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(C|Net)   Microsoft blazes trail to next PC. And by trail, we mean the Trail of Tears. And by blaze, we mean literally on fire, with people running and screaming, chased by brightly colored non resizable tiles   (reviews.cnet.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Microsoft, Trail of Tears, templates, application software, trails, Windows XP  
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8094 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jan 2013 at 9:02 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-20 09:12:39 AM  
This design is what Windows 8 was made for, use it as a laptop with the traditional desktop or use it as a tablet with touch screen with Metro. It makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is ramming Metro down the throat of people who have a desktop PC that will never have a touchscreen. Hence why I have Classic Shell. With that W8 is great.
 
2013-01-20 09:13:18 AM  
Oooooooh, are they going to force us to use their SWELL Metro UI that everyone loves so much?
 
2013-01-20 09:17:52 AM  

doczoidberg: Oooooooh, are they going to force us to use their SWELL Metro UI that everyone loves so much?


When you take it away from the keyboard and are carrying it on the bus and using it as a tablet then Metro makes sense. Otherwise I agree, W8 should have a big box come up when you install it saying "Is this a desktop PC or a tablet?" and give you just desktop or just Metro depending on your answer.
 
2013-01-20 09:20:35 AM  

Flint Ironstag: doczoidberg: Oooooooh, are they going to force us to use their SWELL Metro UI that everyone loves so much?

When you take it away from the keyboard and are carrying it on the bus and using it as a tablet then Metro makes sense. Otherwise I agree, W8 should have a big box come up when you install it saying "Is this a desktop PC or a tablet?" and give you just desktop or just Metro depending on your answer.


That will be Windows 8 SE
 
2013-01-20 09:24:17 AM  
I wonder what Microsoft pays for an article like this?

Also, of course I "remember" the netbook. Out here in the real world where we're not tech reviewers who get handed new hardware like it's farking candy, I see them all the time.
 
2013-01-20 09:27:32 AM  
Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.
 
2013-01-20 09:31:14 AM  

Nefarious: Flint Ironstag: doczoidberg: Oooooooh, are they going to force us to use their SWELL Metro UI that everyone loves so much?

When you take it away from the keyboard and are carrying it on the bus and using it as a tablet then Metro makes sense. Otherwise I agree, W8 should have a big box come up when you install it saying "Is this a desktop PC or a tablet?" and give you just desktop or just Metro depending on your answer.

That will be Windows 8 SE


That's what gets me. Had MS given people a choice with W8 it would have been received very positively, a OS that is 'future proof', that is ready for touchscreen, that can work on convertible machines like this Surface. It could have been a real hit.
But they blew it. They tried to force everyone into using the Metro start screen, and all the hidden corner buttons, that are very much touch screen features even if the user has a desktop PC that will never have a touchscreen.

As I said in an earlier thread, it would be like Honda deciding to unify their controls between their cars and bikes and fitting all their cars with handlebars, twist grip throttles etc. Honda haven't done that because cars are not bikes. Car controls work for cars, and millions of car drivers are used to them, and bike controls work on bikes. Why try to force everyone to use the same controls?
 
2013-01-20 09:33:03 AM  

Marine1: Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.


Such as? Not snarking, curious. I love W8 but use Classic Shell to minimise using Metro as much as possible.
 
2013-01-20 09:33:08 AM  
You'll get over it.
 
2013-01-20 09:34:07 AM  
Interesting article but how can i trust anything CNET says? How can i be sure CBS isn't taking money for articles in addition to dictating what products they give award to?
 
2013-01-20 09:35:56 AM  
Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.
 
2013-01-20 09:37:36 AM  
I recently purchased the largest phone known to man (At least since Zach Morris was cool) and with the addition of a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, this has been the easiest navigating web appliance i've ever had. I haven't opened my laptop in a week. When my HDMI-out cable gets here next week to plug this into my 26" monitor, it will be an AWESOME computing platform. I can really see this mobile computing thing taking off even in the home, its seriously easy, and super lazy.

Left click to open, right click to go back, center click to go home, long center click for task manager. Even the standard multimedia controls on the keyboard work without any configuration. I'm seriously blown away. And it assumes i'm a retard on an on-screen keyboard and still capitalizes for me, autocompletes like crazy, etc. This is sweet!
 
2013-01-20 09:38:11 AM  
I use a netbook at home all the time. It is small, has a real keyboard, and works great for surfing the web or checking emails.
 
Xai
2013-01-20 09:49:52 AM  
Because every other OS out there lets you re-size icons... oh wait...
 
2013-01-20 09:51:27 AM  

LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.


But we've been told "Metro is the new Start screen". So wouldn't that mean we are forced to use it? That or forced to learn a lot of new and weird keyboard shortcuts to avoid it? Like using the various buttons that are now hidden and you have to go hunting for them?

And what about default apps that only open in Metro? Like the default PDF viewer? Or even Solitaire? Want to pass a few minutes playing Solitaire while waiting for a streaming video to start? Tough. Solitaire is Metro only and you've opened iPlayer in desktop. Want to open a calculator on top of a PDF to add up some figures? Tough. Can't have the calculator on top of a Metro PDF.
 
2013-01-20 09:52:20 AM  
I'm getting the strong sense that people who constantly rag on Windows 8 have never actually used it (apart from the 5 minutes they spent "confirming" that it sucks).
It has it's flaws, but all in all, it's quite decent.
 
2013-01-20 09:53:39 AM  
One of our admins at work had Win 8 on his comp. I do t know for how long, but I walked by his desk on Friday and noticed he had put 7 back on it.

Yeah.
 
2013-01-20 09:56:23 AM  

WhippingBoy: I'm getting the strong sense that people who constantly rag on Windows 8 have never actually used it (apart from the 5 minutes they spent "confirming" that it sucks).
It has it's flaws, but all in all, it's quite decent.


Maybe they really are all Apple employees who have a Mac? From a business point of view it would certainly make sense for them to pay people to slam W8 online.

At least I can't be accused of being a MS employee, since I always tell people how great Classic Shell is. I doubt MS like hearing that.
 
2013-01-20 09:56:45 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.com

As usual, Star Trek showed us the future decades ago.

I predict all-in-one PCs (think extra large tablets) mounted so they can swivel to typing angle for touch apps and also remain upright like traditional monitors when gaming/video watching.
 
2013-01-20 09:57:56 AM  

Flint Ironstag: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

But we've been told "Metro is the new Start screen". So wouldn't that mean we are forced to use it? That or forced to learn a lot of new and weird keyboard shortcuts to avoid it? Like using the various buttons that are now hidden and you have to go hunting for them?

And what about default apps that only open in Metro? Like the default PDF viewer? Or even Solitaire? Want to pass a few minutes playing Solitaire while waiting for a streaming video to start? Tough. Solitaire is Metro only and you've opened iPlayer in desktop. Want to open a calculator on top of a PDF to add up some figures? Tough. Can't have the calculator on top of a Metro PDF.


I use the default Metro mail, snapped to the side of my rightmost monitor. The start menu also appears on the rightmost monitor. I've never had any issues with PDFs because this isn't the stone age and my browser handles them. I can't speak to anyone's tolerance for change, I guess, but I'm not at all bothered by the tiny amount of interaction I have with it.

As far as solitaire, I guess sorry for the inconvenience? I just think it takes more for me to hate an OS than less than excellent solitaire experiences.

Just stop using the Metro stuff if you don't like it - there are a million ways to handle PDFs, for example.
 
2013-01-20 09:58:18 AM  

illegal.tender: One of our admins at work had Win 8 on his comp. I do t know for how long, but I walked by his desk on Friday and noticed he had put 7 back on it.

Yeah.


How could you tell by walking past? W8 Desktop can look exactly the same as 7.
 
2013-01-20 10:02:25 AM  
Sony Vaio Duo 11 convertible.
It looks like the polaroid swinger and will last as long.
 
2013-01-20 10:02:54 AM  
TFA got one thing right...MS is smart for ditching the Atom. That processor pretty much single-handedly killed off netbooks. I got really tired of having this conversation:

"Can you make my netbook any faster?"

"Nope."

/but the Atom did teach you patience, and patience is a virtue.
 
2013-01-20 10:04:03 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Marine1: Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.

Such as? Not snarking, curious. I love W8 but use Classic Shell to minimise using Metro as much as possible.


Well, if you program like me, you spend a lot of time switching back and forth between your IDE and looking at websites with documentation. What if that documentation were put into app form? Then you can dock it to the side and have an unobtrusive way to look at the information without losing your place in your code or breaking your train of thought switching between windows.

I'm trying to more or less accomplish this by making a guide on the C Standard Library. I need to develop a better understanding of the subject matter before releasing the app for certification, though.
 
2013-01-20 10:04:38 AM  
Dude, I'm no fan of Microsoft, and especially not Windows 8, but isn't invoking the Trail of Tears kind of a sideways Godwin?
 
2013-01-20 10:04:54 AM  

LasersHurt: Flint Ironstag: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

But we've been told "Metro is the new Start screen". So wouldn't that mean we are forced to use it? That or forced to learn a lot of new and weird keyboard shortcuts to avoid it? Like using the various buttons that are now hidden and you have to go hunting for them?

And what about default apps that only open in Metro? Like the default PDF viewer? Or even Solitaire? Want to pass a few minutes playing Solitaire while waiting for a streaming video to start? Tough. Solitaire is Metro only and you've opened iPlayer in desktop. Want to open a calculator on top of a PDF to add up some figures? Tough. Can't have the calculator on top of a Metro PDF.

I use the default Metro mail, snapped to the side of my rightmost monitor. The start menu also appears on the rightmost monitor. I've never had any issues with PDFs because this isn't the stone age and my browser handles them. I can't speak to anyone's tolerance for change, I guess, but I'm not at all bothered by the tiny amount of interaction I have with it.

As far as solitaire, I guess sorry for the inconvenience? I just think it takes more for me to hate an OS than less than excellent solitaire experiences.

Just stop using the Metro stuff if you don't like it - there are a million ways to handle PDFs, for example.


Who said I hate W8? I love it, but I have Classic Shell to make it easier to use. On my dual monitor setup I can't snap Metro apps to half screen, they are full screen only, on either monitor. This was the case before I installed Classic Shell so that hasn't done that.

And you said you spent 99.9% of your time in Desktop but now say you have a dual monitor setup with Metro start screen open all the time? Isn't that a bit misleading? That suggests you need to use the Metro start screen and since most people don't have twin monitors (god knows why. They're great!) they will have to go into Metro every time they need to use it.
 
2013-01-20 10:05:12 AM  

oh_please: TFA got one thing right...MS is smart for ditching the Atom. That processor pretty much single-handedly killed off netbooks. I got really tired of having this conversation:

"Can you make my netbook any faster?"

"Nope."

/but the Atom did teach you patience, and patience is a virtue.


I actually think they should move away from ARM to the new generation of Atom processors. They're actually pretty good, and can even beat ARM chips in battery benchmarks.
 
2013-01-20 10:09:58 AM  

Marine1: Flint Ironstag: Marine1: Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.

Such as? Not snarking, curious. I love W8 but use Classic Shell to minimise using Metro as much as possible.

Well, if you program like me, you spend a lot of time switching back and forth between your IDE and looking at websites with documentation. What if that documentation were put into app form? Then you can dock it to the side and have an unobtrusive way to look at the information without losing your place in your code or breaking your train of thought switching between windows.

I'm trying to more or less accomplish this by making a guide on the C Standard Library. I need to develop a better understanding of the subject matter before releasing the app for certification, though.


Wouldn't that be the same as having two XP/W7 windows open side by side? Or with XP/7 you could also choose to have one above the other so each would be full width.
 
2013-01-20 10:12:00 AM  
Nothin' screams MODERN like a VGA port sticking out the side.
 
2013-01-20 10:12:34 AM  
It's hysterical that Microsoft seriously thinks they are going to convince businesses to buy a "tablet" with a four hour battery life and no cellular connectivity.

The whole point of tablets in the enterprise was to have a thin, light device with an all day battery life which could access your network from anywhere.
 
2013-01-20 10:20:48 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Marine1: Flint Ironstag: Marine1: Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.

Such as? Not snarking, curious. I love W8 but use Classic Shell to minimise using Metro as much as possible.

Well, if you program like me, you spend a lot of time switching back and forth between your IDE and looking at websites with documentation. What if that documentation were put into app form? Then you can dock it to the side and have an unobtrusive way to look at the information without losing your place in your code or breaking your train of thought switching between windows.

I'm trying to more or less accomplish this by making a guide on the C Standard Library. I need to develop a better understanding of the subject matter before releasing the app for certification, though.

Wouldn't that be the same as having two XP/W7 windows open side by side? Or with XP/7 you could also choose to have one above the other so each would be full width.


Not exactly. This affords you more space for your IDE (it more or less gives you a 4:3 aspect ratio area to work with instead of the 16:9) because it uses less space. Instead of splitting the screen in half, you get more dedicated to what you need. The information is also more cleanly presented and you don't have to worry about how the windows on the desktop are layered on top of each other, which I find sometimes with the Aero Metro Modern Snap.
 
2013-01-20 10:24:11 AM  

Flint Ironstag: And you said you spent 99.9% of your time in Desktop but now say you have a dual monitor setup with Metro start screen open all the time? Isn't that a bit misleading?


I've not explained myself correctly - the desktop is shown 99.9% of the time. You can snap an app into a narrow bar on the side, yet show the desktop - that's what I do. The free desktop space is usually a Chrome window.

The actual start menu is not displayed.
 
2013-01-20 10:38:16 AM  
When Apple releases the same product, but with faux-hipster marketing, it will be seen as revolutionary.
 
2013-01-20 10:47:36 AM  

LasersHurt: Flint Ironstag: And you said you spent 99.9% of your time in Desktop but now say you have a dual monitor setup with Metro start screen open all the time? Isn't that a bit misleading?

I've not explained myself correctly - the desktop is shown 99.9% of the time. You can snap an app into a narrow bar on the side, yet show the desktop - that's what I do. The free desktop space is usually a Chrome window.

The actual start menu is not displayed.


Ahh, I see. Can you have a Metro app taking up half of one of your monitors? Since I can't I assumed that when W8 runs two screens it treats it as one desktop and all Metro apps are by default running on half the screen, so making them half a monitor would be a quarter of the screen, if that makes sense. I've never managed to do that so I assume it can't.
 
2013-01-20 10:48:33 AM  
So "tiles" are just big brightly colored buttons so windows users can easily click on them with their oversized fingers? What if your desktop icons exceed the space of your screen are you expected to flip past many screens just to open an App?
 
2013-01-20 10:49:43 AM  

LordJiro: When Apple releases the same product, but with faux-hipster marketing, it will be seen as revolutionary.


img827.imageshack.us

/Obligatory.
 
2013-01-20 10:51:45 AM  
img252.imageshack.us

/Also obligatory.
 
2013-01-20 10:52:45 AM  

LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.


You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.
 
2013-01-20 10:55:49 AM  

East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.


He could have installed the desktop (regular) version of Skype. It sounds like he had the Skype app installed instead.
 
2013-01-20 11:03:09 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Ahh, I see. Can you have a Metro app taking up half of one of your monitors? Since I can't I assumed that when W8 runs two screens it treats it as one desktop and all Metro apps are by default running on half the screen, so making them half a monitor would be a quarter of the screen, if that makes sense. I've never managed to do that so I assume it can't.


Metro goes full-monitor on whatever monitor you've got it set on. When you snap an app, it takes about 20% - whatever else is on that monitor, be it desktop or metro, fills that space. There is no way to make it use more than 20%, which is a shame - I'd like to be able to snap several apps, in 20% increments. 40-40-20 with 3 apps, for example, would be nice.

WhippingBoy: East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.

He could have installed the desktop (regular) version of Skype. It sounds like he had the Skype app installed instead.


Correct. Metro skype is a pain in the ass. Install desktop.
 
2013-01-20 11:04:24 AM  

WhippingBoy: East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.

He could have installed the desktop (regular) version of Skype. It sounds like he had the Skype app installed instead.


Sooooo...he should have removed the Skype app that came pre-installed on his new Windows 8 laptop and installed a different version of the same application?

I totally get why he hates Windows 8 now.

I didn't really want to believe it, but I now think LasersHurt really must be a paid MS shill who cries himself to sleep each night, drinking a quart of vodka to help him forget the horrible lies he is forced to tell.
 
2013-01-20 11:10:13 AM  

East Avenue Arse: I didn't really want to believe it, but I now think LasersHurt really must be a paid MS shill who cries himself to sleep each night, drinking a quart of vodka to help him forget the horrible lies he is forced to tell.


Ah, we finally got there. Every thread about every technology that anyone says anything good about = accusations of being a paid shill. Took long enough.
 
2013-01-20 11:10:25 AM  

LasersHurt: Flint Ironstag: Ahh, I see. Can you have a Metro app taking up half of one of your monitors? Since I can't I assumed that when W8 runs two screens it treats it as one desktop and all Metro apps are by default running on half the screen, so making them half a monitor would be a quarter of the screen, if that makes sense. I've never managed to do that so I assume it can't.

Metro goes full-monitor on whatever monitor you've got it set on. When you snap an app, it takes about 20% - whatever else is on that monitor, be it desktop or metro, fills that space. There is no way to make it use more than 20%, which is a shame - I'd like to be able to snap several apps, in 20% increments. 40-40-20 with 3 apps, for example, would be nice.

WhippingBoy: East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.

He could have installed the desktop (regular) version of Skype. It sounds like he had the Skype app installed instead.

Correct. Metro skype is a pain in the ass. Install desktop.


"40-40-20 with 3 apps, for example, would be nice."

You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.

HOMER_THATS_SARCASM.jpg
 
2013-01-20 11:12:03 AM  

East Avenue Arse: You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.


Desktop windows still exist, do that if you want to. Nothing stopping you. I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.
 
2013-01-20 11:15:43 AM  

LasersHurt: . I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.


security guard, huh?
 
2013-01-20 11:16:24 AM  

vudukungfu: LasersHurt: . I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.

security guard, huh?


Support for a software company, work from home.
 
2013-01-20 11:18:42 AM  
I'm looking for Microsoft to provide some REAL innovation, like hiding the entire file name instead of just the extension.
 
2013-01-20 11:18:52 AM  

LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: I didn't really want to believe it, but I now think LasersHurt really must be a paid MS shill who cries himself to sleep each night, drinking a quart of vodka to help him forget the horrible lies he is forced to tell.

Ah, we finally got there. Every thread about every technology that anyone says anything good about = accusations of being a paid shill. Took long enough.


I have read most of the Win8 threads with interest. I develop both Android and iOS apps, been in the industry long enough to know the difference between Windows 3.1 and 3.11 (Windows for Workgroups), have a bit of experience in the tech space, if you know what I mean.

I totally don't get your adamant defense of Win8, unless it is financially motivated. You still seem confused as to why people hate it, and constantly say it is because they have only used it for 5 minutes. This despite all of the people in these threads who say why they hate it.

I have held back my judgement, as I haven't used it yet, and so, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. You seem like a smart guy. But after seeing how my friend absolutely hated having to switch between the two UIs, can you not see how Metro actually is a problem???

If you can't see that, then either you are being paid, or something else is clouding your vision... I just don't get it.
 
2013-01-20 11:25:38 AM  

East Avenue Arse: I totally don't get your adamant defense of Win8, unless it is financially motivated. You still seem confused as to why people hate it, and constantly say it is because they have only used it for 5 minutes.


I do not say that. I think it's a fine OS because I use it like 15 hours a day. I know that Metro can be EASILY avoided if you dislike it, and the REST of the OS is quite fine. That's my whole argument - people are too willing to dismiss it for metro, when it's NOT hard to avoid. They ignore the rest of the OS and focus on this single point.

I'm not paid, I'm not a shill. I do have complaints (I think they failed to take advantage of snapping, as I already explained, and Microsoft bought Skype and Metro Skype blows). I just disagree with you, and in every thread in which I do that to the positive I get called a shill or fanboy (for Apple, for Microsoft, name it).
 
2013-01-20 11:26:02 AM  

Anonymous Bosch: I wonder what Microsoft pays for an article like this?

Also, of course I "remember" the netbook. Out here in the real world where we're not tech reviewers who get handed new hardware like it's farking candy, I see them all the time.


This. I've bought three of the damned things in the last two years, two for my use (work, home) and one for my grandmother (along with a keyboard, and wired the display output to her TV). They are, so far as I can tell, still more popular among people that actually _use_ computers (as opposed to dicking around with them) than tablets or full-screen laptops.

Then, I also work in a lab. Ever tried to use a touch-screen with gloves on?
 
2013-01-20 11:28:31 AM  

LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.

Desktop windows still exist, do that if you want to. Nothing stopping you. I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.


Serious question: is there anything you can do in Win8 that you could not have done in Win7?

One of the big reasons I haven't switched is that I need to be productive at work every day. Losing a day or two (or even an hour or two) to getting all of this reorganized and figured out really isn't an option. I could sell it, if I had something new that would make my life easier and make me more productive, but I haven't seen that "killer app" yet. So, what is it?
 
2013-01-20 11:34:05 AM  

East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.

Desktop windows still exist, do that if you want to. Nothing stopping you. I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.

Serious question: is there anything you can do in Win8 that you could not have done in Win7?

One of the big reasons I haven't switched is that I need to be productive at work every day. Losing a day or two (or even an hour or two) to getting all of this reorganized and figured out really isn't an option. I could sell it, if I had something new that would make my life easier and make me more productive, but I haven't seen that "killer app" yet. So, what is it?


You can mount ISOs directly from the filesystem, which is nice. There are lots of performance improvements to core things, like networking.

Overall, though, would I recommend updating from Windows 7? Not really. If you have a good thing going with Windows 7, just wait on it until you upgrade your PC.
 
2013-01-20 11:36:41 AM  

LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: I totally don't get your adamant defense of Win8, unless it is financially motivated. You still seem confused as to why people hate it, and constantly say it is because they have only used it for 5 minutes.

I do not say that. I think it's a fine OS because I use it like 15 hours a day. I know that Metro can be EASILY avoided if you dislike it, and the REST of the OS is quite fine. That's my whole argument - people are too willing to dismiss it for metro, when it's NOT hard to avoid. They ignore the rest of the OS and focus on this single point.

I'm not paid, I'm not a shill. I do have complaints (I think they failed to take advantage of snapping, as I already explained, and Microsoft bought Skype and Metro Skype blows). I just disagree with you, and in every thread in which I do that to the positive I get called a shill or fanboy (for Apple, for Microsoft, name it).


I apologize. It was WhippingBoy who mentioned the 5 minute thing, not you.

You say it is a fine OS, but is it better than Win7? People focus on Metro, because it is forced on them. You say you can EASILY avoid it, but it really isn't a checkbox you can click. You actually have to install new software if you want to ignore it. It also seems to be the biggest difference between 7 and 8, so why wouldn't people focus on it?

Beside Metro, what can you do in Win8 that you can't do in Win7? I really want to know...
 
2013-01-20 11:50:10 AM  

East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: I totally don't get your adamant defense of Win8, unless it is financially motivated. You still seem confused as to why people hate it, and constantly say it is because they have only used it for 5 minutes.

I do not say that. I think it's a fine OS because I use it like 15 hours a day. I know that Metro can be EASILY avoided if you dislike it, and the REST of the OS is quite fine. That's my whole argument - people are too willing to dismiss it for metro, when it's NOT hard to avoid. They ignore the rest of the OS and focus on this single point.

I'm not paid, I'm not a shill. I do have complaints (I think they failed to take advantage of snapping, as I already explained, and Microsoft bought Skype and Metro Skype blows). I just disagree with you, and in every thread in which I do that to the positive I get called a shill or fanboy (for Apple, for Microsoft, name it).

I apologize. It was WhippingBoy who mentioned the 5 minute thing, not you.

You say it is a fine OS, but is it better than Win7? People focus on Metro, because it is forced on them. You say you can EASILY avoid it, but it really isn't a checkbox you can click. You actually have to install new software if you want to ignore it. It also seems to be the biggest difference between 7 and 8, so why wouldn't people focus on it?

Beside Metro, what can you do in Win8 that you can't do in Win7? I really want to know...


Depends on what interests you.
 
2013-01-20 12:07:53 PM  

East Avenue Arse: Beside Metro, what can you do in Win8 that you can't do in Win7? I really want to know...


Pinball Fx 2!

I got Windows 8 because it was the same price as Windows 7 I can get the 'Personal Use License' with 8, but the added pinball bonus is pretty sweet.
 
2013-01-20 12:14:47 PM  

LasersHurt: Metro goes full-monitor on whatever monitor you've got it set on. When you snap an app, it takes about 20% - whatever else is on that monitor, be it desktop or metro, fills that space. There is no way to make it use more than 20%, which is a shame - I'd like to be able to snap several apps, in 20% increments. 40-40-20 with 3 apps, for example, would be nice.


Having done a bit of digging the MS website says screen resolution must be at least 1366 by 768 and I run two 1024 by 768 monitors. So no Snap for me.
 
2013-01-20 12:18:40 PM  

East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.

Desktop windows still exist, do that if you want to. Nothing stopping you. I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.

Serious question: is there anything you can do in Win8 that you could not have done in Win7?

One of the big reasons I haven't switched is that I need to be productive at work every day. Losing a day or two (or even an hour or two) to getting all of this reorganized and figured out really isn't an option. I could sell it, if I had something new that would make my life easier and make me more productive, but I haven't seen that "killer app" yet. So, what is it?


I think it really depends on what you do with it. For me, the loss the start menu has been unexpectedly jarring to the point that I've gone from thinking I was going to be underwhelmed to the point where I now actively hate Windows 8. I need to access a lot of different systems so I had a lot of things on the start menu and it has been surprisingly disruptive to lose it.

If all you use is email, web and word processing? You probably won't notice that huge of a difference. That said, I don't think it would be worth the upgrade. Windows 7 will be around for many, many more years. Well beyond the introduction of whatever replaces Windows 8.
 
2013-01-20 12:18:42 PM  

East Avenue Arse: WhippingBoy: East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.

He could have installed the desktop (regular) version of Skype. It sounds like he had the Skype app installed instead.

Sooooo...he should have removed the Skype app that came pre-installed on his new Windows 8 laptop and installed a different version of the same application?

I totally get why he hates Windows 8 now.

I didn't really want to believe it, but I now think LasersHurt really must be a paid MS shill who cries himself to sleep each night, drinking a quart of vodka to help him forget the horrible lies he is forced to tell.


Why didn't you just say "MICROSOFT SUX!!! FANBOIS SUX!!! SUCK MY DICK" like everyone else instead of oh so cleverly setting up your derp in the guise of a reasonable question?
 
2013-01-20 12:24:42 PM  

LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: I totally don't get your adamant defense of Win8, unless it is financially motivated. You still seem confused as to why people hate it, and constantly say it is because they have only used it for 5 minutes.

I do not say that. I think it's a fine OS because I use it like 15 hours a day. I know that Metro can be EASILY avoided if you dislike it, and the REST of the OS is quite fine. That's my whole argument - people are too willing to dismiss it for metro, when it's NOT hard to avoid. They ignore the rest of the OS and focus on this single point.

I'm not paid, I'm not a shill. I do have complaints (I think they failed to take advantage of snapping, as I already explained, and Microsoft bought Skype and Metro Skype blows). I just disagree with you, and in every thread in which I do that to the positive I get called a shill or fanboy (for Apple, for Microsoft, name it).


It's not just Metro, it's that they changed the way the traditional desktop works by hiding controls in the corners. If you bought a new car and found that Ford had hidden the ignition key in the glove box and the brake pedal is now a button on the steering wheel you'd complain. Those changes offer no improvement at all to desktop PC mouse and keyboard users, and in fact hinder them by being unfamiliar and slower, for the sake of features that only touch screen users will use.

Had they left Desktop alone (XP/W7 layout) and had Metro as an option then I'm convinced W8 would have been a fantastic hit. Future proof! Touchscreen ready! Perfect for this Surface machine that can be used as a tablet or as a laptop!
Instead they took away lots of Desktop controls and replaced them with touchscreen controls and/or keyboard shortcuts.

Classic Shell proves they can coexist happily, that they could have left the old Start Menu and still have the new touch controls. So why didn't MS do that instead of driving lots of people to a third-party app?
 
2013-01-20 12:27:30 PM  

LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.


Can't interrupt the latest Fark tech circle jerk with facts,or anything.
 
2013-01-20 12:29:27 PM  

East Avenue Arse: Serious question: is there anything you can do in Win8 that you could not have done in Win7?

One of the big reasons I haven't switched is that I need to be productive at work every day. Losing a day or two (or even an hour or two) to getting all of this reorganized and figured out really isn't an option. I could sell it, if I had something new that would make my life easier and make me more productive, but I haven't seen that "killer app" yet. So, what is it?


I traded up from XP so the differences are quite a lot, not sure exactly what W7 had in what versions but I like the restore functions, the auto backup functions, programmes locked on the taskbar, very fast boot and it is supposed to take less system resources to run.
 
2013-01-20 12:33:58 PM  

Millennium: Dude, I'm no fan of Microsoft, and especially not Windows 8, but isn't invoking the Trail of Tears kind of a sideways Godwin?


No one went broke waxing hyperbolic in anti-Microsoft screeds.
 
2013-01-20 12:35:16 PM  

meatofmystery: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

Can't interrupt the latest Fark tech circle jerk with facts,or anything.


Yep. I'm baffled by some of the bizarre statements apparently made by folks who haven't used Windows 8, but it's FARK - the Geek tab is getting almost as bad as the Politics tab.
 
2013-01-20 12:39:16 PM  
Flint Ironstag:
2002: Bill Gates introduces the Tablet PC. No one cares.

2010: Steve Jobs introduces the iPad. The world pisses itself like an excited dog.

2012: Steve Ballmer introduces the Surface. People claim they stole the idea from Apple.



Made me look up the early evolution of tablet-ish devices... Whippersnappers!

1987 Linus Write-Top (gigantic)

1989 GRiDPad (better)

1993 Newton MessagePad (slightly smaller than iPad mini

Not new ideas at all. A friend owned the Newton years ago, it was quite awesome at the time.
 
2013-01-20 12:44:36 PM  

FormlessOne: meatofmystery: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

Can't interrupt the latest Fark tech circle jerk with facts,or anything.

Yep. I'm baffled by some of the bizarre statements apparently made by folks who haven't used Windows 8, but it's FARK - the Geek tab is getting almost as bad as the Politics tab.


I hear Obama is going to force people to use Metro applications to pay their new gun taxes
 
2013-01-20 12:46:03 PM  
It sounds like Microsoft had a good idea, and instead of making it seamless and transparent to the user, implemented it in the most confusing way possible.
 
2013-01-20 12:51:59 PM  
I love my farking Surface. You can have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Surface in real life, just two days ago.

Me: End of day, playing solitare. Up walks Highly Respected Coworker.

HRC: What's happenin'

Me: Nothing much. Hey, you have a minute, I want to walk you through a business plan I'm cooking up.

HRC: Sure.

Me: Flips to PowerPoint, opens presentation stored on DropBox, walks through presentation.

HRC: That's a good idea, where did your revenue and cost figures come from?

Me: Flips to Excel, opens up financing spreadsheets also on DropBox, walks HRC through the numbers.

HRC: That makes sense, give me a call next week and we can do some more work ont it.

Me: No problems. Thanks for the ear. Goes back to playing solitaire.

I like the Surface because I can Angry Bird as much as I want, and still do real work.
 
2013-01-20 12:54:17 PM  
I have Win8 now on a tablet, a touch-screen laptop, and also a desktop. On the tablet and touch-screen laptop, it's nice to have the Modern/Metro interface, and I'm now pretty use to touching the screen for everyday tasks (e.g., browsing, reading documents, etc). On the desktop machine, I pretty much stay in Desktop mode all the time, and in that case Win8 is just like Win7, with some improvements to things like file copying, task manager, etc.
 
2013-01-20 12:55:28 PM  
Woohoo, it's today's W8 hate thread!

Good job, Internet. You never disappoint.
 
2013-01-20 01:04:14 PM  
Hybrid tablets/laptops are the future and Microsoft is leading the way. Give it a couple years and everybody will be using them.
 
2013-01-20 01:13:56 PM  
meh, the whole apple vs. microsoft argument is a moot point, it's never been about having the idea first on the market, it's always been about foresight, timing and gradual market product releases

basically, think of the tech market as a relay race where the team that wins is the one in which each member contributes towards the progress of the next member as they hand off the baton, in this case the ipad benefited from the progress that the iphone made, which benefited from the progress than the ipod made, which benefitted from the taboo-nature of the wild-west mp3 market

apple has been really smart to gradually lead customers towards what they want, and to do so requires placing the building blocks at the right time with the right product (apple maps aside)

microsoft's market strategy has basically been two-faced, on the one hand they want to keep iterating on windows into infinity on the other hand they're constantly starting and stopping on the hardware front, they recognize the growth just isn't there in the PC space compared to the portable space but they're always too slow to recognize their own faults (Re: portable showed signs of larger growth almost a decade ago)

as such, if you look at the market like a relay race, each member of the team is starting over or not doing their part, it's incredibly difficult then to demand that users hop onto the windows 8 surface bandwagon when there's no userbase for it... and on top of that they're ruining whatever progress windows 7 made towards their bottom line

it's really got nothing to do with who has the idea first on the market, and more about what the market wants and being there right when they want it (hence why the galaxy s3 has taken off as the market wanted at least 1 alternative to the iphone ever since the iphone came out)
 
2013-01-20 01:16:06 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Hybrid tablets/laptops are the future and Microsoft is leading the way. Give it a couple years and everybody will be using them.


maybe if somebody else comes up with a tablet/laptop hybrid combo that is comfortable to use on your lap
 
2013-01-20 01:18:29 PM  

East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: I totally don't get your adamant defense of Win8, unless it is financially motivated. You still seem confused as to why people hate it, and constantly say it is because they have only used it for 5 minutes.

I do not say that. I think it's a fine OS because I use it like 15 hours a day. I know that Metro can be EASILY avoided if you dislike it, and the REST of the OS is quite fine. That's my whole argument - people are too willing to dismiss it for metro, when it's NOT hard to avoid. They ignore the rest of the OS and focus on this single point.

I'm not paid, I'm not a shill. I do have complaints (I think they failed to take advantage of snapping, as I already explained, and Microsoft bought Skype and Metro Skype blows). I just disagree with you, and in every thread in which I do that to the positive I get called a shill or fanboy (for Apple, for Microsoft, name it).

I apologize. It was WhippingBoy who mentioned the 5 minute thing, not you.

You say it is a fine OS, but is it better than Win7? People focus on Metro, because it is forced on them. You say you can EASILY avoid it, but it really isn't a checkbox you can click. You actually have to install new software if you want to ignore it. It also seems to be the biggest difference between 7 and 8, so why wouldn't people focus on it?

Beside Metro, what can you do in Win8 that you can't do in Win7? I really want to know...


Storage spaces are pretty neat. Take the 2TB drive, that old 100GB drive, your slightly newer 250GB drive and the 500GB external HD you have sitting around for some reason and make a storage pool. And then partition that into however many storage spaces you want at whatever size with RAID like redundancy. (want 8 50TB drives? go for it doesn't matter how much actual space you have) When the drive space you're using starts to approach the physical amount of storage you have, it bugs you to plug something else in. If a drive dies or you feel like pulling it for other uses you just disconnect it and it.
 
2013-01-20 01:22:36 PM  
Don' forget the Palm Zoomer, introduced in 1992.
www.8bit-micro.com
/hot
 
2013-01-20 01:24:40 PM  
This is going to be hilarious.
 
2013-01-20 01:26:36 PM  

AdamK: maybe if somebody else comes up with a tablet/laptop hybrid combo that is comfortable to use on your lap


They're already out there.

cdn-static.zdnet.com
 
2013-01-20 02:03:29 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: AdamK: maybe if somebody else comes up with a tablet/laptop hybrid combo that is comfortable to use on your lap

They're already out there.

[cdn-static.zdnet.com image 620x527]


how about one that doesn't look like it belongs in a circus?
 
2013-01-20 02:09:55 PM  
www.technostall.com
I like this style better. Screen folds flat and slides shut.
 
2013-01-20 02:28:53 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: FormlessOne: meatofmystery: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

Can't interrupt the latest Fark tech circle jerk with facts,or anything.

Yep. I'm baffled by some of the bizarre statements apparently made by folks who haven't used Windows 8, but it's FARK - the Geek tab is getting almost as bad as the Politics tab.

I hear Obama is going to force people to use Metro applications to pay their new gun taxes


Huh. I heard that conservatives loved Metro's interface - bright colors, sharp angles, no gradients, and they didn't have to use that complicated keyboard any more. Just press their greasy, jam-covered hands right on the screen, and Rush appears with the Blowhard Benedicition of the Day.

Plus, the boot cycle is so much bootstrappier!
 
2013-01-20 02:33:04 PM  
Also, of course I "remember" the netbook. Out here in the real world where we're not tech reviewers who get handed new hardware like it's farking candy, I see them all the time.

This. I've bought three of the damned things in the last two years, two for my use (work, home) and one for my grandmother (along with a keyboard, and wired the display output to her TV). They are, so far as I can tell, still more popular among people that actually _use_ computers (as opposed to dicking around with them) than tablets or full-screen laptops.


This
Netbooks are awesome for travel computers. Most the capabilities of a laptop with a size just a little larger than a tablet. I can watch movies during the flight and then run a powerpoint presentation at the meeting from the same machine. Full laptops often have much more power than the traveler is going to use. The net guy at my last place of employment used a netbook at home and pushed it to see how far he could take it. It did all his normal stuff without a qualm and only complained when he was doing really heavy data work. In addition, if a netbook gets damaged in travel, you are only out ~$200.


Popcorn Johnny: Hybrid tablets/laptops are the future and Microsoft is leading the way. Give it a couple years and everybody will be using them.

maybe if somebody else comes up with a tablet/laptop hybrid combo that is comfortable to use on your lap


You mean like a netbook?
 
2013-01-20 02:52:36 PM  
This thread again. As a person with a WP I have no problem with metro. Hell my friend with a Android and iPod touch have no beef with Windows 8
 
2013-01-20 03:07:41 PM  
The tile screen is a PITA I wish I could turn off along with the default applications that switch from desktop to a tablet screen.

That said the interface changes are only a minor annoyance.

I even see some promise in the idea of a tablet like the lenovo helix that snaps into a base to become a laptop but has everything necessary like battery and processor behind the glass so you can detach it from the base when using it like a tablet.

I want a computer like that and a windows 8 that is smart enough to act like 7 when docked and use the metro stuff when the computer is in tablet mode.
This would include things like different default programs for opening files depending on mode so I have the option of using software optimized for mouse/keyboard when those are available and simpler touch friendly software in tablet mode.
I don't want to try and emulate a mouse's precision with my finger tip or waste that precision when I have it available.
 
2013-01-20 03:25:13 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I'm looking for Microsoft to provide some REAL innovation, like hiding the entire file name instead of just the extension.


I like how it's 2013 and Windows is still dependent on extensions for application associations.

The *nix world did away with that in the 90's. Call the file whatever you want, the OS will figure it out.
 
2013-01-20 03:31:32 PM  

Marine1: Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.


From a user point of view, Windows 8's interface is neither good at being a desktop machine or a tablet. No one wants two completely separate desktop environments that have two different modes of operation and two different application interfaces on the same same machine.

To think otherwise is to be delusional.
 
2013-01-20 03:37:40 PM  

Renowned transvestite sexologist: From a user point of view, Windows 8's interface is neither good at being a desktop machine or a tablet. No one wants two completely separate desktop environments that have two different modes of operation and two different application interfaces on the same same machine.

To think otherwise is to be delusional.


You couldn't be more wrong. A tablet/laptop combo is exactly what everybody wants.
 
2013-01-20 03:47:18 PM  

Flint Ironstag: illegal.tender: One of our admins at work had Win 8 on his comp. I do t know for how long, but I walked by his desk on Friday and noticed he had put 7 back on it.

Yeah.

How could you tell by walking past? W8 Desktop can look exactly the same as 7.


Not if you see a start button.
 
2013-01-20 03:49:30 PM  

Flint Ironstag: [img252.imageshack.us image 724x432]


You're going to have to change some of the dates around, 2002 sounds very late; I distinctly remember 'Pen Editions' of Win3.1x.

If you're going to try and bait people you should at least do so in a way that doesn't make you look like an idiot hmm?
 
2013-01-20 03:54:30 PM  
As soon as you take away a consumer's ability to build their own device from component parts, you take away their power. You take away their bargaining position, their ability to comparison shop. You take away their ability to haggle price, to get the most for their money. You force them to choose one of two solutions: Microsoft or Apple.

There is a reason Apple and other companies want to sell you hardware that is proprietary, closed, and all hardwired onto one board. That way they can overprice it and you can't do anything about it. You can't just yank out the malfunctioning memory stick and replace it with another, a cost of only $30. If it's under warranty, you can get a limited warranty refurb, sure. If it's not under warranty, you'll be paying several hundred dollars for a new one though. That's in their interest, not yours.

That's why Apple pays so much attention to case design. Because they know a consumer will choose against their own interest if the thing is shiny and smooth and curvy enough. They'll pay out the nose for it, and they'll ask for more.

That's why I'll post this message every time some "tech writer" writes one of these stupid articles.
 
2013-01-20 04:03:39 PM  

Rent Party: I love my farking Surface. You can have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Surface in real life, just two days ago.

Me: End of day, playing solitare. Up walks Highly Respected Coworker.

HRC: What's happenin'

Me: Nothing much. Hey, you have a minute, I want to walk you through a business plan I'm cooking up.

HRC: Sure.

Me: Flips to PowerPoint, opens presentation stored on DropBox, walks through presentation.

HRC: That's a good idea, where did your revenue and cost figures come from?

Me: Flips to Excel, opens up financing spreadsheets also on DropBox, walks HRC through the numbers.

HRC: That makes sense, give me a call next week and we can do some more work ont it.

Me: No problems. Thanks for the ear. Goes back to playing solitaire.

I like the Surface because I can Angry Bird as much as I want, and still do real work.


Wow you store sensitive company data on Dropbox. That has stupid written all over it. I'm sure both your IT department and IT Security would love to hear their stuff is being stored on a server they have no control over.
 
2013-01-20 04:07:11 PM  
The thing I find funny is the people who claim Metro is great and then go on to give us the ways that they avoid Metro like having multiple monitors, or installing 3rd party apps to handle PDF docs, etc.
 
2013-01-20 04:11:37 PM  
Flint Ironstag

Had they left Desktop alone (XP/W7 layout) and had Metro as an option then I'm convinced W8 would have been a fantastic hit. Future proof! Touchscreen ready! Perfect for this Surface machine that can be used as a tablet or as a laptop!
Instead they took away lots of Desktop controls and replaced them with touchscreen controls and/or keyboard shortcuts.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. But unfortunately that also flies in the face of Corporate interests in promoting a "universal" interface and allowing them to (hopefully) bridge the gap between all the product lines.

They also have to compete on the "new, shiny" factor. If they're not offering something new on the interface front every other generation; then just as many people here would be complaining that they are growing stagnant and outdated (as happend a few Windows versions back).
 
2013-01-20 04:21:53 PM  

Seequinn: Had they left Desktop alone


OMFG they took my start button!
 
2013-01-20 04:24:04 PM  

tomerson: Flint Ironstag: illegal.tender: One of our admins at work had Win 8 on his comp. I do t know for how long, but I walked by his desk on Friday and noticed he had put 7 back on it.

Yeah.

How could you tell by walking past? W8 Desktop can look exactly the same as 7.

Not if you see a start button.


I have Windows 8 and a start button.

Classic Shell FTW.
 
2013-01-20 04:25:48 PM  

Vaneshi: Flint Ironstag: [img252.imageshack.us image 724x432]


You're going to have to change some of the dates around, 2002 sounds very late; I distinctly remember 'Pen Editions' of Win3.1x.

If you're going to try and bait people you should at least do so in a way that doesn't make you look like an idiot hmm?


It's an image I found on Fark months ago. I'm not going to cry myself to sleep over it. If there were tablets even earlier then that's just more proof Apple didn't invent them.
 
kab
2013-01-20 04:28:16 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: A tablet/laptop combo is exactly what everybody wants.


You have an unusual definition of 'everybody'.

Here's the issue. PC users, as well as general consumers, have a 'good enough' point. W7 felt like a needed upgrade for most users wanting to move over to 64 bit and use larger amounts of memory. But there's very little out there from an app or hardware point of view that really makes people say 'hey, this is making me consider an OS upgrade', especially when the GUI in W8 is considered more of a drawback than anything.

In short, it's simply too new, too different, and unnecessary for most users. Hence, it will be considered a dud, even if most of that is word-of-mouth opinion.
 
2013-01-20 04:31:42 PM  

kab: You have an unusual definition of 'everybody'.


Tablets are outselling desktops and laptops these days. Yeah, everybody.
 
2013-01-20 04:34:37 PM  

natmar_76: As soon as you take away a consumer's ability to build their own device from component parts, you take away their power. You take away their bargaining position, their ability to comparison shop. You take away their ability to haggle price, to get the most for their money. You force them to choose one of two solutions: Microsoft or Apple.

There is a reason Apple and other companies want to sell you hardware that is proprietary, closed, and all hardwired onto one board. That way they can overprice it and you can't do anything about it. You can't just yank out the malfunctioning memory stick and replace it with another, a cost of only $30. If it's under warranty, you can get a limited warranty refurb, sure. If it's not under warranty, you'll be paying several hundred dollars for a new one though. That's in their interest, not yours.

That's why Apple pays so much attention to case design. Because they know a consumer will choose against their own interest if the thing is shiny and smooth and curvy enough. They'll pay out the nose for it, and they'll ask for more.

That's why I'll post this message every time some "tech writer" writes one of these stupid articles.


This is why traditional desktop PCs are going to be around for a long time. I bought my XP PC in 2001 from a PC store. Three months later the power supply died. Though it was under warranty it was far quicker and easier for me to walk into Maplins (sort of like Radio Shack) and say "Power supply for a PC" and have the guy hand one over without even needing to ask what make it was. Cost me £17 (about $25) and that lasted five years until I needed to replace it when I upgraded the mobo and needed more power. Over the next ten years I upgraded everything in that PC at least once apart from the case and the floppy drive. I still use it as my second PC. Repairing or upgrading it is like playing LEGO, you can just swap parts around with ease.

I also had a Sony all in one PC that I picked up very cheap. It's PSU died, and the thing became a paperweight. It's PSU was a one-off Sony design that only they sold and they charged a couple of hundred pounds for it.

Thanks to IBM deciding to build their first PC quickly using off the shelf parts we still have to this day the ability to fix and upgrade PCs with ease that no other consumer product can match.
 
2013-01-20 04:37:34 PM  

zeroeffect: Newton


Eat up Martha.
 
2013-01-20 04:40:10 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Seequinn: Had they left Desktop alone

OMFG they took my start button!


If you bought a new Ford and found they'd hidden the ignition key in the glove box or behind the passenger seat you'd complain.

It was the main control for opening programmes, settings, searches etc. They took it away and replaced it with making you move the mouse to a hidden corner for some uses, a different corner for other uses, and having to slide down from those corners for other uses again.

If you had to reach over to the glove box to start your new car you'd get over it. But why should you when leaving the key on the steering wheel, where you are used to it being and where it is quick and easy to reach is far better?
 
2013-01-20 04:47:57 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Vaneshi: Flint Ironstag: [img252.imageshack.us image 724x432]


You're going to have to change some of the dates around, 2002 sounds very late; I distinctly remember 'Pen Editions' of Win3.1x.

If you're going to try and bait people you should at least do so in a way that doesn't make you look like an idiot hmm?

It's an image I found on Fark months ago. I'm not going to cry myself to sleep over it. If there were tablets even earlier then that's just more proof Apple didn't invent them.


Alexander Graham Bell didn't invent the telephone and Edison didn't invent the light bulb. People who get credit for major inventions usually aren't the first person to think of it but the first to market and sell it effectively.
 
2013-01-20 04:50:06 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Tablets are outselling desktops and laptops these days. Yeah, everybody.


That's only because the people with laptops and PCs already have one that does the job, so the morons with cash are outnumbering the sensible people with a working tool.
 
2013-01-20 04:57:43 PM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: Rent Party: I love my farking Surface. You can have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Surface in real life, just two days ago.

Me: End of day, playing solitare. Up walks Highly Respected Coworker.

HRC: What's happenin'

Me: Nothing much. Hey, you have a minute, I want to walk you through a business plan I'm cooking up.

HRC: Sure.

Me: Flips to PowerPoint, opens presentation stored on DropBox, walks through presentation.

HRC: That's a good idea, where did your revenue and cost figures come from?

Me: Flips to Excel, opens up financing spreadsheets also on DropBox, walks HRC through the numbers.

HRC: That makes sense, give me a call next week and we can do some more work ont it.

Me: No problems. Thanks for the ear. Goes back to playing solitaire.

I like the Surface because I can Angry Bird as much as I want, and still do real work.

Wow you store sensitive company data on Dropbox. That has stupid written all over it. I'm sure both your IT department and IT Security would love to hear their stuff is being stored on a server they have no control over.


No I store high level PowerPoint presentations on drop box. Those belong to me and the entire point of them is to show them to people.

My IT people do what I tell them, not the other way around.


You're a farking idiot, for the record. So get back in your cube so the grownups can talk.
 
2013-01-20 04:59:12 PM  
In very short order you will not be able to buy any PC that does not have a touch screen. The current generation using Ipads and smart phones will demand it.
 
kab
2013-01-20 05:04:48 PM  

Irregardless: In very short order you will not be able to buy any PC that does not have a touch screen. The current generation using Ipads and smart phones will demand it.


Good luck with that.
 
2013-01-20 05:06:30 PM  

Flint Ironstag: This is why traditional desktop PCs are going to be around for a long time. I bought my XP PC in 2001 from a PC store. Three months later the power supply died. Though it was under warranty it was far quicker and easier for me to walk into Maplins (sort of like Radio Shack) and say "Power supply for a PC" and have the guy hand one over without even needing to ask what make it was. Cost me £17 (about $25) and that lasted five years until I needed to replace it when I upgraded the mobo and needed more power. Over the next ten years I upgraded everything in that PC at least once apart from the case and the floppy drive. I still use it as my second PC. Repairing or upgrading it is like playing LEGO, you can just swap parts around with ease.


The ironic thing is that nowadays, upgrades are a doddle. Adding a SATA SSD drive today was simply plug a couple of cables in (that can't be reversed), fit in a bay, change the boot sequence and off we go. The Windows 8 upgrade was pretty easy (although the Metro stuff is garbage). It found drivers for everything. My wireless keyboard, mouse, video driver, all fine.
 
2013-01-20 05:33:42 PM  

Irregardless: In very short order you will not be able to buy any PC that does not have a touch screen. The current generation using Ipads and smart phones will demand it.


I don't understand people like you and your bizarre prognostications. It's like you think that because touch screens exist, only touch screens exist.

That's just not true.
 
2013-01-20 05:34:44 PM  
I've never owned a laptop that was designed so badly it required a kickstand, and I never will.
 
2013-01-20 05:35:03 PM  

farkeruk: Flint Ironstag: This is why traditional desktop PCs are going to be around for a long time. I bought my XP PC in 2001 from a PC store. Three months later the power supply died. Though it was under warranty it was far quicker and easier for me to walk into Maplins (sort of like Radio Shack) and say "Power supply for a PC" and have the guy hand one over without even needing to ask what make it was. Cost me £17 (about $25) and that lasted five years until I needed to replace it when I upgraded the mobo and needed more power. Over the next ten years I upgraded everything in that PC at least once apart from the case and the floppy drive. I still use it as my second PC. Repairing or upgrading it is like playing LEGO, you can just swap parts around with ease.

The ironic thing is that nowadays, upgrades are a doddle. Adding a SATA SSD drive today was simply plug a couple of cables in (that can't be reversed), fit in a bay, change the boot sequence and off we go. The Windows 8 upgrade was pretty easy (although the Metro stuff is garbage). It found drivers for everything. My wireless keyboard, mouse, video driver, all fine.


I actually had to get a new video card, my old dual monitor one didn't like W8. Apart from that it went like a dream, even installing Thunderbird to replace Outlook.
 
2013-01-20 05:39:02 PM  

Irregardless: In very short order you will not be able to buy any PC that does not have a touch screen. The current generation using Ipads and smart phones will demand it.


Sit at my desk and have to raise my arms up to shoulder height at full stretch to reach the screen? Fark that. I'll stick with my trackerball where my hand rests on it and I barely have to move my fingers.

Touchscreen PCs may be great if you work behind the counter at McDonalds but for everyone else it would be like going from a car with power steering to one without. In fact I've just ordered two new widescreen monitors for my PC to get the higher resolution to be able to Snap metro apps, and it's an excuse to get two nice new monitors of course. But I didn't consider touchscreen for a second.
 
2013-01-20 05:43:50 PM  

farkeruk: hat's only because the people with laptops and PCs already have one that does the job


And they'll never need to buy another one, right?
 
2013-01-20 05:48:26 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: farkeruk: hat's only because the people with laptops and PCs already have one that does the job

And they'll never need to buy another one, right?


My PC lasted well over ten years as my main PC, and I'm still using it. They're so easy to upgrade, why buy a new one? Lots of companies use a PC for a specific job, and if it does that job today it will do that in twenty years time. For routine office email or WP duties a ten year old XP machine will do the job the same as a brand new machine, so why waste money if the old one still works?
 
2013-01-20 05:53:28 PM  

Flint Ironstag: My PC lasted well over ten years as my main PC, and I'm still using it. They're so easy to upgrade, why buy a new one? Lots of companies use a PC for a specific job, and if it does that job today it will do that in twenty years time. For routine office email or WP duties a ten year old XP machine will do the job the same as a brand new machine, so why waste money if the old one still works?


Most people couldn't care less about desktop PC's anymore. I know a lot of people who are already using tablets as their only device and most others are using laptops. Combining those two into one device is the wave of the future and it's already happening.
 
2013-01-20 05:54:52 PM  
windows 8 lets you disable metro UI if you wish.

/the reason windows 8 isn't taking off is because idiots can't be bothered to ask if it can be turned off, windows 8 offers nothing that is must have compared to windows 7, and a lot of gamers will spend $5000 on a gaming rig and refuse to spend $100 for windows 7, choosing instead to run a pirate version of XP because it handles their 16Gigyibyters of Ramula more betterer. ಠ_ಠ
 
2013-01-20 05:59:53 PM  

Rent Party: No I store high level PowerPoint presentations on drop box. Those belong to me and the entire point of them is to show them to people.

My IT people do what I tell them, not the other way around.


And that attitude is why it takes so long for any of your tickets to get resolved.

Are those sales and revenue figures something that finance has approved for public dissemination? If they are, I don't see a problem with them on dropbox.

Finance data like revenue and sales figures generally isn't meant to be very public though.
 
2013-01-20 06:00:55 PM  

fluffy2097: windows 8 lets you disable metro UI if you wish.

/the reason windows 8 isn't taking off is because idiots can't be bothered to ask if it can be turned off, windows 8 offers nothing that is must have compared to windows 7, and a lot of gamers will spend $5000 on a gaming rig and refuse to spend $100 for windows 7, choosing instead to run a pirate version of XP because it handles their 16Gigyibyters of Ramula more betterer. ಠ_ಠ


How do you disable Metro? Without a third party app like Classic Shell or Start 8?
 
2013-01-20 06:06:42 PM  

Flint Ironstag: fluffy2097: windows 8 lets you disable metro UI if you wish.

/the reason windows 8 isn't taking off is because idiots can't be bothered to ask if it can be turned off, windows 8 offers nothing that is must have compared to windows 7, and a lot of gamers will spend $5000 on a gaming rig and refuse to spend $100 for windows 7, choosing instead to run a pirate version of XP because it handles their 16Gigyibyters of Ramula more betterer. ಠ_ಠ

How do you disable Metro? Without a third party app like Classic Shell or Start 8?


Yes, I'm interested in this as well. I use ClassicShell, it's great.

The problem with Win8 is that MS is pissing off all their loyal users in an effort to force Metro down their throats. We'll see if this gamble pays off.
 
2013-01-20 06:10:41 PM  

oh_please: Yes, I'm interested in this as well. I use ClassicShell, it's great.

The problem with Win8 is that MS is pissing off all their loyal users in an effort to force Metro down their throats. We'll see if this gamble pays off.


In the preview there was a Group Policy setting that did it, but they removed it by RTM. AFAIK there is no way. Microsoft is forcing their idiotic frankengui on everyone now.

I wouldn't even mind so much if Metro worked and they made it the new interface, but on a traditional device Metro is beyond pointless and it just serves as a jarring 2nd interface as you flop between it and the desktop like a landed fish.
 
2013-01-20 06:12:00 PM  

oh_please: The problem with Win8 is that MS is pissing off all their loyal users in an effort to force Metro down their throats. We'll see if this gamble pays off.


If they were trying to force it down your throat, they would have done away with the standard desktop. I can't beleive that people are freaking out so much about losing the start button. Mouse down to the lower right corner and right click. Really, is that asking too much?
 
2013-01-20 06:19:34 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Mouse down to the lower right corner and right click.


That does not bring up the start button.
 
2013-01-20 06:21:53 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: That does not bring up the start button.


My mistake, left corner.
 
2013-01-20 06:21:55 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: oh_please: The problem with Win8 is that MS is pissing off all their loyal users in an effort to force Metro down their throats. We'll see if this gamble pays off.

If they were trying to force it down your throat, they would have done away with the standard desktop. I can't beleive that people are freaking out so much about losing the start button. Mouse down to the lower right corner and right click. Really, is that asking too much?


Replace a familiar operation that opened a hierarchical ordered menu leading to your selection without needing to click until you got to your choice with a hidden button that opens an explorer window that you need to navigate by scrolling to find your choice?

Again, that's Ford taking the ignition key off the steering wheel and hiding it in the glove box. "It's still there!", just harder to find. And at least that you'd only have to use once a journey!
 
2013-01-20 06:25:18 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Vegan Meat Popsicle: That does not bring up the start button.

My mistake, left corner.


Shouldn't laugh really, but when explaining how easy it is to find and even you make a mistake. That sums it up perfectly. Everyone knew where the Start button was. But even someone saying how easy W8 is to use gets it wrong when saying where the new control is. Now multiply that by thousands of office drones who barely know how to cut n paste trying to get used to a new W8 PC and struggling to remember what they ned to do to bring up this or that with hidden buttons and you have a training and tech support nightmare.
 
2013-01-20 06:26:12 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: My mistake, left corner.


That does not bring up the start button.

It brings up what is essentially a subset of the administrative tools and control panel items. A nice start, but less efficient than just hitting the start menu key on my keyboard while I'm typing and flipping to it with the arrow keys. And it doesn't include what I really need anyway: my programs nicely organized.

I can just splatter my shiat at home on the desktop like a common idiot since it's mostly just games, but, at work, that doesn't really cut it.

I find it amazing that on an OS that is ostensibly about point and click/touch the only real way to be productive is to learn all the keyboard shortcuts and Powershell cmdlets.
 
2013-01-20 06:28:29 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: And it doesn't include what I really need anyway: my programs nicely organized.


You have two options for that, placing them on your desktop or on the Metro UI. I'd guess that 99% of users place icons to commonly used programs on their desktop and don't go to the start menu to access them.
 
2013-01-20 06:33:36 PM  

fluffy2097: Rent Party: No I store high level PowerPoint presentations on drop box. Those belong to me and the entire point of them is to show them to people.

My IT people do what I tell them, not the other way around.

And that attitude is why it takes so long for any of your tickets to get resolved.

Are those sales and revenue figures something that finance has approved for public dissemination? If they are, I don't see a problem with them on dropbox.

Finance data like revenue and sales figures generally isn't meant to be very public though.


Oh. I've worked for guys like this before.

Stalling on IT tickets is puerile. Besides, I'd much rather be a high profile miracle worker to your idiot self not being able to figure out how to use the projector (note: they don't offer classes on using a projector; you don't even need to read the manual so much as look at the little pictures) than thanklessly figure out the headscratcher production issues anyway.

What Rent Party's manuever tends to do is get us to update our resumes and freshen up our professional network in case Dropbox gets Megaupload'd. Often times the very act of doing this finds us an easier-to-deal with brand of asshole who pays better. Then you get your PTO to under 40 hours in case they decide to play shenanigans with your bennies, drop a resignation, and "train" the new person. ("You'll figure it out. Good luck.")

It's nothing to get angry about. We're not legally liable for executive stupidity, we generally don't own stock in the company, and it tends to work out in our favor more often than not.

Keep on keeping on, Rent Party. You're doing it right.
 
2013-01-20 06:33:56 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: oh_please: The problem with Win8 is that MS is pissing off all their loyal users in an effort to force Metro down their throats. We'll see if this gamble pays off.

If they were trying to force it down your throat, they would have done away with the standard desktop. I can't beleive that people are freaking out so much about losing the start button. Mouse down to the lower right corner and right click. Really, is that asking too much?


Ok, let me spell it out.

Every person that I've had to support that bought a PC with Win8 FARKING HATES IT.

I install ClassicShell, explain to them that it's a third-party app, and there is NO support whatsoever.

My clients say, " I don't care, it works now"

If you have to install a third-party app to make your core base like your UI, YOU HAVE FAILED.
 
2013-01-20 06:37:27 PM  

oh_please: Every person that I've had to support that bought a PC with Win8 FARKING HATES IT.


Are you IT support for Wal-mart?
 
2013-01-20 06:38:49 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: If they were trying to force it down your throat, they would have done away with the standard desktop. I can't beleive that people are freaking out so much about losing the start button. Mouse down to the lower right corner and right click. Really, is that asking too much?


Yes. Yes it is.

I've spent 15 years with the start button. I know precisely how it operates. My brain is trained for Windows 7. How do I shut it down? I don't have to think too hard about it. Now, I'm sure if I didn't use Start 8, I'd learn how to do it in Win 8, the Win 8 way, but you know, I'm not sensing that there's any benefit for me over doing things the way I do them now.

The whole tablet interface and Metro is about the MS directors looking hip, to convince the shareholders that they know what they are doing, and could be Apple.
 
2013-01-20 06:40:36 PM  

farkeruk: The whole tablet interface and Metro is about the MS directors looking hip, to convince the shareholders that they know what they are doing, and could be Apple.


Metro is about being in front of the next big thing in computing.
 
2013-01-20 06:41:35 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: oh_please: Every person that I've had to support that bought a PC with Win8 FARKING HATES IT.

Are you IT support for Wal-mart?


I wonder how many PCs WalMart buys? Maybe pissing off large corporate customers by making your new OS harder and confusing to use isn't a good idea?
 
2013-01-20 06:44:54 PM  

oh_please: My clients say, " I don't care, it works now"


Every developer I know on Windows, include the sort of hardcore devs that write books about Windows development, is using Start8. The only defenders of Metro that I've heard are Microsoft employees.
 
2013-01-20 06:45:47 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: farkeruk: The whole tablet interface and Metro is about the MS directors looking hip, to convince the shareholders that they know what they are doing, and could be Apple.

Metro is about being in front of the next big thing in computing.


Having Metro as an option on W8 would have done that. Leaving Desktop alone, or a tweek/restyle of XP/7, and have Metro be an option would have allowed them to make one product that was better under the hood, easy to use and familiar to millions of customers and been future proof for tablets and touchscreen down the line. I'm convinced that would have been a hit.

You win over customers by adding things. Not by taking things away. Especially things they've spent over a decade using and know like the back of their hand.
 
2013-01-20 06:47:12 PM  

farkeruk: oh_please: My clients say, " I don't care, it works now"

Every developer I know on Windows, include the sort of hardcore devs that write books about Windows development, is using Start8. The only defenders of Metro that I've heard are Microsoft employees.


Classic Shell is free....

/Yes, I'm cheap.
 
2013-01-20 06:48:02 PM  

farkeruk: The only defenders of Metro that I've heard are Microsoft employees.


Metro is pretty pointless on my desktop, I only upgraded because I was curious and got it for $14.99. What metro is good for is tablets and hybrids which is obviously what it was designed for. This will be the last desktop I own, my next computer will be a hybrid. Tablet 95% of the time, laptop when I need it.
 
2013-01-20 06:50:49 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: farkeruk: The whole tablet interface and Metro is about the MS directors looking hip, to convince the shareholders that they know what they are doing, and could be Apple.

Metro is about being in front of the next big thing in computing.


Heh. More like being in front of a train.

Unity did it before Metro and it's generally agreed that Unity was a disaster. Which is especially remarkable since it was free.

I don't really mind so much that Windows has never been on the forefront of computing but it's a special brand of stupid to bundle every bad idea discussed in 2008, do nothing when it failed in part or in whole for others who implemented it first, and then ... what? Act surprised when it blows up in their faces five years later?

/hay guiz, Apple's iphone is totes a walled garden amirite? Lame-o. So lets get in on that.
 
2013-01-20 06:55:01 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Heh. More like being in front of a train.


So you're saying that combination tablet/laptop devices aren't the future of computing?
 
2013-01-20 06:58:56 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Metro is about being in front of the next big thing in computing.


Tablets are toys. OK, there's that guy that writes javascript on his, and I've seen a guy on a train preparing a presentation (painfully) on his iPad, but tablets are mostly toys.

Because of that, no-one cares about Microsoft's version of the toy, which costs as much as an iPad, lacks the hipster value and apps of an iPad.
 
2013-01-20 06:59:02 PM  
Then
img803.imageshack.us
Now
img441.imageshack.us
 
2013-01-20 07:03:23 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You have two options for that, placing them on your desktop or on the Metro UI. I'd guess that 99% of users place icons to commonly used programs on their desktop and don't go to the start menu to access them.


And you'd be right, but it would have been nice if they'd fixed that deficient behavior by offering a strong alternative than just having you splatter them across the start menu like vomit instead of splattering them across the desktop like vomit.

Given the poor sales so far, it seems like the solution offered by Microsoft ultimately works for nobody.
 
2013-01-20 07:08:15 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: oh_please: Every person that I've had to support that bought a PC with Win8 FARKING HATES IT.

Are you IT support for Wal-mart?


You don't get it, do you?

I support end users that have worked with Windows all their lives. They buy a new Windows PC and suddenly nothing works the way it's worked, farking EVER. If you have to Google how to close a program, that's a big problem. These people run the gamut from businesses who depend on Windows to run their shiat, to people who just want to send a farking email. Honestly, nobody wants to take the time to learn a new UI, especially when there's no tangible benefits.

The truth is that MS is trying to force Metro down everyone's throats in an attempt to sell tablets and phones. Maybe it'll work.
 
2013-01-20 07:09:04 PM  

Rent Party: TheGhostofFarkPast: Rent Party: I love my farking Surface. You can have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands.


No I store high level PowerPoint presentations on drop box. Those belong to me and the entire point of them is to show them to people.

My IT people do what I tell them, not the other way around.


You're a farking idiot, for the record. So get back in your cube so the grownups can talk.


haha please tell me this was a sarcastic post and you aren't this big of a d-bag in real life? Cube? Please I bet money my office is at least two to three times larger than yours with ease.
If you were smart you would go get something like ActivEcho and avoid having to explain to auditors down the road why your info was sitting on a server that your company can't control. Or you can keep being the d-bag you are and continue to run good talent away due to that wonderful attitude of yours.
 
2013-01-20 07:18:29 PM  

East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.

Desktop windows still exist, do that if you want to. Nothing stopping you. I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.

Serious question: is there anything you can do in Win8 that you could not have done in Win7?

One of the big reasons I haven't switched is that I need to be productive at work every day. Losing a day or two (or even an hour or two) to getting all of this reorganized and figured out really isn't an option. I could sell it, if I had something new that would make my life easier and make me more productive, but I haven't seen that "killer app" yet. So, what is it?


No. I'm actually reinstalling Windows 7 tomorrow over Windows 8. "metro" (or whatever it's called this week) just gets in the way.
 
2013-01-20 07:21:36 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Vaneshi: Flint Ironstag: [img252.imageshack.us image 724x432]


You're going to have to change some of the dates around, 2002 sounds very late; I distinctly remember 'Pen Editions' of Win3.1x.

If you're going to try and bait people you should at least do so in a way that doesn't make you look like an idiot hmm?

It's an image I found on Fark months ago. I'm not going to cry myself to sleep over it. If there were tablets even earlier then that's just more proof Apple didn't invent them.


Who said Apple invented the tablet? Or the smartphone? or the mouse? or the computer?

No one but idiots who believe Steve Jobs personally fark'n rm as a child.

/the first tablets did succeed because they were shiat
 
2013-01-20 07:24:11 PM  

oh_please: The truth is that MS is trying to force Metro down everyone's throats in an attempt to sell tablets and phones. Maybe it'll work.


Unlikely.

For one thing, there's all this blather about businesses buying tablets, but frankly, businesses don't care about tablets except in a few specific examples. If they'd wanted tablets, the original ones from 2002-2003 would have sold in greater numbers. OK, there's the plug-in keyboard, but at which point, why does touchscreen matter to you?

For everyone else, they mostly use the tablet as a toy/leisure device and Android and Apple both have better offerings than what Microsoft have.
 
2013-01-20 07:25:02 PM  

farkeruk: Tablets are toys. OK, there's that guy that writes javascript on his, and I've seen a guy on a train preparing a presentation (painfully) on his iPad, but tablets are mostly toys.


You obviously haven't been paying attention to what's been going on with tablets, have you? Scroll up and you'll see a couple of examples that I posted of hybrids that have recently been released. They're full fledged laptops that can be folded up to be a tablet.

I'll even bet that in a year or two, desk top monitors will be detachable from a dock so you can use them as a tablet.
 
2013-01-20 07:29:24 PM  

Rent Party: I love my farking Surface. You can have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Surface in real life, just two days ago.

Me: End of day, playing solitare. Up walks Highly Respected Coworker.

HRC: What's happenin'

Me: Nothing much. Hey, you have a minute, I want to walk you through a business plan I'm cooking up.

HRC: Sure.

Me: Flips to PowerPoint, opens presentation stored on DropBox, walks through presentation.

HRC: That's a good idea, where did your revenue and cost figures come from?

Me: Flips to Excel, opens up financing spreadsheets also on DropBox, walks HRC through the numbers.

HRC: That makes sense, give me a call next week and we can do some more work ont it.

Me: No problems. Thanks for the ear. Goes back to playing solitaire.

I like the Surface because I can Angry Bird as much as I want, and still do real work.


So just like an iPad then?

/do they know you are saving financial information on an insecure cloud service?
 
2013-01-20 07:30:27 PM  

farkeruk: For everyone else, they mostly use the tablet as a toy/leisure device and Android and Apple both have better offerings than what Microsoft have.


That's the market they're trying to get into.

The thinking is, they'll force Metro (Win8) onto the PC market, say, "they'll get used to it",  then hope when it's time to buy their next tablet/phone, they'll buy Windows, because they're already used to the interface, and it'll work with their computer.

Profit????
 
2013-01-20 07:31:58 PM  
I tried bigass touchscreen Windows in the mall today. The rep asked if I had any questions and basically it was "how the hell does this work" instead of, say, "what problem does this solve" which would probably be less welcome.

So there's a 27" widescreen monitor and a bunch of icons. It's a touchscreen, but there's a mouse and keyboard available. I poke Maps and goof around, find the Smithsonian by pinch-zooming in a few seconds. Cool. Um. How do I get out? There are three little dots on the bottom left, like in Android ICS. Ugh. Maybe this one's Back. Oh wait, that doesn't do anything. Next one. That's the volume control. What?

I give up, go back to the keyboard. Esc? No. Windows key. Aha! I'm on the desktop again. After a few more failures, another rep appears to answer questions.

Turns out I can close a program by slicing it in half.... like Fruit Ninja. What? I can also switch programs by sliding from left edge to right, and I can drag a drawer of open programs out from the side of the screen.

1. None of this is obvious. I'm 28 and I couldn't figure this out. I tried out the new gestures and I sucked at them. Couldn't remember or couldn't use correctly. Could someone over 60?
2. None of this makes sense. Pinch-to-zoom has no real-world analogue, but it's intuitive. Slice-to-close is just weird.
3. Removing the chrome - the interface frame that lets you manipulate the program - is crazy. On a 22" screen there's plenty of room for close buttons, back buttons and taskbars, and no real need for gestures.
4. Who is this for? A large touch screen solves the "R&D made this large touch screen" problem, not anything in real life. It's not large enough to be shared (teaching, presentations), and not small enough to be personal.
5. This nonsensical device that fixes no problems and appeals to no one will probably be adopted by half the country in five years like ipad and I'll eat my words.
 
2013-01-20 07:33:54 PM  

gingerjet: East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.

Desktop windows still exist, do that if you want to. Nothing stopping you. I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.

Serious question: is there anything you can do in Win8 that you could not have done in Win7?

One of the big reasons I haven't switched is that I need to be productive at work every day. Losing a day or two (or even an hour or two) to getting all of this reorganized and figured out really isn't an option. I could sell it, if I had something new that would make my life easier and make me more productive, but I haven't seen that "killer app" yet. So, what is it?

No. I'm actually reinstalling Windows 7 tomorrow over Windows 8. "metro" (or whatever it's called this week) just gets in the way.


Give Classic Shell a try first. It's great, and does exactly what it says. Having gone from XP to 8 it's a doddle. The advantages of 8 are still there, things like Restore, backup, remote desktop etc.
 
2013-01-20 07:36:59 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: farkeruk: Tablets are toys. OK, there's that guy that writes javascript on his, and I've seen a guy on a train preparing a presentation (painfully) on his iPad, but tablets are mostly toys.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to what's been going on with tablets, have you? Scroll up and you'll see a couple of examples that I posted of hybrids that have recently been released. They're full fledged laptops that can be folded up to be a tablet.

I'll even bet that in a year or two, desk top monitors will be detachable from a dock so you can use them as a tablet.


So, what's the benefit to me of a hybrid? The device comes with a keyboard, a fast, reliable input device. When would I be using the slow, unreliable touchscreen?
 
2013-01-20 07:38:11 PM  

farkeruk: So, what's the benefit to me of a hybrid? The device comes with a keyboard, a fast, reliable input device. When would I be using the slow, unreliable touchscreen?


So you're asking why anybody would want to use a tablet?
 
2013-01-20 07:38:23 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Heh. More like being in front of a train.

So you're saying that combination tablet/laptop devices aren't the future of computing?


Sorry, I was under the impression that you were talking about "the future of computing" in that sort of wide-eyed optimistic and evolutionary sense of the word. I didn't realize you were being sarcastic. Sure, combination tablet/laptop devices are the future of computing in the same way that heat-sensitive color-changing fabric was the future of textiles. We in IT realize that we'll have to support it as part of our jobs but we're not particularly excited about it.

My prediction is that this is going to go the way of the netbook: a novelty with limited utility that will extinguish quickly now that Microsoft has fully extended and embraced it. In two years Google Glasses will be all the rage and the Surface will be buried next to the Kin while Microsoft introduces the Splort EyeGoggles or some such stupid thing.
 
2013-01-20 07:39:41 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: We in IT realize that we'll have to support it as part of our jobs but we're not particularly excited about it.


Nobody really cares what IT nerds think. Computer sales are driven by your average consumer and they've already shown that they want tablets.
 
2013-01-20 07:41:14 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: So you're asking why anybody would want to use a tablet?


Well, I'm always asking that question, but in this case, it's not a tablet, it's a device which already has the more productive keyboard.
 
2013-01-20 07:42:59 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: We in IT realize that we'll have to support it as part of our jobs but we're not particularly excited about it.

Nobody really cares what IT nerds think.


Yeah, we know. :( It's not like we're professionals or anything.

We pal around with the Accounting/Finance and Legal folks on smoke breaks to commiserate.
 
2013-01-20 07:43:36 PM  

farkeruk: Well, I'm always asking that question, but in this case, it's not a tablet, it's a device which already has the more productive keyboard.


So you'd rather lay around on the couch or in bed, surfing the internet on a laptop than a tablet? You'd be in the overwhelming minority if true.
 
2013-01-20 07:47:15 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: My prediction is that this is going to go the way of the netbook: a novelty with limited utility that will extinguish quickly now that Microsoft has fully extended and embraced it. In two years Google Glasses will be all the rage and the Surface will be buried next to the Kin while Microsoft introduces the Splort EyeGoggles or some such stupid thing.


The netbook at least served a need for a time - if you couldn't afford a laptop, you got a netbook. Laptops got cheap enough and people stopped buying netbooks.
 
2013-01-20 07:48:40 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: It's not like we're professionals


I've known a lot of IT nerds, professional isn't a term I'd use to describe any of them. Most of what your kind does can be learned by searching Google.
 
2013-01-20 07:52:42 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: It's not like we're professionals

I've known a lot of IT nerds, professional isn't a term I'd use to describe any of them. Most of what your kind does can be learned by searching Google.


I farking hate when some IT dumbass has decided to invest in get scammed by obscure bullshiat software that Google can't help me fix.
 
2013-01-20 07:58:23 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: We in IT realize that we'll have to support it as part of our jobs but we're not particularly excited about it.

Nobody really cares what IT nerds think. Computer sales are driven by your average consumer and they've already shown that they want tablets

hate Windows 8

FTFY
 
2013-01-20 08:12:23 PM  

moothemagiccow: I farking hate when some IT dumbass has decided to invest in get scammed by obscure bullshiat software that Google can't help me fix.


Heh. Sharepoint.

I have seen so many careers killed over Sharepoint.

Popcorn Johnny: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: It's not like we're professionals

I've known a lot of __________ , professional isn't a term I'd use to describe any of them. Most of what your kind does can be learned by searching Google.


Meh. You can pretty much fill in the blank there. Hell, I live in a city full of doctors and lawyers; we all joke about being professional Googleologists over beer. Even the sales guys get their leads mostly through Google.

Hell, even the more industrial professions are not immune. Thanks to Google I know how to make my own sushi.

/one day it'll kill us all
//Google, I mean, the sushi is delicious
 
2013-01-20 08:50:41 PM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: Rent Party: TheGhostofFarkPast: Rent Party: I love my farking Surface. You can have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands.


No I store high level PowerPoint presentations on drop box. Those belong to me and the entire point of them is to show them to people.

My IT people do what I tell them, not the other way around.


You're a farking idiot, for the record. So get back in your cube so the grownups can talk.

haha please tell me this was a sarcastic post and you aren't this big of a d-bag in real life? Cube? Please I bet money my office is at least two to three times larger than yours with ease.
If you were smart you would go get something like ActivEcho and avoid having to explain to auditors down the road why your info was sitting on a server that your company can't control. Or you can keep being the d-bag you are and continue to run good talent away due to that wonderful attitude of yours.


Well, seeing how it was a "business plan" it more than likely is not company information but rather something this guy is thinking about doing on the side or after leaving. The fact he is playing solitaire at work already tells us that he has no qualms about using company resources for non-company things.
 
2013-01-20 08:55:16 PM  
I'm sitting in a hot tub, typing this on a tablet...


Can't do that on a netbook...
 
2013-01-20 09:39:04 PM  

farkeruk: Popcorn Johnny: So you're asking why anybody would want to use a tablet?

Well, I'm always asking that question, but in this case, it's not a tablet, it's a device which already has the more productive keyboard.


I asked that question until I decided on a whim to get a Nexus 7. I love it. It's much easier to lug around, much more convenient to play with while sprawled out on the couch, and it lets me do 95 percent of what I do on my laptop.

I still need the laptop for work or when I need to type a lot, but Farking and Facebooking and reading the news works just fine on the tablet.

A functional tablet laptop hybrid would be the answer to my dreams, but I think we're a few years away from unifying the devices.
 
2013-01-20 10:12:05 PM  

Anonymous Bosch: I wonder what Microsoft pays for an article like this?


I was thinking the same thing reading that article. He went out of his way to insult tried and true hardware designs and to drool over Win8.
 
2013-01-20 10:12:52 PM  

elchip: farkeruk: Popcorn Johnny: So you're asking why anybody would want to use a tablet?

Well, I'm always asking that question, but in this case, it's not a tablet, it's a device which already has the more productive keyboard.

I asked that question until I decided on a whim to get a Nexus 7. I love it. It's much easier to lug around, much more convenient to play with while sprawled out on the couch, and it lets me do 95 percent of what I do on my laptop.

I still need the laptop for work or when I need to type a lot, but Farking and Facebooking and reading the news works just fine on the tablet.

A functional tablet laptop hybrid would be the answer to my dreams, but I think we're a few years away from unifying the devices.


the Nexus 7 is a quality device, I own once along with an iPad, but it paired with a bluetooth keyboard is killer. Also if your company owns or runs a terminal server or Citrix zen server, and you can get remote access to it then you basically have your laptop online and available to you at every turn. Having a terminal server to log into and knock out any real laptop work you need to does away with the need to have a laptop at ever turn.
 
2013-01-20 11:08:43 PM  

LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.

Desktop windows still exist, do that if you want to. Nothing stopping you. I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.

Serious question: is there anything you can do in Win8 that you could not have done in Win7?

One of the big reasons I haven't switched is that I need to be productive at work every day. Losing a day or two (or even an hour or two) to getting all of this reorganized and figured out really isn't an option. I could sell it, if I had something new that would make my life easier and make me more productive, but I haven't seen that "killer app" yet. So, what is it?

You can mount ISOs directly from the filesystem, which is nice. There are lots of performance improvements to core things, like networking.

Overall, though, would I recommend updating from Windows 7? Not really. If you have a good thing going with Windows 7, just wait on it until you upgrade your PC.


For the record, millions of us have been loading ISOs directly as drives for over a decade. Virtual drives are old hat.
 
2013-01-21 12:21:51 AM  

Flint Ironstag: So why didn't MS do that instead of driving lots of people to a third-party app?


i work on server. i know someone who works on a client team closely related. I asked him the same question

his response: "Do you want to maintain and test two different launch menus, one of them based on code that is older than most highschoolers today?"
 
2013-01-21 01:10:02 AM  
My favorite part of Windows 8 threads are the stodgy old men clinging to their beige boxes and telling everyone how touchscreen computing is just a dumb fad for toys. Thanks for the laughs, gents. By the way, do you mind burning us some audio CDs for my disc changer in my car? Thanks in advance.
 
2013-01-21 01:29:19 AM  

Irregardless: In very short order you will not be able to buy any PC that does not have a touch screen. The current generation using Ipads and smart phones will demand it.


I don't sit within arms reach of my screen, either at home or at work. And I don't want to develop "gorilla arm". Mouse and key board please.
 
2013-01-21 01:45:57 AM  

Popcorn Johnny:

I'll even bet that in a year or two, desk top monitors will be detachable from a dock so you can use them as a tablet.

I work in cad all day. A mouse is faster, more precise and allows more flexible input than a touch screen allows. A mousers preferable because one cant see what is being manipulated when your hand is in the way. If my office was forced to work on touch screens instead of mice we would start throwing computers out windows. See also: "gorilla arm" with desktop computers and posture problems related to holding a screen in your lap for 6-8 hours a day.
 
2013-01-21 02:22:31 AM  

Elfich: I work in cad all day. A mouse is faster, more precise and allows more flexible input than a touch screen allows. A mousers preferable because one cant see what is being manipulated when your hand is in the way. If my office was forced to work on touch screens instead of mice we would start throwing computers out windows. See also: "gorilla arm" with desktop computers and posture problems related to holding a screen in your lap for 6-8 hours a day.


Why do so many of you seem to think that mice and keyboards are going to go away? When docked, you'll use your monitor as a monitor. The touchscreen only comes into play when you want to use it as a tablet.
 
2013-01-21 02:42:28 AM  

Elfich: Popcorn Johnny:

I'll even bet that in a year or two, desk top monitors will be detachable from a dock so you can use them as a tablet.

I work in cad all day. A mouse is faster, more precise and allows more flexible input than a touch screen allows. A mousers preferable because one cant see what is being manipulated when your hand is in the way. If my office was forced to work on touch screens instead of mice we would start throwing computers out windows. See also: "gorilla arm" with desktop computers and posture problems related to holding a screen in your lap for 6-8 hours a day.


Think drafting table sized input display (4K resolution) with Wacom style input pen. Throw in a 3D puck mouse for navigation and I guarantee you CAD/BIM designers would run circles around mouse based designers with desktop displays. All the benefits of 3D CAD, with all of the traditional tools architects have used for a century.

Even with working on high resolution 27" displays, the desktop user's layouts are woefully scaled and no where the size of full sized blueprints.

If they built that device, I'd order 10 of them today.
 
2013-01-21 07:20:37 AM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Marcus Aurelius: I'm looking for Microsoft to provide some REAL innovation, like hiding the entire file name instead of just the extension.

I like how it's 2013 and Windows is still dependent on extensions for application associations.

The *nix world did away with that in the 90's. Call the file whatever you want, the OS will figure it out.


...by appending 3 characters to the end of the filename? Sounds like Windows already has it figured out.
 
2013-01-21 08:18:51 AM  

Truth's Urethra: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Marcus Aurelius: I'm looking for Microsoft to provide some REAL innovation, like hiding the entire file name instead of just the extension.

I like how it's 2013 and Windows is still dependent on extensions for application associations.

The *nix world did away with that in the 90's. Call the file whatever you want, the OS will figure it out.

...by appending 3 characters to the end of the filename? Sounds like Windows already has it figured out.


The topic here being innovation.

The 8.3 file format is from the 70s and was improved upon about 10-15 years ago while Windows insists on being stuck in the past.

Speaking of decade old technology, I will say one good thing about Windows 8: at least now it can read S.M.A.R.T. data from disk drives. Took you freaking long enough.
 
2013-01-21 08:45:30 AM  

theurge14: By the way, do you mind burning us some audio CDs for my disc changer in my car?


I'm starting to think this is the best way to play music in the car. The pricey custom stereo I got does crazy shiat and the removable faceplate detaches on its own, loosening the ipod jack, thus phase cancelling the center channel mid-song. The headphone cables I bought slowly got ripped to shreds. The bargain basement ones don't even connect properly.

The Galaxy S3 flat out sucks. It tells me it's up too loud at maximum and turns the volume down between sessions, so when I switch to the radio it's cranked. The S3 sends chatter over the wire between songs, stops playing unexpectedly and interrupts the song with silence when I get an email.
 
2013-01-21 08:56:12 AM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Heh. Sharepoint.

I have seen so many careers killed over Sharepoint.


I wish. You've heard of Sharepoint. I don't know where they dredged up half the stuff they got. They spent $40k on a custom CMS that is worse than any randomfreecms and never gets updated. They could've hired a dev for months (who would've just installed Wordpress), but some Eastern European company hoodwinked them instead. They just don't seem to understand false economy.
 
2013-01-21 09:10:07 AM  

labrat8420: I recently purchased the largest phone known to man (At least since Zach Morris was cool) and with the addition of a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, this has been the easiest navigating web appliance i've ever had. I haven't opened my laptop in a week. When my HDMI-out cable gets here next week to plug this into my 26" monitor, it will be an AWESOME computing platform. I can really see this mobile computing thing taking off even in the home, its seriously easy, and super lazy.

Left click to open, right click to go back, center click to go home, long center click for task manager. Even the standard multimedia controls on the keyboard work without any configuration. I'm seriously blown away. And it assumes i'm a retard on an on-screen keyboard and still capitalizes for me, autocompletes like crazy, etc. This is sweet!


ok, apple h8tr, whatevahthafarkingfarkevah.
 
2013-01-21 09:19:53 AM  

LasersHurt: vudukungfu: LasersHurt: . I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.

security guard, huh?

Support for a software company, work from home.


Hey, that's what I do.
And I used to be a security guard, too.
 
2013-01-21 09:33:03 AM  

vudukungfu: LasersHurt: vudukungfu: LasersHurt: . I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.

security guard, huh?

Support for a software company, work from home.

Hey, that's what I do.
And I used to be a security guard, too.


Do you have a standing desk? I went standing desk and drafting chair if I want to sit at that height, and I'm never looking back.
 
2013-01-21 10:22:54 AM  

WhippingBoy: It has it's flaws, but all in all, it's quite decent.


The phrase "quite decent" is faint praise for a system that has a steep learning curve to really use it well.

/If you spend all the time that it takes to get used to it and figure out what you're doing, it basically works pretty well I suppose.
//Why would anyone get past the first half of that sentence?
 
2013-01-21 11:16:04 AM  

burndtdan: WhippingBoy: It has it's flaws, but all in all, it's quite decent.

The phrase "quite decent" is faint praise for a system that has a steep learning curve to really use it well.

/If you spend all the time that it takes to get used to it and figure out what you're doing, it basically works pretty well I suppose.
//Why would anyone get past the first half of that sentence?


Let's expand on "quite decent", quite anecdotally. Did I mutter to myself the first few times I used it about getting to control panel and closing windows? yep.
Did I mutter to myself that the admin metro tiles should be on be default? yep
Was I pleasantly surprised by built in driver support and the auto device and printer discovery? yep
Do I really like cross device synchronization? hells yeah. Having it consistent across my laptop and the Asus tablet is a really nice feature.

For me the litmus test was how the kids found it.
Upgraded his laptop from Win 7. Gave him the 5 minute tour of quick switching between metro and desktop, hot points for open window access and metro "control panel" and effective use of the windows key. Half hour later he had all the tiles he wanted, where he wanted and off he went.
Her new laptop came with it pre installed. before that she had absconded with my Macbook Air on a regular basis, but wanted her own ultrabook style laptop. Gave her the same 5 minute walk through. Helped her fight through the native Skype install (seriously MS, you need to force the farking thing on there). And she is off to races.

So, for a younger demographic who deals with "tiles" and the notion of a grid layout for things they want to do thanks to Uis like IOS, Wii, ICS and the 360 they had minimal issues once they were given the basic tour. They'll be the ones driving purchases moving forward, so perhaps it isn't such a big clusterfark as everyone is making it out to be.
 
2013-01-21 01:24:18 PM  

MrSteve007: Elfich: Popcorn Johnny:

I'll even bet that in a year or two, desk top monitors will be detachable from a dock so you can use them as a tablet.

I work in cad all day. A mouse is faster, more precise and allows more flexible input than a touch screen allows. A mousers preferable because one cant see what is being manipulated when your hand is in the way. If my office was forced to work on touch screens instead of mice we would start throwing computers out windows. See also: "gorilla arm" with desktop computers and posture problems related to holding a screen in your lap for 6-8 hours a day.

Think drafting table sized input display (4K resolution) with Wacom style input pen. Throw in a 3D puck mouse for navigation and I guarantee you CAD/BIM designers would run circles around mouse based designers with desktop displays. All the benefits of 3D CAD, with all of the traditional tools architects have used for a century.

Even with working on high resolution 27" displays, the desktop user's layouts are woefully scaled and no where the size of full sized blueprints.

If they built that device, I'd order 10 of them today.


Simple reasons why that device won't go any further than the conference room: The space and cost. My work station costs $1000 with the dual monitor setup. That 4k conference room table will cost 30k and only one person can work on it. In addition the space requirement is enormous. Modern offices don't support that because the space required to make one of those productive would take up the space that 3-4 people with office cubes would take.

And I don't see the productivity jump for one person outperforming 3-4 people with 27" flat screens.
 
2013-01-21 01:32:28 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Elfich: I work in cad all day. A mouse is faster, more precise and allows more flexible input than a touch screen allows. A mousers preferable because one cant see what is being manipulated when your hand is in the way. If my office was forced to work on touch screens instead of mice we would start throwing computers out windows. See also: "gorilla arm" with desktop computers and posture problems related to holding a screen in your lap for 6-8 hours a day.

Why do so many of you seem to think that mice and keyboards are going to go away? When docked, you'll use your monitor as a monitor. The touchscreen only comes into play when you want to use it as a tablet.


Docking and undocking is something that people have been trying to sell for the last 20 years with moderate amounts of success. "Use it as a laptop when on the road use it as a desktop when at the office." When I am using a desktop I want the biggest screen available and that means it is something that I don't want to detach and manhandle as a tablet because it is going to be the size of a briefcase and weight in at over 10 pounds.It will sit on my desk and not move. And then it behaves differently depending if it is acting as a screen or a tablet. No fun at all- I would have to learn to entirely different input methods for the same computer.

And you didn't address the posture issues: Hunched over a table for 6-8 hours a day gives people neck and back strain and muscles cramps. It is why you see people with telephone books under their monitors to raise the height up to something reasonable.
 
2013-01-21 02:48:58 PM  

Elfich: Simple reasons why that device won't go any further than the conference room: The space and cost. My work station costs $1000 with the dual monitor setup. That 4k conference room table will cost 30k and only one person can work on it. In addition the space requirement is enormous. Modern offices don't support that because the space required to make one of those productive would take up the space that 3-4 people with office cubes would take.

And I don't see the productivity jump for one person outperforming 3-4 people with 27" flat screens.


You're doing CAD work with a $1,000 computer? I take it isn't very demanding work. Between our hardware and software, we're easily up to $20k a workstation. Heck, I still have the receipts for when we bought our first 2 CAD stations in the early 80's. They were $30k apiece.

Most of our cubes still have old drafting tables around, and the architects still need table area to look over the full or half size printed blueprints before shipping them out to the contractors.
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
Now our designers have all that area above, plus space for their desk with phone, monitors + workstation. For us, being able to combine the CAD work area and layout area to a digital drafting table would be beneficial to space.
 
2013-01-21 03:27:25 PM  

MrSteve007: Elfich: Simple reasons why that device won't go any further than the conference room: The space and cost. My work station costs $1000 with the dual monitor setup. That 4k conference room table will cost 30k and only one person can work on it. In addition the space requirement is enormous. Modern offices don't support that because the space required to make one of those productive would take up the space that 3-4 people with office cubes would take.

And I don't see the productivity jump for one person outperforming 3-4 people with 27" flat screens.

You're doing CAD work with a $1,000 computer? I take it isn't very demanding work. Between our hardware and software, we're easily up to $20k a workstation. Heck, I still have the receipts for when we bought our first 2 CAD stations in the early 80's. They were $30k apiece.

Most of our cubes still have old drafting tables around, and the architects still need table area to look over the full or half size printed blueprints before shipping them out to the contractors.
[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 800x593]
Now our designers have all that area above, plus space for their desk with phone, monitors + workstation. For us, being able to combine the CAD work area and layout area to a digital drafting table would be beneficial to space.


Just standard issue MEP design.
 
2013-01-21 04:30:04 PM  

LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.


If one has Windows 7 already, what's the reason to upgrade then? Seems like everything already works with 7 and I already know its interface.

Not having a more clearcut answer than what I'll get "you'll get used to it" is why 8 isn't setting fire to the market like XP and eventually 7 did.
 
2013-01-21 04:43:12 PM  
I still can't figure out how to get my speaker volume knob to actually work with win7
 
2013-01-21 05:34:12 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

If one has Windows 7 already, what's the reason to upgrade then? Seems like everything already works with 7 and I already know its interface.

Not having a more clearcut answer than what I'll get "you'll get used to it" is why 8 isn't setting fire to the market like XP and eventually 7 did.


If you don't have a touchscreen computer there isn't a big reason to move up to 8. But it's not the end of the world for your next computer. While there is scary change to deal with, as it was so elegantly put once... You'll get over it.
 
2013-01-21 10:26:14 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

If one has Windows 7 already, what's the reason to upgrade then? Seems like everything already works with 7 and I already know its interface.

Not having a more clearcut answer than what I'll get "you'll get used to it" is why 8 isn't setting fire to the market like XP and eventually 7 did.


That, actually, is the crux of the reason for slow Windows 8 sales - there's no serious impetus for upgrading to Windows 8 from Windows 7. It's not like the upgrade from Vista (may it rest in hell) to Windows 7. Windows 8 will gradually replace Windows 7, as it's shipped out on new desktops, laptops, netbooks, tablets, etc., but there's no great rush for Windows 7 folks.

The fun part is watching folks argue as if this was somehow unanticipated. There's a reason Microsoft's stock didn't tank after the claimed "slow sales", unlike the beating Apple received upon the slowdown for the iPhone. Wall Street reacts badly to surprises. Windows 8's adoption rate wasn't a surprise.
 
2013-01-22 12:47:59 PM  

farkeruk: Popcorn Johnny: farkeruk: Tablets are toys. OK, there's that guy that writes javascript on his, and I've seen a guy on a train preparing a presentation (painfully) on his iPad, but tablets are mostly toys.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to what's been going on with tablets, have you? Scroll up and you'll see a couple of examples that I posted of hybrids that have recently been released. They're full fledged laptops that can be folded up to be a tablet.

I'll even bet that in a year or two, desk top monitors will be detachable from a dock so you can use them as a tablet.

So, what's the benefit to me of a hybrid? The device comes with a keyboard, a fast, reliable input device. When would I be using the slow, unreliable touchscreen?


Because there's lots of things that you can do better with a touchscreen, and I hate trying to type with the damn thing sitting in my lap.

I'm so old I'm still pissed about the Startup button. Give me a damn menu at the top left that can't be overwritten- even fullscreen doesn't cover it. What's with the insistence in hiding that your computer is a computer?
 
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