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(New York Daily News)   NYPD to deploy new, portable high-tech devices that can scan people walking down the street for concealed weapons   (nydailynews.com) divider line 334
    More: Scary, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly, N.Y.P.D., New York Civil Liberties Union, London Metropolitan Police, concealed weapons, Waldorf-Astoria, assault weapons, false positives  
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10098 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2013 at 3:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-23 06:33:04 PM

LasersHurt: OgreMagi: "the government can do whatever the hell it wants and rights be damned."

I wasn't aware I had advocated this. Because I didn't.

R.A.Danny: It seems you're under the impression that we work for our government and not the other way around.

How? The government is an extension of the people, when it's working correctly. The government works for us, we work for ourselves and our nation.


What do you mean when you say the government should be "agile"?
 
2013-01-23 06:35:37 PM

TheJoe03: What do you mean when you say the government should be "agile"?


That it should be subject to whims apparently
 
2013-01-23 06:35:54 PM

tgambitg: When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is not functioning correctly.


When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is decided by the court which rules on the issue eventually, not a rabble of message board users.
 
2013-01-23 06:36:46 PM

LasersHurt: Looking at me is different than looking into my house.


They aren't just looking at you, they might as well be forcing (not asking) you to strip down so they can see under your clothes. To continue your house argument, it's legal to look at your house all day long, but you can't (and the SCOTUS held this up) use even passive methods to bypass your walls and curtains. You have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your pants, and new technology doesn't change that.
 
2013-01-23 06:37:09 PM

LasersHurt: tgambitg: When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is not functioning correctly.

When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is decided by the court which rules on the issue eventually, not a rabble of message board users.


So our opinions are not welcome on Fark, and you're just running the place?
 
2013-01-23 06:38:19 PM

R.A.Danny: LasersHurt: tgambitg: When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is not functioning correctly.

When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is decided by the court which rules on the issue eventually, not a rabble of message board users.

So our opinions are not welcome on Fark, and you're just running the place?


Our opinions have nothing (thank god) to do with how the country is run. You can say whatever you want here, just as I can, but we're all just wanking.
 
2013-01-23 06:39:33 PM

LasersHurt: tgambitg: When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is not functioning correctly.

When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is decided by the court which rules on the issue eventually, not a rabble of message board users.


I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you were a Circuit or Supreme Court Justice.
 
2013-01-23 06:40:16 PM

redmid17: LasersHurt: redmid17: LasersHurt: redmid17: how do you think it would be if it could change the overarching government limitations pretty much whenever you want?

I don't know what you're implying, any time you get a simple majority you rewrite the world? Of course there should be limits on major changes, but those could easily require significant support to do. You can't just assume it would be shiatty because that supports your argument.

Okay then you're government is no longer agile and you are undermining your own point.

I think the case is more that you've set an arbitrary definition of agile right around "wherever makes my point correct."

You don't get how government is supposed to work do you?


I've run out of popcorn watching you two bicker. :-)

Well done, LasersHurt.  You've got him completely off the subject now.
 
2013-01-23 06:41:19 PM
1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
 
2013-01-23 06:43:14 PM

R.A.Danny: It almost seems that the founding fathers would rather see someone get away with a crime than make it easy to prosecute criminals.

Because that was exactly their mindset.


Careful. Some folks' brains would sprain if they tried to think about that.
 
2013-01-23 06:43:32 PM
assets.nydailynews.com


STUPID ON YOUR BRAIN!


Maybe we should start a petition to BAN Assault Tabloid Newspapers?


/No violation of the first amendment
//Consider the ignorance they cause
///Think of the children
 
2013-01-23 06:43:34 PM
You still think Ted Nugent is crazy?
 
2013-01-23 06:43:38 PM

LasersHurt: R.A.Danny: LasersHurt: tgambitg: When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is not functioning correctly.

When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is decided by the court which rules on the issue eventually, not a rabble of message board users.

So our opinions are not welcome on Fark, and you're just running the place?

Our opinions have nothing (thank god) to do with how the country is run. You can say whatever you want here, just as I can, but we're all just wanking.


Yes, but unlike you, we have volumes of decisions about this particular issue saying that the 4th is (supposedly) inviolate without probable cause or a warrant. No matter how you want to put it, anything that is not observable to the average naked eye is found only through searching.
 
2013-01-23 06:44:36 PM
Countdown to the first false positive that results in a "going for a ____" shooting. Should I even bother starting a clock?
 
2013-01-23 06:44:52 PM

netweavr: Sgt.Zim: Admitting that I haven't researched this yet, and I haven't read the rest of tFT yet...

I used to consider myself reasonably knowledgeable when it comes to physics, but this line from TFA: "The department just received a machine that reads terahertz - the natural energy emitted by people and inanimate objects - and allows [the pigs] to view concealed weapons from a distance" ... kind of threw me. I parse it one of two ways:
* "Use the Force, Luke"
* "Can you scan the gigahertz from my laptop?"

Or, maybe it was a piece from the Onion or the Health Ranger...

Clearly, this dipshiat of a "journalist" left something out...

I'm guessing they're trying to describe this.


Thanks, I think you're right...
 
2013-01-23 06:48:21 PM

LasersHurt: If this was used in places where carrying handguns is illegal, then fark the rights. You's a criminal. Everyone else walks by untouched.

I get that the idea of proactively looking for criminals is a violation of a strict and absolute interpretation of "search" rights. I don't fail to understand that. I just don't really care that much


So you are fine with police listening in on your conversation to see if you admit to doing something illegal?

Going through your mail to see if you are sending/receiving anything illegal?

You are pathetic.
 
2013-01-23 06:48:33 PM

Sgt.Zim: R.A.Danny: It almost seems that the founding fathers would rather see someone get away with a crime than make it easy to prosecute criminals.

Because that was exactly their mindset.

Careful. Some folks' brains would sprain if they tried to think about that.


Almost as if we were founded by a "long line of frontiersmen and outdoor types."
 
2013-01-23 06:52:37 PM

redmid17: I guess the scanner would probably show different readings, but it would still be illegal.


I was talking about the difference from potential harm from guns and weed.

I don't think it should or would stand up but I see them making that argument.


LasersHurt: but we're all just wanking


Difference is you are wanking for a society where your protections under the 4th are weakened or removed.
 
2013-01-23 06:54:10 PM

LasersHurt: R.A.Danny: LasersHurt: tgambitg: When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is not functioning correctly.

When the government violates its own rules of conduct, it is decided by the court which rules on the issue eventually, not a rabble of message board users.

So our opinions are not welcome on Fark, and you're just running the place?

Our opinions have nothing (thank god) to do with how the country is run. You can say whatever you want here, just as I can, but we're all just wanking.


No, numbnuts, that's one of the many points where you're wrong. Our opinions do matter. The politicians are supposed to work for us. If they're not doing the job, we fire them, and get different people in their place.

Granted, the "career politician" and numerous other elements have fracked with the system, but that's exactly how it's meant to work.
 
2013-01-23 06:59:58 PM
You liberals are getting exactly the police state you deserve.
 
2013-01-23 07:03:22 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: A new scan-inhibiting clothing line is launched in 3, 2, ....

So, will they stop and frisk anyone they can't get a clear scan on? Would that be probable cause?


i470.photobucket.com


 Anti-Drone Camouflage:  What to Wear in Total Surveillance
 
2013-01-23 07:03:28 PM
Gotta love hate these liberal utopian societies.
 
2013-01-23 07:05:24 PM

R.A.Danny: Sgt.Zim: R.A.Danny: It almost seems that the founding fathers would rather see someone get away with a crime than make it easy to prosecute criminals.

Because that was exactly their mindset.

Careful. Some folks' brains would sprain if they tried to think about that.

Almost as if we were founded by a "long line of frontiersmen and outdoor types."


Funny that some of the first to spout "better a guilty man go free than an innocent man be put to death" in a capital punishment debate will also usually be the first to support weakening the 4th, 5th, 10th and 14th amendments when it's about guns and "the children" (and the 2nd, of course)...
 
2013-01-23 07:06:39 PM

g4lt: Stone Meadow: g4lt: Stone Meadow: g4lt: I'm just waiting for the enterprising young idiot that can actually figure out how to make most of a gun with a 3D printer

You mean like this one?

[www.digitaltrends.com image 850x594]

FTFL: "CORRECTIONS: The AR-15 model was not entirely printed with a 3D printer, only a piece of the material was created with plastic (as shown in the second photo). Only the lower receiver was printed by HaveBlue," So no, not like that one

Of course it wasn't entirely printed in plastic. No one suggested it was. Plastic barrels (carbon fiber reinforced plastic) are available. Plastic (polymer) frames are available. Plastic magazines are printable. In other words, plastic guns can be made, and will be if legislation does tighten up considerably. Heck, the guy who built that gun first built a plastic .22LR through which he fired 200 rounds without failure to test it. Way back in 1987 the Patent Office issued a patent for a plastic/ceramic .22 pistol. Link

So quit quibbling over the reality of plastic guns. They're here and they will greatly undermine detection technologies like what's highlighted in this thread. Even if the barrel is steel it will just look like a pen in his pocket. Put the bullets or magazine in another pocket and the weapon is undetectable by this technology.

I think I was rather clear that I was awaiting the day when MOST of a gun could be printed. The Lower Receiver, while an important part, is still much less than the majority of the gun. I had nothing to say about the state of the art in plastic guns other than I wanted to see a Solidoodle for one. The lower receiver IS a step in the right direction, as you can mail-order all the parts save that one, so you can make a gun BECAUSE of your 3D printer, you just can't make one with it yet. Solidoodle or GTFO, in a nutshell.


To be fair, on an AR-platform weapon, the only tracked/restricted part is the lower receiver. The rest of the rifle can be mail ordered or purchased without background check or waiting period or anything else.
 
2013-01-23 07:11:39 PM
Every once in a while I read a thread that scares the shiat out of me with the stupidity and recklessness of the callow masses. This is definitely one of them. I think America's system of government is almost completely corrupt, but it's better than the complete anarchy espoused in this thread.

There is an incredible failure of imagination here.
 
2013-01-23 07:16:28 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [assets.nydailynews.com image 635x446]

Oh yeah, that's pretty stealthy.


Yeah, you know? Like those stupid "cell" phones. "Portable" my ass.

www.ericgarland.co
 
2013-01-23 07:50:39 PM
I wish they would break NYC off from the rest of NY already...it's embarrassing.
 
2013-01-23 07:50:51 PM
certainly better than stop and frisks but still kinda icky
 
2013-01-23 07:51:27 PM

take_flight: I wish they would break NYC off from the rest of NY already...it's embarrassing.


agreed

/from the other direction
 
2013-01-23 07:55:18 PM

skullkrusher: take_flight: I wish they would break NYC off from the rest of NY already...it's embarrassing.

agreed

/from the other direction


I recommend we combine NYC with San Francisco, break it off and float it out to the middle of the Pacific, then nuke it from orbit.
 
2013-01-23 08:00:42 PM

OgreMagi: I recommend we combine NYC with San Francisco, break it off and float it out to the middle of the Pacific, then nuke it from orbit.


Dude, where's the rest of the Bay supposed to go for their fun and debauchery?
 
2013-01-23 08:21:07 PM

LasersHurt: R.A.Danny: LasersHurt: How? The government is an extension of the people, when it's working correctly. The government works for us, we work for ourselves and our nation.

Not when they are gathering evidence in direct violation of the 4th Amendment.

That remains to be seen.


This type of claim is getting old and ridiculous. The bill of rights was written in plain English so everyone could understand it. We don't have to wait for a new court case every time someone finds a new technology that allows them to use a gadget from afar that yields the same information as a manual search.  If you need a warrant to perform the manual search, you need a warrant to use the gadget that gives you that same information.
 
2013-01-23 08:27:54 PM
So how long before protestors learn to start making and carrying EMP devices to protests?
 
2013-01-23 08:34:46 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [assets.nydailynews.com image 635x446]

Oh yeah, that's pretty stealthy.

Yeah, you know? Like those stupid "cell" phones. "Portable" my ass.

[www.ericgarland.co image 399x420]


Ha! We were driving down a lengthy state-route/county-route type road last week and I was having a conversation with my 16 year old daughter about how I had to walk that road once...10 miles...to "town" in 1993. She said, "Didn't you have a cell phone to call someone for a ride?" I started laughing, and then told her what they were like...she couldn't believe it. Gotta love that bulky old tech!
 
2013-01-23 08:50:05 PM
This is the type of thing to expect as we move towards stronger gun control measures. I am all for stopping bad guys, but would kind of like to at least have to consent to something like this scan. Hell, even the TSA let's me have a choice (scan, hands-on search, or don't fly).

There are 4 lights, by the way.
 
2013-01-23 09:14:40 PM

the.swartz: This is the type of thing to expect as we move towards stronger gun control measures. I am all for stopping bad guys, but would kind of like to at least have to consent to something like this scan. Hell, even the TSA let's me have a choice (scan, hands-on search, or don't fly).

There are 4 lights, by the way.


I'm pretty sure this is not legal, but NYPD just does pretty much want they want anymore. They've been in a lot of trouble recently for stop and frisk, racial profiling, etc. I live upstate and our small PD has thermal imaging devices, but I think it was decided they weren't allowed to use them.
 
2013-01-23 09:35:39 PM

whither_apophis: Only if the NYPD also stands around with drug sniffing dogs at various points on Wall St.

/yeah I didn't think so


The dogs couldn't smell blow that far away.
 
2013-01-23 09:37:05 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: LasersHurt: R.A.Danny: LasersHurt: How? The government is an extension of the people, when it's working correctly. The government works for us, we work for ourselves and our nation.

Not when they are gathering evidence in direct violation of the 4th Amendment.

That remains to be seen.

This type of claim is getting old and ridiculous. The bill of rights was written in plain English so everyone could understand it. We don't have to wait for a new court case every time someone finds a new technology that allows them to use a gadget from afar that yields the same information as a manual search.  If you need a warrant to perform the manual search, you need a warrant to use the gadget that gives you that same information.


How dare you inject common sense into this debate!
 
2013-01-23 09:40:03 PM
As a law-abiding citizen with nothing to hide, I'm not only ok with this, but I approve of these replies!
 
2013-01-23 09:42:09 PM
And New York continues its decent into a fascist hell hole... You could not pay me to live in that city or state at this point.
 
2013-01-23 09:43:53 PM
Reading the article I assumed the device would show the outline of a gun, or as the media would say, a "Glock," but not a goddamn banana with ears. FFS,
 
2013-01-23 09:46:23 PM

BronyMedic: AbbeySomeone: What are the health risks associated with this type of device? Has this been researched?

Pretty sure it's the same risk as a Directional Wireless antenna. That is to say none. It looks like a passive scanning system.

WalkingCarpet: Not only that but this is what they're going to base stopping and frisking someone on?

Your assumption is that they're going to use it to base stops and frisks on, and not have a heads up on whether someone they're stopping for another reason has a weapon.


If I was a cop I would use it for this reason, who wouldn't? Seriously, what police officer wouldn't just scan a crowd of people in the hood and take down the guys with the glowing bananas?

You're being naive, purposefully so, it's not helping.
 
2013-01-23 10:13:38 PM

jtown: [assets.nydailynews.com image 635x301]

I love how they use a black guy in the demo. Racist much?


Worldwide, as a percentage of population, black people are responsible for like 6X the amount of violent crime than non-blacks, and remember, the US stats count the Mexican gang bangers as "white," something many like to ignore. It's not melanin, it's culture, black culture is F'd up worldwide. The sooner we quit ignoring it the sooner we quit having to deal with a culture that doesn't respect life. Black people worldwide had to deal horrible mistreatment, killing, slavery. But to live as a slave today is harming everyone. Blacks will never know peace until they're ready to move forward, that's a fact.
 
2013-01-23 10:21:35 PM

OgreMagi: skullkrusher: take_flight: I wish they would break NYC off from the rest of NY already...it's embarrassing.

agreed

/from the other direction

I recommend we combine NYC with San Francisco, break it off and float it out to the middle of the Pacific, then nuke it from orbit.


you think your debt problem is bad now, flyovers?
 
2013-01-23 10:22:43 PM

Maul555: And New York continues its decent into a fascist hell hole... You could not pay me to live in that city or state at this point.


don't worry - it will only be deployed in areas where "gunplay" is common. Ya know what that means *wink wink*
 
2013-01-23 10:38:15 PM

skullkrusher: Maul555: And New York continues its decent into a fascist hell hole... You could not pay me to live in that city or state at this point.

don't worry - it will only be deployed in areas where "gunplay" is common. Ya know what that means *wink wink*


yeah... While the current product looks bulky, this could easily be installed into the sides of police SUV's and in specially placed into walls on the exterior of buildings with normal looking wall coverings, or even inside buildings for that matter...
 
2013-01-23 10:41:49 PM

skullkrusher: OgreMagi: skullkrusher: take_flight: I wish they would break NYC off from the rest of NY already...it's embarrassing.

agreed

/from the other direction

I recommend we combine NYC with San Francisco, break it off and float it out to the middle of the Pacific, then nuke it from orbit.

you think your debt problem is bad now, flyovers?


Spoken like someone from a city with a 110 billion dollar debt and counting.
 
2013-01-23 11:18:36 PM
I am assuming the Clean Halls Program is also called the Trespass Affadavit Program. If this is true, then its run by the DA's office and landlords sign up their buildings to participate. The agreement allows for the police to arrest people in the buildings who are not visiting people, or who live there, for criminal trespass. These are usually buildings that have a history with drug sales.

This is totally separate from the Stop, Question and Frisk program. The hardship is that there are thousands of signs up on buildings that can't come down over night, meaning that people will be locked up unjustly after the program has ended because the signs will still be up.
 
2013-01-23 11:32:23 PM
Of course the NYPD can do this.

See, what we have nowadays is what we call a LIVING CONSTITUTION.

It has emanations and penumbras.

One of its emanations, right there under one of the penumbras, is the power of the police to fark up your shiat, whenever the hell they feel like it.

But that's not a principle of freedom that the country was founded on, right?

Tough shiat -- the Constitution has evolved. Get it?

Fall in line, citizen.
 
2013-01-23 11:42:34 PM

Phinn: Of course the NYPD can do this.

See, what we have nowadays is what we call a LIVING CONSTITUTION.

It has emanations and penumbras.

One of its emanations, right there under one of the penumbras, is the power of the police to fark up your shiat, whenever the hell they feel like it.

But that's not a principle of freedom that the country was founded on, right?

Tough shiat -- the Constitution has evolved. Get it?

Fall in line, citizen.


BBBBBBBBBBBB
 
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