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(Some Guy)   First Switzerland, now Cayman Islands will disclose list of hidden corporations and hedge funds, including names of those involved. Shares of popcorn, guillotines to skyrocket   (classwarfareexists.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Cayman Islands, Switzerland, British Overseas Territories, spirit of the law, skyrocket, offshore bank  
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6048 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Jan 2013 at 6:14 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-19 04:57:32 PM  
6 votes:
I am *more* that OK with this. It's fine to be rich, if you've earned it AND are playing fair. If you're gaming the system in such a way that it negatively affects others, then you can GFY.
2013-01-19 06:24:19 PM  
5 votes:
There is an increasing perception (probably because it is true) in society that the rich play by their own rules and the rest is left to fend for themselves.

Make no mistake, I fully support and admire wealthy folks, particularly people who worked hard, developed an idea, and became rich through their effort and labor. Even people who inherit money have nothing to be ashamed of. What is infuriating, however, are all of these illegal loopholes and practices that result in unfair taxation, protection from ordinary due process, etc. We need to tackle all of these inequalities in order to save the republic.
2013-01-19 06:21:52 PM  
5 votes:
So let's use this information and not re-elect the farkers who's names appear on the list who insist we all do our part by paying more taxes.
2013-01-19 03:25:44 PM  
5 votes:
Shiat! I've got to learn to knit.

And cackle.
2013-01-19 06:45:51 PM  
4 votes:

Phinn: There are other places for financial privacy. They will get whatever money leaves the Caymans.

And Obama will try to pursue them, in his effort to make the entire world serve the aims of the USA.

But the opponents of "world government" are loony conspiracy theorists," right?


Yes. Yes they are.
2013-01-19 06:36:42 PM  
4 votes:
Mitt Romney is probably shaking in his boots right about now. A lot of people probably are. Serves them right. Their shady and insidious behavior had to be called out at some point.
2013-01-19 06:25:14 PM  
4 votes:
Anyone with a reason to hide their money overseas already got the tip off to move elsewhere. This will be pointless.
2013-01-19 07:16:38 PM  
3 votes:

Phinn: There are other places for financial privacy. They will get whatever money leaves the Caymans.


Yes, but it raises the costs of being an asshole, which is the most society can ever ask for. It's not like the world will be free of scum and villainy, but we can make it as uneconomical as possible instead of rewarding people for being unpatriotic.

Switzerland was notorious for being a first-world nation that catered to the uber-rich. The nation is stable, meaning there were very few hidden costs in hiding your money there. . . that is, until they joined the rest of society in not being an aristocratic cocksucker. The Cayman Islands were the next best thing. Well, now the rich now have to dig deeper down their list of options to maintain their tax-dodging, doucebaggery ways. The next country on the list is probably a little less friendly, a little less convenient, a little less reliable and a little more expensive in terms of bribing connections. Otherwise they would've gone there first.
2013-01-19 06:51:52 PM  
3 votes:
what I would like to see happen:

affordablehousinginstitute.org

What will happen:

static.theforeigner.no
2013-01-19 06:44:00 PM  
3 votes:
In other words, the Cayman Islands will release a list of common fortune 500 companies and/or their subsidiaries.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I doubt that's going to do much to affect the status quo.
2013-01-19 06:33:55 PM  
3 votes:
Instead of guillotines, we should use wood chippers.
2013-01-19 04:31:21 PM  
3 votes:
"In the case of Halliburton, as an example, they have an offshore subsidiary in the Cayman Islands. That subsidiary is doing business with Iran."

That's not possible, because Cheney good things rainbows.
2013-01-19 07:42:15 PM  
2 votes:

oukewldave: Anyone with a reason to hide their money overseas already got the tip off to move elsewhere. This will be pointless.


I can't think of anywhere else that can absorb a few billion in deposits and not stick out like a huge neon sign. Yes, there are plenty of third world hell holes that don't adhere to international banking treaties. But they are also third world hell holes that you stand a good chance of your deposits being "nationalized" the next time the dictator need a new air force.
2013-01-19 07:07:28 PM  
2 votes:

zelet: Anybody have a reputable link?


Saw it on CNBC this morning.

I guess the moderately rich are already shiatting their pants and converting their assets into hard currency. The global multinationals must be appealing to their governments (who are probably doubling the required bribes).

I could not care less, after learning that the average American tax cheat is likely to be a single male under age 45--in other words, the person most able to pay his goddamn income taxes. Go get his f*cking money.
2013-01-19 06:55:23 PM  
2 votes:

zelet: Anybody have a reputable link?


Following the sources backwards it winds up at the Telegraph citing a Financial Times article, which is behind a paywall.  Here's the Telegraph article, anyway:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9810 33 9/Cayman-Islands-to-name-previously-hidden-companies.html
2013-01-19 06:46:45 PM  
2 votes:

oukewldave: Anyone with a reason to hide their money overseas already got the tip off to move elsewhere.


True, but there will still be records of deposits and where the funds were transferred when the accounts were closed.

The HSBC list of American accounts were not released to the public. Hopefully they will be this time.

/subby
2013-01-19 05:33:13 PM  
2 votes:
24.media.tumblr.com

YOU'LL NEVER SEE MY 2009 TAX RETURNS, F*CKERS!
2013-01-19 04:56:50 PM  
2 votes:
[jump-you-f*ckers.jpg]
2013-01-19 04:13:17 PM  
2 votes:
Seems a bit hypocritical for the banks to divulge this information since they directly benefited from the Cayman Islands lenient tax codes and secrecy laws.  I'm betting a lot of companies of individuals would not have put their money in a Cayman Islands bank if their knew such information would be divulged.

I'm not talking about the depositors and whether what they're doing was right or wrong (as that is an entirely different issue). I'm strictly talking about the banks' actions.
2013-01-20 12:56:38 AM  
1 vote:

Kali-Yuga: oukewldave: Anyone with a reason to hide their money overseas already got the tip off to move elsewhere. This will be pointless.

Exactly, like Singapore. Swiss and Cayman accounts were played out years ago.


At some point, there's only so many states that will be doing their dirty work, and since Switzerland, Cayman Islands, etc are playing by the rules (with some financial cost), they're going to insist everyone else does too
2013-01-20 12:08:20 AM  
1 vote:

slayer199: Seems a bit hypocritical for the banks to divulge this information since they directly benefited from the Cayman Islands lenient tax codes and secrecy laws.


Maybe they see the writing on the wall. They know what is coming, and that their little corner of paradise may be no more now that we have eaten from the tree of knowledge.

Consider this: someone tells you that you are going to die tomorrow and you know there is nothing that can be done about it. They offer you a choice... take you life by your own hand and means, or they will do it for you. What will you choose... sleeping pills and a fine bottle of whiskey in a comfy chair, or being run over by an Abrams tank slowly and repeatedly until you are a sticky red goo.
They made the right choice.
2013-01-20 12:00:48 AM  
1 vote:

Arumat: Gyrfalcon: zelet: Anybody have a reputable link?

Saw it on CNBC this morning.

I guess the moderately rich are already shiatting their pants and converting their assets into hard currency. The global multinationals must be appealing to their governments (who are probably doubling the required bribes).

I could not care less, after learning that the average American tax cheat is likely to be a single male under age 45--in other words, the person most able to pay his goddamn income taxes. Go get his f*cking money.

I'm guessing that statistic wasn't weighted to the AMOUNT of taxes avoided. I don't give have a rat's ass about 1000 guys cutting $1000 off their taxes when there's still shiatbags stealing billions per year off their tax bills.

/yes, stealing
//they make use of public utilities, they're defended by the military, and they get bailed out of their farking mistakes by the fed


It's not just not paying the taxes. The single male under 45 may not be paying a minimal amount of taxes--but he's the one actually voting for politicians who are union-busting and cursing the schools and social services for "stealing taxpayer money" which he isn't paying anyway. Yeah, the corporations and big money makers are costing the government more...but these little guys are the ones making all the noise about the government "stealing our money" and not contributing any of it.
2013-01-19 11:34:15 PM  
1 vote:

Phinn: Pincy: Phinn: There are other places for financial privacy. They will get whatever money leaves the Caymans.

And Obama will try to pursue them, in his effort to make the entire world serve the aims of the USA.

But the opponents of "world government" are loony conspiracy theorists," right?

Your first sentence seemed reasonable. Your second sentence left me confused. Your third sentence is a cry for help.

Why would you be confused? It's simple. So, either you're a simpleton, or you have some kind of ideological bias that prevents you from seeing a simple reality.

Obama will direct his minions to chase the money as it leaves the Caymans and goes elsewhere. (Money is not a static thing. It's a process, a rate, a stream. Wealth needs to be created before it can be taxed, and created again before it can be taxed again. The US government could seize 100% of everything in the Caymans, and it would be spent on stuff, and then run out. Meanwhile, the people who know how to create wealth will have created new wealth, and stashed it somewhere else. Taxation is only really meaningful when it can capture wealth again and again, periodically.)

But that chase will soon become tiresome, and either he (or his ideological successor) will abandon the anti-haven agenda as futile, or he will realize that the only way to stamp out all illicit money transfers is to control all of the banks, everywhere, all over the earth.

He will either need to be satisfied chasing money as it jumps from haven to haven, indefinitely, or he will have to eliminate all havens. As long as a few remain, capital will find it.

So, what's the only way to ensure that all banks all over the world cooperate with the taxation appetite of the IRS and the US Treasury?

A system of government that reaches everywhere, that allows for no corner of the earth to have any banking independence at all, and so there is nowhere that isn't ultimately made to serve US monetary interests.


You should seriously consider writing futuristic international spy-ring thrillers because you appear to have a spectacular imagination when it comes to this stuff.
2013-01-19 10:26:21 PM  
1 vote:
Like Switzerland it will be a cosmetic change that really changes nothing. Plus there are plenty of offshore alternatives.

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=in_the_back&is s ue=1330
2013-01-19 10:16:47 PM  
1 vote:

dragonchild: Phinn: There are other places for financial privacy. They will get whatever money leaves the Caymans.

Yes, but it raises the costs of being an asshole, which is the most society can ever ask for. It's not like the world will be free of scum and villainy, but we can make it as uneconomical as possible instead of rewarding people for being unpatriotic.

Switzerland was notorious for being a first-world nation that catered to the uber-rich. The nation is stable, meaning there were very few hidden costs in hiding your money there. . . that is, until they joined the rest of society in not being an aristocratic cocksucker. The Cayman Islands were the next best thing. Well, now the rich now have to dig deeper down their list of options to maintain their tax-dodging, doucebaggery ways. The next country on the list is probably a little less friendly, a little less convenient, a little less reliable and a little more expensive in terms of bribing connections. Otherwise they would've gone there first.


It's gonna be kind of hard to to business as the vise tightens.
2013-01-19 09:26:59 PM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: zelet: Anybody have a reputable link?

Saw it on CNBC this morning.

I guess the moderately rich are already shiatting their pants and converting their assets into hard currency. The global multinationals must be appealing to their governments (who are probably doubling the required bribes).

I could not care less, after learning that the average American tax cheat is likely to be a single male under age 45--in other words, the person most able to pay his goddamn income taxes. Go get his f*cking money.


I'm guessing that statistic wasn't weighted to the AMOUNT of taxes avoided. I don't give have a rat's ass about 1000 guys cutting $1000 off their taxes when there's still shiatbags stealing billions per year off their tax bills.

/yes, stealing
//they make use of public utilities, they're defended by the military, and they get bailed out of their farking mistakes by the fed
2013-01-19 08:25:12 PM  
1 vote:
I am certain that any lawbreakers will be prosecuted as vigorously as the HSBC execs who oversaw money laundering for drug cartels and terrorists. And the Wall St. scamsters.
2013-01-19 08:16:37 PM  
1 vote:

Spirit Hammer: I don't know why we don't just figure out who all these rich people are, and tax them at 100%
We'd never have to work again!


If we could tax them at 38% (The same as we mere mortals on the upper end of the scale pay) we'd never be quibbling about the budget again.
2013-01-19 08:03:11 PM  
1 vote:
I don't know why we don't just figure out who all these rich people are, and tax them at 100%
We'd never have to work again!
2013-01-19 07:51:34 PM  
1 vote:
i.imgur.com
2013-01-19 07:42:45 PM  
1 vote:

BolloxReader: Meh, I'll be offshoring to the Caymans or somewhere similar just because they let you incorporate with only one person. The tax stuff I don't care about, it's shielding my business assets (currently in a single household partnership) while I go to-to-to with Sallie Mae. The farkers farked me, paying 3x my minimum payment every month and they reported me in default to the government. Gotta get my income stuff protected before they decide to go after assets or something as things work through and I don't have time to get someone else to sign the paperwork while I'm driving over the road.

/thanks Sallie Mae for driving another business offshore!
//actually three total, will be incorporating them all as one entity though
///do offshored slashies come in threes?
////no, you get four because they are cheap (and one will break)


Sounds like you just aren't a very good businessman to me.
2013-01-19 07:41:00 PM  
1 vote:
Meh, I'll be offshoring to the Caymans or somewhere similar just because they let you incorporate with only one person. The tax stuff I don't care about, it's shielding my business assets (currently in a single household partnership) while I go to-to-to with Sallie Mae. The farkers farked me, paying 3x my minimum payment every month and they reported me in default to the government. Gotta get my income stuff protected before they decide to go after assets or something as things work through and I don't have time to get someone else to sign the paperwork while I'm driving over the road.

/thanks Sallie Mae for driving another business offshore!
//actually three total, will be incorporating them all as one entity though
///do offshored slashies come in threes?
////no, you get four because they are cheap (and one will break)
2013-01-19 07:38:47 PM  
1 vote:
While Farkers question the veracity of the story due to it coming from classwarfareexists.com there are many supporting links to well-known sources cited throughout the piece.
2013-01-19 07:33:10 PM  
1 vote:

ClavellBCMI: Panama? The Ivory Coast? Madagascar? Malaysia? Singapore?


You know, to be perfectly honest I have neither the fortune to make tax-dodging worthwhile nor the sociopathic douchebaggery dipshiat attitude to consider the option in the first place, so your guess is as good as mine.

I can think of a few countries that cater to their rich and well-connected like nobody's business, like China and Mexico. But they cater to their own rich and well-connected. I suppose it's possible to buy your way into their clubs, and they have all that built-up infrastructure that exists for the sole purpose of catering to their plutocrats. But they'll probably charge a premium because you're not from the country, and that's a cost that the financial advisers are going to have to weigh among the various candidates. Eventually they'll all settle on a country because ruthless calculation always leads to the "best" option, and we go after that one next.

Actually, I hope it's some backwater country, as it'd be easier to strong-arm them into coughing up the names again. It might be really expensive for a foreigner to buy political favors from, say, China, but once they're in, I figure the odds of getting them to hand over their clients is rather slim.
2013-01-19 07:31:13 PM  
1 vote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisdictional_arbitrage 

A brief how-to for Free Riding douchebags.
2013-01-19 07:29:42 PM  
1 vote:
I'm a Caymanian/American. I've worked for several of these firms. I was in the offices next store to Goldman Sachs and Arthur Anderson. ONe of the firms I've worked for had a ton of Halliburton and KRB accounts.

Alot of that money is still there, sure they moved some of it to the Windwards and to Mann and a number of other offshores that have stayed in the shadows. The expression is the that sands are black in the South east Caribbean.

During the 2012 election most of these offshore areas were very pro Romney. They really didn't want FACTA to be inforced or for disclosure to ever happen. I don't know how viable their economies are now that this is all coming to pass. I love and regret this but it is as it must be.
2013-01-19 07:26:38 PM  
1 vote:

Fark Rye For Many Whores: "In the case of Halliburton, as an example, they have an offshore subsidiary in the Cayman Islands. That subsidiary is doing business with Iran."

That's not possible, because Cheney good things rainbows.


Considering his "I did the right thing" dreck of this week, I think there must be a more evil, uber-CHeney. No one could do all this money-laundering, torture, destruction of the Constitution and still think he was doind the right thing. Oh wait, he said he would defer to his church instead of the US in times of crisis...well, there ya go! If your church is a bank and you worship a wallet, it makes perfect sense. Yuck.
2013-01-19 07:26:18 PM  
1 vote:
Remember you hard-working, American Patriots, it's the blacks and Mexicans destroying this country. Please please please remember that as you read I've been evading taxes for the past 20 years. Thanks.

-Rich People-
2013-01-19 06:48:24 PM  
1 vote:

Phinn: There are other places for financial privacy. They will get whatever money leaves the Caymans.

And Obama will try to pursue them, in his effort to make the entire world serve the aims of the USA.

But the opponents of "world government" are loony conspiracy theorists," right?


Your first sentence seemed reasonable. Your second sentence left me confused. Your third sentence is a cry for help.
2013-01-19 06:47:56 PM  
1 vote:
BFD. It means nothing now that we know that there are no consequences for any person/bank/corporation/entity that is "too big to fail".
2013-01-19 06:39:58 PM  
1 vote:
So, in a nutshell, they are gaming the system to hoard tax free money, all the while reducing pay and benefits to the American worker. Because...according to them "We can't afford to pay you a good wage or medical" they are sooooo broke. Um..ya. Way to fark the worker while lining your own pocket.
2013-01-19 06:38:27 PM  
1 vote:

zelet: Anybody have a reputable link?


What, classwarfareexists.com doesn't seem legit and objective to you? WAKE UP, SHEEPLE.
2013-01-19 06:32:07 PM  
1 vote:
Anybody have a reputable link?
2013-01-19 04:59:38 PM  
1 vote:
FTFA: Google has used the Cayman Islands and other offshore tax havens to manipulate the tax code. In 2010 - they paid 2.4% on $60 billion in revenues. Bloomberg wrote a must read HERE.

Just wondering out loud here...but I wonder if R'money's tax plan on closing loopholes to generate revenue *instead* of raising the tax rate had anything to do with this.

I seriously doubt it, though.
 
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