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(NYPost)   Hero Marine, who lost one leg from a roadside bomb in Iraq survives an 800-foot fall down Mt Washington with 12 other climbers who were caught in the avalanche. All were there to raise funds and awareness for the Special Operations Warrior Foundation   (nypost.com) divider line 53
    More: Scary, Special Operations Warrior Foundation, Iraq, improvised explosive devices  
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2292 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2013 at 12:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-19 12:48:59 PM
Death doesn't like to feel cheated
 
2013-01-19 12:49:16 PM
So they fell trying to raise money for people who got hurt killing other people illegally at the whim of the us government?

Lol karma.
 
2013-01-19 12:49:34 PM
Hey, you know what would be a great idea. Let's climb a mountain in the winter time. What could possibly go wrong?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-19 12:57:31 PM
The AMC guide book to the White Mountains is written by humans rather than lawyers. It doesn't have a warning on every page saying you risk dying if you step out of doors. There are two or three exceptions where the "you'll get tired" or "ledge may be difficult" cautions escalate to real warnings. One of them is Huntington Ravine, the location of this avalanche. It is considered the most difficult regular trail in the mountains when ascending on a nice, dry summer day. I have seen pictures and thought to myself, "there is no trail on those rocks."  Not even tempting to me. (I have climbed by saner routes, on nice, dry summer days.)
 
2013-01-19 12:57:41 PM

zorlack7: So they fell trying to raise money for people who got hurt killing other people illegally at the whim of the us government?

Lol karma.


If it's at the whim of the government, it isn't illegal.

Unless, of course, you know some other law they are bound by.
 
2013-01-19 12:59:49 PM
That's what you get for trying to climb Huntington's ravine in the winter! The summer month's are bad enough, but put ice into the equation? No farking thank you!
 
2013-01-19 01:01:31 PM

BAMFinator: Hey, you know what would be a great idea. Let's climb a mountain in the winter time. What could possibly go wrong?


Lots, but you can lessen things if youre prepared an don't do stupid stuff. You get rewarded with views like this.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-19 01:10:54 PM
Invading and occupying another country doesn't make you a hero.
 
2013-01-19 01:11:28 PM

zorlack7: So they fell trying to raise money for people who got hurt killing other people illegally at the whim of the us government?

Lol karma.


Get off my lawn!
 
2013-01-19 01:12:15 PM
I bet he would win a butt-kicking contest too
 
2013-01-19 01:19:06 PM
Technical, but not death-defying.
Link

I'm gonna say the AVALANCHE was the bigger problem.
 
2013-01-19 01:21:38 PM
Is his nickname 'Lucky'?
 
2013-01-19 01:22:58 PM
A haggis has the left leg shorter than the right, so it can go fast round its mountain anticlockwise.

If it tries to go clockwise, it falls over and rolls down the mountain.

/ Wait, what?
 
2013-01-19 01:26:46 PM
fark with the Mountain and the Mountain gon' fark with you.
 
2013-01-19 01:32:36 PM
Mt Washington is a killer. Dont go there in winter.
 
2013-01-19 01:33:49 PM

Hack Patooey: BAMFinator: Hey, you know what would be a great idea. Let's climb a mountain in the winter time. What could possibly go wrong?

Lots, but you can lessen things if youre prepared an don't do stupid stuff. You get rewarded with views like this.

[i.imgur.com image 640x480]


I've climbed  the Wash. Could not do it in winter.

The Presidential Range is awesome.

/sister is over in the Squam Range ... hike the area
 
2013-01-19 01:52:44 PM
Maybe he did not have the salmon mousse...
 
2013-01-19 01:54:30 PM

It's Me Bender: Invading and occupying another country doesn't make you a hero.


You're absolutely right on a large scale and you are depressingly wrong on a personal level.

Even when the larger scale of events is morally problematic that in no way precludes the possibility that the individuals in the fray have acted heroically. I went to war and spent my time there trying to do what was right for everyone involved. I risked my life on several occasions to save the lives of Iraqis or Afghanis, and from my perspective as someone who speaks the language and has spent years there is that for every example of a mistake that cost unnecessary lives there were 5 others where our soldiers put their own lives and well being at risk to prevent bloodshed and ignorance and suffering. But hey, that's merely anecdotal.

In regards to the guy mentioned in the article I would say that a man who loses a leg in an explosion and then dedicates his self to rehabilitation, comes to grips with the new limits his injury gives him and then decides to ignore those limits to climb a mountain and raise money for other wounded veterans is a man with more than a smattering of heroism. Somehow I feel like the most heroic thing you've done lately is to log into fark and get a pathetic little adrenaline rush from posting an unpopular opinion. For your own sake perhaps you should work on your empathy a little bit and work on forgiving others for their misconceptions. Maybe climb a mountain, get a little perspective on life.
 
2013-01-19 01:59:08 PM
So, you're saying the fundraiser... went SOWF?
 
2013-01-19 02:01:21 PM

ArcadianRefugee: zorlack7: So they fell trying to raise money for people who got hurt killing other people illegally at the whim of the us government?

Lol karma.

If it's at the whim of the government, it isn't illegal.

Unless, of course, you know some other law they are bound by.


I feel like you are implying that special ops teams always operate within the bounds of the UN and law. I mean, it's not like we went against the UN in invading Iraq, or anything, and everything special ops teams do is made readily available to the public, so yeah, I am sure that there is nothing shady going on there at all.
 
2013-01-19 02:05:46 PM

chairborne: It's Me Bender: Invading and occupying another country doesn't make you a hero.

You're absolutely right on a large scale and you are depressingly wrong on a personal level.

Even when the larger scale of events is morally problematic that in no way precludes the possibility that the individuals in the fray have acted heroically. I went to war and spent my time there trying to do what was right for everyone involved. I risked my life on several occasions to save the lives of Iraqis or Afghanis, and from my perspective as someone who speaks the language and has spent years there is that for every example of a mistake that cost unnecessary lives there were 5 others where our soldiers put their own lives and well being at risk to prevent bloodshed and ignorance and suffering. But hey, that's merely anecdotal.

In regards to the guy mentioned in the article I would say that a man who loses a leg in an explosion and then dedicates his self to rehabilitation, comes to grips with the new limits his injury gives him and then decides to ignore those limits to climb a mountain and raise money for other wounded veterans is a man with more than a smattering of heroism. Somehow I feel like the most heroic thing you've done lately is to log into fark and get a pathetic little adrenaline rush from posting an unpopular opinion. For your own sake perhaps you should work on your empathy a little bit and work on forgiving others for their misconceptions. Maybe climb a mountain, get a little perspective on life.


Are you saying it was wrong to invade them? Did you know that when you went or did you decide that later on?
 
2013-01-19 02:26:28 PM
More from the paper in North Conway.

Throughout this time the temperature on the summit never made it above negative 10 degrees, according to the Mount Washington Observatory. The winds were blowing around 50 mph. "It was getting cold," Lentini said.

I love understatement.
 
2013-01-19 02:28:38 PM

zorlack7: So they fell trying to raise money for people who got hurt killing other people illegally at the whim of the us government?

Lol karma.


ohboyherewego.jpg
 
2013-01-19 02:30:31 PM
Given the amount of money the USA spends on their military, why the fark would they need to fundraise for those troops on top of every other tax dollar and private sector investment they make? Jebus Krist. I would refuse. no, you dumb bastards, you cost millions of dollars to train and send on your fool mission for some billionaire oil company. The government chose to suck that money out of communities that need hospitals and schools. Frankly, that money can go to your leg, too.

/so bitter
 
2013-01-19 02:44:28 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Technical, but not death-defying.
Link

I'm gonna say the AVALANCHE was the bigger problem.


Thanks for the link, it brought back memories of hiking in the White Mountains. I stuck to less challenging trails.
 
2013-01-19 02:52:03 PM

chairborne: Even when the larger scale of events is morally problematic that in no way precludes the possibility that the individuals in the fray have acted heroically.


Sure. Would you agree that some Nazis acted heroically? There might even have been heroes among the Einsatzgruppen...

Regardless, the article doesn't give any evidence for the claim that he's a hero besides:
- He was an American soldier.
- He was badly maimed in combat.

Now if he'd jumped on a grenade to save his platoon, yeah, that's heroic.
 
2013-01-19 02:52:49 PM

powerful katrinka: Zeb Hesselgresser: Technical, but not death-defying.
Link

I'm gonna say the AVALANCHE was the bigger problem.

Thanks for the link, it brought back memories of hiking in the White Mountains. I stuck to less challenging trails.


yep, nice vid., made me think about a walk in the woods tomorrow morning
 
2013-01-19 02:54:22 PM

It's Me Bender: chairborne: Even when the larger scale of events is morally problematic that in no way precludes the possibility that the individuals in the fray have acted heroically.

Sure. Would you agree that some Nazis acted heroically? There might even have been heroes among the Einsatzgruppen...

Regardless, the article doesn't give any evidence for the claim that he's a hero besides:
- He was an American soldier.
- He was badly maimed in combat.

Now if he'd jumped on a grenade to save his platoon, yeah, that's heroic.


Did you miss the bit where he was climbing a mountain with one leg? Totally unheroic right?
 
2013-01-19 03:07:22 PM
Came for the butthurt about someone else being called a hero and peons looking at their useless lives wondering why they cannot be as cool as this Marine.

Did not leave disappointed.
 
2013-01-19 03:07:28 PM
I'm definitely trying to understand the reasoning behind following 3 parties up an avalanche chute, late in the day. As far as I can tell, they threw out good mountain sense in the name of fund raising.
 
2013-01-19 03:09:29 PM

Clash City Farker:

Are you saying it was wrong to invade them? Did you know that when you went or did you decide that later on?


I came to realize eventually like most reasonable people that the reasons we went to Iraq were faulty. That had nothing to do however with the good I saw in toppling a really vicious autocratic regime, I spoke to victims of torture at the hands of Uday, saw the pleasure palaces the Husseins built next to cities with no power or sewer infrastructure. I saw our military leaders ordered to go by our duly elected civilians politicians who worked to make lives better for Iraqis. Iraq is better off now than it was. Even at the height of peoples criticism of the war the improvements were obvious and the amount of deaths incurred nothing like would have happened in a civil war with three major factions and multitudinous outside actors all with conflicting interests.

So yeah, the reasons we went were mostly bullshiat, but that had little to do with what American soldiers actually did on the ground. You hear about every negative splashy incident on the news. Building schools and improving infrastructure and mediating between tribal and religious factions doesn't make the news. So yeah, the edgy folks who like to cast aspersions on soldiers because of the misjudgments of politicians don't usually have any better grasp of the real world situation than all the jingoistic chicken hawks out there. You're all just spouting talking points. I've got Iraqi friends who have mixed emotions about a lot of what happened in the last ten years, but I don't know any who think they'd be better off under Saddam or under religious theocracy or in a country divided in three. Then again, all of this is just my opinion. It just happens to be the case that having spent a couple of years in Iraq, being fluent in the language, and being a skeptical critical thinker I take issue at people on either side of the argument who want to break the issue into stupid sound bites for no reason other than scoring imaginary points in an argument that has little to no bearing on their lives.

I don't call soldiers heroes by default, but this article is about a guy overcoming more than most people will ever face and deciding, "fark it, I'm gonna go climb a farking mountain."

So all of you sour sad little people with skins thin enough to be affected by someone daring to use the word "hero" need to get a little perspective on life. This guy probably fits the bill, and it has nothing to do with what he used to do for a living, but everything to do with the fact that he had every reason in the world to wallow in despair and chose not to.
 
2013-01-19 03:10:43 PM
There were 136 deaths on Mt. Washington between 1848 and 2004, an average of a bit less than 1 per year.

In recent years the rate has risen. There were 33 deaths in the 15 years from 1990 to 2004, more than 2 per year.
 
2013-01-19 03:15:22 PM
Marine Core!
 
2013-01-19 03:16:59 PM

chairborne: Clash City Farker:

Are you saying it was wrong to invade them? Did you know that when you went or did you decide that later on?

I came to realize eventually like most reasonable people that the reasons we went to Iraq were faulty. That had nothing to do however with the good I saw in toppling a really vicious autocratic regime, I spoke to victims of torture at the hands of Uday, saw the pleasure palaces the Husseins built next to cities with no power or sewer infrastructure. I saw our military leaders ordered to go by our duly elected civilians politicians who worked to make lives better for Iraqis. Iraq is better off now than it was. Even at the height of peoples criticism of the war the improvements were obvious and the amount of deaths incurred nothing like would have happened in a civil war with three major factions and multitudinous outside actors all with conflicting interests.



I feel bad for the people of North Korea. I believe they are truly suffering. Its too bad the world wont liberate them they way they liberated Iraq.
 
2013-01-19 03:20:25 PM
It's so very wrong of me to think of this :)
 
2013-01-19 03:29:57 PM

chairborne: It's Me Bender: Invading and occupying another country doesn't make you a hero.

You're absolutely right on a large scale and you are depressingly wrong on a personal level.

Even when the larger scale of events is morally problematic that in no way precludes the possibility that the individuals in the fray have acted heroically. I went to war and spent my time there trying to do what was right for everyone involved. I risked my life on several occasions to save the lives of Iraqis or Afghanis, and from my perspective as someone who speaks the language and has spent years there is that for every example of a mistake that cost unnecessary lives there were 5 others where our soldiers put their own lives and well being at risk to prevent bloodshed and ignorance and suffering. But hey, that's merely anecdotal.


What did he do that was heroic? Just fighting in combat does not make one heroic. Nor does risking your life necessarily make one a hero. That is part of the job of soldiers to go into harm's way and risk their lives. If that was all it took to be a hero then the number of Congressional Medal of Honor recipients would be in the millions. Calling this guy a hero just because he served in Iraq and just happened to lose his leg to a bomb is an insult to real heroes Audie Murphy and Chesty Puller.
 
2013-01-19 03:31:53 PM

chairborne: Clash City Farker:

Are you saying it was wrong to invade them? Did you know that when you went or did you decide that later on?

I came to realize eventually like most reasonable people that the reasons we went to Iraq were faulty. That had nothing to do however with the good I saw in toppling a really vicious autocratic regime, I spoke to victims of torture at the hands of Uday, saw the pleasure palaces the Husseins built next to cities with no power or sewer infrastructure. I saw our military leaders ordered to go by our duly elected civilians politicians who worked to make lives better for Iraqis. Iraq is better off now than it was. Even at the height of peoples criticism of the war the improvements were obvious and the amount of deaths incurred nothing like would have happened in a civil war with three major factions and multitudinous outside actors all with conflicting interests.

So yeah, the reasons we went were mostly bullshiat, but that had little to do with what American soldiers actually did on the ground. You hear about every negative splashy incident on the news. Building schools and improving infrastructure and mediating between tribal and religious factions doesn't make the news. So yeah, the edgy folks who like to cast aspersions on soldiers because of the misjudgments of politicians don't usually have any better grasp of the real world situation than all the jingoistic chicken hawks out there. You're all just spouting talking points. I've got Iraqi friends who have mixed emotions about a lot of what happened in the last ten years, but I don't know any who think they'd be better off under Saddam or under religious theocracy or in a country divided in three. Then again, all of this is just my opinion. It just happens to be the case that having spent a couple of years in Iraq, being fluent in the language, and being a skeptical critical thinker I take issue at people on either side of the argument who want to break the issue into stupid sound bites ...


The end does not justify the means.
 
2013-01-19 03:45:44 PM

Clash City Farker: I feel bad for the people of North Korea. I believe they are truly suffering. Its too bad the world wont liberate them they way they liberated Iraq.


Sucks for North Korea to be bordering the People's Republic of China.

I have no problem with a policy of armed humanitarian intervention when we can, where we can, when it's in our interests. I just wish politicians would skip the pretense and state as much plainly.
 
2013-01-19 03:53:26 PM

Mock26: chairborne: It's Me Bender: Invading and occupying another country doesn't make you a hero.

You're absolutely right on a large scale and you are depressingly wrong on a personal level.

Even when the larger scale of events is morally problematic that in no way precludes the possibility that the individuals in the fray have acted heroically. I went to war and spent my time there trying to do what was right for everyone involved. I risked my life on several occasions to save the lives of Iraqis or Afghanis, and from my perspective as someone who speaks the language and has spent years there is that for every example of a mistake that cost unnecessary lives there were 5 others where our soldiers put their own lives and well being at risk to prevent bloodshed and ignorance and suffering. But hey, that's merely anecdotal.

What did he do that was heroic? Just fighting in combat does not make one heroic. Nor does risking your life necessarily make one a hero. That is part of the job of soldiers to go into harm's way and risk their lives. If that was all it took to be a hero then the number of Congressional Medal of Honor recipients would be in the millions. Calling this guy a hero just because he served in Iraq and just happened to lose his leg to a bomb is an insult to real heroes Audie Murphy and Chesty Puller.


Don't you love the wooshing sound that the point makes when it speeds past? Read what I wrote again with a focus on basic comprehension skills, you are projecting things on me which I never said.
 
2013-01-19 04:00:00 PM
Now we need to watch this guy because ya know 3rd time is a charm.
 
2013-01-19 04:12:25 PM

Mock26: The end does not justify the means.


Don't get me started on the doctrine of double effect here. When you are talking about something as complicated as a ten year occupation saying something as trite as "the ends don't justify the means" just comes off as juvenile. In the real world very few of us have control over the big things, we can only seek to do the best with the situation we find ourselves in. The typical soldier has about as much to do with the reasons we went to war as you did. The difference is that you have the luxury of sitting back and making abstract pronouncements while that soldier has the choice to do the most good for the most people or go to jail and take themselves out of the equation. Were Iraqis better served if I had gone to leavenworth because Bush was an idiot? Or were the better served by the years I spent doing what i could to guard their humanitarian interests? What were you doing to fulfill your duty to limit the harm our government did? Sign a few petitions did you? In the "end" your opinion "means" approximately nothing. Talk to me about the actions you took.

And again for the slow kids at the back of the class, I don't think this guy was a hero for being in the miltiary. I do think that regardless of what I think he probably joined for reasons that he would frame as moral. That means a little bit, probably in the final analysis more than the opinions of people who talk and don't do. But that's not the heroic bit, there are plenty of lazy cowardly shiatbags in the military, although in my experience they make up a slightly smaller percentage than they do in the general population. I only used the term heroic in regards to his choice to climb that mountain despite his missing leg instead of sitting in a hoverround feeling sorry for his self.

It really doesn't matter whether you think his political views are ill informed, heroism in a way comes down to nothing more than intent. Panicking and falling on a grenade and saving some lives is materially indistinguishable from intentionally falling on a grenade to save lives, but most people would agree that the intent makes a difference. He thinks he's doing the right thing, and we all know he's certainly not doing the easy thing, so why not just unplug your bias and appreciate the guys effort? Is the word hero doing you that much psychic distress that you can't appreciate this guy doing what he thinks is right?

I feel like I had more empathy for the guys I used to shoot at then you all for a guy who does you no harm at all.
 
2013-01-19 04:23:03 PM
My problem is he wasnt heroc for climbing that mountain.He was stupid. I see he is from NY. Just because its a low elevation peak in NH doesnt mean its safe.The mountain kills people in winter on a regular basis. They should have been a little more careful and not gone at all.
 
2013-01-19 04:57:40 PM

It's Me Bender: Invading and occupying another country doesn't make you a hero.


That was fast.
 
2013-01-19 05:50:04 PM

chairborne: Clash City Farker:

Are you saying it was wrong to invade them? Did you know that when you went or did you decide that later on?

I came to realize eventually like most reasonable people that the reasons we went to Iraq were faulty. That had nothing to do however with the good I saw in toppling a really vicious autocratic regime, I spoke to victims of torture at the hands of Uday, saw the pleasure palaces the Husseins built next to cities with no power or sewer infrastructure. I saw our military leaders ordered to go by our duly elected civilians politicians who worked to make lives better for Iraqis. Iraq is better off now than it was.


Actually, quite a lot of Iraqis disagree with your last statement. And that doesn't count the ones that got ethnically cleansed on our watch.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-11-16/ethnic-cleansing-driving-christ i ans-out-of-iraq/2338084
 
2013-01-19 06:18:58 PM
Misleading headline is misleading.

/did not fall 800 vertical feet
//an 800 foot slide down that slope is definitely survivable
///THE AVALANCHE WAS THE PROBLEM
 
2013-01-19 07:18:24 PM

Clash City Farker: My problem is he wasnt heroc for climbing that mountain.He was stupid. I see he is from NY. Just because its a low elevation peak in NH doesnt mean its safe.The mountain kills people in winter on a regular basis. They should have been a little more careful and not gone at all.


I guess combat veterans should never try anything hard or meaningful, lest you call them "stupid". But your foolish attempt to hold onto your argument is heroic.

PunGent: chairborne: Clash City Farker:

Are you saying it was wrong to invade them? Did you know that when you went or did you decide that later on?

I came to realize eventually like most reasonable people that the reasons we went to Iraq were faulty. That had nothing to do however with the good I saw in toppling a really vicious autocratic regime, I spoke to victims of torture at the hands of Uday, saw the pleasure palaces the Husseins built next to cities with no power or sewer infrastructure. I saw our military leaders ordered to go by our duly elected civilians politicians who worked to make lives better for Iraqis. Iraq is better off now than it was.

Actually, quite a lot of Iraqis disagree with your last statement. And that doesn't count the ones that got ethnically cleansed on our watch.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-11-16/ethnic-cleansing-driving-christ i ans-out-of-iraq/2338084


Chairborne had you outgunned and outclassed hours ago. War sucks. Hussein's (Saddam's, not Barrack's) barbarism sucks. And your late to the game pot shots and your understanding of normative ethics suck. Great job posting a link, too.
 
2013-01-19 07:19:19 PM

chairborne: I feel like I had more empathy for the guys I used to shoot at then you all for a guy who does you no harm at all.


I have empathy for the guy. I also have a ton of respect for him and anyone who has ever served in the military. I just do not think that he is a hero just for putting on a uniform.
 
2013-01-19 09:36:25 PM
You're not allowed to post here if you haven't climbed Huntington ravine. End of story. Mad?
 
2013-01-19 09:44:25 PM
The classic ice climb in Huntington ravine is called "Pinnacle Gully" a nasty place even on a good day in the winter and far worse than the summer trail. Being roped up is a must.

The next question is did they ignore Mt. Washington's very own Avalanche forecast? http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org if so then they got what they deserved.
 
2013-01-21 07:22:28 AM

Stinkyy: Clash City Farker: My problem is he wasnt heroc for climbing that mountain.He was stupid. I see he is from NY. Just because its a low elevation peak in NH doesnt mean its safe.The mountain kills people in winter on a regular basis. They should have been a little more careful and not gone at all.

I guess combat veterans should never try anything hard or meaningful, lest you call them "stupid". But your foolish attempt to hold onto your argument is heroic.

PunGent: chairborne: Clash City Farker:

Are you saying it was wrong to invade them? Did you know that when you went or did you decide that later on?

I came to realize eventually like most reasonable people that the reasons we went to Iraq were faulty. That had nothing to do however with the good I saw in toppling a really vicious autocratic regime, I spoke to victims of torture at the hands of Uday, saw the pleasure palaces the Husseins built next to cities with no power or sewer infrastructure. I saw our military leaders ordered to go by our duly elected civilians politicians who worked to make lives better for Iraqis. Iraq is better off now than it was.

Actually, quite a lot of Iraqis disagree with your last statement. And that doesn't count the ones that got ethnically cleansed on our watch.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-11-16/ethnic-cleansing-driving-christ i ans-out-of-iraq/2338084

Chairborne had you outgunned and outclassed hours ago. War sucks. Hussein's (Saddam's, not Barrack's) barbarism sucks. And your late to the game pot shots and your understanding of normative ethics suck. Great job posting a link, too.


There's a time limit on correcting stupidity?

Normative ethics, huh? So, deliberate ethnic cleansing by Saddam is bad, but when they do it to each other under our noses, it's good?

Retard.
 
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