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(Forbes)   Not News: US auto maker Tesla Motors makes amazing electric cars. News:Tesla Motors is the second oldest publicly traded US auto maker. HOLY FARK: The NHTSA's roof crush test actually broke when it tried to crush the Model S   (forbes.com) divider line 72
    More: Cool, Model S, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, automakers, Ford GT, Elon Musk, unanimous decision  
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5751 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Jan 2013 at 6:58 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-19 04:05:24 PM  

Sorry, I can't hear the name Tesla without my mind going straight to this


Drunk History
 
2013-01-19 04:24:23 PM  
This ad for Tesla Motors brought to us by Fark.com.  Or we're just reposting an ad from Forbes for Tesla willingly, which is even dumber since I assume that Drew isn't getting paid in that case.
 
2013-01-19 04:44:26 PM  
Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.
 
2013-01-19 05:05:26 PM  
Saw the Roadster today, not bad for a car that used to be a Elise.

But the Model S as fast and advanced as it is costs more than a Lexus? NO.
 
2013-01-19 05:07:03 PM  

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


Gas -guzzling beasts were not affordable to the vast majority of Americans for the first several decades also. It's gotta start somewhere.
 
2013-01-19 05:30:15 PM  
Yeah, but Al Gore is fat.

So there.
 
2013-01-19 05:39:15 PM  
I couldn't hear how awesome the car was because the author has a big fat giant Tesla in his mouth.  And he's gobbling it like candy.
 
2013-01-19 05:39:31 PM  

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.
 
2013-01-19 05:45:04 PM  

Cuchulane: Sorry, I can't hear the name Tesla without my mind going straight to this
Drunk History


Sorry I can't hear the name Tesla without my mind going straight to this:

No no no
Tesla girls Tesla girls
Testing out theories
Electric chairs and dynamos
Dressed to kill they're killing me
But heaven knows their recipe
No no no
 
2013-01-19 05:57:35 PM  
There's a Tesla dealership inside one of my local shopping malls. Kinda jarring after all the clothing, jewelry, makeup and bath shops.

That's all I got.
 
2013-01-19 05:59:07 PM  
"The front trunk (often referred to as the "frunk") can fit a whole person. "

That's what I'm talking about. Maybe I said too much.
 
2013-01-19 06:22:47 PM  

GAT_00: That makes a Tesla quite affordable.


Only if you're paying me to read your numbers.

$50K is $50K. Maybe in 1901 $50K went further. Cleopatra married her brother, too. That doesn't mean you can marry yours today.

In the us, the median personal income is below $50K a year. Tesla cars are cool, but they cost most people a year of salary. Until that price comes down, they're a luxury item.
 
2013-01-19 06:56:03 PM  

GAT_00: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.


There's also the matter of not having to buy gasoline.  That stuff is pricey!

Am seriously considering one of these.  I like the company very much and, being in Arizona, tossing up some solar panels to charge the car is highly appealing.  Paying a premium would be worth it just to give the finger to every gas station I pass.

My concerns are more about service, repair and reliability.  If that 17" panel craps itself, would you be able to get home or have to call the tow truck?  If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?  And can I wrench on it myself?

If it does well in the real world, I'll buy one.
 
2013-01-19 06:59:42 PM  

L.D. Ablo: There's also the matter of not having to buy gasoline. That stuff is pricey!


we also pay between $4-$14 a gallon of gas if you include government subsidies and tax breaks to the oil industry. It's not a fair playing field, we need to invest a lot more in energy storage cause our current systems (air, train cars, batteries, capacitors, flywheels, etc...) are not up to task and it's holding us back from making major breakthroughs.
 
2013-01-19 07:07:41 PM  

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


As I recall, the business plan ran somewhere along the lines of:

1st, high end sports car for the rich.
Use that money to make the highish-end luxury sedan.
Use that money to make cheaper family car, etc.
 
2013-01-19 07:15:49 PM  

L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?


They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.
 
2013-01-19 07:16:44 PM  

GAT_00: L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?

They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.


Ignore the 3 weeks.  That should be months.
 
2013-01-19 07:35:28 PM  

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


Pointless comment is pointless.

The Cadillac Escalade's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.
 
2013-01-19 07:36:43 PM  
The Supercharger network they announced (9.24.2012) is one of the fastest in the network and directly addressed (and essentially demolishes) some of the major doubts about EV's.
Those doubts would be:
- range anxiety (addressed because each supercharger station increases the distance people are able to travel significantly)
- EV's are just pushing emissions to the power plant (addressed b/c many of the stations are to have solar panels on top and be free from the grid)
- costs of EV's (addressed b/c charging is free for Model S owners, driving the cost of driving the same distance in an EV vs an ICEV even lower)


Did I miss the part where they have fixed the biggest problem with electric vehicles - the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets? I'd happily ride a Brammo Empulse if I had any way to plug it in.
 
2013-01-19 07:43:16 PM  
I just saw where Boeing's putting a ton of batteries on the market, win win!
 
2013-01-19 07:43:55 PM  

jaytkay: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

Pointless comment is pointless.

The Cadillac Escalade's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.


And I would point out that the Tesla's price has already come down significantly.  A couple of years ago, there was no model that was less than $100K.

And as electric cars catch on, the price will continue to drop, and the infrastructure to support them will be there.
 
2013-01-19 07:46:11 PM  

HotWingAgenda: the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets?


Then why do you need a car? Move into the city and use buses and trains or move into the country and get yourself a house.
 
2013-01-19 07:49:37 PM  

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


One of the reasons is to stifle demand, I think. You can't buy one, you have to reserve it.
 
2013-01-19 07:53:11 PM  

revrendjim: "The front trunk (often referred to as the "frunk") can fit a whole person. "

That's what I'm talking about. Maybe I said too much.


Sweet! My days of sawing off limbs to make them fit is over!
 
2013-01-19 07:55:35 PM  

doglover: Tesla cars are cool, but they cost most people a year of salary. Until that price comes down, they're a luxury item.


I bet you were saying this in 1970 about personal computers.
 
2013-01-19 07:59:13 PM  
Also broke the roof crush machine:

cars-database.com
 
2013-01-19 08:02:17 PM  

jake_lex: And I would point out that the Tesla's price has already come down significantly.


Not correct:

Increasing prices on an annual basis is standard practice in the automobile industry and almost every industry for that matter. The price increase we are announcing today . . . They just raised prices because they know they can get away with it, and for no other reason

doglover: HotWingAgenda: the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets?

Then why do you need a car? Move into the city and use buses and trains or move into the country and get yourself a house.


I actually started in the city, commuting entirely by foot or public transport, and moved outside of it fairly recently. I couldn't afford it; in the US, at least in my area, it's cheaper to rent an apartment in a suburb and drive a car than to live in a city without one. And I would have to make more than triple my wages to be able to even rent a freestanding house, much less own.
 
2013-01-19 08:03:37 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: doglover: Tesla cars are cool, but they cost most people a year of salary. Until that price comes down, they're a luxury item.

I bet you were saying this in 1970 about personal computers.


It was true then, too. Now I can pick up a computer that works for free on Craigslist, or a decent computer for pocket change anywhere.

$50K is a lot for a car for most people, even if it is electric and and made by Elrond Musk.
 
2013-01-19 08:11:45 PM  

GAT_00: L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?

They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.


Currently, the "Sleep Mode" causes the 12V battery to die, which then makes the whole car undrivable.

Not to mention the reviewer who was held hostage by his when it wouldn't let go of the charging plug. The had to fly in a repairman to fix it. Considering Tesla has no plans to open up local dealerships, and that they want require owners to pay $600 a year for service (in order not to void the warranty) - having to wait a few days to get a minor issue like not being able to move the car out of your driveway might be a concern.


www.autoweek.com

/not a Tesla hater, just not a fan of their business plan regarding dealers and service
//all cars have problems, brand new ones using brand new tech even more so
 
2013-01-19 08:16:15 PM  

doglover: HotWingAgenda: the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets?

Then why do you need a car? Move into the city and use buses and trains or move into the country and get yourself a house.


because public transit in places that aren't NYC generally sucks.

and because some of us live in places where scumbag suburbs use property tax credits to attract businesses to them, so we end up working in the burbs and living downtown. it's like a farking bizzaro world. I'm working on rectifying this particular issue.

also, these cars are great and all, but doesn't it take more energy and greenhouse gas generation to mine the lithium, make batteries etc, than will be saved in gas costs?

what about those of us who live in old ass cities, we don't have off street parking generally, and our curbs don't have plug ins.
 
2013-01-19 08:21:00 PM  
Did they ever fix that thing where the transmissions stopped working after 5000 miles? Or is there some other reason why no one is buying them?
 
2013-01-19 08:21:34 PM  

GAT_00: L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?

They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.


I remember hearing that kind of thing about the P1, which I owned for 10 years. OMFGBBQ your battery will die and it will cost you Ten Thousand Dollars... next week! any minute!

By the time the car went of to the Great Junkyard in the ... um... next town over, battery prices had dropped to 2-3K and my car never needed a new one.
 
2013-01-19 08:25:07 PM  
As soon as they setup their quick charge network in my area of Canada I'm buying one.
 
2013-01-19 08:29:46 PM  

Tourney3p0: Did they ever fix that thing where the transmissions stopped working after 5000 miles? Or is there some other reason why no one is buying them?


Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?
 
2013-01-19 08:33:44 PM  

loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?


I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.
 
2013-01-19 08:37:25 PM  

Tourney3p0: when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate.


And wikipedia has no entry on this why?
 
2013-01-19 08:38:25 PM  

doglover:

And wikipedia has no entry on this why?


I don't know. Maybe you should wikipedia that.
 
2013-01-19 08:41:56 PM  

doglover: Tourney3p0: when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate.

And wikipedia has no entry on this why?


Never mind. Checked it myself.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

Subsequent to completion of production car number one at Hethel, the company announced problems with transmission reliability. The development transmission, with first gear enabled to accelerate 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) in 4 seconds, was reported to have a life expectancy of as low as only a few thousand miles. Tesla Motors' first two transmission suppliers were unable to produce transmissions, in quantity, that could withstand the gear-shift requirements of the high torque, high rpm electric motor. In December 2007, Tesla Motors announced plans to ship the initial Roadsters with the transmissions locked into second gear to provide 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) acceleration in 5.7 seconds. The first production car was not delivered with this interim solution; P1 has both transmission gears enabled. According to the plan, the initial transmissions were to be swapped out under warranty when the finalized transmission, power electronics module (PEM), and cooling system became available. The EPA range of the car was also restated downward from 245 to 221 miles (394 to 356 km). The downward revision was attributed to an error in equipment calibration at the laboratory that conducted the original test.[53][54][55]
 
2013-01-19 08:42:51 PM  

Tourney3p0: doglover: Tourney3p0: when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate.

And wikipedia has no entry on this why?

Never mind. Checked it myself.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

Subsequent to completion of production car number one at Hethel, the company announced problems with transmission reliability. The development transmission, with first gear enabled to accelerate 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) in 4 seconds, was reported to have a life expectancy of as low as only a few thousand miles. Tesla Motors' first two transmission suppliers were unable to produce transmissions, in quantity, that could withstand the gear-shift requirements of the high torque, high rpm electric motor. In December 2007, Tesla Motors announced plans to ship the initial Roadsters with the transmissions locked into second gear to provide 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) acceleration in 5.7 seconds. The first production car was not delivered with this interim solution; P1 has both transmission gears enabled. According to the plan, the initial transmissions were to be swapped out under warranty when the finalized transmission, power electronics module (PEM), and cooling system became available. The EPA range of the car was also restated downward from 245 to 221 miles (394 to 356 km). The downward revision was attributed to an error in equipment calibration at the laboratory that conducted the original test.[53][54][55]


Oops.
 
2013-01-19 08:43:09 PM  

Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.


e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."
 
2013-01-19 08:43:16 PM  

eddievercetti: But the Model S as fast and advanced as it is costs more than a Lexus? NO.


*checks Lexus website* I highly suspect that they are competing with the $47k Lexus GS, not the rebadged Corolla.

The Tesla S is a very large, very fast, very fancy, rear-wheel-drive luxury sedan. It is priced in the same range as a BMW 5 series, a Mercedes E class, Audi S5, or (I see now) a Lexus GS.

Much as I'd like to be, I'm not in their target market.

/brother-in-law works there.
//no, he can't get me a discount
 
2013-01-19 08:43:23 PM  
Anyone curious as to how actual Tesla customers feel about their cars, 10 minutes at www.teslamotors.com/forums will give you a good indication. Any owner who drives their cars is well aware of what Tesla is doing as a company. There have been some growing pains at Tesla (delivery issues, early cash-flow problems), but what are the yardsticks of a successful company? 1) Are they meeting their production/sales goals? Yes. 2) Are their customers happy? Hell yes.

Back under your bridges, trolls. You too, Edison. Tesla wins.
 
2013-01-19 08:44:29 PM  

Tourney3p0: I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate


The S has no transmission. I didn't know the Roadster had one -- learn something new every day.
 
2013-01-19 08:51:12 PM  

washburn777: Anyone curious as to how actual Tesla customers feel about their cars, 10 minutes at www.teslamotors.com/forums will give you a good indication. Any owner who drives their cars is well aware of what Tesla is doing as a company. There have been some growing pains at Tesla (delivery issues, early cash-flow problems), but what are the yardsticks of a successful company? 1) Are they meeting their production/sales goals? Yes. 2) Are their customers happy? Hell yes.

Back under your bridges, trolls. You too, Edison. Tesla wins.


I want them to succeed. The Roadster and Model S look great and hearing great things about them. Their new SUV is eh but I get they had to make it. Fisker on the other hand, they 65% from being farked for good.
 
2013-01-19 08:53:00 PM  
If by 'transmission' you mean one speed gearbox, then I guess a person could argue the Model S has a transmission. But I'm guessing the safer bet is you have no idea how an electric car works.
 
2013-01-19 08:58:34 PM  

crotchgrabber: Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.

e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."


If you want one a bunch of Tesla showrooms have Certified Pre-Owned Roadsters in stock for sale. The one in Portland has 9 of them. Average resale price is upwards of 90k. I also WANT.
 
2013-01-19 09:13:09 PM  

crotchgrabber: Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.

e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."


Well, they do. They just typically only have one gear at the moment, because, well, Tesla couldn't figure out how to make two work.
 
2013-01-19 09:19:27 PM  
That is a good-looking car.

images.thecarconnection.com

/ Not a car guy, but c'mon, that is a looker
 
2013-01-19 09:25:44 PM  

L.D. Ablo: GAT_00: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.

There's also the matter of not having to buy gasoline.  That stuff is pricey!

Am seriously considering one of these.  I like the company very much and, being in Arizona, tossing up some solar panels to charge the car is highly appealing.  Paying a premium would be worth it just to give the finger to every gas station I pass.

My concerns are more about service, repair and reliability.  If that 17" panel craps itself, would you be able to get home or have to call the tow truck?  If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?  And can I wrench on it myself?

If it does well in the real world, I'll buy one.


You must be a magic mechanic/owner that gladly voids factory warrantees. Many new vehicles come with roadside assistance. Intelligent people without r/a pay the few measly bucks for AAA. While you may be special, most people do not assault their new motor vehicles with tools, and they haven't for a very long time. it's that 'I don't have a $400K diagnostic computer and factory certification training' that tends to keep wily hands off cars that will be repaired for free by the dealer.

You're not about to buy one, now or in the future. it takes money to take that vehicle home.
 
2013-01-19 10:50:24 PM  

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


Aren't most gas guzzling beasts like the Ford Expedition somewhere around $40k+? Add in incentives and fuel savings, and it probably isn't much different in TCO.
 
2013-01-19 10:52:24 PM  

GAT_00: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.


Um, the Model T was reduced in price that much because Henry Ford basically invented the assembly line process and revolutionized manufacturing (and changed the world by doing so). I don't think Tesla is going to do anything quite like that.

Anyway, the battery technology is a dead end, barring some massive technological advance. Fuel cells are where its at assumming someone solves the problem of storing hydrogen fuel, which is the current difficulty if I understand aright.
 
2013-01-19 11:43:40 PM  
I own the car. It's flat out fantastic. I've had no issues since taking delivery. Feels like you're driving a car from 2023. There is no doubt in my mind that every car will ultimately function like this one.

All that said, this is definitely early adopter territory. Not for everyone. And yes, it's very expensive to purchase. If Tesla can survive as a company, it's my hope that they manufacture a 40K-ish model for everyone.

In terms of charging, definitely tough if you're in a shared garage, e.g. an apartment building. If you're in a home, it's pretty easy. You install a 240/50 outlet in your garage, and you're good to go.
 
2013-01-19 11:49:09 PM  
I love the Model X. I'd love to get one, but it's out of my price range.

It's not about the environment or anything like that. The idea of charging your car while you sleep is so damn appealing to me. I love the idea of waking up every morning to a full tank. I also hate going to gas stations.
 
2013-01-19 11:57:28 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: crotchgrabber: Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.

e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."

Well, they do. They just typically only have one gear at the moment, because, well, Tesla couldn't figure out how to make two work.


Actually they only have one gear because that gear maxes out at over 15000 RPM, which is well above the top speed of 130mph. For those in the cheap seats, that means no energy loss shifting gears. Also, no waiting for the engine to suck in and compress air, no waiting for fuel to get injected. Instead of hitting the pedal and waiting 3 seconds to experience the sensation of speed you get 440lbs of thrust delivered immediately at 0 RPM.

You dinosaurs need to die off already. When a combustion engine sleeps it dreams of being electric.
 
2013-01-20 12:00:20 AM  

clmazin: I own the car. It's flat out fantastic. I've had no issues since taking delivery. Feels like you're driving a car from 2023. There is no doubt in my mind that every car will ultimately function like this one.

All that said, this is definitely early adopter territory. Not for everyone. And yes, it's very expensive to purchase. If Tesla can survive as a company, it's my hope that they manufacture a 40K-ish model for everyone.

In terms of charging, definitely tough if you're in a shared garage, e.g. an apartment building. If you're in a home, it's pretty easy. You install a 240/50 outlet in your garage, and you're good to go.


Did yours come with the correct wheels and trim? I've heard than many owners are getting a car that wasn't what they ordered (mismatched carbon fiber and piano black trim being common), and are being told that eventually Tesla will send the correct wheels, seats, etc. when they come in.
 
2013-01-20 12:04:14 AM  

Kraftwerk Orange: GAT_00: L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?

They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.

Currently, the "Sleep Mode" causes the 12V battery to die, which then makes the whole car undrivable.

Not to mention the reviewer who was held hostage by his when it wouldn't let go of the charging plug. The had to fly in a repairman to fix it. Considering Tesla has no plans to open up local dealerships, and that they want require owners to pay $600 a year for service (in order not to void the warranty) - having to wait a few days to get a minor issue like not being able to move the car out of your driveway might be a concern.

/not a Tesla hater, just not a fan of their business plan regarding dealers and service
//all cars have problems, brand new ones using brand new tech even more so


this.
 
2013-01-20 12:16:39 AM  

GAT_00: xanadian: Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.


In 1925, the base Model T cost $290. Adjusted for inflation, that would be about $3700. I don't think Tesla, or even Tata is going to have anything in the price range in the U.S.
 
2013-01-20 12:25:01 AM  

Darth Otter: GAT_00: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.

Um, the Model T was reduced in price that much because Henry Ford basically invented the assembly line process and revolutionized manufacturing (and changed the world by doing so). I don't think Tesla is going to do anything quite like that.

Anyway, the battery technology is a dead end, barring some massive technological advance. Fuel cells are where its at assumming someone solves the problem of storing hydrogen fuel, which is the current difficulty if I understand aright.


Tesla uses laptop batteries at the present, and don't appear to be too concerned about developing a battery manufacturing division themselves, so they'll always be at the mercy of what's on the market.

OTOH, they are linked up with Toyota and Mercedes, who have two of the better FCV programs going on. The irony, if Tesla were to integrate a fuel cell into a future vehicle, would be astounding.
 
2013-01-20 12:33:38 AM  
When the SL-C's monocock chasis was strength-tested by the Australian government, they ripped the anchor bolts out of the floor.

www.diariomotor.com

Also an American car (It'll run you about $44,000 + the drivetrain of your choice)
 
2013-01-20 01:12:45 AM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Did yours come with the correct wheels and trim? I've heard than many owners are getting a car that wasn't what they ordered (mismatched carbon fiber and piano black trim being common), and are being told that eventually Tesla will send the correct wheels, seats, etc. when they come in.


Yup. Everything was spot on. Paint, wheels, interior, options. The only hiccup I experienced was that the charging cable shipped with the car was faulty. I picked up a new one at the local service center (I'm in LA), and I was good to go. Barring that option, they were willing to overnight FedEx me one.

I'm a completely satisfied customer so far. If I experience any drastic setbacks, that would obviously change, but for now... I think the Tesla is head and shoulders above any other car I've ever owned.
 
2013-01-20 03:08:07 AM  
With everyone running them down on fark and the plant really starting to boom (Lots of traffic in their parking lot) it could be time to buy, Mortimer. Buy!
 
2013-01-20 03:18:02 AM  

washburn777: If you want one a bunch of Tesla showrooms have Certified Pre-Owned Roadsters in stock for sale. The one in Portland has 9 of them. Average resale price is upwards of 90k. I also WANT.


It would be nice to just rent one.
 
2013-01-20 03:32:34 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Did I miss the part where they have fixed the biggest problem with electric vehicles - the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets? I'd happily ride a Brammo Empulse if I had any way to plug it in.


It isn't really a problem that needs to be solved until we have an electric car. It wouldn't take to much to set up some charging bays in an apartment complex or job sites. I'll bet that little wheel in the meters gets moving.
 
2013-01-20 07:12:10 AM  

crotchgrabber: Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.

e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."


Apparently, the Tesla Roadster had a two speed trans, for high and low acceleration rates, and the high accel rate gear was simply disabled out of the factory on the initial run, until they could get hardware that could take the stress.  Also,  http://www.plugincars.com/efficiency-multi-speed-transmissions-electr i c-cars-107656.html
 
2013-01-20 07:50:39 AM  
Meh, I'd rather get a volt. Go on a long road trip, fill up the gas tank and you don't have to strategize finding a place to plug in.
 
2013-01-20 09:18:52 AM  
The model S was is a hoot to drive.   I got a call from a friend who wanted to know if I wanted to go test drive one and be interviewed as to my opinions on it.   When I got there they fitted me with a wireless mike, stuck two gopros at various places and put a camera man in the right seat.   The producer in the back seat asked me questions while I drove.   To make it so I didn't have to think too hard, they put an Audi A7 car ahead of me as a pace car.

I got out on the highway and put my foot down.   The thing just zipped up to 70+ completely smoothly and quickly.   No automatic (or manual) shifting points, just pure acceleration.    Near the end of the drive, I switched into the A7 (not a bad car in it's own right) but you felt the thing shifting.

For a "larger" sports car, the S still can be thrown around the curves and it tracks nicely (it handles better than the A7 in my opinion and as well as my A4).

The thing is geeked out.   The center display has a nav system based on google maps (it does have a 3G alas no LTE) link for internet and uploading traffic.   You can adjust the various suspension and other performance features (I immediately turned on creep mode).    One amusing feature is that you can have it raise one wheel using the suspension enough to be able to change the low profile tire.

The model I drove had something like a 350 mile range.    That's pretty cool for almost all my driving.
 
2013-01-20 09:55:33 AM  

Mad_Radhu: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

Aren't most gas guzzling beasts like the Ford Expedition somewhere around $40k+? Add in incentives and fuel savings, and it probably isn't much different in TCO.


This. But at least the OP admits he needs the "extension".
 
2013-01-21 01:55:34 AM  
CSB: two days ago driving around Berkeley I saw my first Tesla S. I said, "whoah," and pulled over to let it pass so I could watch it in front of me. We followed it for a few blocks before changing directions.

It looked like a high-end car, but was distinctively itself - didn't look like other brand models. The navy blue paint was top quality and the body panels looked like metal, even if maybe they weren't. The whole package looked as good as a European luxury brand, except that the chrome trim looked a little off to me.

It moved like it had unlimited torque, and the driver wasn't holding it back. It looked very solid and stable. If you weren't a car person, like my wife isn't, you'd say "nice car" and have no idea it was electric.
 
2013-01-21 03:44:09 AM  

rnatalie: You can adjust the various suspension and other performance features (I immediately turned on creep mode).


It can turn into a white van with "free candy" written on the side with the push of a button? I'm sold+

/there's a Tesla Roadster that some guy parks in the main train station lot here and uses the free charging ports. Slick looking car.
 
2013-01-21 11:11:22 AM  
Not that kind of "creep."

heypete: rnatalie: You can adjust the various suspension and other performance features (I immediately turned on creep mode).

It can turn into a white van with "free candy" written on the side with the push of a button? I'm sold+


Not that sort of "creep."   Creep mode causes the car to move forward slowly when you release your foot from the brake as a traditional automatic transmission car would.   Otherwise, the thing behaves like a golf cart.   Nothing happens until you stomp on the accellerator.
 
2013-01-21 03:21:58 PM  

rnatalie: Not that kind of "creep."heypete: rnatalie: You can adjust the various suspension and other performance features (I immediately turned on creep mode).

It can turn into a white van with "free candy" written on the side with the push of a button? I'm sold+

Not that sort of "creep."   Creep mode causes the car to move forward slowly when you release your foot from the brake as a traditional automatic transmission car would.   Otherwise, the thing behaves like a golf cart.   Nothing happens until you stomp on the accellerator.


The real issue was that the car would roll downhill if you let off the brakes, because as you point out, "nothing happens" until you push the accelerator. Like a manual transmission, with the clutch let out - nothing holding the car.
 
2013-01-22 02:27:02 PM  

eddievercetti: But the Model S as fast and advanced as it is costs more than a Lexus? NO.


You have to remember that your standard car costs something like 25 cents a mile between gasoline, oil changes, and other maintenance. A Model S runs more like 4 cents a mile. It's not break even yet, but it's close.

fusillade762: There's a Tesla dealership inside one of my local shopping malls. Kinda jarring after all the clothing, jewelry, makeup and bath shops.


If what I've read is true, it's not actually a 'dealership', it's a showroom; you buy all Tesla vehicles directly from the factory. They actually got sued for it last year because established dealers wanted in on it. Tesla's argument is that there's no independent dealers to put out of business and asking a dealer to sell both gasoline and electric vehicles is a conflict of interest(not to mention the different makers). I'm not saying I agree with that argument, but that's their deal.

HotWingAgenda: Did I miss the part where they have fixed the biggest problem with electric vehicles - the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets? I'd happily ride a Brammo Empulse if I had any way to plug it in.


It's a high end sedan; the target market right now is homeowners. Still, make 'dedicated parking spot w/charger' a desired feature that they can charge a bit more rent for, or even just that EV drivers tend to be better renters, sufficiently to justify the expense of adding charging stations and they'll do so. Heck, there's quite a few companies in Silicon Valley and elsewhere that have put charging stations in their parking lots. Many of those companies even allow their employees to charge vehicles for free!

Multiplex chargers are of course more expensive than individual ones, but like most things are actually cheaper per port. Add in the ability to play with charge levels and times and such and they can get a serious cut from the electric company on pricing.

SuperT: also, these cars are great and all, but doesn't it take more energy and greenhouse gas generation to mine the lithium, make batteries etc, than will be saved in gas costs?


Only if you NEVER EVER recycle the 100% recyclable batteries that are so valuable companies will pay you money for them, in order to recycle them.

HotWingAgenda: They just raised prices because they know they can get away with it, and for no other reason


Did you read the article? They raised prices half the percent of the cpi increase of the time since they put the car out. While it's more money, in constant dollars it's still cheaper than when it came out - by something like 4%. They need to turn a profit somehow.
 
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