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(Politico)   Bill Clinton to Democrats: Don't trivialize gun culture   (politico.com) divider line 1115
    More: Advice, Bill Clinton, gun culture, Democrats, GOP House  
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16579 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jan 2013 at 5:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-20 01:20:51 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: GoldSpider: Amos Quito: If so, how do you suppose we might defend it?

Your gun club and it's collection of semi-auto rifles isn't going to be able to stop a military-backed tyrant. Sorry to burst your Paul Revere fantasy, but with the disparity between arms available to civilians and the military, it's just not happening.

But 100 million gun owners will make them think twice, wouldn't it? Do you really think the military short of committing suicide with nuclear weapons has a chance when they're outnumbered on their own territory by over 50 to 1? There's only so many attack aircraft, there's only so many tanks. The U.S. is a huge geographical area, and they need supplies. The military could not win in a battle against their own citizens. Anyone who thinks otherwise learned everything they know about war from tv.



I've really got to point this out. It's not the army. It's the various levels of law enforcement. That's who really cares about gun control. That's who would actually be deployed to deal with citizens who are not compliant enough, and that's why the War on Drugs is such a big part of the modern gun control situation.  And that's who the average American has to worry about keeping in check - not the army.
 
2013-01-20 01:22:15 PM

GoldSpider: Amos Quito: If so, how do you suppose we might defend it?

Your gun club and it's collection of semi-auto rifles isn't going to be able to stop a military-backed tyrant. Sorry to burst your Paul Revere fantasy, but with the disparity between arms available to civilians and the military, it's just not happening.



Yesterday I had dinner with a brilliant and well informed young man who recently joined the USMC, and will soon be deploying overseas.

You seem to be under the illusion that he and all of the other young men (and their sergeants, colonels, generals, etc) will mindlessly obey and enforce any order given by any assclown who happens to seize the reigns of power here in the US - including attacking and murdering US civilians wholesale.

I'm happy to say that I don't share that illusion.
 
2013-01-20 01:23:06 PM

umad: I'll bet the Libyans, Egyptians, Syrians etc would find him hilarious.


So would all the soldiers who defected to join their respective revolutions...
 
2013-01-20 01:23:06 PM

The Name: CADMonkey79: The Name: CADMonkey79: I'm sure the people who are trying to actually enact some laws that may help really love it when your kind chime in and move the other side even farther away from coming to a compromise. And for the record I am a liberal on every other issue, the bedwetters like you are what force me to the center.

So, in other words, you are a petulant little twit who puts his fragile little ego ahead of the good of society. Duly noted.

Wow somebody got a whittle angry. Look dude you are a whacko I get it. You are an extremist that is absolutely no different than the crazy teabaggers and the religious fundies. You want to force your beliefs on everyone in the same way. Just the opposite side of the same insane coin. But you are entertaining for sure, Favorited.

Lol, yeah, I'm a whacko. I want the second amendment repealed so guns can be regulated at the state, county and local level just like any other substance or object, like explosives, poisons, drugs, etc. How crazy of me to think that.


Ummm, yes you are the whacko. I'm pretty sure that is obvious even to the other gun control proponents in this thread. Fortunately there are not enough of you scared little bedwetters out there to get the 2nd repealed. Maybe if you would stop being irrational long enough some reasonable measures to curb violence could be discussed.
 
2013-01-20 01:23:31 PM
Is it possible for a 3D printer to make a 30 round clip.?
 
2013-01-20 01:24:34 PM

The Name: umad: The Name: CADMonkey79: True, but you would also have to factor in large portions of the military defecting to the insurgents side. No way you are convincing all of the US military to fight against their own people.

Lol. Do you guys have any idea how bizarre it is that these kinds of conversations even come up debates about gun control? In any other developed country you would be written off as a nut for even bringing up such apocalyptic scenarios.

I'll bet the Libyans, Egyptians, Syrians etc would find him hilarious.

Sorry, I thought this was The Greatest Country In The World(TM), not Libya, Egypt or Syria.


I've got a gun or two. My take is that I'll probably never use them for any sort of sustained defense. If I were to use them for that, it wouldn't be because the US government had crapped on the Constitution, it'd be because some dickheads had decided to become a mob and burn a lot of shiat to the ground. I'm far more worried about a repeat of the 1992 LA riots than I am about oppressive government, and even then, I'm not that worried about it.

As for Ol' Bill, I don't agree with his policy stance on a lot of things, but on stuff like this, he's the smartest guy in the room and he knows it. I respect him for that. Greatest political mind of our time.
 
2013-01-20 01:26:13 PM
Not quite sure it was the Democrats that trivialized the gun culture.
 
2013-01-20 01:27:52 PM

The Name: CADMonkey79: CADMonkey79: The Name: CADMonkey79: True, but you would also have to factor in large portions of the military defecting to the insurgents side. No way you are convincing all of the US military to fight against their own people.

Lol. Do you guys have any idea how bizarre it is that these kinds of conversations even come up debates about gun control? In any other developed country you would be written off as a nut for even bringing up such apocalyptic scenarios.


Nice cherry picking. I prefaced my part of the discussion with "I do not subscribe to the tyrant part of the argument". I seem to have become so angry I am sure it's hard to read as you tremble with fear and type though.

You....lol

You don't seem to know what "even come up" means.

/should have been an "in" between "up" and "debates"


Sure ok. Well good luck on eliminating the Constitution and everything. Have a nice day.

/can't believe I got suckered into a such a long discussion with Mr. Looney Toons.
 
2013-01-20 01:29:56 PM

CADMonkey79: Lol, yeah, I'm a whacko. I want the second amendment repealed so guns can be regulated at the state, county and local level just like any other substance or object, like explosives, poisons, drugs, etc. How crazy of me to think that.

Ummm, yes you are the whacko. I'm pretty sure that is obvious even to the other gun control proponents in this thread. Fortunately there are not enough of you scared little bedwetters out there to get the 2nd repealed. Maybe if you would stop being irrational long enough some reasonable measures to curb violence could be discussed.


Explain how my stance on the second amendment is irrational. Note first that, although I'm personally okay with gun-grabbing, I don't necessarily want that to be the law of the land. As I just stated, I just want states and local governments to have the same latitude in regulating guns as they do with any other object or substance. How is that crazy?
 
2013-01-20 01:30:51 PM

Amos Quito: You seem to be under the illusion that he and all of the other young men (and their sergeants, colonels, generals, etc) will mindlessly obey and enforce any order given by any assclown who happens to seize the reigns of power here in the US - including attacking and murdering US civilians wholesale.


Not all of them, but enough.
 
2013-01-20 01:35:03 PM

One Big Ass Mistake America: [i.imgur.com image 570x381]
What Democrats enforcing gun control laws might look like.


Awwww, the poor armed fundamentalist cult!!! When did Republicans always side with religious fundamentalists bent on destroying America's government? Is it A) since January 20, 2009 or B) since always, so long as they're the right (read: white, Christian) sort?
 
2013-01-20 01:35:18 PM

Alonjar: The Name: Alonjar: Gunshows arent even a damn thing... they are a SWAP MEET.

That's the problem, Cletus.

... so whats your proposal, smart guy? How are you going to alter the current laws to close the "loophole"? Outlaw private gun sales?

Whats your objective? Are you trying to prevent mass shootings? How would preventing the private sale of guns stop a guy who has decided to sacrifice his life in order to murder a bunch of people?


Hmmm, where are nutbags going to buy a gun, at an anonymous location with no background check or at Dick's Sporting Goods?
 
2013-01-20 01:39:40 PM

ZaldaPhlemm: Is it possible for a 3D printer to make a 30 round clip.?


I'm pretty sure that you could. I own a RepRap Prusa Mendel and I don't see why you couldn't. A magazine is basically 3 or 4 pieces and the only piece you wouldn't be able to print is the spring which you could just get somewhere else.

It would actually be a lot easier just to weld one together from sheet metal. Welders and other metal working and machining tools are a lot more common and more accessible to people than 3D printers.
 
2013-01-20 01:41:20 PM

The Name: CADMonkey79: Lol, yeah, I'm a whacko. I want the second amendment repealed so guns can be regulated at the state, county and local level just like any other substance or object, like explosives, poisons, drugs, etc. How crazy of me to think that.

Ummm, yes you are the whacko. I'm pretty sure that is obvious even to the other gun control proponents in this thread. Fortunately there are not enough of you scared little bedwetters out there to get the 2nd repealed. Maybe if you would stop being irrational long enough some reasonable measures to curb violence could be discussed.

Explain how my stance on the second amendment is irrational. Note first that, although I'm personally okay with gun-grabbing, I don't necessarily want that to be the law of the land. As I just stated, I just want states and local governments to have the same latitude in regulating guns as they do with any other object or substance. How is that crazy?


Dissolving the constitution and giving the states and local governments all of the power is a completely different discussion. It's not going to happen and is an absurd topic one way or the other. We already settled this with little thing called the Civil War. So yes crazy.
 
2013-01-20 01:41:37 PM

ZaldaPhlemm: Is it possible for a 3D printer to make a 30 round clip.?


Check this out if you want to see how someone can make an AK-47 receiver from a shovel. Link
 
2013-01-20 01:42:11 PM
Total number of homicides committed with rifles in 2011: 323  (This would include but is not limited to "Assault Rifles")

Compare to:

Handguns: 6,220
Shotguns: 356
Knives or cutting instruments: 1,694
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc): 496
Personal weapons (hands, feet, etc): 726

Now, would someone kindly explain the "logic" behind the push for banning "Assault Weapons"?

/I said the LOGIC
//Not the EMOTION
///The EMOTION I understand


THINK OF THE CHILDRENS!!!
 
2013-01-20 01:42:48 PM

ZaldaPhlemm: Is it possible for a 3D printer to make a 30 round clip.?


Yes.
 
2013-01-20 01:44:16 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: adragontattoo: Do tell me what exactly is the difference between the two?

How is THIS
[www.smith-wesson.com image 475x333]

Different from

[www.mossberg.com image 850x240]
ANSWER: The difference is how long it takes you to finish.


The same amount of time since neither is capable of firing more than one round per pull of the trigger and both only hold 10 rounds.  Assuming you mean bolt action vs. semi auto (again, 1 round per trigger pull, full auto is not civilian legal) you can add maybe 2-3 seconds total for all 10 rounds.  So again, how exactly do you differentiate the two.  An additional 2-3 seconds?

Uncle Tractor: adragontattoo: Uzi fires 9mm
SigPro/Sig 2022 fires 9mm
Appears to be an FN-FAL or similar which fires .308/7.62

What is your point?

The point is, what are the guns you wouldn't use for hunting good for?

(BTW: The last one is an ag-3. It's the weapon I used in the army. It can be used for hunting, although it's illegal to do so)

FYI, both the rifles I showed, fire the EXACT same round.  One of them is considered an "assault weapon" though because it is scary looking...

Um. OK. Not really sure what the "assault weapon" definition is supposed to be good for.


And now you see the point.

The term is scary, and that is all.

ALL fully automatic weapons made after May 1986 have been illegal for civilian ownership, weapons made AND REGISTERED PRIOR to that time are legal to own with |BATFE approval (paperwork, background checks, fingerprinting, etc) and if one comes up for sale, you are looking at mid 5 figures AT A MINIMUM just to purchase it.  The term is applied to the following (based on the previous AWB that expired)
From Wiki (sorry to use that as a source but it was easy to pull up)
    Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally).

    Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

    Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine.

Notice it is all about looks?  Grenade launchers are already covered under the National Firearms Act (same that covers Fully Automatic Weapons) (again Wiki)  Under that law,
 
2013-01-20 01:47:46 PM

numbquil: ZaldaPhlemm: Is it possible for a 3D printer to make a 30 round clip.?

Check this out if you want to see how someone can make an AK-47 receiver from a shovel. Link



Cool.

In an ideal world, we'd be beating our swords into plowshares, of course


/Call me when we get there
 
2013-01-20 01:47:47 PM

Amos Quito: Now, would someone kindly explain the "logic" behind the push for banning "Assault Weapons"?


There is none. Not a single person has presented a reasoned argument for any kind of ban on assault weapons. And I don't just mean on fark, I mean anywhere. Every single argument is founded in emotionalism.
 
2013-01-20 01:47:58 PM

Zmog: First I hear "Don't demonize guns. A gun is just a tool like any other."
Then I hear "Don't trivialize gun culture."

Why is there no circle saw culture?


Well, there's a scroll saw culture. Why not?
 
2013-01-20 01:48:15 PM

The Name: Explain how my stance on the second amendment is irrational. Note first that, although I'm personally okay with gun-grabbing, I don't necessarily want that to be the law of the land. As I just stated, I just want states and local governments to have the same latitude in regulating guns as they do with any other object or substance. How is that crazy?


I for one am glad you can argue your point of view with the intellectual honesty many gun control advocates can not. It makes for a much more rational discussion, IMHO.
 
2013-01-20 01:48:28 PM
Laughing my arse off at all you anti gun folk. My guns are not going anywhere. Suck it.
 
2013-01-20 01:48:45 PM

numbquil: Check this out if you want to see how someone can make an AK-47 receiver from a shovel. Link


The original link with hilarious commentary is a bit more fun. :)
 
2013-01-20 01:49:23 PM
I've been saying this for weeks.

The biggest winner of the Sandy Hook massacre (besides gun manufacturers who are reaping record profits as a result) are the Republicans. Obama is wasting all of the political capital and momentum he got from his landslide election victory on an unwinnable fight. Chances are that no legislation will be passed due to GOP obstructionism. And even if it is, it will be slight and lip service only.

But the costs are the loss of all of his momentum and confirming for everyone in the country (especially the gun nuts) that Obama is coming to your house to personally take all of your guns muhahahahahaha.

Obama is blowing his load on this stupid wedge issue instead of focusing that energy on the half dozen other issues that take precedence.

By the time he's done pushing this he'll practically be a lame duck with no ability to pass any other meaningful legislation.

Or maybe that's the point, and Obama really is just controlled opposition.
 
2013-01-20 01:51:09 PM

CADMonkey79: The Name: CADMonkey79: Lol, yeah, I'm a whacko. I want the second amendment repealed so guns can be regulated at the state, county and local level just like any other substance or object, like explosives, poisons, drugs, etc. How crazy of me to think that.

Ummm, yes you are the whacko. I'm pretty sure that is obvious even to the other gun control proponents in this thread. Fortunately there are not enough of you scared little bedwetters out there to get the 2nd repealed. Maybe if you would stop being irrational long enough some reasonable measures to curb violence could be discussed.

Explain how my stance on the second amendment is irrational. Note first that, although I'm personally okay with gun-grabbing, I don't necessarily want that to be the law of the land. As I just stated, I just want states and local governments to have the same latitude in regulating guns as they do with any other object or substance. How is that crazy?

Dissolving the constitution and giving the states and local governments all of the power is a completely different discussion. It's not going to happen and is an absurd topic one way or the other. We already settled this with little thing called the Civil War. So yes crazy.


Um, repealing a single amendment in accordance with the constitution is not dissolving the constitution. Sounds like you need to take fourth-grade civics over again.
 
2013-01-20 01:51:14 PM

Goodfella: I've been saying this for weeks.

The biggest winner of the Sandy Hook massacre (besides gun manufacturers who are reaping record profits as a result) are the Republicans. Obama is wasting all of the political capital and momentum he got from his landslide election victory on an unwinnable fight. Chances are that no legislation will be passed due to GOP obstructionism. And even if it is, it will be slight and lip service only.

But the costs are the loss of all of his momentum and confirming for everyone in the country (especially the gun nuts) that Obama is coming to your house to personally take all of your guns muhahahahahaha.

Obama is blowing his load on this stupid wedge issue instead of focusing that energy on the half dozen other issues that take precedence.

By the time he's done pushing this he'll practically be a lame duck with no ability to pass any other meaningful legislation.

Or maybe that's the point, and Obama really is just controlled opposition.


THIS! Reasonable people with a grasp of the realities of this issue do exist.
 
2013-01-20 01:55:38 PM

adragontattoo: Uranus Is Huge!: adragontattoo: Do tell me what exactly is the difference between the two?

How is THIS
[www.smith-wesson.com image 475x333]

Different from

[www.mossberg.com image 850x240]

ANSWER: The difference is how long it takes you to finish.

The same amount of time since neither is capable of firing more than one round per pull of the trigger and both only hold 10 rounds.  Assuming you mean bolt action vs. semi auto (again, 1 round per trigger pull, full auto is not civilian legal) you can add maybe 2-3 seconds total for all 10 rounds.  So again, how exactly do you differentiate the two.  An additional 2-3 seconds?


lol
 
2013-01-20 01:57:07 PM
"Do not patronize the passionate supporters of your opponents by looking down your nose at them," Clinton said.

If they didn't, they wouldn't be Democrats, though. C'mon, Bill, you know your party better than that.
 
2013-01-20 01:58:20 PM
Um, repealing a single amendment in accordance with the constitution is not dissolving the constitution. Sounds like you need to take fourth-grade civics over again.

CADMonkey79: The Name: CADMonkey79: Yes it was such an archaic unimportant right they decided to make it the 2nd amendment.

Yes, a bunch of slave owners predating Darwin and Freud decided to make it the second amendment. That's exactly what they did.

So lets just dissolve the entire thing. Hopefully they can put something in there about how big my soda cup can be.

Hey, whatever works, works, right? You realize that the founders included a procedure for amending the constitution for a reason, right? (Note: they also made that procedure very difficult, also for a reason.) Why is everyone so resistant even to the possibility that we can improve upon what the founders did -over two hundred years ago, at a time when we still had slavery and bloodletting? Do you guys really believe that 1789 was the apogee of our civilization?


Where could I have possibly got that idea? How about we limit the discussion to things that are actually possible from now on. Repeal of the 2nd will never happen! Or better yet how about I stop arguing with someone that is nuttier than squirrel shiat.
 
2013-01-20 01:59:13 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: lol


That's a compelling rebuttal.
 
2013-01-20 02:01:18 PM
I think the majority of Americans would be OK with banning AR-15 style rifles and 30 round clips. We all know however, that people like Fienstein (sp) aren't going to stop there don't we? She won't stop until she has every private citizen's gun.
 
2013-01-20 02:02:19 PM

doglover: I know it. I'd vote for him again in a heartbeat. He's the best president we've had since Roosevelt. (Hint: Not Franklin.) What we really need is a modern Andrew Jackson. A man who's not afraid to cane his political opponents or share giant cheeses with the masses.


I think you'd like a modern Josef Stalin better.

/killed his political opponents by the millions
//Old Hickory was a newb in comparison
 
2013-01-20 02:02:51 PM

GoldSpider: Uranus Is Huge!: lol

That's a compelling rebuttal.


Sorry. I forget that gun-nuts are almost autistic in their literal-mindedness. Hint: My Weeners contained a double entendre that, apparently, sailed right passed you.
 
2013-01-20 02:05:19 PM

Bigdogdaddy: I think the majority of Americans would be OK with banning AR-15 style rifles and 30 round clips. We all know however, that people like Fienstein (sp) aren't going to stop there don't we? She won't stop until she has every private citizen's gun.


Exactly. The VT shootings were done with a couple of handguns. Even with an AWB nothing is going to change and another mass shooting will bring out the calls for a handgun ban.
 
2013-01-20 02:06:34 PM

Bigdogdaddy: I think the majority of Americans would be OK with banning AR-15 style rifles and 30 round clips.


Perhaps, but only because they think they're banning machine guns. When people actually learn the details of what such bans would apply to and what types of guns would be banned (read: common, semi-auto rifles), support drops significantly.
 
2013-01-20 02:09:04 PM

Ow My Balls: Let's fully legalize cannabis. (a) More would-be crazies are sedentary instead of acting like Yosemite Sam while high. Reduced carnage. (b) The black market for it is curtailed. For a lot of people, weed is all they'd need, and fewer gang-banging activities would be supported with money. Reduced carnage. (c) I could go to the store on Friday and get pot instead of alcohol to unwind on the weekends. Reduced carnage.

I am convinced that the way to reduce the number of gun deaths and injuries is to reduce existing crazy people from acting crazy. Let them get high. Let me get high, too, without having to enter the criminal arena to obtain it.
/tipping point is near, Nixon-voters are dying off one by one


It's funny how he says don't trivialize gun culture when the exact same thing can be said of Democrats like Obama who trivialize the issue of marijuana legalization every time the subject comes up.

Dems often seem to think it's funny when the people speak about things we actually want.

fark them. fark both parties up their stupids asses. I'm sick and tired of their cynical patronizing and complete inability to lead on social issues.
 
2013-01-20 02:10:41 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Amos Quito: Now, would someone kindly explain the "logic" behind the push for banning "Assault Weapons"?
There is none. Not a single person has presented a reasoned argument for any kind of ban on assault weapons. And I don't just mean on fark, I mean anywhere. Every single argument is founded in emotionalism.


Explain the logic behind why anyone needs to own one. And no, "defending myself against the government" isn't a good reason, unless you live in some fantasy land.

and "because I want one" isn't good enough either. Greed isn't logical. It's an emotion.
 
2013-01-20 02:10:43 PM

CADMonkey79: Goodfella: I've been saying this for weeks.

The biggest winner of the Sandy Hook massacre (besides gun manufacturers who are reaping record profits as a result) are the Republicans. Obama is wasting all of the political capital and momentum he got from his landslide election victory on an unwinnable fight. Chances are that no legislation will be passed due to GOP obstructionism. And even if it is, it will be slight and lip service only.

But the costs are the loss of all of his momentum and confirming for everyone in the country (especially the gun nuts) that Obama is coming to your house to personally take all of your guns muhahahahahaha.

Obama is blowing his load on this stupid wedge issue instead of focusing that energy on the half dozen other issues that take precedence.

By the time he's done pushing this he'll practically be a lame duck with no ability to pass any other meaningful legislation.

Or maybe that's the point, and Obama really is just controlled opposition.


THIS! Reasonable people with a grasp of the realities of this issue do exist.


t0.gstatic.com
The Tweedles resent that implication!
 
2013-01-20 02:11:49 PM

Zeno-25: Watch you dumb farkers hand the Senate to the GOP in 2016. It's happened before and the Teabaggers have gerrymandered things to hell this time around.


How does one gerrymander a senate seat?
 
2013-01-20 02:13:43 PM

Amos Quito: coeyagi: Amos Quito: Fart_Machine: GoldSpider: Fart_Machine: Sure it does if you want to compare buses to firearms since buses don't drive themselves.

And that's a valid comparison because.... guns fire themselves? Not sure what you're getting at here...

So do you want gun owners to have license requirements and registration that bus drivers and their vehicles do?

No, I want asshat politicians to quit using false arguments and appeals to base emotion to force-feed us their underhanded agendas.

coeyagi:  Proposing alleviating crime and death = underhanded agenda


Banning Assault Weapons will alleviate "crime and death", LOL!


coeyagi:  Striving for world peace = dubious intentions, man


Banning Assault Weapons will bring world peace?


coeyagi:  //not saying that their agenda is necessarily in the ballpark of "effective', but i laugh at you for suggesting it's an underhanded agenda


Can you read the FBI report I linked to above? Do you think politicians are too stupid to read these reports? Because what they are proposing will effectively do NOTHING to address the problems that they are howling about.

73% of all gun homicides are committed with HANDGUNS, yet they are going after weapons that are responsible for less than 4% of all homicides.

Are they that STOOPID for proposing such a solution? Or are you that STOOPID  for believing them?


Wow, you can't read.

You really can't.

What is the underhanded agenda of gun control legislation? It might not be effective, but how is it an underhanded agenda?

To be honest, I couldn't tell if you are strawmanning or just illiterate, I hope your response clarifies which.
 
2013-01-20 02:14:37 PM

doglover: Babwa Wawa: doglover: Guns are made for moving a small projectile very quickly into the body of another person living being in order to incapacitate or kill them.

Does that work for you?

No.

I've never shot a living creature. They're not just for killing.

Target shooting is a thing in and of itself, and more than enough fun to justify legal firearms. Also, do you think Marine Sniper Scouts just magically train up in six weeks of basic? You want good soldiers, you kids growing up shooting. On top of that hunting is a good way to manage game levels now that apex predators are mostly dead in the wild. Self defense is an added bonus, but unless you're a cop or a gangster, the chances of it actually happening for you are nil. But the one time you need a gun, if it ever happens, you'll be glad you had it or sorry you didn't.


Okay, I'm sorry, but I have farking Asperger's Syndrome. I have  clinical obsessions with things I love; there was a point where I literally did not shut up about Star Wars or Power Rangers.

I am less obsessed with my crap than you with your guns, because I do not claim my crap is worth anyone else's life.

That's what you're gambling with. Life. You just said it's worth 'legalizing guns', which I assume means leaving our current POS system in place and not touching it, so you can  play at a farking target range. Our current system has more gun murders, far as I'm aware, than any other civilized nation on the planet. And you're okay with that because of your  hobby.

I have a farking diagnosed disorder, and I'm saner about what I do than you. Think about that.
 
2013-01-20 02:17:39 PM

cryinoutloud: Explain the logic behind why anyone needs to own one.


Need has nothing to do with it. In the US, rights default to "on".

And no, "defending myself against the government" isn't a good reason, unless you live in some fantasy land.

Agreed.

and "because I want one" isn't good enough either. Greed isn't logical. It's an emotion.

Care to explain?
 
2013-01-20 02:20:36 PM

cryinoutloud: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Amos Quito: Now, would someone kindly explain the "logic" behind the push for banning "Assault Weapons"?
There is none. Not a single person has presented a reasoned argument for any kind of ban on assault weapons. And I don't just mean on fark, I mean anywhere. Every single argument is founded in emotionalism.

Explain the logic behind why anyone needs to own one. And no, "defending myself against the government" isn't a good reason, unless you live in some fantasy land.

and "because I want one" isn't good enough either. Greed isn't logical. It's an emotion.


My argument is, why are we banning the weapon used in far fewer instances of crime than handguns? The kid at VT proved you don't need a assault rifle to commit a mass shooting. What exactly is a AWB going to do except open the door for a complete ban when that does not work (which it wont).
 
2013-01-20 02:21:56 PM

CADMonkey79: Where could I have possibly got that idea? How about we limit the discussion to things that are actually possible from now on. Repeal of the 2nd will never happen! Or better yet how about I stop arguing with someone that is nuttier than squirrel shiat.


Well, technically we could rewrite the whole constitution in accordance with the constitution, but my "whatever works" remark was more aimed at your soda comment. Besides, it was immediately followed by "You realize that the founders included a procedure for amending the constitution for a reason, right? (Note: they also made that procedure very difficult, also for a reason.)." Never once did I suggest, in context, that we should do away with the constitution altogether, and your attempts to make me out to be saying that are pathetic.
And if we want to limit the conversation only to things that are possible, how about we stop with this nonsense about a popular insurrection then, hhhmmmmm?
 
2013-01-20 02:22:54 PM

The Name: Amos Quito: ilambiquated: Amos Quito: So if "Assault WeaponsTM" are actually a minor threat to public safety, there must be some OTHER reason that the gun-grabbers want these weapons taken from the hands of the public, right?

Yeah, the NRA says video games are the problem. This means they think it's a cultural issue, all in the mind. At the same time they claim assualt weapons paraphernalia

[cdn2-b.examiner.com image 419x350]

are purely ornamental. They have no technical function, except that the somehow excite the owner...kinda like video games, that are purely abstract, just fun and games.

So according to NRA logic, banning assault weapons is like banning violent video games, and since the features in question are nonfunctional, not unconstitutional in any way. I just can't figure out why the NRA is against. Oh, because its a lobbying organization for gun manufacturers and cool looking shiat sells better.


As I pointed out previously, Assault WeaponsTM are NOT a significant threat to public safety.

But they could be seen as troublesome to would-be tyrants.

Don't you think?

To tyrants with the strength of the US military behind them?

No, not at all.


I love how one side in this debate conveniently forgets a little things like insurgencies and asymmetrical warfare, especially after all of the problems they caused us in Iraq for 10 years, and which are currently causing us problems in Afghanistan. Oh, and how's that modern military working out for the government in Syria putting down that little rebellion?
 
2013-01-20 02:25:33 PM

Mrbogey: Zeno-25: Watch you dumb farkers hand the Senate to the GOP in 2016. It's happened before and the Teabaggers have gerrymandered things to hell this time around.

How does one gerrymander a senate seat?


In the case of the Senate, it would be things like even more restrictive voting laws passed by state governments. The gerrymandering thing was really just about them expanding their majority in the House.
 
2013-01-20 02:25:50 PM

PsiChick: Our current system has more gun murders, far as I'm aware, than any other civilized nation on the planet. And you're okay with that because of your hobby.


You're assuming that legally-owned firearms are somehow responsible for (or otherwise a major contributing factor to) violent crime in the US. If so, there'd be some correlation between the number of guns legally sold/owned and violent crime, right? According to FBI crime statistics, firearm-related homicides are at their lowest point since 1964 (and have been trending downwards since the 1980s). The number of legally-owned guns in the country is at an all-time-high.

Outside of major "hotspots" of violent crime (mostly city centers, where drug trafficking and gangs are common), firearm-related homicide in the US is reasonably similar to other modern countries. These hotspots disproportionately skew national statistics.

Put another way, legal gun ownership and use is almost entirely unconnected with the criminal use of guns in the country. Someone owning a gun for a hobby, for self-protection, or for other lawful purposes does not (except in very rare circumstances) contribute to criminal violence in any meaningful way.
 
2013-01-20 02:26:17 PM

Zeno-25:
I love how one side in this debate conveniently forgets a little things like insurgencies and asymmetrical warfare, especially after all of the problems they caused us in Iraq for 10 years, and which are currently causing us problems in Afghanistan. Oh, and how's that modern military working out for the government in Syria putting down that little rebellion?


WOLVERINES!!
 
2013-01-20 02:26:26 PM

The Name: CADMonkey79: Where could I have possibly got that idea? How about we limit the discussion to things that are actually possible from now on. Repeal of the 2nd will never happen! Or better yet how about I stop arguing with someone that is nuttier than squirrel shiat.

Well, technically we could rewrite the whole constitution in accordance with the constitution, but my "whatever works" remark was more aimed at your soda comment. Besides, it was immediately followed by "You realize that the founders included a procedure for amending the constitution for a reason, right? (Note: they also made that procedure very difficult, also for a reason.)." Never once did I suggest, in context, that we should do away with the constitution altogether, and your attempts to make me out to be saying that are pathetic.
And if we want to limit the conversation only to things that are possible, how about we stop with this nonsense about a popular insurrection then, hhhmmmmm?


Ugh...really need to have that last word huh? Ok you win everything you said is completely rational and I'm sure that many of your reasonable ideas will work there way into the national discussion. Maybe when the 2nd is repealed they can name the act after you.
 
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