If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.
Duplicate of another approved link: 7547609


(AZ Family)   Just like the rest of us, Phil Mickelson is feeling the squeeze of recent tax hikes and is rethinking plans to buy a major league baseball team   (azfamily.com) divider line 69
    More: Sad, Phil Mickelson, Rancho Santa Fe, HSBC Champions, Farmers Insurance Open  
•       •       •

1875 clicks; Favorite

69 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-01-22 10:37:31 AM  

kronicfeld: craig328: So yeah, 2/3 = 66.66% percent and that's close to 62-63...so I did this nifty thing called "rounding". Surely, you've heard of it. It was all the rage in second grade math classes. Sorry if that caused you to tighten the chin strap on your helmet. It's just numbers and people making responsible decisions. Ask a grown up about it sometime.

Oh, so you're just taking his whining as gospel. I see.


It's as valid as dismissing it for no reason whatsoever (what you seem to be doing). I'll go ahead and say that a man who has a home and has founded and raised a family there would require more than a token insult to his wallet to prompt him to leave that home. You may envy his position in life and his wealth but he operates under the same financial rules as the rest of us. If he decides that having over half his income confiscated is too onerous, he has the option to do something about it.
 
2013-01-22 10:45:17 AM  

craig328: kronicfeld: craig328: So yeah, 2/3 = 66.66% percent and that's close to 62-63...so I did this nifty thing called "rounding". Surely, you've heard of it. It was all the rage in second grade math classes. Sorry if that caused you to tighten the chin strap on your helmet. It's just numbers and people making responsible decisions. Ask a grown up about it sometime.

Oh, so you're just taking his whining as gospel. I see.

It's as valid as dismissing it for no reason whatsoever (what you seem to be doing). I'll go ahead and say that a man who has a home and has founded and raised a family there would require more than a token insult to his wallet to prompt him to leave that home. You may envy his position in life and his wealth but he operates under the same financial rules as the rest of us. If he decides that having over half his income confiscated is too onerous, he has the option to do something about it.


Where is he going to pay less?
 
2013-01-22 10:46:25 AM  

Space Monkey 39: I understand the Phil is annoyed about his tax bill. But he can afford anything he wants. His is paid by his fans who can not afford anything they want, so him biatching publicly about money in any way is going to be perceived as arrogant by a lot of people. It is ultimately self defeating, since being an asshole will lose you fans. Making an ostentatious display of moving out of the country ( which btw has the one of the lowest taxes in the developed world ) will just add to that effect.

Tax policy aside Phil is being an asshole.


I'll suggest your judgement is based on what the government is leaving Phil at the end of the day and comparing it to your own income. His fans aren't just in California BTW. There are lots of people who follow Phil that live somewhere other than California so I doubt this has any impact on his fan base.

Here's a fun drill: take your own income (if you have one) and then multiply that by .4. That's yours. Now, live your current lifestyle on that amount. I'll go ahead and guess you can't because hardly any of us could live our current lives keeping only 40% of what we make. Your issue is with his lifestyle and envy over his wealth. He plays golf and plays it well. He wins tournaments and endorses products. That's how he made his base money. You and I lack those skills so we make less. Life isn't fair like that. That's just the way it is. Some make more and some make less. He makes more so he pays more. He was probably okay when he was paying a way higher tax rate than you or I. It's just that everyone has a limit and, apparently, Phil's is 62-63% of his income.
 
2013-01-22 10:51:08 AM  

Space Monkey 39: Where is he going to pay less?


Well, lessee, some folks up thread compared Phil to Tiger Woods. Know where Tiger's permanent residence is? Florida. The land of no state income tax.

That'd be one place (amongst a great many) where he can move to alleviate some of the tax burden.
 
2013-01-22 10:54:07 AM  

Mutated-Snoopy: kronicfeld: dsmith42: I think you counted his whole income for the SS tax. That tax ends after $110k (for 2012).

azpenguin: If he's paying 60+% in taxes, then he needs to either fire his accountant or hire one. Social Security phases out after a certain income level, so that doesn't affect much. Then the tax rate increases are on marginal rates, not on all income. He might be biatching about that now, but those marginal rates used to be much, much higher.

And let's not forget that he can deduct his state and local taxes on his federal return.

I didn't include ANY deductions whatsoever. I just saw the 65% quote felt the need to double check that. Top marginal rate in CA is 10.3%. Top Federal rate is 35%. Those two combined is still almost 20 points lower than what he's saying and those are the two big ones. So my math is this:

CA taxes
1%x7124 + 2%x9,766 + 4%x9,767 + 6%x10,348 + 8%x9,761 + 9.3%x953,234 + 10.3%x60E6 = $6,270,710 (98% of that from the top bracket)

Federal income taxes
10%x12400 + 15%x34,950 +25%x74,950 + 28%x75,750 + 33%x190,300 + 35%x60611650 = $21,323,307 (99.5% of that from the top bracket)

Medicare tax (0.9% on everything over 200k)
(61E6 - 200,000) x 0.9% = $547,200

Social Security
12.4% (self employed rate) on the first 113,700 = $14,099

Total - $28,155,315 out of $61,000,000.

While I don't match my initial calculation (off by 200k), it's still about 46%.

If you deduct the state taxes from from the Federal it drops down to $25,970,265, or about 42.6%.

Like I said, I'm not an accountant and I'm not a tax expert. I'm just trying to remember what the line items are from my paycheck and seeing how they hit him. I don't know how his business structure works and what that does for/against him. I'm just trying to see how he's getting to 2/3rds of his income going to gubmint.


He said he is just paying 65% of his income in taxes, he did not say he is paying a 65% income tax. When you add up all the other taxes he pays on a daily basis (sales tax, gas tax, etc..) as well as long term taxes he needs to pay (taxes on investments, Inheritance tax to his estate, death tax, capital gains taxes) you can easily see a 65% of a person's income eventually being paid in taxes. Not sure if that's what Phil was getting at, but I can see his accountant saying that to him.
 
2013-01-22 10:58:25 AM  

Mutated-Snoopy: kronicfeld: dsmith42: I think you counted his whole income for the SS tax. That tax ends after $110k (for 2012).

azpenguin: If he's paying 60+% in taxes, then he needs to either fire his accountant or hire one. Social Security phases out after a certain income level, so that doesn't affect much. Then the tax rate increases are on marginal rates, not on all income. He might be biatching about that now, but those marginal rates used to be much, much higher.

And let's not forget that he can deduct his state and local taxes on his federal return.

I didn't include ANY deductions whatsoever. I just saw the 65% quote felt the need to double check that. Top marginal rate in CA is 10.3%. Top Federal rate is 35%. Those two combined is still almost 20 points lower than what he's saying and those are the two big ones. So my math is this:

CA taxes
1%x7124 + 2%x9,766 + 4%x9,767 + 6%x10,348 + 8%x9,761 + 9.3%x953,234 + 10.3%x60E6 = $6,270,710 (98% of that from the top bracket)

Federal income taxes
10%x12400 + 15%x34,950 +25%x74,950 + 28%x75,750 + 33%x190,300 + 35%x60611650 = $21,323,307 (99.5% of that from the top bracket)

Medicare tax (0.9% on everything over 200k)
(61E6 - 200,000) x 0.9% = $547,200

Social Security
12.4% (self employed rate) on the first 113,700 = $14,099

Total - $28,155,315 out of $61,000,000.

While I don't match my initial calculation (off by 200k), it's still about 46%.

If you deduct the state taxes from from the Federal it drops down to $25,970,265, or about 42.6%.

Like I said, I'm not an accountant and I'm not a tax expert. I'm just trying to remember what the line items are from my paycheck and seeing how they hit him. I don't know how his business structure works and what that does for/against him. I'm just trying to see how he's getting to 2/3rds of his income going to gubmint.


He's likely also including the increased capital gains tax and California property taxes in that. For example, California property taxes are paid on 100% of the cash value (basically market value) of the property. Where I live by comparison (Georgia) property taxes are based on 40% of the market value. Right off the bat, the same valued property in both state would have the California owner paying 250% of what the Georgia owner would.
 
2013-01-22 11:00:45 AM  
WTF is it with all the enraged jealousy most FARKERS have with people that are rich? I'd love to see a few rich people step up and say "FARK YOUUUuuuuuuu! I got mine!.

guess what dickbags, if they weren't rich enough to pay the taxes, you and I would be paying more.
 
2013-01-22 11:07:07 AM  

craig328: Space Monkey 39: I understand the Phil is annoyed about his tax bill.
.....
His fans aren't just in California BTW. There are lots of people who follow Phil that live somewhere other than California so I doubt this has any impact on his fan base.

.......


People will stop being his fan because of his assholeness rather than his location. It is possible that golf fans don't find the comment offensive. But if I were one of his sponsors I might look to put my money with a different golfer instead. Phil is entitled to his wealth and he can move if if he wants to pay less tax. He just needs to stop biatching about it because it makes him look like an asshole and it is self defeating since he makes his money partially due to his image.

Also as I live in Canada I am not too far off of 60% tax rate (32% federal, 15% VAT, plus UI and SS) . I could move to the US to get a lower tax rate ( and probably a higher salary), but if I do move it won't be because of tax rates.
Are there places nicer than California that have lower tax?
 
2013-01-22 11:13:41 AM  

WTFDYW: WTF is it with all the enraged jealousy most FARKERS have with people that are rich? I'd love to see a few rich people step up and say "FARK YOUUUuuuuuuu! I got mine!.

guess what dickbags, if they weren't rich enough to pay the taxes, you and I would be paying more.


I'd love to see someone who earns their money through sponsorships do that.
 
2013-01-22 11:17:34 AM  

Space Monkey 39: People will stop being his fan because of his assholeness rather than his location. It is possible that golf fans don't find the comment offensive. But if I were one of his sponsors I might look to put my money with a different golfer instead. Phil is entitled to his wealth and he can move if if he wants to pay less tax. He just needs to stop biatching about it because it makes him look like an asshole and it is self defeating since he makes his money partially due to his image.


Yes, because complaining about taxes is a real turn off to most Americans.  Most of us here have no frame of reference for how to deal with that kind of personal income, and clearly this is a guy that has some serious long-term investment ambitions to create some generational wealth for his family.  And sure, it may not be that much relative to the rest of his earnings, but a few million dollars is still a lot of money and people who don't watch their money carefully often find out they don't have as much as they once did or should have.  Look at all the multimillionaire athletes who are flat broke a few years out of the league. I don't understand why people are getting their knickers in such a twist because Phil looked and said, "Man, I sure would do feel like I'm paying a lot more in taxes than I could and maybe I should look to maximize my take-home income."  He's doing the same thing almost all of us do.
 
2013-01-22 11:20:52 AM  
I feel for him.
 
2013-01-22 11:23:29 AM  
In his defense, his charitable giving is epic.

Link
 
2013-01-22 11:26:41 AM  

Nabb1: Space Monkey 39: .....

He just needs to stop biatching about it because it makes him look like an asshole and it is self defeating since he makes his money partially due to his image.

Yes, because complaining about taxes is a real turn off to most Americans.


Complaining about taxes is ok when you aren't super rich by most peoples standards. Again I don't fault him for feeling that way, whining about it publicly will just upset a lot of people (you can see them above in this thread). If he does it enough his sponsors will reconsider, find some other guy smart enough not to gripe publicly about a money problem that alomst everyone would love to have.
 
2013-01-22 11:29:34 AM  

Space Monkey 39: Nabb1: Space Monkey 39: .....

He just needs to stop biatching about it because it makes him look like an asshole and it is self defeating since he makes his money partially due to his image.

Yes, because complaining about taxes is a real turn off to most Americans.

Complaining about taxes is ok when you aren't super rich by most peoples standards. Again I don't fault him for feeling that way, whining about it publicly will just upset a lot of people (you can see them above in this thread). If he does it enough his sponsors will reconsider, find some other guy smart enough not to gripe publicly about a money problem that alomst everyone would love to have.


Most of his sponsors sell products aimed at people who have a good bit of money themselves and probably agree with Phil.  I doubt too many people wailing in this thread are suddenly going to change their mind about which top-shelf driver they are buying based on these comments.
 
2013-01-22 11:42:00 AM  

Nabb1: Space Monkey 39: Nabb1: Space Monkey 39: .....

He just needs to stop biatching about it because it makes him look like an asshole and it is self defeating since he makes his money partially due to his image.

Yes, because complaining about taxes is a real turn off to most Americans.

Complaining about taxes is ok when you aren't super rich by most peoples standards. Again I don't fault him for feeling that way, whining about it publicly will just upset a lot of people (you can see them above in this thread). If he does it enough his sponsors will reconsider, find some other guy smart enough not to gripe publicly about a money problem that alomst everyone would love to have.

Most of his sponsors sell products aimed at people who have a good bit of money themselves and probably agree with Phil.  I doubt too many people wailing in this thread are suddenly going to change their mind about which top-shelf driver they are buying based on these comments.


Good point, I was thinking about companies like Nike or Gillette.

I just went to google to find out who his sponsors are, and it turns out that he has apologized. I wonder if his sponsors put him up to it, or if the public pressure made him feel the need to apologize.
 
2013-01-22 11:50:14 AM  

craig328: So, jacking up tax rates on the wealthy means they'll just up and move someplace that DOESN'T rob them? Wow, didn't see that com...no, wait. Yeah, pretty much everyone who isn't an effing retard saw that one coming.


Well, the most ambitious proposal anyone had in the last several years was to raise tax rates to what they were in the 90s. Remember all those rich people fleeing the country in the 90s? Me neither.
 
2013-01-22 11:54:02 AM  

craig328: Mutated-Snoopy: kronicfeld: dsmith42: ...snipped...

While I don't match my initial calculation (off by 200k), it's still about 46%.

If you deduct the state taxes from from the Federal it drops down to $25,970,265, or about 42.6%.

Like I said, I'm not an accountant and I'm not a tax expert. I'm just trying to remember what the line items are from my paycheck and seeing how they hit him. I don't know how his business structure works and what that does for/against him. I'm just trying to see how he's getting to 2/3rds of his income going to gubmint.

He's likely also including the increased capital gains tax and California property taxes in that. For example, California property taxes are paid on 100% of the cash value (basically market value) of the property. Where I live by comparison (Georgia) property taxes are based on 40% of the market value. Right off the bat, the same valued property in both state would have the California owner paying 250% of what the Georgia owner would.

wearetheworld
...(sales tax, gas tax, etc..) as well as long term taxes he needs to pay (taxes on investments, Inheritance tax to his estate, death tax, capital gains taxes...



Most expensive property listed for sale on Zillow in Rancho Santa Fe, California is listed at 16.5 Million. Assessor has the property at 4,123,403. Taxes paid last year were 43,114. The next few properties in the 8 digit range are assessed higher - at around 50% of the asking price and taxes are about 1% of assessed value. So, if Phil lives in a 50 million dollar home, he's looking at $250,000 in property taxes.

Let's imagine Phil spends about 10% of his income on stuff subject to local sales taxes (8%). That's $488,000 per year.

Gas tax. Assume 8 mpg and 25k miles per year (is that high enough?)- 3125 gallons at 5 pre-tax-dollars a gallon. That's 38 cents per gallon state and federal + 2.25% state sales. So (3125 x 0.38) + (3125 x 5 x 2.25%) = $1,539 per year

Capital gains: Worst case, it's taxed as regular income. Best case it's taxed at 18% or 20%. I don't think the 61 million income from above includes investments. But the taxes are on income, not assets, so if anything this would bring his burden AS A PERCENT OF INCOME down or keep it the same.

Inheritance/death tax. He may go Brewster's Millions or donate all that to some group. Either way, unless he was planning on dying this year, I don't think he should include it in his tax burden.

I'm not going to get into titling fees on his cars. That's cost of ownership in my opinion. And I'm getting lazy.

I can't find evidence of local income tax.

That's 28.2 million + 0.25 million property + 0.5 million in sales + 0.001539 million in gas taxes. 28.95 million. Round it to 30 million.

Still not at 50%.

/I'm not arguing what the right level of taxation is
//Or how righteous his statements are
///I'm just checking the farking numbers. Numbers have farking meanings and are specific.
////As Tom Slick said, it probably relates to his business operations
 
2013-01-22 11:58:07 AM  
I hate when that happens.
 
2013-01-22 12:15:11 PM  
Hey Phil, STFU and be glad you didn't make those millions a few decades ago.

i939.photobucket.com
 
Displayed 19 of 69 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report