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(Gawker)   "We have lots of Neanderthal parts around the lab. We are creating Neanderthal cells. Let's say someone has a healthy, normal Neanderthal baby. Well, then, everyone will want to have a Neanderthal kid"   (gawker.com) divider line 105
    More: Unlikely, Neanderthals, prison cells, MIT Technology Review, Neanderthal cells, Neanderthal baby, Neanderthal kid  
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2397 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Jan 2013 at 12:56 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-19 12:11:19 PM  
Sounds like a good way for the GOP to expand its shrinking base.


I kid, I kid. The Neanderthal was very likely just as intelligent as us.
 
2013-01-19 12:13:12 PM  
For some reason I want this to happen badly. Naturally bringing back dinosaurs would be better but a caveman is almost as cool.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-19 12:13:28 PM  
Neanderthal babies will really mess with schools because they'll have to be segregated into their own No Child Left Behind category. If the one caveman kid flunks, your entire school will be graded a failure by state authorities.
 
2013-01-19 12:16:15 PM  

RTOGUY: For some reason I want this to happen badly. Naturally bringing back dinosaurs would be better but a caveman is almost as cool.


Well, we could always use another lawyer.
 
2013-01-19 12:22:28 PM  
Judging by the politics threads, I was under the impression people have been having neanderthal babies for years
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-19 12:32:42 PM  
scientists cloned an extinct subspecies of ibex

Why don't they just get the same woman?  She must have been really adventurous.
 
2013-01-19 12:34:17 PM  

GAT_00: RTOGUY: For some reason I want this to happen badly. Naturally bringing back dinosaurs would be better but a caveman is almost as cool.

Well, we could always use another lawyer.


It's just Keyrock, Your Honor.
 
2013-01-19 12:59:58 PM  
How is babby formed?
 
2013-01-19 01:01:11 PM  

RTOGUY: For some reason I want this to happen badly.



You're in luck.  If it happens at all, I am almost certain that it will happen badly.
 
2013-01-19 01:04:06 PM  
Just make sure he doesn't see his wife. She's on display at the British Museum
 
2013-01-19 01:08:51 PM  
FTA: "Neanderthal women generally had a wider birth canal than human women."

s2.postimage.org
 
2013-01-19 01:11:01 PM  
Is this a SyFy channel original movie???
 
2013-01-19 01:14:01 PM  

Brick-House: Is this a SyFy channel original movie???


I believe it was called an Ugly Little Boy and was based on an Asimov short story
 
2013-01-19 01:17:12 PM  
The reason the monster went bonkers in the Frankenstein novel is because he was promised a wife. We're creating a creature with what I would assume to be human emotions but won't be human enough to live in a normal society. He'll have to be caged in a zoo and alone. This is just very wrong.
 
2013-01-19 01:20:15 PM  
FTA: "Neanderthal women generally had a wider birth canal than human women."

eyesonstars.com
 
2013-01-19 01:22:43 PM  

Muta: The reason the monster went bonkers in the Frankenstein novel is because he was promised a wife. We're creating a creature with what I would assume to be human emotions but won't be human enough to live in a normal society. He'll have to be caged in a zoo and alone. This is just very wrong.


Only partly. He went bonkers because his creator abandoned and was repulsed by him, and as he got smarter he realized he'd never fit into society. The wife bit was just fuel to the fire.
 
2013-01-19 01:25:16 PM  
Wait...they're serious? They think this is a good idea?

How in the name of Zeus's butthole do they expect to get that through any IRB? Not to mention laws against human cloning...

I know it's not technically human, but it's certainly close enough. Especially when you consider that there are necessary exchanges between mother and child, or even surrogate and child. I can't even begin to consider how many things could go wrong or how completely and totally farked up this is. I don't mean to Godwin the thread, but this is nearly evil to the extent of Nazi human experiments. The only difference would be informed consent (I presume) on the part of the woman.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-19 01:26:01 PM  

Muta: The reason the monster went bonkers in the Frankenstein novel is because he was promised a wife. We're creating a creature with what I would assume to be human emotions but won't be human enough to live in a normal society. He'll have to be caged in a zoo and alone. This is just very wrong.


Speak for yourself you homo! (sapien).
www.scriptmag.com
 
2013-01-19 01:26:15 PM  
Begun, the Neanderthal wars have.
 
2013-01-19 01:33:13 PM  
I can see how they would think this is a good idea. Eventually Nicholas Cage will be too old to continue the Ghost Rider franchise, and someone will have to replace him.
 
2013-01-19 01:35:36 PM  

Captain James T. Smirk: I can see how they would think this is a good idea. Eventually Nicholas Cage will be too old to continue the Ghost Rider franchise, and someone will have to replace him.


Oh god, the second one was worse than the first one. Imagine how bad a third one would be.
 
2013-01-19 01:37:15 PM  

texdent: Captain James T. Smirk: I can see how they would think this is a good idea. Eventually Nicholas Cage will be too old to continue the Ghost Rider franchise, and someone will have to replace him.

Oh god, the second one was worse than the first one. Imagine how bad a third one would be.


But the important thing is most people won't notice that the studio switched actors on them!
 
2013-01-19 01:39:54 PM  
boingboing.net
 
2013-01-19 01:40:52 PM  
Darwin sighs and thinks, "dammit....do I really have to snuff these guys out AGAIN?"
 
2013-01-19 01:47:10 PM  
How is this new? We had at least 2 neanderthal kids where I went to school...
 
2013-01-19 01:47:51 PM  
The anthropologist in me would really really really like to see this happen. If nothing else is should definitively answer the question as to whether or not Neanderthals are a separate species or simply a subspecies of Homo sapien.
 
2013-01-19 01:50:59 PM  
I thought DNA had a half-life of around 200 or 500 years?
 
2013-01-19 01:52:49 PM  

vpb: Muta: The reason the monster went bonkers in the Frankenstein novel is because he was promised a wife. We're creating a creature with what I would assume to be human emotions but won't be human enough to live in a normal society. He'll have to be caged in a zoo and alone. This is just very wrong.

Speak for yourself you homo! (sapien).
[www.scriptmag.com image 365x365]


or, similarly

img849.imageshack.us

Do it, Homo!
 
2013-01-19 01:54:52 PM  
And I doubt it will turn out anything like this
blogue.us
 
2013-01-19 02:05:03 PM  
I dunno. This would just be wrong morally in my opinion.
 
2013-01-19 02:05:08 PM  
Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired.
 
2013-01-19 02:18:22 PM  
This falls flat at the crucial "And then what?" conjecture.

So in the best case scenario you get a live Neanderthal baby.  Do you raise it in the lab?  Let it go home and be raised by its mother like a normal human?  Kill and dissect it?
 
2013-01-19 02:19:26 PM  

Chariset: This falls flat at the crucial "And then what?" conjecture.

So in the best case scenario you get a live Neanderthal baby.  Do you raise it in the lab?  Let it go home and be raised by its mother like a normal human?  Kill and dissect it?


You send it to law school.
 
2013-01-19 02:22:50 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired.


Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.
 
2013-01-19 02:23:17 PM  

Intelligent_Donkey: I thought DNA had a half-life of around 200 or 500 years?


Ok, assuming this is true and you have x amount of viable DNA that is relatively well-preserved, every 200-500 years you lose half of that amount. So, depending on how much useable DNA you need end-game, it sounds doable.

Someone better learned than I chime in on this please
 
2013-01-19 02:27:00 PM  
As for the morality of doing this, I'm fairly in support of attempting to clone a Neanderthal. With proper oversight, I could see it done in a non-"icky" way. Find a willing mother go through similar conventions of artificial insemination. Shouldn't be too OMG NAZI TIME!!
 
2013-01-19 02:33:31 PM  

Chariset: This falls flat at the crucial "And then what?" conjecture.

So in the best case scenario you get a live Neanderthal baby.  Do you raise it in the lab?  Let it go home and be raised by its mother like a normal human?  Kill and dissect it?


Run it for Congress.
 
2013-01-19 02:36:44 PM  

Muta: The reason the monster went bonkers in the Frankenstein novel is because he was promised a wife. We're creating a creature with what I would assume to be human emotions but won't be human enough to live in a normal society. He'll have to be caged in a zoo and alone. This is just very wrong.


He just had the rotten luck to be born in the wrong century. He'd be right at home on some ancient battlefield swinging an Axe into somebody's face. They would tossed him girls like Nancy back then.
 
2013-01-19 02:36:58 PM  

Muta: The reason the monster went bonkers in the Frankenstein novel is because he was promised a wife. We're creating a creature with what I would assume to be human emotions but won't be human enough to live in a normal society. He'll have to be caged in a zoo and alone. This is just very wrong.


A Neanderthal would be so close to a modern human that if groomed and dressed in accordance with modern culture it would be indistinguishable from a modern human of robust, European build. Even going as far back as Homo habilis, unless you were a paleoanthropologist nobody would give a modernly groomed Homo habilis a second glance on the subway until they spoke (their voice would be more nasal than a modern human's voice and their tongue would have difficulty with complex pronunciation so they'd sound somewhat like a deaf person when they spoke).

It would be possible for scientists to raise this child in a way that its identity as a Neanderthal could be kept secret not only from the general public but from the child him or herself and the child would have no more problems fitting in in modern society than any other child does.

The only problem might come later when the adult Neanderthal chooses to mate. If it turns out Neanderthals are simply a subspecies of Homo sapien then there would be no problems. The resulting child would be no different from any number of Europeans who may be carrying Neanderthal DNA in their genes. If it turns out they are indeed a separate species then their offspring would be sterile.

This child could answer countless anthropological mysteries.

The biggest ethical problem I see is how certain are we of the viability of any Neanderthal DNA we've managed to collect. If degradation of the DNA is going to cause all sorts of health problems then it definitely shouldn't be attempted. If we're sure that we have complete Neanderthal DNA that will produce a viable healthy child I'd say go for it. We can ensure the child is raised in a loving, normal environment by parents who will care for it and be treated to all the rights and privileges of any human being. The child need never know that it is different from any other human being. Hell, we already let unfit people reproduce for any number of mind numbingly stupid reasons I don't see how this would be any different. As for the ethics of cloning human beings, there is no more mystical significance to a clone than there is an identical twin. There's nothing magic or sacred about clones just as there is nothing magic or sacred about any human being. I've never understood the "zomg! we must never clone a human being" hysteria. To me it's like a primitive superstition that identical twins should be put to death... or one of them should be raised as a female, in a convent, schooled in martial arts until s/he becomes a kick ass bounty hunter that makes everyone gay.
 
2013-01-19 02:39:05 PM  
I can actually see this taking off with the overly wealthy New Age types, especially if it becomes more difficult to adopt children from random third world countries. Just convince them that Neanderthals are more "spiritual" or "in touch with nature," whatever the hell that even means. Maybe throw in a free Cherokee hair tampon.
 
2013-01-19 02:39:48 PM  

Nickninja: Wait...they're serious? They think this is a good idea?

How in the name of Zeus's butthole do they expect to get that through any IRB? Not to mention laws against human cloning...

I know it's not technically human, but it's certainly close enough. Especially when you consider that there are necessary exchanges between mother and child, or even surrogate and child. I can't even begin to consider how many things could go wrong or how completely and totally farked up this is. I don't mean to Godwin the thread, but this is nearly evil to the extent of Nazi human experiments. The only difference would be informed consent (I presume) on the part of the woman.


Shaqandtinygirlfriend.jpg

Google and see, prude.
 
2013-01-19 02:40:19 PM  

Wasilla Hillbilly: As for the morality of doing this, I'm fairly in support of attempting to clone a Neanderthal. With proper oversight, I could see it done in a non-"icky" way. Find a willing mother go through similar conventions of artificial insemination. Shouldn't be too OMG NAZI TIME!!


IANAL, but I strongly suspect its legality and liability depends on the jurisdiction where it occurs. China? No problem. USA? Not so sure.
 
2013-01-19 02:43:32 PM  
Would the neanderthal be allowed to play professional sports with humans? If so, having neanderthal children would be a great retirement plan.
 
2013-01-19 02:47:21 PM  

Frank N Stein: I dunno. This would just be wrong morally in my opinion.


Ethics smethics. I WANT MY MONKEY-MAN!
 
2013-01-19 02:51:59 PM  
I asked Mrs. Eugenides if she'd be up for it. Nope. Heck I'd raise a Neandertalis-Sapiens.
 
2013-01-19 02:52:00 PM  

Nickninja: Wait...they're serious? They think this is a good idea?

How in the name of Zeus's butthole do they expect to get that through any IRB? Not to mention laws against human cloning...

I know it's not technically human, but it's certainly close enough. Especially when you consider that there are necessary exchanges between mother and child, or even surrogate and child. I can't even begin to consider how many things could go wrong or how completely and totally farked up this is. I don't mean to Godwin the thread, but this is nearly evil to the extent of Nazi human experiments. The only difference would be informed consent (I presume) on the part of the woman.


If there was an "overreaction of the year" prize you'd get it.

I have reservations, in fact I think everyone has reservations, but to suggest what is essentially cloning a human is nearly as evil as the Nazi experiments? Do you even know what the Nazi's did?

Anyway, on topic, despite reservations I think it would be a good idea to go ahead and do it, provided someone was already on board to raise it in as close to a normal human family and society as we can muster, like a control setting and environment all experiments have, so it becomes harder to dismiss traits as due to being raised in a different setting. It will answer so many questions, and open up the path to doing it for other species as well. We desperately need to get to dinosaurs.

If you're worried that it will become a freak show curiosity then just give it to Kris Jenner to raise. We have members of our species who make a fool of themselves for fame and money, he/she wouldn't need to, but wouldn't it be interesting to see what the Neanderthal made of it all? How much of our opinions are nature vs nurture? There are simply too many possible things to learn, not just about Neanderthals, but about other species, and about our own species, to refuse to act.

Hell, if it goes as badly as it did last time then at least he'll have a safe career in boxing guaranteed.

www.koanicsoul.com www.koanicsoul.com
 
2013-01-19 02:56:47 PM  

Captain James T. Smirk: texdent: Captain James T. Smirk: I can see how they would think this is a good idea. Eventually Nicholas Cage will be too old to continue the Ghost Rider franchise, and someone will have to replace him.

Oh god, the second one was worse than the first one. Imagine how bad a third one would be.

But the important thing is most people won't notice that the studio switched actors on them!


images.tvrage.com
 
2013-01-19 02:57:37 PM  

Raharu: Sounds like a good way for the GOP to expand its shrinking base.


I kid, I kid. The Neanderthal was very likely just as intelligent as us.


They also have telepathic communication and live in Katmandu.

/obscure?
 
2013-01-19 03:17:23 PM  
I say do it. It would be hilarious if they turned out more intelligent than us.

Maybe they were more interested in other things than breeding like rabbits.
 
2013-01-19 03:20:11 PM  
Just in time for the "My Bodyguard" reboot
 
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