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(Wisconsin State Journal)   "I don't mind paying my debt to society and being responsible for my actions. When you can have one beer and be arrested for drunk driving, it's ridiculous." says the man with 7 drunk driving convictions   (host.madison.com ) divider line 131
    More: Dumbass, Janesville, State Journal, state Department of Transportation, UW-Madison, regional news, convictions, society, debts  
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5654 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jan 2013 at 10:22 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-21 02:08:29 PM  

Maul555: Who are all these people with home breathalyzers that monitor their guests BAC? I never want to know you people or ever consume alcohol around you people... This is just bizzare. I guess it is a natural product of a police state. Random breath tests? You people should move...


The same people who can get sued if they let you leave their house drunk if you get in an accident.
 
2013-01-21 02:14:11 PM  

andyofne: DrPainMD: What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law due to an arbitrary level of some substance in his blood.

I don't think you know what that word means.

ar·bi·trar·y/ˈärbiˌtrerē/AdjectiveBased on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.(of power or a ruling body) Unrestrained and autocratic in the use of authority.
I'm fairly certain that a system was used to determine what constitutes driving under the influence.

If it was truly arbitrary, they could simply choose any number at any time and say "aha! .0001!!! you are under the influence".


Ok. Try this.

What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law while causing no harm whatsover to property, life, or limb.
 
2013-01-21 02:26:30 PM  

Egoy3k: Maul555: Who are all these people with home breathalyzers that monitor their guests BAC? I never want to know you people or ever consume alcohol around you people... This is just bizzare. I guess it is a natural product of a police state. Random breath tests? You people should move...

The same people who can get sued if they let you leave their house drunk if you get in an accident.


Don't let anyone drink at you're house if you're concerned about that...and get better friends.
 
2013-01-21 02:31:45 PM  
What have we learned from this thread (and others similar to it:)

A BAC of .15 was originally derived by scientists at which most people were impaired. This science is somewhat fallacious because "blood alcohol content" is derived from too many variables, guesses and suppositions that it can NEVER indicate someone's actual state of impairment; it is just a wholly arbitrary baseline that cannot really be applied to most specific individuals. Also, "BAC" readings taken orally, via lung expiration, adds a whole magnitude of errors & suppositions that further make it impossible to use to measure a person's actual level of impairment. Swirl some mouthwash, spit it out, and go directly to jail.

Eventually that limit was lowered to .12, to be more inclusive of the general population.

But MADD and greedy lawyers weren't done. It was lowered to .10, then .08, and some places even lower, despite having no scientific or legal reason for doing so: it was no longer about safety, but about money.

DUI is one of the few crimes in which your Constitutional rights are thrown out the window. Fifth Amendment right to not testify against yourself (i.e. give a breath or blood sample)? Nope, you don't get it. Right to face and question your accuser (the basic accuracy and science behind the tests themselves)? Nope, every successful defense is further castrated by the law to eliminate that "loophole." And so on.

If it's OK for people to champion their right to shoot other people to death with whatever and however many rounds they choose, then it's OK for people to have a beer or two (but not six or eight.) Because that AIN'T drunk.
 
2013-01-21 02:31:54 PM  

John Buck 41: What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law while causing no harm whatsover to property, life, or limb.


You sound just like my ex-husband! He thought the exact same thing. Then he crashed his car into a tree and got a DUI. Then later he flipped a different car into a family, sending them all into the ICU. His current wife has to pay for that one. He's probably driven drunk 1000 other times, and THEY all turned out fine, so why should he have expected that those times wouldn't?
 
2013-01-21 02:38:34 PM  

feffer: John Buck 41: What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law while causing no harm whatsover to property, life, or limb.

You sound just like my ex-husband! He thought the exact same thing. Then he crashed his car into a tree and got a DUI. Then later he flipped a different car into a family, sending them all into the ICU. His current wife has to pay for that one. He's probably driven drunk 1000 other times, and THEY all turned out fine, so why should he have expected that those times wouldn't?


And as I have said before in OUI threads, I hope he got the book thrown at him for the incidents you mentioned. OTOH, did anything bad ever happen the other 1000 times?

I don't condone drunk driving. I condone not being arrested when nothing bad happens while one is behind the wheel. A driver farks up? Too bad, (s)he's screwed.
 
2013-01-21 02:44:34 PM  

Maul555: Who are all these people with home breathalyzers that monitor their guests BAC? I never want to know you people or ever consume alcohol around you people... This is just bizzare. I guess it is a natural product of a police state. Random breath tests? You people should move...


I wish I had one. The only reasons I don't are that they're not cheap and not necessarily accurate - and I believe you can't smoke, eat or drink anything for 15 minutes before testing and that would be a pain
 
2013-01-21 02:51:08 PM  

T.M.S.: Fast forward 2 years later, and I"m back on the road and all is good. I went to my brothers house to have a drink with him, and I knew it was going to be a big one, so I organised to stay the night there, and we had a good night. The next morning, I knew I was still drunk, so I waited. I ate some breakfast. I drank lots of water and coffee. I waited some more. And I kept on waiting. The little breathalyzer thingy we had showed us all slowly sobering up, and people would gradually leave as they got under their threshold BAC level. As I was on my probationary licence again (back on it as I'd previously lost it), again, I had to give a reading of 0.00%. Our breathalyzer finally showed me at zeroes, and still I waited another hour, just to be sure.

It was about 3:30pm when I finally got into the car, and was pulled over literally 500m from my brothers house. 0.064%.
None of this meant anything to the court of course. And I guess that's fair enough in it's way ...

In other words you has issues with drinking and driving and if you do it again you go to jail. I don't see the problem here.



Looks like you have a reading comprehension problem. Maybe you should park it until that clears up....

/just saying
 
2013-01-21 03:07:24 PM  

John Buck 41: What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law while causing no harm whatsover to property, life, or limb.


Yeah, it's also crazy that if someone pulls out a gun, takes careful aim at your head, and manages to miss, it's still a crime!

Insanity!
 
2013-01-21 03:17:24 PM  

DittoToo: Egoy3k: Maul555: Who are all these people with home breathalyzers that monitor their guests BAC? I never want to know you people or ever consume alcohol around you people... This is just bizzare. I guess it is a natural product of a police state. Random breath tests? You people should move...

The same people who can get sued if they let you leave their house drunk if you get in an accident.

Don't let anyone drink at you're house if you're concerned about that...and get better friends.


I'm not concerned about that, and I don't test my guests. I have no need of better friends. I was simply explaining why someone might test their guests.
 
2013-01-21 04:04:42 PM  

SJKebab:

You wanna know who told us where it was? Your goddamn brother.


Too obscure? Not obscure enough?
 
2013-01-21 04:07:38 PM  

The Larch: John Buck 41: What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law while causing no harm whatsover to property, life, or limb.

Yeah, it's also crazy that if someone pulls out a gun, takes careful aim at your head, and manages to miss, it's still a crime!

Insanity!


Yes, those 2 instances are exactly alike.
 
2013-01-21 04:35:12 PM  

T.M.S.: How is it possible to attain the age of 54 with such a fondness for alcohol and never figure out a way to drink that doesn't involve driving a car?

SJKebab: tukatz: I'm thinking his "one beer" comment doesn't describe his own drinking habits.  A 7th conviction for drunk driving probably equals having beer for breakfast, then working up to more potent stuff throughout the day.

Wisconsin needs to start locking up at 3rd offense.   And claiming their cars for auction to make up some of the outrageous court costs.


Yes and no.  The problem with mandatory sentencing is always the same.  Mitigating circumstances are never taken into account by definition.  As a 2 time DUI convict myself, I have to chip in here.

In my case, my first DUI was as a probationary driver - not allowed to have any alcohol in the system at all.  In this case, I was stupid.  I'd had about a beer and half, and realised that I was about to run out, so I hopped in the car to pick some more up.  Bang, random breath test.  Bang, I blew 0.04.  I knew I wasn't drunk, but nonetheless I accept full responsibility for this one.  I was stupid and I paid the price.  I lost my licence for 3 months.

Fast forward 2 years later, and I"m back on the road and all is good.  I went to my brothers house to have a drink with him, and I knew it was going to be a big one, so I organised to stay the night there, and we had a good night.  The next morning, I knew I was still drunk, so I waited.  I ate some breakfast.  I drank lots of water and coffee.  I waited some more.  And I kept on waiting.  The little breathalyzer thingy we had showed us all slowly sobering up, and people would gradually leave as they got under their threshold BAC level.  As I was on my probationary licence again (back on it as I'd previously lost it), again, I had to give a reading of 0.00%.  Our breathalyzer finally showed me at zeroes, and still I waited another hour, just to be sure.

It was about 3:30pm when I finally got into the car, and w ...


Like T.M.S., you clearly state that you have a problem with not staying the fark out from behind the wheel after drinking enough to make you clearly intoxicated (at least legally, if not physically), so I fail to see the problem. Learn to sit in the passenger seat after consuming alcohol and you'll stay out of prison and keep your license.


Happy Hours: In December, Peter C. Smith, 29, of Janesville, was arrested on his eighth drunken driving charge after he allegedly ran a red light with his red Chevrolet Beretta. Police say he had a blood alcohol level of 0.15 percent.

0.15 will get you an "extreme DUI" in some states (at least in AZ) but I'm more concerned that he would risk running red lights when he had to know he was probably over the limit and already had 7 DUIs.

Running red lights is very dangerous and cars that you collide with when you do so don't care if you are drunk or sober.

NEVER run red lights.

And if you've had a few drinks, do not speed, take extra care to stay in your lane and FFS do not give the cops any reason to pull you over (i.e. make sure all your lights work and your tags are not expired).

/doing field sobriety tests sucks
//Yeah, I know many people advise refusing them but that pretty much assures you're going to get at least a roadside breath test if not a trip downtown for an official court-admissible test
///never been given a breath test


Actually, I recommend the opposite: refuse the field sobriety test (if your state allows it) and demand the breathalyzer (most states do not allow you to refuse breathalyzer anyway--at least not the ones I have driven in) or, even better, a blood test. There are a great many valid medical reasons one could fail a field sobriety test, including but not limited to: ear infection, vertigo, cognitive impairment due to injury, traumatic brain injury (mild to moderate), epilepsy... the list goes on. Not one of those medical reasons is easily recognized by most police officers, and, in fact, there are many credible accounts of police attempting to arrest individuals and charge them with DUI/DWI on the basis of a failed field sobriety test/nonresponsiveness/belligerence when the issue was, in fact, medical.

I've seen people fail a sobriety field test who passed a breathalyser and blood test because they had no alcohol in their system. The blood test is the gold standard--the field test simply shows whether or not you can walk a straight line, balance, and count/say your ABC's backwards... which, as a neurospine polytrauma patient, I cannot. Nor can hundreds--perhaps thousands--of others like me.
 
2013-01-21 04:44:17 PM  
A retired GM worker with 7 DWI convictions you say. Well, he has a point. If he can be sloshed drunk and build the cars, why can't he drive them the same way.
 
2013-01-21 05:02:39 PM  
SJKebab:

Here's a thought: you drink too goddamn much and you've been repeatedly stupid about it.
 
2013-01-21 05:22:35 PM  

megarian: DrPainMD: What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law due to an arbitrary level of some substance in his blood.

I am suspicious of breathalyzers. I had ONE 16oz beer... literally one, not "officer, I swear I only had one"... And I blew a point .08 on the dot. I was pulled over for the light over my license plate being out. I'm not very good at maths or chemistyy, but I have no idea how one beer = .08.


Easy. The machines don't work.
 
2013-01-21 05:26:06 PM  

andyofne: DrPainMD: What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law due to an arbitrary level of some substance in his blood.

I don't think you know what that word means.

ar·bi·trar·y/ˈärbiˌtrerē/AdjectiveBased on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.(of power or a ruling body) Unrestrained and autocratic in the use of authority.
I'm fairly certain that a system was used to determine what constitutes driving under the influence.

If it was truly arbitrary, they could simply choose any number at any time and say "aha! .0001!!! you are under the influence".


That's how they came up with 0.08, so, yes, I do know what that word means.
 
2013-01-21 05:36:02 PM  

SJKebab: tukatz: And, sorry to all the "I only had a few beers" or "I was sobering up" people, but you were stopped for some reason.  Whether it was speeding, weaving, running a red light or whatever.... you were driving badly.

Nope, gotta disagree there.  Here in Australia, we have random breath test roadblocks.  If you see it, it's too late.  They'll either pull you aside or let you go arbitrarily.


That's different from America then. [IANAL alert!] The cops here have to have (or at least claim to have) a legit reason to pull you over. If your car is in good order (no broken lights, etc.), you're driving safely, not weaving about, and obeying all traffic laws, it is very difficult for you to get pulled over. I'm not saying it's impossible, of course, and I've been stopped for some pretty arbitrary things, but at the very least the cops need to have some excuse.

They could set up roadblocks here, but if they do that they basically have to stop everyone----stopping and testing people totally at random would violate the "illegal search as seizure" part of the constitution.
 
2013-01-21 05:39:24 PM  

EvilEgg: Egoy3k: If you really want to piss off the cops pull a U-turn before a roadblock when you are sober. They'll pull two squad cars away from the roadblock just to chase you down and then get nothing on the breath tester.

/I've done this
//I was a dumb 16 year old

Then they arrest for an illegal u-turn, reckless driving, and a couple more charges I'm sure I am missing.  The point is, you are always breaking the law.


Don't forget fleeing from the police and resisting arrest! Oh, and where did that bag of weed on the passenger seat come from? That looks like a gun in your pocket, so you probably need to be tazed, etc.
 
2013-01-21 05:39:37 PM  

John Buck 41: The Larch: John Buck 41: What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law while causing no harm whatsover to property, life, or limb.

Yeah, it's also crazy that if someone pulls out a gun, takes careful aim at your head, and manages to miss, it's still a crime!

Insanity!

Yes, those 2 instances are exactly alike.


They both cause no harm whatsoever. So, you explain to me how they're different.
 
2013-01-21 06:15:39 PM  

Jument: SJKebab:

Here's a thought: you drink too goddamn much and you've been repeatedly stupid about it.


I drink too much, no doubt.  However, I was stupid once, and miscalculated a 2nd time even after trying my best to drive legally.  So yep, obviously I have a problem and I'm a menace to public safety.
 
2013-01-21 06:23:18 PM  

Aigoo: Fast forward 2 years later, and I"m back on the road and all is good. I went to my brothers house to have a drink with him, and I knew it was going to be a big one, so I organised to stay the night there, and we had a good night. The next morning, I knew I was still drunk, so I waited. I ate some breakfast. I drank lots of water and coffee. I waited some more. And I kept on waiting. The little breathalyzer thingy we had showed us all slowly sobering up, and people would gradually leave as they got under their threshold BAC level. As I was on my probationary licence again (back on it as I'd previously lost it), again, I had to give a reading of 0.00%. Our breathalyzer finally showed me at zeroes, and still I waited another hour, just to be sure.

It was about 3:30pm when I finally got into the car, and w ...

Like T.M.S., you clearly state that you have a problem with not staying the fark out from behind the wheel after drinking enough to make you clearly intoxicated (at least legally, if not physically), so I fail to see the problem. Learn to sit in the passenger seat after consuming alcohol and you'll stay out of prison and keep your license.



So he;
1) Stayed the night and had breakfast the next morning.
2) Used an instrument to double check that he was sober enough to drive.
3) Waited an extra hour just to make sure.

He doesn't have a problem. You're another one with a reading comprehension problem. Go park with the other guy till you sober up enough to post.
 
2013-01-21 06:35:36 PM  

The Larch: John Buck 41: The Larch: John Buck 41: What's ridiculous is that a person can get into his car, safely drive from Point A to Point B, and be in violation of the law while causing no harm whatsover to property, life, or limb.

Yeah, it's also crazy that if someone pulls out a gun, takes careful aim at your head, and manages to miss, it's still a crime!

Insanity!

Yes, those 2 instances are exactly alike.

They both cause no harm whatsoever. So, you explain to me how they're different.


static.fjcdn.com

Bye now. Adults are trying to have a conversation here.
 
2013-01-21 06:47:30 PM  
I dunno, personally I think that after getting so many duis you shouldn't be allowed to drive or buy beer.

I have one dui and have no sympathy for people that get multiple duis. You all knew what you were getting into.

/used to drink and drive a bunch, then I did a nollie 360 flip with my car.
 
2013-01-21 11:24:16 PM  

Outlander Engine: Aigoo: Fast forward 2 years later, and I"m back on the road and all is good. I went to my brothers house to have a drink with him, and I knew it was going to be a big one, so I organised to stay the night there, and we had a good night. The next morning, I knew I was still drunk, so I waited. I ate some breakfast. I drank lots of water and coffee. I waited some more. And I kept on waiting. The little breathalyzer thingy we had showed us all slowly sobering up, and people would gradually leave as they got under their threshold BAC level. As I was on my probationary licence again (back on it as I'd previously lost it), again, I had to give a reading of 0.00%. Our breathalyzer finally showed me at zeroes, and still I waited another hour, just to be sure.

It was about 3:30pm when I finally got into the car, and w ...

Like T.M.S., you clearly state that you have a problem with not staying the fark out from behind the wheel after drinking enough to make you clearly intoxicated (at least legally, if not physically), so I fail to see the problem. Learn to sit in the passenger seat after consuming alcohol and you'll stay out of prison and keep your license.


So he;
1) Stayed the night and had breakfast the next morning.
2) Used an instrument to double check that he was sober enough to drive.
3) Waited an extra hour just to make sure.

He doesn't have a problem. You're another one with a reading comprehension problem. Go park with the other guy till you sober up enough to post.


And he says it's not fair that if he has a beer and drives, it's prison time. I'm very consistent on this: use a designated driver, call a cab, walk, I don't give a fark. But whatever you do, do not drive after drinking. I am utterly implacable on this because I was nearly killed by a drunk driver.

So go fark yourself, asswipe. When you spend over a year re-learning how to farking walk and the rest of your life dealing with the consequences of some other asshole's choice to drive after what they call "a few drinks" (she blew a .21 three hours AFTER the wreck!), then you can tell me how I should feel or think. Until then, I haven't a shred of pity for any individual who gets behind the wheel after even one SIP of alcohol. I have never done it even one time, and I will never pity anyone who has, nor condone it. You drink and drive, I hope with every fiber of my being you are charged with attempted vehicular homicide and sentenced accordingly, because you made a choice to take my life and the lives of every other person on the roads into your drunken hands.
 
2013-01-21 11:50:55 PM  

Aigoo: Like T.M.S., you clearly state that you have a problem with not staying the fark out from behind the wheel after drinking enough to make you clearly intoxicated (at least legally, if not physically), so I fail to see the problem. Learn to sit in the passenger seat after consuming alcohol and you'll stay out of prison and keep your license.


You have no problem with a person who is NOT physically intoxicated being arrested for driving while intoxicated?
 
2013-01-22 12:13:25 AM  

Aigoo: You drink and drive, I hope with every fiber of my being you are charged with attempted vehicular homicide and sentenced accordingly, because you made a choice to take my life and the lives of every other person on the roads into your drunken hands.


Sorry to hear what happened to you.  However are you seriously suggesting that there's zero difference between the type of idiot who hit you (who shouldn't be allowed near a car again for a very long time...), and someone who's had literally one sip of beer before having an accident?

I hope you've never driven tired...

Research has shown that not sleeping for more than 17 hours has an effect on driving ability the same as a Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC) of 0.05. Not sleeping for 24 hours has the same effect of having a BAC of 0.10, double the legal limit.
 
2013-01-22 12:30:30 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: SJKebab: tukatz: And, sorry to all the "I only had a few beers" or "I was sobering up" people, but you were stopped for some reason.  Whether it was speeding, weaving, running a red light or whatever.... you were driving badly.

Nope, gotta disagree there.  Here in Australia, we have random breath test roadblocks.  If you see it, it's too late.  They'll either pull you aside or let you go arbitrarily.

That's different from America then. [IANAL alert!] The cops here have to have (or at least claim to have) a legit reason to pull you over. If your car is in good order (no broken lights, etc.), you're driving safely, not weaving about, and obeying all traffic laws, it is very difficult for you to get pulled over. I'm not saying it's impossible, of course, and I've been stopped for some pretty arbitrary things, but at the very least the cops need to have some excuse.

They could set up roadblocks here, but if they do that they basically have to stop everyone----stopping and testing people totally at random would violate the "illegal search as seizure" part of the constitution.


In NZ they don't need reasonable cause to stop you for a breath test either.

Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege extended by license to qualified persons who comply with the regulations and qualification testing regime set out by the government. Sure unlike most licenses almost everyone has one, but it's still a license.

I guess Kiwis and Aussies don't have a problem with random checks to make sure you're exercising that privilege responsibly and within the regulations just like any other licensed activity (fishing ,hunting, running a business, owning a firearm, flying a plane, being a doctor...). No one seems to have a problem with regulatory spot-checks on ANY OTHER license.
 
2013-01-22 12:52:58 AM  

Aigoo: And he says it's not fair that if he has a beer and drives, it's prison time. I'm very consistent on this: use a designated driver, call a cab, walk, I don't give a fark. But whatever you do, do not drive after drinking. I am utterly implacable on this because I was nearly killed by a drunk driver.

So go fark yourself, asswipe. When you spend over a year re-learning how to farking walk and the rest of your life dealing with the consequences of some other asshole's choice to drive after what they call "a few drinks" (she blew a .21 three hours AFTER the wreck!), then you can tell me how I should feel or think. Until then, I haven't a shred of pity for any individual who gets behind the wheel after even one SIP of alcohol. I have never done it even one time, and I will never pity anyone who has, nor condone it. You drink and drive, I hope with every fiber of my being you are charged with attempted vehicular homicide and sentenced accordingly, because you made a choice to take my life and the lives of every other person on the roads into your drunken hands.


On the one hand, sorry that happened to you. Lifes a biatch, and then you die.

On the other, go take a flying leap for playing the sympathy card, you lying little sanctimonious pile of rancid fish guts. Because he never said that.

His point was

SJKebab: The problem with mandatory sentencing is always the same.  Mitigating circumstances are never taken into account by definition.


Now sack off.
 
2013-01-22 07:46:57 AM  
Any officer will tell you that the higher a driver's BAC is, the more likely they are to insist that they only had one or two beers
 
2013-01-22 01:16:14 PM  

John Buck 41: Bye now. Adults are trying to have a conversation here.


Dude, you're the one who claimed that there was absolutely nothing wrong with drive drunk, as long as you don't kill anyone.

But you sure told me. I'll go away now, with my childish notions of personal responsibility and infantile aversion to negligent manslaughter.
 
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