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(Bloomberg)   E-cigarettes, which contain no tobacco, will be regulated as tobacco products   (bloomberg.com) divider line 248
    More: Obvious, electronic cigarette, FDA, American Lung Association, IMS Health, nasal spray, cigarettes, methadone clinic  
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8659 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 1:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-24 01:16:01 AM
Good, considering we still don't know the long term effects.
 
2013-01-24 01:26:48 AM
So you have to be 18 to buy it and the cost to society will be paid via taxes on the sale? I'm not offended by this.
 
2013-01-24 01:38:09 AM
This isn't news to anyone paying attention the last couple decades. The government wants to take away your freedoms.

It's all for your health and wellbeing, citizen.

/formerly nicotine-stained fingers
 
2013-01-24 01:40:20 AM
Can we just get nicotine laced lollipops? People still get their nicotine fix and they pacify the oral fixation. There, no more smoking.
 
2013-01-24 01:40:21 AM
Tobacco is nicotin. Dumass.
 
2013-01-24 01:40:46 AM
B O G U S!
 
2013-01-24 01:43:10 AM
Brave men fought and died for your right to suck nicotine from a USB-powered tube.

FREEDOM!1!
 
2013-01-24 01:44:05 AM
So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.
 
2013-01-24 01:45:14 AM
Regulation leads to taxation. In 5 years my $20 30mL bottle of juice is going to run me $800.

Eff.

/25 Apr 2011?
 
2013-01-24 01:45:28 AM
I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.
 
2013-01-24 01:47:41 AM
I support this. There may be no tobacco and no smoke, but there is nicotine. While we don't know the amount, that nicotine is present in the vapor that's produced. Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders. Former smokers have a real concern here, because nicotine is the chemical they struggled to break their addiction to. What kind of affect will this new exposure have on someone still struggling with the habit? Now, before we hear the arguments about nicotine being found in every day products such as tomatoes, remember that we don't know the nicotine levels of second-hand vapors from e-cigs and this is being inhaled, not ingested. The natural biological filters of the digestive system are being bypassed.
 
2013-01-24 01:48:28 AM

Bonzo_1116: So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.


So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.
 
2013-01-24 01:48:34 AM
The American FDA should listen to Dr. Patrick Basham, founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with Cato's Center for Representative Government. He says that there are inconvenient facts about public health regulation the government are ignoring.
 
2013-01-24 01:49:29 AM

gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders


Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?
 
2013-01-24 01:49:56 AM
For anyone looking to quit, try Chantix.

It's expensive (esp if you have shiatty insurance) and it's dangerous (esp if you have mental issues).

It's also extremely effective.
 
2013-01-24 01:50:13 AM
Tobacco isn't regulated because it's tobacco, it's regulated because nicotine is on the pharmacological schedule. Being, you know, a drug.
 
2013-01-24 01:51:01 AM

untaken_name: gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders

Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?


There have been ZERO studies on the subject. I don't care what the MSDS says about the actual chemical. We don't know the amounts.
 
2013-01-24 01:51:18 AM
The e-cigarette consists of a battery, a heating element and a cartridge that contains a liquid suspension with nicotine. When a user inhales from the cartridge, the liquid is heated and a vapor is emitted. The nicotine is obtained from tobacco plants.
 
2013-01-24 01:51:38 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: formerly nicotine-stained fingers


Where have I heard that phrase before?
 
2013-01-24 01:51:41 AM

JohnnyC: I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


www.soshichan.org

http://www.soshichan.org/g/src/132813749143.gif
 
2013-01-24 01:53:03 AM

harrydorcas: The American FDA should listen to Dr. Patrick Basham, founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with Cato's Center for Representative Government. He says that there are inconvenient facts about public health regulation the government are ignoring.


harrydorcas should get his information from a blog that doesn't suck. Like Science-Based Medicine.
 
2013-01-24 01:54:13 AM

untaken_name: So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.


You apparently don't know that over 100 different plants produce caffeine... for starters... tea.

There are also a bunch of plants that produce nicotine as well. Some examples are tomatoes, potatoes, red peppers and eggplant. They do produce nicotine in far lower quantities though.
 
2013-01-24 01:54:40 AM

harrydorcas: The American FDA should listen to Dr. Patrick Basham, founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with Cato's


...and that's where I stopped reading, because there's no way a member of the Cato Institute would not have a corporatist agenda. It'd be like trusting a scientist paid off by Exxon on climate change or peak oil.

/Hell, Exxon knows the type of person they want to influence is anti-science, so they just go with Lord Bugeye and Anthony Watts.
 
2013-01-24 01:57:16 AM

untaken_name: So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.


By his reasoning, if they're made from coffee beans, yes. If they're not, no.

I'm not taking sides either way, but there's certainly a logic to it.
 
2013-01-24 01:57:27 AM
I would prefer that they be regulated as drugs/medical devices, personally. I have used one for four years now. I was able to quit a 15-year long pack-a-day habit literally instantly, and dread the tobacco companies finding ways to make them so expensive and heavily taxed that they become less financially viable than cigarettes. At this point, I can spend $100 a year to support my desire for nicotine delivered in a manner that satisfies my oral fixation with no smoke, no second-hand smoke, no discoloration of my teeth, no nastiness to my breath or personal odor, and no side effects yet seen or known. I'm sure that the tobacco lobby is livid at the prospect of even 10% of smokers doing the same.  I'd rather get the solid tests and trials to make certain that it's safe and keep them available and practical.
 
2013-01-24 01:57:58 AM

lewismarktwo: gif


"nope" what?
 
2013-01-24 01:58:12 AM
I don't mind that the government is taking an interest in regulating an obviously addictive and potentially dangerous product. However, the government really needs to consider the harm reduction potential here.

Nicotine's not good for you, but it's by far not the worst thing in a cigarette. In the vast majority of cases, nicotine is not what kills a smoker. If we could get a significant percentage of people to quit smoking and start vaping, there presumably would be a decent reduction in cigarette mortality. Significant life and cost saving abound.

This is assuming that these products don't cause death some other way, which studying can determine.
 
2013-01-24 01:58:32 AM
I bet nicotine suppositories would work pretty well. Wouldn't do much to help your oral fixation though. Unless, of course, you like to...ummm...well...never mind.
 
2013-01-24 01:58:40 AM

JohnnyC: There are also a bunch of plants that produce nicotine as well. Some examples are tomatoes,


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-24 02:00:17 AM

JohnnyC: I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


My SO used them regularly for about a month, then sporadically for a month afterward.  He hasn't had a cigarette, e- or otherwise, for the past two months.  He had been smoking regularly for give or take four years before that, and sporadically/socially for two before that.

He also did his research before buying them instead of buying the disposable cheap ones behind the party store counter for what it's worth.   He also was pretty committed to quitting (although one fault he realized with e-cigs early on was that at the beginning he smoked them *more* than normal cigs because he could take a hit indoors while doing work on the computer, so he would constantly hit it)

.realize what I'm setting myself up for there with the "constantly hit it"
 
2013-01-24 02:00:31 AM

JohnnyC: untaken_name: So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.

You apparently don't know that over 100 different plants produce caffeine... for starters... tea.

There are also a bunch of plants that produce nicotine as well. Some examples are tomatoes, potatoes, red peppers and eggplant. They do produce nicotine in far lower quantities though.


They aren't inhaled.
 
2013-01-24 02:00:42 AM
Can't let you enjoy your drug without an appropriate tax.
Coffee drinkers, you're next, but you'll hardly notice the price increase, since so many of you pay Starbucks prices without even wincing.
 
2013-01-24 02:01:17 AM

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I have used one for four years now.


That's pretty impressive. Like I said above, not one person I know who tried those stuck with them. The biggest complaint I heard from them was that the battery life was crap and they would find themselves out of luck until they could find a place to recharge their e-cig.
 
2013-01-24 02:01:51 AM
Oh, I see you're trying to quit that thing we tax the shiat out of.

Guess we have to tax your therapy.

Because you are still a pariah. You still suck.

And there's money to be made.
 
2013-01-24 02:02:16 AM
What about those of us who don't use nicotine in our ecigs?

Having said that, great, I'd love to see some oversight as to what actually goes into the juice.  You kinda just have to take their word that the flavors, vg, and pg are all safe, and aren't tainted with nasty stuff.

Or course, I'd also like to see the FDA regulate vitamins for the same reason.  Too many consumer studies showing they often don't contain the amount or type of vitamins they state on the bottle.
 
2013-01-24 02:02:52 AM

RedPhoenix122: Good, considering we still don't know the long term effects.


Studies would be good. But if you had to guess -- and you do, since long-term studies take long-term time -- would you say they are more or less dangerous than their direct alternatives (i.e. traditional cigarettes)?

We don't know the long-term effects of lowering the drunk-driving BAC limit, but most people are fairly confident that lower numbers are better. It's worth checking, but to say we can't make a change until we have proof is insane.
 
2013-01-24 02:04:08 AM

gh0strid3r: They aren't inhaled.


You can't prove that. ;)

StreetlightInTheGhetto: He also did his research before buying them instead of buying the disposable cheap ones behind the party store counter for what it's worth.   He also was pretty committed to quitting (although one fault he realized with e-cigs early on was that at the beginning he smoked them *more* than normal cigs because he could take a hit indoors while doing work on the computer, so he would constantly hit it)

.realize what I'm setting myself up for there with the "constantly hit it"


That's cool. Glad to hear he kicked the habit. I hope he manages to stay smoke free. It's a tough thing to do.
 
2013-01-24 02:04:32 AM

Myria: I don't mind that the government is taking an interest in regulating an obviously addictive and potentially dangerous product. However, the government really needs to consider the harm reduction potential here.

Nicotine's not good for you, but it's by far not the worst thing in a cigarette. In the vast majority of cases, nicotine is not what kills a smoker. If we could get a significant percentage of people to quit smoking and start vaping, there presumably would be a decent reduction in cigarette mortality. Significant life and cost saving abound.

This is assuming that these products don't cause death some other way, which studying can determine.


Nicotine itself is implicated in heart disease, but there's no tar in e-cigs, and shouldn't be any polonium-210 either.
 
2013-01-24 02:05:24 AM

Myria: I don't mind that the government is taking an interest in regulating an obviously addictive and potentially dangerous product. However, the government really needs to consider the harm reduction potential here.

Nicotine's not good for you, but it's by far not the worst thing in a cigarette. In the vast majority of cases, nicotine is not what kills a smoker. If we could get a significant percentage of people to quit smoking and start vaping, there presumably would be a decent reduction in cigarette mortality. Significant life and cost saving abound.

This is assuming that these products don't cause death some other way, which studying can determine.


This is a balanced and well-reasoned post, which has no business being posted on Fark at 2 AM EST.

Personally, I started smoking at a late age as a self-treatment for my narcolepsy.  Nicotine in and of itself, without the crap that is added in with cigarettes, would have been much better.  But I started just before the dawning of easy access e-cigs.  And I agree that the products need to not cause death in some other way, and that some study/regulation would help in that... but as far as a cost/benefit analysis goes I'd prefer e-cigs to be at least as accessible as cigarettes.
 
2013-01-24 02:05:30 AM
I tried e-cigs. They sucked. I don't care what the manufacturers say, they do not adequately mirror smoking an actual cigarette.
 
2013-01-24 02:05:45 AM
Ive seen these on sale for at least a couple years but Ive never actually seen someone smoking one. Are there places where e-cigarettes are common?

I would imagine they stink less than dried tobacco leaf and paper at least, considering it`s a nicotine solution suspended in some kind of fluid.

/Get some Skoal mint, tastes good, you control nicotine intake easier, and you dont put packs of burning matter thriugh your lungs everyday
//Youll catch stronger nicotine buzzes with chew as well... all cancerous products suck though when you get down to it
 
2013-01-24 02:05:58 AM

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I would prefer that they be regulated as drugs/medical devices, personally.


That's a great plan. I support it 100% soon as we starting doing it for tobacco (and alcohol, and the 1000 other things we've grandfathered in to current rules). Until then it's ridiculous to say that electrically-powered cigarettes are more dangerous than fire-powered cigarettes.
 
2013-01-24 02:07:21 AM

JohnnyC: gh0strid3r: They aren't inhaled.

You can't prove that. ;)


Touche
 
2013-01-24 02:07:59 AM

JohnnyC: That's cool. Glad to hear he kicked the habit. I hope he manages to stay smoke free. It's a tough thing to do.


He's bummed one, while we had quite a few folks over for drinks-and-bonfire night.   He could only make it through half, so that's something.
 
2013-01-24 02:08:17 AM
this is a very good thing


the tobacco companies wanted them regulated as medical devices (effectively banning them)
 
2013-01-24 02:09:01 AM

Oznog: Nicotine itself is implicated in heart disease, but there's no tar in e-cigs, and shouldn't be any polonium-210 either.


I'll take people getting heart disease any day over people getting heart disease, lung cancer, emphysema / chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and strokes.

If we can't get people to quit outright, let's get them to switch to something less bad.
 
2013-01-24 02:09:03 AM

untaken_name: Bonzo_1116: So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.

So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.


No, if it's a *tobacco* extract. You might be able to get nicotine from other solanaceae plants, and if so, then those would be tomato or eggplant extracts or whatever your starting material was.

I'd imagine tobacco is probably the most productive natural starting point, though.
 
2013-01-24 02:09:09 AM
I quit smoking real cigarettes about 3 years ago when I switched to e-cigs. I mostly weaned myself off of the e-cigs, but if I am working on a big stressful project, I'll pull the kit out of my desk and start using it.

The government needs to stay the hell out of this, the same way the FDA should generally keep their noses out of most everything else. Research what's going on? Absolutely. Monitor the market? Sure. Put the breaks on products that are clearly going out-of-bounds and harming people? Yes!

On the face of it, good old common sense tells us that e-cigarettes are infinitely less dangerous than smoking tobacco. No combustion. No funky stuff in the tobacco (pesticides, environmental pollutants picked up while growing, etc). Far less bi-products. Zero particulate matter. Given the historical rates of how successful people are at quitting smoking (which is to say, *very* poor) and the evidence I've seen of people being highly successful in transitioning to e-cigarettes, the downside to regulating (and eventually taxing) this market is extraordinarily clear; people will die.
 
2013-01-24 02:09:17 AM

JohnnyC: I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


Good luck. Here's my "Quit Smoking" story

Nothing worked for me, and I tried them all. I finally just quit and spent 3 miserable days writhing on the couch going from sweating to shivering every 5 minutes. Day 2 was the worst. The shaking, anxiety, I even vomited twice. Day 3 was better but only because it was waning. After that the physical part was pretty much gone or tolerable. The one thing that kept me from starting again is knowing that I could never go through that again. If I ever start again I will smoke for the rest of my life, and that thought just sucks. In a couple of weeks it will be one year. Only now am I getting to where I hate being around smoke. It is one insidious addiction.
 
2013-01-24 02:10:03 AM
This decision actually makes for a lower standard of regulation than was originally proposed by the FDA. Regulating it as tobacco is a lesser standard than regulating as a drug. This is what the e-cig makers asked for. Follow the FD&C link if you like.

But keep on biatching anyway.
 
2013-01-24 02:10:31 AM
Just cause I'm too tired to think up anything....

"If you're gonna have a pro-drug argument, start the argument where it starts: I have the right to do what ever the hell I want to my own body, if it kills me slowly, happy for me, fark you...." - Doug Stanhope
 
2013-01-24 02:10:39 AM

Gyrfalcon: Tobacco isn't regulated because it's tobacco, it's regulated because nicotine is on the pharmacological schedule. Being, you know, a drug.


^^ that.

/ although I suspect the Gubmint will also eventually get around to regulating Opiumpoopy's No Nicotine Inhalable Tar Sticks - made from REAL tar-sand!!
 
2013-01-24 02:11:08 AM

untaken_name: gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders

Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?


Have you ever participated in writing an MSDS?


It's lulz-worthy.
 
2013-01-24 02:13:18 AM
Nicotine on it's own is as harmful as caffeine.

Vaping is definitely l ..

Oh fark who am I kidding? Everyone who is railing on people who vape to quit smoking is just a farking prick.

Screw you all, you farking pricks.
 
2013-01-24 02:15:18 AM

gh0strid3r: I support this. There may be no tobacco and no smoke, but there is nicotine. While we don't know the amount, that nicotine is present in the vapor that's produced. Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders. Former smokers have a real concern here, because nicotine is the chemical they struggled to break their addiction to. What kind of affect will this new exposure have on someone still struggling with the habit? Now, before we hear the arguments about nicotine being found in every day products such as tomatoes, remember that we don't know the nicotine levels of second-hand vapors from e-cigs and this is being inhaled, not ingested. The natural biological filters of the digestive system are being bypassed.


Gas chromotography of exhaled vapor is unable to detect the presence of nicotine, although mass spectrometry can(in the parts per billion range).

You'd get more nicotine if you licked the roof of a smoker's mouth(approx 2% of nicotine vapor gets absorbed by saliva).

/puffed once on a cigarette in uni, vomited, never tried again.
 
2013-01-24 02:15:25 AM

lewismarktwo: JohnnyC:

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


Bullshiat.

My boyfriend sells e-cigs and he works from 12 pm to 9 pm every day. Both stores constantly sell out of merchandise and they recently had to hire several new full-time workers to keep up with demand.

E-cigs are NOT one size fits all. There are so many different brands with many different functions (not to mention the types of e-juice out there!) It took me a while of experimenting before I found an e-cig I liked and juice flavor that I enjoyed (blueberry muffin ftw!). The juice even comes in non-nicotine mixtures. Luckily at the bar where my bf works you can test out various e-cigs and mix flavors to suit your tastes before you invest in one.

/Non-smoker.
//Casual Vaper
 
2013-01-24 02:17:44 AM

Swoop1809: Can we just get nicotine laced lollipops? People still get their nicotine fix and they pacify the oral fixation. There, no more smoking.


They've been on the market for over a decade, only they're lozenges, which is just a lolipop without the stick.
 
2013-01-24 02:18:12 AM

Bonzo_1116: untaken_name: gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders

Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?

Have you ever participated in writing an MSDS?


It's lulz-worthy.


The only thing MSDS tells you is EVERYTHING WILL KILL YOU IN ANY AMOUNT!!!

Look at the sheet for nicotine. You gotta be kidding me with the PPE.

Sigma-Aldring MSDS
 
2013-01-24 02:19:09 AM

zerth: gh0strid3r: I support this. There may be no tobacco and no smoke, but there is nicotine. While we don't know the amount, that nicotine is present in the vapor that's produced. Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders. Former smokers have a real concern here, because nicotine is the chemical they struggled to break their addiction to. What kind of affect will this new exposure have on someone still struggling with the habit? Now, before we hear the arguments about nicotine being found in every day products such as tomatoes, remember that we don't know the nicotine levels of second-hand vapors from e-cigs and this is being inhaled, not ingested. The natural biological filters of the digestive system are being bypassed.

Gas chromotography of exhaled vapor is unable to detect the presence of nicotine, although mass spectrometry can(in the parts per billion range).

You'd get more nicotine if you licked the roof of a smoker's mouth(approx 2% of nicotine vapor gets absorbed by saliva).

/puffed once on a cigarette in uni, vomited, never tried again.


Yet the effects are still unknown.

Studies done: 0

I don't care what people do to their own bodies. That's their business and I don't think anyone, including the government, should have any say about it. But when you start affecting others against their will, that's where I have a problem.

/ Just stay downwind and we'll be cool.
 
2013-01-24 02:19:32 AM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: JohnnyC: That's cool. Glad to hear he kicked the habit. I hope he manages to stay smoke free. It's a tough thing to do.

He's bummed one, while we had quite a few folks over for drinks-and-bonfire night.   He could only make it through half, so that's something.


Once you've quit... a cigarette can be pretty potent. Doesn't seem like it when you're used to them. I managed to quit for about 8 months once before. I got extremely stressed out and started back up and that first cigarette seemed awful powerful.

odisae: Good luck. Here's my "Quit Smoking" story


Thanks and yeesh... yeah... cold turkey sucks. I've tried that before... didn't make it. So far I've cut my cigarette intake from about 20 cigs a day down to about 10. I'm planning on starting the patch tomorrow. I think I can do it. I think the hardest part will be the "normally right now I would have a smoke... so what do I do with myself" thing. We'll see though. I'm determined to quit though, so I think that helps.
 
2013-01-24 02:19:51 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: This isn't news to anyone paying attention the last couple decades. The government wants to take away your freedoms.

It's all for your health and wellbeing, citizen.

/formerly nicotine-stained fingers


Wrong thought on this issue.The government wants to regulate it so they can TAX THE EVER LIVING SHIAT OUT OF IT to make up for declining revenue caused by former smokers like myself and AAG here. If anyone remotely thinks that the unbelievable taxing we've seen on cigs in the last decade was meant to stop anyone from smoking you're delusional. It was a convenient way to grab money from a segment of the population. When it had the effect of actually pricing many out of the habit our wonderful, caring government noticed it liked the money this brought in. But what to do now? Easy, find something else to demonize and tax the Shiat out of it. Then step 3: PROFIT

/Yeah, I know cigs are bad
//but that wasn't the government's primary motive, the health if it's citizens
///primary motive was revenue, that it could be attached to a cause was just a bonus
 
2013-01-24 02:21:41 AM

Atomic Spunk: I bet nicotine suppositories would work pretty well. Wouldn't do much to help your oral fixation though. Unless, of course, you like to...ummm...well...never mind.



Youd have to watch out through rectal administration, you often get much more intoxicated on substances "plugged" in your ass then you would if you had smoked them. Or at least the nicotine solution would have to be diluted to much smaller levels. Ive been told it has to do with bioavailability, though Im unclear of the process. I could see people getting sick as dogs. Id also be worried about getting it out of my ass quickly in case of higher dosage ingestion, excess nicotine dosing causes nausea and severe headaches.
 
2013-01-24 02:22:00 AM

ng2810: Bullshiat.


Perhaps I should rephrase... E-cigs people I know (which I did say before too) have tried were shiat and they didn't stick with it more than a couple weeks. No need to get all upset about it.
 
2013-01-24 02:22:21 AM
snus for the win.
 
2013-01-24 02:23:09 AM
When I have to go visit family overseas, I use those NicoDerm CQ patches. Unless they also work as shark reprellants and tiny flotation devices, they're fairly worthless. I say we just fill up bubble gum machines with Ativan or Zanax for those who want to quit smoking or vaping. Benzodiazepines are much more effective for controlling sudden bursts of nicotine-deprived rage anyway. YMMV, of course. If you're flying, you better order some of those tiny little bottles of booze to go with as soon as you're in the  air, just for the extra chillage factor.

/voice of experience
//still smokes, just not inside
 
2013-01-24 02:23:51 AM
My mom is on oxygen. She'll never quit smoking, but the e-cigs seem to be a reasonable substitute to prevent her from burning down the house...
 
2013-01-24 02:24:54 AM
I'm Steven Dork, and I've been a washed up douchebag B movie actor for 20 years... do what I do... smoke fake cigarettes. Looks how cool I look in black and white scratching my face walking down a beach BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY!
 
2013-01-24 02:29:12 AM

Gyrfalcon: Tobacco isn't regulated because it's tobacco, it's regulated because nicotine is on the pharmacological schedule. Being, you know, a drug.


Done in... uh... fark it I'm not going to count. First page anyway.

My only problem with this will be if it means smokers can't use e-Cigs on planes. Having dated a smoker, having friends who are smokers, I can tell you that anything that gives a smoker a much-needed hit of nicotine mid-flight is far preferable to spending 5 hours in a tiny metal box with a person slowly being driven insane by the receptors in their brain screaming for nicotine. Especially since most terminals don't let you smoke anywhere inside, so with recent security changes that winds up being a minimum of an hour without nicotine before they even board the plane.
 
2013-01-24 02:39:19 AM

yukichigai: Gyrfalcon: Tobacco isn't regulated because it's tobacco, it's regulated because nicotine is on the pharmacological schedule. Being, you know, a drug.

Done in... uh... fark it I'm not going to count. First page anyway.

My only problem with this will be if it means smokers can't use e-Cigs on planes. Having dated a smoker, having friends who are smokers, I can tell you that anything that gives a smoker a much-needed hit of nicotine mid-flight is far preferable to spending 5 hours in a tiny metal box with a person slowly being driven insane by the receptors in their brain screaming for nicotine. Especially since most terminals don't let you smoke anywhere inside, so with recent security changes that winds up being a minimum of an hour without nicotine before they even board the plane.


It's a good thing that ecigs are really small and don't set off smoke detectors. I had one that I could actually palm and use without people knowing (if they weren't paying attention). It will be funny if they start searching carry-ons and pockets for them.
 
2013-01-24 02:42:19 AM

ng2810: lewismarktwo: JohnnyC:

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


Bullshiat.

My boyfriend sells e-cigs and he works from 12 pm to 9 pm every day. Both stores constantly sell out of merchandise and they recently had to hire several new full-time workers to keep up with demand.

E-cigs are NOT one size fits all. There are so many different brands with many different functions (not to mention the types of e-juice out there!) It took me a while of experimenting before I found an e-cig I liked and juice flavor that I enjoyed (blueberry muffin ftw!). The juice even comes in non-nicotine mixtures. Luckily at the bar where my bf works you can test out various e-cigs and mix flavors to suit your tastes before you invest in one.

/Non-smoker.
//Casual Vaper


That link seems pretty interesting, though pricey. $699.?
 I've tried an awful lot of e-cigs, and although every one of them claimed to be the best, most of them, if not all, were very disappointing.
I'm not entirely sure that I want to take advice from someone who's idea of fine tobacco, is someone who thinks it should taste like blueberry muffins.

That's sort of like saying you found a single malt scotch, that tastes like lemonade.
 
2013-01-24 02:44:22 AM

goatleggedfellow: Bonzo_1116: untaken_name: gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders

Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?

Have you ever participated in writing an MSDS?


It's lulz-worthy.

The only thing MSDS tells you is EVERYTHING WILL KILL YOU IN ANY AMOUNT!!!

Look at the sheet for nicotine. You gotta be kidding me with the PPE.

Sigma-Aldring MSDS


Damn, my phone can't see the msds...but really, for the 99.9%+ shiat, yeah I'd work with it in the hood.

I had a job back in the day working with finely milled albuterol powder for inhalants... kicking the solid waste container and taking a deep breath would send your heart racing and skipping, and clear your sinuses at the same time.

Good times.
 
2013-01-24 02:47:07 AM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: When I have to go visit family overseas, I use those NicoDerm CQ patches. Unless they also work as shark reprellants and tiny flotation devices, they're fairly worthless. I say we just fill up bubble gum machines with Ativan or Zanax for those who want to quit smoking or vaping. Benzodiazepines are much more effective for controlling sudden bursts of nicotine-deprived rage anyway. YMMV, of course. If you're flying, you better order some of those tiny little bottles of booze to go with as soon as you're in the air, just for the extra chillage factor.

/voice of experience
//still smokes, just not inside


When I want to cut back I use patches. I start getting tired when I get up to 2 packs a day, and the patches make me smoke less. I use the Target ones, though, they are cheap and work fine. I want to give pharmaceutical companies the least amount of money I can.

/still smoke--everywhere
//I'll quit when I'm 80, like grandpa did.
///(Hes still going strong)
 
2013-01-24 02:48:40 AM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: When I have to go visit family overseas, I use those NicoDerm CQ patches. Unless they also work as shark reprellants and tiny flotation devices, they're fairly worthless. I say we just fill up bubble gum machines with Ativan or Zanax for those who want to quit smoking or vaping. Benzodiazepines are much more effective for controlling sudden bursts of nicotine-deprived rage anyway.


Making a leap from tobacco to benzos would be unwise. Although stuff like Xanax is considered less addictive than hard opiate pharms, it's still addictive and far more powerful than tobacco. A cigarette will provide juust enough relief to stop me from shaking my leg in anxiety for 30-45 minutes or so and exceeding the recommended dosage is unpleasant. A Xanax will make me feel all warm and fuzzy for several hours, and exceeding the recommended dosage will make me feel heavenly.

Also, benzos have a strong propensity for causing physical dependence. If you think your nic fits are bad, watch someone trying to kick a Xanax habit cold turkey. It isnt even medically recommended to do so; long time Xanax users can have seizures if they try to quit without tapering their doses over several weeks/months. Stuff is pretty powerful. Ive accidentally blacked out just by taking a 2nd standard dose before an anxiety-inducing situation, full on booze style blackout where I woke up wondering where the hell I was and how I got home.

The first couple weeks of kicking tobacco are tough, but once you quit youll wonder how the hell you smoked so long. Taper off at least a week or two in advance to make it more bearable. You get your breath back, you dont smell like shiat, your breath and teeth dont suffer, you get healthy. I havent bought a pack in close to 3 years, and breaking that addiction made me stronger as a person.

/If I can quit anyone can quit
//Meth was easier to quit than tobacco for me back in the day...
 
2013-01-24 02:48:49 AM

JohnnyC: Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


I figured the same, but then again out of the dozen-ish people I know to try them, two have been using them regularly for over a year and love them. Bar? Camping? They have their e-cigs (and a backup battery or two) and seem just as happy as they were with cigs

/I tried them for about 2 weeks then gave them up and just quit cold turkey
//over 6mos and going strong (with the exception of one drunken slip-up the night before Thanksgiving)
 
2013-01-24 02:53:22 AM
This article is almost a year old, but this was the answer we wanted from the FDA.

There were 2 choices, either regulated as a tobacco product, or as a drug delivery device.

For those that think e-cigs suck, you have tried the ones that suck. The "free kit" guys all suck, that's why they're free.

I'd give you the link to my site, but that would be all spammy.

Suppose you could search for Valley Vapor if you really wanted to try them. We give away free ones to newbies, and sell the best ones available on the market.
 
2013-01-24 02:56:08 AM

log_jammin: snus for the win.


I quit by using the Swedish snus, which is some mighty strong stuff. Then I started using the Camel snus because it has a lower nicotine content, and doesn't taste like ass like the Swedish stuff does.

/had a bad night at work and started smoking again, so I have to start over.
 
2013-01-24 02:58:18 AM

Bonzo_1116: goatleggedfellow: Bonzo_1116: untaken_name: gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders

Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?

Have you ever participated in writing an MSDS?


It's lulz-worthy.

The only thing MSDS tells you is EVERYTHING WILL KILL YOU IN ANY AMOUNT!!!

Look at the sheet for nicotine. You gotta be kidding me with the PPE.

Sigma-Aldring MSDS

Damn, my phone can't see the msds...but really, for the 99.9%+ shiat, yeah I'd work with it in the hood.

I had a job back in the day working with finely milled albuterol powder for inhalants... kicking the solid waste container and taking a deep breath would send your heart racing and skipping, and clear your sinuses at the same time.

Good times.


Oh, yeah!

I'm generally med chem, so the hood is assumed.

Med Chem Motto: Cure Cancer before you Get Cancer.
 
2013-01-24 02:59:29 AM
I quit smoking using nicotine lozenges, now I'm addicted to nicotine lozenges. Tried the e-cigs liked them quite a bit, but they still made my lungs hurt. Tried the patches, gave me a rash. Tried the gum, it gave me hiccups. Tried the perscription nasal spray, thought I was going to die. Tried the perscription nicotine inhalers, they worked for awhile, but it looks like your smoking a kotex.
 
2013-01-24 03:01:21 AM

Gadflypaper: log_jammin: snus for the win.

I quit by using the Swedish snus, which is some mighty strong stuff. Then I started using the Camel snus because it has a lower nicotine content, and doesn't taste like ass like the Swedish stuff does.

/had a bad night at work and started smoking again, so I have to start over.


I went with the extra strong swedish stuff (extra sterk!) then went to the normal strength, then the "minis", then the patch. Took me a year all together but it let me break a nearly 20 habit much much easier than cold turkey. that was two years ago.


american snus is shiat and isn't even close to the real thing.
 
2013-01-24 03:02:10 AM
After further reading and research, I have to reverse my statement about supporting this. It's being done the wrong way for the wrong reasons. They're only concerned with distribution and taxation, not limits on use.

While I don't want to be exposed to the nicotine-laced vapor because there are too many unknowns, I totally support this product as a healthier alternative to cigarettes. We shouldn't discourage smokers from switching to them, we should be encouraging them. But at the same time, they should be aware of how they 'might' be affecting others around them.
 
2013-01-24 03:02:25 AM

PVPuffnStuff: This article is almost a year old, but this was the answer we wanted from the FDA.

There were 2 choices, either regulated as a tobacco product, or as a drug delivery device.

For those that think e-cigs suck, you have tried the ones that suck. The "free kit" guys all suck, that's why they're free.

I'd give you the link to my site, but that would be all spammy.

Suppose you could search for Valley Vapor if you really wanted to try them. We give away free ones to newbies, and sell the best ones available on the market.


Yeah, I looked. Now, without lying to me, which is the closest to just smoking an actual Marlboro, and how close is it?
I don't have an oral fixation, I have a nicotine addiction.
 A rubber dick would be a whole lot cheaper.
 
2013-01-24 03:25:59 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: So you have to be 18 to buy it and the cost to society will be paid via taxes on the sale? I'm not offended by this.


And, no doubt, tax the shiat out of it so the most effective means of quitting smoking is as expensive, if not more, than regular cigarettes. Sounds about what I expect from the government.

I've been on ecigarettes for about four months. I went from a pack a day of real cigarettes to about a pack a week.
 
2013-01-24 03:27:27 AM

salsashark1: Tobacco is nicotin. Dumass.


There is no such thing as "nicotin". Neither is there such thing as a "dumass".
Learn to spell. It's nicotine. Dumbass.

Tell me, have you ever held a sign at a republican rally wearing a flag bandanna?
dailypicksandflicks.com
 
2013-01-24 03:29:02 AM

JohnnyC: I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


I'm having great luck with the ecigarette. It gives me my nicotine fix and deals with the need to "smoke" without the actual smoke. The trick is to not be in any hurry to wean yourself off of the ecig. If it takes a year, so what? You've already eliminated most of the negative health aspects of smoking. The patch, on the other hand, made me nauseous and didn't deal with the "ritual" part of smoking which is such a built in habit that it alone can break you when you try to quit.
 
2013-01-24 03:30:29 AM

D_Evans45: Real Women Drink Akvavit: When I have to go visit family overseas, I use those NicoDerm CQ patches. Unless they also work as shark reprellants and tiny flotation devices, they're fairly worthless. I say we just fill up bubble gum machines with Ativan or Zanax for those who want to quit smoking or vaping. Benzodiazepines are much more effective for controlling sudden bursts of nicotine-deprived rage anyway.

Making a leap from tobacco to benzos would be unwise. Although stuff like Xanax is considered less addictive than hard opiate pharms, it's still addictive and far more powerful than tobacco. A cigarette will provide juust enough relief to stop me from shaking my leg in anxiety for 30-45 minutes or so and exceeding the recommended dosage is unpleasant. A Xanax will make me feel all warm and fuzzy for several hours, and exceeding the recommended dosage will make me feel heavenly.

Also, benzos have a strong propensity for causing physical dependence. If you think your nic fits are bad, watch someone trying to kick a Xanax habit cold turkey. It isnt even medically recommended to do so; long time Xanax users can have seizures if they try to quit without tapering their doses over several weeks/months. Stuff is pretty powerful. Ive accidentally blacked out just by taking a 2nd standard dose before an anxiety-inducing situation, full on booze style blackout where I woke up wondering where the hell I was and how I got home.

The first couple weeks of kicking tobacco are tough, but once you quit youll wonder how the hell you smoked so long. Taper off at least a week or two in advance to make it more bearable. You get your breath back, you dont smell like shiat, your breath and teeth dont suffer, you get healthy. I havent bought a pack in close to 3 years, and breaking that addiction made me stronger as a person.

/If I can quit anyone can quit
//Meth was easier to quit than tobacco for me back in the day...


I would never suggest anyone switch nicotine out for Ativan or Zanax. I do take Ativan myself sometimes, but it's not very often and only in extreme circumstances, but before the anxiety becomes so extreme I freak out over basically nothing. I have a huge issue with medical personnel  because of a very bad car accident when I was 13, and I ended up in  the hospital for nearly two months. Well, I just got out of the hospital again slightly more than 24 hours ago after spending a week in there. They kept me on Ativan the whole time I was there, simply because they could work with me and reason with me easier. I'm in my 40's now and that anxiety about hospitals and doctors and nurses is still so strong they sedate me if it's more than just a simple recheck. Now that I'm home again, in my own bed, cuddled with my own cat, I think I've only taken it twice (including about half an hour ago). So it's not that it's a long term cig substitute for me, it's just a necessary evil for me once in a while. I'm sure it would benefit others short term or occasionally as well. Ativan also makes me much more pleasant and laid back, so I'm sure my family wishes I was on it all the  time! Not gonna happen though. I don't own any hippie type clothing, which I think is a requirement for long term,  chronic users, which I obviously am not.
 
2013-01-24 03:33:23 AM

PVPuffnStuff: There were 2 choices, either regulated as a tobacco product, or as a drug delivery device.


There's a third option. The government doesn't need to regulate every damn thing under the sun.
 
2013-01-24 03:34:32 AM
Puffing on Juicy Fruit flavored vapor right now, so Im getting a. . . ah hell, you know.

Been off cigarettes for three months now. Still have to go outside at work to puff, but it means I still get to take "smoke breaks" so I'm cool with it.

/work harder than any of the non-smokers ever did
 
2013-01-24 03:35:52 AM

OgreMagi: PVPuffnStuff: There were 2 choices, either regulated as a tobacco product, or as a drug delivery device.

There's a third option. The government doesn't need to regulate every damn thing under the sun.


But that's the only way to a perfect society! Government should fit closer than your underwear.
 
2013-01-24 03:39:00 AM
What does this mean, regulated like tobacco (aside form taxes)? I thought cigarettes could contain pretty much any shiat possible as they as they paid whatever state for that little stamp.
 
2013-01-24 03:40:39 AM
I enjoy being the bane of cig smokers everywhere while I smoke my one fancy cigar a month.
 
2013-01-24 03:42:26 AM

Boojum2k: Puffing on Juicy Fruit flavored vapor right now, so Im getting a. . . ah hell, you know.

Been off cigarettes for three months now. Still have to go outside at work to puff, but it means I still get to take "smoke breaks" so I'm cool with it.

/work harder than any of the non-smokers ever did


Why do you need to go outside? It's water vapor. I pulled my ecig out when a meeting ran past the 90 minute mark and didn't look like it was going to end anytime soon. The is no workplace policy about water vapor in my office and if someone made a big deal out of it, I would point out that people making coffee and tea put out far more water vapor than my ecig.
 
2013-01-24 03:42:58 AM

ceebeecates4: For anyone looking to quit, try Chantix.

It's expensive (esp if you have shiatty insurance) and it's dangerous (esp if you have mental issues).

It's also extremely effective.


Doesn't that basically kill joy in your life?
 
2013-01-24 03:45:56 AM
TommyymmoT, without turning this into an advertisement, there are a lot of options.

They do feel and taste different. Namely because it's hard to reproduce the flavor/feel/etc of burning paper and plant matter.

Best I can describe the flavors of the tobaccos are the way a fresh pack smells when you first open it up. That sweet tobacco flavor/smell is what the liquid tastes like. There are tons of options for flavors, and some come very close. It's not a 100% match, but it's enough.

I quit without trying to quit...after trying to quit dozens of times before.

Biggest difference past the flavor is the temperature of the vapor. It's cool compared to smoke, so it may feel harsh until you get used to it.

I can bore the pants off you if you want more info, just send me an email.
 
2013-01-24 03:46:33 AM

ceebeecates4: For anyone looking to quit, try Chantix.

It's expensive (esp if you have shiatty insurance) and it's dangerous (esp if you have mental issues).

It's also extremely effective.


Yeah, because smoking is bad for you and second hand smoke is bad for everyone else (never mind we lied about how harmful it actually is), don't smoke. Here, take this pill that might make you go off the deep end and kill your coworkers and yourself. It's for the greater good.
 
2013-01-24 03:46:43 AM

gh0strid3r: zerth: Gas chromotography of exhaled vapor is unable to detect the presence of nicotine, although mass spectrometry can(in the parts per billion range).

You'd get more nicotine if you licked the roof of a smoker's mouth(approx 2% of nicotine vapor gets absorbed by saliva).

[...]

Yet the effects are still unknown.

Studies done: 0

I don't care what people do to their own bodies. That's their business and I don't think anyone, including the government, should have any say about it. But when you start affecting others against their will, that's where I have a problem.


You must be TERRIFIED of scented candles. All sorts of unknown chemicals released in to the air you breath in amounts far in excess of the nicotine content of e-cig vapor. Virtually no regulation. No studies showing how dangerous they truly are...

I don't know what you'd do if you spotted a Glade Plugin. Those things could pose a serious, yet completely unknown, risk to your health.
 
2013-01-24 03:49:01 AM

180IQ: gh0strid3r: zerth: Gas chromotography of exhaled vapor is unable to detect the presence of nicotine, although mass spectrometry can(in the parts per billion range).

You'd get more nicotine if you licked the roof of a smoker's mouth(approx 2% of nicotine vapor gets absorbed by saliva).

[...]

Yet the effects are still unknown.

Studies done: 0

I don't care what people do to their own bodies. That's their business and I don't think anyone, including the government, should have any say about it. But when you start affecting others against their will, that's where I have a problem.

You must be TERRIFIED of scented candles. All sorts of unknown chemicals released in to the air you breath in amounts far in excess of the nicotine content of e-cig vapor. Virtually no regulation. No studies showing how dangerous they truly are...

I don't know what you'd do if you spotted a Glade Plugin. Those things could pose a serious, yet completely unknown, risk to your health.


He's going to turn into a basket case if anyone ever tells him about car exhaust fumes.
 
2013-01-24 03:49:30 AM

OgreMagi: Why do you need to go outside?


Because my top boss has a fear that somebody will think I'm getting away with smoking at my desk. He's a little special at times, but I do like being able to walk away for a bit and think. Usually takes me half the time in coming up with solutions then sitting staring at the screen.

/loved the look on his face back when I did smoke, and something was frustrating the fark out of me. I'd tell him "I'm going outside to set something on fire"
 
2013-01-24 03:51:04 AM

Boojum2k: OgreMagi: Why do you need to go outside?

Because my top boss has a fear that somebody will think I'm getting away with smoking at my desk. He's a little special at times, but I do like being able to walk away for a bit and think. Usually takes me half the time in coming up with solutions then sitting staring at the screen.

/loved the look on his face back when I did smoke, and something was frustrating the fark out of me. I'd tell him "I'm going outside to set something on fire"


Fortunately, my boss isn't an idiot.
 
2013-01-24 03:52:27 AM
I switched from cope and skoal to general snus from Sweden. Nicotine exposure went from 1gram / day to 200 mg. Nitrosamine exposure down from .578 mg to .0136 mg and a small fraction of the lead and other harmful ingredients. Cost savings is about $450 a month!!

Slowly weaning off the snus... But not nearly as concerned
 
2013-01-24 03:55:01 AM

OgreMagi: Fortunately, my boss isn't an idiot.


Mine has an MBA, not Ivy League but a respected university which I will not name. He is far more educated than I am. I had to explain the Law of Diminishing Returns during one meeting.

/He does surprise me occasionally.
//Usually by annoucing a decision I had suggested a year ago, that he suddenly thought of
 
2013-01-24 03:56:10 AM

JohnnyC: ng2810: Bullshiat.

Perhaps I should rephrase... E-cigs people I know (which I did say before too) have tried were shiat and they didn't stick with it more than a couple weeks. No need to get all upset about it.


PVPuffnStuff: For those that think e-cigs suck, you have tried the ones that suck. The "free kit" guys all suck, that's why they're free.


Exactly. I'm a non-smoker, my wife had been a 2+ pack/day smoker, she's been vaping 100% for over a year and a half now. But on top of finding a system that doesn't suck it may take some trial and error to find the kit that is right for you. Luckily it was something that we could geek out with together.

We started with the cartridges. For a heavy smoker, no one is going to put up with that hassle for long. I expect that most people give up at that point. Cartomizers were neat, but not much better. And now she's on a tank system that lasts her all day.

/eGo-C type B FTW
 
2013-01-24 03:58:32 AM

SteakMan: /eGo-C type B FTW


Hell yeah!
 
2013-01-24 04:02:07 AM

SteakMan: JohnnyC: ng2810: Bullshiat.

Perhaps I should rephrase... E-cigs people I know (which I did say before too) have tried were shiat and they didn't stick with it more than a couple weeks. No need to get all upset about it.

PVPuffnStuff: For those that think e-cigs suck, you have tried the ones that suck. The "free kit" guys all suck, that's why they're free.

Exactly. I'm a non-smoker, my wife had been a 2+ pack/day smoker, she's been vaping 100% for over a year and a half now. But on top of finding a system that doesn't suck it may take some trial and error to find the kit that is right for you. Luckily it was something that we could geek out with together.

We started with the cartridges. For a heavy smoker, no one is going to put up with that hassle for long. I expect that most people give up at that point. Cartomizers were neat, but not much better. And now she's on a tank system that lasts her all day.

/eGo-C type B FTW


I've been happy with the GreenSmartLiving cartridge system. I had to get a second unit so that one could be charging while I'm using the other. I use about a cartridge a day on weekdays, and two a day on weekends. I'm spending about half the amount as I did for real cigarettes (possibly more) and have been doing pretty damn good, though I still have a real cigarette once or twice a day. On the occasions I do smoke a real cig, I usually only smoke half of it. I suspect the longer I'm on the ecigarette system, the less of a real cigarette I will be able to smoke. That's a good thing.
 
2013-01-24 04:04:24 AM

TommyymmoT: I'm not entirely sure that I want to take advice from someone who's idea of fine tobacco, is someone who thinks it should taste like blueberry muffins.

That's sort of like saying you found a single malt scotch, that tastes like lemonade.


Nah, it's like saying "I drink to get drunk, so give me some vodka and fruit juice"
 
2013-01-24 04:06:41 AM

SteakMan: TommyymmoT: I'm not entirely sure that I want to take advice from someone who's idea of fine tobacco, is someone who thinks it should taste like blueberry muffins.

That's sort of like saying you found a single malt scotch, that tastes like lemonade.

Nah, it's like saying "I drink to get drunk, so give me some vodka and fruit juice"


Don't be such a girl. Vodka is best served as a martini. None of that pussy juice crap to get between you and the taste of your alcohol.
 
2013-01-24 04:10:22 AM

OgreMagi: Why do you need to go outside? It's water vapor. I pulled my ecig out when a meeting ran past the 90 minute mark and didn't look like it was going to end anytime soon. The is no workplace policy about water vapor in my office and if someone made a big deal out of it, I would point out that people making coffee and tea put out far more water vapor than my ecig.


You are assuming that everyone around you enjoys the scent.
It's certainly more enjoyable than cigarettes, but still...
 
2013-01-24 04:14:21 AM

OgreMagi: 180IQ: gh0strid3r: zerth: Gas chromotography of exhaled vapor is unable to detect the presence of nicotine, although mass spectrometry can(in the parts per billion range).

You'd get more nicotine if you licked the roof of a smoker's mouth(approx 2% of nicotine vapor gets absorbed by saliva).

[...]

Yet the effects are still unknown.

Studies done: 0

I don't care what people do to their own bodies. That's their business and I don't think anyone, including the government, should have any say about it. But when you start affecting others against their will, that's where I have a problem.

You must be TERRIFIED of scented candles. All sorts of unknown chemicals released in to the air you breath in amounts far in excess of the nicotine content of e-cig vapor. Virtually no regulation. No studies showing how dangerous they truly are...

I don't know what you'd do if you spotted a Glade Plugin. Those things could pose a serious, yet completely unknown, risk to your health.

He's going to turn into a basket case if anyone ever tells him about car exhaust fumes.


You both missed my point. There are no ex-users of those other products that had to fight to break their addiction. I'm not talking about the toxicity, I'm talking about the exposure to a chemical someone may have struggled to give up, and now have to deal with on a whole new level because some douche nozzle on TV says it doesn't bother those around him.
 
2013-01-24 04:19:17 AM

SteakMan: OgreMagi: Why do you need to go outside? It's water vapor. I pulled my ecig out when a meeting ran past the 90 minute mark and didn't look like it was going to end anytime soon. The is no workplace policy about water vapor in my office and if someone made a big deal out of it, I would point out that people making coffee and tea put out far more water vapor than my ecig.

You are assuming that everyone around you enjoys the scent.
It's certainly more enjoyable than cigarettes, but still...


I'm more concerned with that fat biatch who pours on too much perfume instead of taking a proper shower. Or the douche who thinks a LOT of Axe will get him the babes. The ecigs can be obtained scented and smell much like a scented candle. I don't particular care for scented candles, but I tolerated them when my girlfriend lit them (it usually meant sexy time, so I had ulterior motives).
 
2013-01-24 04:20:48 AM

gh0strid3r: OgreMagi: 180IQ: gh0strid3r: zerth: Gas chromotography of exhaled vapor is unable to detect the presence of nicotine, although mass spectrometry can(in the parts per billion range).

You'd get more nicotine if you licked the roof of a smoker's mouth(approx 2% of nicotine vapor gets absorbed by saliva).

[...]

Yet the effects are still unknown.

Studies done: 0

I don't care what people do to their own bodies. That's their business and I don't think anyone, including the government, should have any say about it. But when you start affecting others against their will, that's where I have a problem.

You must be TERRIFIED of scented candles. All sorts of unknown chemicals released in to the air you breath in amounts far in excess of the nicotine content of e-cig vapor. Virtually no regulation. No studies showing how dangerous they truly are...

I don't know what you'd do if you spotted a Glade Plugin. Those things could pose a serious, yet completely unknown, risk to your health.

He's going to turn into a basket case if anyone ever tells him about car exhaust fumes.

You both missed my point. There are no ex-users of those other products that had to fight to break their addiction. I'm not talking about the toxicity, I'm talking about the exposure to a chemical someone may have struggled to give up, and now have to deal with on a whole new level because some douche nozzle on TV says it doesn't bother those around him.


You are imagining things that aren't there. The dissipation of ecigarette fumes happens so fast that you would have to have your face right in it to get even a minimal amount of the vapors into your system.
 
2013-01-24 04:22:16 AM

OgreMagi: The dissipation of ecigarette fumes happens so fast that you would have to have your face right in it to get even a minimal amount of the vapors into your system.


Compared to the vapors he's already getting, it would be insignificant.
 
2013-01-24 04:22:29 AM

PVPuffnStuff: TommyymmoT, without turning this into an advertisement, there are a lot of options.

They do feel and taste different. Namely because it's hard to reproduce the flavor/feel/etc of burning paper and plant matter.

Best I can describe the flavors of the tobaccos are the way a fresh pack smells when you first open it up. That sweet tobacco flavor/smell is what the liquid tastes like. There are tons of options for flavors, and some come very close. It's not a 100% match, but it's enough.

I quit without trying to quit...after trying to quit dozens of times before.

Biggest difference past the flavor is the temperature of the vapor. It's cool compared to smoke, so it may feel harsh until you get used to it.

I can bore the pants off you if you want more info, just send me an email.


Thanks for the reply.
I'll email you in the next day or so.
 
2013-01-24 04:22:53 AM

gh0strid3r: I'm talking about the exposure to a chemical someone may have struggled to give up


haha!

you're funny.
 
2013-01-24 04:27:02 AM

Boojum2k: OgreMagi: The dissipation of ecigarette fumes happens so fast that you would have to have your face right in it to get even a minimal amount of the vapors into your system.

Compared to the vapors he's already getting, it would be insignificant.


That was my entire point. But it's nearly impossible to talk any sense to the radical anti-smokers. For example, I was standing by the curb in the financial district of San Francisco, at one of the busiest intersections in the city during rush hour having a cigarette when one of those radical anti-smokers started biatching at me about how I was ruining her health. All I could do was look at her and say, "you've got to be farking kidding me?"
 
2013-01-24 04:34:19 AM
I have an E-cig, and would feel better if someone other than the manufacturer was doing quality checks. I don't particularly care who in principal.
 
2013-01-24 04:39:32 AM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: I would never suggest anyone switch nicotine out for Ativan or Zanax. I do take Ativan myself sometimes, but it's not very often and only in extreme circumstances, but before the anxiety becomes so extreme I freak out over basically nothing. I have a huge issue with medical personnel because of a very bad car accident when I was 13, and I ended up in the hospital for nearly two months. Well, I just got out of the hospital again slightly more than 24 hours ago after spending a week in there. They kept me on Ativan the whole time I was there, simply because they could work with me and reason with me easier. I'm in my 40's now and that anxiety about hospitals and doctors and nurses is still so strong they sedate me if it's more than just a simple recheck. Now that I'm home again, in my own bed, cuddled with my own cat, I think I've only taken it twice (including about half an hour ago). So it's not that it's a long term cig substitute for me, it's just a necessary evil for me once in a while. I'm sure it would benefit others short term or occasionally as well. Ativan also makes me much more pleasant and laid back, so I'm sure my family wishes I was on it all the time! Not gonna happen though. I don't own any hippie type clothing, which I think is a requirement for long term, chronic users, which I obviously am not.


Goddess I think I love you and I want to know more about this Ativan. EIP.
 
2013-01-24 04:39:32 AM

ceebeecates4: For anyone looking to quit, try Chantix.

It's expensive (esp if you have shiatty insurance) and it's dangerous (esp if you have mental issues).

It's also extremely effective.


I remember we spent at least one class period of abnormal psych. with my professor talking about how chantix works by blocking dopamine receptors, effectively inducing a state of clinical depression. Apparently the logic is that if you can't enjoy life then you won't enjoy smoking therefore it will be easier to quit. All the other side-effects aside (no pun intended) there's a serious suicide trend among people who take it.

I wouldn't call it "extremely effective" personally.
 
2013-01-24 04:41:12 AM

OgreMagi: gh0strid3r: OgreMagi: 180IQ: gh0strid3r: zerth: Gas chromotography of exhaled vapor is unable to detect the presence of nicotine, although mass spectrometry can(in the parts per billion range).

You'd get more nicotine if you licked the roof of a smoker's mouth(approx 2% of nicotine vapor gets absorbed by saliva).

[...]

Yet the effects are still unknown.

Studies done: 0

I don't care what people do to their own bodies. That's their business and I don't think anyone, including the government, should have any say about it. But when you start affecting others against their will, that's where I have a problem.

You must be TERRIFIED of scented candles. All sorts of unknown chemicals released in to the air you breath in amounts far in excess of the nicotine content of e-cig vapor. Virtually no regulation. No studies showing how dangerous they truly are...

I don't know what you'd do if you spotted a Glade Plugin. Those things could pose a serious, yet completely unknown, risk to your health.

He's going to turn into a basket case if anyone ever tells him about car exhaust fumes.

You both missed my point. There are no ex-users of those other products that had to fight to break their addiction. I'm not talking about the toxicity, I'm talking about the exposure to a chemical someone may have struggled to give up, and now have to deal with on a whole new level because some douche nozzle on TV says it doesn't bother those around him.

You are imagining things that aren't there. The dissipation of ecigarette fumes happens so fast that you would have to have your face right in it to get even a minimal amount of the vapors into your system.


Interesting that you know this when there have been no studies on the subject.
 
2013-01-24 04:46:41 AM

Bonzo_1116: So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.


Big thread and I dont feel like reading all of it- no offense meant to anybody, but i'll read it in full later as i have things to do- I want them to regulate this stuff. I do not trust anything foodwise coming out of China, and this is a consumable product- it works for me.
If they add melamine to baby formula, I cant trust them, unless its a friends family or something.
I turned away salesmen last week "smoking" the damn things in my store, and i was ready to bounce them after they said the source of the juice ( nicotine ) wasnt from at least this hemisphere. I let my boss do it after i told them i would buy 2 cases if is was made in America. He agreed. He is from India, originally.He threw them out.
 
2013-01-24 04:48:03 AM
 
2013-01-24 04:49:33 AM
I smoke, boss doesnt, if that matters, btw. And sometimes I smoke Canadians and UK also.
But we did invent the bloody things, and we tend to make the best. at delivering cancer. we're number one ?
 
2013-01-24 04:54:21 AM

gh0strid3r: Interesting that you know this when there have been no studies on the subject.


Just because you don't know of any studies doesn't mean they don't exist.

I mean, you could have at least checked Wikipedia before you doubled-down on that (clearly false) claim.

It's like you're not even trying.

7/10 -- I took the bait.
 
2013-01-24 04:55:17 AM

alienated: Bonzo_1116: So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.

Big thread and I dont feel like reading all of it- no offense meant to anybody, but i'll read it in full later as i have things to do- I want them to regulate this stuff. I do not trust anything foodwise coming out of China, and this is a consumable product- it works for me.
If they add melamine to baby formula, I cant trust them, unless its a friends family or something.
I turned away salesmen last week "smoking" the damn things in my store, and i was ready to bounce them after they said the source of the juice ( nicotine ) wasnt from at least this hemisphere. I let my boss do it after i told them i would buy 2 cases if is was made in America. He agreed. He is from India, originally.He threw them out.


I agree with you, it's something you're breathing into you're lungs you should know and trust what it is and well truthfully the e-cigs I've tried I cough worse than with my first cigarette.
 
2013-01-24 04:56:51 AM

180IQ: It's like you're not even trying.


I have him labeled as an anti vaxxer, so he probably isn't trying.
 
2013-01-24 05:01:28 AM

log_jammin: 180IQ: It's like you're not even trying.

I have him labeled as an anti vaxxer, so he probably isn't trying.


Wow, you really haven't read all my comments.
 
2013-01-24 05:02:33 AM

log_jammin: gh0strid3r: nteresting that you know this when there have been no studies on the subject.

"Few, if any, chemicals at levels detected in electronic cigarettes raise serious health concerns," the authors said. "Although the existing research does not warrant a conclusion that electronic cigarettes are safe in absolute terms and further clinical studies are needed to comprehensively assess the safety of electronic cigarettes, a preponderance of the available evidence shows them to be much safer than tobacco cigarettes and comparable in toxicity to conventional nicotine replacement products."


Inconclusive at best, and even if it's true, I'd still flatten your nose if you blow that crap in my face.
 
2013-01-24 05:03:05 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: I agree with you, it's something you're breathing into you're lungs you should know and trust what it is and well truthfully the e-cigs I've tried I cough worse than with my first cigarette.


Thinking of that route for quitting ? Plus- I knew that I had you faved for lucky green.
 
2013-01-24 05:03:45 AM
* for a reason. dammit. Sorry.
 
2013-01-24 05:06:29 AM

gh0strid3r: Inconclusive at best, and even if it's true, I'd still flatten your nose if you blow that crap in my face.


It's one study that I took 5 minutes to find. You could probably find more if you actually wanted to know.

also...If you flattened my nose, you'd get arrested and I still be puffing on my e-cig.
 
2013-01-24 05:12:28 AM

alienated: tinfoil-hat maggie: I agree with you, it's something you're breathing into you're lungs you should know and trust what it is and well truthfully the e-cigs I've tried I cough worse than with my first cigarette.

Thinking of that route for quitting ? Plus- I knew that I had you faved for lucky green.


I'm going to quit smoking again soon. I've done it many times but I think the patches and gum works best but keep some smokes handy for when you break and don't feel like you've lost the fight, just hang in there and try to only take a few puffs before you hate you're self and put it out. I'm just waiting for my new meds to kick in but I'm afraid citralopram isn't doing it for me.

/We'll see, who knows maybe I'll go back to prozac.
 
2013-01-24 05:28:33 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: alienated: tinfoil-hat maggie: I agree with you, it's something you're breathing into you're lungs you should know and trust what it is and well truthfully the e-cigs I've tried I cough worse than with my first cigarette.

Thinking of that route for quitting ? Plus- I knew that I had you faved for lucky green.

I'm going to quit smoking again soon. I've done it many times but I think the patches and gum works best but keep some smokes handy for when you break and don't feel like you've lost the fight, just hang in there and try to only take a few puffs before you hate you're self and put it out. I'm just waiting for my new meds to kick in but I'm afraid citralopram isn't doing it for me.

/We'll see, who knows maybe I'll go back to prozac.


I will think double good thoughts, and email you my home number if you want to leave a long ragerant on a machine. i will send you an nda, meaning that unless you want it to- it will never be uploaded, anywhere.
 
2013-01-24 05:40:38 AM

alienated: tinfoil-hat maggie: alienated: tinfoil-hat maggie: I agree with you, it's something you're breathing into you're lungs you should know and trust what it is and well truthfully the e-cigs I've tried I cough worse than with my first cigarette.

Thinking of that route for quitting ? Plus- I knew that I had you faved for lucky green.

I'm going to quit smoking again soon. I've done it many times but I think the patches and gum works best but keep some smokes handy for when you break and don't feel like you've lost the fight, just hang in there and try to only take a few puffs before you hate you're self and put it out. I'm just waiting for my new meds to kick in but I'm afraid citralopram isn't doing it for me.

/We'll see, who knows maybe I'll go back to prozac.

I will think double good thoughts, and email you my home number if you want to leave a long ragerant on a machine. i will send you an nda, meaning that unless you want it to- it will never be uploaded, anywhere.


Cool, you can EM me anytime just let me know who you are so I don't accidentally mark you as spam. And ragerant sounds fun and sorta what I've been feeling like but whats an NDA?

/Oh wait I think I got now never mind, and I would prefer any communication stay private that stay private.
//I mean I can distribute the naked pics of myself all on my own ; D
 
2013-01-24 05:45:11 AM
harrydorcas: The American FDA should listen to Dr. Patrick Basham, founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with Cato's Center for Representative Government.

Honestly, if you haven't figured out by now that the Cato institute is one big clusterfark of liars for money, then why stop there? Why not just take science advice from creationists and public health advice from christian scientists?
 
2013-01-24 05:55:29 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: alienated: tinfoil-hat maggie: alienated: tinfoil-hat maggie: I agree with you, it's something you're breathing into you're lungs you should know and trust what it is and well truthfully the e-cigs I've tried I cough worse than with my first cigarette.

Thinking of that route for quitting ? Plus- I knew that I had you faved for lucky green.

I'm going to quit smoking again soon. I've done it many times but I think the patches and gum works best but keep some smokes handy for when you break and don't feel like you've lost the fight, just hang in there and try to only take a few puffs before you hate you're self and put it out. I'm just waiting for my new meds to kick in but I'm afraid citralopram isn't doing it for me.

/We'll see, who knows maybe I'll go back to prozac.

I will think double good thoughts, and email you my home number if you want to leave a long ragerant on a machine. i will send you an nda, meaning that unless you want it to- it will never be uploaded, anywhere.

Cool, you can EM me anytime just let me know who you are so I don't accidentally mark you as spam. And ragerant sounds fun and sorta what I've been feeling like but whats an NDA?

/Oh wait I think I got now never mind, and I would prefer any communication stay private that stay private.
//I mean I can distribute the naked pics of myself all on my own ; D


non disclosure agreement. it means i wont post any idendtifyng vids or pics. Audio is another thing/.
I have honored that promise since 2000.
 
2013-01-24 06:05:08 AM

alienated: non disclosure agreement. it means i wont post any idendtifyng vids or pics. Audio is another thing/.
I have honored that promise since 2000.


Yea, I'm slow but I figured it out but no sending out audio to the world just want work for me especially when I'm at my best drunk and distressed and needing a smoke. Oh my how would I ever be able to run for political office ?
: )
 
2013-01-24 06:11:28 AM
I use a Prestige brand esmoke. It's great at work where you don't have to freeze your nads off smoking outside. There are thousands of flavors to choose from and nicotine strength levels. It's the perfect crime.
 
2013-01-24 06:18:49 AM
You've gotta stop calling it "juice". That just sounds nasty.
 
2013-01-24 06:32:41 AM
I love my e-cig! I've been using mine since last August. Firstly, as an aid to cut right down and secondly, some of the flavour liquids are simply too nice! Currently in love with 'T-Juice' and a flavour they call 'Cubana'.

My mother has COPD and at Christmas, when she had her C02 level checked, it was 24. I persuaded her to get an e-cig. The next time she had her C02 levels checked, they'd gone down to 11. The other week, she had them checked again it was down to 5.
She's now got 2 e-cigs and she uses them to help her cut right down. She's gone from nearly 40 cigs a day to 10 cigs a day.
She's tried Champix, gum, lozenges, nasal sprays, patches and those silly little inhalators that look like a tampax and each one has failed. She's even had hypnotherapy in the past which, with limited success, worked. She's also almost 74 years of age. Her doctor is pleased with her progress.
And what's a real surprise to me is that she LOVES the vanilla flavour cartridges! If it means she's around for a bit longer yet, then the e-cigs stay. I'd rather her buy a pack of cartridges that's the equivelent to a carton of cigs, than a carton of cigs. The price difference alone means she's saving upwards of £50 a week.

As for the vapour produced - it evaporates, so there's nothing shared 2nd hand.
 
2013-01-24 07:01:31 AM

gh0strid3r: log_jammin: gh0strid3r: nteresting that you know this when there have been no studies on the subject.

"Few, if any, chemicals at levels detected in electronic cigarettes raise serious health concerns," the authors said. "Although the existing research does not warrant a conclusion that electronic cigarettes are safe in absolute terms and further clinical studies are needed to comprehensively assess the safety of electronic cigarettes, a preponderance of the available evidence shows them to be much safer than tobacco cigarettes and comparable in toxicity to conventional nicotine replacement products."

Inconclusive at best, and even if it's true, I'd still flatten your nose if you blow that crap in my face.


A tough guy, here. So tough, he threatens physical violence over water vapour. Yea, sounds like a scrapper to me.
 
2013-01-24 07:11:51 AM
The best thing I can say about ecigs is it caused me to quit smoking during a time when I had absolutely no interest in quitting. My wife bought an eGo-T kit, and it came with two complete eCigs. I started using the other one, and almost instantly began using it exclusively. That was almost 3 years ago. I still use my eCig occasionally, but it was far easier to wean myself off of that because I could vape the same flavor liquid over time while lowering the nicotine content to 0. If you've tried ecigs before and didn't like it due to the way it tasted, or how weak it was compared to a cigarette or how it burned your throat, you should try a different type. My suggestion to someone staring out would be to get an ecig that is adaptable to different methods of vaping-- the eGo is started with used proprietary batteries (which were expensive to replace), and was apt to leak due to the design of the tank system it used. It also put out very low voltage compared to some others on the market, and therefore less vapor and muted flavors.

I'm not affiliated with any company that sells this stuff, so I'm not spamming here, just offering advice:

If I was going to start vaping today, knowing what I know now, I would go with something like this: Main unit. It's not that expensive, it's bulletproof, it allows you to use cheaper non-proprietary batteries, and also to change voltages based on the batteries you use.

You're also going to need a battery charger capable of charging the different batteries-- like this one: Charger.

The batteries you can use with this are the 18650 (1 battery for 3.7 volt vaping), two 16340 batteries for 6 volt, or two 18350's for 7.4 volt. You can buy them there as well. They are much cheaper and last longer than the proprietary batteries ($7 vs. $20 each). Buy only protected batteries, which have a protection circuit that will not allow the battery to fire if there is a short or something. It's not necessary, but it doesn't cost any extra and you don't want to risk even the slightest chance of a battery exploding while you hold it up to your face.

Next you will need either an atomizer, cartomizer or a tank system.

Atomizers are kind of a pain because you have to almost constantly drip the liquid directly onto the heating element. They do produce excellent vapor, so if you are unemployed and sit around the house all day and the constant dripping you need to do isn't a problem, this may be for you. They work probably the best in terms of vapor production, are moderately cheap and last a while. They are not recommended for driving around with.

Cartomizers and essentially atomizers with filler material inside that holds liquid, so you don't have to constantly drip more in there. IMO, they are the best choice. They don't leak, hold a lot of liquid, are cheaper than atomizers, can be refilled and will generally last a few weeks at a time.

Tanks are good, but they look kind of freaky. A tank is basically a cartomizer with a hole or two punched in it and the tank full of liquid slid down over it. As you use the liquid, it wicks itself into the inner material. They work about as well as a cartomizer, since that's basically what they are, and the benefit is holding a ton of liquid. The downside is they sometimes leak, which is a problem, they look strange, and they are tough to fill sometimes.

You will have to match the resistance of the above to whatever type of voltage you're using. For 3.7v, you can use from 1.7 to 3.2 ohms. At 6v, 3.2 to 4.5 ohms. At 7.4v, 4 to 5 ohms. IMO, you should stay away from dual coil, as all it seems to do is kill your batteries faster without and real benefit. At the low end of the range for each voltage (like at 1.7 for 3.7v) you get better vapor production, more heat and less flavor. This is where personal preference comes in. Also, some liquids taste or vape better at one voltage and not another. You'll have to find out what you like on your own.

You will also need to buy what's called a drip tip. They cost a couple of bucks and attach to the above to give you something to put your lips on. the 306 type is used for atomizers, the other type with the O-ring at the bottom is used on cartomizers and tanks. Get whichever kind you need, and pick a color. I would stay away from aluminum and stainless tips, as they are not comfortable to suck on. I like the plastic ones but they make rubber and acrylic tips as well.

Liquids come in 1000 flavors-- everything from different cigarette types to waffle with syrup flavored. Everyone when they first start out begins with the tobacco flavor, trying to match what they are currently smoking (eventually you realize that tobacco tastes like shiat and move on to other flavors). A 30ml bottle costs around $12-$15 and lasts around 3 weeks to a month and a half, depending on your usage. They are made from flavorings, nicotine, water and either PG or VG or a mix of both. Generally PG means more of a throat hit and less vapor, VG is the opposite. I like a 80% VG to 20% PG mix, but again it's all personal preference. Choose also your nicotine level-- start out at the highest level when you are switching from cigarettes. It's not like smoking a cigarette where you smoke one in five minutes then you're done for a while. You can just take a single drag now and again. Gradually lower the nicotine level in your liquid over time- you will hardly notice the switch.

TL;DR: ecigs are good.
 
2013-01-24 07:13:03 AM

JohnnyC: The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I have used one for four years now.

That's pretty impressive. Like I said above, not one person I know who tried those stuck with them. The biggest complaint I heard from them was that the battery life was crap and they would find themselves out of luck until they could find a place to recharge their e-cig.


I've used one for almost 4 years too. People who get Chinese made pen style first generation ecigs are disappointed with performance? I'm shocked! Anyone who invests in a high quality ecig and tasty juice can quit smoking.
 
2013-01-24 07:20:30 AM

yukichigai: Gyrfalcon: Tobacco isn't regulated because it's tobacco, it's regulated because nicotine is on the pharmacological schedule. Being, you know, a drug.

Done in... uh... fark it I'm not going to count. First page anyway.

My only problem with this will be if it means smokers can't use e-Cigs on planes. Having dated a smoker, having friends who are smokers, I can tell you that anything that gives a smoker a much-needed hit of nicotine mid-flight is far preferable to spending 5 hours in a tiny metal box with a person slowly being driven insane by the receptors in their brain screaming for nicotine. Especially since most terminals don't let you smoke anywhere inside, so with recent security changes that winds up being a minimum of an hour without nicotine before they even board the plane.


Ahhh, poor people. How does anyone function being deprived of smoke for hours?
 
2013-01-24 07:29:00 AM
I just need to know how I am supposed to use an E-cig as a timer when I stick it under the fuel line of a fast moving admiral yacht's so that I rig it to explode between two gunboats on an war-torn river in Mali. (This trick is known as a 'Panama')
 
2013-01-24 07:31:20 AM
I was smoking 1.5 packs a day until March 5, 2012. That's the day I picked up an e-cig. I started with a decent, but not cheap kit(~$100).

Still smoke free, but now using a 6 volt device that, quite frankly, looks like a bong. I still use the original kit occassionally, as its just more discreet. Buy if I'm drinking - 6 volts all the way! Clouds of vapor and intense flavor.
 
2013-01-24 07:31:55 AM

Craptastic: AverageAmericanGuy: formerly nicotine-stained fingers

Where have I heard that phrase before?


He's been successfully reprogrammed, sir. And mega dittoes to you as well.
 
2013-01-24 07:37:50 AM
Yes, let's get together and ban the most effective device ever for getting people to quit smoking, which has no negative effect on those around the person using it.
 
2013-01-24 07:47:48 AM

JohnnyC: The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I have used one for four years now.

That's pretty impressive. Like I said above, not one person I know who tried those stuck with them. The biggest complaint I heard from them was that the battery life was crap and they would find themselves out of luck until they could find a place to recharge their e-cig.


I've been using an e-cig for over a year. I used to be a pack-a-day smoker, quit, restarted when my mother died, quit, restarted after I lost a baby, quit, relapsed after I had a baby in my forties and finally got him weaned. Then I got an e-cig. I love it. I've tried several varieties, and keep coming back to the dragonstixs. I plan to eventually wean myself off of it (the cartridges come in various strengths) but not just yet. Doesn't make me cough, doesn't have any odor, doesn't have second-hand smoke. To me, it's more like the gum, but with more satisfaction. The dudes I buy my supplies from are all former smokers, who have been using the e-cig for years now.
 
2013-01-24 07:56:46 AM
One of the most addictive personalities I know quit using e-cigs. Mostly because they were cheaper. Good job pants-wettingly afraid morality squad.
 
2013-01-24 08:08:52 AM

LowbrowDeluxe: One of the most addictive personalities I know quit using e-cigs. Mostly because they were cheaper. Good job pants-wettingly afraid morality squad.


i always thought an addictive personality was someone you liked hanging around with. guess i was wrong
 
2013-01-24 08:12:34 AM
Nicotine itself has been shown to have positive health effects for your brain, so essentially people are worrying about the other chemicals, which are no different than inhaling an odor. Are we going to regulate air freshener, perfume, and food odors now?
 
2013-01-24 08:22:32 AM
so since crack makes u happy we shouldn't worry about Amy Winehouse smoking it up
 
2013-01-24 08:32:01 AM

Jon iz teh kewl: so since crack makes u happy we shouldn't worry about Amy Winehouse smoking it up


They probably have a crack flavor.
 
2013-01-24 08:48:37 AM

gh0strid3r: log_jammin: gh0strid3r: nteresting that you know this when there have been no studies on the subject.

"Few, if any, chemicals at levels detected in electronic cigarettes raise serious health concerns," the authors said. "Although the existing research does not warrant a conclusion that electronic cigarettes are safe in absolute terms and further clinical studies are needed to comprehensively assess the safety of electronic cigarettes, a preponderance of the available evidence shows them to be much safer than tobacco cigarettes and comparable in toxicity to conventional nicotine replacement products."

Inconclusive at best, and even if it's true, I'd still flatten your nose if you blow that crap in my face.


Oh, you're a both a sensitive snowflake AND an ITG. You must be a real hoot at parties.
 
2013-01-24 09:07:48 AM

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I would prefer that they be regulated as drugs/medical devices, personally. I have used one for four years now. I was able to quit a 15-year long pack-a-day habit literally instantly, and dread the tobacco companies finding ways to make them so expensive and heavily taxed that they become less financially viable than cigarettes. At this point, I can spend $100 a year to support my desire for nicotine delivered in a manner that satisfies my oral fixation with no smoke, no second-hand smoke, no discoloration of my teeth, no nastiness to my breath or personal odor, and no side effects yet seen or known. I'm sure that the tobacco lobby is livid at the prospect of even 10% of smokers doing the same.  I'd rather get the solid tests and trials to make certain that it's safe and keep them available and practical.


I couldnt read a word of your quote because I was dumbfounded by how awesome your handle is.
 
2013-01-24 09:09:24 AM
i quit a 20+ year pack+ a day of marlboro reds with the e-cig.

I still use mine and haven't had the craving for an actual cigarette since the first puff on the "e"... Over a year ago.

It is simply the best, easiest and as far as I am concerned only simple way to quit cigarettes.

it is literally a godsend.
 
2013-01-24 09:14:00 AM

JohnnyC: ng2810: Bullshiat.

Perhaps I should rephrase... E-cigs people I know (which I did say before too) have tried were shiat and they didn't stick with it more than a couple weeks. No need to get all upset about it.


They probably were not :

a) using a decent one

b) were not really interested in quitting

My wife, a professional smoker (over 20 years), had tried EVERYTHING, all the gums, all the patches, the prescriptions pills, the laser therapy, and was never able to quit.

Tried an e-cig one day, never looked back, seriously, it was that instant.

It's been over a year now, she was added a regular cigarette once and she couldn't even finish two puffs before it made her sick. Now the smell of cigarettes gross her out completely, as before, when she's try to quit via the other methods, she'd relish the disgusting smell.
 
2013-01-24 09:22:31 AM

BMFPitt: Yes, let's get together and ban the most effective device ever for getting people to quit smoking, which has no negative effect on those around the person using it.


Chantix is the most effective way to quit smoking. Hands down. It absolutely cannot be beat.
 
2013-01-24 09:24:12 AM
I love my ecigs... but I was never a smoker in the first place. Vaping is just too much fun! Just don't get a shiatty one from a gas station...order a kit.
 
2013-01-24 09:33:18 AM

ceebeecates4: For anyone looking to quit, try Chantix.

It's expensive (esp if you have shiatty insurance) and it's dangerous (esp if you have mental issues).

It's also extremely effective.


My husband is bi-polar and wanted to quit smoking. He asked his psychiatrist about Chantix and she told him "ABSOLUTELY NOT !!!"

Chantix is definitely not good for people with the crazies.

He has been using electronic cigarettes for a about 6 months now and is relying on them less and less. He is very happy with the results.
 
2013-01-24 09:54:50 AM
Definitely don't judge them by the gas station kits. (Or even the "luxury" retail kits like Blu..) Some people like them but they range from "omg wtf" to "ok. They are basically the equivalent of the cheapest nastiest cigs you can buy.. "Oh no, this $2.00 pack doesn't taste as good/smooth as my normal $7.50 pack!"

When I quit (for almost 6 years) I used wellbutrin and the patch together. Worked like a champ. (Take the wellbutrin for a few weeks, set a quit date, follow the patch directions while still taking the pills. No crazy suicide thoughts, etc.) I had a whole 15 minutes of hard time in the first week, and once it passed it was done. Even quit each level of the patch 1-3 days early and quit the patch completely on my wedding day. (We were in Jamaica, and I ended up having to waste half a cuban cigar - I felt the nicotine rush, peppy, etc and went "oh, thats not ok." Set it down and no problem.)

Been smoking again for a couple years, but my ecig (550 kit plus 550-t upgrades) is showing up tomorrow or Sat. Looking forward to it, its too damn cold out there..
 
2013-01-24 09:58:01 AM
Ran into a guy on a cruise ship smoking one. Did a doubletake as he was inside.

Used them some myself back when...I was never a heavy smoker...used disposables, which are a little pricey but very convenient. It's kind of like switching to diet coke. Not quite as good but better than nothing and in a few days it meets your needs.
 
2013-01-24 09:58:30 AM

pennygirl: Chantix is definitely not good for people with the crazies.


Chantix is great for quitting smoking, but it sucks for everything else. You have to be solid mentally to take it, because it works by blocking the pleasure receptors in the nerves, or something like that. Smokes taste like shiat and dont do anything for you, and thats nice, but what they dont tell you is that beer tastes like shiat, vodka might eventually get you drunk, but is not enjoyable and food is just food.

Get on it and off it ASAP.
 
2013-01-24 10:02:42 AM

RedPhoenix122: Good, considering we still don't know the long term effects.


Pretty much.

And, even if we did, it contains nicotine and thus should be regulated.

Otherwise we get flavored kids e-cigs... what's that? They already make those? Dammit!
 
2013-01-24 10:10:24 AM

Myria: I don't mind that the government is taking an interest in regulating an obviously addictive and potentially dangerous product. However, the government really needs to consider the harm reduction potential here.

Nicotine's not good for you, but it's by far not the worst thing in a cigarette. In the vast majority of cases, nicotine is not what kills a smoker. If we could get a significant percentage of people to quit smoking and start vaping, there presumably would be a decent reduction in cigarette mortality. Significant life and cost saving abound.

This is assuming that these products don't cause death some other way, which studying can determine.


I'm concerned about the possible lethal effects of studies. Seriously. WE DON'T KNOW if there are any lethal effects. Of course we have "common sense" and "logic" that tell us "No, that's silly," but these are just mental crutches and really don't take the place of methodical and meticulous double blind studies.

You rugged bootstrappy individualists can rely on your "common sense" and "logic" all you want, but I won't feel safe until the government has conducted a conclusive and unbiased study of the whole study issue.
 
2013-01-24 10:11:10 AM

RedPhoenix122: Good, considering we still don't know the long term effects.


We know very well the long term effects of nicotine, which is what e-cigs deliver (and sometimes some flavoring). I think it is a good thing for the FDA to regulate these products, since without regulation, who knows what unscrupulous manufacturers will begin selling. The FDA should be promoting the use of e-cigs by smokers, since all of the cancer and lung disease risk goes away, when a smoker switches. These e-cigs are becoming popular and it surprises me that the tobacco companies aren't all over them. They will replace the smoking of tobacco (at least cigarettes) in just a few years.
 
2013-01-24 10:29:17 AM
Subby, you're a retard.

Of course they don't contain tobacco.

However, they do contain nicotine. And other chemicals. But let's not let facts get in the way of your petty outrage.

Did you even read the article, subtard?

FTA: "The FDA will propose subjecting e-cigarette companies to rules that already cover the makers of regular cigarettes, such as providing the government with lists of product ingredients"

Makes perfect sense to me, subhuman. Or maybe you'd prefer that there be more products on the market made from all kinds of mystery materials?

And where do you think those e-cigarettes are made, submoran? USA! USA USA! ??? No, but thank you for playing. They're made in China. And we all know that China has such high standards.

But yeah, let's raise the alarm against this overreaching government regulation, subidiot.
 
2013-01-24 10:34:01 AM
Currently vaping peppermint hot chocolate flavor juice using my eGo, so getting a kick, etc.

Seriously, ecigs are the most effective way I've found to quit smoking, so of course Big Tobacco is scared shiatless - more people vaping = less people smoking = less $ for them.
 
2013-01-24 10:39:22 AM

RevMark: However, they do contain nicotine.


Nicotine has health benefits. It's the other garbage in cigarettes that kills you. Any reputable vaping liquid company uses only FDA approved flavorings. Your fear is unfounded.
 
2013-01-24 10:48:57 AM
Did anyone actually read the article? This is the designation the e-cig companies were hoping for, since the alternative was categorization as a medical device, which would have required them to conduct more costly safety and efficacy studies.
 
2013-01-24 10:53:00 AM

JohnnyC: I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


I need something for the physical habit, the oral fixation, of smoking. I've chewed the ends off of all my work pens, and go through half a dozen straws when I go out to eat.
 
2013-01-24 10:57:05 AM
JohnnyC


Good luck...We're all counting on you.
 
2013-01-24 11:14:32 AM

RevMark: Subby, you're a retard.

Of course they don't contain tobacco.

However, they do contain nicotine. And other chemicals. But let's not let facts get in the way of your petty outrage.

Did you even read the article, subtard?

FTA: "The FDA will propose subjecting e-cigarette companies to rules that already cover the makers of regular cigarettes, such as providing the government with lists of product ingredients"

Makes perfect sense to me, subhuman. Or maybe you'd prefer that there be more products on the market made from all kinds of mystery materials?

And where do you think those e-cigarettes are made, submoran? USA! USA USA! ??? No, but thank you for playing. They're made in China. And we all know that China has such high standards.

But yeah, let's raise the alarm against this overreaching government regulation, subidiot.


You're a dick.
 
2013-01-24 11:17:23 AM
E-cig is the only way I was able to quit. I now have one for a few puffs a night if work was particularly stressful. My e cig fluid has NO NICOTINE IN IT AT ALL. Lots of people use e-cigs with no nicotine. I've been quit for over three years now. I smoked for 15 years.
 
2013-01-24 11:23:40 AM

Madbassist1: The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I would prefer that they be regulated as drugs/medical devices, personally. I have used one for four years now. I was able to quit a 15-year long pack-a-day habit literally instantly, and dread the tobacco companies finding ways to make them so expensive and heavily taxed that they become less financially viable than cigarettes. At this point, I can spend $100 a year to support my desire for nicotine delivered in a manner that satisfies my oral fixation with no smoke, no second-hand smoke, no discoloration of my teeth, no nastiness to my breath or personal odor, and no side effects yet seen or known. I'm sure that the tobacco lobby is livid at the prospect of even 10% of smokers doing the same.  I'd rather get the solid tests and trials to make certain that it's safe and keep them available and practical.

I couldnt read a word of your quote because I was dumbfounded by how awesome your handle is.


Agreed. I just want to be in a reply chain with that handle.
 
2013-01-24 11:27:37 AM

untaken_name: Bonzo_1116: So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.

So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.


No, but anything that is extracted from coffee is a coffee product...

/assuming you know what extraction is
//if you dont then by all means say so
 
2013-01-24 12:07:07 PM
Thank you tobacco lobbyists.
 
2013-01-24 12:09:34 PM

salsashark1: Tobacco is nicotin. Dumass.


Guess you're going to have to put me down under the Dumbass colunm.
I always thought that nicotine was a part of the plant that is called tobacco.
 
2013-01-24 12:12:38 PM
I know of at least two people who successfully quit smoking cigarettes with e-cigs. IMHO whatever gets you off tobacco is A-OK. Whatever negative health effects e-cigs have pale in comparison to what inhaling tobacco smoke does.

My dad died from lung cancer that spread to his brain. Yes, you gotta die of something, but believe me, you don't want to die like that.
 
2013-01-24 12:22:10 PM

RevMark: And where do you think those e-cigarettes are made, submoran? USA! USA USA! ??? No, but thank you for playing. They're made in China. And we all know that China has such high standards.


FWIW the people I know who use the "good" ecigs (non-disposable or at least not retail) generally mix their own flavors from sane ingredients. (Most common recipe seems to be USA-made unflavored nicotine with VG, and/or the same with PG, and standard food-approved mint oils.)

/not subby
//my new ecig stuff is coming with Chinese goo from 'DeKang'
///Compare USA with China in their treatment of people selling contaminated food..
 
2013-01-24 12:30:42 PM
I really got to try e-cigs seriously. I bought a cheap-o one years ago, when they were still pretty much a novelty, and it was okay, but didn't really taste like a cigarette.

I ordered another one (there was a penny special kit from "Victory" e-cigs). Turned out to be a POS and doesn't produce a lot of vapor. I lost it about a week after I had it anyway. Damn company keeps trying to auto-bill me for refills even though there was not supposed to be a reoccuring chagre. Luckily I used a VCC.

Now leaning towards the BullSmoke brand when I do order another e-cig. Anyone try this one?

The problem is, Googling e-cig reviews brings up a bunch of fake-review sites, or the e-cigs that are supposedly rated as good, look NOTHING like a real cigarette (seriously, black with a green LED on the end?)
 
2013-01-24 12:32:05 PM

RocketRay: I know of at least two people who successfully quit smoking cigarettes with e-cigs. IMHO whatever gets you off tobacco is A-OK. Whatever negative health effects e-cigs have pale in comparison to what inhaling tobacco smoke does.

My dad died from lung cancer that spread to his brain. Yes, you gotta die of something, but believe me, you don't want to die like that.


You also don't want to die by freezing to death, getting tortured, watching your family die first.
 
2013-01-24 12:34:22 PM
E-cigarette manufacturers could have avoided this whole mess if they had just had the foresight to manufacture them in Utah and call them "nutritional supplements."
 
2013-01-24 12:43:02 PM

MBZ321: I really got to try e-cigs seriously. I bought a cheap-o one years ago, when they were still pretty much a novelty, and it was okay, but didn't really taste like a cigarette.

I ordered another one (there was a penny special kit from "Victory" e-cigs). Turned out to be a POS and doesn't produce a lot of vapor. I lost it about a week after I had it anyway. Damn company keeps trying to auto-bill me for refills even though there was not supposed to be a reoccuring chagre. Luckily I used a VCC.

Now leaning towards the BullSmoke brand when I do order another e-cig. Anyone try this one?

The problem is, Googling e-cig reviews brings up a bunch of fake-review sites, or the e-cigs that are supposedly rated as good, look NOTHING like a real cigarette (seriously, black with a green LED on the end?)


The cigarette shaped ones don't work well. Look for a Joyetech eGo battery and a clearomizer like a Kanger T2 or T3. E-Cigarette Forum has a lot of good information and helpful people.

Also, I would recommend dropping the quest to find something that tastes like a cigarette. There is just nothing out there that replicates the flavor of burning tobacco. Find something else you enjoy the flavor of. I wasn't able to quit smoking until I quit looking for a decent cigarette flavored juice.
 
2013-01-24 12:44:42 PM

bbcard1: Ran into a guy on a cruise ship smoking one. Did a doubletake as he was inside.


Did the same onboard a commercial airliner. (The guy wasn't actually using it, but couldn't take it away from his mouth nonetheless.)

And if they're based on tobacco products, I see zero reason myself why they should be treated any differently to tobacco products. They should be taxed the same, banned in the same places, and so forth.

I also don't believe they in any way help with quitting. They merely replace one dependency with another, and if anything strengthen the dependency by making it easier to obtain the nicotine in places that don't allow smoking, and without the side effects of the smoke / tar, thereby letting you get more nicotine than you usually would and strengthen your addiction.

And before anybody else dives in to say I know not of what I speak, I am an ex-smoker who smoked as much as a pack a day for many years. I also quit, cold turkey, on my first real attempt and without ny crutches like patches, gum, e-cigs, or any other nonsense. And I have been quit for many years now; haven't even come close to picking up a cig, even when others are smoking around me. And most significantly, I did all of this despite the fact that I have an addictive personality.

So how'd I do it? I wanted to quit. That simple. There's little point trying to quit when you don't really want to; you're just setting yourself up for failure. You have to strongly, strongly want to quit -- and you channel that energy into a continual reminder to yourself of why you shouldn't pick up and light that next cig. In my case, it was the result of an extremely bad cold that left me barely able to take a single drag off my cig without a major coughing fit, and the realization that one day if I didn't quit, I'd be like that *all* the time, cold or not. I used that visual to keep the cigs at bay; kept a partial pack in my pocket for the first week or two and never did more than take one out, look at it, and put it back in the box.
 
2013-01-24 01:00:59 PM
Not surprising given that it's the FDA who want to keep their piece of the taxation pie that's continuing to dwindle from lower tobacco sales. I've been vaping for over 2-1/2 years now and it's been fantastic. The overpriced small ones that look like a cigarette don't generally work out long-term -- almost everyone who starts with it and does a little research moves on to something with more kick.

They are not a gimmick or a fad. They're the most effective method to get off of cigarettes ever devised, and that's by a tremendous margin. I know many, many people who have successfully chucked tobacco because of them, some of whom I helped get started in the first place, either personally or through my YouTube reviews. And it feels damn good to have helped people toss the cigs. I just hope the FDA doesn't regulate them into near non-existence or uselessness.
 
2013-01-24 01:07:57 PM
By the government's standards, that's pretty logical -- in a relative sort of way.
 
2013-01-24 01:10:58 PM

gweilo8888: I also don't believe they in any way help with quitting. They merely replace one dependency with another

...

Meh, we're all dependent on some things. Take a way my coffee and I'll have a splitting migraine for days. That's true physical dependency, yet there's no problem with taking a kid to Starbucks because coffee really doesn't hurt you -- addictive or not. The problem with cigarettes is that they give you cancer -- not because of the nicotine, but because you're inhaling smoke. If the smoke is gone, so is the cancer, and so is the problem.
 
2013-01-24 01:13:19 PM

gweilo8888: bbcard1: Ran into a guy on a cruise ship smoking one. Did a doubletake as he was inside.

Did the same onboard a commercial airliner. (The guy wasn't actually using it, but couldn't take it away from his mouth nonetheless.)

And if they're based on tobacco products, I see zero reason myself why they should be treated any differently to tobacco products. They should be taxed the same, banned in the same places, and so forth.


Except that their being banned in places has to do with second-hand smoke harming others. E-cigarettes do not.

http://www.ivaqs.com
http://clearstream.flavourart.it

I also don't believe they in any way help with quitting. They merely replace one dependency with another, and if anything strengthen the dependency by making it easier to obtain the nicotine in places that don't allow smoking, and without the side effects of the smoke / tar, thereby letting you get more nicotine than you usually would and strengthen your addiction.

And this is a bad thing because...? E-cigarettes are a harm-reduction strategy. They are designed to eliminate all of the nasty stuff that's in tobacco, and to that end they are completely effective. Nicotne is not the demon you seem to think it is. Its effects are very similar to caffeine, including its addictiveness. If you drink coffee or caffeinated soda then you get the same effects I do, just perhaps not in the same quantities unless you drink a lot of coffee or soda on a daily basis.

That is relpaces one addiction for another is wholly irrelevant when the replacement is orders of magnitude safer than the one it replaces, and furthermore is much easier to wean yourself off of than the one it replaces. Tobacco contains loads of additives and produces tons of byproducts, some of which (monoamine oxidase inhibitors, nornicotine, anatabine) intensify the addiction. E-cigarettes do not have these. (There are a couple of companies who do make E-liquid containing whole tobacco alkaloids for those who are sensitive to the absence of the aforementioned chemicals, and they're not as healthy as other E-liquids, but they are still safer than tobacco.)

And before anybody else dives in to say I know not of what I speak, I am an ex-smoker who smoked as much as a pack a day for many years. I also quit, cold turkey, on my first real attempt and without ny crutches like patches, gum, e-cigs, or any other nonsense. And I have been quit for many years now; haven't even come close to picking up a cig, even when others are smoking around me. And most significantly, I did all of this despite the fact that I have an addictive personality.

Well, congratulations on quitting. I'm happy for you. No sarcasm. But you're the exception, not the rule. Most of us have tried to quit using myriad methods and nothing has worked. Except E-cigarettes, which for us were infinitely more effective and pretty much immediately supplanted traditional cigarettes. And those of us who successfully switched have seen marked improvements in our lung function and overall health. And I don't mean that anecdotally, many of us have had physical exams that have shown us that conclusively.

Do not condemn what you do not understand.
 
2013-01-24 01:17:27 PM

gweilo8888: bbcard1: Ran into a guy on a cruise ship smoking one. Did a doubletake as he was inside.

Did the same onboard a commercial airliner. (The guy wasn't actually using it, but couldn't take it away from his mouth nonetheless.)

And if they're based on tobacco products, I see zero reason myself why they should be treated any differently to tobacco products. They should be taxed the same, banned in the same places, and so forth.

I also don't believe they in any way help with quitting. They merely replace one dependency with another, and if anything strengthen the dependency by making it easier to obtain the nicotine in places that don't allow smoking, and without the side effects of the smoke / tar, thereby letting you get more nicotine than you usually would and strengthen your addiction.

And before anybody else dives in to say I know not of what I speak, I am an ex-smoker who smoked as much as a pack a day for many years. I also quit, cold turkey, on my first real attempt and without ny crutches like patches, gum, e-cigs, or any other nonsense. And I have been quit for many years now; haven't even come close to picking up a cig, even when others are smoking around me. And most significantly, I did all of this despite the fact that I have an addictive personality.

So how'd I do it? I wanted to quit. That simple. There's little point trying to quit when you don't really want to; you're just setting yourself up for failure. You have to strongly, strongly want to quit -- and you channel that energy into a continual reminder to yourself of why you shouldn't pick up and light that next cig. In my case, it was the result of an extremely bad cold that left me barely able to take a single drag off my cig without a major coughing fit, and the realization that one day if I didn't quit, I'd be like that *all* the time, cold or not. I used that visual to keep the cigs at bay; kept a partial pack in my pocket for the first week or two and never did more than take one out, look a ...


You don't know what you're talking about because you have no experience with the ecig. With the ecig you are able to control how much nicotine you are getting. It's as if they had Marlboros with 100% of the regular amount of nicotine down to Marlboros with 0 nicotine, yet they tasted the same. Can you understand how this might be beneficial to someone that was looking to quit?
Even if it was replacing one with the other, which some people do, cigarettes are a hell of a lot more harmful than ecigs.
 
2013-01-24 01:21:42 PM

I want your skull: MBZ321: I really got to try e-cigs seriously. I bought a cheap-o one years ago, when they were still pretty much a novelty, and it was okay, but didn't really taste like a cigarette.

I ordered another one (there was a penny special kit from "Victory" e-cigs). Turned out to be a POS and doesn't produce a lot of vapor. I lost it about a week after I had it anyway. Damn company keeps trying to auto-bill me for refills even though there was not supposed to be a reoccuring chagre. Luckily I used a VCC.

Now leaning towards the BullSmoke brand when I do order another e-cig. Anyone try this one?

The problem is, Googling e-cig reviews brings up a bunch of fake-review sites, or the e-cigs that are supposedly rated as good, look NOTHING like a real cigarette (seriously, black with a green LED on the end?)

The cigarette shaped ones don't work well. Look for a Joyetech eGo battery and a clearomizer like a Kanger T2 or T3. E-Cigarette Forum has a lot of good information and helpful people.

Also, I would recommend dropping the quest to find something that tastes like a cigarette. There is just nothing out there that replicates the flavor of burning tobacco. Find something else you enjoy the flavor of. I wasn't able to quit smoking until I quit looking for a decent cigarette flavored juice.


I mentioned it in an earlier post but IMO it's better in the long run to get something like the maxi roughstack V2, because it gives you the ability to use much cheaper batteries, and switch from 3.7 to 6 to 7.4 volts just by changing which battery you use. Those eGo batteries don't last as long, don't hold a charge as long, put out lower voltage, and cost about 3-4 times as much-- more if you wanted to go variable voltage.
 
2013-01-24 01:38:13 PM

Wise_Guy: I want your skull: MBZ321: I really got to try e-cigs seriously. I bought a cheap-o one years ago, when they were still pretty much a novelty, and it was okay, but didn't really taste like a cigarette.

I ordered another one (there was a penny special kit from "Victory" e-cigs). Turned out to be a POS and doesn't produce a lot of vapor. I lost it about a week after I had it anyway. Damn company keeps trying to auto-bill me for refills even though there was not supposed to be a reoccuring chagre. Luckily I used a VCC.

Now leaning towards the BullSmoke brand when I do order another e-cig. Anyone try this one?

The problem is, Googling e-cig reviews brings up a bunch of fake-review sites, or the e-cigs that are supposedly rated as good, look NOTHING like a real cigarette (seriously, black with a green LED on the end?)

The cigarette shaped ones don't work well. Look for a Joyetech eGo battery and a clearomizer like a Kanger T2 or T3. E-Cigarette Forum has a lot of good information and helpful people.

Also, I would recommend dropping the quest to find something that tastes like a cigarette. There is just nothing out there that replicates the flavor of burning tobacco. Find something else you enjoy the flavor of. I wasn't able to quit smoking until I quit looking for a decent cigarette flavored juice.

I mentioned it in an earlier post but IMO it's better in the long run to get something like the maxi roughstack V2, because it gives you the ability to use much cheaper batteries, and switch from 3.7 to 6 to 7.4 volts just by changing which battery you use. Those eGo batteries don't last as long, don't hold a charge as long, put out lower voltage, and cost about 3-4 times as much-- more if you wanted to go variable voltage.


ACtually, I'd recommend something like the Joyetech eGo-C Twist or Vision Spinner. They're pretty dirt cheap ($20-35 depending on what model and where you get them) and give you 3.3-4.8V capability in 650-1300mAh capacities. They don't have the muscle of larger mods, granted, but they're perfect for a beginner and usually what recommend to those just starting out.

Add a Kanger T2 (my current favourite clearo) and you've got a pretty great setup. Even I'm using a Spinner with a T2 right now (plus an iTaste with a SmokTech carto in a glass tank), just ebcause it works really well for what it is and what I'm using on it.
 
2013-01-24 01:46:01 PM
Used to smoke heavily and did the Camel Snus (later Marlboro and the real Swedish stuff).
Enter FSC (Fire Standard Cigarettes) the biggest piece of shiat the asshole government has passed since the USA PATRIOT Act. They add more dangerous chemicals to already dangerous cigarettes, because why the fark not? Well those chemicals made me vomit...constantly.
SO
I decided to cut back, and I began to rolled my own cigs for a time and vaped for a year. During that year, I quit smoking altogether.
Vaping became too much of a chore, always refilling and charging, so I switched to snus..then chew.
That gave me a good hit, but then I wanted more. So I started vaping and doing chew/snus.
But sometimes vaping was a hassle, so I would smoke on a very rare occasion (still made me sick).
At one point I was doing snus, e-cigs, chew, and cigs.

I was a hardcore nicotine fiend. The shiat is dangerous...really dangerous. Finally, 4 months ago I quit smoking altogether. I even stayed true to no smoke through my car dying, stress of a job change, bills piling up, and more loans. If I made it through that, I am ready to stay quit.
 
2013-01-24 01:47:47 PM

imfallen_angel: JohnnyC: ng2810: Bullshiat.

Perhaps I should rephrase... E-cigs people I know (which I did say before too) have tried were shiat and they didn't stick with it more than a couple weeks. No need to get all upset about it.

They probably were not :

a) using a decent one

b) were not really interested in quitting

My wife, a professional smoker (over 20 years), had tried EVERYTHING, all the gums, all the patches, the prescriptions pills, the laser therapy, and was never able to quit.

Tried an e-cig one day, never looked back, seriously, it was that instant.

It's been over a year now, she was added a regular cigarette once and she couldn't even finish two puffs before it made her sick. Now the smell of cigarettes gross her out completely, as before, when she's try to quit via the other methods, she'd relish the disgusting smell.


What the fark? Laser therapy? How in the hell does that work?
 
2013-01-24 01:50:59 PM

Psychopusher: Wise_Guy: I want your skull: MBZ321: I really got to try e-cigs seriously. I bought a cheap-o one years ago, when they were still pretty much a novelty, and it was okay, but didn't really taste like a cigarette.

I ordered another one (there was a penny special kit from "Victory" e-cigs). Turned out to be a POS and doesn't produce a lot of vapor. I lost it about a week after I had it anyway. Damn company keeps trying to auto-bill me for refills even though there was not supposed to be a reoccuring chagre. Luckily I used a VCC.

Now leaning towards the BullSmoke brand when I do order another e-cig. Anyone try this one?

The problem is, Googling e-cig reviews brings up a bunch of fake-review sites, or the e-cigs that are supposedly rated as good, look NOTHING like a real cigarette (seriously, black with a green LED on the end?)

The cigarette shaped ones don't work well. Look for a Joyetech eGo battery and a clearomizer like a Kanger T2 or T3. E-Cigarette Forum has a lot of good information and helpful people.

Also, I would recommend dropping the quest to find something that tastes like a cigarette. There is just nothing out there that replicates the flavor of burning tobacco. Find something else you enjoy the flavor of. I wasn't able to quit smoking until I quit looking for a decent cigarette flavored juice.

I mentioned it in an earlier post but IMO it's better in the long run to get something like the maxi roughstack V2, because it gives you the ability to use much cheaper batteries, and switch from 3.7 to 6 to 7.4 volts just by changing which battery you use. Those eGo batteries don't last as long, don't hold a charge as long, put out lower voltage, and cost about 3-4 times as much-- more if you wanted to go variable voltage.

ACtually, I'd recommend something like the Joyetech eGo-C Twist or Vision Spinner. They're pretty dirt cheap ($20-35 depending on what model and where you get them) and give you 3.3-4.8V capability in 650-1300mAh capacities. They don't h ...


Despite having started with an eGo, I wouldn't recommend anyone buying any of those with the proprietary batteries. Batteries are going to die eventually, or in the very least hold their charge for a shorter and shorter time. You don't want to have to purchase 2 $25 batteries to start (needing one to be ready when the other quits), when you can buy something that takes $7 batteries. IMO, there's no reason you should lock yourself into those batteries when there are much cheaper options available.
 
2013-01-24 01:58:10 PM

DeathCipris: What the fark? Laser therapy? How in the hell does that work?


Like acupuncture... they beam a laser inside the ear (not the canal, just somewhere inside the ear).
 
2013-01-24 01:58:59 PM

Psychopusher: Wise_Guy: I want your skull: MBZ321: I really got to try e-cigs seriously. I bought a cheap-o one years ago, when they were still pretty much a novelty, and it was okay, but didn't really taste like a cigarette.

I ordered another one (there was a penny special kit from "Victory" e-cigs). Turned out to be a POS and doesn't produce a lot of vapor. I lost it about a week after I had it anyway. Damn company keeps trying to auto-bill me for refills even though there was not supposed to be a reoccuring chagre. Luckily I used a VCC.

Now leaning towards the BullSmoke brand when I do order another e-cig. Anyone try this one?

The problem is, Googling e-cig reviews brings up a bunch of fake-review sites, or the e-cigs that are supposedly rated as good, look NOTHING like a real cigarette (seriously, black with a green LED on the end?)

The cigarette shaped ones don't work well. Look for a Joyetech eGo battery and a clearomizer like a Kanger T2 or T3. E-Cigarette Forum has a lot of good information and helpful people.

Also, I would recommend dropping the quest to find something that tastes like a cigarette. There is just nothing out there that replicates the flavor of burning tobacco. Find something else you enjoy the flavor of. I wasn't able to quit smoking until I quit looking for a decent cigarette flavored juice.

I mentioned it in an earlier post but IMO it's better in the long run to get something like the maxi roughstack V2, because it gives you the ability to use much cheaper batteries, and switch from 3.7 to 6 to 7.4 volts just by changing which battery you use. Those eGo batteries don't last as long, don't hold a charge as long, put out lower voltage, and cost about 3-4 times as much-- more if you wanted to go variable voltage.

ACtually, I'd recommend something like the Joyetech eGo-C Twist or Vision Spinner. They're pretty dirt cheap ($20-35 depending on what model and where you get them) and give you 3.3-4.8V capability in 650-1300mAh capacities. They don't h ...


I agree with this. An eGo with a Kanger clearo is definitely a better setup for a beginner. I've been vaping for a while and I'm still using this setup. It's portable, easy to use, and if I carry two batteries with me, it lasts all day.

Also, just curious, what vender do you guys use for juices? Or do you DIY? I pretty much get all of mine from Mt. Baker Vapor.
 
2013-01-24 02:02:45 PM

imfallen_angel: DeathCipris: What the fark? Laser therapy? How in the hell does that work?

Like acupuncture... they beam a laser inside the ear (not the canal, just somewhere inside the ear).


Wow, she must have been desperate to quit because that sounds hokey as horoscopes. I know the desperation in wanting to quit nicotine too. I can think of several people who quit smoking with the e-cigs. Conversely, I also know several people that used e-cigs for 2 weeks and went right back on the cancer stick. Like a previous poster said, there has to be a drive to quit. Without a desire to quit, e-cigs do nothing but prolong the addiction. But if someone wants to quit, they are a fantastic tool to quit smoking.
 
2013-01-24 02:12:33 PM

DeathCipris: imfallen_angel: DeathCipris: What the fark? Laser therapy? How in the hell does that work?

Like acupuncture... they beam a laser inside the ear (not the canal, just somewhere inside the ear).

Wow, she must have been desperate to quit because that sounds hokey as horoscopes. I know the desperation in wanting to quit nicotine too. I can think of several people who quit smoking with the e-cigs. Conversely, I also know several people that used e-cigs for 2 weeks and went right back on the cancer stick. Like a previous poster said, there has to be a drive to quit. Without a desire to quit, e-cigs do nothing but prolong the addiction. But if someone wants to quit, they are a fantastic tool to quit smoking.


Oh she was... she kept trying for over five years.

We seriously tried every thing that's out there... never lasted more than a few days.. her record had been about a month... but even if the claims are that the supposed nicotine withdrawals period is a week or two... her's never went away.

The last thing was hypnosis...
 
2013-01-24 02:19:22 PM

Wise_Guy: Despite having started with an eGo, I wouldn't recommend anyone buying any of those with the proprietary batteries. Batteries are going to die eventually, or in the very least hold their charge for a shorter and shorter time. You don't want to have to purchase 2 $25 batteries to start (needing one to be ready when the other quits), when you can buy something that takes $7 batteries. IMO, there's no reason you should lock yourself into those batteries when there are much cheaper options available.


True, but there are a couple of advantages to eGo-style VVs. First is their portability. They're easier to tote around, and they do offer a greater degree of voltage selection than simply swapping out batteries. For many, a smaller device is what they feel like they need to start out with. As much as we'd like to push a larger, more reliable, longer-lasting mod on them, many are intimidated by large mods or feel like they'd look/feel ridiculous using them. Many think even eGos are too much and want a slim -- though eventually even they usually end up conceding that maybe an eGo wouldn't be so bad after all. It may cost them more initially to start out with what we might call inferior products, but many people need that time and experience to learn and to acclimate to this whole E-cig thing. And for my money, if they're willing to go a bit bigger than a cigarette-style (but aren't ready for a proper mod), you can't beat the Twist or Spinner for a great introduction not just to vaping, but to simple variable voltage.

I want your skull: I agree with this. An eGo with a Kanger clearo is definitely a better setup for a beginner. I've been vaping for a while and I'm still using this setup. It's portable, easy to use, and if I carry two batteries with me, it lasts all day.

Same here. I have a ton of devices, and usually carry two or three around on my daily commute, but one of them is always an eGo-type variable like the Twist or Spinner, and often as not it's what I choose to take out with me when I'm going for a quick grocery or beer run exactly because it's relatively small and light and easy to tote around.

I want your skull: Also, just curious, what vender do you guys use for juices? Or do you DIY? I pretty much get all of mine from Mt. Baker Vapor.

I DIY a lot of my stuff, but also buy from a number of vendors. Most of the ones I buy from are in Canada but I have a few favourite US vendors as well. Halo, Pink Spot, Fuzion Vapor, Backwoods Brew, Indigo Vapor, and and VapeRite to name a few.

 
2013-01-24 02:21:18 PM
...less-than-slash-i-greater-than...
 
2013-01-24 02:32:59 PM
heh..."vaping"
 
2013-01-24 02:38:17 PM

Madbassist1: heh..."vaping"


Cigarettes produce smoke. Ergo, smoking.

E-cigarettes produce vapor. Ergo, vaping.
 
2013-01-24 02:39:03 PM
Madbassist1:

I couldnt read a word of your quote because I was dumbfounded by how awesome your handle is.

Thanks!

But if anyone is looking for American-made, I strongly recommend the Vea by Johnson Creek Smoke Juice, along with their juice products. All made in Wisconsin, and their e-cig is leaps and bounds better than any others I have tried over the years.

http://www.johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com
 
2013-01-24 02:42:14 PM
I picked up an EGO-t style e-cig about 2 weeks ago and will say that it is doing what I want it to do. Over the first week, I was weaning off of the regular cigarettes and eventually last Friday was the day I ran out of my regular smokes and have only been using the ego since then. Right now I'm vaping a "Brawndo" flavored juice from DFW vapor and it tastes like a thirst mutilator just raped my taste buds and is making them moan in pleasure. I don't have a desire to bum a smoke from anyone and honestly, this quickly after stopping the cancer sticks and exclusively vaping, the stench of cigarettes is downright nasty again.

A few years ago I did the chantix stuff, and I'm solid mentally, but man, did that ever mess with my emotions. My wife told me that i needed to quit smoking recently and told me that i needed to go back on chantix to quit as that helped us both back then. We did stop smoking for a long time, but eventually we both started back up again. When she told me to go on Chantix, I told her that there was no way in hell I would do that ever again and that I'd prefer to go with an e-cig instead.

I had tried in the past couple of years the cheap gas station variety e-cig and they are just nasty, don't satisfy at all, and don't last worth a crap. Go with an EGO style or better to start with and it makes it much easier.

Now, I just need to find out more flavors that I would like to vape and find a "go to" flavor for everyday.
 
2013-01-24 02:46:43 PM

DeathCipris: What the fark? Laser therapy? How in the hell does that work?


I was kind of wondering the same thing.
 
2013-01-24 02:51:27 PM

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: Madbassist1:

I couldnt read a word of your quote because I was dumbfounded by how awesome your handle is.

Thanks!

But if anyone is looking for American-made, I strongly recommend the Vea by Johnson Creek Smoke Juice, along with their juice products. All made in Wisconsin, and their e-cig is leaps and bounds better than any others I have tried over the years.

http://www.johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com


Yea, their stuff is really good. It is made with real sugar too, so it has an amazing flavor. Downside to real sugar is it goes through atomizers faster than just the regular stuff.
 
2013-01-24 03:03:52 PM

DeathCipris: The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields:

Thanks!

But if anyone is looking for American-made, I strongly recommend the Vea by Johnson Creek Smoke Juice, along with their juice products. All made in Wisconsin, and their e-cig is leaps and bounds better than any others I have tried over the years.

http://www.johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com

Yea, their stuff is really good. It is made with real sugar too, so it has an amazing flavor. Downside to real sugar is it goes through atomizers faster than just the regular stuff.


Definitely. But I still think I spend only about $50-$75 a year on juice, and maybe $25 on new batteries. WAY better than $68+ a carton here in Chicago.
 
2013-01-24 03:11:16 PM

JohnnyC: They're a novelty at best.


I can't disagree more, I switched 6 months ago and haven't looked back (and I used to hand-roll American Spirits, god I miss that).

FYI, the less they look like a "real" cigarette, the more effective it will be. Try using atomizers that have to be manually filled...
 
2013-01-24 03:12:39 PM

Psychopusher: Except that their being banned in places has to do with second-hand smoke harming others. E-cigarettes do not.

http://www.ivaqs.com
http://clearstream.flavourart.it


Except you're breathing back out some of that nicotine, and I'm sitting next to you inhaling it, and wondering why I suddenly want a cigarette. (Or actually, feel nauseous, because it's been long enough now since I smoked that there's no longer any craving when others smoke around me, just mild nausea.)

Psychopusher: And this is a bad thing because...? E-cigarettes are a harm-reduction strategy. They are designed to eliminate all of the nasty stuff that's in tobacco, and to that end they are completely effective. Nicotne is not the demon you seem to think it is. Its effects are very similar to caffeine, including its addictiveness. If you drink coffee or caffeinated soda then you get the same effects I do, just perhaps not in the same quantities unless you drink a lot of coffee or soda on a daily basis.


Except that there is a suggestion (yes, not entirely proven yet, but certainly pointed towards by the data) that nicotine itself can cause cancer.

But yeah, other than that. And the fact that you're mixing it with god-only-knows-what that hasn't been tested or regulated. And you're making those around you breathe it too.

But otherwise, oh yeah.

And incidentally, to the rest of your post I didn't bother to quote, I didn't "condemn" it, I merely said it doesn't work as a method of quitting (because it doesn't, it merely substitutes one addiction to another, whether or not that addiction is any less harmful), and suggested that if it is tobacco-derived it should be subject to the exact same laws.

If you want to use it, go right ahead. I don't condemn and couldn't care less. Just show the same consideration I'd expect if it was a real cig, and don't force me to breathe it too, please.
 
2013-01-24 03:13:09 PM

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: DeathCipris: The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields:

Thanks!

But if anyone is looking for American-made, I strongly recommend the Vea by Johnson Creek Smoke Juice, along with their juice products. All made in Wisconsin, and their e-cig is leaps and bounds better than any others I have tried over the years.

http://www.johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com

Yea, their stuff is really good. It is made with real sugar too, so it has an amazing flavor. Downside to real sugar is it goes through atomizers faster than just the regular stuff.

Definitely. But I still think I spend only about $50-$75 a year on juice, and maybe $25 on new batteries. WAY better than $68+ a carton here in Chicago.


Hell yea. By FAR a cheaper route, even in Virginia, which is home to PJ Morris and next door to RJ Reynolds.
 
2013-01-24 03:18:47 PM

gweilo8888: Psychopusher: Except that their being banned in places has to do with second-hand smoke harming others. E-cigarettes do not.

http://www.ivaqs.com
http://clearstream.flavourart.it

Except you're breathing back out some of that nicotine, and I'm sitting next to you inhaling it, and wondering why I suddenly want a cigarette. (Or actually, feel nauseous, because it's been long enough now since I smoked that there's no longer any craving when others smoke around me, just mild nausea.)

Psychopusher: And this is a bad thing because...? E-cigarettes are a harm-reduction strategy. They are designed to eliminate all of the nasty stuff that's in tobacco, and to that end they are completely effective. Nicotne is not the demon you seem to think it is. Its effects are very similar to caffeine, including its addictiveness. If you drink coffee or caffeinated soda then you get the same effects I do, just perhaps not in the same quantities unless you drink a lot of coffee or soda on a daily basis.

Except that there is a suggestion (yes, not entirely proven yet, but certainly pointed towards by the data) that nicotine itself can cause cancer.

But yeah, other than that. And the fact that you're mixing it with god-only-knows-what that hasn't been tested or regulated. And you're making those around you breathe it too.

But otherwise, oh yeah.

And incidentally, to the rest of your post I didn't bother to quote, I didn't "condemn" it, I merely said it doesn't work as a method of quitting (because it doesn't, it merely substitutes one addiction to another, whether or not that addiction is any less harmful), and suggested that if it is tobacco-derived it should be subject to the exact same laws.

If you want to use it, go right ahead. I don't condemn and couldn't care less. Just show the same consideration I'd expect if it was a real cig, and don't force me to breathe it too, please.


The "vapor" you see exhaled is mostly water vapor and Propylene Glycol.

"Some non-smokers have expressed concern about inhaling nicotine should they be exposed to exhaled vapor. It should be particularly comforting to observe that the quantity of nicotine in a puff of captured exhaled vapor too small--even if inhaled directly by a bystander--to have any health effects whatsoever. If a bystander were to lock lips with a user after each inhaled puff and take in the entire quantity of nicotine the user inhales, after 300 puffs the bystander would be exposed to 2.1 mg of nicotine, which is the approximate quantity present in a low-dose nicotine lozenge or piece of gum. At these quantities, nicotine is not a danger to health and does not cause addiction. Furthermore, the nicotine would be delivered much more slowly-at about 1/10 the speed of delivery from gum or lozenges."

There have been lots of research done on this, both private and public. So unless you are sitting there huffing the stuff directly from the source, your concerns are unfounded.

Source
 
2013-01-24 03:29:48 PM

gweilo8888: Except you're breathing back out some of that nicotine, and I'm sitting next to you inhaling it, and wondering why I suddenly want a cigarette. (Or actually, feel nauseous, because it's been long enough now since I smoked that there's no longer any craving when others smoke around me, just mild nausea.)


Clearly you didn't read either of the air quality studies I pointed you to, so it is pointless to respond to that until you have some factual basis for debate.

gweilo8888: Except that there is a suggestion (yes, not entirely proven yet, but certainly pointed towards by the data) that nicotine itself can cause cancer.

There is exactly zero evidence to support this. Not just "not entirely proven yet," not even remotely proven. No credible source has been able to find a single link between pharmaceutical-grade nicotine extract and cancer.

gweilo8888: But yeah, other than that. And the fact that you're mixing it with god-only-knows-what that hasn't been tested or regulated. And you're making those around you breathe it too.

I know exactly what I'm mixing it with. I buy mix it myself. USP propylene glycol, USP vegetable glycerine, USP nicotine in a PG base, and food-grade flavourings in a PG base. All food-grade or better, all within the GRAS statute. God doesn't need to know what. I already do. And regarding breathing it, once again, read the air quality studies I linked to. Or, if you're in the tl;dr camp: You're tilting at windmills.

 
2013-01-24 03:36:57 PM

salsashark1: Tobacco is nicotin. Dumass.


I believe tobacco CONTAINS nicotine. You can't plant nicotine and expect a tobacco plant to grow.
 
2013-01-24 03:51:36 PM

I want your skull: Also, just curious, what vender do you guys use for juices? Or do you DIY? I pretty much get all of mine from Mt. Baker Vapor.


I pretty much use Madvapes Top Vapor Black Licorice flavor exclusively. My wife vapes their Top Banana. At 30ml for around $8 you can't beat their prices: Link
 
2013-01-24 04:23:00 PM

Wise_Guy: I want your skull: Also, just curious, what vender do you guys use for juices? Or do you DIY? I pretty much get all of mine from Mt. Baker Vapor.

I pretty much use Madvapes Top Vapor Black Licorice flavor exclusively. My wife vapes their Top Banana. At 30ml for around $8 you can't beat their prices: Link


I've never had Madvapes, but I have heard good things about them. At that price, I'll have to check them out. Do you know if they have any coupon codes? Gourmet Vapor makes some good juices too, but they're a little on the pricey side. My all-day vape is black licorice from Mt. Baker. $10.99 for a 50ml bottle (less with their 10% off coupon code: vaporfrombaker).
 
2013-01-24 04:34:21 PM
I can't wait until they start heavily taxing sugar and junk food. The healthcare costs associated with obesity related diseases have surpassed those of tobacco related diseases.
 
2013-01-24 05:01:08 PM

I want your skull: Wise_Guy: I want your skull: Also, just curious, what vender do you guys use for juices? Or do you DIY? I pretty much get all of mine from Mt. Baker Vapor.

I pretty much use Madvapes Top Vapor Black Licorice flavor exclusively. My wife vapes their Top Banana. At 30ml for around $8 you can't beat their prices: Link

I've never had Madvapes, but I have heard good things about them. At that price, I'll have to check them out. Do you know if they have any coupon codes? Gourmet Vapor makes some good juices too, but they're a little on the pricey side. My all-day vape is black licorice from Mt. Baker. $10.99 for a 50ml bottle (less with their 10% off coupon code: vaporfrombaker).


Occasionally the have coupon codes-- they just had 10% off cartos but that expired last week. They also have a reward point thing where you earn points with each order then can apply them to future orders. It works out to like 5% back type.

I've tried a couple of flavors from Mt Baker and they were ok. Looking through my juice, I have lemonade, kahlua, cappuccino and watermelon from Mt Baker. I never tried their licorice but at that price maybe I will.
 
2013-01-24 05:12:53 PM
After trying the patch, Wellbutrin, and Nicorette, I quit smoking cigs completely within a few days with a cig-sized JoyeTech setup three years ago, but as I did more research I ended up using the eGo (then the eGo-T) with a 1000mAh battery. It'll go an entire day with constant vaping. I keep a spare battery, a USB charger, a tiny bottle of fluid and extra atomizer in my pocket.

I buy concentrated nicotine (10% in vegetable glycerin) online and dilute it with more glycerin, and a bit of propylene glycol to decrease its viscosity.

I use no flavorings, and as most vapers know, holding in your hit for 8-10 seconds will yield nothing when you exhale. If you do it right, nobody will see you vaping and nobody will smell or see anything. You can use it anywhere - at work, flying, etc etc.
 
2013-01-24 05:42:03 PM
Ive been vaping for 4months now, and I love it!
Ego-C with a clearomizer or Vision eternity atomizer is just the best...I even prefer it to regular cigarettes! I used to smoke a lot especially with coffee or when drinking, and i just enjoy the different eliquids available, making my own concoction, and being able to use a lower nicotine content liquid while enjoying a beer...

Funny thing is that in the UK airport I was at recently, i was told to not smoke my ecig because it confused people, and it would make them think that smoking was legal. Lame and stupid!
 
2013-01-24 05:52:01 PM

stryed:
Funny thing is that in the UK airport I was at recently, i was told to not smoke my ecig because it confused people, and it would make them think that smoking was legal. Lame and stupid!


Sounds like a good reason for the green lights and "doesn't look like a cig" :)

caution: After trying the patch, Wellbutrin, and Nicorette, I quit smoking cigs completely within a few days with a cig-sized JoyeTech setup three years ago, but as I did more research I ended up using the eGo (then the eGo-T) with a 1000mAh battery. It'll go an entire day with constant vaping. I keep a spare battery, a USB charger, a tiny bottle of fluid and extra atomizer in my pocket.


How did you like the tank setup? Getting started with a 'normal' kit but I also added on all the -t stuff. Being able to see the fill level was the biggest thing (and I know, dripping it in as you go is better, etc but frankly it sounds like a real PITA.)

/I know the battery life will be so-so on the "looks like a cig" ones.
//charging case and spare battery otw
///when the case battery goes I'll open it up and get a new battery pack.
////don't want one of the big crazy soda-can messes everyone recommends :)
 
2013-01-24 06:20:16 PM
About half the time you buy fish, you're not given what you wanted or paid for. You're unwittingly provided a low-quality substitute.

This is a widespread and deliberate fraud that affects nearly everyone.

Hey FDA, how about getting off the farking smokers for one farking second and doing something meaningful like addressing the fake farking fish issue?
 
2013-01-24 06:24:15 PM

disconnect: How did you like the tank setup?


I have been using the eGo-T tank system for over a year now and is great. Much better than soaking a piece of foam with liquid. Way too leaky. The tank never leaks and takes a few seconds to pop the cap off and refill.

I use the type-B atomizer in the low-resistance (1.8 ohm) style, and have recently started using the eGo-T "upgrade" battery than can do 3.7 and 4.2 volts.
 
2013-01-24 06:28:50 PM
When I was in the Air Force, you couldn't drink alcohol free beer unless you were 21.
 
2013-01-24 06:53:50 PM

caution: disconnect: How did you like the tank setup?

I have been using the eGo-T tank system for over a year now and is great. Much better than soaking a piece of foam with liquid. Way too leaky. The tank never leaks and takes a few seconds to pop the cap off and refill.

I use the type-B atomizer in the low-resistance (1.8 ohm) style, and have recently started using the eGo-T "upgrade" battery than can do 3.7 and 4.2 volts.


Minor point here, but the Upgrade battery works in either regulated 3.3V mode, or unregulated mode, the latter of which will operate at around 4.2V on a full charge, and drop from there as the charge depletes. I started with eGos and loved them to start, but I soon grew to prefer batteries with more oomph, so 3.7-4.2V for a fixed voltage battery is what I tend to favor if it isn't variable voltage/wattage.
 
2013-01-24 07:12:14 PM

ReverendJynxed: salsashark1: Tobacco is nicotin. Dumass.

I believe tobacco CONTAINS nicotine. You can't plant nicotine and expect a tobacco plant to grow.


can you plant MDPV and misc bath salts like methiopropamine?
 
2013-01-24 08:11:56 PM

Thunderpipes: yukichigai: Gyrfalcon: Tobacco isn't regulated because it's tobacco, it's regulated because nicotine is on the pharmacological schedule. Being, you know, a drug.

Done in... uh... fark it I'm not going to count. First page anyway.

My only problem with this will be if it means smokers can't use e-Cigs on planes. Having dated a smoker, having friends who are smokers, I can tell you that anything that gives a smoker a much-needed hit of nicotine mid-flight is far preferable to spending 5 hours in a tiny metal box with a person slowly being driven insane by the receptors in their brain screaming for nicotine. Especially since most terminals don't let you smoke anywhere inside, so with recent security changes that winds up being a minimum of an hour without nicotine before they even board the plane.

Ahhh, poor people. How does anyone function being deprived of smoke for hours?


By trying to stab their seatmate and forcing the plane to turn around.

Really, my interest is not one of compassion. I just don't want some asshat smoker on a cross-country flight to lose his crap and force us to divert to the terminal in Bugfark, Iowa so he can be dragged off the plane. Allowing him to use the equivalent of a nicotine inhaler to prevent this seems reasonable to me.
 
2013-01-24 08:45:33 PM

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: Madbassist1:

I couldnt read a word of your quote because I was dumbfounded by how awesome your handle is.

Thanks!

But if anyone is looking for American-made, I strongly recommend the Vea by Johnson Creek Smoke Juice, along with their juice products. All made in Wisconsin, and their e-cig is leaps and bounds better than any others I have tried over the years.

http://www.johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com


Funny thing to note, the eGo, Vea, Tornado, etc.. are all made in the same factory in shenzhen. And they are all identical.
 
2013-01-24 08:49:26 PM

Psychopusher: Clearly you didn't read either of the air quality studies I pointed you to, so it is pointless to respond to that until you have some factual basis for debate.


Let's see. One was in Italian (a language I don't speak), and from the URL appeared to be published by the manufacturer or its agent. In other words, unreadable and probably with little to no basis in fact. The other was in English, but quite clearly states from the get-go that it's a study made for a biased entity. (E-cig users who want to be allowed to use e-cigs without restraint.) So again, not impartial, and not worth reading.

So no, you're right, I didn't read either of them. Nor will I. Provide a completely independent study -- that is, one set up by somebody who doesn't directly profit from its "results" -- and I'll read it.

gweilo8888: Except that there is a suggestion (yes, not entirely proven yet, but certainly pointed towards by the data) that nicotine itself can cause cancer.

Psychopusher: There is exactly zero evidence to support this. Not just "not entirely proven yet," not even remotely proven. No credible source has been able to find a single link between pharmaceutical-grade nicotine extract and cancer.


Bzzt. Wrong.

"The Pharmacological Actions of Nicotine on the Gastrointestinal Tract
*William K.K. Wu1), *Chi Hin Cho1)

1) Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, The University of Hong Kong

Nicotine also takes part in the initiation and promotion of carcinogenesis in the GI tract."
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jphs/94/4/94_4_348/_article

There are more. That's just the first one I had handy.

gweilo8888: But yeah, other than that. And the fact that you're mixing it with god-only-knows-what that hasn't been tested or regulated. And you're making those around you breathe it too.

Psychopusher: I know exactly what I'm mixing it with. I buy mix it myself. USP propylene glycol, USP vegetable glycerine, USP nicotine in a PG base, and food-grade flavourings in a PG base. All food-grade or better, all within the GRAS statute. God doesn't need to know what. I already do. And regarding breathing it, once again, read the air quality studies I linked to. Or, if you're in the tl;dr camp: You're tilting at windmills.


Well, obviously your sample size of one means that everybody using e-cigs is using the exact same stuff you're using. Hence clearly the laws should be based solely on your use case.

Or you could just... I dunno... maybe not be a jackass and find somewhere private to use your e-cigs, and let other folks make their own choice whether to breathe your e-cigs along with you. Which is all I'm asking for.
 
2013-01-24 08:52:28 PM

DeathCipris: There have been lots of research done on this, both private and public


...and yet I've not seen anybody link to a source that's not either an e-cig manufacturer or a raving tinfoil hat website for this research.

You'll excuse me if I ignore your link, which is on a user-submitted (ie. any tinfoil-hat-wearing loon can post content) website, and which is clearly not unbiased based on even a cursory glance at its language.
 
2013-01-24 10:01:41 PM
The e-cig issue is great for separating those who are legitimately against smoking from those who are emotionally against smoking.
 
2013-01-24 10:47:01 PM
I've used them off and on for a few months. Near as I can tell they're okay for taking the edge off at work but aren't a legitimate substitute.
 
2013-01-24 10:52:39 PM
I'm in with the crowd that changed to eCigs. While the smaller devices that look and feel like cigs were a good starting point to get the idea - they just don't seem to do it. I jumped to an eCab from DFW Vapor (like someone above) and then to an eGo style. Haven't had a real cigarette in 5 months, I get a laboratory report with my eLiquid (so I know exactly what's in it), I feel a million times better and I get to keep the nicotine habit (along with the caffine habit ... mmmm coffee). I'd quit before, but always ended up smoking again - this doesn't feel like quitting.

While I'm aware that inhaling anything (even a mix of PG/VG/Water/Flavor/Nicotine) isn't great for you, overall harm by dropping ~4000 other chemicals in addition to those, 20 of which are known carcinogens for a substance with no measurable level of carcinogin is a win in the harm-reduction book for me. The lack of secondhand smoke, smell, ash, tar, litter, etc. are bonuses as well. For those looking for research, it is known that eCigs raise airway resistance, but so do other aerosolized inhalents (nicotrol inhaler, some propellants used in asthma inhalers, etc.). The devices are so new that the overall literature is slim on eCigs themselves, so information is largely put together now by small case study or corrolative studies on the ingrediants themselves. Some noteworthy items though are:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/249784.php (Found increased airway resistance)
http://blog.casaa.org/2012/12/e-cigarette-research-survey-new-case.ht m l (cardiac impact is similar to quitting smoking)
http://www.stop-tabac.ch/en/ECIG2012/ (probably the largest long-term study)
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/09/04/e-cigarettes-dont-harm-he a rt-study-shows/ (not bad for the heart)

The AHLA hasn't taken a stance either way really, and there are a few good open letters from prominent physicians on the harm-reduction aspect. While I can't say that they are totally safe, as an alternative I'm convinced by the data thus far that they are a much reduced risk for smokers. I even know vapers that use them without nicotine just for the flavor and pleasure of vaping. My wife liked them so much she just started a company around the idea (The Vaping Shop)
 
2013-01-24 11:11:26 PM
I smoke for 10 years, switched to V2 Ecig's in June. Stopped using them in late November...Havent smoke an ecig since. Best thing I could have bought.
 
2013-01-25 02:26:37 AM
In all fairness, all nicotine-delivery devices, including tobacco, should be regulated as medical devices. If the tobacco companies are willing to state that they do not believe their product is harmful, they should have no problem having their product tested for safety and efficiency.
 
2013-01-25 02:47:30 AM

salsashark1: Tobacco is nicotin. Dumass.


Are you really that stupid?

gweilo8888: I also don't believe they in any way help with quitting.


You two are both idiots. You should friend each other or something.
 
2013-01-25 02:52:32 AM

MBZ321: The problem is, Googling e-cig reviews brings up a bunch of fake-review sites, or the e-cigs that are supposedly rated as good, look NOTHING like a real cigarette (seriously, black with a green LED on the end?)


The more it looks like a real cigarette, the less well it works. In particular, if it's the size of a real cigarette, it's not likely to work very well.

When they start getting bigger, you can get a bigger battery that will do a better job, and the thing can hold more juice.

If you want to get a decent starter system, I recommend doing some research first.

And the best place for that is ECF - the E-Cigarette Forums.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com
 
2013-01-25 03:02:17 AM

JuggleGeek: You two are both idiots. You should friend each other or something.


Ah, name calling. The fall-back position of the person who has not one iota of information to back up his argument.
 
2013-01-25 07:21:24 AM

JuggleGeek: salsashark1: Tobacco is nicotin. Dumass.

Are you really that stupid?
gweilo8888: I also don't believe they in any way help with quitting.

You two are both idiots. You should friend each other or something.


no one needs help quitting. especially with insurance rates like they are. (crack/weed smokers pay extra cause of the lung damage they cause)
 
2013-01-25 08:11:57 AM
I bought my eGo-t about a year ago when I wasn't trying to quit cigarettes yet. I tried it for about a week or so while still smoking real cigs and didn't really get it. So I put it back in the box and forgot about it until around Christmas when I ran out of money. So I pulled out my e-cig and some juice that I had with it, and decided that since I am going to be quitting cigs for awhile anyway, I might as well quit for good. There's never going to be a more opportune time. I've quit lots of times before. It sucks. But this is different. It really is a great solution.

It also got a lot better for me when I stopped trying to replace a cigarette with the vapor. They're not going to taste the same. You might be able to find a similar taste to your preferred brand. I know I did. But I've found that I prefer to take a tobacco flavored juice, mix it with some rum-flavored juice, and maybe a little coffee or strawberry, or not. It's a nice flavor which doesn't remind me of the taste of a cigarette, or leave me wanting by not being close enough to the taste of a cigarette.
 
2013-01-25 08:46:58 AM

cedarpark: In all fairness, all nicotine-delivery devices, including tobacco, should be regulated as medical devices. If the tobacco companies are willing to state that they do not believe their product is harmful, they should have no problem having their product tested for safety and efficiency.


In all fairness, all caffeine-delivery devices, including tea kettles, should be regulated as medical devices. If soda companies are willing to stated that they do not believe their product is harmful, they should have no problem having their product tested for safety and efficiency.
 
2013-01-25 10:01:37 AM

gweilo8888: JuggleGeek: You two are both idiots. You should friend each other or something.

Ah, name calling. The fall-back position of the person who has not one iota of information to back up his argument.


you arent exactly rolling out Britannica to back up your entirely subjective position.


Psychopusher: Madbassist1: heh..."vaping"

Cigarettes produce smoke. Ergo, smoking.

E-cigarettes produce vapor. Ergo, vaping.


uh, yeah, I got that. Mine was more a comment on how farking utterly stupid the term sounds.
 
2013-01-25 10:41:49 AM

Madbassist1: uh, yeah, I got that. Mine was more a comment on how farking utterly stupid the term sounds.


Just getting into it but I have to agree. "Atty" "juice" "vaping" (makes me think of vamping, 80s style pinups not the twilight crap) "carto" .. the funny thing is, it seems to be mostly an older crowd making up these abbreviations. They should know better..
 
2013-01-25 11:41:00 AM

SteakMan: The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields:

But if anyone is looking for American-made, I strongly recommend the Vea by Johnson Creek Smoke Juice, along with their juice products. All made in Wisconsin, and their e-cig is leaps and bounds better than any others I have tried over the years.

http://www.johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com

Funny thing to note, the eGo, Vea, Tornado, etc.. are all made in the same factory in shenzhen. And they are all identical.


You may be right about the eGo and the Tornado and where they are made, as I have never looked that up, but the Vea definitely is a different design than those two. The batteries charge differently and the atomizer/tank is all one piece that is different than the others.
 
2013-01-25 07:27:46 PM

disconnect: Madbassist1: uh, yeah, I got that. Mine was more a comment on how farking utterly stupid the term sounds.

Just getting into it but I have to agree. "Atty" "juice" "vaping" (makes me think of vamping, 80s style pinups not the twilight crap) "carto" .. the funny thing is, it seems to be mostly an older crowd making up these abbreviations. They should know better..


Ok brainiacs, what would you call it? Oh, what's that? Just too cool for school?
 
2013-01-25 09:56:15 PM
I call it my e-cigarette thing, or e-cig for short. But I'm still pretty new at this.
 
2013-01-26 09:36:04 AM

lewismarktwo: disconnect: Madbassist1: uh, yeah, I got that. Mine was more a comment on how farking utterly stupid the term sounds.

Just getting into it but I have to agree. "Atty" "juice" "vaping" (makes me think of vamping, 80s style pinups not the twilight crap) "carto" .. the funny thing is, it seems to be mostly an older crowd making up these abbreviations. They should know better..

Ok brainiacs, what would you call it? Oh, what's that? Just too cool for school?


Sucking a fake dick?
 
2013-01-26 05:52:15 PM

untaken_name: gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders

Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?


There's a nicotine label in MSDS?? Material Safety Data Sheet?
looolllll
 
2013-01-26 09:18:38 PM

Madbassist1: lewismarktwo: disconnect: Madbassist1: uh, yeah, I got that. Mine was more a comment on how farking utterly stupid the term sounds.

Just getting into it but I have to agree. "Atty" "juice" "vaping" (makes me think of vamping, 80s style pinups not the twilight crap) "carto" .. the funny thing is, it seems to be mostly an older crowd making up these abbreviations. They should know better..

Ok brainiacs, what would you call it? Oh, what's that? Just too cool for school?

Sucking a fake dick?


I think that sounds a little sillier, myself, but whatever finds your lost remote.
 
2013-01-26 10:28:54 PM

lewismarktwo: Madbassist1: lewismarktwo: disconnect: Madbassist1: uh, yeah, I got that. Mine was more a comment on how farking utterly stupid the term sounds.

Just getting into it but I have to agree. "Atty" "juice" "vaping" (makes me think of vamping, 80s style pinups not the twilight crap) "carto" .. the funny thing is, it seems to be mostly an older crowd making up these abbreviations. They should know better..

Ok brainiacs, what would you call it? Oh, what's that? Just too cool for school?

Sucking a fake dick?

I think that sounds a little sillier, myself, but whatever finds your lost remote.


you're right it does sound sillier. I'm gonna steal that 'remote' quip of yours.
 
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