If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Forbes)   Not News: US auto maker Tesla Motors makes amazing electric cars. News:Tesla Motors is the second oldest publicly traded US auto maker. HOLY FARK: The NHTSA's roof crush test actually broke when it tried to crush the Model S   (forbes.com) divider line 72
    More: Cool, Model S, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, automakers, Ford GT, Elon Musk, unanimous decision  
•       •       •

5750 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Jan 2013 at 6:58 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



72 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-01-19 10:52:24 PM  

GAT_00: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.


Um, the Model T was reduced in price that much because Henry Ford basically invented the assembly line process and revolutionized manufacturing (and changed the world by doing so). I don't think Tesla is going to do anything quite like that.

Anyway, the battery technology is a dead end, barring some massive technological advance. Fuel cells are where its at assumming someone solves the problem of storing hydrogen fuel, which is the current difficulty if I understand aright.
 
2013-01-19 11:43:40 PM  
I own the car. It's flat out fantastic. I've had no issues since taking delivery. Feels like you're driving a car from 2023. There is no doubt in my mind that every car will ultimately function like this one.

All that said, this is definitely early adopter territory. Not for everyone. And yes, it's very expensive to purchase. If Tesla can survive as a company, it's my hope that they manufacture a 40K-ish model for everyone.

In terms of charging, definitely tough if you're in a shared garage, e.g. an apartment building. If you're in a home, it's pretty easy. You install a 240/50 outlet in your garage, and you're good to go.
 
2013-01-19 11:49:09 PM  
I love the Model X. I'd love to get one, but it's out of my price range.

It's not about the environment or anything like that. The idea of charging your car while you sleep is so damn appealing to me. I love the idea of waking up every morning to a full tank. I also hate going to gas stations.
 
2013-01-19 11:57:28 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: crotchgrabber: Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.

e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."

Well, they do. They just typically only have one gear at the moment, because, well, Tesla couldn't figure out how to make two work.


Actually they only have one gear because that gear maxes out at over 15000 RPM, which is well above the top speed of 130mph. For those in the cheap seats, that means no energy loss shifting gears. Also, no waiting for the engine to suck in and compress air, no waiting for fuel to get injected. Instead of hitting the pedal and waiting 3 seconds to experience the sensation of speed you get 440lbs of thrust delivered immediately at 0 RPM.

You dinosaurs need to die off already. When a combustion engine sleeps it dreams of being electric.
 
2013-01-20 12:00:20 AM  

clmazin: I own the car. It's flat out fantastic. I've had no issues since taking delivery. Feels like you're driving a car from 2023. There is no doubt in my mind that every car will ultimately function like this one.

All that said, this is definitely early adopter territory. Not for everyone. And yes, it's very expensive to purchase. If Tesla can survive as a company, it's my hope that they manufacture a 40K-ish model for everyone.

In terms of charging, definitely tough if you're in a shared garage, e.g. an apartment building. If you're in a home, it's pretty easy. You install a 240/50 outlet in your garage, and you're good to go.


Did yours come with the correct wheels and trim? I've heard than many owners are getting a car that wasn't what they ordered (mismatched carbon fiber and piano black trim being common), and are being told that eventually Tesla will send the correct wheels, seats, etc. when they come in.
 
2013-01-20 12:04:14 AM  

Kraftwerk Orange: GAT_00: L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?

They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.

Currently, the "Sleep Mode" causes the 12V battery to die, which then makes the whole car undrivable.

Not to mention the reviewer who was held hostage by his when it wouldn't let go of the charging plug. The had to fly in a repairman to fix it. Considering Tesla has no plans to open up local dealerships, and that they want require owners to pay $600 a year for service (in order not to void the warranty) - having to wait a few days to get a minor issue like not being able to move the car out of your driveway might be a concern.

/not a Tesla hater, just not a fan of their business plan regarding dealers and service
//all cars have problems, brand new ones using brand new tech even more so


this.
 
2013-01-20 12:16:39 AM  

GAT_00: xanadian: Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.


In 1925, the base Model T cost $290. Adjusted for inflation, that would be about $3700. I don't think Tesla, or even Tata is going to have anything in the price range in the U.S.
 
2013-01-20 12:25:01 AM  

Darth Otter: GAT_00: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.

Um, the Model T was reduced in price that much because Henry Ford basically invented the assembly line process and revolutionized manufacturing (and changed the world by doing so). I don't think Tesla is going to do anything quite like that.

Anyway, the battery technology is a dead end, barring some massive technological advance. Fuel cells are where its at assumming someone solves the problem of storing hydrogen fuel, which is the current difficulty if I understand aright.


Tesla uses laptop batteries at the present, and don't appear to be too concerned about developing a battery manufacturing division themselves, so they'll always be at the mercy of what's on the market.

OTOH, they are linked up with Toyota and Mercedes, who have two of the better FCV programs going on. The irony, if Tesla were to integrate a fuel cell into a future vehicle, would be astounding.
 
2013-01-20 12:33:38 AM  
When the SL-C's monocock chasis was strength-tested by the Australian government, they ripped the anchor bolts out of the floor.

www.diariomotor.com

Also an American car (It'll run you about $44,000 + the drivetrain of your choice)
 
2013-01-20 01:12:45 AM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Did yours come with the correct wheels and trim? I've heard than many owners are getting a car that wasn't what they ordered (mismatched carbon fiber and piano black trim being common), and are being told that eventually Tesla will send the correct wheels, seats, etc. when they come in.


Yup. Everything was spot on. Paint, wheels, interior, options. The only hiccup I experienced was that the charging cable shipped with the car was faulty. I picked up a new one at the local service center (I'm in LA), and I was good to go. Barring that option, they were willing to overnight FedEx me one.

I'm a completely satisfied customer so far. If I experience any drastic setbacks, that would obviously change, but for now... I think the Tesla is head and shoulders above any other car I've ever owned.
 
2013-01-20 03:08:07 AM  
With everyone running them down on fark and the plant really starting to boom (Lots of traffic in their parking lot) it could be time to buy, Mortimer. Buy!
 
2013-01-20 03:18:02 AM  

washburn777: If you want one a bunch of Tesla showrooms have Certified Pre-Owned Roadsters in stock for sale. The one in Portland has 9 of them. Average resale price is upwards of 90k. I also WANT.


It would be nice to just rent one.
 
2013-01-20 03:32:34 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Did I miss the part where they have fixed the biggest problem with electric vehicles - the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets? I'd happily ride a Brammo Empulse if I had any way to plug it in.


It isn't really a problem that needs to be solved until we have an electric car. It wouldn't take to much to set up some charging bays in an apartment complex or job sites. I'll bet that little wheel in the meters gets moving.
 
2013-01-20 07:12:10 AM  

crotchgrabber: Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.

e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."


Apparently, the Tesla Roadster had a two speed trans, for high and low acceleration rates, and the high accel rate gear was simply disabled out of the factory on the initial run, until they could get hardware that could take the stress.  Also,  http://www.plugincars.com/efficiency-multi-speed-transmissions-electr i c-cars-107656.html
 
2013-01-20 07:50:39 AM  
Meh, I'd rather get a volt. Go on a long road trip, fill up the gas tank and you don't have to strategize finding a place to plug in.
 
2013-01-20 09:18:52 AM  
The model S was is a hoot to drive.   I got a call from a friend who wanted to know if I wanted to go test drive one and be interviewed as to my opinions on it.   When I got there they fitted me with a wireless mike, stuck two gopros at various places and put a camera man in the right seat.   The producer in the back seat asked me questions while I drove.   To make it so I didn't have to think too hard, they put an Audi A7 car ahead of me as a pace car.

I got out on the highway and put my foot down.   The thing just zipped up to 70+ completely smoothly and quickly.   No automatic (or manual) shifting points, just pure acceleration.    Near the end of the drive, I switched into the A7 (not a bad car in it's own right) but you felt the thing shifting.

For a "larger" sports car, the S still can be thrown around the curves and it tracks nicely (it handles better than the A7 in my opinion and as well as my A4).

The thing is geeked out.   The center display has a nav system based on google maps (it does have a 3G alas no LTE) link for internet and uploading traffic.   You can adjust the various suspension and other performance features (I immediately turned on creep mode).    One amusing feature is that you can have it raise one wheel using the suspension enough to be able to change the low profile tire.

The model I drove had something like a 350 mile range.    That's pretty cool for almost all my driving.
 
2013-01-20 09:55:33 AM  

Mad_Radhu: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

Aren't most gas guzzling beasts like the Ford Expedition somewhere around $40k+? Add in incentives and fuel savings, and it probably isn't much different in TCO.


This. But at least the OP admits he needs the "extension".
 
2013-01-21 01:55:34 AM  
CSB: two days ago driving around Berkeley I saw my first Tesla S. I said, "whoah," and pulled over to let it pass so I could watch it in front of me. We followed it for a few blocks before changing directions.

It looked like a high-end car, but was distinctively itself - didn't look like other brand models. The navy blue paint was top quality and the body panels looked like metal, even if maybe they weren't. The whole package looked as good as a European luxury brand, except that the chrome trim looked a little off to me.

It moved like it had unlimited torque, and the driver wasn't holding it back. It looked very solid and stable. If you weren't a car person, like my wife isn't, you'd say "nice car" and have no idea it was electric.
 
2013-01-21 03:44:09 AM  

rnatalie: You can adjust the various suspension and other performance features (I immediately turned on creep mode).


It can turn into a white van with "free candy" written on the side with the push of a button? I'm sold+

/there's a Tesla Roadster that some guy parks in the main train station lot here and uses the free charging ports. Slick looking car.
 
2013-01-21 11:11:22 AM  
Not that kind of "creep."

heypete: rnatalie: You can adjust the various suspension and other performance features (I immediately turned on creep mode).

It can turn into a white van with "free candy" written on the side with the push of a button? I'm sold+


Not that sort of "creep."   Creep mode causes the car to move forward slowly when you release your foot from the brake as a traditional automatic transmission car would.   Otherwise, the thing behaves like a golf cart.   Nothing happens until you stomp on the accellerator.
 
2013-01-21 03:21:58 PM  

rnatalie: Not that kind of "creep."heypete: rnatalie: You can adjust the various suspension and other performance features (I immediately turned on creep mode).

It can turn into a white van with "free candy" written on the side with the push of a button? I'm sold+

Not that sort of "creep."   Creep mode causes the car to move forward slowly when you release your foot from the brake as a traditional automatic transmission car would.   Otherwise, the thing behaves like a golf cart.   Nothing happens until you stomp on the accellerator.


The real issue was that the car would roll downhill if you let off the brakes, because as you point out, "nothing happens" until you push the accelerator. Like a manual transmission, with the clutch let out - nothing holding the car.
 
2013-01-22 02:27:02 PM  

eddievercetti: But the Model S as fast and advanced as it is costs more than a Lexus? NO.


You have to remember that your standard car costs something like 25 cents a mile between gasoline, oil changes, and other maintenance. A Model S runs more like 4 cents a mile. It's not break even yet, but it's close.

fusillade762: There's a Tesla dealership inside one of my local shopping malls. Kinda jarring after all the clothing, jewelry, makeup and bath shops.


If what I've read is true, it's not actually a 'dealership', it's a showroom; you buy all Tesla vehicles directly from the factory. They actually got sued for it last year because established dealers wanted in on it. Tesla's argument is that there's no independent dealers to put out of business and asking a dealer to sell both gasoline and electric vehicles is a conflict of interest(not to mention the different makers). I'm not saying I agree with that argument, but that's their deal.

HotWingAgenda: Did I miss the part where they have fixed the biggest problem with electric vehicles - the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets? I'd happily ride a Brammo Empulse if I had any way to plug it in.


It's a high end sedan; the target market right now is homeowners. Still, make 'dedicated parking spot w/charger' a desired feature that they can charge a bit more rent for, or even just that EV drivers tend to be better renters, sufficiently to justify the expense of adding charging stations and they'll do so. Heck, there's quite a few companies in Silicon Valley and elsewhere that have put charging stations in their parking lots. Many of those companies even allow their employees to charge vehicles for free!

Multiplex chargers are of course more expensive than individual ones, but like most things are actually cheaper per port. Add in the ability to play with charge levels and times and such and they can get a serious cut from the electric company on pricing.

SuperT: also, these cars are great and all, but doesn't it take more energy and greenhouse gas generation to mine the lithium, make batteries etc, than will be saved in gas costs?


Only if you NEVER EVER recycle the 100% recyclable batteries that are so valuable companies will pay you money for them, in order to recycle them.

HotWingAgenda: They just raised prices because they know they can get away with it, and for no other reason


Did you read the article? They raised prices half the percent of the cpi increase of the time since they put the car out. While it's more money, in constant dollars it's still cheaper than when it came out - by something like 4%. They need to turn a profit somehow.
 
Displayed 22 of 72 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


Report