presence of nicotine, although mass spectrometry can(in the parts per billion range).

You'd get more nicotine if you licked the roof of a smoker's mouth(approx 2% of nicotine vapor gets absorbed by saliva).

/puffed once on a cigarette in uni, vomited, never tried again.
2013-01-24 02:10:03 AM  
2 votes:
This decision actually makes for a lower standard of regulation than was originally proposed by the FDA. Regulating it as tobacco is a lesser standard than regulating as a drug. This is what the e-cig makers asked for. Follow the FD&C link if you like.

But keep on biatching anyway.
2013-01-24 02:09:09 AM  
2 votes:
I quit smoking real cigarettes about 3 years ago when I switched to e-cigs. I mostly weaned myself off of the e-cigs, but if I am working on a big stressful project, I'll pull the kit out of my desk and start using it.

The government needs to stay the hell out of this, the same way the FDA should generally keep their noses out of most everything else. Research what's going on? Absolutely. Monitor the market? Sure. Put the breaks on products that are clearly going out-of-bounds and harming people? Yes!

On the face of it, good old common sense tells us that e-cigarettes are infinitely less dangerous than smoking tobacco. No combustion. No funky stuff in the tobacco (pesticides, environmental pollutants picked up while growing, etc). Far less bi-products. Zero particulate matter. Given the historical rates of how successful people are at quitting smoking (which is to say, *very* poor) and the evidence I've seen of people being highly successful in transitioning to e-cigarettes, the downside to regulating (and eventually taxing) this market is extraordinarily clear; people will die.
2013-01-24 02:00:17 AM  
2 votes:

JohnnyC: I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


My SO used them regularly for about a month, then sporadically for a month afterward.  He hasn't had a cigarette, e- or otherwise, for the past two months.  He had been smoking regularly for give or take four years before that, and sporadically/socially for two before that.

He also did his research before buying them instead of buying the disposable cheap ones behind the party store counter for what it's worth.   He also was pretty committed to quitting (although one fault he realized with e-cigs early on was that at the beginning he smoked them *more* than normal cigs because he could take a hit indoors while doing work on the computer, so he would constantly hit it)

.realize what I'm setting myself up for there with the "constantly hit it"
2013-01-24 01:58:12 AM  
2 votes:
I don't mind that the government is taking an interest in regulating an obviously addictive and potentially dangerous product. However, the government really needs to consider the harm reduction potential here.

Nicotine's not good for you, but it's by far not the worst thing in a cigarette. In the vast majority of cases, nicotine is not what kills a smoker. If we could get a significant percentage of people to quit smoking and start vaping, there presumably would be a decent reduction in cigarette mortality. Significant life and cost saving abound.

This is assuming that these products don't cause death some other way, which studying can determine.
2013-01-24 01:54:40 AM  
2 votes:

harrydorcas: The American FDA should listen to Dr. Patrick Basham, founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with Cato's


...and that's where I stopped reading, because there's no way a member of the Cato Institute would not have a corporatist agenda. It'd be like trusting a scientist paid off by Exxon on climate change or peak oil.

/Hell, Exxon knows the type of person they want to influence is anti-science, so they just go with Lord Bugeye and Anthony Watts.
2013-01-24 01:53:03 AM  
2 votes:

harrydorcas: The American FDA should listen to Dr. Patrick Basham, founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with Cato's Center for Representative Government. He says that there are inconvenient facts about public health regulation the government are ignoring.


harrydorcas should get his information from a blog that doesn't suck. Like Science-Based Medicine.
2013-01-24 01:45:14 AM  
2 votes:
Regulation leads to taxation. In 5 years my $20 30mL bottle of juice is going to run me $800.

Eff.

/25 Apr 2011?
2013-01-24 01:26:48 AM  
2 votes:
So you have to be 18 to buy it and the cost to society will be paid via taxes on the sale? I'm not offended by this.
2013-01-24 10:47:01 PM  
1 votes:
I've used them off and on for a few months. Near as I can tell they're okay for taking the edge off at work but aren't a legitimate substitute.
2013-01-24 10:01:41 PM  
1 votes:
The e-cig issue is great for separating those who are legitimately against smoking from those who are emotionally against smoking.
2013-01-24 06:20:16 PM  
1 votes:
About half the time you buy fish, you're not given what you wanted or paid for. You're unwittingly provided a low-quality substitute.

This is a widespread and deliberate fraud that affects nearly everyone.

Hey FDA, how about getting off the farking smokers for one farking second and doing something meaningful like addressing the fake farking fish issue?
2013-01-24 03:29:48 PM  
1 votes:

gweilo8888: Except you're breathing back out some of that nicotine, and I'm sitting next to you inhaling it, and wondering why I suddenly want a cigarette. (Or actually, feel nauseous, because it's been long enough now since I smoked that there's no longer any craving when others smoke around me, just mild nausea.)


Clearly you didn't read either of the air quality studies I pointed you to, so it is pointless to respond to that until you have some factual basis for debate.

gweilo8888: Except that there is a suggestion (yes, not entirely proven yet, but certainly pointed towards by the data) that nicotine itself can cause cancer.

There is exactly zero evidence to support this. Not just "not entirely proven yet," not even remotely proven. No credible source has been able to find a single link between pharmaceutical-grade nicotine extract and cancer.

gweilo8888: But yeah, other than that. And the fact that you're mixing it with god-only-knows-what that hasn't been tested or regulated. And you're making those around you breathe it too.

I know exactly what I'm mixing it with. I buy mix it myself. USP propylene glycol, USP vegetable glycerine, USP nicotine in a PG base, and food-grade flavourings in a PG base. All food-grade or better, all within the GRAS statute. God doesn't need to know what. I already do. And regarding breathing it, once again, read the air quality studies I linked to. Or, if you're in the tl;dr camp: You're tilting at windmills.

2013-01-24 01:10:58 PM  
1 votes:

gweilo8888: I also don't believe they in any way help with quitting. They merely replace one dependency with another

...

Meh, we're all dependent on some things. Take a way my coffee and I'll have a splitting migraine for days. That's true physical dependency, yet there's no problem with taking a kid to Starbucks because coffee really doesn't hurt you -- addictive or not. The problem with cigarettes is that they give you cancer -- not because of the nicotine, but because you're inhaling smoke. If the smoke is gone, so is the cancer, and so is the problem.
2013-01-24 12:43:02 PM  
1 votes:

MBZ321: I really got to try e-cigs seriously. I bought a cheap-o one years ago, when they were still pretty much a novelty, and it was okay, but didn't really taste like a cigarette.

I ordered another one (there was a penny special kit from "Victory" e-cigs). Turned out to be a POS and doesn't produce a lot of vapor. I lost it about a week after I had it anyway. Damn company keeps trying to auto-bill me for refills even though there was not supposed to be a reoccuring chagre. Luckily I used a VCC.

Now leaning towards the BullSmoke brand when I do order another e-cig. Anyone try this one?

The problem is, Googling e-cig reviews brings up a bunch of fake-review sites, or the e-cigs that are supposedly rated as good, look NOTHING like a real cigarette (seriously, black with a green LED on the end?)


The cigarette shaped ones don't work well. Look for a Joyetech eGo battery and a clearomizer like a Kanger T2 or T3. E-Cigarette Forum has a lot of good information and helpful people.

Also, I would recommend dropping the quest to find something that tastes like a cigarette. There is just nothing out there that replicates the flavor of burning tobacco. Find something else you enjoy the flavor of. I wasn't able to quit smoking until I quit looking for a decent cigarette flavored juice.
2013-01-24 12:34:22 PM  
1 votes:
E-cigarette manufacturers could have avoided this whole mess if they had just had the foresight to manufacture them in Utah and call them "nutritional supplements."
2013-01-24 10:48:57 AM  
1 votes:
Did anyone actually read the article? This is the designation the e-cig companies were hoping for, since the alternative was categorization as a medical device, which would have required them to conduct more costly safety and efficacy studies.
2013-01-24 09:07:48 AM  
1 votes:

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I would prefer that they be regulated as drugs/medical devices, personally. I have used one for four years now. I was able to quit a 15-year long pack-a-day habit literally instantly, and dread the tobacco companies finding ways to make them so expensive and heavily taxed that they become less financially viable than cigarettes. At this point, I can spend $100 a year to support my desire for nicotine delivered in a manner that satisfies my oral fixation with no smoke, no second-hand smoke, no discoloration of my teeth, no nastiness to my breath or personal odor, and no side effects yet seen or known. I'm sure that the tobacco lobby is livid at the prospect of even 10% of smokers doing the same.  I'd rather get the solid tests and trials to make certain that it's safe and keep them available and practical.


I couldnt read a word of your quote because I was dumbfounded by how awesome your handle is.
2013-01-24 07:11:51 AM  
1 votes:
The best thing I can say about ecigs is it caused me to quit smoking during a time when I had absolutely no interest in quitting. My wife bought an eGo-T kit, and it came with two complete eCigs. I started using the other one, and almost instantly began using it exclusively. That was almost 3 years ago. I still use my eCig occasionally, but it was far easier to wean myself off of that because I could vape the same flavor liquid over time while lowering the nicotine content to 0. If you've tried ecigs before and didn't like it due to the way it tasted, or how weak it was compared to a cigarette or how it burned your throat, you should try a different type. My suggestion to someone staring out would be to get an ecig that is adaptable to different methods of vaping-- the eGo is started with used proprietary batteries (which were expensive to replace), and was apt to leak due to the design of the tank system it used. It also put out very low voltage compared to some others on the market, and therefore less vapor and muted flavors.

I'm not affiliated with any company that sells this stuff, so I'm not spamming here, just offering advice:

If I was going to start vaping today, knowing what I know now, I would go with something like this: Main unit. It's not that expensive, it's bulletproof, it allows you to use cheaper non-proprietary batteries, and also to change voltages based on the batteries you use.

You're also going to need a battery charger capable of charging the different batteries-- like this one: Charger.

The batteries you can use with this are the 18650 (1 battery for 3.7 volt vaping), two 16340 batteries for 6 volt, or two 18350's for 7.4 volt. You can buy them there as well. They are much cheaper and last longer than the proprietary batteries ($7 vs. $20 each). Buy only protected batteries, which have a protection circuit that will not allow the battery to fire if there is a short or something. It's not necessary, but it doesn't cost any extra and you don't want to risk even the slightest chance of a battery exploding while you hold it up to your face.

Next you will need either an atomizer, cartomizer or a tank system.

Atomizers are kind of a pain because you have to almost constantly drip the liquid directly onto the heating element. They do produce excellent vapor, so if you are unemployed and sit around the house all day and the constant dripping you need to do isn't a problem, this may be for you. They work probably the best in terms of vapor production, are moderately cheap and last a while. They are not recommended for driving around with.

Cartomizers and essentially atomizers with filler material inside that holds liquid, so you don't have to constantly drip more in there. IMO, they are the best choice. They don't leak, hold a lot of liquid, are cheaper than atomizers, can be refilled and will generally last a few weeks at a time.

Tanks are good, but they look kind of freaky. A tank is basically a cartomizer with a hole or two punched in it and the tank full of liquid slid down over it. As you use the liquid, it wicks itself into the inner material. They work about as well as a cartomizer, since that's basically what they are, and the benefit is holding a ton of liquid. The downside is they sometimes leak, which is a problem, they look strange, and they are tough to fill sometimes.

You will have to match the resistance of the above to whatever type of voltage you're using. For 3.7v, you can use from 1.7 to 3.2 ohms. At 6v, 3.2 to 4.5 ohms. At 7.4v, 4 to 5 ohms. IMO, you should stay away from dual coil, as all it seems to do is kill your batteries faster without and real benefit. At the low end of the range for each voltage (like at 1.7 for 3.7v) you get better vapor production, more heat and less flavor. This is where personal preference comes in. Also, some liquids taste or vape better at one voltage and not another. You'll have to find out what you like on your own.

You will also need to buy what's called a drip tip. They cost a couple of bucks and attach to the above to give you something to put your lips on. the 306 type is used for atomizers, the other type with the O-ring at the bottom is used on cartomizers and tanks. Get whichever kind you need, and pick a color. I would stay away from aluminum and stainless tips, as they are not comfortable to suck on. I like the plastic ones but they make rubber and acrylic tips as well.

Liquids come in 1000 flavors-- everything from different cigarette types to waffle with syrup flavored. Everyone when they first start out begins with the tobacco flavor, trying to match what they are currently smoking (eventually you realize that tobacco tastes like shiat and move on to other flavors). A 30ml bottle costs around $12-$15 and lasts around 3 weeks to a month and a half, depending on your usage. They are made from flavorings, nicotine, water and either PG or VG or a mix of both. Generally PG means more of a throat hit and less vapor, VG is the opposite. I like a 80% VG to 20% PG mix, but again it's all personal preference. Choose also your nicotine level-- start out at the highest level when you are switching from cigarettes. It's not like smoking a cigarette where you smoke one in five minutes then you're done for a while. You can just take a single drag now and again. Gradually lower the nicotine level in your liquid over time- you will hardly notice the switch.

TL;DR: ecigs are good.
2013-01-24 04:48:03 AM  
1 votes:
2013-01-24 04:39:32 AM  
1 votes:

ceebeecates4: For anyone looking to quit, try Chantix.

It's expensive (esp if you have shiatty insurance) and it's dangerous (esp if you have mental issues).

It's also extremely effective.


I remember we spent at least one class period of abnormal psych. with my professor talking about how chantix works by blocking dopamine receptors, effectively inducing a state of clinical depression. Apparently the logic is that if you can't enjoy life then you won't enjoy smoking therefore it will be easier to quit. All the other side-effects aside (no pun intended) there's a serious suicide trend among people who take it.

I wouldn't call it "extremely effective" personally.
2013-01-24 04:34:19 AM  
1 votes:
I have an E-cig, and would feel better if someone other than the manufacturer was doing quality checks. I don't particularly care who in principal.
2013-01-24 03:46:33 AM  
1 votes:

ceebeecates4: For anyone looking to quit, try Chantix.

It's expensive (esp if you have shiatty insurance) and it's dangerous (esp if you have mental issues).

It's also extremely effective.


Yeah, because smoking is bad for you and second hand smoke is bad for everyone else (never mind we lied about how harmful it actually is), don't smoke. Here, take this pill that might make you go off the deep end and kill your coworkers and yourself. It's for the greater good.
2013-01-24 03:42:26 AM  
1 votes:

Boojum2k: Puffing on Juicy Fruit flavored vapor right now, so Im getting a. . . ah hell, you know.

Been off cigarettes for three months now. Still have to go outside at work to puff, but it means I still get to take "smoke breaks" so I'm cool with it.

/work harder than any of the non-smokers ever did


Why do you need to go outside? It's water vapor. I pulled my ecig out when a meeting ran past the 90 minute mark and didn't look like it was going to end anytime soon. The is no workplace policy about water vapor in my office and if someone made a big deal out of it, I would point out that people making coffee and tea put out far more water vapor than my ecig.
2013-01-24 03:30:29 AM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45: Real Women Drink Akvavit: When I have to go visit family overseas, I use those NicoDerm CQ patches. Unless they also work as shark reprellants and tiny flotation devices, they're fairly worthless. I say we just fill up bubble gum machines with Ativan or Zanax for those who want to quit smoking or vaping. Benzodiazepines are much more effective for controlling sudden bursts of nicotine-deprived rage anyway.

Making a leap from tobacco to benzos would be unwise. Although stuff like Xanax is considered less addictive than hard opiate pharms, it's still addictive and far more powerful than tobacco. A cigarette will provide juust enough relief to stop me from shaking my leg in anxiety for 30-45 minutes or so and exceeding the recommended dosage is unpleasant. A Xanax will make me feel all warm and fuzzy for several hours, and exceeding the recommended dosage will make me feel heavenly.

Also, benzos have a strong propensity for causing physical dependence. If you think your nic fits are bad, watch someone trying to kick a Xanax habit cold turkey. It isnt even medically recommended to do so; long time Xanax users can have seizures if they try to quit without tapering their doses over several weeks/months. Stuff is pretty powerful. Ive accidentally blacked out just by taking a 2nd standard dose before an anxiety-inducing situation, full on booze style blackout where I woke up wondering where the hell I was and how I got home.

The first couple weeks of kicking tobacco are tough, but once you quit youll wonder how the hell you smoked so long. Taper off at least a week or two in advance to make it more bearable. You get your breath back, you dont smell like shiat, your breath and teeth dont suffer, you get healthy. I havent bought a pack in close to 3 years, and breaking that addiction made me stronger as a person.

/If I can quit anyone can quit
//Meth was easier to quit than tobacco for me back in the day...


I would never suggest anyone switch nicotine out for Ativan or Zanax. I do take Ativan myself sometimes, but it's not very often and only in extreme circumstances, but before the anxiety becomes so extreme I freak out over basically nothing. I have a huge issue with medical personnel  because of a very bad car accident when I was 13, and I ended up in  the hospital for nearly two months. Well, I just got out of the hospital again slightly more than 24 hours ago after spending a week in there. They kept me on Ativan the whole time I was there, simply because they could work with me and reason with me easier. I'm in my 40's now and that anxiety about hospitals and doctors and nurses is still so strong they sedate me if it's more than just a simple recheck. Now that I'm home again, in my own bed, cuddled with my own cat, I think I've only taken it twice (including about half an hour ago). So it's not that it's a long term cig substitute for me, it's just a necessary evil for me once in a while. I'm sure it would benefit others short term or occasionally as well. Ativan also makes me much more pleasant and laid back, so I'm sure my family wishes I was on it all the  time! Not gonna happen though. I don't own any hippie type clothing, which I think is a requirement for long term,  chronic users, which I obviously am not.
2013-01-24 03:02:10 AM  
1 votes:
After further reading and research, I have to reverse my statement about supporting this. It's being done the wrong way for the wrong reasons. They're only concerned with distribution and taxation, not limits on use.

While I don't want to be exposed to the nicotine-laced vapor because there are too many unknowns, I totally support this product as a healthier alternative to cigarettes. We shouldn't discourage smokers from switching to them, we should be encouraging them. But at the same time, they should be aware of how they 'might' be affecting others around them.
2013-01-24 02:53:22 AM  
1 votes:
This article is almost a year old, but this was the answer we wanted from the FDA.

There were 2 choices, either regulated as a tobacco product, or as a drug delivery device.

For those that think e-cigs suck, you have tried the ones that suck. The "free kit" guys all suck, that's why they're free.

I'd give you the link to my site, but that would be all spammy.

Suppose you could search for Valley Vapor if you really wanted to try them. We give away free ones to newbies, and sell the best ones available on the market.
2013-01-24 02:48:40 AM  
1 votes:

Real Women Drink Akvavit: When I have to go visit family overseas, I use those NicoDerm CQ patches. Unless they also work as shark reprellants and tiny flotation devices, they're fairly worthless. I say we just fill up bubble gum machines with Ativan or Zanax for those who want to quit smoking or vaping. Benzodiazepines are much more effective for controlling sudden bursts of nicotine-deprived rage anyway.


Making a leap from tobacco to benzos would be unwise. Although stuff like Xanax is considered less addictive than hard opiate pharms, it's still addictive and far more powerful than tobacco. A cigarette will provide juust enough relief to stop me from shaking my leg in anxiety for 30-45 minutes or so and exceeding the recommended dosage is unpleasant. A Xanax will make me feel all warm and fuzzy for several hours, and exceeding the recommended dosage will make me feel heavenly.

Also, benzos have a strong propensity for causing physical dependence. If you think your nic fits are bad, watch someone trying to kick a Xanax habit cold turkey. It isnt even medically recommended to do so; long time Xanax users can have seizures if they try to quit without tapering their doses over several weeks/months. Stuff is pretty powerful. Ive accidentally blacked out just by taking a 2nd standard dose before an anxiety-inducing situation, full on booze style blackout where I woke up wondering where the hell I was and how I got home.

The first couple weeks of kicking tobacco are tough, but once you quit youll wonder how the hell you smoked so long. Taper off at least a week or two in advance to make it more bearable. You get your breath back, you dont smell like shiat, your breath and teeth dont suffer, you get healthy. I havent bought a pack in close to 3 years, and breaking that addiction made me stronger as a person.

/If I can quit anyone can quit
//Meth was easier to quit than tobacco for me back in the day...
2013-01-24 02:42:19 AM  
1 votes:

ng2810: lewismarktwo: JohnnyC:

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


Bullshiat.

My boyfriend sells e-cigs and he works from 12 pm to 9 pm every day. Both stores constantly sell out of merchandise and they recently had to hire several new full-time workers to keep up with demand.

E-cigs are NOT one size fits all. There are so many different brands with many different functions (not to mention the types of e-juice out there!) It took me a while of experimenting before I found an e-cig I liked and juice flavor that I enjoyed (blueberry muffin ftw!). The juice even comes in non-nicotine mixtures. Luckily at the bar where my bf works you can test out various e-cigs and mix flavors to suit your tastes before you invest in one.

/Non-smoker.
//Casual Vaper


That link seems pretty interesting, though pricey. $699.?
 I've tried an awful lot of e-cigs, and although every one of them claimed to be the best, most of them, if not all, were very disappointing.
I'm not entirely sure that I want to take advice from someone who's idea of fine tobacco, is someone who thinks it should taste like blueberry muffins.

That's sort of like saying you found a single malt scotch, that tastes like lemonade.
2013-01-24 02:21:41 AM  
1 votes:

Atomic Spunk: I bet nicotine suppositories would work pretty well. Wouldn't do much to help your oral fixation though. Unless, of course, you like to...ummm...well...never mind.



Youd have to watch out through rectal administration, you often get much more intoxicated on substances "plugged" in your ass then you would if you had smoked them. Or at least the nicotine solution would have to be diluted to much smaller levels. Ive been told it has to do with bioavailability, though Im unclear of the process. I could see people getting sick as dogs. Id also be worried about getting it out of my ass quickly in case of higher dosage ingestion, excess nicotine dosing causes nausea and severe headaches.
2013-01-24 02:19:51 AM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: This isn't news to anyone paying attention the last couple decades. The government wants to take away your freedoms.

It's all for your health and wellbeing, citizen.

/formerly nicotine-stained fingers


Wrong thought on this issue.The government wants to regulate it so they can TAX THE EVER LIVING SHIAT OUT OF IT to make up for declining revenue caused by former smokers like myself and AAG here. If anyone remotely thinks that the unbelievable taxing we've seen on cigs in the last decade was meant to stop anyone from smoking you're delusional. It was a convenient way to grab money from a segment of the population. When it had the effect of actually pricing many out of the habit our wonderful, caring government noticed it liked the money this brought in. But what to do now? Easy, find something else to demonize and tax the Shiat out of it. Then step 3: PROFIT

/Yeah, I know cigs are bad
//but that wasn't the government's primary motive, the health if it's citizens
///primary motive was revenue, that it could be attached to a cause was just a bonus
2013-01-24 02:19:32 AM  
1 votes:

StreetlightInTheGhetto: JohnnyC: That's cool. Glad to hear he kicked the habit. I hope he manages to stay smoke free. It's a tough thing to do.

He's bummed one, while we had quite a few folks over for drinks-and-bonfire night.   He could only make it through half, so that's something.


Once you've quit... a cigarette can be pretty potent. Doesn't seem like it when you're used to them. I managed to quit for about 8 months once before. I got extremely stressed out and started back up and that first cigarette seemed awful powerful.

odisae: Good luck. Here's my "Quit Smoking" story


Thanks and yeesh... yeah... cold turkey sucks. I've tried that before... didn't make it. So far I've cut my cigarette intake from about 20 cigs a day down to about 10. I'm planning on starting the patch tomorrow. I think I can do it. I think the hardest part will be the "normally right now I would have a smoke... so what do I do with myself" thing. We'll see though. I'm determined to quit though, so I think that helps.
2013-01-24 02:13:18 AM  
1 votes:
Nicotine on it's own is as harmful as caffeine.

Vaping is definitely l ..

Oh fark who am I kidding? Everyone who is railing on people who vape to quit smoking is just a farking prick.

Screw you all, you farking pricks.
2013-01-24 02:09:01 AM  
1 votes:

Oznog: Nicotine itself is implicated in heart disease, but there's no tar in e-cigs, and shouldn't be any polonium-210 either.


I'll take people getting heart disease any day over people getting heart disease, lung cancer, emphysema / chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and strokes.

If we can't get people to quit outright, let's get them to switch to something less bad.
2013-01-24 02:08:17 AM  
1 votes:
this is a very good thing


the tobacco companies wanted them regulated as medical devices (effectively banning them)
2013-01-24 02:05:58 AM  
1 votes:

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I would prefer that they be regulated as drugs/medical devices, personally.


That's a great plan. I support it 100% soon as we starting doing it for tobacco (and alcohol, and the 1000 other things we've grandfathered in to current rules). Until then it's ridiculous to say that electrically-powered cigarettes are more dangerous than fire-powered cigarettes.
2013-01-24 02:05:45 AM  
1 votes:
Ive seen these on sale for at least a couple years but Ive never actually seen someone smoking one. Are there places where e-cigarettes are common?

I would imagine they stink less than dried tobacco leaf and paper at least, considering it`s a nicotine solution suspended in some kind of fluid.

/Get some Skoal mint, tastes good, you control nicotine intake easier, and you dont put packs of burning matter thriugh your lungs everyday
//Youll catch stronger nicotine buzzes with chew as well... all cancerous products suck though when you get down to it
2013-01-24 02:02:52 AM  
1 votes:

RedPhoenix122: Good, considering we still don't know the long term effects.


Studies would be good. But if you had to guess -- and you do, since long-term studies take long-term time -- would you say they are more or less dangerous than their direct alternatives (i.e. traditional cigarettes)?

We don't know the long-term effects of lowering the drunk-driving BAC limit, but most people are fairly confident that lower numbers are better. It's worth checking, but to say we can't make a change until we have proof is insane.
2013-01-24 02:02:16 AM  
1 votes:
What about those of us who don't use nicotine in our ecigs?

Having said that, great, I'd love to see some oversight as to what actually goes into the juice.  You kinda just have to take their word that the flavors, vg, and pg are all safe, and aren't tainted with nasty stuff.

Or course, I'd also like to see the FDA regulate vitamins for the same reason.  Too many consumer studies showing they often don't contain the amount or type of vitamins they state on the bottle.
2013-01-24 02:01:17 AM  
1 votes:

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I have used one for four years now.


That's pretty impressive. Like I said above, not one person I know who tried those stuck with them. The biggest complaint I heard from them was that the battery life was crap and they would find themselves out of luck until they could find a place to recharge their e-cig.
2013-01-24 02:00:42 AM  
1 votes:
Can't let you enjoy your drug without an appropriate tax.
Coffee drinkers, you're next, but you'll hardly notice the price increase, since so many of you pay Starbucks prices without even wincing.
2013-01-24 01:58:40 AM  
1 votes:

JohnnyC: There are also a bunch of plants that produce nicotine as well. Some examples are tomatoes,


1.bp.blogspot.com
2013-01-24 01:57:16 AM  
1 votes:

untaken_name: So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.


By his reasoning, if they're made from coffee beans, yes. If they're not, no.

I'm not taking sides either way, but there's certainly a logic to it.
2013-01-24 01:54:13 AM  
1 votes:

untaken_name: So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.


You apparently don't know that over 100 different plants produce caffeine... for starters... tea.

There are also a bunch of plants that produce nicotine as well. Some examples are tomatoes, potatoes, red peppers and eggplant. They do produce nicotine in far lower quantities though.
2013-01-24 01:50:13 AM  
1 votes:
Tobacco isn't regulated because it's tobacco, it's regulated because nicotine is on the pharmacological schedule. Being, you know, a drug.
2013-01-24 01:49:56 AM  
1 votes:
For anyone looking to quit, try Chantix.

It's expensive (esp if you have shiatty insurance) and it's dangerous (esp if you have mental issues).

It's also extremely effective.
2013-01-24 01:49:29 AM  
1 votes:

gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders


Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?
2013-01-24 01:48:28 AM  
1 votes:

Bonzo_1116: So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.


So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.
2013-01-24 01:40:20 AM  
1 votes:
Can we just get nicotine laced lollipops? People still get their nicotine fix and they pacify the oral fixation. There, no more smoking.
2013-01-24 01:16:01 AM  
1 votes:
Good, considering we still don't know the long term effects.
 
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