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(Bloomberg)   E-cigarettes, which contain no tobacco, will be regulated as tobacco products   (bloomberg.com) divider line 248
    More: Obvious, electronic cigarette, FDA, American Lung Association, IMS Health, nasal spray, cigarettes, methadone clinic  
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8653 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2013 at 1:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-24 01:16:01 AM
Good, considering we still don't know the long term effects.
 
2013-01-24 01:26:48 AM
So you have to be 18 to buy it and the cost to society will be paid via taxes on the sale? I'm not offended by this.
 
2013-01-24 01:38:09 AM
This isn't news to anyone paying attention the last couple decades. The government wants to take away your freedoms.

It's all for your health and wellbeing, citizen.

/formerly nicotine-stained fingers
 
2013-01-24 01:40:20 AM
Can we just get nicotine laced lollipops? People still get their nicotine fix and they pacify the oral fixation. There, no more smoking.
 
2013-01-24 01:40:21 AM
Tobacco is nicotin. Dumass.
 
2013-01-24 01:40:46 AM
B O G U S!
 
2013-01-24 01:43:10 AM
Brave men fought and died for your right to suck nicotine from a USB-powered tube.

FREEDOM!1!
 
2013-01-24 01:44:05 AM
So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.
 
2013-01-24 01:45:14 AM
Regulation leads to taxation. In 5 years my $20 30mL bottle of juice is going to run me $800.

Eff.

/25 Apr 2011?
 
2013-01-24 01:45:28 AM
I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.
 
2013-01-24 01:47:41 AM
I support this. There may be no tobacco and no smoke, but there is nicotine. While we don't know the amount, that nicotine is present in the vapor that's produced. Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders. Former smokers have a real concern here, because nicotine is the chemical they struggled to break their addiction to. What kind of affect will this new exposure have on someone still struggling with the habit? Now, before we hear the arguments about nicotine being found in every day products such as tomatoes, remember that we don't know the nicotine levels of second-hand vapors from e-cigs and this is being inhaled, not ingested. The natural biological filters of the digestive system are being bypassed.
 
2013-01-24 01:48:28 AM

Bonzo_1116: So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.


So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.
 
2013-01-24 01:48:34 AM
The American FDA should listen to Dr. Patrick Basham, founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with Cato's Center for Representative Government. He says that there are inconvenient facts about public health regulation the government are ignoring.
 
2013-01-24 01:49:29 AM

gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders


Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?
 
2013-01-24 01:49:56 AM
For anyone looking to quit, try Chantix.

It's expensive (esp if you have shiatty insurance) and it's dangerous (esp if you have mental issues).

It's also extremely effective.
 
2013-01-24 01:50:13 AM
Tobacco isn't regulated because it's tobacco, it's regulated because nicotine is on the pharmacological schedule. Being, you know, a drug.
 
2013-01-24 01:51:01 AM

untaken_name: gh0strid3r: Nobody knows what kind of affect that may have on bystanders

Are you insane? Or do you just not know what MSDS are?


There have been ZERO studies on the subject. I don't care what the MSDS says about the actual chemical. We don't know the amounts.
 
2013-01-24 01:51:18 AM
The e-cigarette consists of a battery, a heating element and a cartridge that contains a liquid suspension with nicotine. When a user inhales from the cartridge, the liquid is heated and a vapor is emitted. The nicotine is obtained from tobacco plants.
 
2013-01-24 01:51:38 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: formerly nicotine-stained fingers


Where have I heard that phrase before?
 
2013-01-24 01:51:41 AM

JohnnyC: I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


www.soshichan.org

http://www.soshichan.org/g/src/132813749143.gif
 
2013-01-24 01:53:03 AM

harrydorcas: The American FDA should listen to Dr. Patrick Basham, founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with Cato's Center for Representative Government. He says that there are inconvenient facts about public health regulation the government are ignoring.


harrydorcas should get his information from a blog that doesn't suck. Like Science-Based Medicine.
 
2013-01-24 01:54:13 AM

untaken_name: So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.


You apparently don't know that over 100 different plants produce caffeine... for starters... tea.

There are also a bunch of plants that produce nicotine as well. Some examples are tomatoes, potatoes, red peppers and eggplant. They do produce nicotine in far lower quantities though.
 
2013-01-24 01:54:40 AM

harrydorcas: The American FDA should listen to Dr. Patrick Basham, founding director of the Democracy Institute and an adjunct scholar with Cato's


...and that's where I stopped reading, because there's no way a member of the Cato Institute would not have a corporatist agenda. It'd be like trusting a scientist paid off by Exxon on climate change or peak oil.

/Hell, Exxon knows the type of person they want to influence is anti-science, so they just go with Lord Bugeye and Anthony Watts.
 
2013-01-24 01:57:16 AM

untaken_name: So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.


By his reasoning, if they're made from coffee beans, yes. If they're not, no.

I'm not taking sides either way, but there's certainly a logic to it.
 
2013-01-24 01:57:27 AM
I would prefer that they be regulated as drugs/medical devices, personally. I have used one for four years now. I was able to quit a 15-year long pack-a-day habit literally instantly, and dread the tobacco companies finding ways to make them so expensive and heavily taxed that they become less financially viable than cigarettes. At this point, I can spend $100 a year to support my desire for nicotine delivered in a manner that satisfies my oral fixation with no smoke, no second-hand smoke, no discoloration of my teeth, no nastiness to my breath or personal odor, and no side effects yet seen or known. I'm sure that the tobacco lobby is livid at the prospect of even 10% of smokers doing the same.  I'd rather get the solid tests and trials to make certain that it's safe and keep them available and practical.
 
2013-01-24 01:57:58 AM

lewismarktwo: gif


"nope" what?
 
2013-01-24 01:58:12 AM
I don't mind that the government is taking an interest in regulating an obviously addictive and potentially dangerous product. However, the government really needs to consider the harm reduction potential here.

Nicotine's not good for you, but it's by far not the worst thing in a cigarette. In the vast majority of cases, nicotine is not what kills a smoker. If we could get a significant percentage of people to quit smoking and start vaping, there presumably would be a decent reduction in cigarette mortality. Significant life and cost saving abound.

This is assuming that these products don't cause death some other way, which studying can determine.
 
2013-01-24 01:58:32 AM
I bet nicotine suppositories would work pretty well. Wouldn't do much to help your oral fixation though. Unless, of course, you like to...ummm...well...never mind.
 
2013-01-24 01:58:40 AM

JohnnyC: There are also a bunch of plants that produce nicotine as well. Some examples are tomatoes,


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-24 02:00:17 AM

JohnnyC: I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


My SO used them regularly for about a month, then sporadically for a month afterward.  He hasn't had a cigarette, e- or otherwise, for the past two months.  He had been smoking regularly for give or take four years before that, and sporadically/socially for two before that.

He also did his research before buying them instead of buying the disposable cheap ones behind the party store counter for what it's worth.   He also was pretty committed to quitting (although one fault he realized with e-cigs early on was that at the beginning he smoked them *more* than normal cigs because he could take a hit indoors while doing work on the computer, so he would constantly hit it)

.realize what I'm setting myself up for there with the "constantly hit it"
 
2013-01-24 02:00:31 AM

JohnnyC: untaken_name: So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.

You apparently don't know that over 100 different plants produce caffeine... for starters... tea.

There are also a bunch of plants that produce nicotine as well. Some examples are tomatoes, potatoes, red peppers and eggplant. They do produce nicotine in far lower quantities though.


They aren't inhaled.
 
2013-01-24 02:00:42 AM
Can't let you enjoy your drug without an appropriate tax.
Coffee drinkers, you're next, but you'll hardly notice the price increase, since so many of you pay Starbucks prices without even wincing.
 
2013-01-24 02:01:17 AM

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I have used one for four years now.


That's pretty impressive. Like I said above, not one person I know who tried those stuck with them. The biggest complaint I heard from them was that the battery life was crap and they would find themselves out of luck until they could find a place to recharge their e-cig.
 
2013-01-24 02:01:51 AM
Oh, I see you're trying to quit that thing we tax the shiat out of.

Guess we have to tax your therapy.

Because you are still a pariah. You still suck.

And there's money to be made.
 
2013-01-24 02:02:16 AM
What about those of us who don't use nicotine in our ecigs?

Having said that, great, I'd love to see some oversight as to what actually goes into the juice.  You kinda just have to take their word that the flavors, vg, and pg are all safe, and aren't tainted with nasty stuff.

Or course, I'd also like to see the FDA regulate vitamins for the same reason.  Too many consumer studies showing they often don't contain the amount or type of vitamins they state on the bottle.
 
2013-01-24 02:02:52 AM

RedPhoenix122: Good, considering we still don't know the long term effects.


Studies would be good. But if you had to guess -- and you do, since long-term studies take long-term time -- would you say they are more or less dangerous than their direct alternatives (i.e. traditional cigarettes)?

We don't know the long-term effects of lowering the drunk-driving BAC limit, but most people are fairly confident that lower numbers are better. It's worth checking, but to say we can't make a change until we have proof is insane.
 
2013-01-24 02:04:08 AM

gh0strid3r: They aren't inhaled.


You can't prove that. ;)

StreetlightInTheGhetto: He also did his research before buying them instead of buying the disposable cheap ones behind the party store counter for what it's worth.   He also was pretty committed to quitting (although one fault he realized with e-cigs early on was that at the beginning he smoked them *more* than normal cigs because he could take a hit indoors while doing work on the computer, so he would constantly hit it)

.realize what I'm setting myself up for there with the "constantly hit it"


That's cool. Glad to hear he kicked the habit. I hope he manages to stay smoke free. It's a tough thing to do.
 
2013-01-24 02:04:32 AM

Myria: I don't mind that the government is taking an interest in regulating an obviously addictive and potentially dangerous product. However, the government really needs to consider the harm reduction potential here.

Nicotine's not good for you, but it's by far not the worst thing in a cigarette. In the vast majority of cases, nicotine is not what kills a smoker. If we could get a significant percentage of people to quit smoking and start vaping, there presumably would be a decent reduction in cigarette mortality. Significant life and cost saving abound.

This is assuming that these products don't cause death some other way, which studying can determine.


Nicotine itself is implicated in heart disease, but there's no tar in e-cigs, and shouldn't be any polonium-210 either.
 
2013-01-24 02:05:24 AM

Myria: I don't mind that the government is taking an interest in regulating an obviously addictive and potentially dangerous product. However, the government really needs to consider the harm reduction potential here.

Nicotine's not good for you, but it's by far not the worst thing in a cigarette. In the vast majority of cases, nicotine is not what kills a smoker. If we could get a significant percentage of people to quit smoking and start vaping, there presumably would be a decent reduction in cigarette mortality. Significant life and cost saving abound.

This is assuming that these products don't cause death some other way, which studying can determine.


This is a balanced and well-reasoned post, which has no business being posted on Fark at 2 AM EST.

Personally, I started smoking at a late age as a self-treatment for my narcolepsy.  Nicotine in and of itself, without the crap that is added in with cigarettes, would have been much better.  But I started just before the dawning of easy access e-cigs.  And I agree that the products need to not cause death in some other way, and that some study/regulation would help in that... but as far as a cost/benefit analysis goes I'd prefer e-cigs to be at least as accessible as cigarettes.
 
2013-01-24 02:05:30 AM
I tried e-cigs. They sucked. I don't care what the manufacturers say, they do not adequately mirror smoking an actual cigarette.
 
2013-01-24 02:05:45 AM
Ive seen these on sale for at least a couple years but Ive never actually seen someone smoking one. Are there places where e-cigarettes are common?

I would imagine they stink less than dried tobacco leaf and paper at least, considering it`s a nicotine solution suspended in some kind of fluid.

/Get some Skoal mint, tastes good, you control nicotine intake easier, and you dont put packs of burning matter thriugh your lungs everyday
//Youll catch stronger nicotine buzzes with chew as well... all cancerous products suck though when you get down to it
 
2013-01-24 02:05:58 AM

The Goat Men Are Rampaging In The Fields: I would prefer that they be regulated as drugs/medical devices, personally.


That's a great plan. I support it 100% soon as we starting doing it for tobacco (and alcohol, and the 1000 other things we've grandfathered in to current rules). Until then it's ridiculous to say that electrically-powered cigarettes are more dangerous than fire-powered cigarettes.
 
2013-01-24 02:07:21 AM

JohnnyC: gh0strid3r: They aren't inhaled.

You can't prove that. ;)


Touche
 
2013-01-24 02:07:59 AM

JohnnyC: That's cool. Glad to hear he kicked the habit. I hope he manages to stay smoke free. It's a tough thing to do.


He's bummed one, while we had quite a few folks over for drinks-and-bonfire night.   He could only make it through half, so that's something.
 
2013-01-24 02:08:17 AM
this is a very good thing


the tobacco companies wanted them regulated as medical devices (effectively banning them)
 
2013-01-24 02:09:01 AM

Oznog: Nicotine itself is implicated in heart disease, but there's no tar in e-cigs, and shouldn't be any polonium-210 either.


I'll take people getting heart disease any day over people getting heart disease, lung cancer, emphysema / chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and strokes.

If we can't get people to quit outright, let's get them to switch to something less bad.
 
2013-01-24 02:09:03 AM

untaken_name: Bonzo_1116: So what is the source material for the nicotine in the e-cig mixes?

If it's synthesized Ok, maybe it's not a tobacco product...but if it's a tobacco extract process to get the nicotine, then it's still a tobacco product.

So things with caffeine are all coffee products? Interesting.


No, if it's a *tobacco* extract. You might be able to get nicotine from other solanaceae plants, and if so, then those would be tomato or eggplant extracts or whatever your starting material was.

I'd imagine tobacco is probably the most productive natural starting point, though.
 
2013-01-24 02:09:09 AM
I quit smoking real cigarettes about 3 years ago when I switched to e-cigs. I mostly weaned myself off of the e-cigs, but if I am working on a big stressful project, I'll pull the kit out of my desk and start using it.

The government needs to stay the hell out of this, the same way the FDA should generally keep their noses out of most everything else. Research what's going on? Absolutely. Monitor the market? Sure. Put the breaks on products that are clearly going out-of-bounds and harming people? Yes!

On the face of it, good old common sense tells us that e-cigarettes are infinitely less dangerous than smoking tobacco. No combustion. No funky stuff in the tobacco (pesticides, environmental pollutants picked up while growing, etc). Far less bi-products. Zero particulate matter. Given the historical rates of how successful people are at quitting smoking (which is to say, *very* poor) and the evidence I've seen of people being highly successful in transitioning to e-cigarettes, the downside to regulating (and eventually taxing) this market is extraordinarily clear; people will die.
 
2013-01-24 02:09:17 AM

JohnnyC: I decided today that I'm going to get the patch and try to quit smoking. I'm just tired of being addicted to them. Walgreens sells a "Walgreen" brand version for pretty cheap. Here's to quitting the habit.

Oh... E-Cigs are shiat... everyone I know who's ever tried using them did so for about two weeks before giving up on them. They're a novelty at best.


Good luck. Here's my "Quit Smoking" story

Nothing worked for me, and I tried them all. I finally just quit and spent 3 miserable days writhing on the couch going from sweating to shivering every 5 minutes. Day 2 was the worst. The shaking, anxiety, I even vomited twice. Day 3 was better but only because it was waning. After that the physical part was pretty much gone or tolerable. The one thing that kept me from starting again is knowing that I could never go through that again. If I ever start again I will smoke for the rest of my life, and that thought just sucks. In a couple of weeks it will be one year. Only now am I getting to where I hate being around smoke. It is one insidious addiction.
 
2013-01-24 02:10:03 AM
This decision actually makes for a lower standard of regulation than was originally proposed by the FDA. Regulating it as tobacco is a lesser standard than regulating as a drug. This is what the e-cig makers asked for. Follow the FD&C link if you like.

But keep on biatching anyway.
 
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