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(C|Net)   Microsoft blazes trail to next PC. And by trail, we mean the Trail of Tears. And by blaze, we mean literally on fire, with people running and screaming, chased by brightly colored non resizable tiles   (reviews.cnet.com) divider line 191
    More: Obvious, Microsoft, Trail of Tears, templates, application software, trails, Windows XP  
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8089 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jan 2013 at 9:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-20 09:12:39 AM
This design is what Windows 8 was made for, use it as a laptop with the traditional desktop or use it as a tablet with touch screen with Metro. It makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is ramming Metro down the throat of people who have a desktop PC that will never have a touchscreen. Hence why I have Classic Shell. With that W8 is great.
 
2013-01-20 09:13:18 AM
Oooooooh, are they going to force us to use their SWELL Metro UI that everyone loves so much?
 
2013-01-20 09:17:52 AM

doczoidberg: Oooooooh, are they going to force us to use their SWELL Metro UI that everyone loves so much?


When you take it away from the keyboard and are carrying it on the bus and using it as a tablet then Metro makes sense. Otherwise I agree, W8 should have a big box come up when you install it saying "Is this a desktop PC or a tablet?" and give you just desktop or just Metro depending on your answer.
 
2013-01-20 09:20:35 AM

Flint Ironstag: doczoidberg: Oooooooh, are they going to force us to use their SWELL Metro UI that everyone loves so much?

When you take it away from the keyboard and are carrying it on the bus and using it as a tablet then Metro makes sense. Otherwise I agree, W8 should have a big box come up when you install it saying "Is this a desktop PC or a tablet?" and give you just desktop or just Metro depending on your answer.


That will be Windows 8 SE
 
2013-01-20 09:24:17 AM
I wonder what Microsoft pays for an article like this?

Also, of course I "remember" the netbook. Out here in the real world where we're not tech reviewers who get handed new hardware like it's farking candy, I see them all the time.
 
2013-01-20 09:27:32 AM
Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.
 
2013-01-20 09:31:14 AM

Nefarious: Flint Ironstag: doczoidberg: Oooooooh, are they going to force us to use their SWELL Metro UI that everyone loves so much?

When you take it away from the keyboard and are carrying it on the bus and using it as a tablet then Metro makes sense. Otherwise I agree, W8 should have a big box come up when you install it saying "Is this a desktop PC or a tablet?" and give you just desktop or just Metro depending on your answer.

That will be Windows 8 SE


That's what gets me. Had MS given people a choice with W8 it would have been received very positively, a OS that is 'future proof', that is ready for touchscreen, that can work on convertible machines like this Surface. It could have been a real hit.
But they blew it. They tried to force everyone into using the Metro start screen, and all the hidden corner buttons, that are very much touch screen features even if the user has a desktop PC that will never have a touchscreen.

As I said in an earlier thread, it would be like Honda deciding to unify their controls between their cars and bikes and fitting all their cars with handlebars, twist grip throttles etc. Honda haven't done that because cars are not bikes. Car controls work for cars, and millions of car drivers are used to them, and bike controls work on bikes. Why try to force everyone to use the same controls?
 
2013-01-20 09:33:03 AM

Marine1: Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.


Such as? Not snarking, curious. I love W8 but use Classic Shell to minimise using Metro as much as possible.
 
2013-01-20 09:33:08 AM
You'll get over it.
 
2013-01-20 09:34:07 AM
Interesting article but how can i trust anything CNET says? How can i be sure CBS isn't taking money for articles in addition to dictating what products they give award to?
 
2013-01-20 09:35:56 AM
Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.
 
2013-01-20 09:37:36 AM
I recently purchased the largest phone known to man (At least since Zach Morris was cool) and with the addition of a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, this has been the easiest navigating web appliance i've ever had. I haven't opened my laptop in a week. When my HDMI-out cable gets here next week to plug this into my 26" monitor, it will be an AWESOME computing platform. I can really see this mobile computing thing taking off even in the home, its seriously easy, and super lazy.

Left click to open, right click to go back, center click to go home, long center click for task manager. Even the standard multimedia controls on the keyboard work without any configuration. I'm seriously blown away. And it assumes i'm a retard on an on-screen keyboard and still capitalizes for me, autocompletes like crazy, etc. This is sweet!
 
2013-01-20 09:38:11 AM
I use a netbook at home all the time. It is small, has a real keyboard, and works great for surfing the web or checking emails.
 
Xai
2013-01-20 09:49:52 AM
Because every other OS out there lets you re-size icons... oh wait...
 
2013-01-20 09:51:27 AM

LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.


But we've been told "Metro is the new Start screen". So wouldn't that mean we are forced to use it? That or forced to learn a lot of new and weird keyboard shortcuts to avoid it? Like using the various buttons that are now hidden and you have to go hunting for them?

And what about default apps that only open in Metro? Like the default PDF viewer? Or even Solitaire? Want to pass a few minutes playing Solitaire while waiting for a streaming video to start? Tough. Solitaire is Metro only and you've opened iPlayer in desktop. Want to open a calculator on top of a PDF to add up some figures? Tough. Can't have the calculator on top of a Metro PDF.
 
2013-01-20 09:52:20 AM
I'm getting the strong sense that people who constantly rag on Windows 8 have never actually used it (apart from the 5 minutes they spent "confirming" that it sucks).
It has it's flaws, but all in all, it's quite decent.
 
2013-01-20 09:53:39 AM
One of our admins at work had Win 8 on his comp. I do t know for how long, but I walked by his desk on Friday and noticed he had put 7 back on it.

Yeah.
 
2013-01-20 09:56:23 AM

WhippingBoy: I'm getting the strong sense that people who constantly rag on Windows 8 have never actually used it (apart from the 5 minutes they spent "confirming" that it sucks).
It has it's flaws, but all in all, it's quite decent.


Maybe they really are all Apple employees who have a Mac? From a business point of view it would certainly make sense for them to pay people to slam W8 online.

At least I can't be accused of being a MS employee, since I always tell people how great Classic Shell is. I doubt MS like hearing that.
 
2013-01-20 09:56:45 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com

As usual, Star Trek showed us the future decades ago.

I predict all-in-one PCs (think extra large tablets) mounted so they can swivel to typing angle for touch apps and also remain upright like traditional monitors when gaming/video watching.
 
2013-01-20 09:57:56 AM

Flint Ironstag: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

But we've been told "Metro is the new Start screen". So wouldn't that mean we are forced to use it? That or forced to learn a lot of new and weird keyboard shortcuts to avoid it? Like using the various buttons that are now hidden and you have to go hunting for them?

And what about default apps that only open in Metro? Like the default PDF viewer? Or even Solitaire? Want to pass a few minutes playing Solitaire while waiting for a streaming video to start? Tough. Solitaire is Metro only and you've opened iPlayer in desktop. Want to open a calculator on top of a PDF to add up some figures? Tough. Can't have the calculator on top of a Metro PDF.


I use the default Metro mail, snapped to the side of my rightmost monitor. The start menu also appears on the rightmost monitor. I've never had any issues with PDFs because this isn't the stone age and my browser handles them. I can't speak to anyone's tolerance for change, I guess, but I'm not at all bothered by the tiny amount of interaction I have with it.

As far as solitaire, I guess sorry for the inconvenience? I just think it takes more for me to hate an OS than less than excellent solitaire experiences.

Just stop using the Metro stuff if you don't like it - there are a million ways to handle PDFs, for example.
 
2013-01-20 09:58:18 AM

illegal.tender: One of our admins at work had Win 8 on his comp. I do t know for how long, but I walked by his desk on Friday and noticed he had put 7 back on it.

Yeah.


How could you tell by walking past? W8 Desktop can look exactly the same as 7.
 
2013-01-20 10:02:25 AM
Sony Vaio Duo 11 convertible.
It looks like the polaroid swinger and will last as long.
 
2013-01-20 10:02:54 AM
TFA got one thing right...MS is smart for ditching the Atom. That processor pretty much single-handedly killed off netbooks. I got really tired of having this conversation:

"Can you make my netbook any faster?"

"Nope."

/but the Atom did teach you patience, and patience is a virtue.
 
2013-01-20 10:04:03 AM

Flint Ironstag: Marine1: Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.

Such as? Not snarking, curious. I love W8 but use Classic Shell to minimise using Metro as much as possible.


Well, if you program like me, you spend a lot of time switching back and forth between your IDE and looking at websites with documentation. What if that documentation were put into app form? Then you can dock it to the side and have an unobtrusive way to look at the information without losing your place in your code or breaking your train of thought switching between windows.

I'm trying to more or less accomplish this by making a guide on the C Standard Library. I need to develop a better understanding of the subject matter before releasing the app for certification, though.
 
2013-01-20 10:04:38 AM
Dude, I'm no fan of Microsoft, and especially not Windows 8, but isn't invoking the Trail of Tears kind of a sideways Godwin?
 
2013-01-20 10:04:54 AM

LasersHurt: Flint Ironstag: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

But we've been told "Metro is the new Start screen". So wouldn't that mean we are forced to use it? That or forced to learn a lot of new and weird keyboard shortcuts to avoid it? Like using the various buttons that are now hidden and you have to go hunting for them?

And what about default apps that only open in Metro? Like the default PDF viewer? Or even Solitaire? Want to pass a few minutes playing Solitaire while waiting for a streaming video to start? Tough. Solitaire is Metro only and you've opened iPlayer in desktop. Want to open a calculator on top of a PDF to add up some figures? Tough. Can't have the calculator on top of a Metro PDF.

I use the default Metro mail, snapped to the side of my rightmost monitor. The start menu also appears on the rightmost monitor. I've never had any issues with PDFs because this isn't the stone age and my browser handles them. I can't speak to anyone's tolerance for change, I guess, but I'm not at all bothered by the tiny amount of interaction I have with it.

As far as solitaire, I guess sorry for the inconvenience? I just think it takes more for me to hate an OS than less than excellent solitaire experiences.

Just stop using the Metro stuff if you don't like it - there are a million ways to handle PDFs, for example.


Who said I hate W8? I love it, but I have Classic Shell to make it easier to use. On my dual monitor setup I can't snap Metro apps to half screen, they are full screen only, on either monitor. This was the case before I installed Classic Shell so that hasn't done that.

And you said you spent 99.9% of your time in Desktop but now say you have a dual monitor setup with Metro start screen open all the time? Isn't that a bit misleading? That suggests you need to use the Metro start screen and since most people don't have twin monitors (god knows why. They're great!) they will have to go into Metro every time they need to use it.
 
2013-01-20 10:05:12 AM

oh_please: TFA got one thing right...MS is smart for ditching the Atom. That processor pretty much single-handedly killed off netbooks. I got really tired of having this conversation:

"Can you make my netbook any faster?"

"Nope."

/but the Atom did teach you patience, and patience is a virtue.


I actually think they should move away from ARM to the new generation of Atom processors. They're actually pretty good, and can even beat ARM chips in battery benchmarks.
 
2013-01-20 10:09:58 AM

Marine1: Flint Ironstag: Marine1: Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.

Such as? Not snarking, curious. I love W8 but use Classic Shell to minimise using Metro as much as possible.

Well, if you program like me, you spend a lot of time switching back and forth between your IDE and looking at websites with documentation. What if that documentation were put into app form? Then you can dock it to the side and have an unobtrusive way to look at the information without losing your place in your code or breaking your train of thought switching between windows.

I'm trying to more or less accomplish this by making a guide on the C Standard Library. I need to develop a better understanding of the subject matter before releasing the app for certification, though.


Wouldn't that be the same as having two XP/W7 windows open side by side? Or with XP/7 you could also choose to have one above the other so each would be full width.
 
2013-01-20 10:12:00 AM
Nothin' screams MODERN like a VGA port sticking out the side.
 
2013-01-20 10:12:34 AM
It's hysterical that Microsoft seriously thinks they are going to convince businesses to buy a "tablet" with a four hour battery life and no cellular connectivity.

The whole point of tablets in the enterprise was to have a thin, light device with an all day battery life which could access your network from anywhere.
 
2013-01-20 10:20:48 AM

Flint Ironstag: Marine1: Flint Ironstag: Marine1: Actually, the Metro interface has some real advantages I'm discovering as a developer. Not sure what Subby's all on about.

Such as? Not snarking, curious. I love W8 but use Classic Shell to minimise using Metro as much as possible.

Well, if you program like me, you spend a lot of time switching back and forth between your IDE and looking at websites with documentation. What if that documentation were put into app form? Then you can dock it to the side and have an unobtrusive way to look at the information without losing your place in your code or breaking your train of thought switching between windows.

I'm trying to more or less accomplish this by making a guide on the C Standard Library. I need to develop a better understanding of the subject matter before releasing the app for certification, though.

Wouldn't that be the same as having two XP/W7 windows open side by side? Or with XP/7 you could also choose to have one above the other so each would be full width.


Not exactly. This affords you more space for your IDE (it more or less gives you a 4:3 aspect ratio area to work with instead of the 16:9) because it uses less space. Instead of splitting the screen in half, you get more dedicated to what you need. The information is also more cleanly presented and you don't have to worry about how the windows on the desktop are layered on top of each other, which I find sometimes with the Aero Metro Modern Snap.
 
2013-01-20 10:24:11 AM

Flint Ironstag: And you said you spent 99.9% of your time in Desktop but now say you have a dual monitor setup with Metro start screen open all the time? Isn't that a bit misleading?


I've not explained myself correctly - the desktop is shown 99.9% of the time. You can snap an app into a narrow bar on the side, yet show the desktop - that's what I do. The free desktop space is usually a Chrome window.

The actual start menu is not displayed.
 
2013-01-20 10:38:16 AM
When Apple releases the same product, but with faux-hipster marketing, it will be seen as revolutionary.
 
2013-01-20 10:47:36 AM

LasersHurt: Flint Ironstag: And you said you spent 99.9% of your time in Desktop but now say you have a dual monitor setup with Metro start screen open all the time? Isn't that a bit misleading?

I've not explained myself correctly - the desktop is shown 99.9% of the time. You can snap an app into a narrow bar on the side, yet show the desktop - that's what I do. The free desktop space is usually a Chrome window.

The actual start menu is not displayed.


Ahh, I see. Can you have a Metro app taking up half of one of your monitors? Since I can't I assumed that when W8 runs two screens it treats it as one desktop and all Metro apps are by default running on half the screen, so making them half a monitor would be a quarter of the screen, if that makes sense. I've never managed to do that so I assume it can't.
 
2013-01-20 10:48:33 AM
So "tiles" are just big brightly colored buttons so windows users can easily click on them with their oversized fingers? What if your desktop icons exceed the space of your screen are you expected to flip past many screens just to open an App?
 
2013-01-20 10:49:43 AM

LordJiro: When Apple releases the same product, but with faux-hipster marketing, it will be seen as revolutionary.


img827.imageshack.us

/Obligatory.
 
2013-01-20 10:51:45 AM
img252.imageshack.us

/Also obligatory.
 
2013-01-20 10:52:45 AM

LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.


You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.
 
2013-01-20 10:55:49 AM

East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.


He could have installed the desktop (regular) version of Skype. It sounds like he had the Skype app installed instead.
 
2013-01-20 11:03:09 AM

Flint Ironstag: Ahh, I see. Can you have a Metro app taking up half of one of your monitors? Since I can't I assumed that when W8 runs two screens it treats it as one desktop and all Metro apps are by default running on half the screen, so making them half a monitor would be a quarter of the screen, if that makes sense. I've never managed to do that so I assume it can't.


Metro goes full-monitor on whatever monitor you've got it set on. When you snap an app, it takes about 20% - whatever else is on that monitor, be it desktop or metro, fills that space. There is no way to make it use more than 20%, which is a shame - I'd like to be able to snap several apps, in 20% increments. 40-40-20 with 3 apps, for example, would be nice.

WhippingBoy: East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.

He could have installed the desktop (regular) version of Skype. It sounds like he had the Skype app installed instead.


Correct. Metro skype is a pain in the ass. Install desktop.
 
2013-01-20 11:04:24 AM

WhippingBoy: East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.

He could have installed the desktop (regular) version of Skype. It sounds like he had the Skype app installed instead.


Sooooo...he should have removed the Skype app that came pre-installed on his new Windows 8 laptop and installed a different version of the same application?

I totally get why he hates Windows 8 now.

I didn't really want to believe it, but I now think LasersHurt really must be a paid MS shill who cries himself to sleep each night, drinking a quart of vodka to help him forget the horrible lies he is forced to tell.
 
2013-01-20 11:10:13 AM

East Avenue Arse: I didn't really want to believe it, but I now think LasersHurt really must be a paid MS shill who cries himself to sleep each night, drinking a quart of vodka to help him forget the horrible lies he is forced to tell.


Ah, we finally got there. Every thread about every technology that anyone says anything good about = accusations of being a paid shill. Took long enough.
 
2013-01-20 11:10:25 AM

LasersHurt: Flint Ironstag: Ahh, I see. Can you have a Metro app taking up half of one of your monitors? Since I can't I assumed that when W8 runs two screens it treats it as one desktop and all Metro apps are by default running on half the screen, so making them half a monitor would be a quarter of the screen, if that makes sense. I've never managed to do that so I assume it can't.

Metro goes full-monitor on whatever monitor you've got it set on. When you snap an app, it takes about 20% - whatever else is on that monitor, be it desktop or metro, fills that space. There is no way to make it use more than 20%, which is a shame - I'd like to be able to snap several apps, in 20% increments. 40-40-20 with 3 apps, for example, would be nice.

WhippingBoy: East Avenue Arse: LasersHurt: Again, you are not forced to use Metro, or trapped in it in any way. I spend 99.9% of my time on the desktop in Windows 8.

You have said that before, but it is not entirely true. I was hanging out with a friend last night and he was Skyping his gf. He had to leave the Desktop UI to go to the Metro UI to get back to the Skype program. Could he have done it another way? Maybe, but it sure looked like he was trapped into using the Metro UI.

He could have installed the desktop (regular) version of Skype. It sounds like he had the Skype app installed instead.

Correct. Metro skype is a pain in the ass. Install desktop.


"40-40-20 with 3 apps, for example, would be nice."

You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.

HOMER_THATS_SARCASM.jpg
 
2013-01-20 11:12:03 AM

East Avenue Arse: You know what would be really nice? Some kind of "window" that could be resized to whatever percent I wanted, both horizontally and vertically. Maybe one day, we will have that technology.


Desktop windows still exist, do that if you want to. Nothing stopping you. I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.
 
2013-01-20 11:15:43 AM

LasersHurt: . I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.


security guard, huh?
 
2013-01-20 11:16:24 AM

vudukungfu: LasersHurt: . I have an entire monitor devoted to assorted small windows.

security guard, huh?


Support for a software company, work from home.
 
2013-01-20 11:18:42 AM
I'm looking for Microsoft to provide some REAL innovation, like hiding the entire file name instead of just the extension.
 
2013-01-20 11:18:52 AM

LasersHurt: East Avenue Arse: I didn't really want to believe it, but I now think LasersHurt really must be a paid MS shill who cries himself to sleep each night, drinking a quart of vodka to help him forget the horrible lies he is forced to tell.

Ah, we finally got there. Every thread about every technology that anyone says anything good about = accusations of being a paid shill. Took long enough.


I have read most of the Win8 threads with interest. I develop both Android and iOS apps, been in the industry long enough to know the difference between Windows 3.1 and 3.11 (Windows for Workgroups), have a bit of experience in the tech space, if you know what I mean.

I totally don't get your adamant defense of Win8, unless it is financially motivated. You still seem confused as to why people hate it, and constantly say it is because they have only used it for 5 minutes. This despite all of the people in these threads who say why they hate it.

I have held back my judgement, as I haven't used it yet, and so, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. You seem like a smart guy. But after seeing how my friend absolutely hated having to switch between the two UIs, can you not see how Metro actually is a problem???

If you can't see that, then either you are being paid, or something else is clouding your vision... I just don't get it.
 
2013-01-20 11:25:38 AM

East Avenue Arse: I totally don't get your adamant defense of Win8, unless it is financially motivated. You still seem confused as to why people hate it, and constantly say it is because they have only used it for 5 minutes.


I do not say that. I think it's a fine OS because I use it like 15 hours a day. I know that Metro can be EASILY avoided if you dislike it, and the REST of the OS is quite fine. That's my whole argument - people are too willing to dismiss it for metro, when it's NOT hard to avoid. They ignore the rest of the OS and focus on this single point.

I'm not paid, I'm not a shill. I do have complaints (I think they failed to take advantage of snapping, as I already explained, and Microsoft bought Skype and Metro Skype blows). I just disagree with you, and in every thread in which I do that to the positive I get called a shill or fanboy (for Apple, for Microsoft, name it).
 
2013-01-20 11:26:02 AM

Anonymous Bosch: I wonder what Microsoft pays for an article like this?

Also, of course I "remember" the netbook. Out here in the real world where we're not tech reviewers who get handed new hardware like it's farking candy, I see them all the time.


This. I've bought three of the damned things in the last two years, two for my use (work, home) and one for my grandmother (along with a keyboard, and wired the display output to her TV). They are, so far as I can tell, still more popular among people that actually _use_ computers (as opposed to dicking around with them) than tablets or full-screen laptops.

Then, I also work in a lab. Ever tried to use a touch-screen with gloves on?
 
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