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(A letter to some guy)   "Where's my magic button, the switch I can flip to show men like you what it feels like on the other side of your 'jokes' and 'compliments'?"   (rolereboot.org) divider line 481
    More: Scary, Liam Payne, female politicians, magic, patriarchy  
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22239 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2013 at 8:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-19 05:19:56 AM
21 votes:

Frederick: So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salaries,  undeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?


Fark you. Attractive women are not the only women who deal with farkupitude from guys. I got the same crap this woman got, either of the same type, or worse, the same experience not tempered by a pretty face. If you're female, you're fair game, out there in the world of assholes.

And her husband? Really?

Go EABOD.
2013-01-19 10:04:21 AM
17 votes:
Wow.  Been a Farker for a long time.  Seldom see such near universal mouth-breathing, male douchebaggery so early and often in a thread.  TFA's author was completely reasonable and 90% of the comments from you assclowns is "hurrr get me a sammich durr be glad dudes are even looking at you hurrr she needs to get laid."

So glad I don't have a daughter.
2013-01-19 09:19:27 AM
16 votes:

Frederick: So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salaries,  undeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?


Good looking men get more money and raise through the ranks faster. Good looking women get sidelined into pretty-face positions.

Women have to be average to slightly-above-average looking, thin but not too thin, fashionable without being slutty or dowdy, done up without going too far - women live on a razor's edge that doesn't exist for men. Everything a woman does is open for judgement, in a way that isn't true for men. Go farking talk to some women. Ask them how stressful buying a skirt is - is it fashionable or slutty to have a hemline 2 inches above their knees? What if they're self-conscious about their knees and want to wear a below-the-knees skirt - will people subconsciously regard them as too conservative and pass them over for big projects or management positions?

Talk to women. Check your assumptions, and listen with an open mind. Remember that all the problems they list - obsessing over being taken seriously, obsessing over avoiding or feeling guilty about inviting unwanted attention, obsessing over their appearance - these are all on top of the normal life stresses. Being a woman doesn't let you off the hook from your health, paying the bills, keeping your car in good working order, and all the other annoyances of life.

If you're not interested in doing this then just recognize that you don't have the perspective and knowledge to empathize with being a woman. You should just consider that many attractive women who age feel relief (and guilt over that relief) when they become "invisible" and are no longer subject to all that extra special attention. Some also feel crushed because most of their male friends were just in it to bump bits for a few minutes, and years of companionship and shared experience were apparently for naught.
2013-01-19 09:44:06 AM
14 votes:
God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.
2013-01-19 09:49:50 AM
11 votes:
I wonder how many people in this thread would have the courage to make their comments in person.  I wonder whether they actually conduct themselves in this barbaric way, or if it's just the Internet Misogyny Brigade.

I have  never treated women -or anyone else- as depicted in tfa, but I've certainly had to deal with the effects  of their foolishness.  And, with rare exceptions, if someone is behaving with all the civility of a gutter snipe it is a man doing it.  I really dislike having to prove that those jackasses don't represent my gender, and threads like this do not help.
2013-01-19 09:07:00 AM
11 votes:
To the author:

I'm a dude. I'm a 5'10" 190 lb dude. I still sometimes walk to the other side of the street if someone who looks like bad news is coming toward me. I'd still get a cab rather than stand at a bus stop with someone who gives me the creeps. It's called common sense.

Quit assuming that you're unfairly forced to have some common sense because you're pretty and a girl.

As to the rude comments. Words only have power if you let them. Ignore them.

Keep doing what you're doing - i.e. taking the smart steps to keep your self safe.... but just lose the "poor pretty me" attitude about doing it.
2013-01-19 07:28:35 AM
11 votes:
Don't worry. Some day you'll hit that right age where you become invisible to men. Then it's fun to watch women freak out that they can't get attention anymore.
2013-01-19 09:53:22 AM
10 votes:
I don't know why women keep trying to tell men what it's like, because men are never going to get it. Ever. No matter what a woman says about this, no matter how many analogies she makes, no matter how she says it, men will respond with... pretty much everything in this thread. They will continue to act like untrained dogs around women they want to fark and shiat all over women they deem too old or too ugly to fark.
2013-01-19 09:20:19 AM
10 votes:
I work in construction, and my crew takes some pride in being pleasant to passers-by. We were on a job downtown, and lots of women would walk by on their way to work. Of course we would notice them, and got to the point where we were exchanging "good mornings" with the friendlier ones. Then the electricians arrived, including a punk kid who spent a lot of time harassing women walking by. After that, most of the women crossed the street or took a different route to work.
Jerks who act like the ones the author describes are ruining things for men as well as women.
2013-01-19 09:05:11 AM
10 votes:
Ladies: You can have equality when you stop using your body to get free shiat.

Deal?
2013-01-19 04:37:30 AM
10 votes:
So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salariesundeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?
2013-01-19 09:36:00 AM
8 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu:

I see what you're saying, and agree with it. Again, leads back to the ho doth protest too much. She's not really, she's bragging. See also: hos who make a point of pointing out their BMI when it's on the low end.


We raise our daughters to be doctors, lawyers, and citizens, but then some people treat these women like walking sex toys, and when the young women point this out because they discover how frightening and frustrating it gets, they can't POSSIBLY be serious.
2013-01-19 09:18:02 AM
8 votes:
While I sympathize somewhat, I have a couple of problems with articles like this:

1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men
2. There's a underlying belief that "men" (in general) condone these types of actions
3. The "outrage" seems to be for the express purpose of generating blog hits

There's jerks in life; we encounter them every day. To attribute an given individual's jerky behaviour to any conveniently defined "group" is intellectually dishonest. If I were to put blinders on and conveniently ignore those instances where persons of my gender were jerks to me (and instead focused only on those instances where person of the opposite gender were jerks to me), I could become a social justice crusader.
2013-01-19 10:28:06 AM
7 votes:

Bedstead Polisher: Howie Spankowitz: Wow.  Been a Farker for a long time.  Seldom see such near universal mouth-breathing, male douchebaggery so early and often in a thread.  TFA's author was completely reasonable and 90% of the comments from you assclowns is "hurrr get me a sammich durr be glad dudes are even looking at you hurrr she needs to get laid."

So glad I don't have a daughter.

I read the article expecting to roll my eyes, but found it to be reasonable. The comments in TFA were also reasonable and not too "you go girl!!", then I clicked on these comments and wondered why I come to Fark (Is it always like this? did I miss that?)
Glad to see your comment.

/last time I was "cat-called" was NYE and a guy in his 20s said to me as I walked past "You look very nice tonight." Now that's a compliment!


It used to be referred to as "gentlemanly behavior."  I have never seen a woman react negatively to a nice, appropriate comment offered in a non-threatening manner, without hip thrusts, catcalls, unwanted touching or following.  But the consensus in this thread from my enlightened brethren is that you should just be happy that you are receiving any attention at all, given that, you know, someday your boobs might sag and all.
2013-01-19 10:01:01 AM
7 votes:

WhippingBoy: Why is it that men are never allowed to defend themselves or express their own opinions based on their experiences?


What are you defending? Are you one of the predatory jerks that harass women? If not, stop defending them. It's just like when "good" cops defend their asshole brethren who do bad things. It makes them all look bad.

All the men in here defending the assholes who harass women are making all of us look bad.
2013-01-19 09:59:40 AM
7 votes:
The "just wait 20 years from now when no one will look at you" comments here seem to be made with a fair amount of indignance and hurt feelings. I get the impression that anyone who would say that has been the man catcalling some woman on the street and doesn't like that anyone would view this behavior negatively, and/or has felt pretty burned in the past/present when any of their attentions (regardless of politeness level) have been rebuffed because they weren't attractive enough to the other person.

Just a thought.
2013-01-19 09:50:01 AM
7 votes:

Billy Bathsalt: I work in construction, and my crew takes some pride in being pleasant to passers-by. We were on a job downtown, and lots of women would walk by on their way to work. Of course we would notice them, and got to the point where we were exchanging "good mornings" with the friendlier ones. Then the electricians arrived, including a punk kid who spent a lot of time harassing women walking by. After that, most of the women crossed the street or took a different route to work.
Jerks who act like the ones the author describes are ruining things for men as well as women.


That punk kid would be kicked off my site and would never be allowed back. I do a lot of construction work on college campuses and we are surrounded by young ladies all day. I make it very clear to my guys that they are not to talk to anyone that isn't working in our job even if they are spoken to first. I understand that if an attractive girl walks by the guys are going to look but if it is more than a couple seconds they will be getting a warning or asked to pick up their tools. If I or my bosses get so much as one harassment complaint it could mean that we are not allowed back and that is a potential loss of millions of dollars.
2013-01-19 09:36:41 AM
7 votes:
I would like to ask all the mouth-breathers who got from this article "I'm so pretty guys won't leave me alone" whether they're admitting to not reading the article, or whether they're admitting to being functionally illiterate. It has to be one of those two things.
2013-01-19 09:29:41 AM
7 votes:

WhippingBoy: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: DrPainMD: Don't worry DNWPG. If your real-life personality is anything like your Fark personality, they'll leave you alone as soon as they get to know you.

Yea, because the last guy who groped my ass in a crowded subway car wanted to know what I thought of the dual Higgs discovery, you moron.

Do you think that this doesn't happen to men? When I was younger, I had my ass groped (without my consent) a number of times. I imagine that men who are more attractive then me have experienced this even more.


Groping a woman carries the implicit threat of rape in a way that a woman groping a man doesn't. However uncomfortable you felt being groped, remember that women are taught that it's their fault they got groped, that all men are groping raping monsters and it's the woman's fault if they let them get close.

For you, it was the simple act of violation of your body. For women, it's that AND a reminder that their body's positive assets belong to society.
2013-01-19 09:29:20 AM
7 votes:

WhippingBoy: jimmajim: So the consensus in this thread is that the guys described in TFA did nothing wrong? There's no point in criticizing their behavior, boys will be boys, right? wink wink nudge nudge.

Who said that? Be specific.


No one did -- my point is that there's plenty of criticism of TFA's author (and women in general) in here, but, strangely, no criticism of the phenomenon she's describing.
2013-01-19 09:26:21 AM
7 votes:

omeganuepsilon: That level of paranoia is not normal. That is what she is describing, there's a world of difference between due vigilance and the paranoia of a simpleton. Just maybe, it's a case of the victim gravitating towards them.(AW as people above documented).

That kind of cat-calling is, by and large, a regional thing, the only attainable solution is to move to someplace that activities like that aren't common. I get a kick out of at the bottom of the article it says she loves Chicago. That's an obvious lie if half the populace is like that.

Who needs an app to see what they're doing wrong? It's not that society at large does not think it's wrong, it's that the perpetrators of such behavior DO NOT CARE.

Men's hair gets pointed out well enough, The Donald for a great example, or Nicholas Cage's. So *drumroll* that argument is irrelevant.


Two examples of celebrities.

In the business world, if you're a man, as long as your hair is short and under control, everyone ignores it. It's a check box item. Women's hair gets graded. Men's clothing is the same - it's pass/fail, either the suit is clean, pressed, and fits or it's bad. Women's clothing gets graded for appearance, fashion, and riding the thin line between dowdy and slutty.

If you don't understand this then you're not ready to participate in a discussion about the matter - go read some farking books.
2013-01-19 09:21:38 AM
7 votes:

DrPainMD: Don't worry DNWPG. If your real-life personality is anything like your Fark personality, they'll leave you alone as soon as they get to know you.


Yea, because the last guy who groped my ass in a crowded subway car wanted to know what I thought of the dual Higgs discovery, you moron.
2013-01-19 09:01:20 AM
7 votes:

"and a middle-aged guy"


If it had been a hot young guy it would have been fine.
2013-01-19 09:51:41 AM
6 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.

Yeah.

Women never judge each other on these things.


Being biatchy is not the same thing as being predatory.
2013-01-19 09:36:21 AM
6 votes:

WhippingBoy: 1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men


no, the suggestion is that women have to deal with that shiat every DAY and men might deal with it a couple times a year.
2013-01-19 09:35:00 AM
6 votes:

WhippingBoy: Bored Horde: In the business world, if you're a man, as long as your hair is short and under control, everyone ignores it. It's a check box item. Women's hair gets graded. Men's clothing is the same - it's pass/fail, either the suit is clean, pressed, and fits or it's bad. Women's clothing gets graded for appearance, fashion, and riding the thin line between dowdy and slutty.

Are you sure about this? Do you have anything to back it up instead of your personal impressions or a ranting post from Jezebel?


Yes - this is basic perceptual research into photos of people, established in the 20th century and now a staple item of undergraduate introductory projects because the experiment is completely understood, the results fully analyzed, and it's still repeatable with the same findings.

Men's hair attracts comments like "professional" or "unprofessional", women's hair attracts comments like "fashionable" "stylish" "flirty" "professional" - it's graded on a spectrum. Again, if you've never understood this stuff and have any interest in learning what it's like to live as a woman in the Western world, then go read some books on the matter. You're not going to get a comprehensive education from a Fark thread, you're going to read a few nuggest of perspective among a flowing river of shiat from the internet misogynists.
2013-01-19 09:12:40 AM
6 votes:

Frederick: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: Frederick: So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salaries,  undeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?

Fark you. Attractive women are not the only women who deal with farkupitude from guys. I got the same crap this woman got, either of the same type, or worse, the same experience not tempered by a pretty face. If you're female, you're fair game, out there in the world of assholes.

And her husband? Really?

Go EABOD.

Hmmm.  I read the article as I'm-so-pretty-guys-wont-leave-me-alone and apparently you read the article as all-men-are-rapists-in-waiting.

Fark me & EABOD...?  Thats a little harsh.


So you thought her related instances of sexual harassment only happened because she wanted to prove she's THAT attractive?

And then you launch the "all-men-are-rapists-in-waiting" straw man.

Not harsh enough.
2013-01-19 05:38:09 AM
6 votes:
Don't worry DNWPG. If your real-life personality is anything like your Fark personality, they'll leave you alone as soon as they get to know you.
2013-01-19 12:22:17 PM
5 votes:

WhippingBoy: TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.

That's right. Men have no issues or problems of their own, and should feel ashamed for suggesting that they do. The life of every man is filled with constant wine (I mean "whine" - amirite??) and roses.


Don't be (pretend to) be stupid. No one is saying guys don't have problems. But you have to wonder why a thread about a woman trying to get men to see things from her point of view devolves into an instant wail-fest about the shiat men have to deal with, as if placing it on a scale will somehow erase the point this woman was making about her own experience.
2013-01-19 11:58:16 AM
5 votes:

cabbyman: [slowfacts.files.wordpress.com image 600x367]


You need a companion one showing a crying, battered woman with the caption "Your elected representatives wanted to disarm her rapist. The NRA said no."
2013-01-19 10:41:01 AM
5 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: FEMALE LIFE PLAN:
0-15 force men to give you attention by getting in their faces
15-30 complain about too much attention from men
30-100 force men to give you attention by getting in their faces


^^^^
This, by the way, is what actual misogyny looks like.
2013-01-19 10:40:07 AM
5 votes:
The social convention is that men approach women, and not the other way around. So men deal with rejection, and women deal with unwanted advances. The unintended consequence appears to be that women find themselves victims of men who take the "approach women" part to the extreme. The complaint in the article is one about drunks, bros, teens, drug addicts, etc - all people who have poor judgment. If the tables were turned and women were expected to approach men, the "psycho hose-beast" stories would be norm.

I'd imagine women would feel less threatened than insulted if this country took rape seriously, but there's a particular political party that seems hellbent on making sure that doesn't happen.

/I like your yoga pants.
//But I'm not going to hang out of the side of a car and tell you that.
2013-01-19 09:57:23 AM
5 votes:
If you don't want attention, wear sweatpants without "juicy" printed on the back. Or mom jeans. I have years of experience in looking unattractive.

I wish this were a valid strategy, but creepers gon' creep regardless of clothing. I cannot tell you how many times I have gone out looking like absolute death in sweatpants, sweatshirt, hair in a pony tail, no makeup, visibly ill etc. and have been harassed by dbags, and I can't think of a single female friend who hasn't also experienced this. It's definitely befuddling because common sense would dictate that looking as if you just rolled out of bed with the plague would deter creeps but no, for some reason it doesn't.

/I'm not some great beauty either, I'm a solid 4 on a good day with effort put in
//also, once you pass a certain cup size, no matter how covered up you are, creeps will still take notice
2013-01-19 09:38:11 AM
5 votes:

letrole: Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits.


You can't troll a thread where the most blatantly ignorant opinions are already being expressed in earnest, dude. You can't make a sh*thouse smell worse.
2013-01-19 09:37:46 AM
5 votes:

Oblio13: I've made a list of things Angry Feminists like about men:


Who are "Angry Feminists" other then a strawman you've summoned forth to excuse your shiatty attitudes?

Oh look at me I'm a poor oppressed man, curse my every advantage.
2013-01-19 09:36:12 AM
5 votes:

jimmajim: So the consensus in this thread is that the guys described in TFA did nothing wrong? There's no point in criticizing their behavior, boys will be boys, right? wink wink nudge nudge.


Actually, it's a sign of a much larger social problem. Susan Faludi describes it well in her book "backlash". Basically, when boys don't have men in their lives, and their mothers are checked out (usually fallout from a bad marriage) they turn to a peer-based family. When immature, stupid boys get together, they do ALL kinds of crazy shiat to get laughs and prove alpha status in the pack. It's like that joke about the one white boy with a group of blacks. You KNOW he did something crazy to earn their respect.

I'm not justifying poor behavior, just pointing out that it's not going anywhere. We would need to stabilize families, and their incomes. THEN we'd need a generation, or two, or three of that stability to remove the stink from the genes and family tree.

Considering our politicians actively legislate AGAINST an entire society of strong nuclear families, this will never happen. We need to put a 20%+ tariff on all imports, open our textile mills again, create even more blue collar jobs on top of that. THEN we can start the 3 generation plus process of reteaching our children how to be morally strong, ethically brave. Instead, our 'leaders' are cutting budgets to social services, convincing children that bad people are everywhere, and the only way to stop them is to take away our society's access to firearms.

SIMPLY PUT: broken, impovershed families are great breeding grounds for future consumers, soldiers and derps. And we need those stupid women just as much as those stupid men. How else are we going to keep america stocked with fodder for it's armies and advertisements?

/Rant
//29 yr old man, sick of the shiat.
2013-01-19 09:22:50 AM
5 votes:

SnarfVader: But it's still OK to male bash, right ladies?


Who said that? Why is it ok to attribute the words of a few women to all men? Are we taking the words of fringe men - that female sexual pleasure is perverse and that they should have their clitoris removed - and projecting them over all of men? No. We aren't.

I wonder why you are projecting fringe views of a few people across all of women? Perhaps to justify your own bigoted position?
2013-01-19 09:19:51 AM
5 votes:
So the consensus in this thread is that the guys described in TFA did nothing wrong? There's no point in criticizing their behavior, boys will be boys, right? wink wink nudge nudge.
2013-01-19 09:18:48 AM
5 votes:

Honest Bender: Don't worry. Some day you'll hit that right age where you become invisible to men. Then it's fun to watch women freak out that they can't get attention anymore.


I'm that age now, or rapidly approaching it, and let me tell you, it's a relief. I can now enjoy the benefits most guys have, which is not being stared at by some guy, any guy, anywhere i go. Of course, I'm am geek girl and would have liked these benefits of "this age" 30 years ago.

Of course, if you're openly being cruised by aggressive gay guys whenever and wherever you go, you have my sympathy...age falls off slower it seems.
2013-01-19 01:42:11 PM
4 votes:
When I was a teenager, I had the thoughts of "Which gender has it easier/which would I rather be." Ultimately I decided I was more than happy to be a man, and the largest reason for that, was that I got to be left alone without taking any extraordinary pains. Women who are not obviously hideous (And not just "not pretty" I mean "There's a story to it") simply don't get to be left alone unless they go all Silvia Plath.

Article writer doesn't spur much sympathy from me, but for women in general, I pity the ones who just want to be left alone. Because you most likely won't be.

/back to dim room
//alone
/// :)
2013-01-19 12:24:20 PM
4 votes:

bunner: meat0918: We've come so far, haven't we?

The fact that we can look back and notice that we have come up - to a degree, out of the primordial goo means that we haven't come far enough and we already know how to climb the rest of the way. Men AND women. But we don't. We still think somebody wins and that having a snarky story for our BFFs is more important than honest love and respect. No, women aren't just baby ovens. And guess what, ladies? Men aren't practice mannequins. I got an idea. How about we ALL cut the sh*t and try holding hands at the movies, again?


Admirable sentiment, but I think you are giving young people too much credit. They're just using trial and error to figure out how to interact with the opposite sex - they don't intelligently consider strategies and choose one. We have castrated all the social structures that would give them rules to follow and strategies to use, so they just do whatever their hindbrains urge them to do, and then see what happens.
2013-01-19 12:22:39 PM
4 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: Pincy: THE GREAT NAME: Pincy: Comedian Ever Mainard sums up this mindset in her excellent bit about the fact that women are constantly aware that "their rape" could happen at any time. She says, "The problem is that every woman has that one moment when you think, here's my rape!

Just asked my wife about this. At just over 40 she's had two of these moments that she can recall. That sucks.

So now a woman doesn't even have to be raped to be a victim of rape? Get real. Things happen that scare us sometimes.

Did I say she was a victim of rape? NO. I said she thought she was going to be raped. One if definitely worse than the other but it still sucks that women have to constantly be on their guard.

As a man, I can honestly say that I have never once thought to myself "I think I'm going to be raped". My guess is the percentage of men who have never had this feeling is much much higher than the percentage of women. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

Men have to be constantly on guard about the thread of a false rape accusation. A successful false rape accusation is just as bad as a rape and so the fear is just as legitimate.


Ya, I know when I'm walking down the street at night I'm constantly on my guard for roving packs of women accusing me of raping them.
2013-01-19 12:16:54 PM
4 votes:

clowncar on fire: Pincy: clowncar on fire: ThrobblefootSpectre: Pincy: Well, you were working in a sports bar that I'm guessing probably catered to men, so I'm not exactly surprised you'd get hit on a lot. Now if you are getting the same thing from complete strangers while walking down the street at night that might be a little different.

And is it okay for a guy on the street to get angry (or even start shoving) over a suggestive comment from another guy?

Only if you were trying to find the proper equivalency which- in this case-- would be a female being subject to unwanted comments out on the street by other females.

I don't think guys tend to get as bunched up about unsolicited comments from females as females seem to.

Ya, probably not, since very rarely is a woman going to rape a guy. It's easy for guys to laugh it off or take it as a compliment when the thought of being raped never crosses their mind.

And you actually believe that all unsolicited comments end in rapey rape?


Strawman? Did I say that? Reread what I said. Men never think that there is a possibility of being raped by a woman. For women, it is a possibility. Doesn't mean it is going to happen, but it is a possibility. Depending on the circumstances, that possibility may be very small or much greater. The point is that men don't have to live with that constant fear and thus how we view "attention" from women is different from how women view "attention" from men.

The sooner we men can admit that the better.
2013-01-19 11:30:42 AM
4 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: If women want to really flip it, they have to aim for the shiat that affects men as men, the shiat that personally offends men, the shiat that society pushes to make men feel lesser, weaker, less in control, less sure about themselves. So, what are those things?

Height's an easy one, because it's continually overlooked (just like men's issues can be overlooked). Again, unlike all the very superficial shiat named for women, height is something a man cannot control. He doesn't have to face catcalls from construction crews; his obstacle course is different, but it can still grind down on the soul.

Those who fail become Napoleonic (just like women who fail become Bitter) as a defense mechanism. You know what I mean?


Alright now we are discussing the article. Thank you. Yes there are many ways in which the "flip it" strategy fails. But its just one of many strategies being tried to address a global issue. FWIW shes saying it worked for her to help her get it in her own head when there is gender discrimination at work.

Gender discrimination is something we are raised with - all of us - so its very hard to break.

When I was an undergrad studying architecture my very militant lesbian child development teacher asked me if I was going into architecture because thats what my father does.  I said no. he's an economist. and then asked her if she went into child dev because thats what her father does.

I have used the "flip it" technique on myself (although that was before it had a fancy name and a website) to help me figure out whether I need to modify my own behavior. So its not a perfect tool but its one of several that can be helpful in spotting gender discrimination.
2013-01-19 11:02:14 AM
4 votes:
I clearly remember the first time I saw people acting like what she describes in the article. I was absolutely flabbergasted that it was real. But then I grew up in a small town and was pretty sheltered.

When I went to a bigger city as an undergrad and worked at a grocery store it was insane, out of control, and no one appeared to care. It was bad enough it made me uncomfortable, and I wasn't even the object of the behavior. But it made me hyper-aware of it, made me see it everywhere.

Now where I see it, it seems to cut across lines of education and social stratum. At the company where I work, it doesn't happen, at least not as I understand it from some of my teammates. It's still plainly visible at the grocery store a few blocks away.

It is sad that we have got to the point where we are willing to just accept this as normal and belittle anyone who complains about it.
2013-01-19 10:47:32 AM
4 votes:
Well to fix this you need women to change how dating works. Guys only do this because they are the one with the onus to approach women, if women would come up and ask out guys, this would turn everything around.
2013-01-19 10:47:27 AM
4 votes:
Holy shiatcakes, it's rare to see 200+ comments of so many people JUST NOT GETTING IT.

Your intrusion into my life is not welcome. Keep it to yourself!
2013-01-19 09:59:15 AM
4 votes:
Maybe guys would stop acting like this if women stopped rewarding them by sleeping with them while they are young and pretty and then marrying the nice guy when she's old and used up....
2013-01-19 09:43:58 AM
4 votes:

PanicMan: I didn't know Saturday morning was "sexist asshole" time here. Good to know.


Yeah Im gonna mark it on my calendar from now on.

Bored Horde: WhippingBoy: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: DrPainMD: Don't worry DNWPG. If your real-life personality is anything like your Fark personality, they'll leave you alone as soon as they get to know you.

Yea, because the last guy who groped my ass in a crowded subway car wanted to know what I thought of the dual Higgs discovery, you moron.

Do you think that this doesn't happen to men? When I was younger, I had my ass groped (without my consent) a number of times. I imagine that men who are more attractive then me have experienced this even more.

Groping a woman carries the implicit threat of rape in a way that a woman groping a man doesn't. However uncomfortable you felt being groped, remember that women are taught that it's their fault they got groped, that all men are groping raping monsters and it's the woman's fault if they let them get close.

For you, it was the simple act of violation of your body. For women, it's that AND a reminder that their body's positive assets belong to society.


While I agree with you completely you are assuming it was a woman who groped him. However the point still stands that far more women get raped then men and it is a much bigger threat getting your ass grabbed.

The thing is every single woman I know has had to deal with the potential for sexual harassment as an ongoing part of her daily life. And even though I have reached the supposedly "invisible" age I still have to deal with that shiat. And I assure you I am thoroughly average in appearance. OTOH my hubby who is very tall and very handsome has never ever been sexually harassed.
2013-01-19 09:42:56 AM
4 votes:

someonelse: letrole: Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits.

You can't troll a thread where the most blatantly ignorant opinions are already being expressed in earnest, dude. You can't make a sh*thouse smell worse.


I'm in a commited relationship with a woman 8 years older than me. He's not trolling, it's true. She's old enough that she fears not being attractive on a regular basis. She's real enough that she'll flat out admit that she doesn't want gross dudes oggling her. If an attractive man checks her out or compliments her, it makes her feel great because it means (on a genetic level at least) that she's viable. Basic programming at it's finest.
2013-01-19 09:32:51 AM
4 votes:
Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits.
2013-01-19 09:32:43 AM
4 votes:

WhippingBoy: jimmajim: So the consensus in this thread is that the guys described in TFA did nothing wrong? There's no point in criticizing their behavior, boys will be boys, right? wink wink nudge nudge.

Who said that? Be specific.


No one did -- my point is that there's plenty of criticism in here of TFA's author, but, strangely, no criticism of the behavior that she describes.
2013-01-19 09:28:51 AM
4 votes:
I didn't know Saturday morning was "sexist asshole" time here. Good to know.
2013-01-19 09:12:23 AM
4 votes:

ModernLuddite: Ladies: You can have equality when you stop using your body to get free shiat.

Deal?


Never happen. Not just because men wouldn't allow it to happen, either. It's easier to deal with someone as a body, than as a person. It's easier to control (and be controlled). Things are simpler. Everyone likes simple.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------

Smashed Hat: What about all the women who have harassed ME about my enormous dong? What about MY rights??

/never happened once
//cries softly to himself



Thank you for pointing this out. There are some major social differences at work here. There is no straight comparison at all. What do women want from men, that men will become harassed and frightened and angry about when women continue to pursue it from them without their permission (besides alimony)?
2013-01-19 09:10:28 AM
4 votes:
It's hard to concentrate on this in such a sandwich-free environment....
2013-01-19 11:06:42 PM
3 votes:

PsiChick: Bisu: You DON'T have to teach her that. Now she'll end up as cold and bitter as you. You're definitely not close to the "fine line." You're pretty clearly on one side of it.

And how you choose to see men is pathetic. Because not 100% of guilty men are found guilty of their crimes, you claim you HAVE to treat ALL MEN like they are guilty. That's some great logic there. So it's better for tens of millions of innocent men to be seen as guilty than thousands of guilty men to be seen as innocent? So you believe in the OPPOSITE of Blackstone's formulation.

I HOPE HOPE HOPE you are trolling or exaggerating.

I love this logic. "B-b-but I'M not a rapist! How can you not see that I'M a sweet, sensitive guy who just chose to try and flirt on the bus! WHY ARE YOU SUCH A COLD BIATCH?!"

Well, here's the thing: Rapists don't come with warning signs. And since there's a bat's chance in hell anyone will punish the rapist if a woman is raped (never mind that nobody tries to prevent the rape in the first place), what other option is there? If you chat me up on a bus and I chat back, guess who gets blamed if you rape me? It ain't you, bud.

But hey, congrats on supporting a system where 94% of  actual literal rapes, according to the FBI, are never reported because of that exact mentality.


And here comes the FEMINIST MATH. Where it is suddenly possible to quantify UNREPORTED CRIMES, and come up with an unrealistically huge number!. (and flog them around for political purposes, knowing they aren't real).

The idea that rape is not taken seriously by law enforcement and the courts is one of the most pernicious feminist lies. Nobody can say for sure how many rapes go unreported, but if the 94% number doesn't ring your warning bells, you're a moron. Especially considering other research that says the majority by far of known rapes are pedophilic....parents just not following up? Really? I know three rape victims(including one male)....not one failed to report. (anecdotal, I know, but you'd think there would be ONE.) No failed convictions, either, although one perp committed suicide rather than face jail as a rapist.

You want to get away with rape or sexual assault? Be a woman and coerce an unwilling male, or sexually abuse your kids.

Rape is taken very seriously in western societies. It is harshly punished, and accusations, even if completely false, tend to ruin lives...yet some feminists are already pushing for the standards of evidence to be reversed in rape cases....meaning an accusation is a conviction, unless there is definitive, airtight proof of innocence. In addition to "shield laws" already in place.

Feminists and government orgs love to make up ridiculous numbers about rape...this is common knowledge for the non-kool-aid crowd. If you hear about 1 in 4 women being assaulted in college, or 1 in 6 being raped in their lifetime, it's FEMINIST MATH.

The only studies that get to numbers like 1 in 6 women being raped do so by using self-selecting surveys (people who don't fit the profile generally don't complete them). Then they never ask if a woman was raped, they ask about having sex and "feeling abused" or "feeling taken advantage of" the next day, or asking if they drank alcohol. Then THEY decide who was raped, with no personal knowledge. Generally, only a quarter or less of the women identified as rape victims actually identify themselves as victims.

Also, neat little tricks to boost numbers....if a couple of teens are making out, and heavy petting is occurring, and a fingertip goes in, that is considered rape, even if there was consent and then revoked consent, and no type of force or coercion, or refusal to stop.

The best real rape numbers anyone can really come up with usually amount to at worst, 1 in 17-20 women being raped (still with some questionable definitions, though).

Same kind of numbers juggling for "sexual assault" and domestic abuse Define it so that it means "a man did something to a woman that she didn't like". Hey presto! A SEXUAL ASSAULT AND ABUSE EPIDEMIC!

Feminist math even extends to family court, and "abuse" allegations. The real numbers, non-redacted and fairly compared, say that women are just as abusive as men, and tend to hit first. They also abuse children more than men, by a good margin. But arrests, conviction rates, and sentences are a fraction of those for men.
Some lawyers with years if experience in family courts estimate that up to 50% of abuse and sexual abuse allegations in divorce cases are false. But that won't stop a judge from his social duty of white knighting and male punishment.

But sure....94% of rape victims don't report it to authorities....I guess that's a usable number, if your main goal is to scare the shiat out of women and demonize men without regard for truth or consequences. But given the reliability of feminist math, I have a hard time believing it.
2013-01-19 02:08:08 PM
3 votes:

WordyGrrl: Pincy: Men never think that there is a possibility of being raped by a woman. For women, it is a possibility. Doesn't mean it is going to happen, but it is a possibility. Depending on the circumstances, that possibility may be very small or much greater. The point is that men don't have to live with that constant fear and thus how we view "attention" from women is different from how women view "attention" from men.

The sooner we men can admit that the better.

For men, avoiding rape means staying out of prison where Big Bubba ogles your junk and keeps saying how he'd like to crack open yer butt. For women, the chances are much higher that Big Bubba could be anywhere -- standing behind them in the checkout line at Target, at the bus stop, in the library, stalking them through the parking lot, etc. He might be ugly or good-looking, short or tall, scrawny or buff.

When somebody treats you like prey, that threatening behavior kicks off the flight or fight response. It doesn't have to be a genuine threat. It just needs to be perceived by the victim as a threat. Women, unfortunately, run into more situations in which they have to "check the database" to evaluate threats to their person and it's usually in situations that men wouldn't imagine might contain any threat. To treat every encounter as a "100% safe until proven wrong" situation would be foolish -- and dangerous. Sadly, because of the bad apples out there, women have to stay in some level of self-preservation mode all the time. A lot of men can't imagine living in that mode, but for women, it's the norm.


The stats show clearly that you're far safer around strangers then with people you know. In order, you're going to be raped by a) your current partner, b) your close friends, c) your co-workers. Then we move into casual friends, dates, and people you meet at parties. When we move into the realm of people we meet in passing, the odds become utterly remote.

We've taught women completely ass-backwards on who to be suspicious of. It's like telling people to avoid accidents by watching the sky for incoming aircraft. We aren't teaching people to establish clear boundaries with people, and we aren't teaching people to respect those boundaries.
2013-01-19 02:06:00 PM
3 votes:

Bored Horde: untaken_name: Bored Horde: untaken_name: A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.

Yeah how dare she want to travel the world without being subject to sexual harassment, what a cunning stunt.

One difference between men and women is that men are constantly subjected to things we don't like also, but we don't feel the need to biatch about them to the world and try to make everyone on the planet behave in a way that makes us individually comfortable. For example, I'm constantly subjected to ridiculous nonsense posts like yours, but you don't see me telling you to shut the fark up and never post again, do you?

Please tell us more about the long list of injustices that men must suffer that women don't also suffer. Oh god, being paid more. Damn. Oh bother, being taken more seriously. Jesus christ, restating someone else's idea and being given credit for it.

Being a man is AWESOME. Being a white man is REALLY AWESOME. If you don't acknowledge all the great things that come by default, you're an ASSHOLE. You know that guy who was born on third and talks like he hit a triple? Don't be that guy. Nobody likes that guy.


Being a white, privileged, middle/upper class woman is REALLY AWESOME too. Most people seem to forget that for some reason.
2013-01-19 01:05:04 PM
3 votes:
I cannot believe how horrifically ashamed of the mysoginist douchebags in this thread. Even for Fark this is amazingly pathetic. To the small number of people who commented against the hate, I applaud you. To everyone else I truly and dearly hope you DIAF. No really, as soon as is possible would be great.

I appreciate that some of you are emotionally and mentally a 13 year old and feel that because you don't get to have sex with a pretty woman that all woman are evil. It just amazes me how you hide behind a facade of excuses, blaming and what I'd like to coin as 'intellectual hatred'. How you have somehow twisted reality in your mind to effectively say it is okay that women are treated like this and you have perfectly valid reasons for feeling the way you do. When what it really boils down to is since you can't have whatever woman (or women) you think you deserve they should all continue to shutup and accept their victimhood graciously. Allow me to reiterate... die soon, please.
2013-01-19 12:48:38 PM
3 votes:
Fark readership is a bunch of assholes. This should come as no surprise to anybody.

Good article.
2013-01-19 12:32:08 PM
3 votes:

Pincy: Comedian Ever Mainard sums up this mindset in her excellent bit about the fact that women are constantly aware that "their rape" could happen at any time. She says, "The problem is that every woman has that one moment when you think, here's my rape!

Just asked my wife about this. At just over 40 she's had two of these moments that she can recall. That sucks.


Thanks, was just about to give up on this thread.

Guys, she can't read your mind. She doesn't know what you want. "she should take it as a compliment" is *your* interpretation based on your context; maybe she agrees, maybe not. It's not about boy/girl, it's basic empathy and interpersonal skills.
2013-01-19 11:31:11 AM
3 votes:

lordjupiter: The women were asked to rate the degree to which they felt sexually harassed.


And this is where everything breaks down.


Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature
Alan S. Miller Ph.D., Satoshi Kanazawa Ph.D.

Men sexually harass women because they are not sexist

An unfortunate consequence of the ever-growing number of women joining the labor force and working side by side with men is the increasing number of sexual harassment cases. Why must sexual harassment be a necessary consequence of the sexual integration of the workplace?

Psychologist Kingsley R. Browne identifies two types of sexual harassment cases: the quid pro quo ("You must sleep with me if you want to keep your job or be promoted") and the "hostile environment" (the workplace is deemed too sexualized for workers to feel safe and comfortable). While feminists and social scientists tend to explain sexual harassment in terms of "patriarchy" and other ideologies, Browne locates the ultimate cause of both types of sexual harassment in sex differences in mating strategies.

Studies demonstrate unequivocally that men are far more interested in short-term casual sex than women. In one now-classic study, 75 percent of undergraduate men approached by an attractive female stranger agreed to have sex with her; none of the women approached by an attractive male stranger did. Many men who would not date the stranger nonetheless agreed to have sex with her.

The quid pro quo types of harassment are manifestations of men's greater desire for short-term casual sex and their willingness to use any available means to achieve that goal. Feminists often claim that sexual harassment is "not about sex but about power;" Browne contends it is both-men using power to get sex. "To say that it is only about power makes no more sense than saying that bank robbery is only about guns, not about money."

Sexual harassment cases of the hostile-environment variety result from sex differences in what men and women perceive as "overly sexual" or "hostile" behavior. Many women legitimately complain that they have been subjected to abusive, intimidating, and degrading treatment by their male coworkers. Browne points out that long before women entered the labor force, men subjected each other to such abusive, intimidating, and degrading treatment.

Abuse, intimidation, and degradation are all part of men's repertoire of tactics employed in competitive situations. In other words, men are not treating women differently from men-the definition of discrimination, under which sexual harassment legally falls-but the opposite: Men harass women precisely because they are not discriminating between men and women.

2013-01-19 11:17:44 AM
3 votes:
Link

[A critical component of a victim's perception of harassment is the undesirability of the sexual advance.

In their 1994 study, Sheets and Braver gave more than 200 college students--80 percent had part-time jobs, and about 30 percent reported encountering sexual harassment in the workplace--a vignette describing a workplace interaction between male and female coworkers in a law firm. The man was described as either a lawyer, research assistant, or courier, and as married or single. Photos of the men, prerated for attractiveness, were included with the story.

The women were asked to rate the degree to which they felt sexually harassed.

Attractive, single men were least likely to be accused of sexual harassment. Although the team expected that people with higher status would be more desirable as a potential date or mate--and so less likely to be seen as harassing--social status didn't seem to affect the subjects' perceptions of harassment.

The victim's marital status may play a role, according to Braver. "If you're married, advances are seen as more harassing. And people involved in a committed relationship are even more likely than married people to find advances harassing. At this point, I can only speculate that's because they're in less committed, and less secure, relationships."]


Let's try and not confuse the interactions of people who are just bad at the "mating game" with real sexual predators and rape. Crying wolf only makes it worse for real victims of assault, and not just people who can't handle the jerks and biatches in life.

In the case of a woman on the street, part of what makes the guy unattractive is that he's a stranger who is yelling at her on the street. It may also be how he's dressed, what she's been taught to "look out for", or something similar.

He is acting like inappropriate asshole, and she is potentially putting too much stock in her own perceived "right" to walk through life as both attractive and unapproached by anyone she hasn't pre-approved.

As has been mentioned, men have this problem at times but usually blow it off. We have our own set of obstacles in life, and some do biatch about them more than others, just like some women do.
2013-01-19 11:06:43 AM
3 votes:

quickdraw: KiwDaWabbit: I just wonder, who is the target audience for this article?

I'm pretty sure it's not men who creep on women.

Yes. She says that in the article. So she is most likely trying to reach those people who dont think they condone this behavior but who enable it by pretending it doesnt exist.


You mean like people who enable woman-on-mad domestic violence by pretending it doesn't exist? Or discrimination against boys in state schools? Or women who sue for childcare when they're clearly better off then the husband? Or female child abusers? Or women who make false rape claims?
2013-01-19 11:03:50 AM
3 votes:
Where the fark does this lady live that that's 'normal' for her? I have never, in my life, seen that shiat. Not at bus stops or clubs, not once.

And the 'omg stranger who doesn't speak my language grabbed my arm! He was calling me a whore!' uh, lady, he could have just thought you were pretty and wanted to get your attention.

I've only skimmed here, because, uh, wow, lots of male butthurt and female butthurt all conflicting and screaming insults at each other and not much else, but I have a question: in American society, the male has to be the pursuer.

Women operate on a much higher frequency, language wise; they run 5-10 conversations at once, and men run one, maybe two (verbal and limited body). Women also typically have a pick of who or whatever they want, and men have to be aggressive to even get the attention of a woman most times. Isn't this simply an extension of how society as a whole functions? Sure, in a relationship, women have much more to lose (pregnancy, child, health risks, etc.), but again, society forces a man to chase a woman. If he's a 'perfect gentleman' like in the books, would he even get the attention of a woman now? Or would she assume he's uninterested and/or gay?

And, again, where the fark does this woman live? I have never seen people act like that, on college campuses, in NOLA, in Houston, or Dallas, or any sort of 'party in the desert'.
2013-01-19 11:01:55 AM
3 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: I'm defending "men" in general.

Why?

Why? I dunno... because there just might be some men out there who are decent human beings?

Nowhere in that article does it imply there are no good men. FFS just because a women says lots of men act like assholes doesnt mean all men do. If I said the Olive Garden sucks would you feel the need to defend all Italian restaurants?

Blacks have to. Why not generic racial-not-specific men?

Blacks have to what? Eat at Olive Garden? Really not sure what youre getting at here...

"just because a non-black says lots of blacks act like assholes doesn't mean all blacks do. if I said blacks suck would you feel the need to defend all blacks?" -- that's where I was going with it. and the reason why i did so is because i'd rather blacks stood up against it, than turned turtle and pretended 'well what someone says about all blacks doesn't pertain to me because i'm an individual' when seeing shiat like that in a public setting. it doens't come across as being an individual, it comes across as agreement, like 'see, even other blacks think blacks are assholes'.

in this case, if men don't stand up for themselves when there is the appearance of painting all men with the 'rapist' brush, then it doesn't come across as dudes being individuals, it comes across as agreement. I'm still probably not saying this right. I apologize. Working two projects this morning without breakfast. i need a BLT but don't want to head to the store.


Where in the article does it say "All men are rapists?" I'll tell you. No where. The article describes her experiences of being harrassed.  Its not like shes advocating castration. You can put your lance down. The male population doesnt need your white-knighting.
2013-01-19 10:38:21 AM
3 votes:

Howie Spankowitz: Wow.  Been a Farker for a long time.  Seldom see such near universal mouth-breathing, male douchebaggery so early and often in a thread.  TFA's author was completely reasonable and 90% of the comments from you assclowns is "hurrr get me a sammich durr be glad dudes are even looking at you hurrr she needs to get laid."

So glad I don't have a daughter.


Wow, indeed. I've just made a lot of inductions into my Douchebag list.
2013-01-19 10:38:06 AM
3 votes:

theflatline: I am a short guy, and I held the door open for a shorter girl in a bar and she said loudly "sorry honey you have to be a least six feet to ride this"

A woman at my office constantly comments on my package "you must have steel belted underwear to hold that thing in check"

Also big guys with inferiority complexes tend to bump into you, call your shorty, buddy, big guy chief, and condescend.


ok - so one chick was rude, the woman in your office should be brought up on harassment charges and yes there are bullies in the world. Life isnt fair. But what does any of that have to do with the writer's concerns? She isnt writing about the difficulties of being a short guy. You can do that on your blog if you want.

This is an article about the difficulties of being female in our culture. Just because you're not happy in your skin has nothing to do with the very real problems women face every day from harassment.
2013-01-19 10:32:26 AM
3 votes:

KiwDaWabbit: I just wonder, who is the target audience for this article?

I'm pretty sure it's not men who creep on women.


Yes. She says that in the article. So she is most likely trying to reach those people who dont think they condone this behavior but who enable it by pretending it doesnt exist.

Plenty of examples of which apparently read fark on Saturday morning.
2013-01-19 10:29:10 AM
3 votes:

WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: I'm defending "men" in general.

Why?

Why? I dunno... because there just might be some men out there who are decent human beings?

Nowhere in that article does it imply there are no good men. FFS just because a women says lots of men act like assholes doesnt mean all men do. If I said the Olive Garden sucks would you feel the need to defend all Italian restaurants?

Yes, exactly, that's entirely my point. I'm not sure what we're arguing about.

So you sympathize with the author?

I think she's overly dramatic, self-centred, narcissistic, and pushing an agenda, but yes, I do sympathize with her.
What I have a problem with is the use of the all-encompassing word "men", as if all men participated and/or condoned in such behaviour. If I met a woman (or women) who exhibited stereotypical "biatchy" behaviour, would it be fair of me to say that "women are biatches"? Of course not.


No one is saying all men are assholes. No one.

/cripes. white guys sure know how to nurse a persecution complex
2013-01-19 10:29:04 AM
3 votes:
I just wonder, who is the target audience for this article?

I'm pretty sure it's not men who creep on women.
2013-01-19 10:26:36 AM
3 votes:

SnarfVader: WhippingBoy: Smock Pot: I don't know why women keep trying to tell men what it's like, because men are never going to get it. Ever. No matter what a woman says about this, no matter how many analogies she makes, no matter how she says it, men will respond with... pretty much everything in this thread. They will continue to act like untrained dogs around women they want to fark and shiat all over women they deem too old or too ugly to fark.

Yep, this is true.

No, it's bullshiat. Not all men are like that, especially not the ones like me who have daughters they want to see succeed. Quit lumping us all together.


If you aren't like the men described in the article, great. Be an example and stand up for women when you see this shiat.

Just understand that as a man, you're still never gonna get it.
2013-01-19 10:25:11 AM
3 votes:

quickdraw: WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: I'm defending "men" in general.

Why?

Why? I dunno... because there just might be some men out there who are decent human beings?

Nowhere in that article does it imply there are no good men. FFS just because a women says lots of men act like assholes doesnt mean all men do. If I said the Olive Garden sucks would you feel the need to defend all Italian restaurants?

Yes, exactly, that's entirely my point. I'm not sure what we're arguing about.

So you sympathize with the author?


I think she's overly dramatic, self-centred, narcissistic, and pushing an agenda, but yes, I do sympathize with her.
What I have a problem with is the use of the all-encompassing word "men", as if all men participated and/or condoned in such behaviour. If I met a woman (or women) who exhibited stereotypical "biatchy" behaviour, would it be fair of me to say that "women are biatches"? Of course not.
2013-01-19 10:23:31 AM
3 votes:

WhippingBoy: Howie Spankowitz: I know...right?!  Women...just shut up and let it happen.  Men will never learn, so don't even try.  WhippingBoy has spoken.

You're missing the point. And your painting with a very broad brush.


I don't think I'm doing either.  I think it was pretty clear you were making the argument that this behavior is inevitable so women should just stop complaining about it.  Please disabuse me of this if you can.  Perhaps I missed some of your posts where you clarified it.

ElectricPeterTork: Howie Spankowitz: ElectricPeterTork: Howie Spankowitz: Wow.  Been a Farker for a long time.  Seldom see such near universal mouth-breathing, male douchebaggery so early and often in a thread.  TFA's author was completely reasonable and 90% of the comments from you assclowns is "hurrr get me a sammich durr be glad dudes are even looking at you hurrr she needs to get laid."

So glad I don't have a daughter.

The article lost me with the "Jailbreak the Patriarchy" app.

If you allow something trivial like that to cause you to dismiss a well-articulated and reasonable argument, then you're probably someone who wouldn't understand her point to begin with.

No, it makes me think "Hm... she has an agenda she's pushing, and pushing hard", and I tend to doubt anything written after discovering the author is, basically, a shill.

It's like if someone had written what seems like a fairly intelligent article about the 2012 election, and cited the eye-opening polling information they read at Unskewed Polls.


That analogy makes no sense at all.  You should feel bad for making it.  And of course she has an agenda.  She wrote an opinion piece, implying that she has a strong point of view on a subject matter.  Neither promoting the app nor having an agenda make her point invalid.
2013-01-19 10:20:25 AM
3 votes:

Howie Spankowitz: Wow.  Been a Farker for a long time.  Seldom see such near universal mouth-breathing, male douchebaggery so early and often in a thread.  TFA's author was completely reasonable and 90% of the comments from you assclowns is "hurrr get me a sammich durr be glad dudes are even looking at you hurrr she needs to get laid."

So glad I don't have a daughter.


I read the article expecting to roll my eyes, but found it to be reasonable. The comments in TFA were also reasonable and not too "you go girl!!", then I clicked on these comments and wondered why I come to Fark (Is it always like this? did I miss that?)
Glad to see your comment.

/last time I was "cat-called" was NYE and a guy in his 20s said to me as I walked past "You look very nice tonight." Now that's a compliment!
2013-01-19 10:14:58 AM
3 votes:

WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: I'm defending "men" in general.

Why?

Why? I dunno... because there just might be some men out there who are decent human beings?


Nowhere in that article does it imply there are no good men. FFS just because a women says lots of men act like assholes doesnt mean all men do. If I said the Olive Garden sucks would you feel the need to defend all Italian restaurants?
2013-01-19 10:10:13 AM
3 votes:
You mean... we live in a society that objectifies women?

Look at the magazines that cater to men, and women. What do you see?

Women being chastised for being too big or too bony.... too tall or too short... not curvy or too curvy... too independent or too devoted... dressed well enough dressed 'too' well... not sexy enough or too sexy etc. And that's the publications that are targeted AT WOMEN. And the best part... if you don't 'love yourself', that's your own fault.

Men's magazines? Here's some cool shiat, some interesting shiat, and some sexy women.

And a csb moment... friend of the gf reads Men's Health rather than the women-oriented alternative. The articles are less banal, and the recipes are easier to make into reality.
2013-01-19 10:08:20 AM
3 votes:

someonelse: TiiiMMMaHHH: someonelse: letrole: Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits.

You can't troll a thread where the most blatantly ignorant opinions are already being expressed in earnest, dude. You can't make a sh*thouse smell worse.

I'm in a commited relationship with a woman 8 years older than me. He's not trolling, it's true. She's old enough that she fears not being attractive on a regular basis. She's real enough that she'll flat out admit that she doesn't want gross dudes oggling her. If an attractive man checks her out or compliments her, it makes her feel great because it means (on a genetic level at least) that she's viable. Basic programming at it's finest.

His/her name is The Troll, and he is always and forever trolling. You know this, or ought to.

Nothing in your second paragraph is particularly relevant. Your girlfriend likes being complimented, therefore what? What basic logic are you using?


That an HONEST woman will tell you: When ugly guys hit on me, I wince. When cute guys hit on me, I think for a second "I'd hit it. He has good genes". WOMEN LIE ABOUT THIS FACTOR ALL THE TIME.

Difference usually being; a mature woman values her partner more than her orgasms.
2013-01-19 10:07:22 AM
3 votes:

Howie Spankowitz: Wow.  Been a Farker for a long time.  Seldom see such near universal mouth-breathing, male douchebaggery so early and often in a thread.  TFA's author was completely reasonable and 90% of the comments from you assclowns is "hurrr get me a sammich durr be glad dudes are even looking at you hurrr she needs to get laid."

So glad I don't have a daughter.


The article lost me with the "Jailbreak the Patriarchy" app.
2013-01-19 09:58:50 AM
3 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: ExperianScaresCthulhu:

I see what you're saying, and agree with it. Again, leads back to the ho doth protest too much. She's not really, she's bragging. See also: hos who make a point of pointing out their BMI when it's on the low end.

We raise our daughters to be doctors, lawyers, and citizens, but then some people treat these women like walking sex toys, and when the young women point this out because they discover how frightening and frustrating it gets, they can't POSSIBLY be serious.

Gee, with women spending billions and billions of dollars on clothing, hair styling, salons, manicures, pedicures, make-up, fashion magazines, Cosmo, etc., etc., to compete with each other, I don't understand why,

The problem is perpetuated by women.

This is a case of people outside of the bell curve realizing they were born on the wrong planet. It's like an atheist wondering why religious people are religious.


Over and over again, bad behavior is being excused away, this time its women's fault for the fashion industry, because only the right shade of toenail polish can prevent harassment.
2013-01-19 09:52:12 AM
3 votes:

Bored Horde: omeganuepsilon: That level of paranoia is not normal. That is what she is describing, there's a world of difference between due vigilance and the paranoia of a simpleton. Just maybe, it's a case of the victim gravitating towards them.(AW as people above documented).

That kind of cat-calling is, by and large, a regional thing, the only attainable solution is to move to someplace that activities like that aren't common. I get a kick out of at the bottom of the article it says she loves Chicago. That's an obvious lie if half the populace is like that.

Who needs an app to see what they're doing wrong? It's not that society at large does not think it's wrong, it's that the perpetrators of such behavior DO NOT CARE.

Men's hair gets pointed out well enough, The Donald for a great example, or Nicholas Cage's. So *drumroll* that argument is irrelevant.

Two examples of celebrities.

In the business world, if you're a man, as long as your hair is short and under control, everyone ignores it. It's a check box item. Women's hair gets graded. Men's clothing is the same - it's pass/fail, either the suit is clean, pressed, and fits or it's bad. Women's clothing gets graded for appearance, fashion, and riding the thin line between dowdy and slutty.

If you don't understand this then you're not ready to participate in a discussion about the matter - go read some farking books.


Men are graded on their height. Women can control all of the above. Men can not control their height.
2013-01-19 09:51:28 AM
3 votes:

TiiiMMMaHHH: jimmajim: So the consensus in this thread is that the guys described in TFA did nothing wrong? There's no point in criticizing their behavior, boys will be boys, right? wink wink nudge nudge.

Actually, it's a sign of a much larger social problem. Susan Faludi describes it well in her book "backlash". Basically, when boys don't have men in their lives, and their mothers are checked out (usually fallout from a bad marriage) they turn to a peer-based family. When immature, stupid boys get together, they do ALL kinds of crazy shiat to get laughs and prove alpha status in the pack. It's like that joke about the one white boy with a group of blacks. You KNOW he did something crazy to earn their respect.

I'm not justifying poor behavior, just pointing out that it's not going anywhere. We would need to stabilize families, and their incomes. THEN we'd need a generation, or two, or three of that stability to remove the stink from the genes and family tree.

Considering our politicians actively legislate AGAINST an entire society of strong nuclear families, this will never happen. We need to put a 20%+ tariff on all imports, open our textile mills again, create even more blue collar jobs on top of that. THEN we can start the 3 generation plus process of reteaching our children how to be morally strong, ethically brave. Instead, our 'leaders' are cutting budgets to social services, convincing children that bad people are everywhere, and the only way to stop them is to take away our society's access to firearms.

SIMPLY PUT: broken, impovershed families are great breeding grounds for future consumers, soldiers and derps. And we need those stupid women just as much as those stupid men. How else are we going to keep america stocked with fodder for it's armies and advertisements?

/Rant
//29 yr old man, sick of the shiat.


Feminists will still blame the 'patriarchy', even though all these bad behaving boys had no fathers, who typically teach their sons to be better than that.
2013-01-19 09:51:03 AM
3 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.

Yeah.

Women never judge each other on these things.


There's a difference between silently judging someone's looks and having complete strangers commenting on your "taco".but I bet you knew that.
2013-01-19 09:50:01 AM
3 votes:

medius: and the day comes when they stop looking


No it doesn't. A woman is always prey regardless of her age. You watched too many bad TV shows. My 92 year old grandma got hit on by her neighbor last year. He was creepy about it too.
2013-01-19 09:41:21 AM
3 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: ExperianScaresCthulhu:

I see what you're saying, and agree with it. Again, leads back to the ho doth protest too much. She's not really, she's bragging. See also: hos who make a point of pointing out their BMI when it's on the low end.

We raise our daughters to be doctors, lawyers, and citizens, but then some people treat these women like walking sex toys, and when the young women point this out because they discover how frightening and frustrating it gets, they can't POSSIBLY be serious.


Gee, with women spending billions and billions of dollars on clothing, hair styling, salons, manicures, pedicures, make-up, fashion magazines, Cosmo, etc., etc., to compete with each other, I don't understand why,

The problem is perpetuated by women.

This is a case of people outside of the bell curve realizing they were born on the wrong planet. It's like an atheist wondering why religious people are religious.
2013-01-19 09:41:05 AM
3 votes:

someonelse: letrole: Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits.

You can't troll a thread where the most blatantly ignorant opinions are already being expressed in earnest, dude. You can't make a sh*thouse smell worse.


It's true. It's The Onion's problem. When Republicans elected to the Federal Government are lamenting the dearth of rights we give Rapists over the women they've raped, how can you satirize life?
2013-01-19 09:34:31 AM
3 votes:
I love her "jailbreak the patriarchy" plug in from Google. I've done things like that for years to point out instances of blatant sexism against men, it's amazing what swapping pronouns can do. So instead of being a sexist, why not trying people like human beings?

I've two big gripes about this article. The first is that women reach an age around their mid-40's and all of attention stops. It's called becoming invisible, and their are websites and products designed to fight this problem. My point being that it's overblown, even if their are guys out there that are complete jerks. If she's really concerned for her safety she should get a concealed carry permit and take safety classes, many are designed just for women.

My second gripe with the article is that women give other women a far harder time in life than men do. I've had female friends my entire life, and I can't think of a single one of them that would say men give them more trouble then other women do. Again, back to my point, why not treat people decently regardless of who they are?
2013-01-19 09:31:26 AM
3 votes:

Bored Horde: For you, it was the simple act of violation of your body.


Oh well then, hardly worth mentioning...
2013-01-19 09:23:44 AM
3 votes:
I eagerly await the follow up article in 20 years whining about how guys don't pay attention to her anymore.
2013-01-19 09:17:46 AM
3 votes:
But it's still OK to male bash, right ladies?
2013-01-19 08:06:24 AM
3 votes:

Honest Bender: Don't worry. Some day you'll hit that right age where you become invisible to men. Then it's fun to watch women freak out that they can't get attention anymore.


And all those years of coasting by on looks and never developing a personality while complaining that they're only recognized for their looks come back to haunt them!
2013-01-19 04:45:46 AM
3 votes:
The author, and most of the commenters, needs to grow a pair.
2013-01-20 01:26:03 PM
2 votes:

Wayne 985: No, you mentioned it as if it was an absurd and irrelevant concept.

[Ctrl+F... Not found.] Imagine that.


Wayne 985: I know a lot of people in society remain uncomfortable with women asserting themselves, and therefore "feminism" has come to mean "radical man-hater", but that's irrelevant.


Yeah, imagine that.

Is it your goal to get ignored or written off as being an irrelevant troll or what?
I only ask because that's the only course you're leaving anyone who's reasonable. If it's not your goal, I suggest you actively try to not be such an asshole.

Wayne 985: Though I will say that equating misandry to feminism is absurd.


No one equated it, only stated that "feminism" contains many flavors.

Wayne 985: Your opinion doesn't trump the dictionary, regardless of your fear of women.


The dictionary does not trump colloquial usage. The purpose of the dictionary is to attempt to describe, not dictate, what we mean when we say X. Inevitably, it falls short. It takes time and effort to reflect the concepts of man, and when that is done, it's already outdated by a society that continues to advance. There are words that have meaning outside of the dictionary, be it the meaning or the word itself.

For a subject such as we are discussing, a lengthy encyclopedia reference does the concept / history more justice than a simple dictionary.
2013-01-20 01:45:05 AM
2 votes:
It's also interesting how the Men's Right's Activists in here apparently wouldn't bat an eyelid if their mother, grandmother or little sister were treated in some of the ways discussed in the article.

I guess they just shouldn't be so darned sexy and dress like whores :(
2013-01-20 12:39:37 AM
2 votes:

The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: UlandaUnicorn: As a 'decent looking' woman, I cry foul at the author. She travels the world and everywhere she goes men follow her and salivate? Doubt it. Get over yourself. You are absolutely paranoid. Rape happens. It isn't something you can prepare for. You can't live life with your kind of mindset and actually enjoy living. Is rape okay? No. Can you change the world with your whining? No. Enjoy your youth while you can because what you don't want is to die tomorrow and everyone know you as the girl who was everyone's victim.

So don't talk about rape and the culture that allows it?


Or... quit pretending that western women face daily oppression, and quit pretending that western culture is rape-encouraging.

Making up pseudo-scientific dogshiat to force your politics on others and police their choices and speech is not the same as "talking about rape." Demanding a return to Victorian mores so that a few women never feel uncomfortable is not "talking about rape".

modern feminism=patriarchy, except with the added bonus of absolutely no benefit for men, just the joy of being the socialist workhorse with no family rights. It's a sport for rich white women who don't think the world has handed them enough of other people's stuff.
2013-01-19 10:45:48 PM
2 votes:

Wayne 985: You don't believe women should have the right to vote or equal pay? That's what "feminism" is, though I believe you're confusing it for "misandry".


I believe in equal rights and equal opportunity because I'm a humanist. And it has nothing to do with feminism. For example, I also support eliminating sentencing disparities between genders (men get sentenced to 275% more prison time for the same crimes). Something feminists are dead silent about, and even biatch about when it is brought up. In short, I believe in equal rights in a true sense, across the board, which is why I could never be a feminist.
2013-01-19 08:30:48 PM
2 votes:
It's amazing to me how many sexual harassment apologists there are in this thread.

To sum them up:

1. The haters. Women are screwed up and delusional, they really WANT the harassment, they'll miss the attention when they get old. What are women worried about? Men would love that kind of attention!
2. The ad hominem. The author of TFA is an obese hack who is lying or just an attention whore.
3. The deniers. They never heard of this kind of behavior and neither has their sister/wife/whatever, so TFA must be exaggerated.
4. The equivocators. Men have it as bad if not worse than women, so this author is complaining about nothing at all. Men suffer more.
5. The straw men : they believe the author is insinuating all men are rapists, therefore this made-up position is wrong and the article is wrong.
6. The resigned. It's just society/fashion/life, so women like the author should just deal with it. Complaints are useless.

I think I got most of them.
2013-01-19 06:24:39 PM
2 votes:
When women get harassed on the street, or at a bar, or on their walk home from work, do you know what we think? We wonder, am I going to get out of this safely? Am I going to walk away from this? Where are my keys if I need to stab someone in the eye? Are there people on the street? Will they hear me? Which way will I run? Solar Plexus, Instep, Nose, Groin. I'm exaggerating, but only so slightly.

I don't see how she's exaggerating at all. This is my thought process when I'm faced with street harassment (and no, I'm not bragging; the worst one I ever experienced was when I had rolled out of bed hung over and looked like an average Mugshot Roundup entrant. It's not how you look, it's that they think they can victimize you).
2013-01-19 05:15:35 PM
2 votes:

Bored Horde: Everything a woman does is open for judgement, in a way that isn't true for men.


Lies. Women and men are judged on different aspects, and respond differently to social pressures. The idea that only women are judged or have concerns about social expectations is insane and counterproductive.

The fundamental issues here are harassment and social pressures, not gender. There might also be an issue with the differences among the genders, but if you solved the basic problem those differences would become irrelevant.

/ But it's a lot easier to rail against the man than to address the basic problem of people being dicks to each other
2013-01-19 05:15:25 PM
2 votes:
If the writer had half a brain she'd realize her issues were the result of her living in the ghetto of Chicago with a bunch of urban youth, and not the result of sexism.

Hey, let's go out to a low-class bar and get angry when we're not treated with manners.

Let's go use a bus-stop in a part of town that has thug-filled cars drive by and get angry when we're not treated with manners by the uneducated ghetto folk.


Stop living in a shiatty part of the city with unmannered uneducated people, and you wouldn't have these issues.
2013-01-19 04:38:37 PM
2 votes:

PsiChick: 94% of actual literal rapes, according to the FBI, are never reported


Um, how'd the FBI find out about them, if they were never reported??
2013-01-19 04:36:19 PM
2 votes:

PsiChick: Bisu: You DON'T have to teach her that. Now she'll end up as cold and bitter as you. You're definitely not close to the "fine line." You're pretty clearly on one side of it.

And how you choose to see men is pathetic. Because not 100% of guilty men are found guilty of their crimes, you claim you HAVE to treat ALL MEN like they are guilty. That's some great logic there. So it's better for tens of millions of innocent men to be seen as guilty than thousands of guilty men to be seen as innocent? So you believe in the OPPOSITE of Blackstone's formulation.

I HOPE HOPE HOPE you are trolling or exaggerating.

I love this logic. "B-b-but I'M not a rapist! How can you not see that I'M a sweet, sensitive guy who just chose to try and flirt on the bus! WHY ARE YOU SUCH A COLD BIATCH?!"

Well, here's the thing: Rapists don't come with warning signs. And since there's a bat's chance in hell anyone will punish the rapist if a woman is raped (never mind that nobody tries to prevent the rape in the first place), what other option is there? If you chat me up on a bus and I chat back, guess who gets blamed if you rape me? It ain't you, bud.

But hey, congrats on supporting a system where 94% of  actual literal rapes, according to the FBI, are never reported because of that exact mentality.


Ya, when a guy you've never met physically attacks you, binds you, and violently rapes you "everyone" will blame you for saying hi. You actually believe that? And you actually think those are the guys that rape people? And you're teaching your daughter this?

Rapists DO come with warning signs (or at least they fall into easily identifiable groups). The guys that aren't quite your friends, but you've met - they're the ones that are by far most likely to rape you - not these strange men on the street at night or on the bus. I can't remember the statistics exactly, but they're probably 5th or so on the list, after acquaintances, boyfriends, husbands, and friends. If you don't know someone's name, he's incredibly low on the "likely rapist" scale.

And it's YOUR mentality that makes it the way it is. When you treat every single man like he's a rapist... wait, what's that story called...oh yeah, the Girl Who Cried Rapist. Of course people won't believe some legitimate victims are victims when people like you and the author equate every man to a rapist. But according to you, when you're found bloody, missing teeth, and bound in an alley, the jury will think some consensual sex must have happened. So don't report it.

I actually have no problem with you ignoring me on the bus . Women that act like you because they believe what you do I don't want in my life anyway. Not that I'd ever start a conversation with a woman I don't know on a bus...

Here's something I came across after my previous post. You share a viewpoint held by such upstanding individuals as Pol Pot and Otto Von Bismarck. So you've got that going for you.
2013-01-19 04:14:30 PM
2 votes:

clowncar: hey, you'll get the right to stop getting hit in the nuts when you stop getting paid 25% more than women


If women really got paid so much less for the same work, then why don't companies slash their payroll by hiring only women??

The truth is, women (as a group) get paid less than men (as a group) because of the choices they make: It's mostly men in dangerous, high paying jobs, and mostly women in safer, lower paying jobs. Women are more likely to take time off when they have a kid, thus losing seniority (and thus pay) vs a man who keeps working. Men are more likely to ask for raises and thus are more likely to get raises. And so on.

When ALL the factors are accounted for, women earn the same as men.
2013-01-19 04:14:13 PM
2 votes:
Interesting article, if a little whiny. The writer needs therapy, though.

As a bartender, I've been sexually harassed several times. However, for a man, that is a moment of choice between "No, thanks" or "When and where?"
I've lived across the South, and have never seen that type of catcalling, and have never done it myself. It's disrespectful, crude and boorish. It must be a Northern urban thing. I can understand the angst and upset at having to deal with that. To make the mental leap from simple harassment to "Today is my rape day" is irrational fear.
2013-01-19 04:10:35 PM
2 votes:

Bisu: You DON'T have to teach her that. Now she'll end up as cold and bitter as you. You're definitely not close to the "fine line." You're pretty clearly on one side of it.

And how you choose to see men is pathetic. Because not 100% of guilty men are found guilty of their crimes, you claim you HAVE to treat ALL MEN like they are guilty. That's some great logic there. So it's better for tens of millions of innocent men to be seen as guilty than thousands of guilty men to be seen as innocent? So you believe in the OPPOSITE of Blackstone's formulation.

I HOPE HOPE HOPE you are trolling or exaggerating.


I love this logic. "B-b-but I'M not a rapist! How can you not see that I'M a sweet, sensitive guy who just chose to try and flirt on the bus! WHY ARE YOU SUCH A COLD BIATCH?!"

Well, here's the thing: Rapists don't come with warning signs. And since there's a bat's chance in hell anyone will punish the rapist if a woman is raped (never mind that nobody tries to prevent the rape in the first place), what other option is there? If you chat me up on a bus and I chat back, guess who gets blamed if you rape me? It ain't you, bud.

But hey, congrats on supporting a system where 94% of  actual literal rapes, according to the FBI, are never reported because of that exact mentality.
2013-01-19 04:01:27 PM
2 votes:

Pincy: Show me the statistics that show that men are anywhere close to women in being sexually harassed and then we'll talk.


Does family court count? Seriously, have you ever seen the rampant sexism in family court? Does having your kids, house, car, paycheck, savings and retirement taken away from you count as real or is that just male butthurt? What about a say in educational, developmental and religious matters of your kids or having free weekends to date?

I've got half custody and I came out better than a lot of men I've known. The odds were greatly against me even getting half custody.

It took someone with two previous cases of CPS taking her older kid away, a court record for threatening to kill her own child, and a very long history of refusing to take care of her mental health just to get half. Meanwhile I've got a spotless record with nothing but a couple speeding tickets and no history of threatening to kill kids or the like. She's put our son in the hospital four times in a year and a half through neglect.

I'm not trolling, I'm being quite sincere, sexism is sexism. It's hard for me to take someone seriously for complaining about being hit on too often when men get their kids and far more taken away just for being men.
2013-01-19 03:09:11 PM
2 votes:
The woman's writing and attitude is PROOF of why women are often inferior and are treated differently.
2013-01-19 02:33:48 PM
2 votes:
So why do women date these a$$holes?  You whine and biatch that you don't want to be treated like this, then you ignore the guys that treat you properly and date the pond scum.  Until you've resolved that, STFU.
2013-01-19 02:31:17 PM
2 votes:

Arthur Jumbles: Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.


Imagine a fat, mustachioed, smells-like-cigarettes-and-Doritos, sweaty 20 year old woman attempting to grope you, where there's no escape, and she is definitely stronger than you.

Still the stuff of fantasies?
2013-01-19 02:22:53 PM
2 votes:

douchebag/hater: shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.

You, kind woman, are missing the point and that point is this:

SOME men are jerks, SOME MEN. NOT 'most men'. NOT a 'majority of men. NOT EVEN a substantial minority of men.

You and the writer need to get a grip. The small coterie of guys that are pigs in public is a fact of life and for YOU to get all butthurt over a tiny percentage of men with poor social skills shows that you've learned nothing about life in however many years you've been around.

As for dragging a hypothetical daughter into the discuss is a move worthy of every feminist and liberal hack around right up to Barack Obama.

'It's for the children'. What bull shiat.

If YOU aren't raising your daughter to be alert and aware and able to defend herself, if need be, makes YOU a shiatty mom.

Look at the world the way it is, NOT the way you wish/want it to be.

Farking allah, women (and men) like you are boring and self-centered.


Here's the deal.  Small minority of men doing this, whatever, I don't care how many there are cruising around like this.  The percentage doesn't matter.  There are enough that it is noticeable.  Okay?

The problem with it is that, instead of all the other men who aren't like that standing up and saying "this is unacceptable, we need to end this," we get reactions like this thread, which churns with responses like:

-Wahh I'm overly defensive cuz I'm a man and don't get it so the article must be directly talking about meee but I'm not like that so it's wrooong!!1
-It must be your fault for being so attractive!!1
-It is what it is, deal with it.

These kinds of responses basically imply that, because you are excusing the behavior, you are accepting of the behavior.  And you can't really spin it any other way.  Sure, you may not be actively participating, but you're still, at the very least, turning a blind eye.  In reality, with responses like these, you're helping to perpetrate it, because this teeny tiny minority of assholes feels like and knows they can get away with it.  Because society grudgingly accepts their existence.  Because it is what it is, right?

By the way, that's why women have to be careful and think most men are pigs until they get to know them.  The assholes aren't cruising around with badges that say "I'M IN THAT TEENY TINY MINORITY OF JERKFACES YOU SHOULD LOOK OUT FOR."  It doesn't matter how many of them are out there, bro.  Teeny tiny minority like you're preaching or not.  When people finally get over themselves, when they finally stop saying shiat like "w/e I'M not one of those guys, how dare you" and "It is what it is, w/e" and "well it must be YOUR fault," women can stop having to worry like that.
2013-01-19 02:02:45 PM
2 votes:
TFA: Ask your female friends, if you have any, if they've ever walked home late at night with a key pushed through their knuckles, just in case...

By the way, don't do that. It's actually more dangerous to you than to the other guy. Even if you do it "properly," when you punch someone the key will just disappear back behind your fingers, having done no significant harm to either party. If you do it improperly, the key will be driven back into the soft parts of your hand, which not only hurts you more than your assailant, it also hurts you in ways that make you less able to fight back. Depending on how you use your hands in everyday life, the repercussions of this kind of injury may last a lot longer than the immediate consequences of the fight.

If you don't have a few years of spare time on hand to train with this sort of thing, then the best way to use keys as a weapon is to just hold the whole keyring in your fist, like a roll of quarters, and punch. The weight of the keys will add some force to your punch, the rigid object in your hand will help brace your fingers against the impact, and it's hard to get this wrong in a heated situation.
2013-01-19 02:00:10 PM
2 votes:

Pincy: Men never think that there is a possibility of being raped by a woman. For women, it is a possibility. Doesn't mean it is going to happen, but it is a possibility. Depending on the circumstances, that possibility may be very small or much greater. The point is that men don't have to live with that constant fear and thus how we view "attention" from women is different from how women view "attention" from men.

The sooner we men can admit that the better.


For men, avoiding rape means staying out of prison where Big Bubba ogles your junk and keeps saying how he'd like to crack open yer butt. For women, the chances are much higher that Big Bubba could be anywhere -- standing behind them in the checkout line at Target, at the bus stop, in the library, stalking them through the parking lot, etc. He might be ugly or good-looking, short or tall, scrawny or buff.

When somebody treats you like prey, that threatening behavior kicks off the flight or fight response. It doesn't have to be a genuine threat. It just needs to be perceived by the victim as a threat. Women, unfortunately, run into more situations in which they have to "check the database" to evaluate threats to their person and it's usually in situations that men wouldn't imagine might contain any threat. To treat every encounter as a "100% safe until proven wrong" situation would be foolish -- and dangerous. Sadly, because of the bad apples out there, women have to stay in some level of self-preservation mode all the time. A lot of men can't imagine living in that mode, but for women, it's the norm.
2013-01-19 01:54:46 PM
2 votes:

Bored Horde: You're only discussing half of the study you're citing. Half of it was opposite-sex approaches - women approaching men and men approaching women. What you're not discussing is when the attractive woman approached women or the man approached men. In all cases, people felt uncomfortable being approached by the man, because of the implicit unsafety of a man approaching you for sex. Both men and women were more receptive to being approached by a random woman for sex, because they felt safer. Overt sexual attention from a man carries an implicit threat that overt sexual attention from a woman doesn't convey. That right there - that's rape culture.


A young heterosexual man feeling uncomfortable about being hit upon by a homosexual man is not feeling uncomfortable because he thinks the gay guy is going to rape him..... it's because he's not attracted to the man. He'd feel the same way if an unattractive grandmother hit on him too.
2013-01-19 01:38:36 PM
2 votes:
Reminds me of this comment by Richard Dawkins, regarding Rebecca Watson:

"The man in the elevator didn't physically touch her, didn't attempt to bar her way out of the elevator, didn't even use foul language at her. He spoke some words to her. Just words. She no doubt replied with words. That was that. Words. Only words, and apparently quite polite words at that....Rebecca's feeling that the man's proposition was 'creepy' was her own interpretation of his behavior, presumably not his. She was probably offended to about the same extent as I am offended if a man gets into an elevator with me chewing gum. But he does me no physical damage and I simply grin and bear it until either I or he gets out of the elevator. It would be different if he physically attacked me."

The problem is that some people think the world would be a better place if words were more important than deeds, simply because it's easier to speak words than perform deeds. These people have attained sufficient political power to transform the system into one in which words are, in fact, treated by the law as more important than deeds, to the degree than even deeds like rape and murder can be excused if the magic words "I know that was wrong, and I apologize" are uttered by the criminal, while dissenting opinions are met with the "social justice" of permanent exile, if not "morally justified homicide."
2013-01-19 01:34:51 PM
2 votes:

Smock Pot: I don't know why women keep trying to tell men what it's like, because men are never going to get it. Ever. No matter what a woman says about this, no matter how many analogies she makes, no matter how she says it, men will respond with... pretty much everything in this thread. They will continue to act like untrained dogs around women they want to fark and shiat all over women they deem too old or too ugly to fark.


"The only thing worse than a bad looking man is a bad looking man with no money." -- Janet Jackson
2013-01-19 01:26:04 PM
2 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: WhippingBoy: Polyhazard: That's what's baffling to me. It almost seems like certain dudes simply can't stomach to idea of discussing a woman's experience without making it about making sure there's "equal time" for talking about men. What, exactly, in this article, is giving people the idea that this is about saying men don't matter?

People talk about what's most important to them and what concerns them.

It doesn't help the conversation and derails it.

"Let's talk about the fear and humiliation most women live with when they are stalked and shamed in public for amusement by guys who think its no big deal."

"Well, let's not forget that guys are sometimes targeted too!"

See? Not helpful, and does not add to the conversation.


Actually, let me rephrase that. It adds to the conversation in that one has to ask why anyone is targeted for sexual harassment. The gender identity or sex of the person who is being harassed is irrelevant in my opinion; it's the behavior of the people doing the harassing.

Sexual harassment is a privacy issue. I like to maintain my right to peacefully go about my business without other intruding into my sexual behaviors.

For others it may be acceptable for strangers or mere acquaintances to insert their attentions into your sex life, but for many people, it's a violation of privacy.
2013-01-19 01:21:41 PM
2 votes:

WhippingBoy: Polyhazard: WhippingBoy: If I say "getting groped is no big deal", it's because I honestly feel that getting groped is no big deal (e.g. I'm not condoning the behaviour or writing it off as "boys will be boys", it's just that in my world, it truly is no big deal).

When you say that, are you saying "It's no big deal when I get groped," or are you saying "groping shouldn't be a big deal for anyone?" And if it's the latter, what follows, exactly? That people shouldn't feel shy about groping others? Or that people shouldn't complain that they are groped?

If this woman were to come around to your way of thinking, how would her behavior change? Would she just chuckle the next time she gets grabbed on the train? And if I see a butt that needs grabbing on the next elevator, should I or should I not consider that person's personal bodily autonomy before I go for it?

I'm saying that I feel I don't deserve to be vilified because my emotional response to getting groped (or hearing about someone getting groped) is different than someone else's so I'm not making this The Most Important Thing Ever. I'm certainly not advocating that "groping" be tolerated.


You don't deserve to be vilified for your emotional response.... but that is precisely what has happened to this woman in this very thread from the very beginning. Your initial "outrage for blog hits" comment being a small part of that.

There is a very high number of comments in this thread that are all about how the author SHOULD feel about this, and what must be wrong with her for feeling otherwise.
2013-01-19 01:16:29 PM
2 votes:

WhippingBoy: Polyhazard: That's what's baffling to me. It almost seems like certain dudes simply can't stomach to idea of discussing a woman's experience without making it about making sure there's "equal time" for talking about men. What, exactly, in this article, is giving people the idea that this is about saying men don't matter?

People talk about what's most important to them and what concerns them.


It doesn't help the conversation and derails it.

"Let's talk about the fear and humiliation most women live with when they are stalked and shamed in public for amusement by guys who think its no big deal."

"Well, let's not forget that guys are sometimes targeted too!"

See? Not helpful, and does not add to the conversation.
2013-01-19 01:15:01 PM
2 votes:
While I agree with the premise of the author's point in the article, I believe that she took it too far to actually validate the excellent point she made with her audience. She lost me when she started to talk about "MY rape" and how every woman apparently expects to be raped, at least, in her view of reality. If she would have tried to actually envision what it was actually like the scenario she wanted people to experience, then maybe she should have also considered the basic premise of human attraction and sexuality. The fact is that men and women are simply not wired the same way by design and thus behavior is not influenced by societal norms alone.
2013-01-19 12:55:13 PM
2 votes:

Polyhazard: Thanks for the advice, I guess... but could you please give it without being disingenuous and minimizing the problem women are complaining about here? Don't you think that's a bit insulting?


It is insulting to do, yeah.

It's also one of the reasons (again, replying to your earlier comment) why some men get frustrated when some topics are brought up: Because it sometimes feels like their experiences, or the inequalities and unfairness they see (among others, aforementioned imbalance when it comes to the justice system with regard to female rapists, statutory or otherwise), are being minimized, or people are being disingenuous when replying to them, or discussing them. Not that "There are a lot of things we need to fix, some things other than that may have to get first", but sometimes what feels like outright dismissal. Like their experiences, or their encounters, do not matter and should never be considered. And it IS insulting.

Again, whether this is rational or not for some people to feel that their concerns are being dismissed is not for me to judge, but that IS where a good chunk of the frustration is coming from.

/In my opinion.
//I am not psychic, mind, so I could very well be wrong.
2013-01-19 12:52:27 PM
2 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: toomuchmarisa: [img685.imageshack.us image 300x391]

Jesus farking christ I am SO TIRED of women complaining all the time about everything. If you're an attractive woman you are like a celebrity, and celebrities have to deal with getting harassed in public. Period. On the other hand, you are also A FARKING CELEBRITY, which has a plethora of perks.

This is how life goes, there are upsides and downsides to everything. Incessantly complaining about the negative aspects, especially while ignoring the positives, just makes you look like a whiny, spoiled, and naive 12 year old. Grow the fark up.

/life is hard
//welcome to the real world
///rich white people problems ftl

Feminists like Pincy ensure women have no challenges in life, and hence no reason to grow up. At least until it is too late. Feminism's gift to women is a poisoned chalice.


I take it you are implying that being called a feminist is a bad thing?

And yes, in a perfect world, I don't think women should have to have the "challenge" of trying not to be raped. If that makes me a bad person then so be it.
2013-01-19 12:44:34 PM
2 votes:

Polyhazard: And what, exactly, was your counterpoint? Because I missed it. All I see you saying is "guys have been groped." How is that a counterpoint?


Perspective. As a man, getting groped is no big deal to me. So if I hear an anecdote about a woman getting groped, my own experiences and feelings say "no big deal" and, on an emotional level, I don't see what all the fuss is about. I don't think this makes me a bad person (at least I hope it doesn't).

There seems to be a lot of anger because "I just don't get it". Well... you're right; I don't get it. I've never been a woman, and while I can cognitively understand the fear and frustration that being groped might cause, it just doesn't hit me on an emotional level, because these are emotions that I've never had to deal with.

On the other hand, people have no problem telling me how wonderful and problem free my life must be because I'm a man, even though they themselves have absolutely no clue what being a man is like. To top it off, I'm supposed to feel ashamed if I even mention that I have problems and issues of my own to deal with.

I apologize if my comments have offended anyone; my intent was sincere (but perhaps misguided); I'm just trying to keep things honest...
2013-01-19 12:38:22 PM
2 votes:

lordjupiter: Polyhazard: Target Builder: ITT: Guys who would be cool with watching their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc be harassed by a group of drunk men and would tell their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc that if they don't want to be treated that way they should stop dressing like sluts and expecting to get free stuff because of how they look.

I've actually tried this tactic before (though only in broad daylight.) Some dude starts harassing you on street, turn around, look them dead in the eye and say "what would you do if someone was doing this to your mother right now?"

It really shocks them, mostly because they do it in the first place because they expect no response. And I did get a couple of "shut up biatch" comments, but more than one apology. I kinda hope it sticks with some of these guys for next time.


And the one time you piss off some psycho with mommy issues, who interprets confrontation and eye contact viscerally in the lower brain as a dog might, since he's already acting based on his more primitive instincts and hormones, you're going to be in deep shiat if you're not ready to defend yourself.

My wife is a lot like you, and she's highly trained in self-defense. But I know that's not a guarantee, or a license to go around snapping "you got a problem?!" at strangers whose gazes linger a bit longer than is comfortable. She doesn't do that as much as she did in her 20s, which is when women really seem to get fed up with it and start looking to complain about it or challenge it.

What's wrong with ignoring it and getting out of there? Men have to make this decision all the time, too. If a guy whips around to some group of guys calling him a "fa%%ot" or something, and tries to "teach them a lesson" by "shocking" them with some verbal challenge (however rational), he KNOWS he'd better be prepared to be in a fight and maybe get knifed or shot. Especially if you pull this shiat in the city streets, where it's most likely to happen.

I hope wo ...


I think the bigger point here is that it's not up to women to teach men how to behave, it's up to men.
2013-01-19 12:37:23 PM
2 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: A successful false rape accusation is just as bad as a rape and so the fear is just as legitimate.


Hahahaha no. Try again, with a little less butthurt this time.
2013-01-19 12:35:07 PM
2 votes:

Polyhazard: Target Builder: ITT: Guys who would be cool with watching their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc be harassed by a group of drunk men and would tell their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc that if they don't want to be treated that way they should stop dressing like sluts and expecting to get free stuff because of how they look.

I've actually tried this tactic before (though only in broad daylight.) Some dude starts harassing you on street, turn around, look them dead in the eye and say "what would you do if someone was doing this to your mother right now?"

It really shocks them, mostly because they do it in the first place because they expect no response. And I did get a couple of "shut up biatch" comments, but more than one apology. I kinda hope it sticks with some of these guys for next time.



And the one time you piss off some psycho with mommy issues, who interprets confrontation and eye contact viscerally in the lower brain as a dog might, since he's already acting based on his more primitive instincts and hormones, you're going to be in deep shiat if you're not ready to defend yourself.

My wife is a lot like you, and she's highly trained in self-defense. But I know that's not a guarantee, or a license to go around snapping "you got a problem?!" at strangers whose gazes linger a bit longer than is comfortable. She doesn't do that as much as she did in her 20s, which is when women really seem to get fed up with it and start looking to complain about it or challenge it.

What's wrong with ignoring it and getting out of there? Men have to make this decision all the time, too. If a guy whips around to some group of guys calling him a "fa%%ot" or something, and tries to "teach them a lesson" by "shocking" them with some verbal challenge (however rational), he KNOWS he'd better be prepared to be in a fight and maybe get knifed or shot. Especially if you pull this shiat in the city streets, where it's most likely to happen.

I hope women understand this is how it works for men, and some men don't care that you're female and will treat you like men treat each other, meaning they will try to beat the shiat out of you. Many young women get their boyfriends into fights because they lip off to assholes who are verbally broadcasting their need for cheap thrills of some sort, and the females don't understand that the vast majority of the time the men will go after the men in the other group, because that's how it is in nature and because they perceive the male to be the bigger threat that must be dealt with first ("control your biatch" mentality).

In other words, be careful because your tactic may backfire one day. If you want equality on the streets, you may get it. I hope you're a badass, and I hope they're not armed.
2013-01-19 12:35:01 PM
2 votes:

Polyhazard: WhippingBoy: TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.

That's right. Men have no issues or problems of their own, and should feel ashamed for suggesting that they do. The life of every man is filled with constant wine (I mean "whine" - amirite??) and roses.

Don't be (pretend to) be stupid. No one is saying guys don't have problems. But you have to wonder why a thread about a woman trying to get men to see things from her point of view devolves into an instant wail-fest about the shiat men have to deal with, as if placing it on a scale will somehow erase the point this woman was making about her own experience.


Well, it's not like rationally pointing out that filtering out "losers" who fail their tests, which can only be passed by having psychic and/or precognitive superpowers, has convinced anyone that they're really selecting for men who will lie to them, and probably go on to lie to them about remaining faithful while they bang all the other women running up to get a piece of the man that some other woman thought was relationship material.

/drama and misogyny is what people want, not reason
//anonymous, and FARK, delivers
2013-01-19 12:34:32 PM
2 votes:
I see Fark wasted absolutely zero time in blaming the author for being harassed. Yeah, you all really can fark off and EABOD.

/I wonder what your wives would say
//oh wait...
2013-01-19 12:31:06 PM
2 votes:
img685.imageshack.us

Jesus farking christ I am SO TIRED of women complaining all the time about everything. If you're an attractive woman you are like a celebrity, and celebrities have to deal with getting harassed in public. Period. On the other hand, you are also A FARKING CELEBRITY, which has a plethora of perks.

This is how life goes, there are upsides and downsides to everything. Incessantly complaining about the negative aspects, especially while ignoring the positives, just makes you look like a whiny, spoiled, and naive 12 year old. Grow the fark up.

/life is hard
//welcome to the real world
///rich white people problems ftl
2013-01-19 12:23:19 PM
2 votes:

Polyhazard: WhippingBoy: TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.

That's right. Men have no issues or problems of their own, and should feel ashamed for suggesting that they do. The life of every man is filled with constant wine (I mean "whine" - amirite??) and roses.

Don't be (pretend to) be stupid. No one is saying guys don't have problems. But you have to wonder why a thread about a woman trying to get men to see things from her point of view devolves into an instant wail-fest about the shiat men have to deal with, as if placing it on a scale will somehow erase the point this woman was making about her own experience.


BINGO!
2013-01-19 12:22:34 PM
2 votes:

Polyhazard: Target Builder: ITT: Guys who would be cool with watching their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc be harassed by a group of drunk men and would tell their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc that if they don't want to be treated that way they should stop dressing like sluts and expecting to get free stuff because of how they look.

I've actually tried this tactic before (though only in broad daylight.) Some dude starts harassing you on street, turn around, look them dead in the eye and say "what would you do if someone was doing this to your mother right now?"

It really shocks them, mostly because they do it in the first place because they expect no response. And I did get a couple of "shut up biatch" comments, but more than one apology. I kinda hope it sticks with some of these guys for next time.


Wow, congrats for standing up. Takes a lot more guts than most people have. I hope it makes a difference, even a small one.
2013-01-19 12:20:30 PM
2 votes:
I have been on Fark for almost 6 years now, and although I don't comment on things, I'm on here daily, reading articles and comments.

After reading the comments in this article, I'm done with this site.

I can't believe I was a (very small) part of this community.

I am disgusted, to the point of being physically sickened, by the majority of comments on this article.

For those of you who still have the stomach to stay and stand up for what's right against these 'people', thank you, but I just can't anymore.
2013-01-19 12:18:38 PM
2 votes:
Settle in, men; misandry is here to stay for a while.

For at least the next several generations there will be some women who want to make up for thousands of years of real (but mostly imagined) male oppression. Most will just be pissed off temporarily, and probably justifiably so, but a few will be sincere, maniacal (sorry, 'womaniacal') outrage queens with political influence.
2013-01-19 12:18:13 PM
2 votes:
I thought that as a lazy Saturday morning thread, we'd have more a focus on taco's and magic buttons and a lot less straight out misogyny. Guess a lot of frustrated dudes are posting today.
2013-01-19 12:12:41 PM
2 votes:

miscreant: WhippingBoy: You're cherry picking comments in order to rationalize your feelings of "outrage".
Why else would you give credence to the opinion of a single anonymous poster on the internet?

She doesn't have to cherry pick comments. There are a shiatload of comments in this thread to find the "misogynistic troglodytes" as you tried to ironically call them. Sad thing is, it's not ironic. And you're one of the worst offenders by far. Glad you gave yourself your own farkie for me.


I'm sorry you feel that way. I realize that my posts are rather bumbling and inarticulate, but I'm sincerely trying to make an honest, valid, and fair point. Could you please give me an example of where you felt I was being a "misogynistic troglodyte"? (This is a sincere request, I'm not trying to be "ironic" or trick you). I'd like to re-examine it, and will certainly agree with you if I think it's warranted.
2013-01-19 12:10:29 PM
2 votes:
ITT: Guys who would be cool with watching their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc be harassed by a group of drunk men and would tell their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc that if they don't want to be treated that way they should stop dressing like sluts and expecting to get free stuff because of how they look.
2013-01-19 12:09:12 PM
2 votes:
Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.
2013-01-19 12:08:28 PM
2 votes:

WhippingBoy: While I sympathize somewhat, I have a couple of problems with articles like this:

1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men
2. There's a underlying belief that "men" (in general) condone these types of actions
3. The "outrage" seems to be for the express purpose of generating blog hits

There's jerks in life; we encounter them every day. To attribute an given individual's jerky behaviour to any conveniently defined "group" is intellectually dishonest. If I were to put blinders on and conveniently ignore those instances where persons of my gender were jerks to me (and instead focused only on those instances where person of the opposite gender were jerks to me), I could become a social justice crusader.


Stop being rational on Fark.

That kind of behavior isn't looked upon very kindly 'round these parts.
2013-01-19 12:00:47 PM
2 votes:

tirob: I do not recall my ever uttering any of the kinds of things the writer mentions to any woman or girl anywhere, at any time, nor do I recall any of my buddies ever having done so.

A good bit of what the writer describes in TFA would be classified as disorderly conduct here. May I suggest, ladies, that you all look up the relevant statutes where you are and that, if you are sufficiently alarmed by this kind of thing, you call a cop the next time it happens.

/I sense that the writer is bragging just a little bit....


Actually, what she can do is select a different venue. One that is not patronized by the type of men she described.

Pro-tip 1: if you go to a dive bar, you are going to run into people who go to dive bars.
Pro-tip 2: if you go to a meat market bar/club, expect to get "looked at" by people looking to pick up a piece of meat as you just put yourself into the display case.

Bottom line is, take responsibility for your own actions and choices.
2013-01-19 11:48:15 AM
2 votes:

Parmenius: I have  never treated women -or anyone else- as depicted in tfa, but I've certainly had to deal with the effects  of their foolishness.  And, with rare exceptions, if someone is behaving with all the civility of a gutter snipe it is a man doing it.  I really dislike having to prove that those jackasses don't represent my gender, and threads like this do not help.


Neither have we, you idiot. Maybe, just maybe, that is why we get a tad fed up with constantly being accused of it.
2013-01-19 11:48:00 AM
2 votes:
A female acquaintance of mine wanted me to take her out to a local gay bar. When I asked why, she said, "So you can see what it's like being flirted with by people you don't want to have sex with."

I replied, "How about I *not* go to the gay bar, so I don't give any of the guys the impression that I'm looking for a one night stand."

/she never spoke to me again
//and died at the hands of her abusive boyfriend a year ago
2013-01-19 11:47:56 AM
2 votes:
ITT: A whole bunch of Farkers I thought were cool turn out to be troglodytes.
Screw this. It's saturday. I'm gonna get drunk and not shout at random women.
2013-01-19 11:44:03 AM
2 votes:
Also, thanks to some helpful Farkers in the thread for helping me understand that yoga pants are now included in the set of things I can't wear unless I want to be Asking For It.

Jeezus... Some of you are embarrassing.
2013-01-19 11:41:12 AM
2 votes:

The Voice of Doom: quickdraw
ok - so one chick was rude, the woman in your office should be brought up on harassment charges and yes there are bullies in the world. Life isnt fair. But what does any of that have to do with the writer's concerns? She isnt writing about the difficulties of being a short guy. You can do that on your blog if you want.

One rule of essay writing I learned in school: if you've several arguments for your position, put the strongest one or the one that you want to stick with people at the end.
Look at the last paragraph of that article, the one mentioning rape culture and Ask your female friends, if you have any, if they've ever..
followed by a list of things that you don't even have to ask female friends about, because even as a guy built like an NFL linesman you've done those things or at least had them on your mind.
That's the thing that will stick the most with people, be the aftertaste, when they come back here after reading the article.

It's pretty obvious to me where those comments coming from if one focuses on the last paragraph - the listed things might be worse for but they're not unique to being a woman.
No wonder that ending an article about "seeing things from the other side" with something like that is rubbing some people the other way.


I would agree with you except these are the same exact comments that come up every time an article like this is linked. You get whole posse' of guys loaded with false equivocations - whining about how tough men have it and how not all men are bad.

Actually though I am much heartened by the way Fark has evolved over the years. It used to be those kinds "Help I'm a white male being oppressed by women who dont like to be harassed" comments were 90% of a thread. Now they are only 60%.

Progress!
2013-01-19 11:39:09 AM
2 votes:

dopekitty74: My opinion as a formerly not-bad looking chick with a great rack is that this lady needs to lighten the hell up. I went from wolf whistles and catcalls to people i don't know driving by and making fun of me for being fat. I'd much rather the wolf whistles and nice rack comments. At least those made me feel good about my body.

Also needs to stop being so damned paranoid. I used to live in Edmonton, AB, and walked home from work at night without all these paranoid delusions about people waiting in the shadows to rape me. I was more worried about the whores who would try to attack me if i didn't give them a cigarette


really? you needed a bunch of mouth breathers yelling out of cars to make you feel good about your body? you make me embarrassed to be a fellow Albertan. Jesus.

It isn't just the cat calls and wolf whistles. it's walking down the street with one guy trailing you 10 feet behind, while his buddies cruise beside you in the car... as you try to figure out which house looks safe enough to run to. \this was when i was 14.
it's crying into your pillow because the guy you didn't want to fark just finished...but you were stupid enough to believe the line "it's ok, we'll just cuddle..."
it's standing in line at the farking SUBWAY sandwich shop while the guy behind you trails his finger down your ass. You turn to glare, and he licks his lips and says he'd rather eat you...

I am STILL not done with this crap. 43, and i still have to put up with guys feeling like it's ok to do this...

don't you understand that that kind of behaviour, and your attitude about it, that perpetuates the behaviour? Would you want your daughter to have to be subjected to it? i know i don't want mine to be.

you know what's really sickening? that this is in Canada. and the Canadian "rape culture" is a tiny fraction of what it is in the States. I can only imagine what it is like for women in the States, where there is 30 times the number of reported rapes, compared to here. So please... just because YOU never got raped after being stupid enough to walk down a deserted street at night, doesn't mean we are all wrong, and that you were not in legitimate danger.
2013-01-19 11:37:06 AM
2 votes:

Whodat: The author sounds like a narcissist.


And you sound like a clueless ass.

I love threads like this. They're such good asshole bait. As the troglodytes come slithering out, I can give the ignore button a good workout, and for the next few months the threads I follow become relatively idiot-free.

And I get a few folks worth adding to the favorites list as a bonus. Win/Win!
2013-01-19 11:33:15 AM
2 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."

Because it is dangerous to do so.

Uh-huh. Every guy in the world is just waiting to beat the shiat out of women. I guess women are just that weak. No wonder they seek out violent, beefy men.

Seriously? Cant you do better than that? Its like watching somebody box an imaginary opponent.

Ok fine Ill indulge you. This is how it works. Every person we come across has the potential to be friend or foe. When out in a setting where we could be physically vulnerable (no matter who you are) we have to size up people we meet. If a drunk obnoxious idiot is saying rude things to you its generally not wise to call them on it or insult them.

If the person may not be drunk but is larger than you, or is driving a vehicle, or holding something that looks like they might use it as a weapon then you have to think very carefully before you respond to them.

If they are a boss or coworker you have to consider whether it is worth losing your job over.

What is it about the concept of "power deferential" that you dont get?

Then any reaction she has, including the one she took -- walking down the street -- is just as much of a threat. It's still a rebuke.

I'm 6' tall and 130 pounds. I have no chest. I *will* get my ass kicked in a fight. Yet I've never gotten into one in all of my years, and have still managed to stand up for myself when people say rude things to me. Sometimes it's clear that the goal is violence, so I just walk away -- but not everyone who is rude is going to be violent as well.

That's a cop-out.


And so what you are using as your closing argument is that you, as a 6' tall man, feel safe confronting rude behavior but women dont' and so we should all behave like 6' men do?
2013-01-19 11:27:07 AM
2 votes:
non-ironic use of "patriarchy" = whining entitled biatch who has no idea how much progress has been made.

i don't know how many times i've read this exact same article.

you're sad that what you wear effects how people treat you? oh boo farking hoo. that's true for everyone, it's just that young women are coddled and their victimhood complex is respected and encouraged as a way to further demean them.

everytime i hear some bullshiat "switch the pronouns" argument by someone purporting to be in the service of feminism, I have the very real and inescapable feeling that they have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to "equality" among the "genders".

mandatory draft of all fighting age females at the exclusion of males, the inequity and oppression of history must be reversed!! onward patriot! forward soviet!
2013-01-19 11:26:13 AM
2 votes:
As long as those same "creeper" guys are the ones more likely to get rewarded with sex, it is going to be harder for "nice guys" to empathize with your problem.

All men are rapists, all women are whores, let's all be robots, the robolution comes!
2013-01-19 11:15:09 AM
2 votes:
I'm not going to the guys in the article. I will ask: when did it become ok for girls to wear just tights to work instead of pants? Jesus Christ it's incredibly distracting. These things leave nothing to the imagination.

/I guess it's my fault for looking
//though I have no idea how I can physically stop myself from looking
2013-01-19 11:11:15 AM
2 votes:

quickdraw:
So you go into every thread about a serious issue of widespread social injustice to complain about how it sucks to be you because youre a short white guy with a job? Your life sucks because you are ridiculously self-obsesse ...


I notice from your profile that you are a liberal. As such, you think all white males have it easy, and everybody else in the world is some sort of brave hero fighting insurmountable odds. Liberals really see the world in such ridiculous terms.
2013-01-19 11:10:51 AM
2 votes:
I never in my life have given unwanted attention to a woman wether she was attractive or not. If I see men do it in my prescence I call them out as the bullies that they are because I am big enough to stand up to them, hate bullies in all forms and in fact take pleasure in publicly humiliating them, and find this bad behaviour by some men makes it much harder for a nice, well mannered person like myself to approach women either irl or on a dating site.

That being said, this article is pretty much full of misandry and was written solely for feminist man-haters like the disgusting examples we have heard barking in this thread. Ladies, you are making things worse for yourselves by saying stupid things like "you're a man and therefore you cannot understand". You really can't tell another human being they are incapable of insight or empathy due to gender, you are the one incapable of empathy at this point but maybe if you question yourself on occasion instead of narcissitically knowing you are always right you may become wiser.

Short guy explaining how you don't have short man syndrome and then bragging about how many tall guys' wives you've slept with... you have short man syndrome. I'm sorry you feel the way you do but the problem isn't related to size, it's related to perception. You are no less a man than me because you are shorter than me but if other people try and make you feel thusly they are bullies and you should give them a good hard knee in the groin.
2013-01-19 11:06:09 AM
2 votes:

WhippingBoy: quickdraw: Where in the article does it say "All men are rapists?" I'll tell you. No where. The article describes her experiences of being harrassed.  Its not like shes advocating castration. You can put your lance down. The male population doesnt need your white-knighting.

Oh ffs, are you seriously saying that the "all men are potential rapists" undertone is absent from the article?


Yes I am. And that you are reading that into it says much more about you than it does about her.
2013-01-19 11:04:47 AM
2 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."


Because it is dangerous to do so.
2013-01-19 11:04:34 AM
2 votes:
Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other. It is not always because men are sexist that they do this, it is often because they have an in-group in which that sort of behaviour towards each other is normal and they simply extend that behaviour to others.

When men do it to other men they get to hear that they should just suck it up. If they do it to a woman they get complaints about sexism. Just remember this womenfolk: you do not want to be treated the way men treat each other. That would be how you get treated now and then some.
2013-01-19 11:04:09 AM
2 votes:
Men are what they are and all of these guys are that AND stupid clowns.

The sooner women realize that all men share some traits and some men take it too far, you're going to be very unhappy.

In other news no one ever blames mothers for raising them like that in the first place.

I know better because that's how I was raised. My Mom didn't tolerate any kind of that talk. not that I did, she would kill me and I knew that.

We're typically picky about bodies and women are typically picky about how much money men make. We all know no woman would ever vocally would return up her nose to a guy with the wrong clothes or shoes or car.

Scumbags are scumbags.
2013-01-19 10:57:43 AM
2 votes:
My opinion as a formerly not-bad looking chick with a great rack is that this lady needs to lighten the hell up. I went from wolf whistles and catcalls to people i don't know driving by and making fun of me for being fat. I'd much rather the wolf whistles and nice rack comments. At least those made me feel good about my body.

Also needs to stop being so damned paranoid. I used to live in Edmonton, AB, and walked home from work at night without all these paranoid delusions about people waiting in the shadows to rape me. I was more worried about the whores who would try to attack me if i didn't give them a cigarette
2013-01-19 10:56:37 AM
2 votes:

quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: I'm defending "men" in general.

Why?

Why? I dunno... because there just might be some men out there who are decent human beings?

Nowhere in that article does it imply there are no good men. FFS just because a women says lots of men act like assholes doesnt mean all men do. If I said the Olive Garden sucks would you feel the need to defend all Italian restaurants?

Blacks have to. Why not generic racial-not-specific men?

Blacks have to what? Eat at Olive Garden? Really not sure what youre getting at here...


"just because a non-black says lots of blacks act like assholes doesn't mean all blacks do. if I said blacks suck would you feel the need to defend all blacks?" -- that's where I was going with it. and the reason why i did so is because i'd rather blacks stood up against it, than turned turtle and pretended 'well what someone says about all blacks doesn't pertain to me because i'm an individual' when seeing shiat like that in a public setting. it doens't come across as being an individual, it comes across as agreement, like 'see, even other blacks think blacks are assholes'.

in this case, if men don't stand up for themselves when there is the appearance of painting all men with the 'rapist' brush, then it doesn't come across as dudes being individuals, it comes across as agreement. I'm still probably not saying this right. I apologize. Working two projects this morning without breakfast. i need a BLT but don't want to head to the store.
2013-01-19 10:55:36 AM
2 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Men are graded on their height. Women can control all of the above. Men can not control their height.

So your point is that you are judged on one physical attribute and women are judged on dozens of them - some of which they can control? And your using that to show how mens lives are just the same as womens?

Women can control those 'dozens of things'. Men cannot. Bottom line. Women have it easier than men when it comes to using the softer skills to get what they want. Also bottom line.

Shorter men are screwed in ways the 'nice guys' look at, shake their heads and sigh saying 'there but for the grace of God..' You're right that no, men's lives and women's lives are not the same. But it's not like men don't face their own kinds of harassments, rejections, and attempts by others to overpower them on the daily. Shorter men are going to experience it more than taller men. And, unlike women, they have no social outlets and no social sympathy for fighting against it. Shrug.

I get it yes - it sucks to be a short guy. What does that have to do with never feeling safe when you leave the house just because of your gender? Do people openly mock you for your height as an adult? Do they yell about how youre the perfect height to suck their dick? Because those are the things that happen to short women.

Shorter men can be rendered invisible in the presence of taller men. Women render shorter men invisible in the presence of taller men. Women can subconsciously socially castrate shorter men while in the pursuit of taller men. Is it worse to be openly mocked in words, better to be mocked by actions?

Nobody's blues are the same, but they're still the blues. That's all.


So you go into every thread about a serious issue of widespread social injustice to complain about how it sucks to be you because youre a short white guy with a job? Your life sucks because you are ridiculously self-obsessed - not because you are short.
2013-01-19 10:55:11 AM
2 votes:

WhippingBoy: Here's a fun game: Replace the word "men" in feminist articles with the word "blacks" and see how the article reads.


Here's another fun game:  Try to spot the false equivalency fallacy in WhippingBoy's posts.  Oh...game over.  I win!
2013-01-19 10:52:15 AM
2 votes:

quickdraw: Why wouldnt he tell me if he had been harassed before I met him?


Sexual Assault/harassment for males is generally harder to report and more Than likely under reported. Men may feel less than a man if they report it or feel it'll be ignored by society since "it doesn't happen to men'. Studies show that men are, however, likely to report it to an unknown individual (say a hotline resource) than a loved one for they would fear being judged
2013-01-19 10:48:29 AM
2 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Nobody's blues are the same, but they're still the blues. That's all.


Thank you. This is all I've been trying to say.
2013-01-19 10:48:15 AM
2 votes:
Does it disturb you that we think like this? That we have to think like this?

I do find it disturbing that the author thinks like that. She does not have to. She talks about the things she does to protect herself because she's sure she's hurtling towards her rape moment, then notes that when her rape moment came she didn't get raped.
If rape didn't exist, would she (or anyone at all, male or female) no longer need to concern themselves with assault? Would she stop being afraid of men if they were only capable of beating the crap out of her but not raping her?
As long as she carries the mindset that every man is Schrodinger's rapist (yes, I've read that ridiculous essay, too) then the only acceptable behavior from any man is to pretend they don't see her.
I don't suggest that she, or any woman, should have to put up with unwanted advances or aggressive behavior, or worse, from men. I just don't subscribe to the idea that being convinced she's eventually going to be raped makes all men guilty of causing her to feel that way.
2013-01-19 10:45:03 AM
2 votes:
Here's a fun game: Replace the word "men" in feminist articles with the word "blacks" and see how the article reads.
2013-01-19 10:40:40 AM
2 votes:

quickdraw: Head_Shot: quickdraw: PanicMan: I didn't know Saturday morning was "sexist asshole" time here. Good to know.

Yeah Im gonna mark it on my calendar from now on.

Bored Horde: WhippingBoy: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: DrPainMD: Don't worry DNWPG. If your real-life personality is anything like your Fark personality, they'll leave you alone as soon as they get to know you.

Yea, because the last guy who groped my ass in a crowded subway car wanted to know what I thought of the dual Higgs discovery, you moron.

Do you think that this doesn't happen to men? When I was younger, I had my ass groped (without my consent) a number of times. I imagine that men who are more attractive then me have experienced this even more.

Groping a woman carries the implicit threat of rape in a way that a woman groping a man doesn't. However uncomfortable you felt being groped, remember that women are taught that it's their fault they got groped, that all men are groping raping monsters and it's the woman's fault if they let them get close.

For you, it was the simple act of violation of your body. For women, it's that AND a reminder that their body's positive assets belong to society.

While I agree with you completely you are assuming it was a woman who groped him. However the point still stands that far more women get raped then men and it is a much bigger threat getting your ass grabbed.

The thing is every single woman I know has had to deal with the potential for sexual harassment as an ongoing part of her daily life. And even though I have reached the supposedly "invisible" age I still have to deal with that shiat. And I assure you I am thoroughly average in appearance. OTOH my hubby who is very tall and very handsome has never ever been sexually harassed.

Are you sure he'd tell you if he was?

Why wouldnt he? Were both adults. *shrug*


That's pretty naive.
2013-01-19 10:38:43 AM
2 votes:
Wow, are really greenlighting crappy feminist blogs now??

Your blog sucks.
2013-01-19 10:38:20 AM
2 votes:
Much thanks to my benefactor for the TF subscription!
2013-01-19 10:33:31 AM
2 votes:

Pandar: The "just wait 20 years from now when no one will look at you" comments here seem to be made with a fair amount of indignance and hurt feelings. I get the impression that anyone who would say that has been the man catcalling some woman on the street


Actually, I'm the guy who's gotten laid a whole lot more now than I did years ago because of woman around 40. When I was younger I never ever could have conceived of dating someone more than about a year older than me. Lately I find I'm the one getting asked out far more often and it's almost always by a woman a few years older than me. It's not a bad thing, I met some great women, had a lot of sex and some good friendships come out of things.

I've also got woman as friends who are around that age and have heard more complaints about being invisible than anything else. The hard truth is woman are scared of being invisible and spend billions of dollars every year to avoid it. I'm not defending the guys who are jerks are grope woman's butts, but let's be real and not try to define the exception as the rule. That would be like me thinking all women are cheating liars just because my ex-wife was.

I've also never cat called a woman in my life, it always struck me as a sure way to get a woman to /not/ want to have sex with you.
2013-01-19 10:26:39 AM
2 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Men are graded on their height. Women can control all of the above. Men can not control their height.

So your point is that you are judged on one physical attribute and women are judged on dozens of them - some of which they can control? And your using that to show how mens lives are just the same as womens?

Women can control those 'dozens of things'. Men cannot. Bottom line. Women have it easier than men when it comes to using the softer skills to get what they want. Also bottom line.

Shorter men are screwed in ways the 'nice guys' look at, shake their heads and sigh saying 'there but for the grace of God..' You're right that no, men's lives and women's lives are not the same. But it's not like men don't face their own kinds of harassments, rejections, and attempts by others to overpower them on the daily. Shorter men are going to experience it more than taller men. And, unlike women, they have no social outlets and no social sympathy for fighting against it. Shrug.


I get it yes - it sucks to be a short guy. What does that have to do with never feeling safe when you leave the house just because of your gender? Do people openly mock you for your height as an adult? Do they yell about how youre the perfect height to suck their dick? Because those are the things that happen to short women.
2013-01-19 10:11:25 AM
2 votes:

ElectricPeterTork: Howie Spankowitz: Wow.  Been a Farker for a long time.  Seldom see such near universal mouth-breathing, male douchebaggery so early and often in a thread.  TFA's author was completely reasonable and 90% of the comments from you assclowns is "hurrr get me a sammich durr be glad dudes are even looking at you hurrr she needs to get laid."

So glad I don't have a daughter.

The article lost me with the "Jailbreak the Patriarchy" app.


If you allow something trivial like that to cause you to dismiss a well-articulated and reasonable argument, then you're probably someone who wouldn't understand her point to begin with.
2013-01-19 10:09:45 AM
2 votes:

quickdraw: WhippingBoy: I'm defending "men" in general.

Why?


Why? I dunno... because there just might be some men out there who are decent human beings?
2013-01-19 10:08:06 AM
2 votes:
She seems to think she is more attractive than she really is, I can tell she used to be overweight and now is a cute chubby, but those complexes that develop during the fat years tend to run deep through an ex fatties life.  So while they want to be the cheerleader, they become pseudo hipsters and even worse, bloggers.   And no man is then good looking enough for them, and they hate the really pretty girls.

Here are some bits from her other ramblings, cause you know they never seen a white chick in India, and there are no hot women in Spain which forces Spaniards to hit on sandal wearing hostel dwellers.

" Sometimes, I go to countries where the presence of a wandering single white woman is an attraction in and of itself. There are probably at least a hundred Indians with surreptitious cell phone pictures of me; apparently I was just that photogenic ."


"He approached me, and said something in Catalan I didn't understand. I responded in Spanish, telling him to have a good night, and waving him away. For a block, he hovered just a few feet over my shoulder. He approached again, lightly grabbing my elbow. Though the precise language of his proposition was lost on me, the gist was clear: American girls all have a price, what was mine? "



grassroots.groupon.com

www.womensadventuremagazine.com
2013-01-19 10:05:32 AM
2 votes:

SnarfVader: WhippingBoy: Smock Pot: I don't know why women keep trying to tell men what it's like, because men are never going to get it. Ever. No matter what a woman says about this, no matter how many analogies she makes, no matter how she says it, men will respond with... pretty much everything in this thread. They will continue to act like untrained dogs around women they want to fark and shiat all over women they deem too old or too ugly to fark.

Yep, this is true.

No, it's bullshiat. Not all men are like that, especially not the ones like me who have daughters they want to see succeed. Quit lumping us all together.


There are two options here:

Women and men together deem that not all men are aholes, and not all women are attention grabbing whores, and that there is some truth in the complaints on both sides

OR

We get really angry and demonize everyone on the other side.

I bet I know which one fark is going to go with this morning, how about you?
2013-01-19 10:05:10 AM
2 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: Lenny_da_Hog: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: ExperianScaresCthulhu:

I see what you're saying, and agree with it. Again, leads back to the ho doth protest too much. She's not really, she's bragging. See also: hos who make a point of pointing out their BMI when it's on the low end.

We raise our daughters to be doctors, lawyers, and citizens, but then some people treat these women like walking sex toys, and when the young women point this out because they discover how frightening and frustrating it gets, they can't POSSIBLY be serious.

Gee, with women spending billions and billions of dollars on clothing, hair styling, salons, manicures, pedicures, make-up, fashion magazines, Cosmo, etc., etc., to compete with each other, I don't understand why,

The problem is perpetuated by women.

This is a case of people outside of the bell curve realizing they were born on the wrong planet. It's like an atheist wondering why religious people are religious.

Over and over again, bad behavior is being excused away, this time its women's fault for the fashion industry, because only the right shade of toenail polish can prevent harassment.


It's not being explained away. It's a fact of culture that isn't going to change no matter how much you biatch about it. Women compete with each other on the basis of sexual attraction, and enjoy doing it. A loud few are offended by that same behavior, but even in the 60s and 70s when this conversation was at its peak, women were still competing with clothing and make-up.

Religionists drive me up a wall. They're always coming to my door and telling me what an asshole I am for not being them. They infiltrate schools, politics, and anywhere else they can slime through the cracks.

It's the way the world is. You're not going to change it, any more than I'm going to change the minds of people who think they're going to live forever in the clouds. The best you're going to be able to do is to find and hang out with people who share your own values.
2013-01-19 10:02:50 AM
2 votes:

ReverendJasen: WhippingBoy: Why is it that men are never allowed to defend themselves or express their own opinions based on their experiences?

What are you defending? Are you one of the predatory jerks that harass women? If not, stop defending them. It's just like when "good" cops defend their asshole brethren who do bad things. It makes them all look bad.

All the men in here defending the assholes who harass women are making all of us look bad.


Of course not. I'm defending "men" in general. Just because some men are jerks doesn't mean that all men are jerks. That's all I'm trying to say.
2013-01-19 10:02:50 AM
2 votes:

Onkel Buck: [i379.photobucket.com image 500x375]

this is why men dont respect you


/not saying its right,


Well, true.

So many women seem to slink back to obviously abusive relationships not reluctantly, but willingly and gleefully.

Why should men respect women when they can't even respect themselves?
2013-01-19 09:59:41 AM
2 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: shastacola: Lenny_da_Hog: shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.

Yeah.

Women never judge each other on these things.

There's a difference between silently judging someone's looks and having complete strangers commenting on your "taco".but I bet you knew that.

Yeah. And it's funny that all the attractive women are only friends with other attractive women, and feel entitled to tell the others how ugly they are.

Have you never been in a high school, college campus, church, or bar?


Which has what to do with strangers making sexually suggestive comments to women? Is your argument that some women can be mean to each other so women deserve to have their vaginas,asses,legs,breasts,etc. publicly and loudly judged?
2013-01-19 09:47:39 AM
2 votes:

WhippingBoy: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: DrPainMD: Don't worry DNWPG. If your real-life personality is anything like your Fark personality, they'll leave you alone as soon as they get to know you.

Yea, because the last guy who groped my ass in a crowded subway car wanted to know what I thought of the dual Higgs discovery, you moron.

Do you think that this doesn't happen to men? When I was younger, I had my ass groped (without my consent) a number of times. I imagine that men who are more attractive then me have experienced this even more.


It was your yoga pants.
2013-01-19 09:40:46 AM
2 votes:
10 years from now:

i.dailymail.co.uk

"I wish somebody would holler at me like they did before. I feel so ugly and old. Where the hell is that Long Island iced tea I ordered?"
2013-01-19 09:39:39 AM
2 votes:

medieval: I would like to ask all the mouth-breathers who got from this article "I'm so pretty guys won't leave me alone" whether they're admitting to not reading the article, or whether they're admitting to being functionally illiterate. It has to be one of those two things.


Only Fark newbies or realy bored Farkers at work read the articles. Welcome To The Internet.
2013-01-19 09:37:58 AM
2 votes:
"Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits."

Or specifically, as the author described, "middle aged".

Its funny, she lacks the perspective to realize that she falls right into the same role of objectification she seems to think all men are guilty of.
2013-01-19 09:31:23 AM
2 votes:

jimmajim: So the consensus in this thread is that the guys described in TFA did nothing wrong? There's no point in criticizing their behavior, boys will be boys, right? wink wink nudge nudge.


Of course it is. No opportunity to bash women goes to waste here, no matter how laughably archaic it is. They're practically a FARK talisman against fear of the vag.

/yes my precious...
2013-01-19 09:20:16 AM
2 votes:
That level of paranoia is not normal. That is what she is describing, there's a world of difference between due vigilance and the paranoia of a simpleton. Just maybe, it's a case of the victim gravitating towards them.(AW as people above documented).

That kind of cat-calling is, by and large, a regional thing, the only attainable solution is to move to someplace that activities like that aren't common. I get a kick out of at the bottom of the article it says she loves Chicago. That's an obvious lie if half the populace is like that.

Who needs an app to see what they're doing wrong? It's not that society at large does not think it's wrong, it's that the perpetrators of such behavior DO NOT CARE.

Men's hair gets pointed out well enough, The Donald for a great example, or Nicholas Cage's. So *drumroll* that argument is irrelevant.
2013-01-19 09:13:12 AM
2 votes:

DrPainMD: Don't worry DNWPG. If your real-life personality is anything like your Fark personality, they'll leave you alone as soon as they get to know you.


Boy, please. Who pissed in your cheerios this morning?
2013-01-19 09:09:12 AM
2 votes:
Breaking News...Dudes can be assholes and unarmed women who've never figured out a way to defend themselves feel helpless!

More at 11!
2013-01-19 08:46:36 AM
2 votes:
i212.photobucket.com
2013-01-19 06:34:37 AM
2 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: Frederick: So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salaries,  undeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?

Fark you. Attractive women are not the only women who deal with farkupitude from guys. I got the same crap this woman got, either of the same type, or worse, the same experience not tempered by a pretty face. If you're female, you're fair game, out there in the world of assholes.

And her husband? Really?

Go EABOD.


Hmmm.  I read the article as I'm-so-pretty-guys-wont-leave-me-alone and apparently you read the article as all-men-are-rapists-in-waiting.

Fark me & EABOD...?  Thats a little harsh.
2013-01-21 08:33:21 AM
1 votes:

SimKey: Dansker: SimKey: Are we supposed to be feeling bad for women?

No, we're supposed to treat each other with decency, civility and respect.

Then women should stop entrapping men by getting pregnant. They should stop screwing them over for so much child support. They should dress reasonably in public and they should stop spreading their legs for porn.


As long as you're not applying ridiculous stereotyping.

Start there. MAYBE you'll get some respect.

Women don't respect themselves.


The women I know respect themselves plenty.
2013-01-21 07:27:04 AM
1 votes:

SimKey: Are we supposed to be feeling bad for women?


No, we're supposed to treat each other with decency, civility and respect.
2013-01-21 07:23:19 AM
1 votes:

untaken_name: Dansker: She didn't address it to the entire world. Why do you feel targeted?

Oh, right. She sent it as private correspondence to a single person, which is why no one but that intended recipient ever saw it. Oh, no, she posted it on the friggin' internet, dumbass.


So by your "logic" you have just called the entire world dumbass.
2013-01-20 09:34:11 PM
1 votes:

Dansker: She didn't address it to the entire world. Why do you feel targeted?


Oh, right. She sent it as private correspondence to a single person, which is why no one but that intended recipient ever saw it. Oh, no, she posted it on the friggin' internet, dumbass.
2013-01-20 08:58:13 PM
1 votes:

DrPainMD: The author, and most of the commenters, needs to grow a pair.


Not at all. After having spent time in various parts of the world I am convinced that there is something seriously wrong with societies that have originally been British colonies - namely Australia, New Zealand, the United States and of course Britain itself. I'm not sure about Canada since I haven't been there.

These cultures have a very nasty anti-social streak that manifests itself in hooliganism - a lack of respect for others, rampant graffiti vandalism, aggressive road behavior (such as tailgating and lane blocking) and a general attitude of fark you. In each of them you can find a sub-culture of ignorant assholes: chavs in England, neds in Scotland, rednecks and guidos in the US, bogans in Australia. These sort of people are not found in South Korea unless they are visitors from overseas - there is a large US military presence as well as an army of dubiously qualified English teachers.

Something else not found in South Korea (or China) is graffiti - and no one is going to throw a half empty can of beer at you from their car as you walk down the road.

We Anglos are nasty, ugly people.
2013-01-20 06:32:32 PM
1 votes:

cegorach: The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: Canned Tamales: I was responding to your much more general comment, and the ideas used by feminists. I thought that would be obvious, unless you're dishonest or stupid.

Call me a skeptic (or whatever you like), but I find the dramatization and frequency of such things alluded to in the article to not be very plausible, and not very harassing beyond rude.

I find it hard to believe that many women face daily harassment of that kind in western society, i.e random sex propositions, rutting movements, rude comments. I believe "several times a week" was the number used....I call bullshiat, or every woman I've ever known is a liar, and somehow I've gone 40 years living in places from the ghetto to the beach house without ever seeing it all.

No, I knew you were responding to your general notion that all feminists are man-haters who get upset at the tiniest compliment. I was merely pointing out to you that your stereotype is wrong.

So you are seriously telling me that you have never seen sexual harassment against women at all? I'm afraid I'm the one calling bullshiat. Unless of course your definition of sexual harassment is so skewed that it practically has to be rape before it is considered harassment.

And regardless of the frequency you believe it occurs at, you said you found the examples in the article to be "not very harassing beyond rude". I guess women just can't take a good pelvic thrusting joke.

I think the problem is that what you and I might call 'sexual harassment' he would call 'harmless fun and games'. And the fact that he doesn't grasp that is kind of the entire basis of rape culture, so I guess it's good that there are abject examples presenting themselves so willingly.


Yes, it's like they don't understand context at all. They apparently think that some random stranger making crude pelvic thrusts toward her is the same as a friend complimenting her on her appearance. It's almost like they think she should have been flattered by this random guy giving her attention, because hey, he's only telling her that he finds her attractive. Sure, the gesture might be a little crude, but don't get bent out of shape about it honey because really women like the attention or you wouldn't have been wearing those yoga pants.
2013-01-20 02:35:27 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: PsiChick: And I have no idea where the straw-man thing is coming from

What was the topic of the thread?

Hint: NOT RAPE

Now, sure, topics ebb and flow, but you're severely pushing the limits of rationality. The point has been made that a very large number of men will say X, typically as "I'd like to"(as noted in the article) and not "I will", and they never end up raping anyone. Therefore a feeling of apprehension is not a rational response. Yet you're here, trying to cram very questionable statistics down everyone's throats as if it's from the bible itself.

That you don't even see what you're doing is ... humorous.

Here's a newsflash. Polls are not really all that reliable, you've seen FOX news, right? Anyone with a goal can ask the right segment of the populace and get just the numbers that they desire.

In the face of that, your pushing and insisting is in all actuality, totally irrelevant.

[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 189x170]

Pincy: And you apparently agree with him.

No, you just have severe issues with understanding things in context. The point of DIAF, Get Raped! or even GTFO is more to drive a point home, typically of how willfully obtuse someone is being, how much of a sad sack of pseudo-intellectual failure you really are. You clearly haven't understood anything rational, flat out deny some things. You sort of mark yourself outside of that bubble of what's worth the time of a rational person, so they decide to mock you.

___

I've brought this up in other threads, but as the populace of fark gets more infested with people of average or lower IQ's it's more and more relevant. Can you truely get people of low IQ and gross ignorance that also happen to be true believers, can you get them to actually acknowledge fact?

I'm of the opinion, that no, it cannot be done. Look at Tirob's mess of law interpretation above. A general insistence that it is a catch-all, despite many supreme court cases saying otherwise.
All other examples being too ...


You're wasting your breath. Not only are you attempting to argue with someone who thinks she's psychic (so pesky little things like logic, evidence, and rational thought aren't overly important to her), but some of the things that she's previously posted suggest that her intelligence is on the lower end of the Fark community. So you're neither going to get a rational counter argument, nor are you going to get the satisfaction of sparring with a worthy opponent.
2013-01-20 02:26:08 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: I've brought this up in other threads, but as the populace of fark gets more infested with people of average or lower IQ's it's more and more relevant. Can you truely get people of low IQ and gross ignorance that also happen to be true believers, can you get them to actually acknowledge fact?

I'm of the opinion, that no, it cannot be done. Look at Tirob's mess of law interpretation above. A general insistence that it is a catch-all, despite many supreme court cases saying otherwise.
All other examples being too biased on your part, you can always look to SkinnnyHead and SteveB and IDW as prime examples of what it is that you're doing wrong here as well.

Some of you really are just not capable of handling rational thought, so in lieu of real discussion, we're left to entertain ourselves however we see fit.


Yes, I'm sure you've brought this up in threads many times. I'm sure it is always you who is the bastion of rationality surrounded by the insane and ignorant. If only everyone else understood your greatness and how you are only trying to help them be better people.

You're a martyr for the cause. Although martyrs usually end up suffering greatly, often with their lives. Not that I advocate something bad happening to you. In fact, I feel like I'm forced to say over and over that I don't.
2013-01-20 01:51:56 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: PsiChick: Fark discusses child abuse

Going off topic with rape isn't enough, you've got to drag that into it as well?

It's like a tiny straw man inside of another straw man.(which you'll notice I already mentioned straw men in my reply above).


Goddamn, are you just incapable of reading entire sentences? Your high-school English teacher must have loved you. My point is that people are more willing to discuss things if they're anonymous, not child abuse itself, you idiot. And I have no idea where the straw-man thing is coming from, because if you'll notice, my 'off topic' rape comments are an  example about how under-reported harassment is. If even  rape is underreported (which I assume you can agree with, since I linked you to a Wikipedia article whose data points at the lowest suggest 25%, which is still a damn big number?), what the hell do you think harassment is?
2013-01-20 01:34:19 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: Pincy: "If somebody raped you, I would not shed a tear."

What requires him(indeed, all of society) to cry if you get raped? That's hardly strange, the vast majority doesn't give 2 farks if you get raped or beat up. Mankind is not nearly as empathetic as everyone likes to pretend it is.

In fact, if you take it another step, examine the usage of DIAF or EABOD. Go suck eggs. Keep farking that chicken.

So, yeah. Get Raped!


Ah, here's another one of his gems:

"There is a strong case for turning a blind eye to the rape of people like cegorach. They should be designated, in effect, "rape-outlaws" who could be raped without consequence to the rapist. Note that I do not advocate rape: I deplore it. But those such as cegorach who misappropriate the stigma around rape for their own (probebly crypto-leftist) agenda should be denied protection from the true horror of violent rape."

And you apparently agree with him. Good for you. But please don't feel like we are forcing you to keep saying you don't support rape because we wouldn't want to put you out.
2013-01-20 01:20:57 PM
1 votes:

BolshyGreatYarblocks: Would this be the fat self-hating one who screams "Leave us ALONE!! LEAVE US THE FARK ALOOONE!!!!" when a man says, "Hi! My name is....."?


Funny how you had to throw "fat" in there. But you aren't stereotyping, right?
2013-01-20 01:19:03 PM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: WhippingBoy: THE GREAT NAME: Everyone: do not disagree with the opinions of user cegorach because if you do you are automatically "rape-y" and part of "rape culture".

It's an effective silencing tactic. Someone posts an opinion you don't agree with? Label them a rapist (or a bigot, or a Liberal, etc. etc.).

I know. And it forces us to repeatedly state that we do not support rape, which should be obvious and should not need to be stated. This is why NAME makes a point of point of saying that while he does not support rape in general, the rape of cegorach would, as a special case, not meed with NAME's explicit disapproval.


It might force you to keep saying you don't support rape but it doesn't force you from saying:

"If somebody raped you, I would not shed a tear."

earlier in the thread.
2013-01-20 11:55:06 AM
1 votes:
Women are awesome and should be treated with respect.  Try it you may find they actually want to hang out with you or in your interewebby forums.

That's really all I have to say on the topic.
2013-01-20 11:04:48 AM
1 votes:
"I'm leaving a bar with my roommate..."

Would this be the fat self-hating one who screams "Leave us ALONE!! LEAVE US THE FARK ALOOONE!!!!" when a man says, "Hi! My name is....."?

I also relished how the author goes to Barcelona to avoid sexual harrassment. No doubt she went there to look at the Gaudi buildings, and CERTAINLY NOT to score some olive-skinned hookup pinga. "Sexual harrassment is the wrong man.......".

And Angry Feminist is not a straw man; the author herself is proof that there are very vocal women who fear, hate or despise most, or even all, men. And like pyschopaths in high places, their influence is out of all proportion to their numbers.

barbersadagio.mp3
2013-01-20 10:28:52 AM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: cosmiquemuffin: You guys do this to complete stranger dudes on the street?

Boys are dumber than I thought.

Some guys do that. Not all. Talk about stereotyping..


Stereotyping only wrong when done to "survivor" groups. It's all good with "perpetrator" groups. Everyone has a counter-argument for why it's not hypocritical and morally fraudulent to use equality to argue for inequality. But few know the real reason. Which is that those who control who is in which group control the whole of society.
2013-01-20 10:23:30 AM
1 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: cosmiquemuffin: DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other.

Sooooo... Men catcall to each other on the street about their asses and sucking their dicks?

Men catcall to each other talking shiat about each other. Catcalls are steam release. They're annoying as fk. But that's not rape. Like Bunner said, above, it's about the reaction. Witty people get props. People who try to be witty but fail get laughed at as well as continued annoying attention. People who ignore are forgotten within seconds, for the next target. People who make a show of being offended get laughed at and continued annoying attention.

People who show fear get it worse.

It's annoying, it sucks, it's a drain -- but it's not rape.


You guys do this to complete stranger dudes on the street?

Boys are dumber than I thought.
2013-01-20 10:09:30 AM
1 votes:

Wayne 985: ThrobblefootSpectre: Wayne 985: You don't believe women should have the right to vote or equal pay? That's what "feminism" is, though I believe you're confusing it for "misandry".

I believe in equal rights and equal opportunity because I'm a humanist. And it has nothing to do with feminism. For example, I also support eliminating sentencing disparities between genders (men get sentenced to 275% more prison time for the same crimes). Something feminists are dead silent about, and even biatch about when it is brought up. In short, I believe in equal rights in a true sense, across the board, which is why I could never be a feminist.

You're applying your own definition to a word that already has one. If you're a humanist, then by nature you're also a feminist.


Rubbish. Words are defined by common usage. "Feminist" is understood by the majority to be about promoting female interests regardless of equality, and the corresponding political cause.

If you're one of those people who thinks feminists should be the ones to determine the meaning of the word "feminism" and that they should be able to change it constantly as a way of winning arguments, then you're a fool and you need to join the reality-based community.
2013-01-20 10:00:47 AM
1 votes:

Benjimin_Dover: ElectricPeterTork: cryinoutloud:

/the ignore list is the greatest thing on Fark

Here's a handy translation for this type of comment we've seen from so many who love bragging about the size of their *ahem* ignore list (sounds kind of like a male thing, doesn't it... bragging about size...)

I ONLY WANT TO READ THINGS FROM PEOPLE WITH LIKEMINDED VIEWPOINTS!!! HOW DARE YOU DISAGREE WITH ME!

/Remember, kids, anyone who brags about their ignore list is generally someone whose opinion means nothing in the first place... less than the opinion of those people who are ignored by the high and mighty.

The ignore list is a tool for the closed minded people.


It's fascinating how people think their ignore list is some sort of weapon... like they are harming somebody by not reading their comments.

Also, if someone says "*click*" and then actually puts the person on ignore, they won't see the person's response to the "*click*". So why do it?
2013-01-20 09:20:35 AM
1 votes:

Dansker: Smackledorfer: Frederick: So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salaries,  undeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?

Done in one.

/would love to have strangers comment on my looks. Fortunately for the attractive they can cover up, dress down etc. I can't be hot for a day. Harassment isn't right, but in many cases the appropriate response is "get over it".
//grass is always greener

She looks kinda average and ordinary to me.
[img.photobucket.com image 525x350]


Looks like the kind of woman who projects a rather unpleasant personality. So obviously the only attention she gets is sexual. She probably has no idea that men are more than happy to get into cerebral relationships with women who are actually pleasant to be with.

And who is enabling this situation? Feminists, who keep telling her she's five times better than any man she's ever met. She will live a lonely life thanks to feminists.
2013-01-20 09:18:37 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: Am I the only one who found it incredulous that they weren't drunk when they're discussing where to get tacos well after dinner time after leaving a bar? I'm betting they were both over the legal limit, and consequently her perception and judgement were impaired.

2013-01-20 07:28:20 AM
1 votes:

cegorach: Normally, when someone says the words 'rape culture' the ingrained instinct is to roll one's eyes because, really, there can't be that many farked up men out there.

It's such a shame that there are threads like this to validate that yes, it's a valid term that applies to a very significant percentage of males and females and yes, the people engaging in it have no farking ability to self reflect.


We roll our eyes because clueless people who have no idea what rape culture actually is start to equate cat calls with rape. Rape culture is real, it does exist and it tends to involve society using rape as a form of terrorism.

Look at Africa where woman get raped by the millions. Look in the middle east where it was acceptable for someone to have an official rapist on government payroll, look to places like India where gang rape on a bus is normal or large parts of Asia where sex slavery of women is widespread.

Those are all real rape culture, getting cat called simply doesn't equate.
2013-01-20 05:38:48 AM
1 votes:

stiletto_the_wise: So, to summarize the article and this ensuing trainwreck of a thread:

I'm on the phone with my mom on my way to yoga when a guy leans out of a doorway, drags on his cigarette and gestures with his pelvis how much he is enjoying my yoga pants.

equals RAPE

I'm walking home from the grocery store and a middle-aged guy, maybe high, maybe drunk, yells at me, "Get back here, girl!"

equals contribution to RAPE culture

I'm waiting for the bus when a carful of bros whips by; one leans out the passenger window, points at the girls waiting at the bus stop and yells, "Yes, Yes, No...Yes!"

equals drive-by RAPE

After work, I'm walking from the train to my apartment and four teenagers are trailing me, discussing my body, guessing measurements; they know I can hear them.

equals gang RAPE
Today has been very informative.


Weird. You can write, but apparently you can't read.
2013-01-20 03:17:57 AM
1 votes:

TheBigJerk: cegorach: It's also interesting how the Men's Right's Activists in here apparently wouldn't bat an eyelid if their mother, grandmother or little sister were treated in some of the ways discussed in the article.

I guess they just shouldn't be so darned sexy and dress like whores :(

Article: "These particular men were jerkasses! Why are men like that?"

Counterpoint: "Many women reward those jerkasses with sex regularly! Why are women like that?"

Then both say at the same time, "well *I'M* not like that!!!" and the irony and understanding elude them.

Bottom line: if I'm a woman I'm pretty and and sexually available or I'm a worthless human being, if I'm a man I'm knee deep in pussy or I'm a worthless human being. Thus society has spoken, thus it shall be.

Strangely enough social indoctrination of feminism and egalitarianism worked on me so well growing up I am completely undatable due to glaring personality flaws regarding attracting people. So good job society, you're keeping everyone but the assholes and idiots from breeding.


If that's what you got from the article, you've been listening to too many Men's Rights Advocates.

It's called rape culture for a reason. It's not about isolated extreme instances, those are just the highlight markers. It's about the overall social mechanisms that allow the rape-y kind of mentality espoused by many people, including people in this thread, to continue.

And despite what the MRA's may say, rape occurrences are not 'vastly over-reported'. Quite the opposite, assuming you don't get your data from MRA websites.
2013-01-20 01:40:55 AM
1 votes:
Normally, when someone says the words 'rape culture' the ingrained instinct is to roll one's eyes because, really, there can't be that many farked up men out there.

It's such a shame that there are threads like this to validate that yes, it's a valid term that applies to a very significant percentage of males and females and yes, the people engaging in it have no farking ability to self reflect.
2013-01-20 01:16:12 AM
1 votes:
I'm not going to read the thread but instead use my magic powers to deduce it is full of Internet Males claiming that yes, while RAPE rape is bad (but if you didn't take preventative steps it's your fault), anything else is harmless and 'complaining' about it is just whiny feminist posturing.

And I bet someone brought up Internet Male hero Richard Dawkins and his ridiculous screed against Rebecca Watson.
2013-01-20 01:10:51 AM
1 votes:

Canned Tamales: I certainly don't mind it. Why would I? I work around mostly women, they do it all the time, positively and negatively. But when women do it, it's not considered claiming some kind of power over men (even when that is the intent). But in feminist logic, ALL men have power over ALL women ALL of the time, and so a random pleasant comment (or polite criticism, or recognition of novelty, or anything) becomes a horrible weapon against a woman's self-image and a claim on her body. No man would ever spend a lot of time on his appearance and expect no feedback. That would be silly. Like feminism.


Did you read the same article I read? She wasn't writing about a pleasant comment or polite criticism:

I'm on the phone with my mom on my way to yoga when a guy leans out of a doorway, drags on his cigarette and gestures with his pelvis how much he is enjoying my yoga pants.

Why that's just a pleasant comment about how nice her ass looks.

I'm walking home from the grocery store and a middle-aged guy, maybe high, maybe drunk, yells at me, "Get back here, girl!"

And that's just a polite criticism to let her know that she's a biatch for ignoring him.

But please, go ahead and keep pretending that she was talking about the sweet old man who offered to give his seat up to her on the bus or the fellow that held the door open for her that one time.
2013-01-20 01:10:40 AM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: Holy fark, this is a creepy thread. So much anger towards the author. I'm not sure whether to put some of you on ignore, or tag you so I can keep an eye on you in the future,


Nobody gives a shiat what you do.

I'm surprised it took this long, though. We really need you to tell us why we're wrong for not being part of your irrational belief system.
2013-01-20 01:05:54 AM
1 votes:

Wayne 985: ThrobblefootSpectre: Wayne 985: You don't believe women should have the right to vote or equal pay? That's what "feminism" is, though I believe you're confusing it for "misandry".

I believe in equal rights and equal opportunity because I'm a humanist. And it has nothing to do with feminism. For example, I also support eliminating sentencing disparities between genders (men get sentenced to 275% more prison time for the same crimes). Something feminists are dead silent about, and even biatch about when it is brought up. In short, I believe in equal rights in a true sense, across the board, which is why I could never be a feminist.

You're applying your own definition to a word that already has one. If you're a humanist, then by nature you're also a feminist.


BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

Now THAT'S a great joke.

Humanists believe in equality for all. Feminism is a supremacy movement and social cult based on bad math, lies, pseudoscience and traditionalist gender roles hidden in rhetoric. Not the same.

Plus, humanists tend to be intelligent and concerned about others besides themselves.
2013-01-20 01:05:29 AM
1 votes:

Pincy: The woman in the article was trying to tell men that she can't always laugh it off, partly because there is always a threat of escalation


img692.imageshack.us

If I'm not mistaken (too lazy to re-read it), the vast majority of her examples, if not all of them, were in public with lots of other people around. If she lived in India, fair enough, but she doesn't.

On the other hand: If she's all alone, late at night, with no one around except a group of guys walking towards her, then we're talking about something completely different. However, as I mentioned, her examples were not of this nature. Accordingly, my initial reaction was as I posted, and that's why I don't think making the conversation about rape is appropriate, given the contexts that she herself put forward.

/haven't read other peoples' posts
//not trying to validate/invalidate their POVs
2013-01-20 01:01:59 AM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: We get it, women are making shiat up, this stuff almost never happens.

Kind of sucks when people trivialize what, to you, are real problems, doesn't it?


Yes, I admit it, men are the real victims of sexual harassment. If only I were born a woman.
2013-01-20 01:00:28 AM
1 votes:

The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: Canned Tamales: The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: Smackledorfer: /would love to have strangers comment on my looks.

Because you need validation from complete strangers why?

Maybe because not everybody is an over-privileged anti-social asshole looking to take offense at everything anyone else does without their permission? They don't hate first and ask questions later?

Do you love to have strangers comment on your looks? If so why? If not, then you can't really answer my question now can you.


I certainly don't mind it. Why would I? I work around mostly women, they do it all the time, positively and negatively. But when women do it, it's not considered claiming some kind of power over men (even when that is the intent). But in feminist logic, ALL men have power over ALL women ALL of the time, and so a random pleasant comment (or polite criticism, or recognition of novelty, or anything) becomes a horrible weapon against a woman's self-image and a claim on her body. No man would ever spend a lot of time on his appearance and expect no feedback. That would be silly. Like feminism.
2013-01-20 12:53:20 AM
1 votes:

The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: We get it, women are making shiat up, this stuff almost never happens.


Kind of sucks when people trivialize what, to you, are real problems, doesn't it?
2013-01-20 12:43:14 AM
1 votes:

onyxruby: My issues were with the presumption that women don't like getting hit on.


This article wasn't about a woman getting "hit on".
2013-01-20 12:36:48 AM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: Holy fark, this is a creepy thread. So much anger towards the author. I'm not sure whether to put some of you on ignore, or tag you so I can keep an eye on you in the future,


The article struck a nerve, more so with men then women. Frankly I'm rather surprised how big it got, so obviously this is something that people feel strongly about. All things considered I'm inclined to think the author of the article was trolling men just for lulz. If it makes you feel any better I've seen plenty of articles on Fark where the women had plenty to say about the men as well.

In my case I never defended the men that made cat calls or the like. My issues were with the presumption that women don't like getting hit on. I've had enough female friends over the years to know that they hate becoming invisible, and you'd have to be blind to miss the billions of dollars spent advertising products to make invisible women look younger. My bigger point was more that it's women giving other women a hard time far more often than it is the men.
2013-01-20 12:19:12 AM
1 votes:
Holy fark, this is a creepy thread. So much anger towards the author. I'm not sure whether to put some of you on ignore, or tag you so I can keep an eye on you in the future,
2013-01-20 12:07:44 AM
1 votes:

PsiChick: The FBI, which has access to insane amounts of information


Some of the FBI's information about rape since you seem to like them as a source:

"Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have "matched" or included the primary suspect."

Statistically speaking a man accused of rape only has his DNA match the DNA found in the sperm of the woman accusing him of rape 60% of the time. Can you back up your claim that the FBI says 94% of all rapes aren't reported, or is this another one of those 1 in 4 woman have been raped claims?

FUD is FUD and bullshiat claims like 94% of all rapes go unreported are what cause people like the author of the story to walk around thinking that random men are going to rape her. Not a rape apologist, I've had female and male friends get raped and it's reprehensible. But let's get real here and quit blowing things out of context.
2013-01-20 12:03:54 AM
1 votes:
Or she could just stop biatching and take a lesson from Dixie Carter in Designing Women:
There's no need for introductions, Ray Don. We know who you are...
2013-01-19 11:55:43 PM
1 votes:
Am I the only one who found it incredulous that they weren't drunk when they're discussing where to get tacos well after dinner time after leaving a bar? I'm betting they were both over the legal limit, and consequently her perception and judgement were impaired.
2013-01-19 11:43:49 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: PsiChick: Wow. That's one of the most impressive conspiracy theories I've seen all day.

Wow. That's one of the most heinously intellectually dishonest excuses I've read all day.


So here's our options:

A) The FBI is lying, and  literally no agency in the world has  ever called them on it. Because a conspiracy against men involving the entire government isn't a human rights violation or anything.

B) The FBI, which has access to  insane amounts of information, and are probably counting each rape as separate (i.e. a marital rape case with three rapes across a week equals three rapes),and therefore have discovered that, logically, when a woman is raped by someone she cares about, she does not tend to report it (and probably that the same goes for men).

Occam's Razor, anybody?
2013-01-19 11:39:44 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: ThrobblefootSpectre: Wayne 985: If you're a humanist, then by nature you're also a feminist.

I don't think they are necessarily overlapping sets. As I mentioned, there are some equal rights issues that feminists seem to not only be silent about, but downright hostile to discussing. So in the venn digram, count me in the part of the group that wants equal rights for everyone. Not feminists.

I think that person is confused, or equivocating, what feminism can mean. It can be anything from flagrant misandry to something more benign and more relative to humanism(In that women are "behind" in some area's relative to men, ie wage disparity). There is an overlap, but there are parts of feminism entirely outside the scope of humanism.


I rely of the dictionary's definition of the term: "The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men."

I know a lot of people in society remain uncomfortable with women asserting themselves, and therefore "feminism" has come to mean "radical man-hater", but that's irrelevant.
2013-01-19 11:15:04 PM
1 votes:

toomuchmarisa: Pincy: THE GREAT NAME: toomuchmarisa: [img685.imageshack.us image 300x391]

Jesus farking christ I am SO TIRED of women complaining all the time about everything. If you're an attractive woman you are like a celebrity, and celebrities have to deal with getting harassed in public. Period. On the other hand, you are also A FARKING CELEBRITY, which has a plethora of perks.

This is how life goes, there are upsides and downsides to everything. Incessantly complaining about the negative aspects, especially while ignoring the positives, just makes you look like a whiny, spoiled, and naive 12 year old. Grow the fark up.

/life is hard
//welcome to the real world
///rich white people problems ftl

Feminists like Pincy ensure women have no challenges in life, and hence no reason to grow up. At least until it is too late. Feminism's gift to women is a poisoned chalice.

I take it you are implying that being called a feminist is a bad thing?

And yes, in a perfect world, I don't think women should have to have the "challenge" of trying not to be raped. If that makes me a bad person then so be it.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 460x278]

It is frustrating that people like you make discussions which are largely about sexual harassment into discussions about rape. Can the two be related? Of course. However, the OVERWHELMING majority of people who engage in sexual harassment (of the kind discussed in the article) do not commit rape. This is highlighted by the author herself, who speaks of countless harassment encounters, but no rapes.

You remind me of the people who fiercely ensure that any debate over the politics of Hilary Clinton or Barack Obama become debates about feminism or racism. It's narrow-minded and utterly unproductive.


Ya, most sexual harassment does not end in rape, didn't mean to imply that it does. A lot of people in this thread are trying to make the argument that sexual harassment toward women isn't really that much of a big deal because men can be sexually harassed as well and men don't freak out about it. Seems to me there is quite the difference between the two though. I'm guessing most men never even consider the possibility that harassment from a women could escalate and thus are able to laugh it off. The woman in the article was trying to tell men that she can't always laugh it off, partly because there is always a threat of escalation. I asked my wife about this and she seemed to agree. I've heard other women say the same thing. So I'm giving the author the benefit of the doubt.

So ya, I suppose it is easy to start talking about violence and rape when discussing sexual harassment. But to me at least, it seems like that threat is the main reason why men and women experience sexual harassment differently.
2013-01-19 11:13:02 PM
1 votes:

Wayne 985: If you're a humanist, then by nature you're also a feminist.


I don't think they are necessarily overlapping sets. As I mentioned, there are some equal rights issues that feminists seem to not only be silent about, but downright hostile to discussing. So in the venn digram, count me in the part of the group that wants equal rights for everyone. Not feminists.
2013-01-19 10:11:17 PM
1 votes:
Well, this thread ended up pretty much the way I thought it would.

Sadly.
2013-01-19 09:52:41 PM
1 votes:

Bored Horde: Oblio13: I've made a list of things Angry Feminists like about men:

Who are "Angry Feminists" other then a strawman you've summoned forth to excuse your shiatty attitudes?

Oh look at me I'm a poor oppressed man, curse my every advantage.


Every advantage.....lols. You actually believe that idiot dogshiat.

Bored Horde: someonelse: letrole: Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits.

You can't troll a thread where the most blatantly ignorant opinions are already being expressed in earnest, dude. You can't make a sh*thouse smell worse.

It's true. It's The Onion's problem. When Republicans elected to the Federal Government are lamenting the dearth of rights we give Rapists over the women they've raped, how can you satirize life?


Okay, there it is......an idiot and a disgusting liar for political purposes. What a surprise!

.
2013-01-19 09:45:57 PM
1 votes:

Bored Horde: WhippingBoy: Bored Horde: In the business world, if you're a man, as long as your hair is short and under control, everyone ignores it. It's a check box item. Women's hair gets graded. Men's clothing is the same - it's pass/fail, either the suit is clean, pressed, and fits or it's bad. Women's clothing gets graded for appearance, fashion, and riding the thin line between dowdy and slutty.

Are you sure about this? Do you have anything to back it up instead of your personal impressions or a ranting post from Jezebel?

Yes - this is basic perceptual research into photos of people, established in the 20th century and now a staple item of undergraduate introductory projects because the experiment is completely understood, the results fully analyzed, and it's still repeatable with the same findings.

Men's hair attracts comments like "professional" or "unprofessional", women's hair attracts comments like "fashionable" "stylish" "flirty" "professional" - it's graded on a spectrum. Again, if you've never understood this stuff and have any interest in learning what it's like to live as a woman in the Western world, then go read some books on the matter. You're not going to get a comprehensive education from a Fark thread, you're going to read a few nuggest of perspective among a flowing river of shiat from the internet misogynists.


So, your saying that women are allowed a greater range of expression and even opportunity in a lot of ways, whereas men are held to inflexible, dehumanizing roles....and this is evidence of oppression of women? Even though outside of a few narrow career paths (where men are held to just as high, if less varied standards), it's generally a matter of personal choice?

Jeez, how farking terrible they have it.

Funny how feminists use what very little actual science they do to completely misinterpret reality....
....I just hope I never have to fight in a war, because the women in my life will be the REAL victims if I die! (thanks, Hillary Clinton, for dehumanizing the men you send to their deaths, you're a great feminist!)
2013-01-19 09:36:04 PM
1 votes:

Bored Horde: WhippingBoy: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: DrPainMD: Don't worry DNWPG. If your real-life personality is anything like your Fark personality, they'll leave you alone as soon as they get to know you.

Yea, because the last guy who groped my ass in a crowded subway car wanted to know what I thought of the dual Higgs discovery, you moron.

Do you think that this doesn't happen to men? When I was younger, I had my ass groped (without my consent) a number of times. I imagine that men who are more attractive then me have experienced this even more.

Groping a woman carries the implicit threat of rape in a way that a woman groping a man doesn't. However uncomfortable you felt being groped, remember that women are taught that it's their fault they got groped, that all men are groping raping monsters and it's the woman's fault if they let them get close.

For you, it was the simple act of violation of your body. For women, it's that AND a reminder that their body's positive assets belong to society.


That's what it is to self-obsessed professional victims, and maybe women sold as sex slaves in bad movies. To everyone else....notsomuch.
2013-01-19 09:21:39 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: CasperImproved: Pincy: CasperImproved: Pincy: CasperImproved: The reality is that we are all vulnerable to attack.

I'm assuming you are a man. You really walk around with the fear that you could be raped?

Are you truly that stupid?

Attack does not assume "rape", although that does happen occasionally.

Again, the article is about sexual harassment and rape and that's what this thread has been about and yet for some reason you keep trying to pretend otherwise. I know you can't really be that obtuse. The overwhelming majority of men do not live in fear of being raped. Unfortunately that can't be said about women.

Funny that you don't understand the definition of "attack". I said stupid. I really meant to say "dense".

BTW, "rape" is not sexually related in most instances. It is a need for dominance, power, and pain. You can when "attacked" be the recipient of those needs from the aggressor without being raped.

I will not reply to you again. There is no discourse with you (much like talking to a rock).

Funny how you keep trying to pretend that rape isn't anything special and women don't need to be concerned with it any more than the average guy walking down the street needs to be concerned with being mugged.

And yes, I know rape is not about sex but about power. And it is still a crime that affects women much more than men. Very few men live their lives in fear of being raped. Wish I could say the same about women.

Please don't reply, because your dishonesty is getting tiresome.


As a woman with woman friends, I can confidently say that not one of us lives in fear every day of being raped. And the funny thing is, the girls I hang out with, like me, have lots of male friends, who joke around and say sexual things and we don't get all offended about it. If we're in public and some douche yells out "Hey baby, why don't you suck my dick?" we either ignore them or laugh derisively and make comments about what a prick he is. We don't get all victimy like half the women in this thread seem to think is the thing to do.
2013-01-19 09:13:14 PM
1 votes:
Oh yippy, another reality-free article of Internet Feminism!

Internet feminism, a magical place where the average woman has rutting motions aimed at her, grabby guys clinging all the time, and verbal harassment thrown at her at least several times a week from ages 12 through 60, even though nobody else ever sees it but her!

Where every woman has been repeatedly raped or sexually assaulted, and just wants to know when the next rape will be so she can set her appointments!

Where any language that doesn't sound right when applied to men is obviously sexist, but no such restrictions or expectations or policing are ever placed on women's speech, no matter how wrong!

Ah, a truly magical land where every woman's self-obsessed grievance is the fault of all men everywhere perpetuating "rape culture", but women are accountable for nothing ever, and all female social privilege is really just "benevolent sexism", not female power. Where women never help perpetuate the problems they face.

A blessed and reverential altar to female victimhood, for all to worship and.....

....oops, I just stepped in some internet feminism...can I borrow somebody's toothbrush?
2013-01-19 08:54:47 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: Pincy: First, calling someone out for being sexist or harassing is not a First Amendment issue at all.

Depends on who's doing the calling out, and what the repurcussions of free speech are in that scenerio. If it comes down to you insisting that others are "wrong" for speaking as they will, it is a free speech issue. Sure, it's not at the governmental level, but it is relevant nonetheless. Individuals can interfere with rights as much as the government can.


No, it is not a First Amendment issue.

Pincy: Second, of course there is a benefit in trying to create a more civil society. We should be calling people out who continue to act like assholes

Seeking out strife is not a "more civil" society. Getting all outragey is not civil, in fact it is actually called civil disobedience in some places when carried out in a certain manner. It creates hostility. That is the motivator behind "turn the other cheek", or "ignore them". You plainly admitted that people "should ignore them" so why are you contradicting yourself now?

I've never seen someone backpedal in two directions at once, almost impressive... almost.


Yes in many cases it is wise for a woman to ignore her harasser because it can easily escalate. But then I said that men shouldn't be ignoring it, they should be speaking out against it. And yes, pushing for social change for the better is an attempt to create a more civil society. You clearly do not understand the purpose of Civil Disobedience or how it works.

Pincy: Finally, did I ever say that women shouldn't call out other women out for harassment? By all means, if a woman is sexually harassing a man then other women should call her out on it. But I'm a man, so I'm speaking to men here

Why do women have to tell women, and men tell men? You are quite obvious in your sexism. Rational adults can take constructive criticism from men and women alike, those that are not rational can and will ignore anyone's advice at will, regardless of gender/sex. That you pretend otherwise is laughable.


You are being way too obtuse here. Anybody can of course speak up when harassment occurs regardless of gender. But you and I both know that sexual harassment is primarily committed by men against women. Women should continue to speak out when they are harassed but it's not their job to make men stop harassing them, that's up to men. It's evident from this very thread that there is still way too much victim blaming and not enough self-reflection.
2013-01-19 08:50:54 PM
1 votes:

Honest Bender: Don't worry. Some day you'll hit that right age where you become invisible to men.


It's 45. Multiple women have confirmed this to me in conversations. Turned 45 and suddenly they became invisible.
2013-01-19 08:39:56 PM
1 votes:
The reason this is such a problem is that the vast majority of women fall for this crap. They turn and see that the guy making the lewd comments has a square jaw, some tattoos, and the body of an ex-high-school football player, and they put out.

Think about it, biatches: if their behavior didn't accomplish what they wanted it to, nobody would be trying it anymore!

GOD are women stupid!!
2013-01-19 08:32:30 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: But you seem to be saying that *men* are the ones that need to be responsible for calling out jerks. Why is that? Because we're all part of the same club? Because I happen to have a penis, it's my responsibility to call out other people who happen to have a penis when they're being jerks? It's not *my* fault some other individual is acting like a jerk; why is it *my* responsibility to correct him?


Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, thank you for summarizing it so succinctly.

Why? Because it's not the victim's responsibility to solve the perpetrator's problems.

Take homophobia as an analogy. Who are the victims? Gays, trans-genders, etc... They have every right to speak out against it and to try to make the world a safer place for themselves. But homophobia is not their problem. Homophobia is a straight-person problem. Gays don't have the responsibility to fix straight people's hang-ups. Straight people need to fix them. That means non-homophobic straight people need to start calling out and trying to educate homophobic straight people. It would be completely unfair to say "hey gay people, sorry we are harassing you, please fix us so we don't do that any more". The victims are not responsible for the actions of their attackers.

So ya, men have a responsibility to fix things because sexual harassment and rape generally flows from men toward women, so sexual harassment/rape is a men problem. Now if you don't believe that, if you think the sexual harassment/rape playing field is a level one, then I guess you won't agree with me. But I really find it hard to believe that men live their day-to-day lives fearing that they could be raped by a woman. I find it hard to believe that they are planning escapes routes when a strange woman directs a catcall at them. I could be wrong. Maybe I am sheltered and don't know what really goes on in the world for most men?

Am I saying you personally need to confront every man you ever see harassing a woman? No. It depends on the situation of course. But in general, we as men need to start trying a little harder to fix our problem.
2013-01-19 07:38:36 PM
1 votes:
I'm late to the party, but man what a horrible article . There's a very wide chasm between rude guys who make inappropriate remarks and a rapist.

That guy who made the "taco" remark and walked along side you? He's the same guy who was making fat jokes about someone else two minutes earlier. Those teens who were "guessing your measurements"? They were just in McDonalds teasing the guy behind the counter. In other words, the people you mention are jerks. Idiots. They are classless morons. You aren't special.

You don't have a monopoly on getting your feelings hurt or being offended. Your "handicap" is being so pretty that you stand out. Boo-hoo. Other people have to deal with these buffoons on a daily basis, too, except it's because they are overweight, or unattractive, or work a dead-end job, or basically have any other "difference" that makes them a target to these lumbering mouth-breathers.
2013-01-19 06:45:12 PM
1 votes:

fredklein: Millennium: TFA: Ask your female friends, if you have any, if they've ever walked home late at night with a key pushed through their knuckles, just in case...

By the way, don't do that. It's actually more dangerous to you than to the other guy. Even if you do it "properly," when you punch someone the key will just disappear back behind your fingers, having done no significant harm to either party.

Don't punch- swipe. The jagged keys will rip up their face.


Actually, that's even worse. Brand-new keys might make some very shallow cuts, but they won't rip up the person's face. Keys you've been using for more than a couple of months won't be sharp enough to do much of anything. Meanwhile, remember how I said that using Wolverine-keys improperly would jam them back into the soft parts of your hand? Swiping is exactly the sort of motion that will do that: they'll go back into the webbing between your fingers, and that's a much softer part of your body than your face (or, more to the point, your opponent's). Your swipe might stun him for a moment or two, but you'll knock your own hand completely out of action in the process: not a very good trade.

What you really want to do with a protruding key is to jam it into the other guy's eye. This is like going for the Death Star's exhaust port: a solid hit is devastating, but your target is very small and easily-protected, and you're dead if you screw up, so unless you're some kind of Jedi you've got no business trying. This is why I suggest keys as a simple weight in your fist. It's not as damaging or as flashy, but it's hard to get wrong even if you're untrained, and it's enough to stun the guy for a second or two. Then you kick him in the groin while he's stunned to buy you more time, and you run for your life.

There are ways to fight someone stronger than you; make no mistake about that. But if you don't have the training, it's best not to try fighting: get the drop on him, disable him quickly in the ways everyone knows, and then get the fark out. That's much more likely to get you out alive than trying to make a stand when you can't win.
2013-01-19 06:32:14 PM
1 votes:
FTFAWhen women get harassed on the street, or at a bar, or on their walk home from work, do you know what we think? We wonder, am I going to get out of this safely? Am I going to walk away from this? Where are my keys if I need to stab someone in the eye? Are there people on the street? Will they hear me? Which way will I run? Solar Plexus, Instep, Nose, Groin. I'm exaggerating, but only so slightly.

So a random dude walking home along at night doesn't have these thoughts too? Statistically, men are MUCH more likely to be violently assaulted then women in the United States and to die from such violence. And if we are speaking about rape statistics also show that a women is much more likely to be raped by someone she knows then some random guy making catcalls on the street.
2013-01-19 06:29:11 PM
1 votes:

DrPainMD: The author, and most of the commenters, needs to grow a pair.


I stopped giving a f*ck what women think a long time go. You can't farking win. American women are a walking mass of contradictions. They want to act like sluts but not be called sluts. As if enjoying sex is a bad thing, meh. They want guys to look at them appreciatively, thinking their pretty, but practically sue guys that do. They whine about equality, right until they get it, then they want special treatment.

Not all women, thank goodness, just the vast majority.
2013-01-19 06:17:19 PM
1 votes:

LavenderWolf: Pincy: omeganuepsilon: tirob: One obscene gesture can suffice.

Only if it is a disruption or as the name of the situation is used, a disturbance is caused. One single person, even a few does not constitute a disturbance unless they are all that is present. You've got to upset the public at large for it to count as a public disturbance. It's meant to keep the peace in places of large numbers and limit people who are disruptive to large groups, not pamper an offended individual.

Pincy: I agree that women should probably just ignore them. I think that other men should be the one's to tell them to shut the hell up.

And that's not sexist at all!
/sarcasm

I don't get it? So men shouldn't speak up when other men are being sexist?

No, it's not that. It's sexist to tell an entire gender what to do because you don't want to do it. "Stand up for your rights!" "No, you do it for me."


Oh, don't get me wrong, if a woman wants to stand up to some jerk I'm all for it. Maybe I should have worded that differently because I didn't mean to imply that women shouldn't do anything. My main point was that men need to start doing more about this, like calling each other out when we are acting inappropriately.
2013-01-19 06:06:51 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: omeganuepsilon: tirob: One obscene gesture can suffice.

Only if it is a disruption or as the name of the situation is used, a disturbance is caused. One single person, even a few does not constitute a disturbance unless they are all that is present. You've got to upset the public at large for it to count as a public disturbance. It's meant to keep the peace in places of large numbers and limit people who are disruptive to large groups, not pamper an offended individual.

Pincy: I agree that women should probably just ignore them. I think that other men should be the one's to tell them to shut the hell up.

And that's not sexist at all!
/sarcasm

I don't get it? So men shouldn't speak up when other men are being sexist?


No, it's not that. It's sexist to tell an entire gender what to do because you don't want to do it. "Stand up for your rights!" "No, you do it for me."
2013-01-19 06:02:47 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: tirob: One obscene gesture can suffice.

Only if it is a disruption or as the name of the situation is used, a disturbance is caused. One single person, even a few does not constitute a disturbance unless they are all that is present. You've got to upset the public at large for it to count as a public disturbance. It's meant to keep the peace in places of large numbers and limit people who are disruptive to large groups, not pamper an offended individual.

Pincy: I agree that women should probably just ignore them. I think that other men should be the one's to tell them to shut the hell up.

And that's not sexist at all!
/sarcasm


I don't get it? So men shouldn't speak up when other men are being sexist?
2013-01-19 05:43:42 PM
1 votes:

Bored Horde: Frederick: So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salaries,  undeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?

Good looking men get more money and raise through the ranks faster. Good looking women get sidelined into pretty-face positions.

Women have to be average to slightly-above-average looking, thin but not too thin, fashionable without being slutty or dowdy, done up without going too far - women live on a razor's edge that doesn't exist for men. Everything a woman does is open for judgement, in a way that isn't true for men. Go farking talk to some women. Ask them how stressful buying a skirt is - is it fashionable or slutty to have a hemline 2 inches above their knees? What if they're self-conscious about their knees and want to wear a below-the-knees skirt - will people subconsciously regard them as too conservative and pass them over for big projects or management positions?

Talk to women. Check your assumptions, and listen with an open mind. Remember that all the problems they list - obsessing over being taken seriously, obsessing over avoiding or feeling guilty about inviting unwanted attention, obsessing over their appearance - these are all on top of the normal life stresses. Being a woman doesn't let you off the hook from your health, paying the bills, keeping your car in good working order, and all the other annoyances of life.

If you're not interested in doing this then just recognize that you don't have the perspective and knowledge to empathize with being a woman. You should just consider that many attractive women who age feel relief (and guilt over that relief) when they become "invisible" and are no longer subject to all that extra special attention. Some also feel crushed because most of their male friends were just in it to b ...


This just does not line up with my experiences whatsoever. Maybe things are different in the US, but I don't see women getting "sidelined into pretty-face positions" at all; in fact, I've seen the exact opposite. Maybe it's my particular work history.

Take the military for example, here in Canada. A woman has MUCH lower standards for entry than a man. This isn't a cushy, civilian job, if you are Infantry, you need to be able to carry your gear, another soldier, and all of their gear, out of a fight. Of five women in my unit, only one could ever do that. She was a better soldier than I, to be honest. The others just coasted through. One of them, even at the end of 6 months of solid training, could not do a single pull-up. In the military, you don't just make things "fair" like that; I understand women are generally physically weaker, but that doesn't change the actual job requirements.


But at the same time, I accept that women who experience such harassment aren't just lying. It's frustrating, because I often get lumped into the sort who harass people, and not only do I not DO it, I don't even see evidence of it, at all, in my life. Certainly I see it online - the online community is a mishmash of the whole world, and gender attitudes in most of the world are farked. The Reddit feminist community, in particular, is the worst for this. All men are "privileged" to them; nevermind that men lead tough lives as well, no, let's minimize all problems experienced by men, publicly make sexist comments because "men did it" (nevermind that not all men did or do), and blow up every absolutely miniscule mention of differences in gender as though they're the same as straight up rape.

Like I said, it's frustrating. And I really don't think these blame-men bloggers are at all helping the situation. All they're going to do is make people hate feminists all over again, whether or not they have a salient point to make. Instead of passive aggressive internet articles, how about actually doing something about the harassment? Fight for your right to live harassment free, don't just complain about it on the internet and do absolutely nothing when someone breaks the freaking law against you.
2013-01-19 05:27:55 PM
1 votes:
Women's clothing gets graded for appearance, fashion, and riding the thin line between dowdy and slutty.

It's only graded in this way by other women. The men in your office will only notice what you're wearing if you're showing cleavage. Beyond that, your taste in fashion is invisible and irrelevant.
2013-01-19 05:20:23 PM
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: /would love to have strangers comment on my looks.


Because you need validation from complete strangers why?
2013-01-19 05:14:51 PM
1 votes:

boobsrgood: Find an to feel superior by dehumanizing somebody. We all do it. It's called bigotry. A lot of guys have mommy issues, so women are their toilet of choice. For me, it's religious types. At least I can admit it.


Some of us are not all that good at expressing ourselves in a tender way that the guys would frown upon but that the ladies would warm up to. Once in a while you meet a woman devoid of morals and catcalls are a great way to hook up without the emotional garbage a relationship may entail. Some women actually enjoy sexual hyperbole and find humor in the awkward attempts guys make at communicating their desires. But yeah, once in a while you come across a bully and unsolicited comments are their wepon of choice.
2013-01-19 05:01:55 PM
1 votes:

clowncar on fire: 4seasons85!: The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: 4seasons85!: I'm a woman and I've never been harrassed.

/Not sure if that's a good thing.

//I'll go cry by myself now...

As a man I've never been sexually harassed and I consider that a good thing. Is it different for women?

I'm not sure. I was implying that I may not be pretty enough to be harassed. I was joking. But since it wasn't that funny Im not mad you didn't pick up on it. I promise to do better next time.

/but I can make sandwiches, does that count?

We'll need pics to verify your lack of "prettiness". For all we know- you could be a hot red head oozing of sexuality and trying to play the "not pretty pity point" card.


Prolly not the best time to be trawling for women, amiright?
2013-01-19 04:59:52 PM
1 votes:

The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: UlandaUnicorn: As a 'decent looking' woman, I cry foul at the author. She travels the world and everywhere she goes men follow her and salivate? Doubt it. Get over yourself. You are absolutely paranoid. Rape happens. It isn't something you can prepare for. You can't live life with your kind of mindset and actually enjoy living. Is rape okay? No. Can you change the world with your whining? No. Enjoy your youth while you can because what you don't want is to die tomorrow and everyone know you as the girl who was everyone's victim.

So don't talk about rape and the culture that allows it?


I assume by 'culture' you mean 'any place that human beings currently reside'. Talk away.
2013-01-19 04:53:50 PM
1 votes:

UlandaUnicorn: As a 'decent looking' woman, I cry foul at the author. She travels the world and everywhere she goes men follow her and salivate? Doubt it. Get over yourself. You are absolutely paranoid. Rape happens. It isn't something you can prepare for. You can't live life with your kind of mindset and actually enjoy living. Is rape okay? No. Can you change the world with your whining? No. Enjoy your youth while you can because what you don't want is to die tomorrow and everyone know you as the girl who was everyone's victim.


So don't talk about rape and the culture that allows it?
2013-01-19 04:46:23 PM
1 votes:
As a 'decent looking' woman, I cry foul at the author. She travels the world and everywhere she goes men follow her and salivate? Doubt it. Get over yourself. You are absolutely paranoid. Rape happens. It isn't something you can prepare for. You can't live life with your kind of mindset and actually enjoy living. Is rape okay? No. Can you change the world with your whining? No. Enjoy your youth while you can because what you don't want is to die tomorrow and everyone know you as the girl who was everyone's victim.
2013-01-19 04:35:48 PM
1 votes:

clowncar on fire: You can't really argue the science- there are disparities amongst men and women performing the same task or holding the same title.


Again, you need to account for ALL the factors. Sure Person 'A' may be "performing the same task" as person 'B'. But 'A' performs it faster and/or better. Yes, 'C' and 'D' may hold the same title, but If person 'C' took a year off, they have a years less experience, and will get paid less.
2013-01-19 04:35:18 PM
1 votes:

clowncar on fire: You can't really argue the science- there are disparities amongst men and women performing the same task or holding the same title.


Sure, but not all managers are the same. Someone managing payroll in a petrochemical company earn more than people managing payroll in a daycare. Or what about a middle manager with 10 subordinates, would that manager earn more on an oil rig or in a hospital? Would the personal assistant of the CEO of Shell earn more than the personal assistant of the CEO of some fashion magazine?

Similar jobs, similar job descriptions but very dissimilar job requirements, risk levels and business sectors. Now you get to pick which one would be more likely to be a man and which one would be more likely to be a woman and which would earn more. Job titles and function descriptions are a crappy way to compare jobs.
2013-01-19 04:34:23 PM
1 votes:
Pincy
CasperImproved:

Attack does not assume "rape", although that does happen occasionally.

Again, the article is about sexual harassment and rape and that's what this thread has been about and yet for some reason you keep trying to pretend otherwise. I know you can't really be that obtuse.


Speaking of obtuse people and what the article is about:

Emily Heist Moss is sick and tired of the men who harass her and make her feel unsafe in public spaces.
2013-01-19 04:28:06 PM
1 votes:

CasperImproved: Pincy: CasperImproved: Pincy: CasperImproved: The reality is that we are all vulnerable to attack.

I'm assuming you are a man. You really walk around with the fear that you could be raped?

Are you truly that stupid?

Attack does not assume "rape", although that does happen occasionally.

Again, the article is about sexual harassment and rape and that's what this thread has been about and yet for some reason you keep trying to pretend otherwise. I know you can't really be that obtuse. The overwhelming majority of men do not live in fear of being raped. Unfortunately that can't be said about women.

Funny that you don't understand the definition of "attack". I said stupid. I really meant to say "dense".

BTW, "rape" is not sexually related in most instances. It is a need for dominance, power, and pain. You can when "attacked" be the recipient of those needs from the aggressor without being raped.

I will not reply to you again. There is no discourse with you (much like talking to a rock).


Funny how you keep trying to pretend that rape isn't anything special and women don't need to be concerned with it any more than the average guy walking down the street needs to be concerned with being mugged.

And yes, I know rape is not about sex but about power. And it is still a crime that affects women much more than men. Very few men live their lives in fear of being raped. Wish I could say the same about women.

Please don't reply, because your dishonesty is getting tiresome.
2013-01-19 04:27:03 PM
1 votes:

fredklein: clowncar: hey, you'll get the right to stop getting hit in the nuts when you stop getting paid 25% more than women

If women really got paid so much less for the same work, then why don't companies slash their payroll by hiring only women??

The truth is, women (as a group) get paid less than men (as a group) because of the choices they make: It's mostly men in dangerous, high paying jobs, and mostly women in safer, lower paying jobs. Women are more likely to take time off when they have a kid, thus losing seniority (and thus pay) vs a man who keeps working. Men are more likely to ask for raises and thus are more likely to get raises. And so on.

When ALL the factors are accounted for, women earn the same as men.


You can't really argue the science- there are disparities amongst men and women performing the same task or holding the same title.
2013-01-19 04:23:33 PM
1 votes:

Arthur Jumbles: PanicMan: Arthur Jumbles: PanicMan: Arthur Jumbles: Bedstead Polisher: Arthur Jumbles: Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.

Imagine a fat, mustachioed, smells-like-cigarettes-and-Doritos, sweaty 20 year old woman attempting to grope you, where there's no escape, and she is definitely stronger than you.

Still the stuff of fantasies?

At 15? Sure! Most 15 year old boys are walking ball of hormones and having a willing partner instead of my hand would have been a welcome change. Would I want her as my girlfriend, no..... but as quickie? Why not.

And what if it was a man trapping you in that hospital elevator? How would you feel then?

Completely different situation. The point is that most teenage boys would welcome an advance by an older women and as a result have a hard time understanding why a women wouldn't be interested if the situation was flipped.

I agree. And I'm giving an example that makes it clearer how an unwanted sexual advance feels.

And I'm pointing out how most young men can't emotionally understand why a member of the opposite sex wouldn't appreciate sexual attention since they wouldn't have a problem with it themselves.


I'm trying to make the posters in this thread understand how unwanted sexual advances feel. I don't think all the stupid comments here are just from teenage boys. I hope not anyway.
2013-01-19 04:20:07 PM
1 votes:
The woman in the article has issues, she was photgraphed in India because she was white by "100s" of indians, followed in Spain because "all american girls" have a price, and catcalled in the states.

First she is not that attractive and frumpy girls wearing short shorts wondering around foreign countries tend to get looked at, not because they are attractive, but because they are frumpy and tend to look homeless when they are on vacation.  Then when their chubby asses get home they dress like Betty Paige with push up bras and hooker shows, like they are on mad men, and get mad when they get some attention.

Cool story bro.

I was walking down the street in Manizales, Colombia with the wife on my arm and pointed out two of the frumpiest gringas I have ever seen.  It was about 65 out and drizzly.  they were both wearing cut off shorts, flip flops, and some "faux" vintage tshirts they probably got from snorg. Dirty ass feet.

Since they thought that no one could speak english they were going on about how good looking the men were in the town, and how they were going to show the Colombianas what was what in the man catching business.

For about five blocks I had to hear these awful examples of the US yak about how they have been in the country one day and all eyes are on them.

All eyes were on them, not because they were attractive, but because they were complete slobs and the people looking were shocked they would go out in public like that.

A few days later I was in my local drinking some beers with some Colombian buddies and those two walk in, same outfits, sit down at the bar next to us, and start talking with us, asking us where the could meet single men, because they had not had any luck.
I gave them the name of a few night clubs, but what I wanted to say was "Take a shower, get in shape, dress it up a bit, ladies if you have not noticed you are in a Colombian university town, and Colombian women are gorgeous, and look and dress the part, and quite honestly most people maids here take better care of themselves".

Over the last decade I have seen American women just become frumpy but expect of of the men to be brad pitt.
Easier to get a pretty girl than an ugly one.
2013-01-19 04:18:49 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: ExperianScaresCthulhu: cosmiquemuffin: DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other.

Sooooo... Men catcall to each other on the street about their asses and sucking their dicks?

Men catcall to each other talking shiat about each other. Catcalls are steam release. They're annoying as fk. But that's not rape. Like Bunner said, above, it's about the reaction. Witty people get props. People who try to be witty but fail get laughed at as well as continued annoying attention. People who ignore are forgotten within seconds, for the next target. People who make a show of being offended get laughed at and continued annoying attention.

People who show fear get it worse.

It's annoying, it sucks, it's a drain -- but it's not rape.

This, people who cat-call also tend to be big shiat talkers to any and everyone. The only thing that's sexist is the subject matter chosen based on the gender of the "victim", and well, most of the time they choose right because it pisses people off, by and large, and even as the article shows, it works. The "victim" hands over the "win" by getting all upset.

IMO, it can be a good simple test of personality. No one with any sense of a laid back attitude wants to be friends with people wound up so tight they can't take a joke. It's a good way to weed out the moral conservatives with little effort.

Sure, many people take it to extremes, but whatever, it's a free country. You don't have to love and except them, just ignore them.


I agree that women should probably just ignore them. I think that other men should be the one's to tell them to shut the hell up.
2013-01-19 04:18:01 PM
1 votes:

Frederick: So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salaries,  undeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?


OMG this, thank you and fark-you to all those vagina discharges that biatch about getting checked out. The minute a unattractive person hits on you and you turn your nose up, remember what its like. No pity here.
2013-01-19 04:16:44 PM
1 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: cosmiquemuffin: DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other.

Sooooo... Men catcall to each other on the street about their asses and sucking their dicks?

Men catcall to each other talking shiat about each other. Catcalls are steam release. They're annoying as fk. But that's not rape. Like Bunner said, above, it's about the reaction. Witty people get props. People who try to be witty but fail get laughed at as well as continued annoying attention. People who ignore are forgotten within seconds, for the next target. People who make a show of being offended get laughed at and continued annoying attention.

People who show fear get it worse.

It's annoying, it sucks, it's a drain -- but it's not rape.


The scary part is that sometimes unwanted catcalls, sexual banter, and unsolicited comments actually work- not always, but sometimes. As mentioned above- men like to crack on each other . It's how we test each other's moods, egos, morals, etc. Sometimes we apply this to women outside our circle in an attempt to guage their morals and moods as well. The real art to "catcalling" is to distinguish the subtle differences of a repartee and a defensive "no, I really am not really in this type of attention". With guys, we recognize "too much information" or "enough, already" as cue to change the subject. Unless we hear something like "fark off" or a clearly expressed lack of interest, we'll keep poking and prodding. We're not always in tune with your subtle eye gestures, looking away or silence.

Try not to mix us up with the genuine artical that uses sexual harassment as a form of bullying- even drunk the rest of us are smart enough to recognize a polite "no thanks".
2013-01-19 04:10:50 PM
1 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu: cosmiquemuffin: DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other.

Sooooo... Men catcall to each other on the street about their asses and sucking their dicks?

Men catcall to each other talking shiat about each other. Catcalls are steam release. They're annoying as fk. But that's not rape. Like Bunner said, above, it's about the reaction. Witty people get props. People who try to be witty but fail get laughed at as well as continued annoying attention. People who ignore are forgotten within seconds, for the next target. People who make a show of being offended get laughed at and continued annoying attention.

People who show fear get it worse.

It's annoying, it sucks, it's a drain -- but it's not rape.


The problem is women are taught incorrectly. They're taught that it IS almost as bad, and so it's difficult to respond properly.

And men certainly do similar shiat-talking to each other, but between strangers that usually requires an uncommon instigation between them. Women are much more likely to be targeted out of the blue. Between acquaintances, men certainly get it just as much as women.
2013-01-19 04:07:27 PM
1 votes:
The writer's problem is location. Solution to the harassment? Move to a place where people are more well mannered. I won't say I've never experienced what she's talking about, but I will say it's been a very rare thing- and it's only happened when I was away from home. ( Most of the time I've encountered this sort of nonsense, it's been in a vacation spot, or outside a nightclub/bar.) If people are hooting at you while you're going about your normal, everyday business? You live in jerkville, jerk city, USA, and you need to relocate, badly.
2013-01-19 04:02:58 PM
1 votes:

onyxruby: Pincy: Show me the statistics that show that men are anywhere close to women in being sexually harassed and then we'll talk.

Does family court count?


No. That it is a separate thing.
2013-01-19 04:00:58 PM
1 votes:

Bisu: UndeadPoetsSociety: Parmenius: I wonder how many people in this thread would have the courage to make their comments in person.  I wonder whether they actually conduct themselves in this barbaric way, or if it's just the Internet Misogyny Brigade.

I have  never treated women -or anyone else- as depicted in tfa, but I've certainly had to deal with the effects  of their foolishness.  And, with rare exceptions, if someone is behaving with all the civility of a gutter snipe it is a man doing it.  I really dislike having to prove that those jackasses don't represent my gender, and threads like this do not help.

THIS so incredibly much

Yet you don't realize your words are making men on the fence think every woman is as psycho and sexist as the article writer.

You do realize that I'm male, you total dipshiat? You do realize that, don't you? That I'm agreeing with the writer of the article that men who behave in the way she describes are a problem, and that it's very widespread, and that it needs to farking stop? You, saying this, have declared yourself part of the problem. So fark you, you worthless asshole, and have a nice day.
2013-01-19 03:56:44 PM
1 votes:

PsiChick: One Bad Apple: PsiChick: One Bad Apple: Wow. There's a lot of biatches in here that must have had an especially long walk of shame this morning.

So, what age were you when your mom told you to always hold your keys out under your knuckles in case you need to fight someone, and that you should take self-defense classes together as mother-daughter bonding time? I was about twelve. Most girls are around that age. And no, my mom's not paranoid. Part of 'the talk' is when you share your near-rape experience with your daughter and explain how you got away, because that happens to every woman.

Because shiatstains like you call anyone who brings up a harassment charge a whiny biatch who needs to get laid. I'm sure you don't know what 'obstruction of justice' means, but you and your ilk are walking examples of it.


I first saw an improvised key ring bagh nahk used by an uncle of mine when I was 9 or 10. The guy he hit was blinded in one eye as a result. He kept that eye in a jar of rubbing alcohol for years and showed it to everyone.

We all carried some kind of weapon even as kids and they got used. A padlock with a handkerchief tied around it was my favorite. My own daughter is 7 and I have taught her stuff I withheld from her older brothers because I know if she uses them she will not be held to the same standards as them for discipline

Complaining about being harassed isn't what makes you (or anyone) a whiny biatch it is the idea that being a victim is a burden somehow exclusive to you because of your gender.

Oh, I'm not saying there aren't other, gender-neutral threats out there. But nowhere in that am I seeing that you have any f**king  clue what it's like to live in a world where you run the risk of being sexually harassed every time you step out the door, or when a stranger walks with you it's a fine line between not being a 'frigid biatch' and trying to be frosty enough so if you're raped, people won't claim it was your fault, or what it's like to have to  teac ...


You DON'T have to teach her that. Now she'll end up as cold and bitter as you. You're definitely not close to the "fine line." You're pretty clearly on one side of it.

And how you choose to see men is pathetic. Because not 100% of guilty men are found guilty of their crimes, you claim you HAVE to treat ALL MEN like they are guilty. That's some great logic there. So it's better for tens of millions of innocent men to be seen as guilty than thousands of guilty men to be seen as innocent? So you believe in the OPPOSITE of Blackstone's formulation.

I HOPE HOPE HOPE you are trolling or exaggerating.
2013-01-19 03:50:49 PM
1 votes:
I'm a woman and I've never been harrassed.

/Not sure if that's a good thing.

//I'll go cry by myself now...
2013-01-19 03:47:11 PM
1 votes:

One Bad Apple: PsiChick: One Bad Apple: Wow. There's a lot of biatches in here that must have had an especially long walk of shame this morning.

So, what age were you when your mom told you to always hold your keys out under your knuckles in case you need to fight someone, and that you should take self-defense classes together as mother-daughter bonding time? I was about twelve. Most girls are around that age. And no, my mom's not paranoid. Part of 'the talk' is when you share your near-rape experience with your daughter and explain how you got away, because that happens to every woman.

Because shiatstains like you call anyone who brings up a harassment charge a whiny biatch who needs to get laid. I'm sure you don't know what 'obstruction of justice' means, but you and your ilk are walking examples of it.


I first saw an improvised key ring bagh nahk used by an uncle of mine when I was 9 or 10. The guy he hit was blinded in one eye as a result. He kept that eye in a jar of rubbing alcohol for years and showed it to everyone.

We all carried some kind of weapon even as kids and they got used. A padlock with a handkerchief tied around it was my favorite. My own daughter is 7 and I have taught her stuff I withheld from her older brothers because I know if she uses them she will not be held to the same standards as them for discipline

Complaining about being harassed isn't what makes you (or anyone) a whiny biatch it is the idea that being a victim is a burden somehow exclusive to you because of your gender.


Oh, I'm not saying there aren't other, gender-neutral threats out there. But nowhere in that am I seeing that you have any f**king  clue what it's like to live in a world where you run the risk of being sexually harassed every time you step out the door, or when a stranger walks with you it's a fine line between not being a 'frigid biatch' and trying to be frosty enough so if you're raped, people won't claim it was your fault, or what it's like to have to  teach your daughters this.

Go read a Fark thread about date rape sometime. See why women do this shiat. See why men are demonized. Because when men who break the law aren't punished, there is no option beyond viewing all men as a threat. Want to fix it? Punish people who break the law. Don't excuse them because your uncle got in a fight and you happen to like fighting. And don't pretend your love of fighting is the same as being constantly on your guard because your boobs paint a target on your back.
2013-01-19 03:43:42 PM
1 votes:

PanicMan: Arthur Jumbles: PanicMan: Arthur Jumbles: Bedstead Polisher: Arthur Jumbles: Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.

Imagine a fat, mustachioed, smells-like-cigarettes-and-Doritos, sweaty 20 year old woman attempting to grope you, where there's no escape, and she is definitely stronger than you.

Still the stuff of fantasies?

At 15? Sure! Most 15 year old boys are walking ball of hormones and having a willing partner instead of my hand would have been a welcome change. Would I want her as my girlfriend, no..... but as quickie? Why not.

And what if it was a man trapping you in that hospital elevator? How would you feel then?

Completely different situation. The point is that most teenage boys would welcome an advance by an older women and as a result have a hard time understanding why a women wouldn't be interested if the situation was flipped.

I agree. And I'm giving an example that makes it clearer how an unwanted sexual advance feels.


And I'm pointing out how most young men can't emotionally understand why a member of the opposite sex wouldn't appreciate sexual attention since they wouldn't have a problem with it themselves.
2013-01-19 03:37:38 PM
1 votes:

DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other.


Sooooo... Men catcall to each other on the street about their asses and sucking their dicks?
2013-01-19 03:33:19 PM
1 votes:

Tatterdemalian: /so either develop psychic/precognitive powers, or go into exile with the rest of the "misogynists"


I think you mean:
"Be Attractive"
...
"Don't be unattractive"
2013-01-19 03:21:52 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: bunner: Coastalgrl: bunner: Coastalgrl: Here's a double standard I have encountered.

How come a guy can put two fingers to his lips and snake his tounge through the opening but it's illegal for me to flick him off?

Because that man is an arrogant, bedwetting, butterheaded dolt with the intelligence quotient of a piss pail who thinks that dating consists of making women feel uncomfortable and then laughing about it with his also thick as pigsh*t friends. And we haven't found a cure for that yet.

I agree with your statement but it doesn't answer the question. The act of flipping him off is a non-violent way of telling him I'm not interested and to buzz off. However, I'm told that I can actually get arrested by giving him the finger but it's ok for him to gesture to me that he would like to perform oral on me.

For one thing, no cop with any dignity is going to drag a girl to jail for giving the finger to a jerk. All you'd have to do is tell them that you felt threatened and they'd have him hugging a wall. And, FWIW, guess what dickbag the cunnilingus salesman is looking for. A reaction. You gave him one. Don't. Stare through him like you just saw him sh*tting on on the sidewalk and hoof on.

I kind of agree with you here about giving him a reaction. The reaction he should be getting is from other men telling him that he's a disgusting pervert.


I've definitely done that. The only difficulty is you don't know whether it will make the woman feel better or worse. It could just be more unwanted attention, or it could make her relieved that I'm now the target of any further attacks instead of her. She could interpret it as me seeing her as a defenseless victim and be offended of my intervention, or she could feel comfort in the fact that someone is on her side. Women like the article writer would undoubtedly be offended by my intervention into her victimization, whereas more rational women would probably welcome it.
2013-01-19 03:21:22 PM
1 votes:

clowncar: I guess the gender-reversed issue would be this:

Imagine that women think it's funny to hit strange men in the nuts if they're not paying attention when they walk by. The woman's girlfriends giggle when she does it, the men glare after they've been hit and shuffle off.

The men try to explain to women that it HURTS when women hit them in the nuts. The women explain that guys are asking for it when they're walking without holding an object or their hands in front of their crotches when they're walking down the street.

Men say they're NOT ASKING FOR IT just because they're swinging their arms at their sides as they walk down the street, and women say, hey, you'll get the right to stop getting hit in the nuts when you stop getting paid 25% more than women and stop discriminating against women when considering management positions.


Except for the fact that saying "You look nice. Wanna go out with me?" is absolutely nothing like physically assaulting someone. Even saying "Hey, mamacita, nice ass!" is nothing like physically assaulting someone. Even looking a woman up and down, licking your lips and saying "I'd like to fark your taco" is... say it with me...absolutely nothing like physically assaulting someone.

Other then that, it's a good analogy.
2013-01-19 03:20:21 PM
1 votes:

DrPainMD: The author, and most of the commenters, needs to grow a pair.


This was an interesting, if not new, piece. Germaine Greer was writing essentially this, with more wit, 40 years ago. I found this " I almost fell into the trap of proving to you how undeserving we were of harassment and I'm embarrassed to admit that to you now." the most revealing bit, because it's been my experience that for every male who only semi-realizes he's making unwelcome and unsolicited advances in form of "sexy talk" (the test being "would you say this to a man, buddy?"), there's a woman ready to undercut other women by arguing "she asked for it" through dress, makeup, or merely being young and not hideous, as if young and not hideous is the day pass to harrassment. Perhaps remembering the few brief years at the end of my own teens when I looked good to gay chickenhawks, and thus caught some uninvited attention/ass grabs from guys who looked like steroidal Javier Bardems, is colouring my attitude here. Yeah, probably.

I'm under no illusions such a piece will change many minds, and how elements of it seemed whiny/"white women's problems", but still found it worth the read.
2013-01-19 03:09:21 PM
1 votes:

bunner: Coastalgrl: bunner: Coastalgrl: Here's a double standard I have encountered.

How come a guy can put two fingers to his lips and snake his tounge through the opening but it's illegal for me to flick him off?

Because that man is an arrogant, bedwetting, butterheaded dolt with the intelligence quotient of a piss pail who thinks that dating consists of making women feel uncomfortable and then laughing about it with his also thick as pigsh*t friends. And we haven't found a cure for that yet.

I agree with your statement but it doesn't answer the question. The act of flipping him off is a non-violent way of telling him I'm not interested and to buzz off. However, I'm told that I can actually get arrested by giving him the finger but it's ok for him to gesture to me that he would like to perform oral on me.

For one thing, no cop with any dignity is going to drag a girl to jail for giving the finger to a jerk. All you'd have to do is tell them that you felt threatened and they'd have him hugging a wall. And, FWIW, guess what dickbag the cunnilingus salesman is looking for. A reaction. You gave him one. Don't. Stare through him like you just saw him sh*tting on on the sidewalk and hoof on.


I kind of agree with you here about giving him a reaction. The reaction he should be getting is from other men telling him that he's a disgusting pervert.
2013-01-19 03:08:28 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: Mambo Bananapatch: Pincy: CasperImproved: The reality is that we are all vulnerable to attack.

I'm assuming you are a man. You really walk around with the fear that you could be raped?

Do you suppose that's the only bad thing that could ever happen to anybody?

Umm, pretty sure the article we are discussing in this thread is about sexual harassment and rape. But I know, anybody at any time could be shot by some roving gang of thugs so women should just shut up about it.


Violent crime is violent crime. Trying to make it sound like women suffer it more than say, a gay man who got beat within an inch of his life, is very intellectually dishonest, and the kind of ultra feminism that gets on reasonable people's nerves, regardless of gender/sex.

The article is a guide for the conversation, not a strict rule book. That's how conversation works, it ebbs and flows and gets carried off into places where the article is lacking.

Getting hit on when you don't want it, or in a manner that you find annoying is no different than a thousand other ways other people get annoyed by ignorant assholes. They're all born of the same human flaw of a lack of empathy and understanding and tolerance.

You are not special because you have a vagina, or because you like to pretend as if you do. The world is absolutely full of assholes of all varieties, the thing is, most of them are not criminal. Most of the behavior from them is merely annoying, no less annoying than your own personal faults.

What you find distasteful is just that. however, your behavior of flaunting that here denotes yet another brand of ass-holiness. Some people find solace in their supposedly superior morals, some in their supposedly superior etiquette, some in their supposedly superior diet(or physique, or language dialect, or above and beyond grooming habits, political stance, etc). These people with superiority complexes are assholes because they clearly and consistently hold themselves above people that think a little bit differently, even if only slightly.

You come across as one of those types, possessing of an irrational stubbornness. If you do not mean to, if you are genuinely merely ignorant, I suggest you work on rectifying that.
2013-01-19 03:08:01 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: halB: Pincy: douchebag/hater: shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.

You, kind woman, are missing the point and that point is this:

SOME men are jerks, SOME MEN. NOT 'most men'. NOT a 'majority of men. NOT EVEN a substantial minority of men.

You and the writer need to get a grip. The small coterie of guys that are pigs in public is a fact of life and for YOU to get all butthurt over a tiny percentage of men with poor social skills shows that you've learned nothing about life in however many years you've been around.

As for dragging a hypothetical daughter into the discuss is a move worthy of every feminist and liberal hack around right up to Barack Obama.

'It's for the children'. What bull shiat.

If YOU aren't raising your daughter to be alert and aware and able to defend herself, if need be, makes YOU a shiatty mom.

Look at the world the way it is, NOT the way you wish/want it to be.

Farking allah, women (and men) like you are boring and self-centered.

And you are missing the point that sexual harassment and especially rape happens a ton more to women than it does to men.

The majority of rape in America is man on man.

So you as a man (I'm assuming you are a man from your user name) are always thinking in the back of your mind wherever you go that you could be raped and you need to be aware of any men in your environment? And all of your male friends feel the same way too? And your father had a talk with you when you were a young kid warning you about the possibility that you might be raped by a man someday and how you can protect yourself?


I'd hope he didn't have that talk. The way they brainwash girls with those "talks" is disgusting. Every man is a potential rapist. Anyone who gives you any unwanted attention is a stalker. Even university freshman are required to take little mini-courses ingraining the bullshiat into every female student before they can enroll in classes.

Men feel fear of something bad happening. They're not visualizing being raped (for the most part), but of being attacked in some way. It could be being robbed, beaten, murdered, raped, or just being confronted and made uncomfortable. Perhaps it's worse in women (this could never be proven either way since no one knows what it's like on both sides), but an unarmed man is just about as vulnerable as an unarmed woman against an armed assailant.
2013-01-19 03:06:07 PM
1 votes:

Tatterdemalian: Reminds me of this comment by Richard Dawkins, regarding Rebecca Watson:

"The man in the elevator didn't physically touch her, didn't attempt to bar her way out of the elevator, didn't even use foul language at her. He spoke some words to her. Just words. She no doubt replied with words. That was that. Words. Only words, and apparently quite polite words at that....Rebecca's feeling that the man's proposition was 'creepy' was her own interpretation of his behavior, presumably not his. She was probably offended to about the same extent as I am offended if a man gets into an elevator with me chewing gum. But he does me no physical damage and I simply grin and bear it until either I or he gets out of the elevator. It would be different if he physically attacked me."

The problem is that some people think the world would be a better place if words were more important than deeds, simply because it's easier to speak words than perform deeds. These people have attained sufficient political power to transform the system into one in which words are, in fact, treated by the law as more important than deeds, to the degree than even deeds like rape and murder can be excused if the magic words "I know that was wrong, and I apologize" are uttered by the criminal, while dissenting opinions are met with the "social justice" of permanent exile, if not "morally justified homicide."


The crazy part about that is the guy in the elevator was someone she had been hanging out with all night.. She appears not to have recognized him, because of a brain disorder she has. Seriously
2013-01-19 03:05:34 PM
1 votes:
I guess the gender-reversed issue would be this:

Imagine that women think it's funny to hit strange men in the nuts if they're not paying attention when they walk by. The woman's girlfriends giggle when she does it, the men glare after they've been hit and shuffle off.

The men try to explain to women that it HURTS when women hit them in the nuts. The women explain that guys are asking for it when they're walking without holding an object or their hands in front of their crotches when they're walking down the street.

Men say they're NOT ASKING FOR IT just because they're swinging their arms at their sides as they walk down the street, and women say, hey, you'll get the right to stop getting hit in the nuts when you stop getting paid 25% more than women and stop discriminating against women when considering management positions.
2013-01-19 03:04:26 PM
1 votes:

PanicMan: Arthur Jumbles: Bedstead Polisher: Arthur Jumbles: Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.

Imagine a fat, mustachioed, smells-like-cigarettes-and-Doritos, sweaty 20 year old woman attempting to grope you, where there's no escape, and she is definitely stronger than you.

Still the stuff of fantasies?

At 15? Sure! Most 15 year old boys are walking ball of hormones and having a willing partner instead of my hand would have been a welcome change. Would I want her as my girlfriend, no..... but as quickie? Why not.

And what if it was a man trapping you in that hospital elevator? How would you feel then?


Completely different situation. The point is that most teenage boys would welcome an advance by an older women and as a result have a hard time understanding why a women wouldn't be interested if the situation was flipped.
2013-01-19 03:03:27 PM
1 votes:

evoke: EmmaLou: I really wish men could have that feeling that women do when we're walking alone or in a group with 2 or 3 girls and knowing that at any moment you could be attacked. The feeling of being so vulnerable is lost on men. However, every single one if their mothers, gfs, sisters, daughters, etc...have felt this on a regular basis. It's not a matter of age or attractiveness.

Like you know what men feel like. Ever? A man is much more likely to get randomly attacked than a woman. That's a statistical fact.


Men are chastised because they don't know what it's like to be a woman (and therefore react differently).
Women, however, somehow know exactly what it's like to be a man.

If being a man is so great, how come there's a disproportionate number of young white men committing suicide?
2013-01-19 03:00:19 PM
1 votes:

Mambo Bananapatch: Pincy: Mambo Bananapatch: Pincy: CasperImproved: The reality is that we are all vulnerable to attack.

I'm assuming you are a man. You really walk around with the fear that you could be raped?

Do you suppose that's the only bad thing that could ever happen to anybody?

Umm, pretty sure the article we are discussing in this thread is about sexual harassment and rape. But I know, anybody at any time could be shot by some roving gang of thugs so women should just shut up about it.

Ummmmm, the comment you quoted said, "we are all vulnerable to attack." See that, right there in your post?

Ummmmmmmmmmm, and you replied, "You really walk around with the fear that you could be raped?"

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, I gently reminded you that while a man may not fear rape, he still understands fear, which, incidentally, is at the essence of this matter.

If you need further clarification please just ask.


Everyone understands fear. Men do not understand rape like women do. Pretending otherwise is willful ignorance. The only reason the poster said "we are all vulnerable to attack." is to try and mitigate the whole point of the article in the first place.
2013-01-19 02:59:32 PM
1 votes:

Moriel: Came for the flood of ignorant, sexist jerks who promote a society that is dangerous to women.

Leaving .... well "satisfied" isn't quite the right word is it?


These "jerks" you're referring to are women like the writer, right? Because they're the ones promoting the society you talk about. Whatever those women can't get in life off their looks, they get by playing the victim card. Sad how bad it makes other women look.
2013-01-19 02:58:52 PM
1 votes:

EmmaLou: I really wish men could have that feeling that women do when we're walking alone or in a group with 2 or 3 girls and knowing that at any moment you could be attacked. The feeling of being so vulnerable is lost on men. However, every single one if their mothers, gfs, sisters, daughters, etc...have felt this on a regular basis. It's not a matter of age or attractiveness.



Do you honestly believe that men never feel afraid or vulnerable under any circumstances? That we don't walk through areas of potential danger watching our backs, jumping at every sound, with our car keys protruding from our fingers?

Your naiveté is astonishing.
2013-01-19 02:58:44 PM
1 votes:

Arthur Jumbles: Bedstead Polisher: Arthur Jumbles: Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.

Imagine a fat, mustachioed, smells-like-cigarettes-and-Doritos, sweaty 20 year old woman attempting to grope you, where there's no escape, and she is definitely stronger than you.

Still the stuff of fantasies?

At 15? Sure! Most 15 year old boys are walking ball of hormones and having a willing partner instead of my hand would have been a welcome change. Would I want her as my girlfriend, no..... but as quickie? Why not.


And what if it was a man trapping you in that hospital elevator? How would you feel then?
2013-01-19 02:56:54 PM
1 votes:

halB: Pincy: douchebag/hater: shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.

You, kind woman, are missing the point and that point is this:

SOME men are jerks, SOME MEN. NOT 'most men'. NOT a 'majority of men. NOT EVEN a substantial minority of men.

You and the writer need to get a grip. The small coterie of guys that are pigs in public is a fact of life and for YOU to get all butthurt over a tiny percentage of men with poor social skills shows that you've learned nothing about life in however many years you've been around.

As for dragging a hypothetical daughter into the discuss is a move worthy of every feminist and liberal hack around right up to Barack Obama.

'It's for the children'. What bull shiat.

If YOU aren't raising your daughter to be alert and aware and able to defend herself, if need be, makes YOU a shiatty mom.

Look at the world the way it is, NOT the way you wish/want it to be.

Farking allah, women (and men) like you are boring and self-centered.

And you are missing the point that sexual harassment and especially rape happens a ton more to women than it does to men.

The majority of rape in America is man on man.


So you as a man (I'm assuming you are a man from your user name) are always thinking in the back of your mind wherever you go that you could be raped and you need to be aware of any men in your environment? And all of your male friends feel the same way too? And your father had a talk with you when you were a young kid warning you about the possibility that you might be raped by a man someday and how you can protect yourself?
2013-01-19 02:56:39 PM
1 votes:

onyxruby: gilgigamesh: t may be regional. I live in the South. There's a certain gentility factor: women who work in my office have the door held open for them, men wait for them to exit the elevator before exiting themselves, that sort of thing

When I was about 22 or so I held the door open for a woman with a large armful of binders (10 inch stack). I walked on and she called out demanding that I stop. I was chewed as she explained that she had 'two perfectly good working arms' and started chewing me out in the hallway in front of everyone as she busily declared I was a sexist pig.

I was working for very well known company in their headquarters building, my office happened to be right near human resources. Turned out she worked in human resources and she decided to go full bore feminazi on me.

I was formally written up for sexual harassment, I was forced to go to sensitivity training where I was taught that as a white male that I am inherently evil. I was told that if there was ever another incident I would be fired. My career in that corporation was ruined, all for a woman that I never talked to, touched, or even gawked at. Literally all I did, all I was accused of doing, was holding the door open for her.

For years after that I refused to hold the door open for anyone woman at work, letting it shut behind me without care. Now I know better, but when your young your easy prey for someone like that.


You should have filed a lawsuit. Your career there was ruined anyway. As a man, being accused by a woman makes you guilty. At least you could force her to try to prove your intent in front of a judge (and hope it's a male judge).
2013-01-19 02:55:40 PM
1 votes:

Bedstead Polisher: Arthur Jumbles: Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.

Imagine a fat, mustachioed, smells-like-cigarettes-and-Doritos, sweaty 20 year old woman attempting to grope you, where there's no escape, and she is definitely stronger than you.

Still the stuff of fantasies?


At 15? Sure! Most 15 year old boys are walking ball of hormones and having a willing partner instead of my hand would have been a welcome change. Would I want her as my girlfriend, no..... but as quickie? Why not.
2013-01-19 02:55:28 PM
1 votes:

EmmaLou: I really wish men could have that feeling that women do when we're walking alone or in a group with 2 or 3 girls and knowing that at any moment you could be attacked. The feeling of being so vulnerable is lost on men. However, every single one if their mothers, gfs, sisters, daughters, etc...have felt this on a regular basis. It's not a matter of age or attractiveness.


Like you know what men feel like. Ever? A man is much more likely to get randomly attacked than a woman. That's a statistical fact.
2013-01-19 02:52:04 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: douchebag/hater: shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.

You, kind woman, are missing the point and that point is this:

SOME men are jerks, SOME MEN. NOT 'most men'. NOT a 'majority of men. NOT EVEN a substantial minority of men.

You and the writer need to get a grip. The small coterie of guys that are pigs in public is a fact of life and for YOU to get all butthurt over a tiny percentage of men with poor social skills shows that you've learned nothing about life in however many years you've been around.

As for dragging a hypothetical daughter into the discuss is a move worthy of every feminist and liberal hack around right up to Barack Obama.

'It's for the children'. What bull shiat.

If YOU aren't raising your daughter to be alert and aware and able to defend herself, if need be, makes YOU a shiatty mom.

Look at the world the way it is, NOT the way you wish/want it to be.

Farking allah, women (and men) like you are boring and self-centered.

And you are missing the point that sexual harassment and especially rape happens a ton more to women than it does to men.


The majority of rape in America is man on man.
2013-01-19 02:51:46 PM
1 votes:

Mambo Bananapatch: Pincy: CasperImproved: The reality is that we are all vulnerable to attack.

I'm assuming you are a man. You really walk around with the fear that you could be raped?

Do you suppose that's the only bad thing that could ever happen to anybody?


Umm, pretty sure the article we are discussing in this thread is about sexual harassment and rape. But I know, anybody at any time could be shot by some roving gang of thugs so women should just shut up about it.
2013-01-19 02:44:47 PM
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: t may be regional. I live in the South. There's a certain gentility factor: women who work in my office have the door held open for them, men wait for them to exit the elevator before exiting themselves, that sort of thing


When I was about 22 or so I held the door open for a woman with a large armful of binders (10 inch stack). I walked on and she called out demanding that I stop. I was chewed as she explained that she had 'two perfectly good working arms' and started chewing me out in the hallway in front of everyone as she busily declared I was a sexist pig.

I was working for very well known company in their headquarters building, my office happened to be right near human resources. Turned out she worked in human resources and she decided to go full bore feminazi on me.

I was formally written up for sexual harassment, I was forced to go to sensitivity training where I was taught that as a white male that I am inherently evil. I was told that if there was ever another incident I would be fired. My career in that corporation was ruined, all for a woman that I never talked to, touched, or even gawked at. Literally all I did, all I was accused of doing, was holding the door open for her.

For years after that I refused to hold the door open for anyone woman at work, letting it shut behind me without care. Now I know better, but when your young your easy prey for someone like that.
2013-01-19 02:42:03 PM
1 votes:

Bored Horde: Frederick: So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salaries,  undeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?

Good looking men get more money and raise through the ranks faster. Good looking women get sidelined into pretty-face positions.

Women have to be average to slightly-above-average looking, thin but not too thin, fashionable without being slutty or dowdy, done up without going too far - women live on a razor's edge that doesn't exist for men. Everything a woman does is open for judgement, in a way that isn't true for men. Go farking talk to some women. Ask them how stressful buying a skirt is - is it fashionable or slutty to have a hemline 2 inches above their knees? What if they're self-conscious about their knees and want to wear a below-the-knees skirt - will people subconsciously regard them as too conservative and pass them over for big projects or management positions?

Talk to women. Check your assumptions, and listen with an open mind. Remember that all the problems they list - obsessing over being taken seriously, obsessing over avoiding or feeling guilty about inviting unwanted attention, obsessing over their appearance - these are all on top of the normal life stresses. Being a woman doesn't let you off the hook from your health, paying the bills, keeping your car in good working order, and all the other annoyances of life.

If you're not interested in doing this then just recognize that you don't have the perspective and knowledge to empathize with being a woman. You should just consider that many attractive women who age feel relief (and guilt over that relief) when they become "invisible" and are no longer subject to all that extra special attention. Some also feel crushed because most of their male friends were just in it to b ...


Good advice there, Bub. I'm sure women are not AT ALL BIASED as to how bad it is to be them. I'm sure they have this magical ability to see what it's like on both sides and explain it in a completely accurate manner how they'd give up all the benefits of their looks if it meant not being treated like an object. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure they would.
2013-01-19 02:40:19 PM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: Whenever an innocent man goes to prison for rape, you just have one more person who thinks, "why not become a rapist? what have I to lose if I will be punished and stigmatised anyway".


Wow, just wow. Words cannot describe just how idiotic that statement is.

I really hope your trolling because if you sincerely believe the stuff that you have been spewing in this thread then I feel bad for the women in your life.
2013-01-19 02:39:47 PM
1 votes:

DeathCipris: OK, I am throwing in my two cents on this.
Yes, the guys FTA are assholes. They are douchebags that hoot and holler at any female that accidentally walks near them. This shiat happens.
HOWEVER
The woman in the article comes off quite feminazi to me when she starts her little rant about men and why can't men this. They are douchebags...yes, there are a lot of them. There are also aspects of life these douchebags play a role in too. Please see shiathead that cuts you off in traffic to make a turn immediately or the dumbass that wants to fight with the cashier at "t3h costco" over the price of a satchel of oranges. They may not be hooting and hollering at women, but they are still being asswipes.


Jesus. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't put it on. She references only people making sexually harassing comments and behavior. If you don't do those things, she is not referring to you. I shouldn't have to explain this to you, but for some strange reason the same issue comes up every time a woman complains about street harassment. I'd really like to hear your explanation for why people like you always get feel threatened or attacked. Why is it, do you think?
2013-01-19 02:39:16 PM
1 votes:

EmmaLou: I really wish men could have that feeling that women do when we're walking alone or in a group with 2 or 3 girls and knowing that at any moment you could be attacked. The feeling of being so vulnerable is lost on men. However, every single one if their mothers, gfs, sisters, daughters, etc...have felt this on a regular basis. It's not a matter of age or attractiveness.


You think that as a 6'1" 175lb man I have NEVER felt scared for my safety walking down the street? Or in a dark parking garage? Holy hell, we're all fragile bags of skin just waiting to bleed out.

Yes it's worse for women, but to imply that men have no idea what it is to feel fear is just plain inaccurate.
2013-01-19 02:35:04 PM
1 votes:

DeathCipris: OK, I am throwing in my two cents on this.
Yes, the guys FTA are assholes. They are douchebags that hoot and holler at any female that accidentally walks near them. This shiat happens.
HOWEVER
The woman in the article comes off quite feminazi to me when she starts her little rant about men and why can't men this. They are douchebags...yes, there are a lot of them. There are also aspects of life these douchebags play a role in too. Please see shiathead that cuts you off in traffic to make a turn immediately or the dumbass that wants to fight with the cashier at "t3h costco" over the price of a satchel of oranges. They may not be hooting and hollering at women, but they are still being asswipes.


Point being, there are assholes everywhere. This is just another example. Blaming all of "man" because there are some shiatheads yelling things at you is ignorant.
2013-01-19 02:33:24 PM
1 votes:
OK, I am throwing in my two cents on this.
Yes, the guys FTA are assholes. They are douchebags that hoot and holler at any female that accidentally walks near them. This shiat happens.
HOWEVER
The woman in the article comes off quite feminazi to me when she starts her little rant about men and why can't men this. They are douchebags...yes, there are a lot of them. There are also aspects of life these douchebags play a role in too. Please see shiathead that cuts you off in traffic to make a turn immediately or the dumbass that wants to fight with the cashier at "t3h costco" over the price of a satchel of oranges. They may not be hooting and hollering at women, but they are still being asswipes.
2013-01-19 02:28:35 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: THE GREAT NAME: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: Mambo Bananapatch: Lehk: WhippingBoy: 1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men

no, the suggestion is that women have to deal with that shiat every DAY and men might deal with it a couple times a year.

I would give five years off my life to have to deal with it one single time.

I was 15 years old and volunteering in the old Union Hospital in Lynn, MA. My job was to deliver flowers to patients. I had just boarded the old service elevator at the back of the hospital and was closing the accordion door when one of the kitchen staff, a guy in his mid 20's, blocked the door, boarded too, and took over the controls, which were the old fashioned brass lever to go between floor. He stopped the elevator midway up between floors, grabbed me, shoved his cigarette tasting stinky tongue in my mouth and roughed me up a bit. I struggled but he was not a all guy, and nobody heard my yells. When he was done groping me he just brought the elevator up and didn't say a word to me. I was bruised and grossed out the rest of the day. Heck, for the rest of the year. I quit that volunteer job that week.

I wondered when the rape-liars were going to show up with their unverified stories. No you do not automatically win the argument because of something you claim happened once.

The good thing is that any DA will easily be able to determine that you should not be serving on a jury for a rape case.


You have a good point. Juries being loaded with people who are inclined to bring in a guilty verdict because of their irrational views on rape are a big problem. You are absolutely right that opinion-censorship is being successfully used to skew juries and get innocent men imprisoned.

We have to fight the cultural assumption that there is something about rape that makes it OK to bias massively in favour of the accuser. This assumption is doing nobody any good. Whenever an innocent man goes to prison for rape, you just have one more person who thinks, "why not become a rapist? what have I to lose if I will be punished and stigmatised anyway".
2013-01-19 02:15:04 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: Bored Horde: untaken_name: Bored Horde: untaken_name: A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.

Yeah how dare she want to travel the world without being subject to sexual harassment, what a cunning stunt.

One difference between men and women is that men are constantly subjected to things we don't like also, but we don't feel the need to biatch about them to the world and try to make everyone on the planet behave in a way that makes us individually comfortable. For example, I'm constantly subjected to ridiculous nonsense posts like yours, but you don't see me telling you to shut the fark up and never post again, do you?

Please tell us more about the long list of injustices that men must suffer that women don't also suffer. Oh god, being paid more. Damn. Oh bother, being taken more seriously. Jesus christ, restating someone else's idea and being given credit for it.

Being a man is AWESOME. Being a white man is REALLY AWESOME. If you don't acknowledge all the great things that come by default, you're an ASSHOLE. You know that guy who was born on third and talks like he hit a triple? Don't be that guy. Nobody likes that guy.

Being a white, privileged, middle/upper class woman is REALLY AWESOME too. Most people seem to forget that for some reason.


If you eat a six course meal at a five star restaurant with a shiat sandwich served halfway through, well, that part tends to stand out.

Even the most privileged women in America are subject to derision, abuse and rape by the men who surround them. It's one of the few universal facts of life on this world, that as a woman the men who surround you will treat your sexual aspects as public property.
2013-01-19 02:13:08 PM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: vudukungfu: Pretty woman walking down the street
Pretty woman the kind I like to meet pretty woman
I don't believe you you're not the truth
No one could look as good as you
Mercy
Pretty woman won't you pardon me
Pretty woman I couldn't help but see pretty woman
That you look lovely as can be
Are you lonely just like me

Pretty woman stop a while
Pretty woman talk a while
Pretty woman give your smile to me
Pretty woman yeah yeah yeah
Pretty woman look my way
Pretty woman say you'll stay with me
'Cause I need you I'll treat you right
Come with me baby be mine tonight

Pretty woman don't walk on by
Pretty woman don't make me cry pretty woman
Don't walk away hey ok
If that's the way it must be ok
I guess I'll go on home it's late
There'll be tomorrow night but wait
What do I see
Is she walking back to me
Yeah she's walking back to me
Oh oh pretty woman

Pincy thinks this song is exactly the same as rape.


Or a complete stranger shouting insults about women's "tacos".
2013-01-19 02:07:57 PM
1 votes:
It's not that feminism is threatening or a problem or even, it's it's stated cause, a bad idea. It's that it's just one more clapped out, whored out, sold out industry that moves a lot of money around and demands you sew a patch on your coat at recite the party line or be a pariah. You know, all the stuff the feminist movement said was reprehensible and oppressive. It's become a caricature and a divisive wedge. And we have enough of those on Wall St. and congress. It's not threatening. It's a wadded up political cartoon. It's a magazine, a snarky T-Shirt ad a fistful of crap daytime shows. And that's sad.
2013-01-19 02:06:08 PM
1 votes:

Zarquon's Flat Tire: tirob: I would advise any woman to stay away from dive bars and meat market clubs. But if that woman rejects my advice, she's still entitled to sit there and have a drink without being come on to in a gross manner.

Great in theory, but if I'm at the farmer's market and I see a table set up with vegetables, I'm going to assume they are for sale. It's a social contract at the club that everyone is looking to get laid, that's why they are there.

While for God's sake I don't condone any of the actions described in the article, I wouldn't go to a gay bar and be surprised if I got groped. I also wouldn't be offended if I went to a sports bar and some guy wanted to talk about baseball.


Nowhere in the article does the writer say the bar was a meat market or a dive bar,it was simply a drinking establishment.This is basically the argument that "women in bars deserve what they get". Some women go to bars to hang out with their friends and drink. I think it's incredible that this attitude still exists. Where else should women stay away from for fear of their reputation?
2013-01-19 02:05:30 PM
1 votes:

shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.


You, kind woman, are missing the point and that point is this:

SOME men are jerks, SOME MEN. NOT 'most men'. NOT a 'majority of men. NOT EVEN a substantial minority of men.

You and the writer need to get a grip. The small coterie of guys that are pigs in public is a fact of life and for YOU to get all butthurt over a tiny percentage of men with poor social skills shows that you've learned nothing about life in however many years you've been around.

As for dragging a hypothetical daughter into the discuss is a move worthy of every feminist and liberal hack around right up to Barack Obama.

'It's for the children'. What bull shiat.

If YOU aren't raising your daughter to be alert and aware and able to defend herself, if need be, makes YOU a shiatty mom.

Look at the world the way it is, NOT the way you wish/want it to be.

Farking allah, women (and men) like you are boring and self-centered.
2013-01-19 02:02:31 PM
1 votes:

bunner: GORDON: The key phrase in that article is "yoga pants." No sympathy from me, women beg for unseemly attention in those things.

Meh.

[1.cdn.tapcdn.com image 500x666]

I already know what women look like without the pants.

My big sexual fantasy now is to meet somebody I actually like hanging out with.

But that's the free pass. If you want to flaunt it, you get to do so and demand that people pretend they don't notice. And, that's sort of fine, really. But ladies? If you're gonna dress like that I completely agree that you are still perfectly allowed to reject any advances made. But, like, wait until you're asked. The guys braying bullsh*t wouldn't know what to do if you DID take them off. And if they start playing grabass, feel free to break their arms. But the sneer you've been practicing to proffer the guys that just quietly notice says more about you than those pants.


There's a difference between noticing and harassing. As a man, I will admit that I notice attractive women. Do I go up to them unsolicited and tell them I think they are attractive? No. Do I make catcalls? No. Do I try to get closer to them to get a good look? No. Do I do anything that would make them feel like I was in any way threatening to them? I hope not.

I guess I'm able to control myself better than a lot of people?
2013-01-19 02:02:10 PM
1 votes:
I can say I've never acted rudely in a sexual way to women/a woman in public but I've had it done to me, once while I was riding my bike out in CA and I can tell you first hand how it felt to have 4 young women in a pickup who slowed down as they drove by me hooting and 'Yeah"ing at me while I was out cycling and minding my own business, do you wanna know how it felt? It felt pretty f*kking awesome! I gotta tell ya!

But conversely, I didn't at any moment think there was any chance they were going to sexually assault me and I was just brought up to never make a woman feel uncomfortable.
2013-01-19 02:01:29 PM
1 votes:

murderguy: Wow. I don't think I've read the comments to a feminist article on Fark before. Most of you people have serious problems. I hope you are either too young to know better, or so old that you're on the verge of dying of old people diseases. Y'all have very bad attitudes about women, and you should feel bad. I hope my daughter, mother, and female friends never have to spend any time around you, and I hope your female acquaintances haven't suffered too much from your presence. Jesus.


Most of my female friends are now anti-feminists. Most of them have become utterly disgusted with how the mainstream feminist movment conducts itself in this country. Just look at Erin Pizzey; founder of the first domestic violence shelters for women in the 1970s, now an editior on a Men's Rights website.
2013-01-19 02:00:52 PM
1 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: Mambo Bananapatch: Lehk: WhippingBoy: 1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men

no, the suggestion is that women have to deal with that shiat every DAY and men might deal with it a couple times a year.

I would give five years off my life to have to deal with it one single time.

I was 15 years old and volunteering in the old Union Hospital in Lynn, MA. My job was to deliver flowers to patients. I had just boarded the old service elevator at the back of the hospital and was closing the accordion door when one of the kitchen staff, a guy in his mid 20's, blocked the door, boarded too, and took over the controls, which were the old fashioned brass lever to go between floor. He stopped the elevator midway up between floors, grabbed me, shoved his cigarette tasting stinky tongue in my mouth and roughed me up a bit. I struggled but he was not a all guy, and nobody heard my yells. When he was done groping me he just brought the elevator up and didn't say a word to me. I was bruised and grossed out the rest of the day. Heck, for the rest of the year. I quit that volunteer job that week.

I'll happily trade your five years for the memory of that guy's slimy tongue and unpleasant hands.


Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.
2013-01-19 01:59:44 PM
1 votes:

douchebag/hater: WhippingBoy: While I sympathize somewhat, I have a couple of problems with articles like this:

1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men
2. There's a underlying belief that "men" (in general) condone these types of actions
3. The "outrage" seems to be for the express purpose of generating blog hits

There's jerks in life; we encounter them every day. To attribute an given individual's jerky behaviour to any conveniently defined "group" is intellectually dishonest. If I were to put blinders on and conveniently ignore those instances where persons of my gender were jerks to me (and instead focused only on those instances where person of the opposite gender were jerks to me), I could become a social justice crusader.

Yup.
But women REFUSE to see it that, especially women like the author.

People are jerks, men and women, for her to imply that all men are rapists just waiting to pull every...single.
..woman on the face of the Earth into an alley and sodomize them is pure bull shiat.


Geez, I keep on reading this objection, that she is painting all men as rapists. Where in TFA does she do that?
2013-01-19 01:59:05 PM
1 votes:
Bored Horde:Groping a woman carries the implicit threat of rape in a way that a woman groping a man doesn't. However uncomfortable you felt being groped, remember that women are taught that it's their fault they got groped, that all men are groping raping monsters and it's the woman's fault if they let them get close.

For you, it was the simple act of violation of your body. For women, it's that AND a reminder that their body's positive assets belong to society.

Groping a man implies you know you can get away with sexual assault, an even accuse your victim of sexual assault and know that everyone will jump to your defense. For women, being groped reminds them that they get through life on their attractiveness and would starve to death if they were uglier.
2013-01-19 01:57:16 PM
1 votes:
Wow. I don't think I've read the comments to a feminist article on Fark before. Most of you people have serious problems. I hope you are either too young to know better, or so old that you're on the verge of dying of old people diseases. Y'all have very bad attitudes about women, and you should feel bad. I hope my daughter, mother, and female friends never have to spend any time around you, and I hope your female acquaintances haven't suffered too much from your presence. Jesus.
2013-01-19 01:56:06 PM
1 votes:

untaken_name: A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.


She didn't address it to the entire world. Why do you feel targeted?
2013-01-19 01:53:56 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: Pincy: lordjupiter: Why is it OK for you to extrapolate from specific experiences of individuals to general statements about groups, but it's not OK for men to do it?

Show me the statistics that show that men are anywhere close to women in being sexually harassed and then we'll talk.

I just realized that you haven't answered my question (or maybe I missed it). Is getting groped on a daily basis something most women typically have to deal with?


Answer: They deal with it much more than men and I have a feeling you know that.
2013-01-19 01:50:56 PM
1 votes:

Bored Horde: untaken_name: A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.

Yeah how dare she want to travel the world without being subject to sexual harassment, what a cunning stunt.


One difference between men and women is that men are constantly subjected to things we don't like also, but we don't feel the need to biatch about them to the world and try to make everyone on the planet behave in a way that makes us individually comfortable. For example, I'm constantly subjected to ridiculous nonsense posts like yours, but you don't see me telling you to shut the fark up and never post again, do you?
2013-01-19 01:49:14 PM
1 votes:
First, I had this discussion with my sister in law, who is 20 and pretty good looking.

We were walking down the street and guys were looking at her openly and she was talking about what perverts guys are.  Even though she has a different fark buddy every two weeks.

She was wearing tiny shorts, an almost non existent top, and high heels.  Hell, I was trying not to look.  I told her that if she didnt have the display case open, no one would be browsing.  Cause if you walk around half naked people are going to look.

And Yoga pants?  Come on ladies, first off they are to do yoga in,  and if you are going to walk around in yoga pants two sizes two small, so they hold in your bacon and shape it, and put the full camel toe on display.  Do not get angry if men and women see it and look at you.  i am tired of seeing cootch in yoga pants in the grocery store.  What happened to being demure?

I saw a girl with yoga pants and spanks on.

only about 1 in ten people actually wear yoga pants in their correct size.
2013-01-19 01:45:36 PM
1 votes:

Mambo Bananapatch: Lehk: WhippingBoy: 1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men

no, the suggestion is that women have to deal with that shiat every DAY and men might deal with it a couple times a year.

I would give five years off my life to have to deal with it one single time.


I was 15 years old and volunteering in the old Union Hospital in Lynn, MA. My job was to deliver flowers to patients. I had just boarded the old service elevator at the back of the hospital and was closing the accordion door when one of the kitchen staff, a guy in his mid 20's, blocked the door, boarded too, and took over the controls, which were the old fashioned brass lever to go between floor. He stopped the elevator midway up between floors, grabbed me, shoved his cigarette tasting stinky tongue in my mouth and roughed me up a bit. I struggled but he was not a all guy, and nobody heard my yells. When he was done groping me he just brought the elevator up and didn't say a word to me. I was bruised and grossed out the rest of the day. Heck, for the rest of the year. I quit that volunteer job that week.

I'll happily trade your five years for the memory of that guy's slimy tongue and unpleasant hands.
2013-01-19 01:45:13 PM
1 votes:

untaken_name: A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.


Yeah how dare she want to travel the world without being subject to sexual harassment, what a cunning stunt.
2013-01-19 01:44:46 PM
1 votes:

rushthatspeaks: Aww, booh hooh you're attractive and shallow and men notice. Wah. You take farking yoga? Whatever you snotty coont. I can't feel bad for you. Looks afford shallow coonts like you opportunities in life that most HARD WORKING people never get. So fark yourself you shallow biatch. Don't worry I won't EVER acknowledge your beauty.


Why do you assume she's attractive?
And what the fark is wrong with yoga?
2013-01-19 01:43:59 PM
1 votes:

TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.


So much THIS. I got through half of the first page, skipped ahead, read a few more comments, and the level of hysteria (from the men, obviously) was just astounding. F*ck this, I don't need so much willful ignorance cluttering up my life.
2013-01-19 01:43:14 PM
1 votes:

vudukungfu: Pretty woman walking down the street
Pretty woman the kind I like to meet pretty woman
I don't believe you you're not the truth
No one could look as good as you
Mercy
Pretty woman won't you pardon me
Pretty woman I couldn't help but see pretty woman
That you look lovely as can be
Are you lonely just like me

Pretty woman stop a while
Pretty woman talk a while
Pretty woman give your smile to me
Pretty woman yeah yeah yeah
Pretty woman look my way
Pretty woman say you'll stay with me
'Cause I need you I'll treat you right
Come with me baby be mine tonight

Pretty woman don't walk on by
Pretty woman don't make me cry pretty woman
Don't walk away hey ok
If that's the way it must be ok
I guess I'll go on home it's late
There'll be tomorrow night but wait
What do I see
Is she walking back to me
Yeah she's walking back to me
Oh oh pretty woman


Obviously, Roy Orbison was a rapist in waiting, leering at women from behind his pervert patriarchal sunglasses.
2013-01-19 01:41:02 PM
1 votes:
A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.
2013-01-19 01:40:47 PM
1 votes:
cryinoutloud:

/the ignore list is the greatest thing on Fark

Here's a handy translation for this type of comment we've seen from so many who love bragging about the size of their *ahem* ignore list (sounds kind of like a male thing, doesn't it... bragging about size...)

I ONLY WANT TO READ THINGS FROM PEOPLE WITH LIKEMINDED VIEWPOINTS!!! HOW DARE YOU DISAGREE WITH ME!

/Remember, kids, anyone who brags about their ignore list is generally someone whose opinion means nothing in the first place... less than the opinion of those people who are ignored by the high and mighty.
2013-01-19 01:33:28 PM
1 votes:
Are there mean people in the world?

Poor baby.


www.evolutionaryparenting.com
2013-01-19 01:32:53 PM
1 votes:

shastacola: Lenny_da_Hog: shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.

Yeah.

Women never judge each other on these things.

There's a difference between silently judging someone's looks and having complete strangers commenting on your "taco".but I bet you knew that.


"Silently." hahahahahahahahaha
2013-01-19 01:29:52 PM
1 votes:

Polyhazard: That's what's baffling to me. It almost seems like certain dudes simply can't stomach to idea of discussing a woman's experience without making it about making sure there's "equal time" for talking about men. What, exactly, in this article, is giving people the idea that this is about saying men don't matter?


So... equal treatment for women and men when you want it... but different treatment when you want that... you can't even decide by what rules you want to play the game!
2013-01-19 01:28:42 PM
1 votes:

tirob: I would advise any woman to stay away from dive bars and meat market clubs. But if that woman rejects my advice, she's still entitled to sit there and have a drink without being come on to in a gross manner.


Great in theory, but if I'm at the farmer's market and I see a table set up with vegetables, I'm going to assume they are for sale. It's a social contract at the club that everyone is looking to get laid, that's why they are there.

While for God's sake I don't condone any of the actions described in the article, I wouldn't go to a gay bar and be surprised if I got groped. I also wouldn't be offended if I went to a sports bar and some guy wanted to talk about baseball.
2013-01-19 01:20:18 PM
1 votes:
I love Ric Romero's post about how she uses all 3 names, has a roommate
, wonders how many tacos she can devour, and instead of writing an interesting article, is STILL drawing attention to herself writing about phantom men ogling her...
2013-01-19 01:17:08 PM
1 votes:

lordjupiter: Why is it OK for you to extrapolate from specific experiences of individuals to general statements about groups, but it's not OK for men to do it?


Show me the statistics that show that men are anywhere close to women in being sexually harassed and then we'll talk.
2013-01-19 01:15:39 PM
1 votes:

Bored Horde: WhippingBoy: Bored Horde: In the business world, if you're a man, as long as your hair is short and under control, everyone ignores it. It's a check box item. Women's hair gets graded. Men's clothing is the same - it's pass/fail, either the suit is clean, pressed, and fits or it's bad. Women's clothing gets graded for appearance, fashion, and riding the thin line between dowdy and slutty.

Are you sure about this? Do you have anything to back it up instead of your personal impressions or a ranting post from Jezebel?

Yes - this is basic perceptual research into photos of people, established in the 20th century and now a staple item of undergraduate introductory projects because the experiment is completely understood, the results fully analyzed, and it's still repeatable with the same findings.

Men's hair attracts comments like "professional" or "unprofessional", women's hair attracts comments like "fashionable" "stylish" "flirty" "professional" - it's graded on a spectrum. Again, if you've never understood this stuff and have any interest in learning what it's like to live as a woman in the Western world, then go read some books on the matter. You're not going to get a comprehensive education from a Fark thread, you're going to read a few nuggest of perspective among a flowing river of shiat from the internet misogynists.


And yet it's completely at odds with my entire professional career. Never once have I made, or have I heard from a colleague, a comment about a women's hair (save for asking the girl with 5 ft. long hair how long her hair was as a matter of curiosity, I would also have asked this if it had been a man).

The only times I have heard about clothing was when it was potentially inappropriate (e.g. club attire to a business meeting), it has always been a checkbox issue.

That is not to say I've never heard anyone comment on looks/attractiveness, but I suspect that happens in both directions (albeit probably disproportionately).

Perhaps asking people to specifically comment on an area yields different results than would occur in the real world unless otherwise prompted? I might give similar answers if asked, but in the real world I just notice if you have reasonable hygiene/tidiness.

/anecdotal evidence is irrefutable!
2013-01-19 01:15:00 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: No, I'm not constantly being groped. Are you implying that constant groping is something most women have to deal with?
One of my "groping" incidents was by a group of three men. While I can't honestly claim that I thought I was about to get raped, the possibility did indeed cross my mind.

Do you see my point? I'm labeled as a misogynstic troglodyte because my I can't empathize on an emotional level in regards to these feelings because I've never experienced them. If I say "getting groped is no big deal", it's because I honestly feel that getting groped is no big deal (e.g. I'm not condoning the behaviour or writing it off as "boys will be boys", it's just that in my world, it truly is no big deal).


Yes, I understand the point you are trying to make and I'm going to say that just because it's not a big deal to you doesn't mean it's not a big deal to others. You just admitted that you never felt the threat of rape. I'm guessing 99.9% of the men you asked would say they've never felt the threat of rape either. I'm also guessing that percentage would be way lower for women. So when you say "it's not big deal to me", that's coming from the male perspective, which is going to be different than the female perspective.

Again, I'm not trying to be rude here or write-off your experience. I'm just not sure what your point is in saying that you don't consider groping and such to be a big deal?
2013-01-19 01:13:25 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: THE GREAT NAME: toomuchmarisa: [img685.imageshack.us image 300x391]

Jesus farking christ I am SO TIRED of women complaining all the time about everything. If you're an attractive woman you are like a celebrity, and celebrities have to deal with getting harassed in public. Period. On the other hand, you are also A FARKING CELEBRITY, which has a plethora of perks.

This is how life goes, there are upsides and downsides to everything. Incessantly complaining about the negative aspects, especially while ignoring the positives, just makes you look like a whiny, spoiled, and naive 12 year old. Grow the fark up.

/life is hard
//welcome to the real world
///rich white people problems ftl

Feminists like Pincy ensure women have no challenges in life, and hence no reason to grow up. At least until it is too late. Feminism's gift to women is a poisoned chalice.

I take it you are implying that being called a feminist is a bad thing?

And yes, in a perfect world, I don't think women should have to have the "challenge" of trying not to be raped. If that makes me a bad person then so be it.


I do not support women being raped. Rape is unacceptable. But this comment was in the context of things that women find annoying or unfair or scary. And women should have to deal with such things just lime men have to. It is character-building. How can a woman bring up children if they have not grown up themselves - it only passes problems on.
2013-01-19 01:08:32 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: If I say "getting groped is no big deal", it's because I honestly feel that getting groped is no big deal (e.g. I'm not condoning the behaviour or writing it off as "boys will be boys", it's just that in my world, it truly is no big deal).


When you say that, are you saying "It's no big deal when I get groped," or are you saying "groping shouldn't be a big deal for anyone?" And if it's the latter, what follows, exactly? That people shouldn't feel shy about groping others? Or that people shouldn't complain that they are groped?

If this woman were to come around to your way of thinking, how would her behavior change? Would she just chuckle the next time she gets grabbed on the train? And if I see a butt that needs grabbing on the next elevator, should I or should I not consider that person's personal bodily autonomy before I go for it?
2013-01-19 01:01:06 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: I think the bigger point here is that it's not up to women to teach men how to behave,


I wish you would tell that to some of the women on here. Amirite?
2013-01-19 12:53:40 PM
1 votes:
So many crosses, and I'm fresh out of nails.
2013-01-19 12:50:16 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: THE GREAT NAME: A successful false rape accusation is just as bad as a rape and so the fear is just as legitimate.

Hahahaha no. Try again, with a little less butthurt this time.


Actually, it sort of is. If a woman accuses you of rape and you didn't commit any rape, your life - even if exonerated - in that community is OVER. Punkt. Fullstop. Period. Of course, if it's not false and you did rape the woman, I hope they find you in a ditch, but, um, false rape accusations DO exist and they are levied by the sort of women who see sex as a weapon, and would likely be the sort of vermin the woman in TFA complained about if they WERE men.
2013-01-19 12:50:02 PM
1 votes:

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: There must be some real doozies in this thread- my ignore filter has blocked out almost half the comments. Am I missing anything?


Assuming I'm not already on your ignore list, if this thread is that objectionable that you've got half the comments blocked out, why wouldn't you just leave instead of wasting your time posting?
2013-01-19 12:48:56 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: Polyhazard: And what, exactly, was your counterpoint? Because I missed it. All I see you saying is "guys have been groped." How is that a counterpoint?

Perspective. As a man, getting groped is no big deal to me. So if I hear an anecdote about a woman getting groped, my own experiences and feelings say "no big deal" and, on an emotional level, I don't see what all the fuss is about. I don't think this makes me a bad person (at least I hope it doesn't).

There seems to be a lot of anger because "I just don't get it". Well... you're right; I don't get it. I've never been a woman, and while I can cognitively understand the fear and frustration that being groped might cause, it just doesn't hit me on an emotional level, because these are emotions that I've never had to deal with.

On the other hand, people have no problem telling me how wonderful and problem free my life must be because I'm a man, even though they themselves have absolutely no clue what being a man is like. To top it off, I'm supposed to feel ashamed if I even mention that I have problems and issues of my own to deal with.

I apologize if my comments have offended anyone; my intent was sincere (but perhaps misguided); I'm just trying to keep things honest...


OK, it sounds like you are being honest here, so don't take these questions the wrong way because I'm not trying to accuse you of anything.

Are you constantly being groped by other men or is this just a once in a blue moon thing?

Have you ever thought to yourself "that man is going to rape me?"
2013-01-19 12:48:55 PM
1 votes:

toomuchmarisa: [img685.imageshack.us image 300x391]

Jesus farking christ I am SO TIRED of women complaining all the time about everything. If you're an attractive woman you are like a celebrity, and celebrities have to deal with getting harassed in public. Period. On the other hand, you are also A FARKING CELEBRITY, which has a plethora of perks.

This is how life goes, there are upsides and downsides to everything. Incessantly complaining about the negative aspects, especially while ignoring the positives, just makes you look like a whiny, spoiled, and naive 12 year old. Grow the fark up.

/life is hard
//welcome to the real world
///rich white people problems ftl


Feminists like Pincy ensure women have no challenges in life, and hence no reason to grow up. At least until it is too late. Feminism's gift to women is a poisoned chalice.
2013-01-19 12:43:10 PM
1 votes:

lordjupiter: My wife is a lot like you, and she's highly trained in self-defense. But I know that's not a guarantee, or a license to go around snapping "you got a problem?!" at strangers whose gazes linger a bit longer than is comfortable. She doesn't do that as much as she did in her 20s, which is when women really seem to get fed up with it and start looking to complain about it or challenge it...


Thanks for the advice, I guess... but could you please give it without being disingenuous and minimizing the problem women are complaining about here? Don't you think that's a bit insulting?
2013-01-19 12:41:31 PM
1 votes:

Pincy: THE GREAT NAME: Pincy: THE GREAT NAME: Pincy: Comedian Ever Mainard sums up this mindset in her excellent bit about the fact that women are constantly aware that "their rape" could happen at any time. She says, "The problem is that every woman has that one moment when you think, here's my rape!

Just asked my wife about this. At just over 40 she's had two of these moments that she can recall. That sucks.

So now a woman doesn't even have to be raped to be a victim of rape? Get real. Things happen that scare us sometimes.

Did I say she was a victim of rape? NO. I said she thought she was going to be raped. One if definitely worse than the other but it still sucks that women have to constantly be on their guard.

As a man, I can honestly say that I have never once thought to myself "I think I'm going to be raped". My guess is the percentage of men who have never had this feeling is much much higher than the percentage of women. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

Men have to be constantly on guard about the thread of a false rape accusation. A successful false rape accusation is just as bad as a rape and so the fear is just as legitimate.

Ya, I know when I'm walking down the street at night I'm constantly on my guard for roving packs of women accusing me of raping them.


False rape claims are real. 83% of rape claims are made up. Get your head out of the sand.
2013-01-19 12:39:30 PM
1 votes:
There must be some real doozies in this thread- my ignore filter has blocked out almost half the comments. Am I missing anything?
2013-01-19 12:39:14 PM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.

If somebody raped you, I would not shed a tear.


And yet if somebody were to accuse you of rape, you would want the whole world to cry with you.
2013-01-19 12:38:50 PM
1 votes:

Polyhazard: WhippingBoy: TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.

That's right. Men have no issues or problems of their own, and should feel ashamed for suggesting that they do. The life of every man is filled with constant wine (I mean "whine" - amirite??) and roses.

Don't be (pretend to) be stupid. No one is saying guys don't have problems. But you have to wonder why a thread about a woman trying to get men to see things from her point of view devolves into an instant wail-fest about the shiat men have to deal with, as if placing it on a scale will somehow erase the point this woman was making about her own experience.


There's a dual-reason for the wailing.

To some extent, there really are posts where it feels like all men are being accused of, if not *performing* this behavior, at least not always being around to condemn it (because no one else around stepped in). Some feel like they're being expected to put on sackcloth's or hair shirts and wail about how evil they have been. Whether this perception is accurate or not can vary, but with some comments in the vein of "And the view was not pretty. Now I fully support my wife's insistence on single sex education. Boys are animals and belong in cages.", one can imagine how other men might get defensive.

And some feel frustrated that they feel like their concerns are, well, being called 'not important'. Not 'less important', or 'less numerous', but, as in, they shouldn't care at all. Like how females *don't* really get prosecuted for rape, or statutory rape... even in a situation where there's likely to be power abuse (teacher-on-student). That is, apparently, far less horrifying than male-on-female student... I guess because of our culture. But to some, it really feels like their concerns are, quite frankly, being *dismissed* entirely. That's frustrating as fark.

So some of it may just be sheer communication breakdown. When someone says "No, I'm not condemning all men!", but then says "Men can get away with X, men do X, etc etc.", it sends mixed messages, and makes the former statement feel... hollow? Even if the speaker doesn't MEAN 'all men', that's how it sometimes gets internalized by men listening/reading to it. And that can bring out the defensiveness in people, even, or perhaps ESPECIALLY, if they have not engaged in behavior X.

Some of the people complaining? Yeah, they probably are misogynists. But to assume all are, or to coyly imply that all are secretly just pissed they can't be misogynists, or some such, is, well, wrong, I would think. Maybe they're just being oversensitive, maybe there's a communication breakdown, but to sort of imply "Well you're a SEXIST if you bring these things up!" is just gonna fark stuff up further.

And if you wish to ask "Well where did I imply it?", this sentence

"But you have to wonder why a thread about a woman trying to get men to see things from her point of view devolves into an instant wail-fest about the shiat men have to deal with, as if placing it on a scale will somehow erase the point this woman was making about her own experience"

sort of implies that *ALL* those going bringing up issues are, in fact, secretly sexist or horrible people or some such. (At least, that's how it appears on this end of the screen.)
"
2013-01-19 12:38:49 PM
1 votes:

Tatterdemalian: Polyhazard: WhippingBoy: TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.

That's right. Men have no issues or problems of their own, and should feel ashamed for suggesting that they do. The life of every man is filled with constant wine (I mean "whine" - amirite??) and roses.

Don't be (pretend to) be stupid. No one is saying guys don't have problems. But you have to wonder why a thread about a woman trying to get men to see things from her point of view devolves into an instant wail-fest about the shiat men have to deal with, as if placing it on a scale will somehow erase the point this woman was making about her own experience.

Well, it's not like rationally pointing out that filtering out "losers" who fail their tests, which can only be passed by having psychic and/or precognitive superpowers, has convinced anyone that they're really selecting for men who will lie to them, and probably go on to lie to them about remaining faithful while they bang all the other women running up to get a piece of the man that some other woman thought was relationship material.

/drama and misogyny is what people want, not reason
//anonymous, and FARK, delivers


assets.diylol.com
2013-01-19 12:38:34 PM
1 votes:

Lernaeus: Settle in, men; misandry is here to stay for a while.

For at least the next several generations there will be some women who want to make up for thousands of years of real (but mostly imagined) male oppression. Most will just be pissed off temporarily, and probably justifiably so, but a few will be sincere, maniacal (sorry, 'womaniacal') outrage queens with political influence.


Rubbish. Those women aren't punishing men for what men did in the past. They're punishing men because they are ugly, right now.
2013-01-19 12:38:27 PM
1 votes:

lordjupiter: This is kind of half-baked in that it seems to be trying to divide "sexual harassment" into two terms that can be reduced to something other than what the actual term means. If men are just after sex via power and not the other way around, then they are NOT treating women in the workplace the same as men, as the author contends.

Maybe cracking jokes in the presence of women and treating them like "one of the guys" is indeed an attempt at "equality", but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that "men sexually harass women because they are not sexist". That's absurd.


The sex by means of power has nothing to do with similar treatment in the work environment. Separate cases, just reread it. Sex by means of power probably hasn't got anything to do with workplace either, that is just coincidental because that is where the power is.

But the part where we are talking about a hostile work environment is probably spot on. It just goes further than just jokes. It goes on to mocking ideas, crude remarks, commenting on physical attributes etc. Just try it for yourself, after you see a male colleague placating the boss you tell him he still has a white stain near his mouth. See what happens. Now try it with a female colleague. Or when you see a male colleague walking about all high and mighty you tell him that he should hit the gym if he is trying to be impress anyone. no try that with a woman.

I have done that a lot with male colleagues. We get a laugh and we know that turn about is fair play. I have never done that with female colleagues. I have seen people getting written up for things that would get waved away if it was between two men instead of a man and a woman.
2013-01-19 12:33:55 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: Polyhazard: WhippingBoy: TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.

That's right. Men have no issues or problems of their own, and should feel ashamed for suggesting that they do. The life of every man is filled with constant wine (I mean "whine" - amirite??) and roses.

Don't be (pretend to) be stupid. No one is saying guys don't have problems. But you have to wonder why a thread about a woman trying to get men to see things from her point of view devolves into an instant wail-fest about the shiat men have to deal with, as if placing it on a scale will somehow erase the point this woman was making about her own experience.

Speaking strictly for myself, I was sincerely trying to offer a counterpoint by trying to get people to see things from my (a man's) point of view.


And what, exactly, was your counterpoint? Because I missed it. All I see you saying is "guys have been groped." How is that a counterpoint?
2013-01-19 12:30:40 PM
1 votes:

angela_mna: I have been on Fark for almost 6 years now, and although I don't comment on things, I'm on here daily, reading articles and comments.

After reading the comments in this article, I'm done with this site.

I can't believe I was a (very small) part of this community.

I am disgusted, to the point of being physically sickened, by the majority of comments on this article.

For those of you who still have the stomach to stay and stand up for what's right against these 'people', thank you, but I just can't anymore.


Forgive my obvious ignorance, but what exactly was so incredibly objectionable? I can understand feeling frustrated, but I don't see what makes this thread so different from any other Fark threads on similar subjects.
2013-01-19 12:27:30 PM
1 votes:

Polyhazard: WhippingBoy: TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.

That's right. Men have no issues or problems of their own, and should feel ashamed for suggesting that they do. The life of every man is filled with constant wine (I mean "whine" - amirite??) and roses.

Don't be (pretend to) be stupid. No one is saying guys don't have problems. But you have to wonder why a thread about a woman trying to get men to see things from her point of view devolves into an instant wail-fest about the shiat men have to deal with, as if placing it on a scale will somehow erase the point this woman was making about her own experience.


Speaking strictly for myself, I was sincerely trying to offer a counterpoint by trying to get people to see things from my (a man's) point of view.
2013-01-19 12:27:10 PM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.

If somebody raped you, I would not shed a tear.


You don't say? That sentiment goes against everything else you've posted in this thread. I don't know how I read you so wrong.
2013-01-19 12:26:25 PM
1 votes:

daveUSMC: I'm 5'5" and would do anything for an extra inch or two.


The day that science comes up with a pill or surgery (that doesn't leave you crippled for months) to increase a man's height is the day that a whoooole bunch of guys stop talking shiat about cosmetic procedures. It'd be the male boob job, nearly ubiquitous and frequently taken to the extreme, with easily visible results that get the patient tons of attention and self esteem.
2013-01-19 12:25:11 PM
1 votes:

AJisaff: What kind of upbringing do you have to have to do this? What the fark can we do to fix a society that has produced children like this???


Things with no direction only stop when they hit a wall. But, "FOR GOD'S SAKE, NEVER DISCIPLINE OUR CHILDREN OR I WILL HAVE THE LAW ON YOUR ASS AND TAKE YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE!" Anybody see a cyclical pattern emerging here. Life has consequences for actions. Sh*t, that not even society, that's physics, ffs. But let's keep omitting that, lest our snowflakes give pause and consider that the sun just might not be shining out of the crack of their ass. Self esteem, you know. Vanity and hubris still stink of something left out of the fridge for too long. And instead of trying to rise above it, we let disingenuous old men turn them into industries. Stop buying every flavor of smoke that's blown up your ass about "what really matters" and for god's sake, don't sell the same smoke to your kids.
2013-01-19 12:23:14 PM
1 votes:

angela_mna: I have been on Fark for almost 6 years now, and although I don't comment on things, I'm on here daily, reading articles and comments.

After reading the comments in this article, I'm done with this site.

I can't believe I was a (very small) part of this community.

I am disgusted, to the point of being physically sickened, by the majority of comments on this article.

For those of you who still have the stomach to stay and stand up for what's right against these 'people', thank you, but I just can't anymore.


And you're going to make this same post in the next dozen threads on this topic, aren't you?
2013-01-19 12:18:54 PM
1 votes:

AJisaff: yup. statistically, 86% of rape victims are female, and 99% of rapists are male.


Perhaps because women don't get charged with rape in equal situations. Guy's drunk and horny woman starts tugging at his pants? - oh, that's acceptable, not a crime.

Did you see the article yesterday about the teacher attempting rape on an unwilling boy? She got zero (0) days prison, and no sex offender registry. I humbly suggest that sentencing disparity between genders accounts for a large part of that statistic you just mentioned.
2013-01-19 12:18:49 PM
1 votes:

quickdraw: cabbyman: [thefamily.com image 360x190]

or this

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x400]


I'm 5'5" and would do anything for an extra inch or two.

/Of height, that is.
//Actually, now that I think of it...


No, really though, I think we all (women and men) bear some of the responsibility for the way that parts of society has devolved into basically a living internet comments thread. While no one can be blamed for being harassed or assaulted, it pays to know your surroundings and plan appropriately. It's a shiatty culture we have become, but that's the way the world is. We can lament it, howl at the wind, or blog about it; or we can focus on raising our kids in a way that doesn't perpetuate it. Come to think of it, why can't we do a little of both? I know why, because everything will eventually be derailed by someone saying something horrible, and all the responses thereafter.

I'm focusing on my family, and I'm not going to go out of my way to try to push for some categorical societal shift. I'll do my part by not being a douchebaggerous ogre, you can do me the favor of not throwing those who are in my face and telling me to do something about it.
2013-01-19 12:16:05 PM
1 votes:

Target Builder: ITT: Guys who would be cool with watching their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc be harassed by a group of drunk men and would tell their sisters, daughters, wives, mothers, etc that if they don't want to be treated that way they should stop dressing like sluts and expecting to get free stuff because of how they look.


I've actually tried this tactic before (though only in broad daylight.) Some dude starts harassing you on street, turn around, look them dead in the eye and say "what would you do if someone was doing this to your mother right now?"

It really shocks them, mostly because they do it in the first place because they expect no response. And I did get a couple of "shut up biatch" comments, but more than one apology. I kinda hope it sticks with some of these guys for next time.
2013-01-19 12:12:10 PM
1 votes:

One Bad Apple: Tatterdemalian: A female acquaintance of mine wanted me to take her out to a local gay bar. When I asked why, she said, "So you can see what it's like being flirted with by people you don't want to have sex with."

I replied, "How about I *not* go to the gay bar, so I don't give any of the guys the impression that I'm looking for a one night stand."

/she never spoke to me again
//and died at the hands of her abusive boyfriend a year ago

Well you sure showed her didn't you Te'o


We all pretend to be sad when a biatch like that dies. But the worst anyone really feels is inconvenienced. Woman who think they're getting away with it should take note,
2013-01-19 12:10:32 PM
1 votes:
Wow. Just read the first page of comments. It forces you to remember how many of those were written from Mom's basement.
2013-01-19 12:09:53 PM
1 votes:

Arthur Jumbles: However, if it was women I'd be in heaven and that's the disconnect that women don't get.


So you aren't a woman yet you think you can speak for women?
2013-01-19 12:08:10 PM
1 votes:
Didn't happen. None of it.
2013-01-19 12:06:17 PM
1 votes:

Zarquon's Flat Tire: Being average height and having your own penis doesn't make you a master of hand to hand combat.


Average man's height in the US is 5'10".

Someone who is 6 feet tall is almost a standard deviation to the right, i.e. tall. The story above by a farker who was told he must be "6 foot tall to ride the ride" kind of illustrates the issue that "short" men have. That woman is immediately ruling out 60-70% of men. Idiotic, but the attitude remains.

/5'11" in the morning before the weight of the world drags me down
2013-01-19 12:06:08 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: You're cherry picking comments in order to rationalize your feelings of "outrage".
Why else would you give credence to the opinion of a single anonymous poster on the internet?


She doesn't have to cherry pick comments. There are a shiatload of comments in this thread to find the "misogynistic troglodytes" as you tried to ironically call them. Sad thing is, it's not ironic. And you're one of the worst offenders by far. Glad you gave yourself your own farkie for me.
2013-01-19 12:03:27 PM
1 votes:

Arthur Jumbles: Bored Horde: Women have to be average to slightly-above-average looking, thin but not too thin, fashionable without being slutty or dowdy, done up without going too far - women live on a razor's edge that doesn't exist for men. Everything a woman does is open for judgement, in a way that isn't true for men. Go farking talk to some women. Ask them how stressful buying a skirt is - is it fashionable or slutty to have a hemline 2 inches above their knees? What if they're self-conscious about their knees and want to wear a below-the-knees skirt - will people subconsciously regard them as too conservative and pass them over for big projects or management positions?

Funny thing is that most of the judgement is coming from women against other women.


Agree. Women are judged more, but they're also more judgemental. Most of the judging is girl-on-girl. It's only thanks to socialists and their evil plan to split society into "perpetrator" and "survivor" groups that people attribute any of this to men.

Women who work in genuinely male-dominated places get to wear what they want. When evil leftists like quickdraw come along and stuff the place with lazy maternity-seeking women with rubber-stamped qualifications is when things get biatchy.
2013-01-19 12:03:25 PM
1 votes:

clowncar on fire: ThrobblefootSpectre: Pincy: Well, you were working in a sports bar that I'm guessing probably catered to men, so I'm not exactly surprised you'd get hit on a lot. Now if you are getting the same thing from complete strangers while walking down the street at night that might be a little different.

And is it okay for a guy on the street to get angry (or even start shoving) over a suggestive comment from another guy?

Only if you were trying to find the proper equivalency which- in this case-- would be a female being subject to unwanted comments out on the street by other females.

I don't think guys tend to get as bunched up about unsolicited comments from females as females seem to.


Ya, probably not, since very rarely is a woman going to rape a guy. It's easy for guys to laugh it off or take it as a compliment when the thought of being raped never crosses their mind.
2013-01-19 12:01:27 PM
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: KiwDaWabbit: A gay guy gave me a compliment once. I was just flattered that someone found me attractive in any way.

Yep, exactly. BINGO!

I was a barback in a sports bar for some 10 years until recently. Over the years I got hit on by a lot of guys. Ranging from flattering comments to my body (yes it's flattering, even from another guy), to rather rude requests to let them blow me. I never once shoved anyone, I never got angry, I never blogged about what a victim I was. My reaction ranged from being flattered, to a simple "No thanks" for the more forward propositions.


Last couple of Halloween my female friends all want to go to these bars in Boytown in Chicago. Polite to crude come ons all night.... never felt offended. Now..... this is just one night a year.... I can see how this type of behavior would be annoying if it was 365 days a year of gay guys grabbing my ass. However, if it was women I'd be in heaven and that's the disconnect that women don't get.
2013-01-19 12:00:57 PM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: Pincy: Comedian Ever Mainard sums up this mindset in her excellent bit about the fact that women are constantly aware that "their rape" could happen at any time. She says, "The problem is that every woman has that one moment when you think, here's my rape!

Just asked my wife about this. At just over 40 she's had two of these moments that she can recall. That sucks.

So now a woman doesn't even have to be raped to be a victim of rape? Get real. Things happen that scare us sometimes.


Did I say she was a victim of rape? NO. I said she thought she was going to be raped. One if definitely worse than the other but it still sucks that women have to constantly be on their guard.

As a man, I can honestly say that I have never once thought to myself "I think I'm going to be raped". My guess is the percentage of men who have never had this feeling is much much higher than the percentage of women. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous.
2013-01-19 11:58:20 AM
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: Pincy: Well, you were working in a sports bar that I'm guessing probably catered to men, so I'm not exactly surprised you'd get hit on a lot. Now if you are getting the same thing from complete strangers while walking down the street at night that might be a little different.

And is it okay for a guy on the street to get angry (or even start shoving) over a suggestive comment from another guy?


I don't think it's okay, or advisable, for anyone to do that. But it does not mean the original behavior is okay. Do you agree?
2013-01-19 11:57:40 AM
1 votes:

Bored Horde: Frederick: So being really attractive is a two sided coin, eh?  Who woulda thought.

Of course on the other side of the coin is; greater salaries,  undeserved promotions, more lenient sentences, ugh, lets stop the list there.....

I wonder why your article didnt mention how your husband deals with your attractiveness?

Good looking men get more money and raise through the ranks faster. Good looking women get sidelined into pretty-face positions.

Women have to be average to slightly-above-average looking, thin but not too thin, fashionable without being slutty or dowdy, done up without going too far - women live on a razor's edge that doesn't exist for men. Everything a woman does is open for judgement, in a way that isn't true for men. Go farking talk to some women. Ask them how stressful buying a skirt is - is it fashionable or slutty to have a hemline 2 inches above their knees? What if they're self-conscious about their knees and want to wear a below-the-knees skirt - will people subconsciously regard them as too conservative and pass them over for big projects or management positions?

Talk to women. Check your assumptions, and listen with an open mind. Remember that all the problems they list - obsessing over being taken seriously, obsessing over avoiding or feeling guilty about inviting unwanted attention, obsessing over their appearance - these are all on top of the normal life stresses. Being a woman doesn't let you off the hook from your health, paying the bills, keeping your car in good working order, and all the other annoyances of life.

If you're not interested in doing this then just recognize that you don't have the perspective and knowledge to empathize with being a woman. You should just consider that many attractive women who age feel relief (and guilt over that relief) when they become "invisible" and are no longer subject to all that extra special attention. Some also feel crushed because most of their male friends were just in it to bump bits for a few minutes, and years of companionship and shared experience were apparently for naught.


No guy notices those small details and makes grand assumptions about the person wearing it. That's firmly and absolutely an issue created and perpetuated by other women.
2013-01-19 11:55:58 AM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: So you seek out opportunities to put people on ignore? Why would you go looking for comments that you would then prevent yourself from being able to read?


Confirmation bias. A lot of people flock to these types of threads in order to reinforce their world view.

Men are misogynistic troglodytes. See? This Fark thread proves it.
2013-01-19 11:55:53 AM
1 votes:

Pincy: Comedian Ever Mainard sums up this mindset in her excellent bit about the fact that women are constantly aware that "their rape" could happen at any time. She says, "The problem is that every woman has that one moment when you think, here's my rape!

Just asked my wife about this. At just over 40 she's had two of these moments that she can recall. That sucks.


So now a woman doesn't even have to be raped to be a victim of rape? Get real. Things happen that scare us sometimes.
2013-01-19 11:52:56 AM
1 votes:

bunner: AJisaff: this is in Canada. and the Canadian "rape culture" is a tiny fraction of what it is in the States.

There is no "rape culture". There's criminal culture. And as soon as we get back to stringing up that faction of it and tossing them in lime pits and quit acting like dime store criminals, pirate bankers and thugs are some kind of rock stars, we'll all be safer.


ok, i totally agree with you... and favorited you too...

good point.
2013-01-19 11:52:43 AM
1 votes:
basically everyone sympathizes with the scared young female, but your self defense *gasp* is your farking responsibility, you are a creature, an animal, you are not special, you cannot magically alter and abate the laws of reality and nature because of your indoctrinated upbringing.

whining on the internet about how this shiat sucks is like a squirrel whining about the lack of nuts in farking winter.

grow up, grow a pair, be happy you live in this part of HIStory, and realize that shiat is going to get way farking worse in this country, sorry, there's not going to be any omniscient force looking out for you, deal with it.

when it all comes down you will be groveling at the feet of the local "patriarchy" begging to be let into a functional society.

this is a much bigger and more real issue than the prevalence of "rape culture"..
2013-01-19 11:46:28 AM
1 votes:

Dansker: ExperianScaresCthulhu:
I see what you're saying, and agree with it. Again, leads back to the ho doth protest too much. She's not really, she's bragging. See also: hos who make a point of pointing out their BMI when it's on the low end.

I'm guessing you don't have any female friends.


Why? Women are just as likely to dislike asshat women as men are to dislike asshat men. The only difference is that asshat women use cultural weapons like feminism, rape-claims etc to intimidate everyone including other women. This makes it harder for women as a whole to self-police. But if we, as men, simply ignore the asshat women, we can get along with the rest of them just fine.
2013-01-19 11:43:34 AM
1 votes:

Bored Horde: Women have to be average to slightly-above-average looking, thin but not too thin, fashionable without being slutty or dowdy, done up without going too far - women live on a razor's edge that doesn't exist for men. Everything a woman does is open for judgement, in a way that isn't true for men. Go farking talk to some women. Ask them how stressful buying a skirt is - is it fashionable or slutty to have a hemline 2 inches above their knees? What if they're self-conscious about their knees and want to wear a below-the-knees skirt - will people subconsciously regard them as too conservative and pass them over for big projects or management positions?


Funny thing is that most of the judgement is coming from women against other women.
2013-01-19 11:40:27 AM
1 votes:

RassilonsExWife: Whodat: The author sounds like a narcissist.

And you sound like a clueless ass.

I love threads like this. They're such good asshole bait. As the troglodytes come slithering out, I can give the ignore button a good workout, and for the next few months the threads I follow become relatively idiot-free.

And I get a few folks worth adding to the favorites list as a bonus. Win/Win!


Rather than bragging about how outraged you are, how about contributing something meaningful to the discussion?
2013-01-19 11:38:15 AM
1 votes:

megarian: This is stupid. Being a girl is fantastic.


You don't seem the least bit real.
2013-01-19 11:37:40 AM
1 votes:
Comedian Ever Mainard sums up this mindset in her excellent bit about the fact that women are constantly aware that "their rape" could happen at any time. She says, "The problem is that every woman has that one moment when you think, here's my rape!

Just asked my wife about this. At just over 40 she's had two of these moments that she can recall. That sucks.
2013-01-19 11:37:24 AM
1 votes:

DerAppie: When men do it to other men they get to hear that they should just suck it up


Yep.

A woman can get angry at a sexually suggestive comment from a man, and she is empowered and liberated. But if a man gets angry at a sexually suggestive comment from another man, he is a "homophobic" jerk. The author even talks about shoving a guy for making a comment. Is it okay for a guy to shove a guy just for making sexually suggestive comments? No. The outrage would be epic.

Please note - I think neither party should get angry in this situation. I am NOT being anti gay, I am being anti-double standard.

My own preference would be that everyone relax and stop being so uptight. But if I say that to a woman in this situation, I am a "patriarchal misogynistic chauvinist". Yet, amazingly, if I reacted like this woman does in this same situation (which I don't), I am a "homophobic intolerant bigot".
2013-01-19 11:35:09 AM
1 votes:
quickdraw
ok - so one chick was rude, the woman in your office should be brought up on harassment charges and yes there are bullies in the world. Life isnt fair. But what does any of that have to do with the writer's concerns? She isnt writing about the difficulties of being a short guy. You can do that on your blog if you want.


One rule of essay writing I learned in school: if you've several arguments for your position, put the strongest one or the one that you want to stick with people at the end.
Look at the last paragraph of that article, the one mentioning rape culture and Ask your female friends, if you have any, if they've ever..
followed by a list of things that you don't even have to ask female friends about, because even as a guy built like an NFL linesman you've done those things or at least had them on your mind.
That's the thing that will stick the most with people, be the aftertaste, when they come back here after reading the article.

It's pretty obvious to me where those comments coming from if one focuses on the last paragraph - the listed things might be worse for but they're not unique to being a woman.
No wonder that ending an article about "seeing things from the other side" with something like that is rubbing some people the other way.
2013-01-19 11:31:35 AM
1 votes:

Smock Pot: I don't know why women keep trying to tell men what it's like, because men are never going to get it. Ever. No matter what a woman says about this, no matter how many analogies she makes, no matter how she says it, men will respond with... pretty much everything in this thread. They will continue to act like untrained dogs around women they want to fark and shiat all over women they deem too old or too ugly to fark.


Generalization much? You're doing the same thing the article writer does. Do you see her mention the nice respectful guys she knows? No, but I can assure you, they DO EXIST. For every jackass out there that acts like that, there are many more respectfully going about their lives.
2013-01-19 11:29:13 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."

Because it is dangerous to do so.

Uh-huh. Every guy in the world is just waiting to beat the shiat out of women. I guess women are just that weak. No wonder they seek out violent, beefy men.

Seriously? Cant you do better than that? Its like watching somebody box an imaginary opponent.

Ok fine Ill indulge you. This is how it works. Every person we come across has the potential to be friend or foe. When out in a setting where we could be physically vulnerable (no matter who you are) we have to size up people we meet. If a drunk obnoxious idiot is saying rude things to you its generally not wise to call them on it or insult them.

If the person may not be drunk but is larger than you, or is driving a vehicle, or holding something that looks like they might use it as a weapon then you have to think very carefully before you respond to them.

If they are a boss or coworker you have to consider whether it is worth losing your job over.

What is it about the concept of "power deferential" that you dont get?


Then any reaction she has, including the one she took -- walking down the street -- is just as much of a threat. It's still a rebuke.

I'm 6' tall and 130 pounds. I have no chest. I *will* get my ass kicked in a fight. Yet I've never gotten into one in all of my years, and have still managed to stand up for myself when people say rude things to me. Sometimes it's clear that the goal is violence, so I just walk away -- but not everyone who is rude is going to be violent as well.

That's a cop-out.
2013-01-19 11:28:24 AM
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: "Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits."

Or specifically, as the author described, "middle aged".

Its funny, she lacks the perspective to realize that she falls right into the same role of objectification she seems to think all men are guilty of.


When the author specified "middle aged," I assumed she was making a point that some of these men are old enough to know better.

I guess our dual interpretations say a lot: the men of Fark read it and think it's all about them. Is it about you, fellas? Do you behave like this? Then WTF are you wetting your pants about?
2013-01-19 11:21:47 AM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."

Because it is dangerous to do so.

Uh-huh. Every guy in the world is just waiting to beat the shiat out of women. I guess women are just that weak. No wonder they seek out violent, beefy men.


Seriously? Cant you do better than that? Its like watching somebody box an imaginary opponent.

Ok fine Ill indulge you. This is how it works. Every person we come across has the potential to be friend or foe. When out in a setting where we could be physically vulnerable (no matter who you are) we have to size up people we meet. If a drunk obnoxious idiot is saying rude things to you its generally not wise to call them on it or insult them.

If the person may not be drunk but is larger than you, or is driving a vehicle, or holding something that looks like they might use it as a weapon then you have to think very carefully before you respond to them.

If they are a boss or coworker you have to consider whether it is worth losing your job over.

What is it about the concept of "power deferential" that you dont get?
2013-01-19 11:20:57 AM
1 votes:

ExperianScaresCthulhu:
I see what you're saying, and agree with it. Again, leads back to the ho doth protest too much. She's not really, she's bragging. See also: hos who make a point of pointing out their BMI when it's on the low end.


I'm guessing you don't have any female friends.
2013-01-19 11:20:33 AM
1 votes:
Y'all are talking about the what.. but not the why. So many commenters, thinking they have insight or answers. You cannot run around putting out fires when you haven't figured out how to control the flame. It's truly the definition of futility.

Maybe I'm being WAY TOO serious for fark (of course i am), but speaking as a neglected child from a joke of a household, I came VERY close to becoming 'that guy'.

As I was caring for our flock of chickens in between posting to this oh-so-philisophical thread, it dawned on me as I watched one of our little polish caps, who gets picked on all the time, start pecking the shiat out of one of the younger, newer chickens:

THE PECKED BECOME THE PECKERS


/if you are a cynic like me, get some chickens. They really put it all in an intellectual perspective.
//PSA
2013-01-19 11:17:43 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: Alright lets say hes terrified to tell me if some guy groped his ass at a trade show or something. Why wouldnt he tell me if he had been harassed before I met him?


Interesting how you assume that the harassment would be from a man.
2013-01-19 11:16:52 AM
1 votes:

DrPainMD: The author, and most of the commenters, needs to grow a pair.


And you need to grow up.
2013-01-19 11:15:06 AM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: quickdraw:
So you go into every thread about a serious issue of widespread social injustice to complain about how it sucks to be you because youre a short white guy with a job? Your life sucks because you are ridiculously self-obsesse ...

I notice from your profile that you are a liberal. As such, you think all white males have it easy, and everybody else in the world is some sort of brave hero fighting insurmountable odds. Liberals really see the world in such ridiculous terms.


Aw what a cute little troll.

Heres a cookie now run along and play scamp.

kookykitsch.com
2013-01-19 11:15:01 AM
1 votes:
Ever notice that the worst thing you can call a man is a woman, and the worst thing you can cal a woman is "just like your mother"? Our culture has no specific coming of age rituals wherein you get to hang up your pimple cream and you get the privileges and responsibilities of not being able to get away with being a jagoff. Shame, that. It's still this wildly romantic and often ridiculous notion that we can just toss a line out there and the universe will bend our way. Bit f*cking silly, innit? There's a lot of jerks. Not all of them have testicle. The problem isn't gender or hormones. We know how those work. The problem is a broken culture where were taught that "getting away with something" is an achievement.
2013-01-19 11:14:38 AM
1 votes:
This thread is telling from the responses.

Most of you making negative comments about the writer have no problem posting a response in a thread to someone who is being an asswipe in print. So for the benefit of society, do it in real life.

I'm not a feminist, I just think people should treat each other with respect until the time when someone does something to lose that respect.

Two women walking down the sidewalk should be able to walk and converse without some idiot chasing them asking for their "taco". Next time you see something like this, call the dude out on it, make him realize he is being an asshole.

I've done this usually when it my friends who are being the asshole but I've done it to strangers as well.

Put yourself in your wife, or sister or daughter's position as some 220 lb man is following them down the street asking for their taco. Lets try to curb this behavior and call an asshole an asshole so that maybe next time he won't do it.
2013-01-19 11:14:37 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: medius: and the day comes when they stop looking

No it doesn't. A woman is always prey regardless of her age. You watched too many bad TV shows. My 92 year old grandma got hit on by her neighbor last year. He was creepy about it too.


i guess this is a case of

point What does it feel like to be a hot girl who gets old?

counterpoint
cdn.shopify.com
2013-01-19 11:13:37 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."

Because it is dangerous to do so.


Uh-huh. Every guy in the world is just waiting to beat the shiat out of women. I guess women are just that weak. No wonder they seek out violent, beefy men.
2013-01-19 11:13:25 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: So your position is that women are discriminated against because of their gender?


Yes.
2013-01-19 11:13:15 AM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: I notice from your profile that you are a liberal. As such, you think


Thanks for telling all of us what we think, Republican.
2013-01-19 11:09:21 AM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: quickdraw: KiwDaWabbit: I just wonder, who is the target audience for this article?

I'm pretty sure it's not men who creep on women.

Yes. She says that in the article. So she is most likely trying to reach those people who dont think they condone this behavior but who enable it by pretending it doesnt exist.

You mean like people who enable woman-on-mad domestic violence by pretending it doesn't exist? Or discrimination against boys in state schools? Or women who sue for childcare when they're clearly better off then the husband? Or female child abusers? Or women who make false rape claims?


Yep. Just like that. And we have had Fark threads about all those topics. This thread is about sexual harassment against women in an urban setting.
2013-01-19 11:09:16 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: Your life sucks because you are ridiculously self-obsessed


Pot meet kettle.
2013-01-19 11:07:27 AM
1 votes:

DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other. It is not always because men are sexist that they do this, it is often because they have an in-group in which that sort of behaviour towards each other is normal and they simply extend that behaviour to others.

When men do it to other men they get to hear that they should just suck it up. If they do it to a woman they get complaints about sexism. Just remember this womenfolk: you do not want to be treated the way men treat each other. That would be how you get treated now and then some.


So your position is that women are discriminated against because of their gender?
2013-01-19 11:06:27 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: Aar1012: quickdraw: Why wouldnt he tell me if he had been harassed before I met him?

Sexual Assault/harassment for males is generally harder to report and more Than likely under reported. Men may feel less than a man if they report it or feel it'll be ignored by society since "it doesn't happen to men'. Studies show that men are, however, likely to report it to an unknown individual (say a hotline resource) than a loved one for they would fear being judged

I can assure we have discussed much much more potentially shame inducing incidents in both our lives. After being in love for 13 years you tend to get around to talking about everything.


I'm just pointing out why you shouldn't be surprised if he hasn't told you. Sexual assault/harassment, as a whole, is terrible. It annoys me, however, when I have had discussions of reported male sexual assaults with people that work to prevent sexual assault and they just dismiss it.

Is it worse for women? Yes.

Does that mean it doesn't happen to men? No
2013-01-19 11:04:26 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: Where in the article does it say "All men are rapists?" I'll tell you. No where. The article describes her experiences of being harrassed.  Its not like shes advocating castration. You can put your lance down. The male population doesnt need your white-knighting.


Oh ffs, are you seriously saying that the "all men are potential rapists" undertone is absent from the article?
2013-01-19 11:03:25 AM
1 votes:

lolpix: Poor Emmet Till. He never did anything to deserve being dragged into such a tiresome conversation.


The lady made comments about brown men and her being a white woman, in a blog about unwanted sexual attention.

Emmit got killed cuz some white biatch let her community punish a child for (allegedly) daring to consider her sexually.

The pedestal is that some women are above other men's league, how dare those men (allegedly) consider her sexually, how intriguing, how complimentary if only they were in the woman's league, but they are not therefore it's unwanted and insulting.

You know what I mean? (BLT where are you? fk this.. ugh)
2013-01-19 11:01:15 AM
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: "Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits."

Or specifically, as the author described, "middle aged".

Its funny, she lacks the perspective to realize that she falls right into the same role of objectification she seems to think all men are guilty of.



I'm middle-aged but I'm aware that chasing a woman below a certain age isn't just unrealistic, it's icky.

I don't have a problem accepting tfa's author's view that this behavior's frightening and insulting to her and other women as well. I can only imagine that for women who aren't as easily frightened and insulted, this behavior still gets tiresome from time to time. But no matter who she is, the old dude/younger woman thing only adds a big layer of creepy.


Parmenius: I really dislike having to prove that those jackasses don't represent my gender, and threads like this do not help.



This.
2013-01-19 11:00:08 AM
1 votes:
Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."
2013-01-19 10:58:53 AM
1 votes:
I don't know a single man who acts like that. While I'm not saying that those assholes don't exist, as far I can tell it's a low percentage of the population, and us regular guys don't respect them.
2013-01-19 10:57:06 AM
1 votes:
Serious question: if "men" suddenly stopped giving the writer of the article attention, would she be more happy or less happy? Be honest.

I'm speaking strictly about the writer of the article, not women in general.
2013-01-19 10:54:51 AM
1 votes:
All property is theft, all sex is rape, all commerce is oppression. And other overwrought and painstakingly delineated college theses that stack up to f*ck all in the real world. Did we really come up with brave and empowering new world when we decided that being ladies and gentlemen was "old hat". That old hat was a pretty useful ledge in our climb out of the social primordial goo, y'all. And so far, we haven't exactly been farting rainbows on each other by declaring it irrelevant.
2013-01-19 10:54:42 AM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: I'm defending "men" in general.

Why?

Why? I dunno... because there just might be some men out there who are decent human beings?


Was there one named in the article?
2013-01-19 10:53:13 AM
1 votes:
The an article written by a provocateur feminist, a staple article full of truths from both side to get debating juices flow.

Just curious, has she ever picked up a tab on a first date with a guy?

/Sexist cultural assumptions, you starting pulling the thread on them and pretty soon you have four fingers pointing back at you.
2013-01-19 10:52:53 AM
1 votes:
Asking

lackadaisicalfreakshow: Holy shiatcakes, it's rare to see 200+ comments of so many people JUST NOT GETTING IT.

Your intrusion into my life is not welcome. Keep it to yourself!


You seem perplexed that a large population of emotionally stunted male Farkers would struggle with empathy for this lady blogger.
2013-01-19 10:50:45 AM
1 votes:

Easy Reader: Also published as "A Morning's Stroll In Italy".


Oh so THIS

Backpacked around europe a few times, and had several "Italy girlfriends" - girl backpackers who'd pair up with guys to travel with, because what TFA describes is nothing. That guy "pelvic thrusting" in Chicago? He'd have been rubbing up against you and grabbing a tit in Rome.
2013-01-19 10:50:05 AM
1 votes:
Poor Emmet Till. He never did anything to deserve being dragged into such a tiresome conversation.
2013-01-19 10:47:45 AM
1 votes:

someonelse: halfof33: Wow, are really greenlighting crappy feminist blogs now??

Your blog sucks.

As opposed to, say, jammiewearingfool or the unskewed polls guy or any number of other crap blogs that FARK links to all the time? You're shocked, shocked!


As long as we are on the same page that this blog sucks, I'm down with your post, fembro.

She proved that the plural of anecdote is "anec-data!"
2013-01-19 10:47:04 AM
1 votes:

SnarfVader: gilgigamesh: Smock Pot: SnarfVader: WhippingBoy: Smock Pot: I don't know why women keep trying to tell men what it's like, because men are never going to get it. Ever. No matter what a woman says about this, no matter how many analogies she makes, no matter how she says it, men will respond with... pretty much everything in this thread. They will continue to act like untrained dogs around women they want to fark and shiat all over women they deem too old or too ugly to fark.

Yep, this is true.

No, it's bullshiat. Not all men are like that, especially not the ones like me who have daughters they want to see succeed. Quit lumping us all together.

If you aren't like the men described in the article, great. Be an example and stand up for women when you see this shiat.

Just understand that as a man, you're still never gonna get it.

I *never* see men act like this, which is why I think the article is bullshiat.

Maybe that's the real issue. I wonder if cat calls are a rural vs urban thing. I just can't imagine myself or anybody I know doing this or groping women on the subway. I guess I really can't relate.


It may be regional.  I live in the South.  There's a certain gentility factor: women who work in my office have the door held open for them, men wait for them to exit the elevator before exiting themselves, that sort of thing.  There is a sexism at work there, but only the passive kind only your most angry feminists get worked up about.

I can only imagine that some lout who groped a woman exiting an elevator would probably find himself leaving the elevator with a few broken fingers.
2013-01-19 10:46:59 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Men are graded on their height. Women can control all of the above. Men can not control their height.

So your point is that you are judged on one physical attribute and women are judged on dozens of them - some of which they can control? And your using that to show how mens lives are just the same as womens?

Women can control those 'dozens of things'. Men cannot. Bottom line. Women have it easier than men when it comes to using the softer skills to get what they want. Also bottom line.

Shorter men are screwed in ways the 'nice guys' look at, shake their heads and sigh saying 'there but for the grace of God..' You're right that no, men's lives and women's lives are not the same. But it's not like men don't face their own kinds of harassments, rejections, and attempts by others to overpower them on the daily. Shorter men are going to experience it more than taller men. And, unlike women, they have no social outlets and no social sympathy for fighting against it. Shrug.

I get it yes - it sucks to be a short guy. What does that have to do with never feeling safe when you leave the house just because of your gender? Do people openly mock you for your height as an adult? Do they yell about how youre the perfect height to suck their dick? Because those are the things that happen to short women.


Shorter men can be rendered invisible in the presence of taller men. Women render shorter men invisible in the presence of taller men. Women can subconsciously socially castrate shorter men while in the pursuit of taller men. Is it worse to be openly mocked in words, better to be mocked by actions?

Nobody's blues are the same, but they're still the blues. That's all.
2013-01-19 10:45:02 AM
1 votes:
I read this as, "I've got a huge ass and black guys like to comment on it."

Jailbreak the patriarchy! lol
2013-01-19 10:39:45 AM
1 votes:

quickdraw: WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: I'm defending "men" in general.

Why?

Why? I dunno... because there just might be some men out there who are decent human beings?

Nowhere in that article does it imply there are no good men. FFS just because a women says lots of men act like assholes doesnt mean all men do. If I said the Olive Garden sucks would you feel the need to defend all Italian restaurants?


Blacks have to. Why not generic racial-not-specific men?
2013-01-19 10:38:22 AM
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: FEMALE LIFE PLAN:
0-15 force men to give you attention by getting in their faces
15-30 complain about too much attention from men
30-100 force men to give you attention by getting in their faces


I know, right? 18-month-old girls are the worst. Always demanding attention. Feed me, change my diaper, feed me again. It's awful.
2013-01-19 10:37:50 AM
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: Smock Pot: SnarfVader: WhippingBoy: Smock Pot: I don't know why women keep trying to tell men what it's like, because men are never going to get it. Ever. No matter what a woman says about this, no matter how many analogies she makes, no matter how she says it, men will respond with... pretty much everything in this thread. They will continue to act like untrained dogs around women they want to fark and shiat all over women they deem too old or too ugly to fark.

Yep, this is true.

No, it's bullshiat. Not all men are like that, especially not the ones like me who have daughters they want to see succeed. Quit lumping us all together.

If you aren't like the men described in the article, great. Be an example and stand up for women when you see this shiat.

Just understand that as a man, you're still never gonna get it.

I *never* see men act like this, which is why I think the article is bullshiat.


Maybe that's the real issue. I wonder if cat calls are a rural vs urban thing. I just can't imagine myself or anybody I know doing this or groping women on the subway. I guess I really can't relate.
2013-01-19 10:35:51 AM