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(Washington Post)   The Obama administration is creating clear rules to follow when targeting a specific individual for death...except for CIA drones. Whatever, they can do what they want   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 97
    More: Asinine, CIA, obama, Obama administration, legal principles, John O. Brennan, counter-terrorism, Pakistani Taliban, Jeh Johnson  
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3350 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jan 2013 at 10:34 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-21 10:37:22 AM
So they will be a Hard Target that is Marked for Death that will Die Hard?
 
2013-01-21 10:37:25 AM
Is that supposed to be "Whateva! They can do what they want"

Whatever.

Won't help Vincent Foster.
 
2013-01-21 10:39:03 AM
Anyone who dates his daughters?
 
2013-01-21 10:39:19 AM
Spittle-flecked manifestos about U.N. black helicopters is so 1996. It's all about drones now.
 
2013-01-21 10:40:11 AM
Subby's lack of faith in dear leader is disturbing...
 
2013-01-21 10:41:01 AM
As far as the CIA is concerned, Barack Obama is just another subject and has the same potential as any Afghani or any other civilian.

The CIA does whatever it wants, to whomever it wants, whenever the hell it wants.

Because there is nobody in the world that can tell them no.
 
2013-01-21 10:44:11 AM
It's not bad when liberals do it. Just get over it. Republican bad, liberal good. It's simple as that. If you have trouble with it, too bad, you're probably racist anyway.
 
2013-01-21 10:45:27 AM
"I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge... I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return."  --- Frank Church
 
2013-01-21 10:45:32 AM
So they're making up their own rules so there's no impropriety in their own extrajudicial actions.

Sounds legit.
 
2013-01-21 10:49:14 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So they will be a Hard Target that is Marked for Death that will Die Hard?


Only if the Op-Center determines that the targets represent a Clear and Present Danger will these Rules of Engagement apply.
 
2013-01-21 10:54:40 AM

stirfrybry: It's not bad when liberals do it. Just get over it. Republican bad, liberal good. It's simple as that. If you have trouble with it, too bad, you're probably racist anyway.


Just gonna phone it in, huh?
 
2013-01-21 10:55:42 AM

GameSprocket: stirfrybry: It's not bad when liberals do it. Just get over it. Republican bad, liberal good. It's simple as that. If you have trouble with it, too bad, you're probably racist anyway.

Just gonna phone it in, huh?


Today is not a good day for people like him. He's doing the best he can.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-21 10:57:27 AM
The interesting part of the story is the CIA does a better job when not targeting a specific individual for death.
 
2013-01-21 11:03:17 AM

stirfrybry: It's not bad when liberals do it. Just get over it. Republican bad, liberal good. It's simple as that. If you have trouble with it, too bad, you're probably racist anyway.


Yeah we hate that white bastard Biden
 
2013-01-21 11:10:34 AM
It's kinda weird that only a tiny minority of the populace has a problem with this. Not even 10% of us can get upset about the CIA using flying death robots with no oversight. I guess we're either incredibly stupid, or desensitized to killing. Probably both
 
2013-01-21 11:11:27 AM
I'm sure all the fark liberals screaming for a Bush war crimes trial will just happily add Obama to the list, right? Right? Yeah, that's what we thought.
 
2013-01-21 11:16:26 AM

WhoopAssWayne: I'm sure all the fark liberals screaming for a Bush war crimes trial will just happily add Obama to the list, right? Right? Yeah, that's what we thought.


Some guy was crowing last night about Bush being a "war criminal" and how he couldn't visit certain countries without fear of getting arrested, and I pointed out that many countries aren't particularly happy with The Administration's use of hunter/killer drones, and how is that working out for you.

/hypocritical slurpers gonna slurp
 
2013-01-21 11:19:22 AM

Champion of the Sun: It's kinda weird that only a tiny minority of the populace has a problem with this. Not even 10% of us can get upset about the CIA using flying death robots with no oversight. I guess we're either incredibly stupid, or desensitized to killing. Probably both


You forgot "blindly partisan" or "afraid of being called a bigot."
 
2013-01-21 11:20:11 AM

halfof33: WhoopAssWayne: I'm sure all the fark liberals screaming for a Bush war crimes trial will just happily add Obama to the list, right? Right? Yeah, that's what we thought.

Some guy was crowing last night about Bush being a "war criminal" and how he couldn't visit certain countries without fear of getting arrested, and I pointed out that many countries aren't particularly happy with The Administration's use of hunter/killer drones, and how is that working out for you.

/hypocritical slurpers gonna slurp


I know you're both just trolls, and I do think there's a lot of illegality in the way Obama does things. But this is a lot different than manufacturing evidence in order to invade a sovereign country. Can you not see the difference? Wait, don't answer that. If Obama starts assassinating people based on lies he created and fed to the media, while relying on those media statements as proof of his assertions, then we can talk. Still shouldn't kill citizens without due process.
 
2013-01-21 11:21:21 AM

stirfrybry: It's not bad when liberals do it. Just get over it. Republican bad, liberal good. It's simple as that. If you have trouble with it, too bad, you're probably racist anyway.



I don't like it when it's American citizens that are targeted, which of course was done, but then again if you're in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. hanging out with known enemies of the US you pretty much deserve  your fate.

Screw you guys as Cartman would say.
 
2013-01-21 11:22:14 AM

BigNumber12: You forgot "blindly partisan" or "afraid of being called a bigot."


Seems that 50% of this country has zero problem with being called a bigot. Seems they invite it even. And even though there are a lot of people who are blindly partisan for both sides, just shocked that so few people care about it.

/Remember, the last president to go against the CIA was JFK
 
2013-01-21 11:25:48 AM

jmr61: I don't like it when it's American citizens that are targeted, which of course was done, but then again if you're in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. hanging out with known enemies of the US you pretty much deserve your fate.


My problem with that is, how do we know these aren't just weekend warriors playing tough. We have a ton of these guys in the US. A bunch of people up in McVeigh's neck of the woods play revolutionary in the woods every weekend. How do we know this isn't the same thing? Seems there should be some sort of process involved, other than doing whatever we want. And association shouldn't be enough to kill someone without more anyways. Seems we've killed a hundred terrorists for every one attack. Disproportionate at least.
 
2013-01-21 11:30:09 AM
Can we start using drone strikes in the US then? Much more effective and quicker than our current justice system.

Let's start by nuking Adam Lanza from orbit.
 
2013-01-21 11:31:37 AM

Champion of the Sun: I know you're both just trolls, and I do think there's a lot of illegality in the way Obama does things. But this is a lot different than manufacturing evidence in order to invade a sovereign country. Can you not see the difference? Wait, don't answer that. If Obama starts assassinating people based on lies he created and fed to the media, while relying on those media statements as proof of his assertions, then we can talk. Still shouldn't kill citizens without due process.


I like it when a guy who has been here a month starts right out with the ad hominems.

So it is not a problem that the Administration is assassinating people in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia?

Ok then.
 
2013-01-21 11:34:04 AM

Champion of the Sun: jmr61: I don't like it when it's American citizens that are targeted, which of course was done, but then again if you're in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. hanging out with known enemies of the US you pretty much deserve your fate.

My problem with that is, how do we know these aren't just weekend warriors playing tough. We have a ton of these guys in the US. A bunch of people up in McVeigh's neck of the woods play revolutionary in the woods every weekend. How do we know this isn't the same thing? Seems there should be some sort of process involved, other than doing whatever we want. And association shouldn't be enough to kill someone without more anyways. Seems we've killed a hundred terrorists for every one attack. Disproportionate at least.


And it gets easier each time it's used. Easier to authorize, and easier to push the boundaries of what's palatable. "Just think of what a pain it would be to go and arrest this guy. Besides, this is pretty similar to the XYZ Case, and nobody was too upset about that one..."
 
2013-01-21 11:36:39 AM
For the people biatching about how it's "okay when Obama does it":

No, not really. But as stated above there's a farkton more blame for Bush here. We, as a country, wouldn't be doing this if a certain War On An Abstract Concept didn't get started on the first place. But that would've required an atmosphere in 2001-3 wherein actual debate could've occurred, instead of the swarm of chest-thumping, flag-waving idiots we had terrifying politicians into rubber-stamping shiat like the Patriot Act.

My father had the gall to tell one of his co-workers that he thought the war in Iraq was a bad idea, and the response he got was that he obviously just wanted to see Americans die.

Should Obama or the CIA be doing this? Is it moral, ethical or legal? fark NO. But you conservative assholes let the genie out of the bottle, and people tend not to give power back, as you might have noticed from the umpteenth extension of warrantless wiretapping recently. You didn't just condone torture and murder and the destruction of civil liberty, you cheered for it. And some of you are still out there cheering for it as long as Obama doesn't get the credit. You ceded any pretense of moral authority the United States of America ever had because you got scared.

You destroyed this country, and you're whining like little biatches now that it looks like you might have to pay the price too. fark off.
 
2013-01-21 11:37:49 AM

PchopSandwiches: Can we start using drone strikes in the US then? Much more effective and quicker than our current justice system.

Let's start by nuking Adam Lanza from orbit.


FTFM

/mondays...
 
2013-01-21 11:44:23 AM

Anonymous Bosch: For the people biatching about how it's "okay when Obama does it":


Actually, we were pointing out the hypocrisy of people saying it is only bad when Bush did it.

Small but significant difference, and one that there was no way in hell was going to get in the way of your little rant, right sport?

protip: Obama's not ACTUALLY using the drones in Iraq, so... yeah. Bush bad, we get it. Thanks for posting.
 
2013-01-21 11:45:51 AM

halfof33: I like it when a guy who has been here a month starts right out with the ad hominems.

So it is not a problem that the Administration is assassinating people in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia?

Ok then.


Listen brah, this is my fourth or fifth login here. Been around a long time. (Never used them for trolling/sockpuppetting) And it doesn't take much reading to see that you a troll. I was just laughing at the fake liberal you guys were making up. I said these are illegal actions, just that comparing targeted drone strikes and invasion of a sovereign country based on lies you created are so wildly different, that comparing them would be idiotic. There's a chance Obama could be a war criminal, anyone that isn't a partisan knows Bush is one. And you're the kind of piece of excrement that Anonymous Bosch was talking about. You don't care that these drone strikes are occurring, you only care that Obama is the one okaying them.
 
2013-01-21 11:52:01 AM

stirfrybry: It's not bad when liberals do it. Just get over it. Republican bad, liberal good. It's simple as that. If you have trouble with it, too bad, you're probably racist anyway.


Can you imagine the reaction if the TSA scanners were put into use under Bush? I guess under Obama it's ok to be a pervert. Actually, it was ok for Bill Clinton to rape a woman and for his administration to cover it up. Read George StayOnTopOfThis' book about the incident. But Bill raped the woman who deserved it.
 
2013-01-21 11:52:10 AM
And that's the way it should be.
The Silent Wings of Death, need to keep people on their toes guessing.
 
2013-01-21 11:54:34 AM

Anonymous Bosch: For the people biatching about how it's "okay when Obama does it":

No, not really. But as stated above there's a farkton more blame for Bush here. We, as a country, wouldn't be doing this if a certain War On An Abstract Concept didn't get started on the first place. But that would've required an atmosphere in 2001-3 wherein actual debate could've occurred, instead of the swarm of chest-thumping, flag-waving idiots we had terrifying politicians into rubber-stamping shiat like the Patriot Act.

My father had the gall to tell one of his co-workers that he thought the war in Iraq was a bad idea, and the response he got was that he obviously just wanted to see Americans die.

Should Obama or the CIA be doing this? Is it moral, ethical or legal? fark NO. But you conservative assholes let the genie out of the bottle, and people tend not to give power back, as you might have noticed from the umpteenth extension of warrantless wiretapping recently. You didn't just condone torture and murder and the destruction of civil liberty, you cheered for it. And some of you are still out there cheering for it as long as Obama doesn't get the credit. You ceded any pretense of moral authority the United States of America ever had because you got scared..


This, exactly. As long as the guy in the White House has an (R) after his name, all of things they're complaining about now are just fine and anyone who dares sugges otherwise must Hate America. And of course, they're determined that pointing out that anything they're complaining about started while their guy held the reigns means you support it under the current administration. I have this exact exchange with derptards on my local news channel's FB feed every day, but I had never managed to put it as clearly and eloquently as you just did.

/Hat's Off
//Totallly going to paraphrase this the next time some idiot whines about drones.
 
2013-01-21 11:55:09 AM
Obama has presided over a massive expansion of secret surveillance of American citizens by the National Security Agency. He has launched a ferocious and unprecedented crackdown on whistleblowers. He has made more government documents classified than any previous president. He has broken his promise to close down the controversial Guantánamo Bay prison and pressed on with prosecutions via secretive military tribunals, rather than civilian courts. He has preserved CIA renditions. He has tried to grab broad new powers on what defines a terrorist or a terrorist supporter and what can be done with them, often without recourse to legal process.

It has used the Espionage Act - an obscure first world war anti-spy law - six times. That is more such uses in three years than all previous presidents combined. Cases include John Kiriakou, a CIA agent who leaked details of waterboarding, and Thomas Drake, who revealed the inflated costs of an NSA data collection project that had been contracted out. "We did not see this coming. Obama has led the most brutal crackdown on whistleblowers ever," Radack said.

Yet the development fits in with a growing level of secrecy in government under Obama. Last week a report by the Information Security Oversight Office revealed 2011 had seen US officials create more than 92m classified documents: the most ever and 16m more than the year before.

"We are seeing the reversal of the proper flow of information between the government and the governed. It is probably the fundamental civil liberties issue of our time," said Elizabeth Goitein, a national security expert at the Brennan Centre for Justice. "The national security establishment is getting bigger and bigger."

One astonishing example of this lies high in the mountain deserts of Utah. This is the innocuously named Utah Data Centre being built for the NSA near a tiny town called Bluffdale. When completed next year, the heavily fortified $2bn building, which is self-sufficient with its own power plant, will be five times the size of the US Capitol in Washington DC. It will house gigantic servers that will store vast amounts of data from ordinary Americans that will be sifted and mined for intelligence clues. It will cover everything from phone calls to emails to credit card receipts.

Aaron David Miller, a long-term Middle East policy adviser to both Republican and Democratic administrations, delivered a damning verdict in a recent issue of Foreign Policy magazine. He wrote bluntly: "Barack Obama has become George W Bush on steroids."
 
2013-01-21 12:04:43 PM

Champion of the Sun: You really only care because it's Obama doing it.


I am pretty sure I already said the opposite.

In fact, what i said at the beginning of this thread is the same people who are calling Bush a War Criminal should be calling Obama one as well.

/to clarify for the hypocrites: I don't think either is a War Criminal. Hell, I think they should have fired off the drones in Benghazi.
 
2013-01-21 12:07:13 PM
Hmmmm, it appears one cannot point out where people on fark called George Bush a war criminal yesterday.

Calling someone a "piece of excrement"? That's a go.

rolls eyes.....
 
2013-01-21 12:10:00 PM
The so-called "signature strikes", where we go out and shoot missiles at people because they're Muslims of military age gathered in a group or something like that, has to be one of the scariest precedents of all the "innovations" of the War on Terrorism.

Surprise, surprise, the mainstream media doesn't agree. At least not for the next four years.
 
2013-01-21 12:10:38 PM

halfof33: Hmmmm, it appears one cannot point out where people on fark called George Bush a war criminal yesterday.

Calling someone a "piece of excrement"? That's a go.

rolls eyes.....


Cry more.
 
2013-01-21 12:12:35 PM

Champion of the Sun: halfof33: Hmmmm, it appears one cannot point out where people on fark called George Bush a war criminal yesterday.

Calling someone a "piece of excrement"? That's a go.

rolls eyes.....

Cry more.


Quality post. hee, hee!
 
2013-01-21 12:15:26 PM

Champion of the Sun: It's kinda weird that only a tiny minority of the populace has a problem with this. Not even 10% of us can get upset about the CIA using flying death robots with no oversight. I guess we're either incredibly stupid, or desensitized to killing. Probably both


/No, it's more the fact that the terrorists hide in buildings with civilians in them. Or churches. You can't expect to bomb and not have civilian casualties. I'm sure (and ive seen alot of those vids) that they try their hardest to not lob a hellfire into someone's house that is not involved, but ya, it's war. It sucks, but it's much better than the carpet bombing of WWII.
 
2013-01-21 12:18:55 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Champion of the Sun: It's kinda weird that only a tiny minority of the populace has a problem with this. Not even 10% of us can get upset about the CIA using flying death robots with no oversight. I guess we're either incredibly stupid, or desensitized to killing. Probably both

/No, it's more the fact that the terrorists hide in buildings with civilians in them. Or churches. You can't expect to bomb and not have civilian casualties. I'm sure (and ive seen alot of those vids) that they try their hardest to not lob a hellfire into someone's house that is not involved, but ya, it's war. It sucks, but it's much better than the carpet bombing of WWII.


That's a completely different argument than the one we're having. But I don't think we're at war with the many countries in which we use predator drone strikes.

Even if we hit zero innocent civilians, we haven't shown even by circumstantial evidence that the people we are killing are actually terrorists. So who's actually a civilian? A secret oversight committee subject to no one tells you so.
 
2013-01-21 12:20:40 PM
Whatever, they can do what they want

lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-01-21 12:27:14 PM
But I've been told by Republicans that all of our problems are caused by black and brown people.
 
2013-01-21 12:28:46 PM
 
2013-01-21 12:36:26 PM
counterterrorism.newamerica.net

/just a graph, I have no opinion about it.

Anonymous Bosch: You destroyed this country, and you're whining like little biatches now that it looks like you might have to pay the price too. fark off.


You da man, now the man in yellow.
 
2013-01-21 12:40:05 PM
Among the subjects covered in the playbook are ... the legal principles that govern when U.S. citizens can be targeted overseas

I have a very hard time with this one in particular...
 
2013-01-21 12:40:21 PM

cryinoutloud: Anonymous Bosch: You destroyed this country, and you're whining like little biatches now that it looks like you might have to pay the price too. fark off.

You da man, now the man in yellow.


Is yellow the one you use for not making sense? Because that shiat should be canary.

Pay the price too? You mean the Obama administration might be accused of being war criminals too? Is that what you mean by "paying the price"?
 
2013-01-21 12:41:19 PM
5 years in, they are getting around to making rules.
 
2013-01-21 12:43:51 PM

cryinoutloud: counterterrorism.newamerica.net

/just a graph, I have no opinion about it.



What's the story behind this? I tend towards "America, Fark Yeah," but this graph seems pretty suspect.
 
2013-01-21 12:47:24 PM
 
2013-01-21 12:59:36 PM
Forward with Hope & Change!

I'm so glad Obama bombed Libya. Otherwise, we would have terrible problems in Mali right now.
 
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