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(Yahoo)   Rooney Rule slowly ushers in a new era of diversity in football: of 15 open Head Coach and GM positions in the NFL, 15 of them were filled by old white guys   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line 66
    More: Obvious, Rooney Rule, NFL, head coaches, Mike McCoy, linebackers coach, Romeo Crennel, Chip Kelly, Cam Cameron  
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789 clicks; posted to Sports » on 19 Jan 2013 at 2:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-19 01:40:27 PM
Steve Keim isn't old, but Bruce Arians is...

/I wanted Ray Horton to be promoted
//enjoy the new defense Browns, once the players get it they will rock opponents
 
2013-01-19 01:55:23 PM
Jim Caldwell nearly went undefeated as a rookie coach in Indianapolis three years ago and he's one win away from returning to the Super Bowl as an assistant with Baltimore.

manningface.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-01-19 02:12:50 PM
But the Chargers gave a courtesy interview to Lovey Smith, so that's... well, still useless.
 
2013-01-19 02:30:44 PM
Stop worrying about the diversity at the very top. Worry about it at the next level down. The fact that they can only name 3 worthy non-white assistant coaches is the problem, not that none of them were hired.

And worthy is pretty debatable on all three.
 
2013-01-19 02:37:00 PM
The rule does need to be tweaked a bit. If a guy got fired as head coach somewhere, and you have a HC opening and know you want him, why interview other people (Andy Reid/KC)? I understand its intent, but it needs refined.
 
2013-01-19 02:49:30 PM
Maybe if they knew how to coach a bit better they'd have jobs? Leslie Frazier is doing well in Minnesota but Lovie Smith doesn't understand how to run an offense. There isn't an owner out there (even if they are old white guys) that wouldn't take a red hot up and coming black coach over a white one if they didn't think that guy would turn their team into a wrecking ball. It's almost becoming affirmative action absurd.
 
2013-01-19 02:53:37 PM
It's almost like they're picking the most qualified applicants available, rather than trying to fulfill some racial quota...
 
2013-01-19 03:04:42 PM
Let's see:
Cardinals- Arians, a offensive coordinator that has won 2 Super Bowls with the Steelers and was the interim coach for a team that was +9 wins this season and made the playoffs.
Chiefs- Reid, former head coach that took his team to 5 conference Championship games in 14 years. Even if you think he can't win for the big one, KC and many other cities would kill for that.
Eagles- Kelly, considered by quite a few to be one of the best and innovative offense minds in college football
Bills- Marrone, hired after a successful stint at Syracuse (local school = more attendance?)
Browns- Chudzinski, offensive coordinator that helped Cam Newton and ties to the Browns organization, which it seems the new owner wanted
Chargers- McCoy, offensive coordinator that shows malleability: able to make playoffs with the typical offense led by Peyton or the non-traditional offense led by Tebow
Bears- Trestman, hired after CFL success
Jaguars- Bradley, defensive coordinator of Seattle, seen by many of having an elite defense this year

Most of those seem pretty qualified (not sure about Marrone or Trestman, don't think Chudzinski is). I don't think the owners thought they were hiring them over minority candidates because they are racist, but because these individuals give my team the best chance to win.
 
2013-01-19 03:05:39 PM

Fade2black: Maybe if they knew how to coach a bit better they'd have jobs? Leslie Frazier is doing well in Minnesota but Lovie Smith doesn't understand how to run an offense. There isn't an owner out there (even if they are old white guys) that wouldn't take a red hot up and coming black coach over a white one if they didn't think that guy would turn their team into a wrecking ball. It's almost becoming affirmative action absurd.


A list Wiki of minority head coaches in the last decade:

 s9.postimage.org

With the sole exception of Mike Tomlin, that's not exactly blistering. And the candidate pool outside of that isn't exactly huge. Currently, it seems like there are far more minority broadcasters that coaching candidates. I don't think you can realistically argue that the NFL is racially biased in this: they're more than happy to hire minority players, they're more than happy to hire minority broadcasters; if minority coaches were winning, they would hire them, too.

/ now minority  owners,on the other hand...
 
2013-01-19 03:06:01 PM
Black NFL head coaches in 2012:

Marvin Lewis, 10-6
Lovie Smith, 10-6
Romeo Crennel, 2-14
Mike Tomlin, 8-8
Raheem Morris, 7-9
Leslie Frazier, 10-6
Ron Rivera, 7-9

Which adds up to a respectable -- but still losing -- 54-58.

If you drop Romeo Crennel, they have a good record, but since Crennel is an obvious diversity hire, we need to take him into account when discussing whether the NFL needs more diversity.
 
2013-01-19 03:09:02 PM
I'd like to have a 3-way with his granddaughters Rooney and Kate.
 
2013-01-19 03:09:17 PM

It's Me Bender: Black NFL head coaches in 2012:

Marvin Lewis, 10-6
Lovie Smith, 10-6
Romeo Crennel, 2-14
Mike Tomlin, 8-8
Raheem Morris, 7-9
Leslie Frazier, 10-6
Ron Rivera, 7-9

Which adds up to a respectable -- but still losing -- 54-58.

If you drop Romeo Crennel, they have a good record, but since Crennel is an obvious diversity hire, we need to take him into account when discussing whether the NFL needs more diversity.


Two things:
1) Morris is no longer the coach of the Bucs, white guy Schiano is
2) I don't think Crennel is an obvious minority hire. He is of the Wade Phillips/Norv Turner mold. Excellent coordinator, not so good head coach
 
2013-01-19 03:16:27 PM

iron_city_ap: The rule does need to be tweaked a bit. If a guy got fired as head coach somewhere, and you have a HC opening and know you want him, why interview other people (Andy Reid/KC)? I understand its intent, but it needs refined.


Two issues with the Rule:

1) A team should not be penalized if they have a head coach/GM target already in mind. If they only interview one person, they should not be subject to the Rooney Rule. See: 2003 Detroit Lions when they signed Mariucci

2) Should apply it to coordinator positions instead, where there IS a significant lack of minority coaches, leading to a similar lack of capable head coaches. The problem starts at the base, not at the top.
 
2013-01-19 03:26:08 PM

Droog8912: 2) Should apply it to coordinator positions instead, where there IS a significant lack of minority coaches, leading to a similar lack of capable head coaches. The problem starts at the base, not at the top.


So much this. The Rooney rule is window dressing, not an actual attempt to correct a more or less fundamentally uncorrectable situation.
 
2013-01-19 03:38:15 PM
Hopefully the NFL has given up on the idea of trying to be a slave to fashion.

/am just calling a spade a spade.
 
2013-01-19 03:43:56 PM
l.wigflip.com
 
2013-01-19 03:50:58 PM

whistleridge: Droog8912: 2) Should apply it to coordinator positions instead, where there IS a significant lack of minority coaches, leading to a similar lack of capable head coaches. The problem starts at the base, not at the top.

So much this. The Rooney rule is window dressing, not an actual attempt to correct a more or less fundamentally uncorrectable situation.


It is window dressing, but has been a great start. The NFL is miles ahead of the NCAA in this area and like people mentioned, it would be great if they applied it to assistant coaches. The hard part though for minority coaches in the NFL/NCAA is really you may only get one shot (particularly in NCAA). There are some exceptions (e.g. Romeo) but for the most part, white head coaches may get another shot while black head coaches won't (especially not right away). To NFL's credit though, they are do atleast get the ball rolling and are hopefully working on the tweaks.
 
2013-01-19 03:52:58 PM
I don't think there's enough diversity in the locker room. Every team should be required to draft one Asian player.
 
2013-01-19 03:54:55 PM
Now, wait a minute, subby. The Bills' new head coach is a much younger white guy than his predecessor.
 
2013-01-19 04:00:48 PM

It's Me Bender: Black NFL head coaches in 2012:

Marvin Lewis, 10-6
Lovie Smith, 10-6
Romeo Crennel, 2-14
Mike Tomlin, 8-8
Raheem Morris, 7-9
Leslie Frazier, 10-6
Ron Rivera, 7-9

Which adds up to a respectable -- but still losing -- 54-58.

If you drop Romeo Crennel, they have a good record, but since Crennel is an obvious diversity hire, we need to take him into account when discussing whether the NFL needs more diversity.


Ron Rivera's black?

But honestly, when the hiring of minorities was spontaneous you ended up with Tom Flores (winning two Super Bowls) and Art Shell (who before his second go 'round in Oakland was 54-38) and Tony Dungy (no schlub to anyone). Now that everyone's forced to speak to someone all they'll do is waste the time of a qualified assistant whom they had no interest in the first place. A well-intentioned idea that just went one tweak too far.
 
2013-01-19 04:09:05 PM
As an old white guy I am offended that I was not offered any of these jobs.
 
2013-01-19 04:12:12 PM
I don't see people in terms of skin color. This must be a liberal thing. You are not allowed to hire white people without first interviewing black people?
I'm sure that's exactly what MLK had in mind...
 
2013-01-19 04:20:04 PM
ts4.mm.bing.net
 
2013-01-19 04:26:19 PM

Droog8912: 2) Should apply it to coordinator positions instead, where there IS a significant lack of minority coaches, leading to a similar lack of capable head coaches. The problem starts at the base, not at the top.


Agreed.

In general though, I'm not sure why any permutation of such "Rooney Rule" would only apply to ONE position w/in an organization. Either apply it to the entire organization from the front office positions on down, or not at all.
 
2013-01-19 04:29:16 PM
Meanwhile my White Privilege check from the government keeps getting smaller and smaller.
 
2013-01-19 04:34:08 PM
Some of these guys deserved their shot. Arians certainly did enough this year to secure a chance as a head coach, Chip Kelly has done a lot with his offense and I can see a team taking a chance on him (even though I think it's going to be all-but-impossible for his offense to succeed in the NFL, especially without him able to obtain a recruiting advantage, unless he gets his guys to throw the ball more... I guess it was pretty tough at Oregon, considering the last guy there without a limp noodle for an arm was Dennis Dixon).

But Marrone? Chud? McCoy? A CFL coach who hasn't been in the league for years? Bradley, a guy who was flat-out embarrassed in the biggest game of the year by a horrendous defensive gameplan and who single-handedly cost the Seahawks the game? THIS was the best the NFL had to offer? Bull f*cking sh*t.

The more troubling thing is that guys like Marty Mornhinweg just get to roll around the coordinator carousel, when more-deserving coaches (minority or otherwise) don't get their shot. THAT is what people should care about. It's a lot like the world of CEOs, where one can be an utter failure at what he or she does yet somehow get kicked down the road to the next job and the next golden parachute.

It's also pretty sad that Andy Reid can basically be handed a choice of jobs if he wasn't happy with the Chiefs, yet Lovie Smith is not a head coach.
 
2013-01-19 04:35:32 PM
The rule is just silly. There will be far more white head coaches because the pool of qualified candidates is contains far more white men. And I do question whether the rule has had any real impact. How many teams have an interview with someone that they have no intention to hire and go "wow that was so great I am hiring him". I would guess the expansion in the past decade is more related to a growth in qualified candidates as more opportunities emerged in the '90s than the Rooney Rule. Hell, the only minority coach to win the Superbowl since 2003, Tomlin, was not subject to the Rooney Rule as there was a minority candidate interviewed before him.

They need to incentivize minorities to move into lower coaching positions and teams to hire them there (and work with the NCAA to get them to do the same thing). How, I am not sure, but the Rooney Rule seems a silly way to do it.
 
2013-01-19 04:40:19 PM
9% of the coaches in the NFL are black and 13% of the US is black. 67% patient of the players in the NFL are black. 80% of the NBA is black. people are loathe to entertain the idea that one race might be smarter than the other/making better decisions than another, but everyone is OK with blacks being better athletes and it's expected. how often do you think a coach is waffling between drafting two players and says 'fark it, let's get the black guy'.
 
2013-01-19 04:41:30 PM

puffy999:
It's also pretty sad that Andy Reid can basically be handed a choice of jobs if he wasn't happy with the Chiefs, yet Lovie Smith is not a head coach.


I think Lovie deserves a 2nd chance somewhere. Though him taking a year off may not be the worst idea in the world either. So I will wait a couple years before I get too upset.
 
2013-01-19 04:46:50 PM

dywed88: The rule is just silly. There will be far more white head coaches because the pool of qualified candidates is contains far more white men. And I do question whether the rule has had any real impact. How many teams have an interview with someone that they have no intention to hire and go "wow that was so great I am hiring him". I would guess the expansion in the past decade is more related to a growth in qualified candidates as more opportunities emerged in the '90s than the Rooney Rule. Hell, the only minority coach to win the Superbowl since 2003, Tomlin, was not subject to the Rooney Rule as there was a minority candidate interviewed before him.

They need to incentivize minorities to move into lower coaching positions and teams to hire them there (and work with the NCAA to get them to do the same thing). How, I am not sure, but the Rooney Rule seems a silly way to do it.


you get that level-headed logic out of here. this is a place for polemical peoples.
 
2013-01-19 04:48:30 PM

Ken VeryBigLiar:

But honestly, when the hiring of minorities was spontaneous you ended up with Tom Flores (winning two Super Bowls) and Art Shell (who before his second go 'round in Oakland was 54-38) and Tony Dungy (no schlub to anyone). Now that everyone's forced to speak to someone all they'll do is waste the time of a qualified assistant whom they had no interest in the first place. A well-intentioned idea that just went one tweak too far.


That's 3 minority coaches in about 30 years. Think about that for a second.
Flores won two Super Bowls in the early 1980's. The minority Head Coach hired was Art Shell in 1989. Three years later Dennis Green, three years after Green, Ray Rhodes 1995. Dungy in 1996. Then we had to wait another 5 years for Herm Edwards.

So 5 minority head coaches, since the first one won a Super Bowl, 20 years before.

The advantage of the Rooney Rule is twofold.
1) It has GM's/Owners thinking about minority coaches. It puts the minority coaches on the radar.
2) It publicizes the minority candidate, so while he might not get one job, his name was in the papers so he's considered a serious HC prospect.

Will there be bad hires? Yeah, but then again, the NFL has hired many terrible White Coaches as well.
 
2013-01-19 04:50:59 PM

It's Me Bender: Black NFL head coaches in 2012:

Marvin Lewis, 10-6
Lovie Smith, 10-6
Romeo Crennel, 2-14
Mike Tomlin, 8-8
Raheem Morris, 7-9
Leslie Frazier, 10-6
Ron Rivera, 7-9


That's seven head coaches of 32 teams, which is roughly 22%. The black population of the US is not quite 13%. They are over-represented. Of course you can look at the makeup of the NFL, which raises a different issue. 67% of the league is black, 31% is white, with the remainder being made up of people named Zendejas. Wide receivers are the least demographically diverse, with 90% of all wide-outs being black. I propose we institute the Don Beebe rule, where a team must draft at least one white wide receiver...or these roles, all of them, could be filled by the people they believe will do the job best, regardless of color.

//Just a dream
 
2013-01-19 04:55:37 PM

dywed88: They need to incentivize minorities to move into lower coaching positions and teams to hire them there (and work with the NCAA to get them to do the same thing). How, I am not sure, but the Rooney Rule seems a silly way to do it.


Personally, I think a more holistic "let's try and keep former players employed and healthy post-football career" approach instead of a singular "let's hire more black coaches" would do a world of good. For every Ray Lewis and Tony Gonzalez that could easily make more money in television and media when they retire, you have hundreds of fringe players exiting the league. If there was some outreach to get more of them into even low-level scouting and player development positions, chances for growth will naturally happen. If said fringe player has a marketing, business, or finance degree? There's got to be SEVERAL steady paycheck-in-an-air-condtioned office jobs that every NFL team has. Doing so will kill two birds with one stone; that lays the foundation to also eventually promote more racial diversity in front office positions, and also helps take care of the perception that your average NFL players is left to live a miserable, concussed existence with no options after retirement.
 
2013-01-19 05:01:10 PM

Killer Cars: and also helps take care of the perception that your average NFL players is left


And, maybe I can hire a former NFL player to be my editor. WTF is that horsecock.
 
2013-01-19 05:07:54 PM

Killer Cars: dywed88: They need to incentivize minorities to move into lower coaching positions and teams to hire them there (and work with the NCAA to get them to do the same thing). How, I am not sure, but the Rooney Rule seems a silly way to do it.

Personally, I think a more holistic "let's try and keep former players employed and healthy post-football career" approach instead of a singular "let's hire more black coaches" would do a world of good. For every Ray Lewis and Tony Gonzalez that could easily make more money in television and media when they retire, you have hundreds of fringe players exiting the league. If there was some outreach to get more of them into even low-level scouting and player development positions, chances for growth will naturally happen. If said fringe player has a marketing, business, or finance degree? There's got to be SEVERAL steady paycheck-in-an-air-condtioned office jobs that every NFL team has. Doing so will kill two birds with one stone; that lays the foundation to also eventually promote more racial diversity in front office positions, and also helps take care of the perception that your average NFL players is left to live a miserable, concussed existence with no options after retirement.


Good idea, but football players are not the brightest (by reputation, and by science as they keep banging thier heads against each other).

There are reasons fewer successful players coach football than other sports.
 
2013-01-19 05:15:40 PM
The NFL is a win at all costs business. An owner/GM would hire a transgendered, black nazi with a habit of fellating newborn goats if it meant 12 wins a year.

"Deys mus beez black" is just damn stupid.
 
2013-01-19 05:21:43 PM
But an African American coach did win a BCS bowl game for the first time, and he's happy to stay where he is.

a57.foxnews.com
 
2013-01-19 05:58:07 PM

French Rage: But an African American coach did win a BCS bowl game for the first time, and he's happy to stay where he is.

[a57.foxnews.com image 531x371]


I was quite impressed by him. Granted, I don't follow Stanford much, but I figured they had to take a major step back after losing Harbaugh and then Luck. The PAC-12 wasn't very strong this year, but nevertheless Stanford has done remarkably well.

Really impressive program.
 
2013-01-19 06:06:08 PM

French Rage: But an African American coach did win a BCS bowl game for the first time, and he's happy to stay where he is.

[a57.foxnews.com image 531x371]


His offensive coordinator decided to upgrade though
 
2013-01-19 06:19:17 PM

whistleridge: Droog8912: 2) Should apply it to coordinator positions instead, where there IS a significant lack of minority coaches, leading to a similar lack of capable head coaches. The problem starts at the base, not at the top.

So much this. The Rooney rule is window dressing, not an actual attempt to correct a more or less fundamentally uncorrectable situation.


Maybe the black candidates should offer to accept 3/5ths the salary of the white guys...
 
2013-01-19 06:24:57 PM
At 46, Gus Bradley hardly qualifies as "old".
 
2013-01-19 07:22:24 PM
Anytime you start your article off bemoaning that Jim Farking Caldwell didn't get a job interview, you lose your credibility.

He was proof positive that as goes Peyton, so goes the Colts.  The only time he really had to do any "coaching" was when Peyton was out, and his solutions were Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky, and no real actual coaching changes to play to any of the remaining players strengths.  The fact that he was NEVER been successful, in any head coaching position he's been in, is reason enough not to give him an interview.
 
2013-01-19 07:24:40 PM
Chip Kelly is not old.
 
2013-01-19 07:44:20 PM
I halfway believe that the Chiefs hired Herm Edwards a few years back just to get the diversity monkey off their back. Good lord, he was awful.
 
2013-01-19 07:45:08 PM

Uncle Pooky: I'd like to have a 3-way with his granddaughters Rooney and Kate.


Ummmmm........ It's not Rooney Rooney or Kate Rooney. The rule is named after Art Rooney, the founder and longtime owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

/maybe you're thinking of the Mara family?
//They own half the NY Giants
 
2013-01-19 07:45:46 PM

TheManofPA: whistleridge: Droog8912: 2) Should apply it to coordinator positions instead, where there IS a significant lack of minority coaches, leading to a similar lack of capable head coaches. The problem starts at the base, not at the top.

So much this. The Rooney rule is window dressing, not an actual attempt to correct a more or less fundamentally uncorrectable situation.

It is window dressing, but has been a great start. The NFL is miles ahead of the NCAA in this area and like people mentioned, it would be great if they applied it to assistant coaches. The hard part though for minority coaches in the NFL/NCAA is really you may only get one shot (particularly in NCAA). There are some exceptions (e.g. Romeo) but for the most part, white head coaches may get another shot while black head coaches won't (especially not right away). To NFL's credit though, they are do atleast get the ball rolling and are hopefully working on the tweaks.


The fundamental problem is the "good ol' boy" network. It's why retreads like Wade Phillips and Norv Turner got third jobs. And it's worse in major college football; only one black head coach ever got a second job after being fired - and that was Ty Willingham, the only coach in ND history to not get to play out his full 5-year contract.

The bottom line is, there needs to be a better representation of minorities - especially blacks - in the head and offensive position coaches. The Rooney Rule needs to be supplemented by some sort of program that helps promising minorities find positions on college and pro teams.
 
2013-01-19 07:50:35 PM
This year's incoming coaching class is henceforth nicknamed the Arians Nations.
 
2013-01-19 07:57:43 PM

Snuffybud: Uncle Pooky: I'd like to have a 3-way with his granddaughters Rooney and Kate.

Ummmmm........ It's not Rooney Rooney or Kate Rooney. The rule is named after Art Rooney, the founder and longtime owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

/maybe you're thinking of the Mara family?
//They own half the NY Giants


They're Rooney family too. But great-granddaughters. Either way, they're doing ok with our without acting careers.
 
2013-01-19 08:30:48 PM

dywed88: The rule is just silly. There will be far more white head coaches because the pool of qualified candidates is contains far more white men. And I do question whether the rule has had any real impact. How many teams have an interview with someone that they have no intention to hire and go "wow that was so great I am hiring him". I would guess the expansion in the past decade is more related to a growth in qualified candidates as more opportunities emerged in the '90s than the Rooney Rule. Hell, the only minority coach to win the Superbowl since 2003, Tomlin, was not subject to the Rooney Rule as there was a minority candidate interviewed before him.

They need to incentivize minorities to move into lower coaching positions and teams to hire them there (and work with the NCAA to get them to do the same thing). How, I am not sure, but the Rooney Rule seems a silly way to do it.


The rest is fine, but the bolded part is incorrect. They interviewed Ron Rivera, Russ Grimm, Ken Wisenhunt, Chan Gailey, and Tomlin. Tomlin was the Rooney Rule candidate at first.
 
2013-01-19 08:44:34 PM

eazye1334: dywed88: The rule is just silly. There will be far more white head coaches because the pool of qualified candidates is contains far more white men. And I do question whether the rule has had any real impact. How many teams have an interview with someone that they have no intention to hire and go "wow that was so great I am hiring him". I would guess the expansion in the past decade is more related to a growth in qualified candidates as more opportunities emerged in the '90s than the Rooney Rule. Hell, the only minority coach to win the Superbowl since 2003, Tomlin, was not subject to the Rooney Rule as there was a minority candidate interviewed before him.

They need to incentivize minorities to move into lower coaching positions and teams to hire them there (and work with the NCAA to get them to do the same thing). How, I am not sure, but the Rooney Rule seems a silly way to do it.

The rest is fine, but the bolded part is incorrect. They interviewed Ron Rivera, Russ Grimm, Ken Wisenhunt, Chan Gailey, and Tomlin. Tomlin was the Rooney Rule candidate at first.


Well that and Tony Dungy won the SB in 2007. Also Ron Rivera is Mexican and Puerto Rican, so he was a Rooney candidate as well.
 
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