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(LiveLeak) Video There are bad professional tennis serves, and then there's this   (liveleak.com) divider line 78
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12202 clicks; posted to Video » on 23 Jan 2013 at 12:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-23 12:57:36 PM
if the red sox could have hit like that during the 2012 season ...
 
2013-01-23 01:04:39 PM
Hey, she still won.
 
2013-01-23 01:07:49 PM
All it takes for that to occur is to get a little extra on your toss and hit it with the frame of your racket. The height at which a serve is tossed and the possible variations due to wind allows for a lot of possible negative outcomes - and that's why you get two serves. The #1 tennis player in the world misses 35% of his first serves - albeit not as badly as that.

Anyway, if a tennis player has any mental toughness at all (and it's one of the sports where I know mental toughness is extremely important) they'd just shrug that off and go on to their next serve as if it didn't happen. If that had any effect on her game mentally, she's in trouble.
 
2013-01-23 01:07:50 PM
The fan must not have been paying attention to the match, and it irked her.
 
2013-01-23 01:15:27 PM
www.solarnavigator.net
Out? Whaddya mean out? How can you call that out? Are you blind?
 
2013-01-23 01:16:49 PM

Treygreen13: All it takes for that to occur is to get a little extra on your toss and hit it with the frame of your racket. The height at which a serve is tossed and the possible variations due to wind allows for a lot of possible negative outcomes - and that's why you get two serves. The #1 tennis player in the world misses 35% of his first serves - albeit not as badly as that.

Anyway, if a tennis player has any mental toughness at all (and it's one of the sports where I know mental toughness is extremely important) they'd just shrug that off and go on to their next serve as if it didn't happen. If that had any effect on her game mentally, she's in trouble.


at first i thought that maybe she broke a string. but, then watching the serve in slow motion, i think she might have lost it in the sun and misjudged it.

either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it
 
2013-01-23 01:29:25 PM
Interviewer - "What happened there"
Player - "I wanted to maintain communication with the fans."

Nice.
 
2013-01-23 01:39:18 PM

pute kisses like a man: either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it


It would be hard to imagine a pro not being able to muscle through framing a ball.

Anyway, look at how high she tosses it. I wish I was able to reliably toss that high. Of course, that's why I don't play now - I was never that good.
 
2013-01-23 01:47:22 PM

Treygreen13: pute kisses like a man: either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it

It would be hard to imagine a pro not being able to muscle through framing a ball.

Anyway, look at how high she tosses it. I wish I was able to reliably toss that high. Of course, that's why I don't play now - I was never that good.


Does tossing it high give you an advantage?

/Serious question
//Haven't played tennis since I was like 13
 
2013-01-23 01:59:40 PM
Doesn't matter how good you are, even the pros hit some REALLY atrocious shots.

Same with golf.
 
2013-01-23 02:01:21 PM

downstairs: Treygreen13: pute kisses like a man: either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it

It would be hard to imagine a pro not being able to muscle through framing a ball.

Anyway, look at how high she tosses it. I wish I was able to reliably toss that high. Of course, that's why I don't play now - I was never that good.

Does tossing it high give you an advantage?

/Serious question
//Haven't played tennis since I was like 13


It does, to a point. Skying it 3 stories would be a waste, but only tossing it a little ways up decreases the angle at which you can still hit the ball and drive it downward at great velocity.

So you throw it just a little higher than you could conceivably hit it, it peaks, and then you hit it as it starts to fall. Also, you want to toss it slightly forward of your spot on the line to further decrease the distance to the net and allow for additional forward momentum of the racket.
goldyuk.files.wordpress.com
Here's Federer's toss.

The higher the contact point, the
 
2013-01-23 02:09:15 PM
I want you to throw the next one at the mascot.

/not obscure at all, but first thing I thought of...
 
2013-01-23 02:09:44 PM
Not sure what happened to the rest of my post.

"The higher the contact point, the more downward velocity is possible without striking the net."

Anyway, the serve has several moving parts and minor variances in any of those factors can seriously affect the serve, sort of like a golf swing. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that a tossed ball doesn't *have* to be hit (a player is free to let it drop and re-toss) and the fact that a player gets two serves.

The fastest serve recorded by a human is 163mph. How fast is that? Unless you were standing there with your racket out right where the ball was going, you'd never hit it. Hell, it happened all the time in High School and College when I played and nobody was serving even remotely as fast as that. Aces are one thing but there are times when you just watch a ball and sort of chuckle. You had no shot. Sometimes you can't even tell if it's in or out. You just save your energy and walk to the other side. If you did by some miracle get a racket on it and put it back over, odds are good that whoever served it is just standing there waiting to crush it back at you. Hence why "breaks" are such a big deal.
 
2013-01-23 02:21:34 PM

berniex: Doesn't matter how good you are, even the pros hit some REALLY atrocious shots.

Same with golf.


csb...Years ago, I was watching the Sony Open live in Honolulu. On a par 4, Craig Stadler hit his tee shot ridiculously fat. His divot looked like it was 7 or 8 inches behind the ball, and his ball only traveled about 100 yards down the fairway. He turned to the gallery, smiled, shrugged his shoulders and said, "It looks like it's going to be one of those days." I was kind of shocked at how casual he was about such a horrible shot, but then again, he was far enough down the leader board that he probably wouldn't make the cut, so it didn't make that much of a difference at that point. Also, he was paid to play golf in Hawaii when it was sub-freezing in many parts of the mainland, so that may have helped his mood somewhat.
 
2013-01-23 02:27:00 PM
She serves like I golf.
 
2013-01-23 02:30:59 PM

immrlizard: She serves like I golf.


In a miniskirt?
 
2013-01-23 02:37:43 PM

pute kisses like a man: but, then watching the serve in slow motion, i think she might have lost it in the sun and misjudged it.


This was my guess, she was staring right into the sun basically.
 
2013-01-23 02:40:10 PM
hot female tennis players thread
 
2013-01-23 02:43:11 PM

ATOMWATTS: hot female tennis players thread


That's not what I see.
 
2013-01-23 02:43:33 PM
That's not that uncommon, even for the pros.  A shank can happen to anyone.  The serve is all about timing, and it's a critical set of movements that have to all line up.  It's kind of a miracle that human beings can serve at all.

It is literally the most complex couple of seconds of movements that I've ever learned.  Throw in the different kinds of serves, kick, flat, slice, second serve, and there is even more room for error.

Just another reason that our brains and bodies are pretty amazing things.
 
2013-01-23 02:45:02 PM
I like to think she saw an annoying fan and just aimed it at him.
 
2013-01-23 02:54:42 PM

immrlizard: She serves like I golf.


I see you are familiar with the game of flog
 
2013-01-23 03:08:20 PM

meehaw: That's not that uncommon, even for the pros.  A shank can happen to anyone.  The serve is all about timing, and it's a critical set of movements that have to all line up.  It's kind of a miracle that human beings can serve at all.

It is literally the most complex couple of seconds of movements that I've ever learned.  Throw in the different kinds of serves, kick, flat, slice, second serve, and there is even more room for error.

Just another reason that our brains and bodies are pretty amazing things.


I don't know if the kick serve just hadn't been popularized yet but I'd never even heard of one when I was playing. It was a ton of fun learning all the non-traditional serves. Then in a match punish someone with flat serves all day and then just slice the absolute bejeesus out of a ball and watch your opponent flail at it. I guess that's what being a pitcher feels like.
 
2013-01-23 03:14:55 PM
Also, if anyone can get away with a shot like that, Mansour Bahrami can.

Mansour Bahrami the clown prince of tennis
 
2013-01-23 03:15:48 PM

SlothB77: if the red sox could have hit like that during the 2012 season ...

.......they still would have been beaten by the Yankees

snarkity snark snark
 
2013-01-23 03:22:02 PM
If tennis doesn't work out for this Chinese yellow ball whacker she can become a eunuch maker.
 
2013-01-23 03:28:16 PM
As a tournament tennis player in my teens and twenties, I can attest that mis-hits like this are fairly common.
Small variances in toss direction, height, angle, wind and/or sun location can result in a frame mis-hit. In addition, when you factor in that she is hitting with topspin to pull the ball down into the service box, the margin of error is quite small.
As someone noted above, it's actually amazing that there are not more mis-hits like this.
 
2013-01-23 03:45:04 PM
Treygreen13

I don't know if the kick serve just hadn't been popularized yet but I'd never even heard of one when I was playing. It was a ton of fun learning all the non-traditional serves. Then in a match punish someone with flat serves all day and then just slice the absolute bejeesus out of a ball and watch your opponent flail at it. I guess that's what being a pitcher feels like.

Kick serves have been around a while...easily since the Borg days, but I think Stan Smith used one in the late sixties/early seventies.  I played competitively in USTA events in the eighties, and for my university in the Nineties, and I learned my kick serve around 1986.  It behaves kind of like a reverse-slice.  It's primarily used in the Ad court out wide, because you can hit the sideline up four or five feet.  It's just so fun.  Think of it like extreme-to-upside-down topspin.  It's personally my favorite serve, and it's more effective for me, as a shorter player, than my flat or slice serves that have very little margin for error.  You can also use it down the middle in the Ad court to jam a tall player.  If done effectively, it "kicks" above the player's head, making a backhand return very hard.  Boris Becker had one of the most awesome kick serves in Tennis.  So did Edberg.  Even if you know it's coming it's incredibly hard to do much with, and unlike a slice serve, it feels very heavy on the returner's racket...it just has more power than a slice, which, to follow your pitcher analogy, is more like a change-up.  Most players can't do anything but chip it back.  Even my second serve is a variation on my kick serve, as the extreme topspin gives me a ton of room for error.

Sorry to tennis-nerd out there for a second.  I'll go back to being snarky and disingenuous now.
 
2013-01-23 03:58:19 PM
She Bababooied it!
 
2013-01-23 03:58:37 PM

Treygreen13: meehaw: That's not that uncommon, even for the pros.  A shank can happen to anyone.  The serve is all about timing, and it's a critical set of movements that have to all line up.  It's kind of a miracle that human beings can serve at all.

It is literally the most complex couple of seconds of movements that I've ever learned.  Throw in the different kinds of serves, kick, flat, slice, second serve, and there is even more room for error.

Just another reason that our brains and bodies are pretty amazing things.

I don't know if the kick serve just hadn't been popularized yet but I'd never even heard of one when I was playing. It was a ton of fun learning all the non-traditional serves. Then in a match punish someone with flat serves all day and then just slice the absolute bejeesus out of a ball and watch your opponent flail at it. I guess that's what being a pitcher feels like.


You played in college but never heard of a kick serve?

Riiight.
 
2013-01-23 04:03:12 PM

meehaw: Treygreen13

I don't know if the kick serve just hadn't been popularized yet but I'd never even heard of one when I was playing. It was a ton of fun learning all the non-traditional serves. Then in a match punish someone with flat serves all day and then just slice the absolute bejeesus out of a ball and watch your opponent flail at it. I guess that's what being a pitcher feels like.

Kick serves have been around a while...easily since the Borg days, but I think Stan Smith used one in the late sixties/early seventies.  I played competitively in USTA events in the eighties, and for my university in the Nineties, and I learned my kick serve around 1986.  It behaves kind of like a reverse-slice.  It's primarily used in the Ad court out wide, because you can hit the sideline up four or five feet.  It's just so fun.  Think of it like extreme-to-upside-down topspin.  It's personally my favorite serve, and it's more effective for me, as a shorter player, than my flat or slice serves that have very little margin for error.  You can also use it down the middle in the Ad court to jam a tall player.  If done effectively, it "kicks" above the player's head, making a backhand return very hard.  Boris Becker had one of the most awesome kick serves in Tennis.  So did Edberg.  Even if you know it's coming it's incredibly hard to do much with, and unlike a slice serve, it feels very heavy on the returner's racket...it just has more power than a slice, which, to follow your pitcher analogy, is more like a change-up.  Most players can't do anything but chip it back.  Even my second serve is a variation on my kick serve, as the extreme topspin gives me a ton of room for error.

Sorry to tennis-nerd out there for a second.  I'll go back to being snarky and disingenuous now.


I certainly don't mind someone tennis-nerding out. Do you know how rare Tennis threads are here?

Anyway, I only had 3 coaches in my short tennis career, and the first two were so focused on fundementals that I imagine they were afraid to introduce the kick-serve to high school kids. My coach in early college was a cool guy and showed me a lot of exotic stuff, but I guess we just never got around to it.
 
2013-01-23 04:22:31 PM

Treygreen13: pute kisses like a man: either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it

It would be hard to imagine a pro not being able to muscle through framing a ball.

Anyway, look at how high she tosses it. I wish I was able to reliably toss that high. Of course, that's why I don't play now - I was never that good.


There's really no reason to toss the ball that high. The optimal toss height is for the ball to hit its apogee at the preferred point of contact because you're basically hitting a stationary target at that point and it's a lot easier to control. If you're trying to hit a ball that was tossed so high that it's accelerating toward the ground, as she was, the margin for error is incredibly small. Guys like Federer who are superhuman can get away with it but most players can't. Yes, you want it to be as high as possible upon contact but tossing it higher than that does absolutely nothing for you.
 
2013-01-23 04:26:05 PM

ricewater_stool: Treygreen13: pute kisses like a man: either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it

It would be hard to imagine a pro not being able to muscle through framing a ball.

Anyway, look at how high she tosses it. I wish I was able to reliably toss that high. Of course, that's why I don't play now - I was never that good.

There's really no reason to toss the ball that high. The optimal toss height is for the ball to hit its apogee at the preferred point of contact because you're basically hitting a stationary target at that point and it's a lot easier to control. If you're trying to hit a ball that was tossed so high that it's accelerating toward the ground, as she was, the margin for error is incredibly small. Guys like Federer who are superhuman can get away with it but most players can't. Yes, you want it to be as high as possible upon contact but tossing it higher than that does absolutely nothing for you.


Which is probably why she framed the crap out of it. But considering the height she got on it with basically no lateral movement - it's impressive.
 
2013-01-23 04:28:10 PM
I love that the audience still applauded.  Must've taken out some obnoxious asshole in the stands
 
2013-01-23 04:33:30 PM

Treygreen13: ricewater_stool: Treygreen13: pute kisses like a man: either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it

It would be hard to imagine a pro not being able to muscle through framing a ball.

Anyway, look at how high she tosses it. I wish I was able to reliably toss that high. Of course, that's why I don't play now - I was never that good.

There's really no reason to toss the ball that high. The optimal toss height is for the ball to hit its apogee at the preferred point of contact because you're basically hitting a stationary target at that point and it's a lot easier to control. If you're trying to hit a ball that was tossed so high that it's accelerating toward the ground, as she was, the margin for error is incredibly small. Guys like Federer who are superhuman can get away with it but most players can't. Yes, you want it to be as high as possible upon contact but tossing it higher than that does absolutely nothing for you.

Which is probably why she framed the crap out of it. But considering the height she got on it with basically no lateral movement - it's impressive.


Agreed. Back in my tennis heyday (in the mid 80s) I had a first serve of around 110 mph. But the consistency of my toss was my biggest problem. If I had tossed it 15 feet in the air I'd have double faulted every other point.
 
2013-01-23 04:37:25 PM

ricewater_stool: Treygreen13: ricewater_stool: Treygreen13: pute kisses like a man: either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it

It would be hard to imagine a pro not being able to muscle through framing a ball.

Anyway, look at how high she tosses it. I wish I was able to reliably toss that high. Of course, that's why I don't play now - I was never that good.

There's really no reason to toss the ball that high. The optimal toss height is for the ball to hit its apogee at the preferred point of contact because you're basically hitting a stationary target at that point and it's a lot easier to control. If you're trying to hit a ball that was tossed so high that it's accelerating toward the ground, as she was, the margin for error is incredibly small. Guys like Federer who are superhuman can get away with it but most players can't. Yes, you want it to be as high as possible upon contact but tossing it higher than that does absolutely nothing for you.

Which is probably why she framed the crap out of it. But considering the height she got on it with basically no lateral movement - it's impressive.

Agreed. Back in my tennis heyday (in the mid 80s) I had a first serve of around 110 mph. But the consistency of my toss was my biggest problem. If I had tossed it 15 feet in the air I'd have double faulted every other point.


I also think a lot of the reason it looks so high is that 1) it is thrown too high and 2) she's coiling at the top of the toss, so it looks like it's even higher.
 
2013-01-23 05:13:19 PM
Happens all the time. Try serving with some wind, and mix with your toss disappearing into the sun. Good times.

Brad Gilbert would like to have a word with subby.
 
2013-01-23 05:16:29 PM

ricewater_stool: Treygreen13: ricewater_stool: Treygreen13: pute kisses like a man: either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it

It would be hard to imagine a pro not being able to muscle through framing a ball.

Anyway, look at how high she tosses it. I wish I was able to reliably toss that high. Of course, that's why I don't play now - I was never that good.

There's really no reason to toss the ball that high. The optimal toss height is for the ball to hit its apogee at the preferred point of contact because you're basically hitting a stationary target at that point and it's a lot easier to control. If you're trying to hit a ball that was tossed so high that it's accelerating toward the ground, as she was, the margin for error is incredibly small. Guys like Federer who are superhuman can get away with it but most players can't. Yes, you want it to be as high as possible upon contact but tossing it higher than that does absolutely nothing for you.

Which is probably why she framed the crap out of it. But considering the height she got on it with basically no lateral movement - it's impressive.

Agreed. Back in my tennis heyday (in the mid 80s) I had a first serve of around 110 mph. But the consistency of my toss was my biggest problem. If I had tossed it 15 feet in the air I'd have double faulted every other point.


We would place our racket at our feet, handle at your foot, and practice out toss so the ball would consistently land on the head. Rince, repeat about 10,000 times and you might start getting a consistent toss. Hell, I still have trouble.
 
2013-01-23 05:30:10 PM
I'd put my Moo Goo in her Gy pan, if you know what i mean, and i think you do.

/dont lie, you would too.
 
2013-01-23 05:33:29 PM

meehaw: Treygreen13

I don't know if the kick serve just hadn't been popularized yet but I'd never even heard of one when I was playing. It was a ton of fun learning all the non-traditional serves. Then in a match punish someone with flat serves all day and then just slice the absolute bejeesus out of a ball and watch your opponent flail at it. I guess that's what being a pitcher feels like.

Kick serves have been around a while...easily since the Borg days, but I think Stan Smith used one in the late sixties/early seventies.  I played competitively in USTA events in the eighties, and for my university in the Nineties, and I learned my kick serve around 1986.  It behaves kind of like a reverse-slice.  It's primarily used in the Ad court out wide, because you can hit the sideline up four or five feet.  It's just so fun.  Think of it like extreme-to-upside-down topspin.  It's personally my favorite serve, and it's more effective for me, as a shorter player, than my flat or slice serves that have very little margin for error.  You can also use it down the middle in the Ad court to jam a tall player.  If done effectively, it "kicks" above the player's head, making a backhand return very hard.  Boris Becker had one of the most awesome kick serves in Tennis.  So did Edberg.  Even if you know it's coming it's incredibly hard to do much with, and unlike a slice serve, it feels very heavy on the returner's racket...it just has more power than a slice, which, to follow your pitcher analogy, is more like a change-up.  Most players can't do anything but chip it back.  Even my second serve is a variation on my kick serve, as the extreme topspin gives me a ton of room for error.

Sorry to tennis-nerd out there for a second.  I'll go back to being snarky and disingenuous now.


I was hitting one as early as 1976, and I learned it from a guy who was nationally ranked as an amateur in the late 40s - early 50s. They've been around a long time. Stan Ith hit a good one, so did Ilie Nastase.
 
2013-01-23 05:35:34 PM
Home Run!
 
2013-01-23 05:37:47 PM
Eh, it happens. I've done this a couple of times during a match too. When you're trying to do a kick serve and you misjudge the toss, you end up shanking it along the frame and it goes flying into outer space.
 
2013-01-23 05:50:31 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: I'd put my Moo Goo in her Gy pan, if you know what i mean, and i think you do.

/dont lie, you would too.


I know what you mean, I had the lasagna

pgcooper1939.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-23 06:09:35 PM

downstairs: Does tossing it high give you an advantage?

/Serious question
//Haven't played tennis since I was like 13


A good tennis serve begins with the server tossing the ball up with their off hand. This toss is rehearsed and practiced over and over with the aim of making every toss identical and perfect.
 
2013-01-23 06:39:04 PM

makjr33: meehaw: Treygreen13

I don't know if the kick serve just hadn't been popularized yet but I'd never even heard of one when I was playing. It was a ton of fun learning all the non-traditional serves. Then in a match punish someone with flat serves all day and then just slice the absolute bejeesus out of a ball and watch your opponent flail at it. I guess that's what being a pitcher feels like.

Kick serves have been around a while...easily since the Borg days, but I think Stan Smith used one in the late sixties/early seventies.  I played competitively in USTA events in the eighties, and for my university in the Nineties, and I learned my kick serve around 1986.  It behaves kind of like a reverse-slice.  It's primarily used in the Ad court out wide, because you can hit the sideline up four or five feet.  It's just so fun.  Think of it like extreme-to-upside-down topspin.  It's personally my favorite serve, and it's more effective for me, as a shorter player, than my flat or slice serves that have very little margin for error.  You can also use it down the middle in the Ad court to jam a tall player.  If done effectively, it "kicks" above the player's head, making a backhand return very hard.  Boris Becker had one of the most awesome kick serves in Tennis.  So did Edberg.  Even if you know it's coming it's incredibly hard to do much with, and unlike a slice serve, it feels very heavy on the returner's racket...it just has more power than a slice, which, to follow your pitcher analogy, is more like a change-up.  Most players can't do anything but chip it back.  Even my second serve is a variation on my kick serve, as the extreme topspin gives me a ton of room for error.

Sorry to tennis-nerd out there for a second.  I'll go back to being snarky and disingenuous now.

I was hitting one as early as 1976, and I learned it from a guy who was nationally ranked as an amateur in the late 40s - early 50s. They've been around a long time. Stan Ith hit a good one, so did Ilie Nast ...



Damn.  Forgot about Nastase.  How could I forget Nastase?
 
2013-01-23 06:42:32 PM
amazonian chinawomen!!

RUN!!!
 
2013-01-23 06:47:22 PM

Treygreen13: downstairs: Treygreen13: pute kisses like a man: either way, someone else said she won, so she must have had the toughness to get through it

It would be hard to imagine a pro not being able to muscle through framing a ball.

Anyway, look at how high she tosses it. I wish I was able to reliably toss that high. Of course, that's why I don't play now - I was never that good.

Does tossing it high give you an advantage?

/Serious question
//Haven't played tennis since I was like 13

It does, to a point. Skying it 3 stories would be a waste, but only tossing it a little ways up decreases the angle at which you can still hit the ball and drive it downward at great velocity.

So you throw it just a little higher than you could conceivably hit it, it peaks, and then you hit it as it starts to fall. Also, you want to toss it slightly forward of your spot on the line to further decrease the distance to the net and allow for additional forward momentum of the racket.
[goldyuk.files.wordpress.com image 734x1500]
Here's Federer's toss.

The higher the contact point, the

(pretend I quoted the rest of the response in the next post as well)

You are half right. But the ball is not in front of him, it is to his left (technically "up court") as he is standing perpendicular to the baseline. The toss is most likely behind him (into the picture) as almost all professional serves hit with topspin so they can hit the ball harder.

To Elaborate: there are 4 major serve categories: flat, topspin, kick/slice, and courtesy. Courtesy is a serve that is hit either underhand, of the bounce, or with no body, just s little toss and a flick of the wrist. These are NEVER seen in the pros (except in the early '90s, when Boris Becker won a match using one to fool his opponent. They now have to be "declared" before using them or a fould will be called by the umpire.

Flat serve is the most common used in developmental and occasionally used by the pros. It is the one that gets the most speed, but the angles leave very little room for accuracy and getting it in (unless the server is freakishly tall). For a righthander, standing with his left foot on the base line using a forehand grip, the ball is tossed up with the left hand to the height of contact (or slightly higher and hit just after it starts its decent) about 1 foot in front of the server (towards deuce side) and as far upcourt as the server can reliably consistently hit without foot-faulting. It is generally struck with a slight downward angle and, when hit properly, will be maximum speed and can only land in the very back of the service box.

Topspin serve: most common. Same stance as the flat serve, but the server uses a back-hand grip on the racket, the ball is tossed even with the baseline (not upcourt) and 8-12 inches behind him (towards ad-side). The ball is struck at its highest point by arching the back and bending the knees while bring the racket up to the ball while following through towards the service box during and after contact. This puts a lot of top spin on the ball and pulls it down towards the box, while making it "shoot" forward after hitting the ground. Depending on the surface and the spin, this can cause it to kick higher or lower than a flat serve. The downward pull of the top spin (think of a sinker in baseball) means that server can hit with more force and "loop" the ball in with less fear of serving long. It is the most common and consistent serve and is generally used (albeit slower) for all second serves by pros and the majority of first serves. The looping and downward pull means you can use more of the service box (such as the side lines of the service box to go wide), without faulting into the net.

Slice/kick serve. forehand grip, toss the ball even with the end line and 8-10" in front of you (toward deuce court for righties). Hit the ball at its highest point bringing the racket across the back of the ball from ad to deuce side (until contact is made) following through towards the service box. This imparts a sideways spin (up to 45 degrees off horizontal axis in either up or down directions, depending on the strike point and follow through)) that will cause the ball to "kick" to the right of its trajectory after bouncing. The spin tends to cause the ball to hover and travel a bit long (as opposed to the topspin serve). This serve is used most often by amateurs and beginners as it's the most natural feeling and it keeps the ball in view at all times without them having to bend their knees, back, waist, etc... It's also the easiest to return for advanced players as it has relatively low speeds and is only useful as a change-up.

Good players can tell you the type of serve that is coming just by watching where the toss is. Serving was my strength when I played (I was 6'4", 230 pounds in high school and played hockey and a bit of football, so I had muscle to go with it). Learning to serve properly basically gave me half of the games before the match even started and could demoralize better players after just a few exchanges of serves.
 
2013-01-23 07:38:19 PM
Yes but she looked hot in her little white.... What were we taking about?
 
2013-01-23 07:57:15 PM
[Bob Uecker voice]
Juuuuust a bit outside.
[/Bob Uecker voice]
 
2013-01-23 08:01:06 PM
After watching a few related tennis videos I found this absolute gem of bad captioning.

Link

Give it a few seconds and then tell me who exactly was the first to go out?
 
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