If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Chron)   Those geeks at Google tuk yer jerb   (chron.com) divider line 50
    More: Scary, Google, developed country, jobless recovery, Great Recession, middle class, automaticity  
•       •       •

3239 clicks; posted to Business » on 23 Jan 2013 at 11:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-01-23 09:58:48 AM
Well I guess you shouldn't have pushed their heads into toilets in middle school, jerk.
 
2013-01-23 11:38:34 AM
I've been saying this for years.

Are advances in technology really such good things if they hurt our economy in the long run by decreasing the number of jobs available?
 
2013-01-23 11:40:43 AM

doczoidberg: I've been saying this for years.

Are advances in technology really such good things if they hurt our economy in the long run by decreasing the number of jobs available?


only if you get stuck on the idea that everyone has to work in an automated society.
 
2013-01-23 11:41:42 AM

doczoidberg: Are advances in technology really such good things if they hurt our economy in the long run by decreasing the number of jobs available?


I'm guessing you didn't post this by carving rocks.
 
2013-01-23 11:42:54 AM
Technology is a good industry to be in. Computing of any kind - data center, server techs, programmers, etc. It's been a great industry for the past 20 years (mostly) and it continues to be a good place to have a career if someone is goal-oriented and focused. Even C players can gain employment in the technology field. If you're dedicated and make for a good employee you're pretty much guaranteed a job. College kids? We'll employ you.. 50 and need a new career? Go to a vocational school and we'll hire you. My company has 1500 jobs open right now in the US starting at around $40k going up to $300k.

What this article doesn't really point out is the -reliance- on IT that has come about in the past 5 years. IT used to be a nice to have and if Email went down for a couple hours no big deal. Thats not the case anymore. If the DMV data center goes down it shuts down the cops ability to find out if someone they pulled over is wanted. They 100% rely on tech and that data center can never go down. If a hospital losses access to it's medical records someone can die, literally. Imagine someone getting a dose of Morphine then the system goes down and another nurse comes in to give the patience a dose of Morphine and doesn't know it was just given to the patient? Bad stuff. Schools 100% rely on IT and deptartments of education at the county level are spending millions on compute and data.

With that said.. Trickle down economics can take some of the blame for this. The trickle hits China and other nations. We'll see more jobs coming back here when manufacturing can be done at an equal shared cost.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-01-23 11:44:10 AM
Actually, they gave me one.
 
2013-01-23 11:48:35 AM
As an engineer who specializes in manufacturing process automation, I'm really getting a kick out of these replies....
 
2013-01-23 11:51:10 AM

xynix: Technology is a good industry to be in. Computing of any kind - data center, server techs, programmers, etc. It's been a great industry for the past 20 years (mostly) and it continues to be a good place to have a career if someone is goal-oriented and focused. Even C players can gain employment in the technology field. If you're dedicated and make for a good employee you're pretty much guaranteed a job. College kids? We'll employ you.. 50 and need a new career? Go to a vocational school and we'll hire you. My company has 1500 jobs open right now in the US starting at around $40k going up to $300k.

What this article doesn't really point out is the -reliance- on IT that has come about in the past 5 years. IT used to be a nice to have and if Email went down for a couple hours no big deal. Thats not the case anymore. If the DMV data center goes down it shuts down the cops ability to find out if someone they pulled over is wanted. They 100% rely on tech and that data center can never go down. If a hospital losses access to it's medical records someone can die, literally. Imagine someone getting a dose of Morphine then the system goes down and another nurse comes in to give the patience a dose of Morphine and doesn't know it was just given to the patient? Bad stuff. Schools 100% rely on IT and deptartments of education at the county level are spending millions on compute and data.

With that said.. Trickle down economics can take some of the blame for this. The trickle hits China and other nations. We'll see more jobs coming back here when manufacturing can be done at an equal shared cost.


what company/city?
 
2013-01-23 11:56:15 AM
"I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study
mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and
philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture,
navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children
a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary,
tapestry and porcelain."

John Adams

one of my favorite quotes. Eventually as more of the mundane tasks of existence are automated, it should free us up to explore the beauty of life and move to a more artisan society. But as someone mentioned up-thread, we will need to adopt some other form of "working to live" structure. Capitalism will eventually become a hindrance. A resource based economy might be what we need, but that starts to reek of socialism.
 
2013-01-23 12:03:55 PM

xynix: Technology is a good industry to be in. Computing of any kind - data center, server techs, programmers, etc. It's been a great industry for the past 20 years (mostly) and it continues to be a good place to have a career if someone is goal-oriented and focused. Even C players can gain employment in the technology field. If you're dedicated and make for a good employee you're pretty much guaranteed a job. College kids? We'll employ you.. 50 and need a new career? Go to a vocational school and we'll hire you. My company has 1500 jobs open right now in the US starting at around $40k going up to $300k.

What this article doesn't really point out is the -reliance- on IT that has come about in the past 5 years. IT used to be a nice to have and if Email went down for a couple hours no big deal. Thats not the case anymore. If the DMV data center goes down it shuts down the cops ability to find out if someone they pulled over is wanted. They 100% rely on tech and that data center can never go down. If a hospital losses access to it's medical records someone can die, literally. Imagine someone getting a dose of Morphine then the system goes down and another nurse comes in to give the patience a dose of Morphine and doesn't know it was just given to the patient? Bad stuff. Schools 100% rely on IT and deptartments of education at the county level are spending millions on compute and data.

With that said.. Trickle down economics can take some of the blame for this. The trickle hits China and other nations. We'll see more jobs coming back here when manufacturing can be done at an equal shared cost.


It's certainly more efficient in the cities that operate that way, but there are still plenty of places that do not have the tech to operate in the way you've laid out. There are tons of small towns that simply cannot afford the price of investment and efficiency isn't a problem for them. That's not to say there aren't some who have lots of cash flow who have invested. We live in some pretty interesting times.
 
2013-01-23 01:05:20 PM

xynix: Go to a vocational school and we'll hire you. My company has 1500 jobs open right now in the US starting at around $40k going up to $300k.


What sort of vocational curriculum would you recommend?
IT in general, yes, but what subspecialties in particular?
 
2013-01-23 01:34:22 PM

Hyjamon: Capitalism will eventually become a hindrance. A resource based economy might be what we need, but that starts to reek of socialism.


2 day work week.
 
2013-01-23 01:39:18 PM

doczoidberg: I've been saying this for years.

Are advances in technology really such good things if they hurt our economy in the long run by decreasing the number of jobs available?


Does your newsletter have the time for the next mill burning excursion Mr Ludd?
 
2013-01-23 01:46:52 PM

doczoidberg: Are advances in technology really such good things if they hurt our economy in the long run by decreasing the number of jobs available?


In the past job losses due to productivity have actually led to more jobs, different jobs but more of them. For example, automation of farm work that began in the 40's has resulted in less than 2% of people are employed on farms in the U.S. it used to be almost 40%. At the time everyone asked what are all these people going to do? Never dreaming that one day people would be employed as professional closet organizers, pet psychiatrists, and video game testers.


Will it happen this time? I hope so.
 
2013-01-23 01:55:09 PM

SuperT: what company/city?


Any city.. There are datacenters everywhere from SF on through Idaho and the Dakotas all the way through to Florida. I'm with a tech company so our employees generally cover an "area" or they're in our headquarters doing programming and engineering. For instance someone could live in Jackson, MS or Generic Town, Arizona and they would cover the state and have to drive to places. The point being is that you don't have to be in a major city. One of my co-workers lives on a 100 acre "ranch" right on the border with AL and GA so basically the middle of nowhere. My engineering manager lives on 200 acres in south TN about 50 miles from anything and he's getting around $220k a year living in a place where the cost of living is as low as it gets. The technology has enabled us to live anywhere and still get a good job and salary. I live on Lake Lanier, GA - pretty far away from anything big city.

HotIgneous Intruder: What sort of vocational curriculum would you recommend?
IT in general, yes, but what subspecialties in particular?


Virtualization is hot and is going to remain hot for at least the next 5+ years. VMWare, Hyper-V, and the software that supports them such as Zerto and other replication products. Speaking of which.. Replication is huge, data storage is basically recession proof and data is growing massively, companies will hold off on buying a server if they don't have budget for it. How do you hold off on buying storage when you have 0 bytes left? You don't.. You buy more. SAN engineers of all flavors will be in high demand for ever. That includes NAS engineers and iSCSI experts. When I went to Monster.com just now and typed in "SAN Administrator" I got this in return:  1,000+ San Administrator jobs matched your search . Heres one in VA:  Apex Systems•$75,000 - $85,000


As far as which schools to go to.. We're very flexible in IT in that we ask for "Degree or equivalent experience."  ITT, Devry, Phoenix, and schools like it are all accepted forms of education as far as we're concerned. An example would be having 3 resumes and 2 of which might be UGA or LSU and the third from ITT.. I would treat those equally and in fact our H.R. department does as well. You'll start out at the bottom but the bottom is $35-$40k to start.
 
2013-01-23 02:28:50 PM

xynix: SuperT: what company/city?

Any city.. There are datacenters everywhere from SF on through Idaho and the Dakotas all the way through to Florida. I'm with a tech company so our employees generally cover an "area" or they're in our headquarters doing programming and engineering. For instance someone could live in Jackson, MS or Generic Town, Arizona and they would cover the state and have to drive to places. The point being is that you don't have to be in a major city. One of my co-workers lives on a 100 acre "ranch" right on the border with AL and GA so basically the middle of nowhere. My engineering manager lives on 200 acres in south TN about 50 miles from anything and he's getting around $220k a year living in a place where the cost of living is as low as it gets. The technology has enabled us to live anywhere and still get a good job and salary. I live on Lake Lanier, GA - pretty far away from anything big city.

HotIgneous Intruder: What sort of vocational curriculum would you recommend?
IT in general, yes, but what subspecialties in particular?

Virtualization is hot and is going to remain hot for at least the next 5+ years. VMWare, Hyper-V, and the software that supports them such as Zerto and other replication products. Speaking of which.. Replication is huge, data storage is basically recession proof and data is growing massively, companies will hold off on buying a server if they don't have budget for it. How do you hold off on buying storage when you have 0 bytes left? You don't.. You buy more. SAN engineers of all flavors will be in high demand for ever. That includes NAS engineers and iSCSI experts. When I went to Monster.com just now and typed in "SAN Administrator" I got this in return:  1,000+ San Administrator jobs matched your search . Heres one in VA:  Apex Systems•$75,000 - $85,000


As far as which schools to go to.. We're very flexible in IT in that we ask for "Degree or equivalent experience."  ITT, Devry, Phoenix, and schools like it are all a ...


I would kill for the chance to start with a company while I finish my degree. I hate working helpdesk. also worth killing for, not having to drive to the burbs for work.
 
2013-01-23 03:06:16 PM

xynix: What this article doesn't really point out is the -reliance- on IT that has come about in the past 5 years. IT used to be a nice to have and if Email went down for a couple hours no big deal. Thats not the case anymore.


THIS. My business lost email (tho not internet) for about 6 hours yesterday while I was trying to close two deals with customers. We all reverted to using our personal gmail/yahoo accounts and got the job done, but that was a farking nightmare...and I'm a 5 person company. Can't imagine how dependent virtually all bigger businesses are.

I reamed my provider on the phone, who told their email server (singular!) was down, then looked up their rep on the web. You guessed it...1 star out of 5. I asked our most tech savvy guy, who originally recommended them, what part of a single email server he thought was a good idea. Needless to say, we're moving our online presence soon.
 
2013-01-23 03:35:57 PM

xynix: SuperT: what company/city?

Any city.. There are datacenters everywhere from SF on through Idaho and the Dakotas all the way through to Florida. I'm with a tech company so our employees generally cover an "area" or they're in our headquarters doing programming and engineering. For instance someone could live in Jackson, MS or Generic Town, Arizona and they would cover the state and have to drive to places. The point being is that you don't have to be in a major city. One of my co-workers lives on a 100 acre "ranch" right on the border with AL and GA so basically the middle of nowhere. My engineering manager lives on 200 acres in south TN about 50 miles from anything and he's getting around $220k a year living in a place where the cost of living is as low as it gets. The technology has enabled us to live anywhere and still get a good job and salary. I live on Lake Lanier, GA - pretty far away from anything big city.

HotIgneous Intruder: What sort of vocational curriculum would you recommend?
IT in general, yes, but what subspecialties in particular?

Virtualization is hot and is going to remain hot for at least the next 5+ years. VMWare, Hyper-V, and the software that supports them such as Zerto and other replication products. Speaking of which.. Replication is huge, data storage is basically recession proof and data is growing massively, companies will hold off on buying a server if they don't have budget for it. How do you hold off on buying storage when you have 0 bytes left? You don't.. You buy more. SAN engineers of all flavors will be in high demand for ever. That includes NAS engineers and iSCSI experts. When I went to Monster.com just now and typed in "SAN Administrator" I got this in return:  1,000+ San Administrator jobs matched your search . Heres one in VA:  Apex Systems•$75,000 - $85,000


As far as which schools to go to.. We're very flexible in IT in that we ask for "Degree or equivalent experience."  ITT, Devry, Phoenix, and schools like it are all a ...


VMWare? Is this 2005? All the cool kids are in the Cloud these days.
 
2013-01-23 03:39:44 PM

xynix: The technology has enabled us to live anywhere and still get a good job and salary.


This.

/Prague
 
2013-01-23 04:31:24 PM

John Redcorn: VMWare? Is this 2005? All the cool kids are in the Cloud these days.


What do you think powers those clouds hotshot? ;) Almost any company that has started the cloud process and are in Hybrid Cloud mode are 100% VMW shops backended with replication or storage virtualzation software into an SP or one of their own DCs. Many SPs are going with the Cisco VCE product which combines VMW, Cisco, and EMC into a stackable platform. For VMW it's a win-win.

One of the other things that's interesting to me, being in the cloud business, is that CIOs are not responding to the buzz like they traditionally have - they are being very methodical about making a major change with their IT. Perhaps because CIOs are more tech savvy these days or perhaps they've been burnt one too many times by jumping on whatever's on the cover of CIO Mag. For whatever reason most major corporations have no intention of Clouding themselves and especially not turning to an Amazon or Google for cloud services. Many major corporations are not going to outsource their IT. They've done it before and got burned bad by it so they're building their own hybrids with their own IT staff.

Those companies that are turning to a cloud strategy are basically doing the same things they did before but employing a blueprint strategy centered around VMW for rapid application deployment. Their changing their method into a service oriented model but the fundamentals remain the same. To exit their datacenter they're looking at replication solutions also centered around VMW and possibly a combination of SRM or similar automated fail-over technologies like VPLEX.

If you want to get "Cloud" into your title and make some money then security is where it's at these days. A severe shortage of cyber security folks (think RSA) has left a gaping whole in SPs overall strategy to bring good enterprise level cloud services to market.

SuperT: I would kill for the chance to start with a company while I finish my degree. I hate working helpdesk. also worth killing for, not having to drive to the burbs for work.


What you're doing is gaining experience and that's priceless. Even having two years of helpdesk experience will get you in the door of a major vendor or staffed through an agency. I did helpdesk at DEC for awhile.. farking nightmare so I know how you feel. You have to start somewhere though.
 
2013-01-23 04:50:14 PM

xynix: John Redcorn: VMWare? Is this 2005? All the cool kids are in the Cloud these days.

What do you think powers those clouds hotshot? ;) Almost any company that has started the cloud process and are in Hybrid Cloud mode are 100% VMW shops backended with replication or storage virtualzation software into an SP or one of their own DCs. Many SPs are going with the Cisco VCE product which combines VMW, Cisco, and EMC into a stackable platform. For VMW it's a win-win.

One of the other things that's interesting to me, being in the cloud business, is that CIOs are not responding to the buzz like they traditionally have - they are being very methodical about making a major change with their IT. Perhaps because CIOs are more tech savvy these days or perhaps they've been burnt one too many times by jumping on whatever's on the cover of CIO Mag. For whatever reason most major corporations have no intention of Clouding themselves and especially not turning to an Amazon or Google for cloud services. Many major corporations are not going to outsource their IT. They've done it before and got burned bad by it so they're building their own hybrids with their own IT staff.

Those companies that are turning to a cloud strategy are basically doing the same things they did before but employing a blueprint strategy centered around VMW for rapid application deployment. Their changing their method into a service oriented model but the fundamentals remain the same. To exit their datacenter they're looking at replication solutions also centered around VMW and possibly a combination of SRM or similar automated fail-over technologies like VPLEX.

If you want to get "Cloud" into your title and make some money then security is where it's at these days. A severe shortage of cyber security folks (think RSA) has left a gaping whole in SPs overall strategy to bring good enterprise level cloud services to market.

SuperT: I would kill for the chance to start with a company while I finish my degree. I h ...


The difference is I'm 30 and I'm starting to feel every day of it. Everyday I have to live with every dollar accounted for is taking its toll. Not to mention working in dead end jobs with no insurance is having on my long term health.
 
2013-01-23 05:06:08 PM

SuperT: The difference is I'm 30 and I'm starting to feel every day of it. Everyday I have to live with every dollar accounted for is taking its toll. Not to mention working in dead end jobs with no insurance is having on my long term health.


I know where you're coming from but you're making all the right moves. You're entering a great field with huge growth potential and when you're bringing in 100k a year in 5 or 6 years you'll know it was worth while. What other industry allows you to go from 35k a year to six figures in under 5 years?
 
2013-01-23 05:12:01 PM

xynix: SuperT: The difference is I'm 30 and I'm starting to feel every day of it. Everyday I have to live with every dollar accounted for is taking its toll. Not to mention working in dead end jobs with no insurance is having on my long term health.

I know where you're coming from but you're making all the right moves. You're entering a great field with huge growth potential and when you're bringing in 100k a year in 5 or 6 years you'll know it was worth while. What other industry allows you to go from 35k a year to six figures in under 5 years?


good point. and thanks for the TF!
 
2013-01-23 05:12:52 PM

doczoidberg: I've been saying this for years.

Are advances in technology really such good things if they hurt our economy in the long run by decreasing the number of jobs available?


People were terrified when all the soldiers came home from WWII that it would exacerbate the Depression, but that coincided with an economic boom instead.
 
2013-01-23 05:16:22 PM

YixilTesiphon: doczoidberg: I've been saying this for years.

Are advances in technology really such good things if they hurt our economy in the long run by decreasing the number of jobs available?

People were terrified when all the soldiers came home from WWII that it would exacerbate the Depression, but that coincided with an economic boom instead.


that was because the rest of the world's production capacity had just been reduced to rubble. Our accent to top dog was possible because the americas weren't a front in the war.
 
2013-01-23 05:19:49 PM
The fit is really going to hit the shan when 3d printers and the like evolve from "novelty" to "a farking Star Trek replicator".
 
2013-01-23 05:24:15 PM

xynix: I would treat those equally and in fact our H.R. department does as well. You'll start out at the bottom but the bottom is $35-$40k to start.


Thanks for that and thanks for the TF bump!
 
2013-01-23 05:39:37 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Hyjamon: Capitalism will eventually become a hindrance. A resource based economy might be what we need, but that starts to reek of socialism.

2 day work week.


....Guaranteed Minimum Income.
 
2013-01-23 05:41:51 PM

xynix: A severe shortage of cyber security folks (think RSA) has left a gaping whole in SPs overall strategy to bring good enterprise level cloud services to market.


This. If you're teamed up with a good salesman you don't need to be working for a huge firm protecting big names from Chinese terrorists to make a living. Most businesses are waaaaaay behind understanding what the Internet has become. They understand the potential revenue side of it; some "ma & pa shop" in Wisconsin can make millions by landing deals all over the country. What they don't understand is by the same mechanisms, a crime organization in Russia can sniff the web for vulnerable targets, find their unsecured web server, steal all their account information, and run a protection racket from across the planet. Many of these vulnerabilities are several years old (meaning there's books & courses about them by now), still common and can't be fixed just by updating the software.
 
2013-01-23 06:02:00 PM
I've always believed if you could automate yourself out of a job, you'll never be unemployed.

/Got some weird stares on the train when I told a cold-calling recruiter that I wouldn't leave my current place for anything less than 120K.
//and I don't get out of bed for less than 90.
 
2013-01-23 06:38:23 PM

Nexzus: I don't get out of bed for less than 90.


So, the going rate at your brothel is 89?
 
2013-01-23 06:47:51 PM

Nexzus: I've always believed if you could automate yourself out of a job, you'll never be unemployed.

/Got some weird stares on the train when I told a cold-calling recruiter that I wouldn't leave my current place for anything less than 120K.
//and I don't get out of bed for less than 90.


fark, I'll get out of bed (or in to it) for half that.
 
2013-01-23 07:04:02 PM

Nexzus: I've always believed if you could automate yourself out of a job, you'll never be unemployed.


You better beat someone else to it.
 
2013-01-23 10:10:36 PM

SuperT: xynix: SuperT: The difference is I'm 30 and I'm starting to feel every day of it. Everyday I have to live with every dollar accounted for is taking its toll. Not to mention working in dead end jobs with no insurance is having on my long term health.

I know where you're coming from but you're making all the right moves. You're entering a great field with huge growth potential and when you're bringing in 100k a year in 5 or 6 years you'll know it was worth while. What other industry allows you to go from 35k a year to six figures in under 5 years?

good point. and thanks for the TF!


I'm 32 and in my second semester for a CISY AAS (Already have another unrelated, might go on). It's tough being an adult student but I think it's going to be worth it, especially if we decide to relocate depending on family situation. I'm lucky enough that Lordfortuna already has a job though, so he's footing the bills while I do this (though to be fair to me, I paid off 60% of our house from an inheritance, so his mortgage is tiny). I highly suggest jumping in with both feet if you can; knock it out and improve your life.
 
2013-01-23 10:18:51 PM

xynix: Go to a vocational school and we'll hire you. My company has 1500 jobs open right now in the US starting at around $40k going up to $300k.


WTF kind of tech job pays $300K a year?
 
2013-01-23 11:31:51 PM

stiletto_the_wise: xynix: Go to a vocational school and we'll hire you. My company has 1500 jobs open right now in the US starting at around $40k going up to $300k.

WTF kind of tech job pays $300K a year?


Someone doesn't take the time to browse comments on various websites. I can't tell you how many people have a sister or friend that makes $1754/wk just by following this one simple trick and working from home.
 
2013-01-23 11:39:54 PM

Hyjamon: "I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study
mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and
philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture,
navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children
a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary,
tapestry and porcelain."

John Adams

one of my favorite quotes. Eventually as more of the mundane tasks of existence are automated, it should free us up to explore the beauty of life and move to a more artisan society. But as someone mentioned up-thread, we will need to adopt some other form of "working to live" structure. Capitalism will eventually become a hindrance. A resource based economy might be what we need, but that starts to reek of socialism.


You'd think that talk of a Star Trek style post-scarcity system would have been like a red rag to a bull for a certain discrete punctuation mark.

Personally, I reckon the big change that will occur with an automated economy will be a changed attitude to slackers.

/Hail Bob
 
2013-01-23 11:54:09 PM
The difference is I'm 30 and I'm starting to feel every day of it.

I'm 49 and working on my Masters of Software Engineering.
Growing up everyone said "Go into science, there will always be jobs there!" B.S. I have a PhD in Space Physics and the only reason I stay employed is because I know how to handle data. Current position is designing, building and maintaining a database for an educational research project. Something I learned to do on the side to enable my thesis research.

Databases and web design that interacts with them is another big field that will have high demand for awhile.
 
2013-01-23 11:58:26 PM

stiletto_the_wise: WTF kind of tech job pays $300K a year?


And here I thought xynix spent his time flipping houses, not working for Google or Apple.
 
2013-01-24 01:06:16 AM

SuperT: Nexzus: I've always believed if you could automate yourself out of a job, you'll never be unemployed.

/Got some weird stares on the train when I told a cold-calling recruiter that I wouldn't leave my current place for anything less than 120K.
//and I don't get out of bed for less than 90.

fark, I'll get out of bed (or in to it) for half that.


Depends on the area.

Midwest - 90K is serious money at any point in your career.
California - 90K is kinda eh, especially if you're good enough or experienced enough to be getting cold calls. One bedroom is running about $1800/month in the south bay, or about $2800 in earnings once you factor in taxes, and SF is even worse (albeit you don't need a car). If you're not making at least $60K, you're either in the ghetto, living with roommates (like me), or living really cheaply paycheck to paycheck.

/South Bay. First job after college. Turned down 90K + 90K signing bonus + more stock in Seattle to come here for 70K + lots of equity.
 
2013-01-24 01:41:33 AM

SuperT: only if you get stuck on the idea that everyone has to work in an automated society.


The problem is, how do you transition from a race-to-the-bottom investment-paradigm economy to a hi-tech Marxist utopia?

100 workers pooling savings to buy a piece of capital equipment that can generate revenue to sustain 100 paychecks but only require 20 full-time employees to operate? Then rotating shifts so you only have to work one day a week instead of firing 80 of the workers? Right away, you open up a pandora's box of issues related to competitiveness, incentivization, macro-effects which I can't wrap my head around,etc.

This is why I should have done econ. blah.
 
2013-01-24 02:30:33 AM
If your job can be replaced by a machine you didn't have a good job.
 
2013-01-24 09:35:38 AM

Sergeant Grumbles: stiletto_the_wise: WTF kind of tech job pays $300K a year?

And here I thought xynix spent his time flipping houses, not working for Google or Apple.


Ha no but I have a some rentals I've picked up over the past few years while the market is crap. I'm going to keep those though.. Not getting into flip this house BS.

Sales jobs pay $300k a year for high end enterprise guys. Executive level sales.. They are all over by the way. IBM, HP, even places like McKesson.

This is the general lay out of a high end sales guy on a 50/50 plan which is how it should be:

Base pay 112k (salary)
Commission 112k (paid out if you do 100% of your quota)

Smart people make your quota so if you're a good rep you should be doing 100% minimum. That's your job.. If you're not making 100% you suck and you're fired.

Ok so you're making 225k minimum now the fun part starts. What we call accelerators. An accelerator could be product specific or simply quota driven. Generally accelerators double what you make in commission so if you do 150% of you're number guess what? You get 1/2 of 112k .. so basically 60k. Now you're closing the gap to 300k. If you have a really good year you could do double or triple your number and now you're getting into the 300-400k range and possibly higher. Again - smart people make your quota so don't plan on making 400k every year. Thats generally what you're going to make in year two as you've built up your pipeline and before the smart people know how good you are at selling. But after that you should be doing 250-325k every year.
 
2013-01-24 10:05:53 AM

xynix: Sales jobs pay $300k a year for high end enterprise guys. Executive level sales.. They are all over by the way. IBM, HP, even places like McKesson.


....and my yearly income topped out at $60K back in 2007. It's been downhill since then...

/ wish I had the charisma & personality for salesmanship...
// sounds like a more lucrative career path..
 
2013-01-24 11:04:43 AM
They TUKRJERB!
 
2013-01-24 01:46:36 PM

xynix: Imagine someone getting a dose of Morphine then the system goes down and another nurse comes in to give the patience a dose of Morphine and doesn't know it was just given to the patient? Bad stuff.


Or imagine the automated drug dispensing system won't let the nurse have the patient's  morphine.  Hospitals are using such systems to reduce errors and theft.
 
2013-01-24 04:31:16 PM

xynix: Sales jobs pay $300k a year for high end enterprise guys.


So Sales, not IT.
Can already write that off. I couldn't sell food to a starving millionaire.
I'm more of a "Lock me in a dark room with two neckbeards, a case of red bull, and watch the magic happen" kind of guy.
 
2013-01-24 04:44:48 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: xynix: Sales jobs pay $300k a year for high end enterprise guys.

So Sales, not IT.
Can already write that off. I couldn't sell food to a starving millionaire.
I'm more of a "Lock me in a dark room with two neckbeards, a case of red bull, and watch the magic happen" kind of guy.


IT Sales my friend. I'm a geek at heart and mind.. I make my own gaming rigs, have an MSI gaming laptop, play XBox every Friday, MMOs, etc etc. I started my career in data centers building servers and loading up windows NT.

Imagine who the target audience is. You're not selling a car and you're not selling clothes. You're making friends with people who work in technology and mostly enjoy what they're doing and love the tech part of it. My "selling" consists of white boarding a customers environment and then talking about how my product fits into their infrastructure and what benefits it has. We sit around having lunch and discuss it more and sometimes go deep into the tech. If I'm travelling I often take them out to dinner, paid for by the company, to whatever the best place is in town. Usually the best steak house or seafood joint.. That's a hell of a fringe benefit and the customers love it. Plus you're building a friendship.

If you walk in and act like a sales guy they'll kick you out and not buy your shiat. This is especially true at places like Disney where if you wear a tie they'll kick your ass right on out. There is strategy to it though.. You do have to pay attention to buy signals. You do have to ask for the sale.. But that comes after building a working relationship with the customer based on technology you both like. The best IT sales guys are IT guys who moved up the ranks and decided they wanted to get into the relationship side of things. For me it was a no brainer because I wanted the money so I could buy more fun shiat to play with.

Tech sales in the right company is also ethical. I have never lied to a customer or even fudged on what my product can do or will be able to do. That's a one way ticket to the unemployment line.

You could do it and would probably be good at it. A lot of people i've talked with on Fark could also do it.. It just takes technical knowledge. The only downside, and it's a small one for me because I crush my number, is the quota part. When it comes down to the 25th of the month, last month of the quarter, and you're at 50% of your number you tend to pull some hair out. It can be very stressful which is why some people stay in the system engineering ranks where they can still make 200+k just not the huge number. My engineering manager who runs my SE team is bringing in 225k plus a good equity plan that gives him another 10-20k a year in stock, plus an MBO that will see him get an additional 10-30k a year based on how much selling my sales guy do. That's a farking nice package for a guy that is 100% technical.
 
2013-01-24 05:20:47 PM

xynix: IT Sales my friend.


Sales. End of story.
Not trying to knock you, but I'd rather shovel shiat than have to deal with customers and clients for my paycheck, no matter what I was selling.
I'll stick to 100% technical.

Are you working for rackspace, by any chance?
 
2013-01-25 01:41:02 AM

Sergeant Grumbles: xynix: IT Sales my friend.

Sales. End of story.
Not trying to knock you, but I'd rather shovel shiat than have to deal with customers and clients for my paycheck, no matter what I was selling.
I'll stick to 100% technical.

Are you working for rackspace, by any chance?


I used to work at Circuit City and EB Games before that, and while I absolutely get what you're saying, sales is actually a good way to build communication skills. The thing is, I was lucky enough to learn in an environment that at first, did not threaten my employment daily over sales goals. That meant I was able to build my skills at it without having to be pushy. I eventually got good enough at it that I am (was) often able to sell things to people on the power of suggestion (ie they were already looking for 'a phone', so I told them which one I liked best), not by beating them over the head with it. When CC finally was pushing 'goals' like crazy (I was in the DVD department, but they still made me act like I was on commission), I started moonlighting in other departments occasionally and had near the highest percentages in the store because of it, but I never forced a customer into anything. Rarely had returns count against me, either.

Just something to think about before you totally dismiss sales as a career; people are always going to need 'stuff' of some sort, and it can be a good complimentary skill.
 
Displayed 50 of 50 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report