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(The Verge)   Google, Apple, and the do not hire lists   (theverge.com) divider line 34
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6725 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Jan 2013 at 10:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-23 10:45:08 AM  
img.photobucket.com

It happens.
 
2013-01-23 10:45:11 AM  
My takeaway from the article is that Steve Jobs should have his own wing in the shiattiest buddhists of all time hall of fame.
 
2013-01-23 10:48:32 AM  

JohnBigBootay: My takeaway from the article is that Steve Jobs should have his own wing in the shiattiest buddhists of all time hall of fame.


Agreed.
 
2013-01-23 10:54:09 AM  
Depending on the Buddhists, and by that I mean cultural Buddhists rather than Western flakes, they have some rather interesting Hells.
 
2013-01-23 10:59:46 AM  
How dare they compete for these underlings' attention?
 
2013-01-23 11:00:11 AM  
Can't wait for the follow-up. This will keep at least a thousand lawyers fully employed for the next ten years, so technically they're heroic job creators.
 
2013-01-23 11:02:27 AM  
It wouldn't surprise me to find out that there's even more collusion going on between Apple and Google than this.
 
2013-01-23 11:03:19 AM  

Nurglitch: Depending on the Buddhists, and by that I mean cultural Buddhists rather than Western flakes, they have some rather interesting Hells.


I suspect someone is enjoying animal world about now.
 
2013-01-23 11:10:16 AM  
And just to make sure we stay super-best-friends-forever you can be on our board of directors and I'll be on yours and we'll vote each other farking huge piles of cash instead of allowing the people doing the actual work to be paid what the market will bear.
 
2013-01-23 11:11:24 AM  

JohnBigBootay: Nurglitch: Depending on the Buddhists, and by that I mean cultural Buddhists rather than Western flakes, they have some rather interesting Hells.

I suspect someone is enjoying animal world about now.


Jobs has been reborn as a Tyson Chicken in a no-light closed ventilation Kentucky chicken farm twenty to thirty times since his death?

This kind of collusion is monopolistic and illegal. I hope they get reamed by the lawsuit.
 
2013-01-23 11:19:35 AM  

Marine1: It wouldn't surprise me to find out that there's even more collusion going on between Apple and Google than this.


little did we know all those garage-born anti-rule ego-driven geniuses didn't mature when they suddenly got flushed with billions of dollars
 
2013-01-23 11:20:42 AM  
So that's why I didn't hear back from them. Assholes.
 
2013-01-23 11:26:00 AM  
Yeah, it sucks having your best and brightest leave for a better job. That's how the world works. There are two ways of dealing with it:

1) make sure you are providing your people with pay and opportunities that will make them want to stay with you; or

2) be a total biatch about it.
 
2013-01-23 11:59:09 AM  
This is why you tie your employees down with golden handcuffs.  Make them agonize over any decision to leave the company.
 
2013-01-23 12:11:24 PM  

H31N0US: This kind of collusion is monopolistic and illegal.


That right there.

This is the reason antitrust legislation exists in the first place -- not to punish big companies just for being big companies, but rather to prevent them from using their considerable power to actively inhibit free markets.

This is hard evidence of using a classic "old-boy's club" to prevent the rank-and-file employees of their companies to compete freely for positions. They are inhibiting a free labor market. It's not even about whether or not they "tie down with golden handcuffs" as Dinjiin says; it's about restricting employee access to a free labor market by creating secret, systemic obstacles.
 
2013-01-23 12:11:31 PM  

Dinjiin: This is why you tie your employees down with golden handcuffs.  Make them agonize over any decision to leave the company.


Golden handcuffs cost money. That's the point of all of this.

Apple pays employee $120,000 yearly salary and offers x benefits package. Google then wants the talent of this employee and offers then $130,000 yearly salary, offering them y benefits package, which is superior to x. Apple can do one of three things here:

A) keep their employee, hoping that company loyalty and non-compensation factors contribute to the employee staying (basically, a gamble)
B) keep their employee by offering a raise to the employee, whether the market price of his/her labor warrants it or not;
C) lose the employee

By agreeing to not "poach" employees, you reduce the overall cost of your human capital and make the HR process easier to deal with. You also deny the human capital a good career path and lock them in to a sort of servitude, which is why it's illegal.
 
2013-01-23 12:19:27 PM  
In the middle of the first Dot-com boom, almost all my friends who were working in the idustr expected at least two "cold calls" a week from recruiters and head hunters offering 50%+ raises and Millions in stock options, and they'd start getting nervous about their skill sets if more than a month went by without such offers.   It was that competition that lead to the famously perk-laden office environments those companies were famous for, as companies figured that if they made you really enjoy coming to work, you were less likely to leave for a new place, because if they tried to compete on salary alone they'd all be bankrupt in short order.

If Apple's strategy of keeping thier employees as virtual indentured servants by threatening to patent troll anyone who hired their engineers isn't the screaming red flag on why we desperately need to reform the patent system, I don't know what is.
 
2013-01-23 12:48:50 PM  
cefm : 1) make sure you are providing your people with pay and opportunities that will make them want to stay with you; or

2) be a total biatch about it.


Yeah, maybe they could take some of that "asymmetry in the financial resources of our respective companies" and you know, give it to their employees vs wasting it on litigation. Give a couple of employees a 10k bonus one review and see if people still want to take off before the next review.
 
2013-01-23 12:54:32 PM  

lordargent: cefm : 1) make sure you are providing your people with pay and opportunities that will make them want to stay with you; or

2) be a total biatch about it.

Yeah, maybe they could take some of that "asymmetry in the financial resources of our respective companies" and you know, give it to their employees vs wasting it on litigation. Give a couple of employees a 10k bonus one review and see if people still want to take off before the next review.


Pssh... what... and be a decent boss?

That's not what Stevie J was all about.

/Bill Gates looks like one of the 12 apostles in comparison
//and not Judas
 
2013-01-23 12:56:25 PM  

Marine1: Golden handcuffs cost money. That's the point of all of this.


The lawsuits are probably going to cost more.
 
2013-01-23 01:00:11 PM  

Dinjiin: Marine1: Golden handcuffs cost money. That's the point of all of this.

The lawsuits are probably going to cost more.


Oh, absolutely. I'm just pointing out the "logic" that Jobs, Schmidt, and the rest were using.

Hopefully it costs their companies a good chunk of their net worths.

/IT student
//not at all amused with people farking with my future job prospects
 
2013-01-23 01:00:37 PM  

Dinjiin: Marine1: Golden handcuffs cost money. That's the point of all of this.

The lawsuits are probably going to cost more.


sadly those hurt by this will see pennies on the dollar
 
2013-01-23 01:09:24 PM  
How is IBM not on this list
 
2013-01-23 01:48:12 PM  
Asymmetry in financial resources. That's awesome.
 
2013-01-23 01:49:53 PM  

H31N0US: This kind of collusion is monopolistic and illegal.


Based on the content of the emails, it sure looks that way. Especially the parts where they talk about how important it is to be discreet about the existence of the "handshake agreements".

A reciprocal no-poaching policy is probably more defensible than a reciprocal no-hire policy, though. It depends on whether the agency lies with an HR recruiter initiating contact while representing the company's interests, or an employee representing his own.
 
2013-01-23 02:01:40 PM  

poot_rootbeer: H31N0US: This kind of collusion is monopolistic and illegal.

Based on the content of the emails, it sure looks that way. Especially the parts where they talk about how important it is to be discreet about the existence of the "handshake agreements".

A reciprocal no-poaching policy is probably more defensible than a reciprocal no-hire policy, though. It depends on whether the agency lies with an HR recruiter initiating contact while representing the company's interests, or an employee representing his own.


Given how those emails are written... I doubt it will matter. It paints a picture of a bunch of executives who knew what they were doing was wrong, and did it anyways.
 
2013-01-23 02:32:25 PM  

Marine1: poot_rootbeer: H31N0US: This kind of collusion is monopolistic and illegal.

Based on the content of the emails, it sure looks that way. Especially the parts where they talk about how important it is to be discreet about the existence of the "handshake agreements".

A reciprocal no-poaching policy is probably more defensible than a reciprocal no-hire policy, though. It depends on whether the agency lies with an HR recruiter initiating contact while representing the company's interests, or an employee representing his own.

Given how those emails are written... I doubt it will matter. It paints a picture of a bunch of executives who knew what they were doing was wrong, and did it anyways.


the firing of HR people to demonstrate the power of their fully operational death star their new found agreement is pretty damning, I have to imagine there something there
 
2013-01-23 04:10:26 PM  
seems suspicious and should have more light but it does seem like don't spam my employees with offers and we won't spam yours? if the employee initiates that's fine but don't linked in every apple developer...
 
2013-01-23 04:56:00 PM  

farbekrieg: How is IBM not on this list


I hear that employees from Big Blue, especially if they're old school, tend to have a much different culture and mindset than those from more upstart tech companies.  It might just be that the Apples and Googles of the world don't want them as much.
 
2013-01-23 05:09:26 PM  

Virulency: seems suspicious and should have more light but it does seem like don't spam my employees with offers and we won't spam yours? if the employee initiates that's fine but don't linked in every apple developer...


The companies are deliberately subverting the free labor market by engaging in collusion. They're agreeing amongst themselves, in secret and opaquely to the labor market, to avoid bidding up compensation packages by not poaching each other's top candidates.

This is purely about an "old-boy's network" using their connections and power among each other to prevent their employees from having leverage in the labor market. It's Robber Baron shiat, and it's repulsive.
 
2013-01-23 06:46:20 PM  

BKITU: Virulency: seems suspicious and should have more light but it does seem like don't spam my employees with offers and we won't spam yours? if the employee initiates that's fine but don't linked in every apple developer...

The companies are deliberately subverting the free labor market by engaging in collusion. They're agreeing amongst themselves, in secret and opaquely to the labor market, to avoid bidding up compensation packages by not poaching each other's top candidates.

This is purely about an "old-boy's network" using their connections and power among each other to prevent their employees from having leverage in the labor market. It's Robber Baron shiat, and it's repulsive.


This.

Dinjiin: farbekrieg: How is IBM not on this list

I hear that employees from Big Blue, especially if they're old school, tend to have a much different culture and mindset than those from more upstart tech companies.  It might just be that the Apples and Googles of the world don't want them as much.


I also wondered about that.

/former IBM contractor
//also former Comcast
///got nothin'
 
2013-01-23 09:32:01 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Can't wait for the follow-up. This will keep at least a thousand lawyers fully employed for the next ten years, so technically they're heroic job creators.


The follow-up? Where millionaire CEOs get punished? Funny.
 
2013-01-23 11:04:37 PM  

Dinobot: JohnBigBootay: My takeaway from the article is that Steve Jobs should have his own wing in the shiattiest buddhists of all time hall of fame.

Agreed.


Seconded. Now, can we stop deifying him? He was the Edison of our time - happy to exploit whatever and whoever he could to make a buck, all the while basking in the glory of the misconceptions of others.
 
2013-01-24 09:16:34 AM  
F#ck you Steve. Is it any wonder why average salaries have stagnated in the last 30 years while pricks like Jobs became outrageously wealthy?
 
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