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(Washington Post)   The Obama administration is creating clear rules to follow when targeting a specific individual for death...except for CIA drones. Whatever, they can do what they want   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 97
    More: Asinine, CIA, obama, Obama administration, legal principles, John O. Brennan, counter-terrorism, Pakistani Taliban, Jeh Johnson  
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3350 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jan 2013 at 10:34 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-21 01:05:06 PM
Here's the story of one of the "militants" killed by the US as told by a journalist who had chanced to meet him when he came to protest drone killings of civilians.

dl.dropbox.com

The attentive, unassuming young man sitting near me in the picture is Tariq Aziz.

He was 16 when we met last October, just a year older than my own teenage son, although with his neatly trimmed beard and traditional shalwar kameez he looked more like the grown men alongside him.

Tariq had travelled many hours to the relative safety of Islamabad from his home in Waziristan, a rugged Pakistani tribal area on the border with Afghanistan.

He was there to join a protest about the plague of American 'drones' - the remote-controlled aircraft that have left a bloody trail of death and fury among the innocent villagers who struggle to earn a living in the unforgiving mountainous region.

I was there to distribute digital cameras so that the people from Waziristan could record the damage and death caused by the drones, as part of a campaign to prove that innocent civilians are dying.

Tariq, a keen amateur photographer, was given one of the cameras before he left to return home.

Three days later he was dead. Like his cousin, who had died in April 2010 and whose identity card he clutched when we met, he was blown to pieces by a drone strike. The appalling irony of how his young life ended will stay with me for ever.

He had travelled for eight hours by bus from Waziristan to attend a conference to discuss the covert use of drones by the CIA, bringing with him his cousin's ID card, retrieved from rubble after he was killed by a Hellfire missile fired by a drone near his home.

Tariq was one of the youngest in the group of men, some blind, others missing limbs, who had descended on the capital from Waziristan, armed with gruesome photographs of women and children blown to pieces among debris and Hellfire missile parts stamped with serial numbers and the US flag.

It was three days later that I received the news of Tariq's death, in an email entitled 'Recent victim of drone folly' from one of the conference organisers. Tariq had been killed, it informed me, alongside another of his cousins, 12-year-old Waheed, as they drove near their home. Tariq's new camera was destroyed in the blast.

According to Tariq's family, at about noon on the day he died he had been driving with his younger cousin Waheed to pick up an aunt after her wedding.

A few hundred yards from his aunt's house, one homed in and struck Tariq's car. Both boys were dead, their bodies badly burned, when people arrived from the village. The rescue party had held back at first, as drones frequently strike again at those who come to rescue the injured, in what have become known as 'Samaritan attacks'.


Let's see if the Obama administration will claim this child was a "militant"

In response to the death of Tariq, an anonymous US official was quoted in a piece carried on ABC News saying that the car was targeted by the CIA because 'the two people inside it were militants'.

Well, of course they did.
 
2013-01-21 01:09:52 PM

Champion of the Sun: It's kinda weird that only a tiny minority of the populace has a problem with this. Not even 10% of us can get upset about the CIA using flying death robots with no oversight. I guess we're either incredibly stupid, or desensitized to killing. Probably both


You can jump up and down, write a letter to the editor, get a petition going online, write to your Reps in congress, talk to your neighbors, promote the cause on t-shirts and bumper stickers, you name it Jack. doesn't matter ten cents. Our government and their kill squad alphabet agencies do whatever they please, always have, always will. And they do so on your taxes.
 
2013-01-21 01:10:15 PM

SixOfDLoC: I have this exact exchange with derptards on my local news channel's FB feed every day, but I had never managed to put it as clearly and eloquently as you just did.


Bu-bu-but Bush! Eloquent indeed.

Evil is evil. It doesn't make it better if one person is doing it or another. If you were really "bullied" into supporting it before then you should be mad as hell now instead of continuing to make excuses for them.

And save yourself the trouble of responding with an accusation that I was ok with it under Bush, because I have actually been against this shiat from day 1. I don't change my beliefs based on the party in power. You guys are pathetic partisan little worms.
 
2013-01-21 01:14:01 PM

BigNumber12: Champion of the Sun: It's kinda weird that only a tiny minority of the populace has a problem with this. Not even 10% of us can get upset about the CIA using flying death robots with no oversight. I guess we're either incredibly stupid, or desensitized to killing. Probably both

You forgot "blindly partisan" or "afraid of being called a bigot."


Don't forget some mouth breather saying "BOTH SIDES ARE BAD SO VOTE REPUBLICAN!"
 
2013-01-21 01:25:39 PM

BullBearMS: Here's the story of one of the "militants" killed by the US as told by a journalist who had chanced to meet him when he came to protest drone killings of civilians.


People who put themselves into war zones, even if they're innocent, might get killed. News at----oh, no news. It's common sense. Same argument as me walking down a dark alley in a mini-skirt in a bad part of town. I might not deserve to get raped, I might not be "asking for it," but I should be aware that I've put myself into a position where I might be in danger.

And telling the CIA that "it's not fair" I don't think carries much weight. If he knows that our government is corrupt and kills civilians, did he expect to get some special treatment because HE is a civilian?

I hate cops. For that reason, I'm NOT going to go start a public protest about how stupid and brutal most cops are, because I know that's a good way to get myself killed, even if, by law, I haven't done anything wrong.  That's not fair, either. Could it be that life, and governments, are not fair?
 
2013-01-21 01:25:47 PM

Champion of the Sun: halfof33: WhoopAssWayne: I'm sure all the fark liberals screaming for a Bush war crimes trial will just happily add Obama to the list, right? Right? Yeah, that's what we thought.

Some guy was crowing last night about Bush being a "war criminal" and how he couldn't visit certain countries without fear of getting arrested, and I pointed out that many countries aren't particularly happy with The Administration's use of hunter/killer drones, and how is that working out for you.

/hypocritical slurpers gonna slurp

I know you're both just trolls, and I do think there's a lot of illegality in the way Obama does things. But this is a lot different than manufacturing evidence in order to invade a sovereign country. Can you not see the difference? Wait, don't answer that. If Obama starts assassinating people based on lies he created and fed to the media, while relying on those media statements as proof of his assertions, then we can talk. Still shouldn't kill citizens without due process.


The bolded part is troublesome but no more troublesome than when US Navy bombers take out a family having a wedding with a bunch of insurgents. They're all just as dead; if nothing else using drones cuts down on the collateral damage here. Also, there aren't autonomous Terminators out there, drones are remotely controlled by a human being- no AI is making the decision, it's just that you don't have a US citizen putting himself into harm's way; only a sentimental boob obsessed with making war "fair" thinks that's a bad idea.

If you have any objection in particular to drones but not to the rest of US foreign policy you most likely do have ulterior motives to object to US foreign policy under Obama.
 
2013-01-21 01:30:57 PM

cryinoutloud: People who put themselves into war zones, even if they're innocent, might get killed.


They didn't put themselves into a war zone. We made their home a war zone. I would have thought that somebody who complains about being poor so often would have some sympathy for the people who don't have the means to just uproot and move somewhere safer.

cryinoutloud: And telling the CIA that "it's not fair" I don't think carries much weight. If he knows that our government is corrupt and kills civilians, did he expect to get some special treatment because HE is a civilian?

I hate cops. For that reason, I'm NOT going to go start a public protest about how stupid and brutal most cops are, because I know that's a good way to get myself killed, even if, by law, I haven't done anything wrong.  That's not fair, either. Could it be that life, and governments, are not fair?


So life sucks, STFU and deal with it. Quite the patriot you are.
 
2013-01-21 01:42:45 PM

umad: cryinoutloud: People who put themselves into war zones, even if they're innocent, might get killed.

They didn't put themselves into a war zone. We made their home a war zone.


Hey, now. That slut was just asking to be raped. She shouldn't have been dressed like that.
 
2013-01-21 01:43:57 PM

cryinoutloud: People who put themselves into war zones


They didn't land on Sherwood Forest. Sherwood Forest landed on them.
 
2013-01-21 01:55:13 PM

umad: So life sucks, STFU and deal with it. Quite the patriot you are.


And you're a dick on every subject, either trolling or you're just a natural asshole. Why would I care what you think?

BullBearMS: umad: cryinoutloud: People who put themselves into war zones, even if they're innocent, might get killed.
They didn't put themselves into a war zone. We made their home a war zone.
Hey, now. That slut was just asking to be raped. She shouldn't have been dressed like that.


I already said that, Bull Bear. shiat happens, and you have to learn how to protect yourself from it. I know this is your pet subject, and I don't think we should be dropping bombs on innocent people either, but somehow the precedent was set, and now here we are.

I think we should get the hell out of all those countries that we've somehow decided are our territory to kill whoever we want. In the meantime, I wouldn't go anywhere near them, because the CIA doesn't give a fark what I think, and obviously they don't care if they kill innocent people.
 
2013-01-21 02:07:17 PM

cryinoutloud: umad: So life sucks, STFU and deal with it. Quite the patriot you are.

And you're a dick on every subject, either trolling or you're just a natural asshole.


You're right. I'm an asshole troll because I don't think we should be bombing the shiat out of innocents. I'm a real monster.

Why would I care what you think?

Because I'm smarter than you.
 
2013-01-21 02:07:40 PM
Don't we cause fewer civilian deaths with drones than a land invasion?

Even the WWII nukes in Japan resulted in capitulation without a horrific land invasion, thus resulting in fewer civilian deaths. Numbers are relative. Still grim, but relative. You're measuring against a baseline and that baseline is not zero.
 
2013-01-21 02:09:11 PM

ZAZ: The interesting part of the story is the CIA does a better job when not targeting a specific individual for death.


"Hey, I heard a new one the other day. How do we know that the CIA had nothing to do with JFK's assassination?"

"I give up, how do we know for sure?"

"The guy's dead, isn't he?"
 
2013-01-21 02:12:19 PM

goatleggedfellow: Don't we cause fewer civilian deaths with drones than a land invasion?

Even the WWII nukes in Japan resulted in capitulation without a horrific land invasion, thus resulting in fewer civilian deaths. Numbers are relative. Still grim, but relative. You're measuring against a baseline and that baseline is not zero.


Japan and Germany declared war against us. These countries didn't.
 
2013-01-21 02:24:49 PM
A year? That's about what, another 10,000 Al Qaeda members created?
 
2013-01-21 02:25:34 PM
Number one rule of Obama death club.

Never talk bad about Obama.

It makes him angry, you won't like him when he's angry.

Also, don't get old or be poor.
 
2013-01-21 02:35:10 PM

BullBearMS: cryinoutloud: /just a graph, I have no opinion about it.

Gee, I wonder why so many of those killed are called "militants"?

ndeed, newspaper revelations last week about the "kill list" showed the Obama administration defines a militant as any military-age male in the strike zone when its drone attacks.


Well, how do you think they reduced civilian casualties to practically nothing?

/hint: it wasn't by refusing to kill people that would have been called "civilians" if we had a Republican president
//I'm just glad we're finally getting something done, now that the media is completely on board with the military instead of fighting them every step of the way
///no Republican administration could have killed bin Laden, the media would have warned him well in advance of any strike
 
2013-01-21 03:02:36 PM

Tatterdemalian: Well, how do you think they reduced civilian casualties to practically nothing?

/hint: it wasn't by refusing to kill people that would have been called "civilians" if we had a Republican president
//I'm just glad we're finally getting something done, now that the media is completely on board with the military instead of fighting them every step of the way
///no Republican administration could have killed bin Laden, the media would have warned him well in advance of any strike



This is why you're green.
 
2013-01-21 04:17:12 PM
Too bad we didn't have the ability to liquify enemy assets a while a go. It could have done some good back then.

cdn.breitbart.com
 
2013-01-21 04:24:11 PM

cryinoutloud: the CIA doesn't give a fark what I think, and obviously they don't care if they kill innocent people.


The CIA doesn't need to care, since the entire point of TFA is that Obama has officially exempted them from following any sort of rules.
 
2013-01-21 04:53:34 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Champion of the Sun: It's kinda weird that only a tiny minority of the populace has a problem with this. Not even 10% of us can get upset about the CIA using flying death robots with no oversight. I guess we're either incredibly stupid, or desensitized to killing. Probably both

/No, it's more the fact that the terrorists hide in buildings with civilians in them. Or churches. You can't expect to bomb and not have civilian casualties. I'm sure (and ive seen alot of those vids) that they try their hardest to not lob a hellfire into someone's house that is not involved, but ya, it's war. It sucks, but it's much better than the carpet bombing of WWII.


WWII was war.

Each drone kill creates more recruits for the terrorists and revolutionaries.

Each son or daughter killed spawns a dozen vows of vengeance.
 
2013-01-21 04:59:46 PM

BullBearMS: Here's the story of one of the "militants" killed by the US as told by a journalist who had chanced to meet him when he came to protest drone killings of civilians.



The attentive, unassuming young man sitting near me in the picture is Tariq Aziz.

He was 16 when we met last October, just a year older than my own teenage son, although with his neatly trimmed beard and traditional shalwar kameez he looked more like the grown men alongside him.

Tariq had travelled many hours to the relative safety of Islamabad from his home in Waziristan, a rugged Pakistani tribal area on the border with Afghanistan.

He was there to join a protest about the plague of American 'drones' - the remote-controlled aircraft that have left a bloody trail of death and fury among the innocent villagers who struggle to earn a living in the unforgiving mountainous region.

I was there to distribute digital cameras so that the people from Waziristan could record the damage and death caused by the drones, as part of a campaign to prove that innocent civilians are dying.

Tariq, a keen amateur photographer, was given one of the cameras before he left to return home.

Three days later he was dead. Like his cousin, who had died in April 2010 and whose identity card he clutched when we met, he was blown to pieces by a drone strike. The appalling irony of how his young life ended will stay with me for ever.

He had travelled for eight hours by bus from Waziristan to attend a conference to discuss the covert use of drones by the CIA, bringing with him his cousin's ID card, retrieved from rubble after he was killed by a Hellfire missile fired by a drone near his home.

Tariq was one of the youngest in the group of men, some blind, others missing limbs, who had descended on the capital from Waziristan, armed with gruesome photographs of women and children blown to pieces among debris and Hellfire missile parts stamped with serial numbers and the US flag.

It was three days later that I received the news of Tariq's death, in an email entitled 'Recent victim of drone folly' from one of the conference organisers. Tariq had been killed, it informed me, alongside another of his cousins, 12-year-old Waheed, as they drove near their home. Tariq's new camera was destroyed in the blast.

According to Tariq's family, at about noon on the day he died he had been driving with his younger cousin Waheed to pick up an aunt after her wedding.

A few hundred yards from his aunt's house, one homed in and struck Tariq's car. Both boys were dead, their bodies badly burned, when people arrived from the village. The rescue party had held back at first, as drones frequently strike again at those who come to rescue the injured, in what have become known as 'Samaritan attacks'.

Let's see if the Obama administration will claim this child was a "militant"

In response to the death of Tariq, an anonymous US official was quoted in a piece carried on ABC News saying that the car was targeted by the CIA because 'the two people inside it were militants'.

Well, of course they did.


Americans will be in utter shock after Al Qada/Iran/Russia/whoever starts making thier own drones and using them in the US.
 
2013-01-21 05:05:35 PM
When I was a child I wondered how the Germans could have allowed things to get so out of hand. I read up on the subject and read how many people saw what was happening but were helpless to stop it. I always thought that if I was in that situation,I could do something.

But here we are, and its happening here, and there is nothing I can do about it. Our scapegoats are the Muslims instead of the Jews, and our blitz is with drones instead of tanks. We have our gestapo and our SS.

We are completely paralyzed and it will get out of hand again. People in furnaces and worse.
 
2013-01-21 05:11:28 PM

umad: goatleggedfellow: Don't we cause fewer civilian deaths with drones than a land invasion?

Even the WWII nukes in Japan resulted in capitulation without a horrific land invasion, thus resulting in fewer civilian deaths. Numbers are relative. Still grim, but relative. You're measuring against a baseline and that baseline is not zero.

Japan and Germany declared war against us. These countries didn't.


Funny how al Qaeda doesn't care about that and a lot of nations who'd like to mess with the US get around a lot of issues by offering material aid to these groups while playing the whole "what, you think we care enough to secure our borders like a competent government would? Screw you Westerner". Funny how you're also a useful idiot and "idealists"/ideologues such as yourself embarrass anyone with legit objections to US foreign policy.

You're lame even for bringing that up at this point; Congress already authorized these actions btw.
 
2013-01-21 05:11:52 PM
They will assassinate you with drones, bankrupt the country by bailing out banks and starting wars with lies, and sell guns to Mexican Drug Cartels...but you think the gov't is taking small methodical steps to erode your right to own guns? Paranoid gun nut
 
2013-01-21 05:13:17 PM

Boloxor the Insipid: When I was a child I wondered how the Germans could have allowed things to get so out of hand. I read up on the subject and read how many people saw what was happening but were helpless to stop it. I always thought that if I was in that situation,I could do something.


Starts off reasonable...

But here we are, and its happening here, and there is nothing I can do about it. Our scapegoats are the Muslims instead of the Jews, and our blitz is with drones instead of tanks. We have our gestapo and our SS.

We are completely paralyzed and it will get out of hand again. People in furnaces and worse.


This is where you fall into LaLaLand. Did you notice the pasting the GOP took in the last election? Don't go BSABSVR here buddy
 
2013-01-21 05:20:20 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: You're lame even for bringing that up at this point; Congress already authorized these actions btw.


This is not the least bit true.

Let's post this again:

Senator Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat, has sent an extraordinary letter to top White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan, President Obama's choice to lead the CIA. The letter poses questions about executive power, like "How much evidence does the President need to determine that a particular American can be lawfully killed?" and "Does the President have to provide individual Americans with the opportunity to surrender before killing them?" We're used to such questions from organizations like the ACLU, journalists like Charlie Savage, and various concerned citizens. And though rules that confer death should always be transparent, the fact that they're being kept even from Wyden is especially indefensible.

The body he sits on, the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, is charged with providing "vigilant legislative oversight over the intelligence activities of the United States," to ensure "that they conform with the Constitution and U.S. law." There is no one in America more justified in demanding to know the official legal rationale behind actions like targeted killings. Obama isn't just keeping this information from the American people. He isn't just hiding his legal reasoning from the U.S. Congress. He is stonewalling one of 15 senators that federal law establishes as the most important check on secret abuses by the CIA.

The Obama Administration's failure to provide that information alone ought to be a scandal. It is certainly more scandalous than President Clinton's sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

And there's even more stonewalling.

Wyden isn't just being denied information about the criteria for the extrajudicial killings of Americans. Team Obama won't even tell him in how many countries the United States is killing people!

As Wyden puts it:
I have been asking for over a year for the complete list of countries in which the intelligence community has used its lethal counterterrorism authorities. To my surprise and dismay, the intelligence community has declined to provide me with the complete list. In my judgment, every member of the Senate Intelligence Committee should know (or be able to find out) all of the countries where United States intelligence agencies have killed or attempted to kill people. the fact that this request was denied reflects poorly on the Obama Administration's commitment to cooperation with Congressional oversight. So, please ensure that the full list of countries is provided to me, along with other members of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Not only has Congress not approved these actions, even those in Congress on the Senate Intelligence Committee have been illegally refused information on what's even happening.
 
2013-01-21 05:53:27 PM

mcreadyblue: Americans will be in utter shock after Al Qada/Iran/Russia/whoever starts making thier own drones and using them in the US.


it's terrorism when they do it.
 
2013-01-21 06:03:43 PM
Move along subby, no actual liberals on this site.

Obama supporters yes, but not actual liberals.
 
2013-01-21 06:12:18 PM

USP .45: Move along subby, no actual liberals on this site.

Obama supporters yes, but not actual liberals.


There are plenty of liberals on this site. Sure, we're vastly outnumbered, but how many conservatives spoke out against Bush while he was in office?
 
2013-01-21 06:20:40 PM
CIA told Obama...

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-21 06:40:05 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: umad: goatleggedfellow: Don't we cause fewer civilian deaths with drones than a land invasion?

Even the WWII nukes in Japan resulted in capitulation without a horrific land invasion, thus resulting in fewer civilian deaths. Numbers are relative. Still grim, but relative. You're measuring against a baseline and that baseline is not zero.

Japan and Germany declared war against us. These countries didn't.

Funny how al Qaeda doesn't care about that and a lot of nations who'd like to mess with the US get around a lot of issues by offering material aid to these groups while playing the whole "what, you think we care enough to secure our borders like a competent government would? Screw you Westerner". Funny how you're also a useful idiot and "idealists"/ideologues such as yourself embarrass anyone with legit objections to US foreign policy.

You're lame even for bringing that up at this point; Congress already authorized these actions btw.


Pretty much THIS.

If the country of interest can't keep this in check, what else should we do?
 
2013-01-21 06:48:28 PM
[quote]LouDobbsAwaaaay [TotalFark]
2013-01-21 10:55:42 AM

GameSprocket: stirfrybry: It's not bad when liberals do it. Just get over it. Republican bad, liberal good. It's simple as that. If you have trouble with it, too bad, you're probably racist anyway.

Just gonna phone it in, huh?

Today is not a good day for people like him. He's doing the best he can.[/quote]
your two posts prove him right.

You two clowns are more upset at him calling dear leader on it than you are about dear leader killing people.
 
2013-01-21 08:05:13 PM

umad: SixOfDLoC: I have this exact exchange with derptards on my local news channel's FB feed every day, but I had never managed to put it as clearly and eloquently as you just did.

Bu-bu-but Bush! Eloquent indeed.

Evil is evil. It doesn't make it better if one person is doing it or another. If you were really "bullied" into supporting it before then you should be mad as hell now instead of continuing to make excuses for them.

And save yourself the trouble of responding with an accusation that I was ok with it under Bush, because I have actually been against this shiat from day 1. I don't change my beliefs based on the party in power. You guys are pathetic partisan little worms.


Well, like a lot of the rest of the country you were awfully farking quiet about it. Now, all of a sudden, you're not. But we're somehow partisan worms. How does that work?

You also fail at reading comprehension since you obviously didn't notice the part where I said that no, this is not moral or ethical or (in the case of the "double-tap" drone strategy) legal. But liberals were Evil Cowards in 2003 and conservatives were doing the "unified front against the enemy" bullshiat back when Mr. Yoo and company decided on the legal opinion of "the President can do whatever." If you felt otherwise, we certainly had no way of telling we had common ground there. We could've used the support!

You want to tell me you're the conservative with an actual conscience? Fine, good. Then accept that Bush still has a lot to answer for and "But Bush!" doesn't dismiss or forgive any of it any more than it makes what Obama is doing right- but precedent has been set and so whichever party holds the presidency will be playing goalie from now on. The best way to stop this kind of thing is before it starts, and you could barely round up a thimble full of "liberals" to oppose this back then, let alone conservatives. But now we have to deal with it, and if Americans are going to stand up to their leaders together and make it clear that this is unacceptable- because that is what it will take -we're going to have to give up on the partisan politics team-sports garbage, and don't you even dare try to tell me that the Democrats are just as bad at that as you are. Get your farking house in order, scourge it of the lunatics, the cowards, the bullies, and the apologists and elect some people who are interested in governance rather than corporate welfare so we can fix this country. I'll do my best on that from my end.

But actually, you can tell me whatever you want, because whenever I see anyone use the tired "life isn't fair" defense for anything, I block them. It's nothing more than a good excuse to avoid self-examination or addressing a problem by pretending there isn't one. It's saying "other people have to suffer because I suffered," which is not a rational or virtuous justication for anything. You're very good at finding ways to dismiss other people's concerns.
 
2013-01-21 08:56:39 PM
Anonymous Bosch SmartestFunniest 2013-01-21 08:05:13 PM


umad: SixOfDLoC: I have this exact exchange with derptards on my local news channel's FB feed every day, but I had never managed to put it as clearly and eloquently as you just did.

Bu-bu-but Bush! Eloquent indeed.

Evil is evil. It doesn't make it better if one person is doing it or another. If you were really "bullied" into supporting it before then you should be mad as hell now instead of continuing to make excuses for them.

And save yourself the trouble of responding with an accusation that I was ok with it under Bush, because I have actually been against this shiat from day 1. I don't change my beliefs based on the party in power. You guys are pathetic partisan little worms.

Well, like a lot of the rest of the country you were awfully ......excuses excuses excuses.....blah blah blah....a rational or virtuous justication for anything. You're very good at finding ways to dismiss other people's concerns.


You are just proving his point you twat. You really are a partisan worm. How you convince yoruself that you are any different from GOPers should be scientifically studied. It really is fascinating how both sides has convinced themselves that they are 100% right on every issue. My take is that if you call yourself a Dem or a Republican it's because you litterally dont know a farking thing about the issues. Therefore, you pick a side knowing that no matter how farking wrong you are, you have a group of people that are wrong with you, and better yet, you dont even have to explain your position because your "news" pundits give you your talking points. It's a matter of choosing to be included in a group at the cost of blind obedience.
 
2013-01-21 09:00:34 PM

Gdalescrboz: Anonymous Bosch SmartestFunniest 2013-01-21 08:05:13 PM


umad: SixOfDLoC: I have this exact exchange with derptards on my local news channel's FB feed every day, but I had never managed to put it as clearly and eloquently as you just did.

Bu-bu-but Bush! Eloquent indeed.

Evil is evil. It doesn't make it better if one person is doing it or another. If you were really "bullied" into supporting it before then you should be mad as hell now instead of continuing to make excuses for them.

And save yourself the trouble of responding with an accusation that I was ok with it under Bush, because I have actually been against this shiat from day 1. I don't change my beliefs based on the party in power. You guys are pathetic partisan little worms.

Well, like a lot of the rest of the country you were awfully ......excuses excuses excuses.....blah blah blah....a rational or virtuous justication for anything. You're very good at finding ways to dismiss other people's concerns.

You are just proving his point you twat. You really are a partisan worm. How you convince yoruself that you are any different from GOPers should be scientifically studied. It really is fascinating how both sides has convinced themselves that they are 100% right on every issue. My take is that if you call yourself a Dem or a Republican it's because you litterally dont know a farking thing about the issues. Therefore, you pick a side knowing that no matter how farking wrong you are, you have a group of people that are wrong with you, and better yet, you dont even have to explain your position because your "news" pundits give you your talking points. It's a matter of choosing to be included in a group at the cost of blind obedience.


Nice alt.

/*plonk*
 
2013-01-21 09:19:39 PM
But for the record? I'm registered Independent and only brought myself to vote for Obama because the alternative was facing the possibility of President Mitt Romney. It was not a decision I made lightly.

Voting for Obama, that is. I was never going to vote for Romney. Romney was not significantly different from Obama on defense, and would surely have been merrily killing people with robots as long as it let him sign checks to defense contractors. He actively supported policies I considered dangerous to the health of the country. On other issues of importance to me he was actively opposed to positions I view as just and correct, or beholden to fringe far-right lunatics who were. Obama has broken a lot of promises related to how we wage war, but the alternative was unacceptable and our current political system ensures that Romney was the only alternative.

The Democrats are largely useless whores, but they are not actively trying to prevent people I know and care about from marrying or voting based on their race, sexuality or tax bracket. They are not pushing for supply-side economics and austerity when we can look elsewhere in the world and see the failure of those policies in action right now. They are not all lying about the solvency of Social Security though a disturbing number are, but it is not the culmination of their decades-long drive to dismantle the program. They don't say "life isn't fair" when you talk about people starving, losing their homes, or dying because they're unable to afford health care- yes, Mitt, it happens.

I'm not a Democrat, but if the Democrats get their shiat together, I could be. I will never be a Republican unless the Republican party metamorphoses into something I would find unrecognizeable.

If you can say that both sides are equally bad with a straight face, you are brain damaged, misinformed, or disingenuous. Though I'm not ruling out all three.
 
2013-01-21 09:38:56 PM
Anonymous

Oh thats cool, two people clown on partisans so they must be the same person. There couldnt possibly be more than 1 person who doesnt call themself a Dem/Republican. Playing the "i vote for the lesser of two evils" is a cop out for having standards.
 
2013-01-21 10:27:06 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: But I've been told by Republicans that all of our problems are caused by black and brown people.


As much as you really want this to be true, it's still not.
 
2013-01-22 12:49:50 AM

Anonymous Bosch: If you can say that both sides are equally bad with a straight face, you are brain damaged, misinformed, or disingenuous. Though I'm not ruling out all three.


The only people going on about both sides being equally bad are the morons like you who want to keep bringing Bush into it. Bush isn't President. He can't change a god damned thing. Obama could put a stop to this, but he has no reason to since his good little idiot supporters will keep supporting him regardless.
 
2013-01-22 02:40:48 AM

Mose: Among the subjects covered in the playbook are ... the legal principles that govern when U.S. citizens can be targeted overseas

I have a very hard time with this one in particular...


Over here they just pay off your coworkers to scopolamine you.
 
2013-01-22 05:46:44 AM

PchopSandwiches: Can we start using drone strikes in the US then? Much more effective and quicker than our current justice system.

Let's start by nuking Adam Lanza from orbit.


Nice thought, but he's already dead. Waste of material.
 
2013-01-22 08:30:42 AM

Abacus9: PchopSandwiches: Can we start using drone strikes in the US then? Much more effective and quicker than our current justice system.

Let's start by nuking Adam Lanza from orbit.

Nice thought, but he's already dead. Waste of material.


Can we somehow use drones to defile his grave and destroy everything ue cared about?

As for the rest of this, I can't bring myself to shed a tear for any of the filth killed by drones. We let them be until 2001 and we all know how that worked out. Now we kill them where we find them and I hope every single Islamist on the planet goes to bed afraid.
 
2013-01-22 09:42:32 AM
What's the over/ under on the first drone strike on a pot smoker under the rationalization that they are "providing material support to teh terrirists"?
 
2013-01-22 01:21:42 PM

JesusJuice: As for the rest of this, I can't bring myself to shed a tear for any of the filth killed by drones. We let them be until 2001 and we all know how that worked out. Now we kill them where we find them and I hope every single Islamist on the planet goes to bed afraid.


Dick Cheney? Is that you?

Good thinking. Too bad there'll be more and more "Islamists" with every drone strike. It's a good thing that ideas like "retribution" and "resistance" aren't important in that culture. I'm sure that every last one of them is immobilized with fear.
 
2013-01-22 03:36:16 PM

BigNumber12: JesusJuice: As for the rest of this, I can't bring myself to shed a tear for any of the filth killed by drones. We let them be until 2001 and we all know how that worked out. Now we kill them where we find them and I hope every single Islamist on the planet goes to bed afraid.

Dick Cheney? Is that you?

Good thinking. Too bad there'll be more and more "Islamists" with every drone strike. It's a good thing that ideas like "retribution" and "resistance" aren't important in that culture. I'm sure that every last one of them is immobilized with fear.


We have the capability yo kill all of them, they can't say the same regarding us.
 
2013-01-23 04:42:48 PM

JesusJuice: We have the capability yo


Word.
 
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