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(Forbes)   Not News: US auto maker Tesla Motors makes amazing electric cars. News:Tesla Motors is the second oldest publicly traded US auto maker. HOLY FARK: The NHTSA's roof crush test actually broke when it tried to crush the Model S   (forbes.com) divider line 72
    More: Cool, Model S, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, automakers, Ford GT, Elon Musk, unanimous decision  
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5748 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Jan 2013 at 6:58 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-19 04:05:24 PM

Sorry, I can't hear the name Tesla without my mind going straight to this


Drunk History
 
2013-01-19 04:24:23 PM
This ad for Tesla Motors brought to us by Fark.com.  Or we're just reposting an ad from Forbes for Tesla willingly, which is even dumber since I assume that Drew isn't getting paid in that case.
 
2013-01-19 04:44:26 PM
Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.
 
2013-01-19 05:05:26 PM
Saw the Roadster today, not bad for a car that used to be a Elise.

But the Model S as fast and advanced as it is costs more than a Lexus? NO.
 
2013-01-19 05:07:03 PM

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


Gas -guzzling beasts were not affordable to the vast majority of Americans for the first several decades also. It's gotta start somewhere.
 
2013-01-19 05:30:15 PM
Yeah, but Al Gore is fat.

So there.
 
2013-01-19 05:39:15 PM
I couldn't hear how awesome the car was because the author has a big fat giant Tesla in his mouth.  And he's gobbling it like candy.
 
2013-01-19 05:39:31 PM

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.
 
2013-01-19 05:45:04 PM

Cuchulane: Sorry, I can't hear the name Tesla without my mind going straight to this
Drunk History


Sorry I can't hear the name Tesla without my mind going straight to this:

No no no
Tesla girls Tesla girls
Testing out theories
Electric chairs and dynamos
Dressed to kill they're killing me
But heaven knows their recipe
No no no
 
2013-01-19 05:57:35 PM
There's a Tesla dealership inside one of my local shopping malls. Kinda jarring after all the clothing, jewelry, makeup and bath shops.

That's all I got.
 
2013-01-19 05:59:07 PM
"The front trunk (often referred to as the "frunk") can fit a whole person. "

That's what I'm talking about. Maybe I said too much.
 
2013-01-19 06:22:47 PM

GAT_00: That makes a Tesla quite affordable.


Only if you're paying me to read your numbers.

$50K is $50K. Maybe in 1901 $50K went further. Cleopatra married her brother, too. That doesn't mean you can marry yours today.

In the us, the median personal income is below $50K a year. Tesla cars are cool, but they cost most people a year of salary. Until that price comes down, they're a luxury item.
 
2013-01-19 06:56:03 PM

GAT_00: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.


There's also the matter of not having to buy gasoline.  That stuff is pricey!

Am seriously considering one of these.  I like the company very much and, being in Arizona, tossing up some solar panels to charge the car is highly appealing.  Paying a premium would be worth it just to give the finger to every gas station I pass.

My concerns are more about service, repair and reliability.  If that 17" panel craps itself, would you be able to get home or have to call the tow truck?  If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?  And can I wrench on it myself?

If it does well in the real world, I'll buy one.
 
2013-01-19 06:59:42 PM

L.D. Ablo: There's also the matter of not having to buy gasoline. That stuff is pricey!


we also pay between $4-$14 a gallon of gas if you include government subsidies and tax breaks to the oil industry. It's not a fair playing field, we need to invest a lot more in energy storage cause our current systems (air, train cars, batteries, capacitors, flywheels, etc...) are not up to task and it's holding us back from making major breakthroughs.
 
2013-01-19 07:07:41 PM

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


As I recall, the business plan ran somewhere along the lines of:

1st, high end sports car for the rich.
Use that money to make the highish-end luxury sedan.
Use that money to make cheaper family car, etc.
 
2013-01-19 07:15:49 PM

L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?


They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.
 
2013-01-19 07:16:44 PM

GAT_00: L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?

They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.


Ignore the 3 weeks.  That should be months.
 
2013-01-19 07:35:28 PM

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


Pointless comment is pointless.

The Cadillac Escalade's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.
 
2013-01-19 07:36:43 PM
The Supercharger network they announced (9.24.2012) is one of the fastest in the network and directly addressed (and essentially demolishes) some of the major doubts about EV's.
Those doubts would be:
- range anxiety (addressed because each supercharger station increases the distance people are able to travel significantly)
- EV's are just pushing emissions to the power plant (addressed b/c many of the stations are to have solar panels on top and be free from the grid)
- costs of EV's (addressed b/c charging is free for Model S owners, driving the cost of driving the same distance in an EV vs an ICEV even lower)


Did I miss the part where they have fixed the biggest problem with electric vehicles - the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets? I'd happily ride a Brammo Empulse if I had any way to plug it in.
 
2013-01-19 07:43:16 PM
I just saw where Boeing's putting a ton of batteries on the market, win win!
 
2013-01-19 07:43:55 PM

jaytkay: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

Pointless comment is pointless.

The Cadillac Escalade's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.


And I would point out that the Tesla's price has already come down significantly.  A couple of years ago, there was no model that was less than $100K.

And as electric cars catch on, the price will continue to drop, and the infrastructure to support them will be there.
 
2013-01-19 07:46:11 PM

HotWingAgenda: the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets?


Then why do you need a car? Move into the city and use buses and trains or move into the country and get yourself a house.
 
2013-01-19 07:49:37 PM

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


One of the reasons is to stifle demand, I think. You can't buy one, you have to reserve it.
 
2013-01-19 07:53:11 PM

revrendjim: "The front trunk (often referred to as the "frunk") can fit a whole person. "

That's what I'm talking about. Maybe I said too much.


Sweet! My days of sawing off limbs to make them fit is over!
 
2013-01-19 07:55:35 PM

doglover: Tesla cars are cool, but they cost most people a year of salary. Until that price comes down, they're a luxury item.


I bet you were saying this in 1970 about personal computers.
 
2013-01-19 07:59:13 PM
Also broke the roof crush machine:

cars-database.com
 
2013-01-19 08:02:17 PM

jake_lex: And I would point out that the Tesla's price has already come down significantly.


Not correct:

Increasing prices on an annual basis is standard practice in the automobile industry and almost every industry for that matter. The price increase we are announcing today . . . They just raised prices because they know they can get away with it, and for no other reason

doglover: HotWingAgenda: the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets?

Then why do you need a car? Move into the city and use buses and trains or move into the country and get yourself a house.


I actually started in the city, commuting entirely by foot or public transport, and moved outside of it fairly recently. I couldn't afford it; in the US, at least in my area, it's cheaper to rent an apartment in a suburb and drive a car than to live in a city without one. And I would have to make more than triple my wages to be able to even rent a freestanding house, much less own.
 
2013-01-19 08:03:37 PM

cameroncrazy1984: doglover: Tesla cars are cool, but they cost most people a year of salary. Until that price comes down, they're a luxury item.

I bet you were saying this in 1970 about personal computers.


It was true then, too. Now I can pick up a computer that works for free on Craigslist, or a decent computer for pocket change anywhere.

$50K is a lot for a car for most people, even if it is electric and and made by Elrond Musk.
 
2013-01-19 08:11:45 PM

GAT_00: L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?

They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.


Currently, the "Sleep Mode" causes the 12V battery to die, which then makes the whole car undrivable.

Not to mention the reviewer who was held hostage by his when it wouldn't let go of the charging plug. The had to fly in a repairman to fix it. Considering Tesla has no plans to open up local dealerships, and that they want require owners to pay $600 a year for service (in order not to void the warranty) - having to wait a few days to get a minor issue like not being able to move the car out of your driveway might be a concern.


www.autoweek.com

/not a Tesla hater, just not a fan of their business plan regarding dealers and service
//all cars have problems, brand new ones using brand new tech even more so
 
2013-01-19 08:16:15 PM

doglover: HotWingAgenda: the fact that the vast majority of Americans live in apartment buildings without garages and therefore no power outlets?

Then why do you need a car? Move into the city and use buses and trains or move into the country and get yourself a house.


because public transit in places that aren't NYC generally sucks.

and because some of us live in places where scumbag suburbs use property tax credits to attract businesses to them, so we end up working in the burbs and living downtown. it's like a farking bizzaro world. I'm working on rectifying this particular issue.

also, these cars are great and all, but doesn't it take more energy and greenhouse gas generation to mine the lithium, make batteries etc, than will be saved in gas costs?

what about those of us who live in old ass cities, we don't have off street parking generally, and our curbs don't have plug ins.
 
2013-01-19 08:21:00 PM
Did they ever fix that thing where the transmissions stopped working after 5000 miles? Or is there some other reason why no one is buying them?
 
2013-01-19 08:21:34 PM

GAT_00: L.D. Ablo: If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?

They do have a known problem in that you cannot let the battery drain completely.  It has minor constant operations running, which give a full charge a lifetime of about 3 weeks if not driven.  If the battery flatlines, it's totally worthless. You have to get Tesla to come pick it up to fix it.


I remember hearing that kind of thing about the P1, which I owned for 10 years. OMFGBBQ your battery will die and it will cost you Ten Thousand Dollars... next week! any minute!

By the time the car went of to the Great Junkyard in the ... um... next town over, battery prices had dropped to 2-3K and my car never needed a new one.
 
2013-01-19 08:25:07 PM
As soon as they setup their quick charge network in my area of Canada I'm buying one.
 
2013-01-19 08:29:46 PM

Tourney3p0: Did they ever fix that thing where the transmissions stopped working after 5000 miles? Or is there some other reason why no one is buying them?


Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?
 
2013-01-19 08:33:44 PM

loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?


I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.
 
2013-01-19 08:37:25 PM

Tourney3p0: when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate.


And wikipedia has no entry on this why?
 
2013-01-19 08:38:25 PM

doglover:

And wikipedia has no entry on this why?


I don't know. Maybe you should wikipedia that.
 
2013-01-19 08:41:56 PM

doglover: Tourney3p0: when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate.

And wikipedia has no entry on this why?


Never mind. Checked it myself.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

Subsequent to completion of production car number one at Hethel, the company announced problems with transmission reliability. The development transmission, with first gear enabled to accelerate 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) in 4 seconds, was reported to have a life expectancy of as low as only a few thousand miles. Tesla Motors' first two transmission suppliers were unable to produce transmissions, in quantity, that could withstand the gear-shift requirements of the high torque, high rpm electric motor. In December 2007, Tesla Motors announced plans to ship the initial Roadsters with the transmissions locked into second gear to provide 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) acceleration in 5.7 seconds. The first production car was not delivered with this interim solution; P1 has both transmission gears enabled. According to the plan, the initial transmissions were to be swapped out under warranty when the finalized transmission, power electronics module (PEM), and cooling system became available. The EPA range of the car was also restated downward from 245 to 221 miles (394 to 356 km). The downward revision was attributed to an error in equipment calibration at the laboratory that conducted the original test.[53][54][55]
 
2013-01-19 08:42:51 PM

Tourney3p0: doglover: Tourney3p0: when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate.

And wikipedia has no entry on this why?

Never mind. Checked it myself.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

Subsequent to completion of production car number one at Hethel, the company announced problems with transmission reliability. The development transmission, with first gear enabled to accelerate 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) in 4 seconds, was reported to have a life expectancy of as low as only a few thousand miles. Tesla Motors' first two transmission suppliers were unable to produce transmissions, in quantity, that could withstand the gear-shift requirements of the high torque, high rpm electric motor. In December 2007, Tesla Motors announced plans to ship the initial Roadsters with the transmissions locked into second gear to provide 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) acceleration in 5.7 seconds. The first production car was not delivered with this interim solution; P1 has both transmission gears enabled. According to the plan, the initial transmissions were to be swapped out under warranty when the finalized transmission, power electronics module (PEM), and cooling system became available. The EPA range of the car was also restated downward from 245 to 221 miles (394 to 356 km). The downward revision was attributed to an error in equipment calibration at the laboratory that conducted the original test.[53][54][55]


Oops.
 
2013-01-19 08:43:09 PM

Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.


e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."
 
2013-01-19 08:43:16 PM

eddievercetti: But the Model S as fast and advanced as it is costs more than a Lexus? NO.


*checks Lexus website* I highly suspect that they are competing with the $47k Lexus GS, not the rebadged Corolla.

The Tesla S is a very large, very fast, very fancy, rear-wheel-drive luxury sedan. It is priced in the same range as a BMW 5 series, a Mercedes E class, Audi S5, or (I see now) a Lexus GS.

Much as I'd like to be, I'm not in their target market.

/brother-in-law works there.
//no, he can't get me a discount
 
2013-01-19 08:43:23 PM
Anyone curious as to how actual Tesla customers feel about their cars, 10 minutes at www.teslamotors.com/forums will give you a good indication. Any owner who drives their cars is well aware of what Tesla is doing as a company. There have been some growing pains at Tesla (delivery issues, early cash-flow problems), but what are the yardsticks of a successful company? 1) Are they meeting their production/sales goals? Yes. 2) Are their customers happy? Hell yes.

Back under your bridges, trolls. You too, Edison. Tesla wins.
 
2013-01-19 08:44:29 PM

Tourney3p0: I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate


The S has no transmission. I didn't know the Roadster had one -- learn something new every day.
 
2013-01-19 08:51:12 PM

washburn777: Anyone curious as to how actual Tesla customers feel about their cars, 10 minutes at www.teslamotors.com/forums will give you a good indication. Any owner who drives their cars is well aware of what Tesla is doing as a company. There have been some growing pains at Tesla (delivery issues, early cash-flow problems), but what are the yardsticks of a successful company? 1) Are they meeting their production/sales goals? Yes. 2) Are their customers happy? Hell yes.

Back under your bridges, trolls. You too, Edison. Tesla wins.


I want them to succeed. The Roadster and Model S look great and hearing great things about them. Their new SUV is eh but I get they had to make it. Fisker on the other hand, they 65% from being farked for good.
 
2013-01-19 08:53:00 PM
If by 'transmission' you mean one speed gearbox, then I guess a person could argue the Model S has a transmission. But I'm guessing the safer bet is you have no idea how an electric car works.
 
2013-01-19 08:58:34 PM

crotchgrabber: Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.

e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."


If you want one a bunch of Tesla showrooms have Certified Pre-Owned Roadsters in stock for sale. The one in Portland has 9 of them. Average resale price is upwards of 90k. I also WANT.
 
2013-01-19 09:13:09 PM

crotchgrabber: Tourney3p0: loser0:
Know how I know you don't know what's under the hood of a Tesla?

I know what was under the hood of a Tesla a few years ago, when the transmissions had a nearly 100% failure rate. If that has changed, please elaborate. That was the entire point of the question. What is the point of responding with "Know how I know you don't know the answer to your question?" If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, dipshiat.

e-cars don't have trannies.

I want a roadster. Saw a guy take one around Laguna Seca during a track day for some club. My response was along the lines of "Phwa...."


Well, they do. They just typically only have one gear at the moment, because, well, Tesla couldn't figure out how to make two work.
 
2013-01-19 09:19:27 PM
That is a good-looking car.

images.thecarconnection.com

/ Not a car guy, but c'mon, that is a looker
 
2013-01-19 09:25:44 PM

L.D. Ablo: GAT_00: xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.

A Model T of 1909 cost $850.  That's just shy of $21k today.  When you add in GDP, which was $32B compared to $15T today, $850 was much bigger than $21k today, since $850 was a couple of years average pay.  The sedan is going to cost around $50k.

Production reduces costs.  The Model T was around a third of the original price 10 years later.  That makes a Tesla quite affordable.

There's also the matter of not having to buy gasoline.  That stuff is pricey!

Am seriously considering one of these.  I like the company very much and, being in Arizona, tossing up some solar panels to charge the car is highly appealing.  Paying a premium would be worth it just to give the finger to every gas station I pass.

My concerns are more about service, repair and reliability.  If that 17" panel craps itself, would you be able to get home or have to call the tow truck?  If someone backs into it, will I have to have the entire battery replaced?  And can I wrench on it myself?

If it does well in the real world, I'll buy one.


You must be a magic mechanic/owner that gladly voids factory warrantees. Many new vehicles come with roadside assistance. Intelligent people without r/a pay the few measly bucks for AAA. While you may be special, most people do not assault their new motor vehicles with tools, and they haven't for a very long time. it's that 'I don't have a $400K diagnostic computer and factory certification training' that tends to keep wily hands off cars that will be repaired for free by the dealer.

You're not about to buy one, now or in the future. it takes money to take that vehicle home.
 
2013-01-19 10:50:24 PM

xanadian: Another fun fact. The Model S's price is well out of range of the vast majority of Americans.

F the environment. I'll keep driving gas-guzzling, global-warming beasts until they make these fancy-shmancy cars considerably more affordable.


Aren't most gas guzzling beasts like the Ford Expedition somewhere around $40k+? Add in incentives and fuel savings, and it probably isn't much different in TCO.
 
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