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(Salon)   Paul Ryan never said recipients of Medicare and Medicaid were "takers." Except all the times he did. Glad that's cleared up   (salon.com) divider line 72
    More: Obvious, Paul Ryan, Medicare and Medicaid, Medicare, Medicaid, Hurricane Sandy, Tax Foundation  
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1848 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Jan 2013 at 10:21 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-23 09:14:58 AM  
What The Taker may look like

userserve-ak.last.fm


mimg.ugo.com
 
2013-01-23 09:19:25 AM  
The only thing worse than a Randian is a wishy-washy, lying, hypocritical Randian who denies they're a Randian.
 
2013-01-23 09:30:13 AM  
Why are people still listening to Paul Ryan? He doesn't actually think he's going to run in 2016 does he?
 
2013-01-23 09:32:57 AM  

Diogenes: The only thing worse than a Randian is a wishy-washy, lying, hypocritical Randian who denies they're a Randian.


What if he's French, too?
 
2013-01-23 09:38:07 AM  

ib_thinkin: Diogenes: The only thing worse than a Randian is a wishy-washy, lying, hypocritical Randian who denies they're a Randian.

What if he's French, too?


Meh.  I always assume Randians are smelly.
 
2013-01-23 09:42:30 AM  

Diogenes: The only thing worse than a Randian is a wishy-washy, lying, hypocritical Randian who denies they're a Randian.


If Ryan just stood his ground and said 'yeah, I think y'all are a bunch of takers and moochers and that I wanna throw you all into the gutter where you belong' then I'd have more respect for the guy.  I'd still oppose him mind you, but at least he'd be honest about his beliefs and that's something I always admire.
 
2013-01-23 09:44:54 AM  

Mugato: Why are people still listening to Paul Ryan? He doesn't actually think he's going to run in 2016 does he?


He's had a taste of the limelight, hell yeah he's gonna run.
 
2013-01-23 09:45:36 AM  

Weaver95: Diogenes: The only thing worse than a Randian is a wishy-washy, lying, hypocritical Randian who denies they're a Randian.

If Ryan just stood his ground and said 'yeah, I think y'all are a bunch of takers and moochers and that I wanna throw you all into the gutter where you belong' then I'd have more respect for the guy.  I'd still oppose him mind you, but at least he'd be honest about his beliefs and that's something I always admire.


That's my feeling.
 
2013-01-23 09:48:06 AM  
Oh yes please Mr. Ryan, please run. I can't wait for the match up of Biden versus Ryan again.... LOL

Deal with it.
 
2013-01-23 09:48:09 AM  

propasaurus: Mugato: Why are people still listening to Paul Ryan? He doesn't actually think he's going to run in 2016 does he?

He's had a taste of the limelight, hell yeah he's gonna run.


I'll put my money on the inanimate carbon rod.
 
2013-01-23 09:50:07 AM  

Mugato: propasaurus: Mugato: Why are people still listening to Paul Ryan? He doesn't actually think he's going to run in 2016 does he?

He's had a taste of the limelight, hell yeah he's gonna run.

I'll put my money on the inanimate carbon rod.


The rod up that man's ass has a rod up its ass.
 
2013-01-23 09:55:19 AM  
Paul Ryan has the same problem all Republicans have. As Ezra Klein put it during the fiscal cliff negotiations:

Today's Republican Party thinks the key problem America faces is out-of-control entitlement spending. But cutting entitlement spending is unpopular and the GOP's coalition relies heavily on seniors. And so they don't want to propose entitlement cuts. If possible, they'd even like to attack President Obama for proposing entitlement cuts. But they also want to see entitlements cut and will refuse to solve the fiscal cliff or raise the debt ceiling unless there are entitlement cuts.
 
2013-01-23 10:05:42 AM  
I wonder how Ryan intends to resolve the inherent paradox of his beliefs?  if he wants to call himself a Catholic, he can't follow Ayn Rand or her ideology at all.  they are inherently antithetical belief systems...you cannot be both at the same time.
 
2013-01-23 10:09:54 AM  

Weaver95: I wonder how Ryan intends to resolve the inherent paradox of his beliefs?  if he wants to call himself a Catholic, he can't follow Ayn Rand or her ideology at all.  they are inherently antithetical belief systems...you cannot be both at the same time.


You underestimate the ability of cognitive dissonance to overcome any logic.
 
2013-01-23 10:11:15 AM  

Weaver95: I wonder how Ryan intends to resolve the inherent paradox of his beliefs?  if he wants to call himself a Catholic, he can't follow Ayn Rand or her ideology at all.  they are inherently antithetical belief systems...you cannot be both at the same time.


That's what my friends told me when I decided at age 21 to be a Zen-Christian Tao-Objectivist.

The important lesson is if you want to believe weird combinations of things, don't actually name them.
 
2013-01-23 10:19:51 AM  

gilgigamesh: Weaver95: I wonder how Ryan intends to resolve the inherent paradox of his beliefs?  if he wants to call himself a Catholic, he can't follow Ayn Rand or her ideology at all.  they are inherently antithetical belief systems...you cannot be both at the same time.

You underestimate the ability of cognitive dissonance to overcome any logic.


well yes, but at that point you're just making shiat up and calling it whatever you want.  you actually aren't Catholic or an Objectivist anymore...you've become a heretic in both belief systems.
 
2013-01-23 10:21:47 AM  

Weaver95: I wonder how Ryan intends to resolve the inherent paradox of his beliefs?  if he wants to call himself a Catholic, he can't follow Ayn Rand or her ideology at all.  they are inherently antithetical belief systems...you cannot be both at the same time.


Everything most conservative republcans believe in is in direct conflict with Christianity. They love the Old Testament but that Jesus stuff is just for decals they put on the back of their SUVs. No need to single out Ryan.
 
2013-01-23 10:24:31 AM  
Wow. Paul Ryan is pretty farking dumb.
 
2013-01-23 10:26:30 AM  
They are takers though.

Sure, they paid tons in taxes with the expectation that they would have these benefits when they retired. Then, they voted for politicians who raided those funds and used the money to build an empire and fund a rather large safety net. Now that they want the money out of those funds, it turns out that the military and safety nets weren't the best place to safeguard them, and now someone is getting screwed.

The question is - who should get screwed? I would argue that the people who voted for the politicians that raided their retirement funds should accept a good deal of the responsibility, and thus pain.
 
2013-01-23 10:26:40 AM  
Paul Ryan has done his part for the poor.
media.al.com
 
2013-01-23 10:27:18 AM  
I don't get it. If entitlements are bad, then why did he attack Obama for "cutting" (or rather, reducing the future growth rate) $700 billion from Medicare?
 
2013-01-23 10:28:46 AM  
I look forward to the day when the only Paul Ryan anyone recognizes is the comic book artist who used to draw The Flash and Fantastic Four

www.newsarama.com

comicmegastore.com
 
2013-01-23 10:28:48 AM  

Weaver95: Diogenes: The only thing worse than a Randian is a wishy-washy, lying, hypocritical Randian who denies they're a Randian.

If Ryan just stood his ground and said 'yeah, I think y'all are a bunch of takers and moochers and that I wanna throw you all into the gutter where you belong' then I'd have more respect for the guy.  I'd still oppose him mind you, but at least he'd be honest about his beliefs and that's something I always admire.


That's why people liked RON PAUL he sticks too his crazy ideas, but don't care much for his son, RAND PAUL, who isn't so honest about his crazyness.
 
2013-01-23 10:29:13 AM  
This guy is one hidden camera in a donor meeting away from political oblivion.
 
2013-01-23 10:29:37 AM  
www.drjtbc.org
 
2013-01-23 10:29:46 AM  
At this point, its only news if Paul Ryan doesn't lie
 
2013-01-23 10:30:10 AM  

Paktu: I don't get it. If entitlements are bad, then why did he attack Obama for "cutting" (or rather, reducing the future growth rate) $700 billion from Medicare?


Because marginally employed people from high school on my facebook page are certain that it is not an entitlement because you get back exactly the amount of money you put in.

At least that's what I think they think. It's more like "Sorry Mr. 0'bama, but it is not entitlement because its my money!!"
 
2013-01-23 10:32:12 AM  
i.huffpost.com

If you old people would just hit the P90X, you wouldn't be feeble and decrepit and have to be takers.
 
2013-01-23 10:33:58 AM  

propasaurus: Mugato: Why are people still listening to Paul Ryan? He doesn't actually think he's going to run in 2016 does he?

He's had a taste of the limelight, hell yeah he's gonna run.


He needs a week of rehab in Wasila, Alaska.

Ya know, that addiction never goes away. Once an addict, always an addict. He just needs to remember to take it one day at a time.
 
2013-01-23 10:34:48 AM  
Still awaiting the post election tell-all book that explains why in the world Romney chose this guy as a running mate then hid him away via BFE appearances.
 
2013-01-23 10:34:58 AM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: At this point, its only news if Paul Ryan doesn't lie


This. It would also be news if the Republican base started to care if their political leaders lie or not.
 
2013-01-23 10:37:51 AM  

Mugato: Everything most conservative republcans believe in is in direct conflict with Christianity. They love the Old Testament but that Jesus stuff is just for decals they put on the back of their SUVs. No need to single out Ryan.


Are you making fun of my bald head? All I'm saying is: Watch out for bears.
 
2013-01-23 10:38:16 AM  

the opposite of charity is justice: Still awaiting the post election tell-all book that explains why in the world Romney chose this guy as a running mate then hid him away via BFE appearances.


i don't think they would have been able to strongly feature any vp pick. mitt romney is pure, unfiltered charisma. he's a cowboy rockstar and he doesn't share his trail stage with anyone.
 
2013-01-23 10:38:57 AM  
Republicans prey upon the weak minded and foolish. They skulk in the shadows of low information, and have carved themselves a grand feast
 
2013-01-23 10:41:13 AM  
Paul Ryan is the intellectual pinnacle of the Republican party much like Gingrich before him. It does not surprise me that liberals don't understand him when he uses big words.
 
2013-01-23 10:41:58 AM  
"Right now about 60 percent of the American people get more benefits in dollar value from the federal government than they pay back in taxes. So we're going to a majority of takers versus makers in America."

"Right now, according to the Tax Foundation, between 60 and 70 percent of Americans get more benefits from the government than they pay back in taxes. So, we're getting towards a society where we have a net majority of takers versus makers."

"When the president does kind of a switcheroo like that, what he's trying to say is that we are maligning these programs that people have earned throughout their working lives," he said. "So it's kind of a convenient twist of terms to try and shadowbox a straw man in order to win an argument by default."


So, in those first two quotes he wasn't including Social Security and Medicare?

"No one is suggesting that what we call our earned entitlements, entitlements you pay for like payroll taxes for Medicare and Social Security, are putting you in a taker category. No one suggests that whatsoever."

However, when he described Social Security as a "ponzi scheme:"

"It's not a criminal enterprise, but it is a pay as you go system where earlier investors, or say taxpayers, get a positive rate of return and the most recent investors, or taxpayers, get a negative rate of return. That's how those schemes work."

Wouldn't that make current recipients "takers?" They're getting a positive rate of return while those of us currently paying get a negative one.
Fark Paul Ryan, fark Ayn Rand, and fark Objectivists.
 
2013-01-23 10:43:26 AM  
A friend from high school recently posted something on facebook, one of those "YOU MUST READ THIS" things. It was a speech by somebody about how the old America is gone, gone, gone, and now all we have left is an America of people who want "free stuff." I presume his parents (who would be in their 80s, like mine) refuse to accept Social Security and Medicare on principle, and he gladly picks up their bills, or tells them to go ahead and die if they're done creating jobs. (No, they're not rich.)
 
2013-01-23 10:43:37 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Republicans prey upon the weak minded and foolish. They skulk in the shadows of low information, and have carved themselves a grand feast


The GOP pundits have been beating the 'low information voter' drum for a couple weeks now.  see, they've decided that the GOP didn't screw up...its just that Obama stole (and corrupted) tactics from Reagan, and then used those tactics to get 'low information voters' to the polls and vote for him.  or something.  the cognitive dissonance among Republican pundits these days is strong enough to rip holes in 8 dimensions.

this article also touches on something that's becoming common among GOP rank and file as well as the Republican pundit machine...the idea that it's ok to call voters 'stupid' or 'low information' and yell at 'em for electing Obama...then wonder why nobody is voting Republican anymore.  the effect of all this being the Republican view that 'hey, maybe if we yell and insult all the voters, they'll start voting for us again'.  which is a pretty strange way to go about staying in office if you ask me.
 
2013-01-23 10:45:22 AM  

Jake Havechek: Wow. Paul Ryan is pretty farking dumb.


i47.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-23 10:46:26 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: This guy is one hidden camera in a donor meeting away from political oblivion.


When he says stuff like this in a public forum, I can't imagine what he might say in private.

(1:45) I just want to speak to you a little bit about Ayn Rand and what she meant to me in my life and [in] the fight we're engaged here in Congress. I grew up on Ayn Rand, that's what I tell people..you know everybody does their soul-searching, and trying to find out who they are and what they believe, and you learn about yourself.

(2:01) I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are, and what my beliefs are. It's inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff. We start with Atlas Shrugged. People tell me I need to start with The Fountainhead then go to Atlas Shrugged [laughter]. There's a big debate about that. We go to Fountainhead, but then we move on, and we require Mises and Hayek as well.

(2:23) But the reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.

(2:38) In almost every fight we are involved in here, on Capitol Hill, whether it's an amendment vote that I'll take later on this afternoon, or a big piece of policy we're putting through our Ways and Means Committee, it is a fight that usually comes down to one conflict: individualism vs. collectivism.

(2:54) And so when you take a look at where we are today, ah, some would say we're on offense, some would say we're on defense, I'd say it's a little bit of both. And when you look at the twentieth-century experiment with collectivism-that Ayn Rand, more than anybody else, did such a good job of articulating the pitfalls of statism and collectivism-you can't find another thinker or writer who did a better job of describing and laying out the moral case for capitalism than Ayn Rand.

(3: 21) It's so important that we go back to our roots to look at Ayn Rand's vision, her writings, to see what our girding, under-grounding [sic] principles are. I always go back to, you know, Francisco d'Anconia's speech (at Bill Taggart's wedding) on money when I think about monetary policy. And then I go to the 64-page John Galt speech, you know, on the radio at the end, and go back to a lot of other things that she did, to try and make sure that I can check my premises so that I know that what I'm believing and doing and advancing are square with the key principles of individualism...

(6:53) Is this an easy fight? Absolutely not...But if we're going to actually win this we need to make sure that we're solid on premises, that our principles are well-defended, and if we want to go and articulately defend these principles and what they mean to our society, what they mean for the trends that we set internationally, we have to go back to Ayn Rand. Because there is no better place to find the moral case for capitalism and individualism than through Ayn Rand's writings and works.
 
2013-01-23 10:50:16 AM  

Paktu: I don't get it. If entitlements are bad, then why did he attack Obama for "cutting" (or rather, reducing the future growth rate) $700 billion from Medicare?


It was a thinly-veiled, "WHERE IS YOUR MESSIAH NOW?!?"
 
2013-01-23 10:51:53 AM  
I don't know what the complaint is. He's not defending himself against the liberal media's questions. He's pandering to the stupidest Americans. "He said he was Christ-like....so I believe him!"
 
2013-01-23 10:52:45 AM  

the opposite of charity is justice: Still awaiting the post election tell-all book that explains why in the world Romney chose this guy as a running mate then hid him away via BFE appearances.


Simple.  He liked him.

Romney was a terrible campaigner and probably didn't listen to his staff when he thought he was right.  He is not a man accustomed to being told "no" or "you shouldn't do that."  He was probably presented with a slate of candidates, and decided, "I just like this guy" and the rest is settled history.
 
2013-01-23 10:55:17 AM  

rufus-t-firefly: HotWingConspiracy: This guy is one hidden camera in a donor meeting away from political oblivion.

When he says stuff like this in a public forum, I can't imagine what he might say in private.


I wonder how many of them realize Ayn Rand was an Atheist.
 
2013-01-23 10:55:48 AM  
Thank god the American people were not completely off their rocker...

Compared with Biden... he throws sand in the sandbox.
 
2013-01-23 10:59:19 AM  

MindStalker: rufus-t-firefly: HotWingConspiracy: This guy is one hidden camera in a donor meeting away from political oblivion.

When he says stuff like this in a public forum, I can't imagine what he might say in private.

I wonder how many of them realize Ayn Rand was an Atheist.


And a government "moocher".
 
2013-01-23 11:02:55 AM  

DamnYankees: Paul Ryan has the same problem all Republicans have. As Ezra Klein put it during the fiscal cliff negotiations:

Today's Republican Party thinks the key problem America faces is out-of-control entitlement spending. But cutting entitlement spending is unpopular and the GOP's coalition relies heavily on seniors. And so they don't want to propose entitlement cuts. If possible, they'd even like to attack President Obama for proposing entitlement cuts. But they also want to see entitlements cut and will refuse to solve the fiscal cliff or raise the debt ceiling unless there are entitlement cuts.


Yep; Republicans support unpopular legislation that can be used as a cudgel against them during elections, so instead they have decided to threaten to severely threaten the ability of this country to function unless Democrats advocate those policies instead.

It is true that tough choices need to be made about spending at both Health and Human Services and the Defense Department. There just isn't enough money in discretionary non-military spending to balance the budget. In 2012, we raised about $2.47 trillon in revenues but spent $2.39 trillion on Social Security (which was covered by FICA receipts, but still counts towards the total), Health and Human Services, and the Department of Defense. That left us with less than $80 billion to cover every other government function (actual total spending on everything else: about $1.41 trillion).

Ideally the solution to this is to have a bipartisan committee hash it out behind closed doors and then introduce it together, so both sides have cover that it wad the other side responsible for everything that sucks. We tried that with Bowles-Simpson, and the result was talking heads on both sides tearing it to pieces as unacceptable for touching their sacred cows and as a result the commission voted against bringing their own proposal to the House floor for a vote and finger pointing about how it is the other sides' fault the plan never took off. We're screwed, aren't we?
 
2013-01-23 11:08:50 AM  

Weaver95: I wonder how Ryan intends to resolve the inherent paradox of his beliefs?  if he wants to call himself a Catholic, he can't follow Ayn Rand or her ideology at all.  they are inherently antithetical belief systems...you cannot be both at the same time.


Easy. Internalize the "you are the center of the universe, the only moral thing is to look out for yourself" part of Ayn Rand, and then just go through life paying lip service to whichever philosophy suits your political needs at any given moment.

Pandering to some fundies? Bust out the Catholicism.
Need to defund social programs? Now you're a Randian.
Something terrible happens to your home state and you need federal money? Back to the Catholicism.
 
2013-01-23 11:17:18 AM  

Kibbler: A friend from high school recently posted something on facebook, one of those "YOU MUST READ THIS" things. It was a speech by somebody about how the old America is gone, gone, gone, and now all we have left is an America of people who want "free stuff." I presume his parents (who would be in their 80s, like mine) refuse to accept Social Security and Medicare on principle, and he gladly picks up their bills, or tells them to go ahead and die if they're done creating jobs. (No, they're not rich.)


You should have asked him if his parents are getting Social Security benefits. And if they are, are they going to send back the money that exceeds what they put in.
 
2013-01-23 11:27:46 AM  

Diogenes: Weaver95: Diogenes: The only thing worse than a Randian is a wishy-washy, lying, hypocritical Randian who denies they're a Randian.

If Ryan just stood his ground and said 'yeah, I think y'all are a bunch of takers and moochers and that I wanna throw you all into the gutter where you belong' then I'd have more respect for the guy.  I'd still oppose him mind you, but at least he'd be honest about his beliefs and that's something I always admire.

That's my feeling.


Indeed. It's like teabaggers who are willing to come right out and say they don't like Obama because he's a niBONNNNNNG instead of using horseshiat phrases like "He's not one of us." Sure, calling him a niBONNNNNG still makes you a worthless, piece of scum racist, but I can at least appreciate him being honest instead of a lying coward.
 
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