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(WESH Orlando)   Helicopter parenting in the age of school shootings: hiring a deputy to patrol your child's school   (wesh.com) divider line 96
    More: Florida, helicopter parenting, Flagler, Sandy Hook Elementary School, school shootings, Flagler County, middle schools, elementary schools  
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3711 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jan 2013 at 10:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-22 11:29:22 PM
What if the deputy is the psychopath with the gun?
 
2013-01-22 11:31:50 PM

Sherman Potter: Mark Ratner: I'm not so sure a rent-a-cop with one measly handgun would be much of a match against a psycho in full body armor, armed to the teeth with an AK-47.

Since when is a Deputy a "rent-a-cop?" Deputies are sworn officers that generally engage in something called "training" every now and again.

/deputies wear body armor too, as do almost all cops
//and they have something called a "service rifle" in the car, usually an AR.


We called off duty cops in our school, rent-a-cops. They're real police officers, but we only had one patrolling the halls and parking lot.
 
2013-01-22 11:32:25 PM
Just stop it. All of you. Trying to make this into a bad thing, or a retarded Florida thing is weak. My district actually found the money to put a deputy at my kids es. And I am absolutely fine with it. Pretty pleased in fact! So yeah. shhh shhh shhhhhhh.
 
2013-01-22 11:34:58 PM
When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?
 
2013-01-22 11:35:08 PM

Begoggle: What if the deputy is the psychopath with the gun?


You hire Leon.
 
2013-01-22 11:35:12 PM
Wanting schools to have more nutritional meals means you are a socialist trying to force your views on others, but wanting armed guards at schools is just good parenting.

This is the right wing version of our world.
 
2013-01-22 11:36:32 PM
sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

Yes.
 
2013-01-22 11:36:49 PM

sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?


D) Panic Hardware on the doors
 
2013-01-22 11:45:32 PM
Sooo... More guns?

/More guns if you're rich.
/Its always more guns if you're rich.
 
2013-01-22 11:46:05 PM

ultraholland: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

Yes.


Shoot the hostage?

/the tao of Keanu
 
2013-01-22 11:46:23 PM
If I had the money to hire a deputy, I'd just hire a tutor for my children.

Preferably Swedish or French with a taste for older men.
 
2013-01-22 11:50:47 PM

sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?


Need more input. Does shooter have a single-shot shotgun, or an AR-15 with 30 round mags and a bump-fire stock making in basically a fully automatic weapon?
 
2013-01-22 11:56:38 PM
I can't believe people would be upset by this.

No, I take that back. I can totally believe it.

And the sad thing is that if the "other side" had proposed to put cops in school, positions would be reversed.

/backs away slowly
 
2013-01-22 11:59:45 PM

CADMonkey79: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

D) Panic Hardware on the doors


Good idea.Allows shooter to lock himself into first target area.

NightOwl2255: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

Need more input. Does shooter have a single-shot shotgun, or an AR-15 with 30 round mags and a bump-fire stock making in basically a fully automatic weapon?


Single-shot shot shotgun implies suicide by cop shooter.Ergo,he/she will bring only one shell.
 
2013-01-23 12:06:49 AM

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: BronyMedic: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: And how do I lie to children? Please be specific.

When you equate Marijuana and Ectasy with Methamphetamines and cocaine, and infer that one is a gateway drug to the other without explaining to children WHY untreated mental illness and chemical dependancy issues are the answer other than the occasional puff-puff-pass, yes. That is a lie.

It's not a realistic educational presentation. It's based on fearmongering and bandwagoning. And even the GAO admits it's a miserable failure.

You are barking up the wrong tree there my friend. In my experience every illegal drug, regardless of your personal view on them, are gateway drugs. Every one. You know why? Because who you have to buy them from. The drug isn't the gateway, the dealer is. When it is made legal, which I fully believe it eventually will, I don't have a problem with it.

I tell them shoplifting candy is a crime too. Just because you might not believe it is doesn't change that fact. The second that the legislature or courts decide something is not a crime I will stop enforcing it. Until then, I will.

Hell, these days are less about weed and more about staying away from mommy/daddy's medicine cabinet. That is where the problem is.


Alcohol and tobacco are the biggest gateway drugs, and they are perfectly legal.
 
2013-01-23 12:08:19 AM
I just read through the comments and apparently all I gleaned from them is that I want to smoke pot with an officer while in a hostage situation.

I'm doing it wrong.
 
2013-01-23 12:14:43 AM
I see the Sandy Ridge hoax has gone full derp.....

/carry on with the paranoia...
 
2013-01-23 12:15:29 AM
The problem is guns in schools, I guess the only way to fix that is more guns! There is no way this can back-fire.
On one hand I cringe, on the other I can't wait to see the public's response when a kid realizes if his first shot is a sneak attack on the cop he has another gun to use. Especially if he gets all chummy with the cop for the weeks prior, he will so have the element of surprise when he walks up behind the cop and pops him.

I repeat it's a horrible scenario and I don't want it to happen. But I think it eventually will, and I think we will have to re-evaluate if the solution to too many guns is more guns.
 
2013-01-23 12:17:42 AM

Kanabiis: I see the Sandy Ridge hoax has gone full derp.....

/carry on with the paranoia...



first off, what is Sandy Ridge?
Secondly, if you in fact meant Sandy hook... what in God's name are you talking about? You want to elaborate a little bit so when we tease you we can be very specific?
 
2013-01-23 12:22:41 AM

sweet-daddy-2: CADMonkey79: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

D) Panic Hardware on the doors

Good idea.Allows shooter to lock himself into first target area.

NightOwl2255: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

Need more input. Does shooter have a single-shot shotgun, or an AR-15 with 30 round mags and a bump-fire stock making in basically a fully automatic weapon?

Single-shot shot shotgun implies suicide by cop shooter.Ergo,he/she will bring only one shell.


You know how I know you know nothing about modern school design and building code?
 
2013-01-23 12:55:09 AM
I already see how this will play itself out: instead of taking the time to do some of that fancy-pants research and usin' big words; we'll just single out the kids who are different so that the school resource officer can treat them as potential criminals! A foolproof plan, much better than making sure bullied kids learn in a non-hostile environment, or kids who need mental health treatment get it! Who needs all that fancy talk and big words when we can just have more guns and more jails! It's for the children!!
 
2013-01-23 12:58:05 AM

CADMonkey79: sweet-daddy-2: CADMonkey79: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

D) Panic Hardware on the doors

Good idea.Allows shooter to lock himself into first target area.

NightOwl2255: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

Need more input. Does shooter have a single-shot shotgun, or an AR-15 with 30 round mags and a bump-fire stock making in basically a fully automatic weapon?

Single-shot shot shotgun implies suicide by cop shooter.Ergo,he/she will bring only one shell.

You know how I know you know nothing about modern school design and building code?


Are you saying all schools are equal in design and all building codes are identical?
Our small town's H.S. is the only school I've been in lately,because two of my granchildren are students there.The same H.S. I attended in the 60s and my parents prior to WWII.So yes,I have little knowledge of what you design and code.
 
2013-01-23 01:05:15 AM
What seems to have been lost in the kerfuffle is that this school HAD guards before, and they were eliminated due to budget cuts. Deputies were eliminated from elementary schools in 2005. This isn't just some paranoid helicopter mom wanting services for her precious snowflake; this was something the schools used to have and were removed because there wasn't enough money for them.

I don't know about Flagler County schools; but some schools do have a need--or the parents have a desire--for there to be a guard on duty. Whether or not he's any good, or will do the students any good if the shiat hits the fan, is something else entirely; but in this case, all the parent is doing is providing a service that HAD BEEN provided before, and possibly shaming the district into providing it again. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that.
 
2013-01-23 01:24:35 AM
unitedmonkee.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-23 01:33:05 AM

Gyrfalcon: What seems to have been lost in the kerfuffle is that this school HAD guards before, and they were eliminated due to budget cuts. Deputies were eliminated from elementary schools in 2005. This isn't just some paranoid helicopter mom wanting services for her precious snowflake; this was something the schools used to have and were removed because there wasn't enough money for them.

I don't know about Flagler County schools; but some schools do have a need--or the parents have a desire--for there to be a guard on duty. Whether or not he's any good, or will do the students any good if the shiat hits the fan, is something else entirely; but in this case, all the parent is doing is providing a service that HAD BEEN provided before, and possibly shaming the district into providing it again. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that.


Now if this instance I agree with you, especially taking into consideration the information you have added to the thread. However, in general I don't think the solution to too many guns at schools is more guns I think there are two big risks: a cop accidentally shooting a kid while trying to shoot someone other than the kid they mistakenly hit and also (as I mentioned above) it gives kids access to a gun they would not have otherwise had access to.
Both scenarios are exceedingly unlikely but they exist where as if there was not an armed person on campus they wouldn't. Now I really hope none of these things ever happens, but you can't deny that their possibility. Google tells me that there are about 78 million school children in the US. In the worst possible years maybe 50 will die do to gun violence in schools. Those are tiny, tiny odds and I don't think they warrant what I consider to be adding risk to the equation (as opposed to reducing risk, as these plans are presented as).
 
2013-01-23 01:33:36 AM

BronyMedic: Really?  The outrage is that a cop is being used to keep a school safe? What he was trained and taught to do in the first place?



This is common all over the United States. They're called School Resource Officers, and they do a lot more than police. They also mentor and intervene in at-risk kids before it comes to the point that they bring a rifle to school to try to achieve the School Shooting Tour high score.

I have no problem with an armed police officer/SRO in schools. I do have a problem with every tom, dick, and harry thinking they are  THE DECIDER (Trademark Pending)and believing that blaming the victims mixed with giving everyone a gun a la a cowboy movie is the solution to a problem which occurs once in a blue moon.

It's one thing to ask someone to shoot some faceless mugger who's trying to jerk them out of a car. It's another thing to ask a teacher who, ostensibly, is emotionally attached and knows he's shooting a child to pull the trigger on one of their class.

If a private citizen wants to cover the overtime for it, I have no problem with it. Churches and other organizations do the same thing all the time.


To Mentor (those overtime hours) and Intervene (in everything else.)

Move along citizen, etc.
 
2013-01-23 01:36:47 AM

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: BronyMedic: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: And how do I lie to children? Please be specific.

When you equate Marijuana and Ectasy with Methamphetamines and cocaine, and infer that one is a gateway drug to the other without explaining to children WHY untreated mental illness and chemical dependancy issues are the answer other than the occasional puff-puff-pass, yes. That is a lie.

It's not a realistic educational presentation. It's based on fearmongering and bandwagoning. And even the GAO admits it's a miserable failure.

You are barking up the wrong tree there my friend. In my experience every illegal drug, regardless of your personal view on them, are gateway drugs. Every one. You know why? Because who you have to buy them from. The drug isn't the gateway, the dealer is. When it is made legal, which I fully believe it eventually will, I don't have a problem with it.

I tell them shoplifting candy is a crime too. Just because you might not believe it is doesn't change that fact. The second that the legislature or courts decide something is not a crime I will stop enforcing it. Until then, I will.

Hell, these days are less about weed and more about staying away from mommy/daddy's medicine cabinet. That is where the problem is.


Actually, the problem is keeping *you* out of the medicine cabinent... And glove box. And trunk. And pants.

Mind your own goddamn business.

Thank you.
 
2013-01-23 01:47:36 AM

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: ? Because who you have to buy them from.


Does this just ignore all the states where you can get a doctor's note and go to a dispensary?

\I don't know if someone else already asked this
 
2013-01-23 02:03:16 AM

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: You are barking up the wrong tree there my friend. In my experience every illegal drug, regardless of your personal view on them, are gateway drugs. Every one. You know why? Because who you have to buy them from.


Who do you have to buy them from? Your friends? Heavier users who sell a bit on the side to fund their consumption? The kid who thinks he's Because "in my experience" that's where most people get their drugs most of the time. Most dealers don't operate a drug supermarket, and many won't touch drugs that they aren't already familiar with. If you want to try something different, especially something "harder", chances are you're going to have to do the leg work yourself.
 
2013-01-23 02:50:53 AM

Government Fromage: [mlkshk.com image 330x186]


I am also OK with this; maybe we would have enough law enforcement officers to protect all of our children full time, if the police were not so busy with the enforcement of prohibition.
 
2013-01-23 02:56:46 AM

Begoggle: What if the deputy is the psychopath with the gun?


As long as they defend the children of the school, I could care less if they think 9-11 was due to purple aliens.
 
2013-01-23 03:58:16 AM
I don't live in a particularly highly populated area and there are at least 30 schools within 50 miles of me. Local law enforcement could no more patrol all of them in any meaningful way than the man in the moon. They're too spread out and in order to really effectively patrol them you'd have to do it on foot.

The nature of these crimes means that you must either have a uninterrupted presence guarding the schools or completely changing the school system to be security centered, which would be difficult, but not impossible.
 
2013-01-23 04:16:55 AM
Let me know when a school within fifty miles of that one is shot up. I'll hold my breath.
 
2013-01-23 04:41:13 AM
What a country!

The rest of the developed world gasps at the fact that your society has its priorities so royally screwed that armed guards are needed at schools.
 
2013-01-23 05:05:03 AM

Pert: What a country!

The rest of the developed world gasps at the fact that your society has its priorities so royally screwed that armed guards are needed at schools.


However books that use science instead of religion to teach Biology are not needed. Because Jesus.
 
2013-01-23 06:32:50 AM

mrlewish: I call on all NRA members to support this by paying the wages of a cop in every public school.


I think that there should be two school: one for kids whose families have guns and one for those that do not.
 
2013-01-23 07:15:58 AM

modrogon: fusillade762: Since the NRA thinks this is such a good idea maybe they'd be willing to support a tax on guns and ammo in order to pay for it.

BWAHAHAHAA! I crack myself up sometimes.

There is a very good chance they might go for this tax. Now let's see if the left will allow deputy with guns in the schools.


.
I'm willing to pay a tax to protect my children from so-called-progressives wacked out on psychotropic drugs.
 
2013-01-23 08:08:45 AM

BronyMedic:
This is common all over the United States.


Really? I always thought the only places where schools regularly have armed guards were private schools in third world shiatholes with kidnapping problems.

/educated outside the US
 
2013-01-23 08:11:05 AM
I shot the sheriff, but I also hired the deputy!
 
2013-01-23 08:18:27 AM

ultraholland: you can get around all of this by sending your kids to police academy


No deal. Steve Guttenberg and Bobcat Goldwaithe are bad influences.
 
2013-01-23 08:57:49 AM

Shirley Ujest: I think that there should be two school: one for kids whose families have guns and one for those that do not.


Better still, why not have one school where anyone of any age - pupil, staff of visitor - may carry a gun at any time and a parallel school where guns are completely banned. Lets see how many parents think the first would be safer.
 
2013-01-23 09:12:15 AM

Target Builder: BronyMedic:
This is common all over the United States.

Really? I always thought the only places where schools regularly have armed guards were private schools in third world shiatholes with kidnapping problems.

/educated outside the US


Bad things happen to kids all the time, both inside and outside of the US.

I think the difference is other nations is the size of the middle class and how it responds to incidents.
Other nations don't have a media that harps on the details of every attack and then tries to tow the party line for disarmament in the same breath. Parents here are being told to fear everything and then do nothing.

Those with the money will refuse to sit back and ignore what they're being told is a major problem.
A larger middle and upper class (those who would be paying for security in the third world) means more schools can get some protection.

Problem now is that everyone thinks their kids need VIP level security, because they fear an assault that just isn't happening statistically. These same children are more likely to die in a bus accident on the way to school, but that's not how it sounds after the 24 hour news cycle gets going.

Now that the President has made this a front burner issue, there are parents who will accept nothing less than the a full gate&guard response.
A few mumblings about "resource officers" can't be expected to sate them.
 
2013-01-23 09:20:54 AM

sweet-daddy-2: CADMonkey79: sweet-daddy-2: CADMonkey79: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

D) Panic Hardware on the doors

Good idea.Allows shooter to lock himself into first target area.

NightOwl2255: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

Need more input. Does shooter have a single-shot shotgun, or an AR-15 with 30 round mags and a bump-fire stock making in basically a fully automatic weapon?

Single-shot shot shotgun implies suicide by cop shooter.Ergo,he/she will bring only one shell.

You know how I know you know nothing about modern school design and building code?

Are you saying all schools are equal in design and all building codes are identical?
Our small town's H.S. is the only school I've been in lately,because two of my granchildren are students there.The same H.S. I attended in the 60s and my parents prior to WWII.So yes,I have little knowledge of what you design and code.


Dead thread but what the hell I will respond.

First of all, most schools are maybe 500 ft from any one point to the the farthest point. The Pentagon, which is a massive building, is only 1400' wide. On the panic hardware point, you asserted that you can lock yourself in an area that has panic hardware on the door. There are some old doors out there with panic hardware that have no way to open them from the other side but those do not meet code and should have been flagged by a fire marshal years ago. Modern panic hardware on a school would have a master key access, and a security officer would have a copy of the key. So no a shooter would not be able to lock themselves in a "target" area as you asserted.

For years modern school design has been to only allow only a few entry points to a facility. A few security guards can could easily keep those points secure, all other entries/exits around the building allow you to get out but not in (unless you have a key) Obviously it is not completely infallible but what is?

Yeah, I know there are a lot of older schools out there that were not designed this way including the one you mentioned but maybe instead of building a new weight room for the football team they should get some grant money from the state to improve the design of their archaic facility.
 
d3
2013-01-23 11:06:40 AM
Yes, this worked out so well at Columbine.
 
2013-01-23 11:39:35 AM

CADMonkey79: sweet-daddy-2: CADMonkey79: sweet-daddy-2: CADMonkey79: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

D) Panic Hardware on the doors

Good idea.Allows shooter to lock himself into first target area.

NightOwl2255: sweet-daddy-2: When shooter enters school at point A. and DARE officers are at points B.and C. (1000ft.between each point),how many rounds are fired before B. and C. converge on A.?

Need more input. Does shooter have a single-shot shotgun, or an AR-15 with 30 round mags and a bump-fire stock making in basically a fully automatic weapon?

Single-shot shot shotgun implies suicide by cop shooter.Ergo,he/she will bring only one shell.

You know how I know you know nothing about modern school design and building code?

Are you saying all schools are equal in design and all building codes are identical?
Our small town's H.S. is the only school I've been in lately,because two of my granchildren are students there.The same H.S. I attended in the 60s and my parents prior to WWII.So yes,I have little knowledge of what you design and code.

Dead thread but what the hell I will respond.

First of all, most schools are maybe 500 ft from any one point to the the farthest point. The Pentagon, which is a massive building, is only 1400' wide. On the panic hardware point, you asserted that you can lock yourself in an area that has panic hardware on the door. There are some old doors out there with panic hardware that have no way to open them from the other side but those do not meet code and should have been flagged by a fire marshal years ago. Modern panic hardware on a school would have a master key access, and a security officer would have a copy of the key. So no a shooter would not be able to lock themselves in a "target" area as you asserted.

For years modern school design has been to only allow only a few entry points to a fa ...


I didn't really expect a reply at this late date and had no intention of responding until your last sentence came up.While our school has been updated with some new security details the irony is that we have a brand new weight room for the football team.This is Texas after all and HS football rules.Plus it is across the street from the main campus and has open access for players to come and go.There are 5 or 6 out-buildings spread over approx. 10 acres(football field and parking lot included)Hard to keep secure .
 
2013-01-23 04:25:15 PM

d3: Yes, this worked out so well at Columbine.


As did the AWB that was in place at the time.
 
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