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(A letter to some guy)   "Where's my magic button, the switch I can flip to show men like you what it feels like on the other side of your 'jokes' and 'compliments'?"   (rolereboot.org) divider line 1001
    More: Scary, Liam Payne, female politicians, magic, patriarchy  
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22239 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2013 at 8:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-19 03:08:01 PM

Pincy: halB: Pincy: douchebag/hater: shastacola: God, the male butthurt comments in this thread are really pathetic. I look forward to the day when your 14 year old daughter get the shiat scared out of her by some 30 year old stranger who thinks it's his right to comment on her ass. Make sure she understands that she shouldn't dress so slutty or be so attractive.Tell her to get used to it,she's got many years of strangers with a bizarre sense of entitlement judging her attire and figure.

You, kind woman, are missing the point and that point is this:

SOME men are jerks, SOME MEN. NOT 'most men'. NOT a 'majority of men. NOT EVEN a substantial minority of men.

You and the writer need to get a grip. The small coterie of guys that are pigs in public is a fact of life and for YOU to get all butthurt over a tiny percentage of men with poor social skills shows that you've learned nothing about life in however many years you've been around.

As for dragging a hypothetical daughter into the discuss is a move worthy of every feminist and liberal hack around right up to Barack Obama.

'It's for the children'. What bull shiat.

If YOU aren't raising your daughter to be alert and aware and able to defend herself, if need be, makes YOU a shiatty mom.

Look at the world the way it is, NOT the way you wish/want it to be.

Farking allah, women (and men) like you are boring and self-centered.

And you are missing the point that sexual harassment and especially rape happens a ton more to women than it does to men.

The majority of rape in America is man on man.

So you as a man (I'm assuming you are a man from your user name) are always thinking in the back of your mind wherever you go that you could be raped and you need to be aware of any men in your environment? And all of your male friends feel the same way too? And your father had a talk with you when you were a young kid warning you about the possibility that you might be raped by a man someday and how you can protect yourself?


I'd hope he didn't have that talk. The way they brainwash girls with those "talks" is disgusting. Every man is a potential rapist. Anyone who gives you any unwanted attention is a stalker. Even university freshman are required to take little mini-courses ingraining the bullshiat into every female student before they can enroll in classes.

Men feel fear of something bad happening. They're not visualizing being raped (for the most part), but of being attacked in some way. It could be being robbed, beaten, murdered, raped, or just being confronted and made uncomfortable. Perhaps it's worse in women (this could never be proven either way since no one knows what it's like on both sides), but an unarmed man is just about as vulnerable as an unarmed woman against an armed assailant.
 
2013-01-19 03:08:28 PM

Pincy: Mambo Bananapatch: Pincy: CasperImproved: The reality is that we are all vulnerable to attack.

I'm assuming you are a man. You really walk around with the fear that you could be raped?

Do you suppose that's the only bad thing that could ever happen to anybody?

Umm, pretty sure the article we are discussing in this thread is about sexual harassment and rape. But I know, anybody at any time could be shot by some roving gang of thugs so women should just shut up about it.


Violent crime is violent crime. Trying to make it sound like women suffer it more than say, a gay man who got beat within an inch of his life, is very intellectually dishonest, and the kind of ultra feminism that gets on reasonable people's nerves, regardless of gender/sex.

The article is a guide for the conversation, not a strict rule book. That's how conversation works, it ebbs and flows and gets carried off into places where the article is lacking.

Getting hit on when you don't want it, or in a manner that you find annoying is no different than a thousand other ways other people get annoyed by ignorant assholes. They're all born of the same human flaw of a lack of empathy and understanding and tolerance.

You are not special because you have a vagina, or because you like to pretend as if you do. The world is absolutely full of assholes of all varieties, the thing is, most of them are not criminal. Most of the behavior from them is merely annoying, no less annoying than your own personal faults.

What you find distasteful is just that. however, your behavior of flaunting that here denotes yet another brand of ass-holiness. Some people find solace in their supposedly superior morals, some in their supposedly superior etiquette, some in their supposedly superior diet(or physique, or language dialect, or above and beyond grooming habits, political stance, etc). These people with superiority complexes are assholes because they clearly and consistently hold themselves above people that think a little bit differently, even if only slightly.

You come across as one of those types, possessing of an irrational stubbornness. If you do not mean to, if you are genuinely merely ignorant, I suggest you work on rectifying that.
 
2013-01-19 03:09:11 PM
The woman's writing and attitude is PROOF of why women are often inferior and are treated differently.
 
2013-01-19 03:09:21 PM

bunner: Coastalgrl: bunner: Coastalgrl: Here's a double standard I have encountered.

How come a guy can put two fingers to his lips and snake his tounge through the opening but it's illegal for me to flick him off?

Because that man is an arrogant, bedwetting, butterheaded dolt with the intelligence quotient of a piss pail who thinks that dating consists of making women feel uncomfortable and then laughing about it with his also thick as pigsh*t friends. And we haven't found a cure for that yet.

I agree with your statement but it doesn't answer the question. The act of flipping him off is a non-violent way of telling him I'm not interested and to buzz off. However, I'm told that I can actually get arrested by giving him the finger but it's ok for him to gesture to me that he would like to perform oral on me.

For one thing, no cop with any dignity is going to drag a girl to jail for giving the finger to a jerk. All you'd have to do is tell them that you felt threatened and they'd have him hugging a wall. And, FWIW, guess what dickbag the cunnilingus salesman is looking for. A reaction. You gave him one. Don't. Stare through him like you just saw him sh*tting on on the sidewalk and hoof on.


I kind of agree with you here about giving him a reaction. The reaction he should be getting is from other men telling him that he's a disgusting pervert.
 
2013-01-19 03:11:08 PM

tonguedepressor: Bisu: onyxruby: gilgigamesh: t may be regional. I live in the South. There's a certain gentility factor: women who work in my office have the door held open for them, men wait for them to exit the elevator before exiting themselves, that sort of thing

When I was about 22 or so I held the door open for a woman with a large armful of binders (10 inch stack). I walked on and she called out demanding that I stop. I was chewed as she explained that she had 'two perfectly good working arms' and started chewing me out in the hallway in front of everyone as she busily declared I was a sexist pig.

I was working for very well known company in their headquarters building, my office happened to be right near human resources. Turned out she worked in human resources and she decided to go full bore feminazi on me.

I was formally written up for sexual harassment, I was forced to go to sensitivity training where I was taught that as a white male that I am inherently evil. I was told that if there was ever another incident I would be fired. My career in that corporation was ruined, all for a woman that I never talked to, touched, or even gawked at. Literally all I did, all I was accused of doing, was holding the door open for her.

For years after that I refused to hold the door open for anyone woman at work, letting it shut behind me without care. Now I know better, but when your young your easy prey for someone like that.

You should have filed a lawsuit. Your career there was ruined anyway. As a man, being accused by a woman makes you guilty. At least you could force her to try to prove your intent in front of a judge (and hope it's a male judge).

What intent!?? According to his version he simply held a door open for someone and a fellow co worker to boot. There is no intent in his version, you can't be accused of sexual harassment for holding a door open for someone.


Yet he WAS accused, and he was written up. Which is why he needed to file suit. I'm confused as to what you think I said...
 
2013-01-19 03:12:00 PM

Pincy: bunner: Coastalgrl: bunner: Coastalgrl: Here's a double standard I have encountered.

How come a guy can put two fingers to his lips and snake his tounge through the opening but it's illegal for me to flick him off?

Because that man is an arrogant, bedwetting, butterheaded dolt with the intelligence quotient of a piss pail who thinks that dating consists of making women feel uncomfortable and then laughing about it with his also thick as pigsh*t friends. And we haven't found a cure for that yet.

I agree with your statement but it doesn't answer the question. The act of flipping him off is a non-violent way of telling him I'm not interested and to buzz off. However, I'm told that I can actually get arrested by giving him the finger but it's ok for him to gesture to me that he would like to perform oral on me.

For one thing, no cop with any dignity is going to drag a girl to jail for giving the finger to a jerk. All you'd have to do is tell them that you felt threatened and they'd have him hugging a wall. And, FWIW, guess what dickbag the cunnilingus salesman is looking for. A reaction. You gave him one. Don't. Stare through him like you just saw him sh*tting on on the sidewalk and hoof on.

I kind of agree with you here about giving him a reaction. The reaction he should be getting is from other men telling him that he's a disgusting pervert.


Why just other men? Why not other people, men and women alike?
 
2013-01-19 03:12:21 PM

One Bad Apple:
Matthew Sheppard knows

James Byrd jr knows

Reginald Denny knows
Women are not nearly the victims of violence as often as men are. Not even close. A woman (here in the US) being attacked is a "Man Bites Dog" story.


Yeah, but those don't count, because they were merely physically attacked, instead of being attacked with vastly more powerful words.

/yes, a majority of the population really feel that way
//and we are all paying the price for it, whether we want it or not
 
2013-01-19 03:19:15 PM

Bisu: tonguedepressor: Bisu: onyxruby: gilgigamesh: t may be regional. I live in the South. There's a certain gentility factor: women who work in my office have the door held open for them, men wait for them to exit the elevator before exiting themselves, that sort of thing

When I was about 22 or so I held the door open for a woman with a large armful of binders (10 inch stack). I walked on and she called out demanding that I stop. I was chewed as she explained that she had 'two perfectly good working arms' and started chewing me out in the hallway in front of everyone as she busily declared I was a sexist pig.

I was working for very well known company in their headquarters building, my office happened to be right near human resources. Turned out she worked in human resources and she decided to go full bore feminazi on me.

I was formally written up for sexual harassment, I was forced to go to sensitivity training where I was taught that as a white male that I am inherently evil. I was told that if there was ever another incident I would be fired. My career in that corporation was ruined, all for a woman that I never talked to, touched, or even gawked at. Literally all I did, all I was accused of doing, was holding the door open for her.

For years after that I refused to hold the door open for anyone woman at work, letting it shut behind me without care. Now I know better, but when your young your easy prey for someone like that.

You should have filed a lawsuit. Your career there was ruined anyway. As a man, being accused by a woman makes you guilty. At least you could force her to try to prove your intent in front of a judge (and hope it's a male judge).

What intent!?? According to his version he simply held a door open for someone and a fellow co worker to boot. There is no intent in his version, you can't be accused of sexual harassment for holding a door open for someone.

Yet he WAS accused, and he was written up. Which is why he needed to file suit. I'm ...


I was attempting to convey a very strong concern as to the veracity of his claim that holding a door open for a co worker could be held up as a form of sexual harassment.
 
2013-01-19 03:20:21 PM

DrPainMD: The author, and most of the commenters, needs to grow a pair.


This was an interesting, if not new, piece. Germaine Greer was writing essentially this, with more wit, 40 years ago. I found this " I almost fell into the trap of proving to you how undeserving we were of harassment and I'm embarrassed to admit that to you now." the most revealing bit, because it's been my experience that for every male who only semi-realizes he's making unwelcome and unsolicited advances in form of "sexy talk" (the test being "would you say this to a man, buddy?"), there's a woman ready to undercut other women by arguing "she asked for it" through dress, makeup, or merely being young and not hideous, as if young and not hideous is the day pass to harrassment. Perhaps remembering the few brief years at the end of my own teens when I looked good to gay chickenhawks, and thus caught some uninvited attention/ass grabs from guys who looked like steroidal Javier Bardems, is colouring my attitude here. Yeah, probably.

I'm under no illusions such a piece will change many minds, and how elements of it seemed whiny/"white women's problems", but still found it worth the read.
 
2013-01-19 03:21:22 PM

clowncar: I guess the gender-reversed issue would be this:

Imagine that women think it's funny to hit strange men in the nuts if they're not paying attention when they walk by. The woman's girlfriends giggle when she does it, the men glare after they've been hit and shuffle off.

The men try to explain to women that it HURTS when women hit them in the nuts. The women explain that guys are asking for it when they're walking without holding an object or their hands in front of their crotches when they're walking down the street.

Men say they're NOT ASKING FOR IT just because they're swinging their arms at their sides as they walk down the street, and women say, hey, you'll get the right to stop getting hit in the nuts when you stop getting paid 25% more than women and stop discriminating against women when considering management positions.


Except for the fact that saying "You look nice. Wanna go out with me?" is absolutely nothing like physically assaulting someone. Even saying "Hey, mamacita, nice ass!" is nothing like physically assaulting someone. Even looking a woman up and down, licking your lips and saying "I'd like to fark your taco" is... say it with me...absolutely nothing like physically assaulting someone.

Other then that, it's a good analogy.
 
2013-01-19 03:21:52 PM

Pincy: bunner: Coastalgrl: bunner: Coastalgrl: Here's a double standard I have encountered.

How come a guy can put two fingers to his lips and snake his tounge through the opening but it's illegal for me to flick him off?

Because that man is an arrogant, bedwetting, butterheaded dolt with the intelligence quotient of a piss pail who thinks that dating consists of making women feel uncomfortable and then laughing about it with his also thick as pigsh*t friends. And we haven't found a cure for that yet.

I agree with your statement but it doesn't answer the question. The act of flipping him off is a non-violent way of telling him I'm not interested and to buzz off. However, I'm told that I can actually get arrested by giving him the finger but it's ok for him to gesture to me that he would like to perform oral on me.

For one thing, no cop with any dignity is going to drag a girl to jail for giving the finger to a jerk. All you'd have to do is tell them that you felt threatened and they'd have him hugging a wall. And, FWIW, guess what dickbag the cunnilingus salesman is looking for. A reaction. You gave him one. Don't. Stare through him like you just saw him sh*tting on on the sidewalk and hoof on.

I kind of agree with you here about giving him a reaction. The reaction he should be getting is from other men telling him that he's a disgusting pervert.


I've definitely done that. The only difficulty is you don't know whether it will make the woman feel better or worse. It could just be more unwanted attention, or it could make her relieved that I'm now the target of any further attacks instead of her. She could interpret it as me seeing her as a defenseless victim and be offended of my intervention, or she could feel comfort in the fact that someone is on her side. Women like the article writer would undoubtedly be offended by my intervention into her victimization, whereas more rational women would probably welcome it.
 
2013-01-19 03:24:12 PM

PsiChick: One Bad Apple: Wow. There's a lot of biatches in here that must have had an especially long walk of shame this morning.

So, what age were you when your mom told you to always hold your keys out under your knuckles in case you need to fight someone, and that you should take self-defense classes together as mother-daughter bonding time? I was about twelve. Most girls are around that age. And no, my mom's not paranoid. Part of 'the talk' is when you share your near-rape experience with your daughter and explain how you got away, because that happens to every woman.

Because shiatstains like you call anyone who brings up a harassment charge a whiny biatch who needs to get laid. I'm sure you don't know what 'obstruction of justice' means, but you and your ilk are walking examples of it.



I first saw an improvised key ring bagh nahk used by an uncle of mine when I was 9 or 10. The guy he hit was blinded in one eye as a result. He kept that eye in a jar of rubbing alcohol for years and showed it to everyone.

We all carried some kind of weapon even as kids and they got used. A padlock with a handkerchief tied around it was my favorite. My own daughter is 7 and I have taught her stuff I withheld from her older brothers because I know if she uses them she will not be held to the same standards as them for discipline

Complaining about being harassed isn't what makes you (or anyone) a whiny biatch it is the idea that being a victim is a burden somehow exclusive to you because of your gender.
 
2013-01-19 03:25:11 PM

doubled99: The woman's writing and attitude is PROOF of why women are often inferior and are treated differently.


Differently than superior women or all men, inferior or superior?

Sorry, but I nod off talking to the "average" person, in part because they tend to be prone to broad, meaningless generalizations.

/likes me some 90 PROOF single malt.
 
2013-01-19 03:25:35 PM

Bisu: So you as a man (I'm assuming you are a man from your user name) are always thinking in the back of your mind wherever you go that you could be raped and you need to be aware of any men in your environment? And all of your male friends feel the same way too? And your father had a talk with you when you were a young kid warning you about the possibility that you might be raped by a man someday and how you can protect yourself?

I'd hope he didn't have that talk. The way they brainwash girls with those "talks" is disgusting. Every man is a potential rapist. Anyone who gives you any unwanted attention is a stalker. Even university freshman are required to take little mini-courses ingraining the bullshiat into every female student before they can enroll in classes.

Men feel fear of something bad happening. They're not visualizing being raped (for the most part), but of being attacked in some way. It could be being robbed, beaten, murdered, raped, or just being confronted and made uncomfortable. Perhaps it's worse in women (this could never be proven either way since no one knows what it's like on both sides), but an unarmed man is just about as vulnerable as an unarmed woman against an armed assailant.


So from what I can tell, neither you nor any of your male friends worry about being raped. Remember, that's what the article was discussing. Rape is primarily perpetrated against women. It would be foolish to pretend otherwise and not to arm women with the information they need to avoid it.

And that "every man is a potential rapist" thing. Did you know that the majority of rape victims knew their attacker? Most rape is not some stranger pulling a woman into a car or breaking into their home. I think that is the point they are trying to get across.
 
2013-01-19 03:26:14 PM

Coastalgrl: I agree with your statement but it doesn't answer the question. The act of flipping him off is a non-violent way of telling him I'm not interested and to buzz off. However, I'm told that I can actually get arrested by giving him the finger but it's ok for him to gesture to me that he would like to perform oral on me.


Whoever told you that is... probably wrong.

Besides, all you need to do is mine performing oral on him... then biting, chewing, and spitting.
 
2013-01-19 03:26:15 PM
Aw crap. I just ran out of popcorn.

And on Popcorn Appriciation day!?! This is an outrage.
 
2013-01-19 03:27:32 PM

clowncar: I guess the gender-reversed issue would be this:

Imagine that women think it's funny to hit strange men in the nuts if they're not paying attention when they walk by. The woman's girlfriends giggle when she does it, the men glare after they've been hit and shuffle off.

The men try to explain to women that it HURTS when women hit them in the nuts. The women explain that guys are asking for it when they're walking without holding an object or their hands in front of their crotches when they're walking down the street.

Men say they're NOT ASKING FOR IT just because they're swinging their arms at their sides as they walk down the street, and women say, hey, you'll get the right to stop getting hit in the nuts when you stop getting paid 25% more than women and stop discriminating against women when considering management positions.


This is my favourite post in this thread.
 
2013-01-19 03:29:23 PM

Bisu: I've definitely done that. The only difficulty is you don't know whether it will make the woman feel better or worse. It could just be more unwanted attention, or it could make her relieved that I'm now the target of any further attacks instead of her. She could interpret it as me seeing her as a defenseless victim and be offended of my intervention, or she could feel comfort in the fact that someone is on her side. Women like the article writer would undoubtedly be offended by my intervention into her victimization, whereas more rational women would probably welcome it.


And if you get it wrong, either defending her when she doesn't want to be defended or failing to defend her when she does want to be defended, you are a horrible enabler of the rape culture.

/so either develop psychic/precognitive powers, or go into exile with the rest of the "misogynists"
//funny thing is, I actually know how the "psychic powers" con game works
///I just refuse to use it for my own benefit
 
2013-01-19 03:29:57 PM
FTFA: We're on a quest for tacos .. You've been loitering outside the bar with your friends, but you hear the word "taco" and soon you're in lock step with us, asking us about our "tacos," laughing, hooting back to your friends. We push past-literally shoving you-and continue on our way.

MY TAKE: They're dumbasses, but they were doing that to everyone. You state yourself you weren't being bothered until the word 'taco'. Drunk dudes find easy target. Drunk dudes won't remember you 3 seconds after you and your friends leave the immediate vicinity.

FTFA: I'm on the phone with my mom on my way to yoga when a guy leans out of a doorway, drags on his cigarette and gestures with his pelvis how much he is enjoying my yoga pants.

MY TAKE: How would you know it was the yoga pants? Why couldn't it been because you were on the phone and he thought it would be funny to distract you from your conversation? Or because the sky was blue? By assuming it was the pants, then........ the implication is that how one dresses really *does* affect how one is treated; and if you don't want to be treated that way, you should not dress that way. Mixed message.

FTFA: I'm walking home from the grocery store and a middle-aged guy, maybe high, maybe drunk, yells at me, "Get back here, girl!" I'm waiting for the bus when a carful of bros whips by; one leans out the passenger window, points at the girls waiting at the bus stop and yells, "Yes, Yes, No...Yes!"

MY TAKE: No one says 'get back here!' without something else preceding it. What did she leave out? Also, what's a car full of bros? Was she making a frat comment or a racial comment?

FTFA: Comedian Ever Mainard sums up this mindset in her excellent bit about the fact that women are constantly aware that "their rape" could happen at any time. She says, "The problem is that every woman has that one moment when you think, here's my rape! This is it. OK, 11:47pm, how old am I? 25? Alright, here's my rape! It's like we wait for it, like, what took you so long?" I've had that moment. I was 20, it was about 11pm and I was on a sidewalk in Barcelona. It didn't happen, and that's a story for another time, but Mainard's observations stands; I remember thinking "So this is how it happens."

MY TAKE: I've never felt that way at all. Really? Waiting one's whole life for the day when one gets raped? Is she serious? I guess she is, several other women in this thread have co-signed with her. I mean, I saw it in King's The Stand, one of the post-plague anecdotes, and I thought it was a joke. But women really feel that way?

I'm very sheltered. I admit that. I'm also less gender-sensitive than race-sensitive.

FTFA: Do you want to know the saddest part? When I started this essay describing my Friday night, I almost included descriptions of what my roommate and I were wearing. I almost mentioned that we were casually dressed, that our clothes weren't revealing, that neither of us was drunk. I almost fell into the trap of proving to you how undeserving we were of harassment and I'm embarrassed to admit that to you now.

MY TAKE: She already did. With the curious 'he pointed at his pelvis because of my yoga pants' assumption. She doesn't want to admit it, but she believes that how she dresses and how her body looks is the reason why men harass her. She wasn't drunk? She also believes being drunk is an excuse. There's no reason to mention it, unless it has to be mentioned. She's playing chicken, but she only wins it on her blog.

FTFA: But that is not all that happened. You were a harasser, the guy they make subway posters about, the guy who contributes to rape culture.

MY TAKE: None of those dudes were attempting to rape her. They were fking with her and harassing her, but they were not attempting to rape her. As several others on this thread have already pointed out, dudes make the mistake of treating women like they treat other dudes. Harassment sucks, but there's a line between calling someone out for being a jerk, and calling someone out for being a potential rapist.

That pedestal is never going to be ground to dust.

FTFA: Ask them if they've ever made up a boyfriend to get a guy to leave them alone, if they've ever gotten off a train car and moved to the next because you just never know, if they've ever shelled out for a cab because men like you were at the bus stop. Do you really want to be that guy?

MY TAKE: Amber Lamps wore a pair of headphones on the bus to block people out. Maybe she should invest in some, too. And some mace. Paying for a cab because some dudes were catcalling? Must be nice to be rich enough to make that decision. Nothing she described has been in the category of 'I feared for my life'. She's described some very annoying situations, but nothing of the calibre of 'some dude is stalking me and has been staring at me for three days in a row'.

Waiting (and, frankly, preparing) for The Day One Will Be Raped, is no way to go through life. Guys make up girlfriends, guys know how to dramatically avoid someone they don't want to walk near, guys will leave a skeevy situation.

Guys don't see themselves as victims forced to do something they don't want to, when doing it, they see themselves as problem solvers taking control of their life.
 
2013-01-19 03:30:30 PM

tonguedepressor: Bisu: Yet he WAS accused, and he was written up. Which is why he needed to file suit ...

I was attempting to convey a very strong concern as to the veracity of his claim that holding a door open for a co worker could be held up as a form of sexual harassment.


Ah, I see you've been fortunate to not have been in a similar situation. It's quite shocking when it happens to you. When every ounce of logic is on your side, yet every single person who can stop the insanity from happening either looks the other way or takes the woman's side. The only answer I've found for it is liability. They see the threat of a lawsuit as being greater from the accuser if swift, stern action isn't taken, as opposed to the threat of a lawsuit by an innocently accused "perpetrator." The only way to change that is for more lawsuits to go the other way, and for organizations/corporations to reassess their strategy for resolving such incidents. Money is the only thing that will sway them.
 
2013-01-19 03:31:03 PM

Bedstead Polisher: This is my favourite post in this thread.


MINE TOO! I mean you gotta be trying really hard to post something so stupid. I appreciate the effort.
 
2013-01-19 03:31:56 PM

bunner: Coastalgrl: bunner: Coastalgrl: Here's a double standard I have encountered.

How come a guy can put two fingers to his lips and snake his tounge through the opening but it's illegal for me to flick him off?

Because that man is an arrogant, bedwetting, butterheaded dolt with the intelligence quotient of a piss pail who thinks that dating consists of making women feel uncomfortable and then laughing about it with his also thick as pigsh*t friends. And we haven't found a cure for that yet.

I agree with your statement but it doesn't answer the question. The act of flipping him off is a non-violent way of telling him I'm not interested and to buzz off. However, I'm told that I can actually get arrested by giving him the finger but it's ok for him to gesture to me that he would like to perform oral on me.

For one thing, no cop with any dignity is going to drag a girl to jail for giving the finger to a jerk. All you'd have to do is tell them that you felt threatened and they'd have him hugging a wall. And, FWIW, guess what dickbag the cunnilingus salesman is looking for. A reaction. You gave him one. Don't. Stare through him like you just saw him sh*tting on on the sidewalk and hoof on.


I enjoy your comments. It's almost bizarre to see coherent, non-snarky, reasonable responses.

So thanks for that.
 
2013-01-19 03:32:01 PM
Bedstead Polisher

clowncar: I guess the gender-reversed issue would be this:

Imagine that women think it's funny to hit strange men in the nuts if they're not paying attention when they walk by. The woman's girlfriends giggle when she does it, the men glare after they've been hit and shuffle off.

The men try to explain to women that it HURTS when women hit them in the nuts. The women explain that guys are asking for it when they're walking without holding an object or their hands in front of their crotches when they're walking down the street.

Men say they're NOT ASKING FOR IT just because they're swinging their arms at their sides as they walk down the street, and women say, hey, you'll get the right to stop getting hit in the nuts when you stop getting paid 25% more than women and stop discriminating against women when considering management positions.

This is my favourite post in this thread.


Yeah. Just can't argue with that kind of logic

It IS pretty amusing.
 
2013-01-19 03:32:42 PM
So if a guy yells, "show your tits" an a lady shows her tits, was he being an arsehole or not?
 
2013-01-19 03:32:54 PM

Arthur Jumbles: PanicMan: Arthur Jumbles: Bedstead Polisher: Arthur Jumbles: Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.

Imagine a fat, mustachioed, smells-like-cigarettes-and-Doritos, sweaty 20 year old woman attempting to grope you, where there's no escape, and she is definitely stronger than you.

Still the stuff of fantasies?

At 15? Sure! Most 15 year old boys are walking ball of hormones and having a willing partner instead of my hand would have been a welcome change. Would I want her as my girlfriend, no..... but as quickie? Why not.

And what if it was a man trapping you in that hospital elevator? How would you feel then?

Completely different situation. The point is that most teenage boys would welcome an advance by an older women and as a result have a hard time understanding why a women wouldn't be interested if the situation was flipped.


I agree. And I'm giving an example that makes it clearer how an unwanted sexual advance feels.
 
2013-01-19 03:33:19 PM

Tatterdemalian: /so either develop psychic/precognitive powers, or go into exile with the rest of the "misogynists"


I think you mean:
"Be Attractive"
...
"Don't be unattractive"
 
2013-01-19 03:35:09 PM

megarian: I enjoy your comments. It's almost bizarre to see coherent, non-snarky, reasonable responses.

So thanks for that.


I grew up surrounded by women. I like women. They're squidgy, they giggle a lot and you can fit four into a mid sized sedan. : )
 
2013-01-19 03:37:21 PM

bunner: megarian: I enjoy your comments. It's almost bizarre to see coherent, non-snarky, reasonable responses.

So thanks for that.

I grew up surrounded by women. I like women. They're squidgy, they giggle a lot and you can fit four into a mid sized sedan. : )


And we smell nice. Well, many of us. ;)
 
2013-01-19 03:37:38 PM

DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other.


Sooooo... Men catcall to each other on the street about their asses and sucking their dicks?
 
2013-01-19 03:38:07 PM

clowncar: I guess the gender-reversed issue would be this:

Imagine that women think it's funny to hit strange men in the nuts if they're not paying attention when they walk by. The woman's girlfriends giggle when she does it, the men glare after they've been hit and shuffle off.

The men try to explain to women that it HURTS when women hit them in the nuts. The women explain that guys are asking for it when they're walking without holding an object or their hands in front of their crotches when they're walking down the street.

Men say they're NOT ASKING FOR IT just because they're swinging their arms at their sides as they walk down the street, and women say, hey, you'll get the right to stop getting hit in the nuts when you stop getting paid 25% more than women and stop discriminating against women when considering management positions.


Too many anecdotes of women who made management because they spread their legs.

Anyway, the 25% is white men and asian men in American. Black men, Latino men and Native American men in American are underpaid, but guess which groups of men -- out of all five -- face the biggest hurdles. How exactly are the men at the bottom of the social order discriminating against the women at the top of the social order, just by existing?
 
2013-01-19 03:38:19 PM

Bedstead Polisher: clowncar: I guess the gender-reversed issue would be this:

Imagine that women think it's funny to hit strange men in the nuts if they're not paying attention when they walk by. The woman's girlfriends giggle when she does it, the men glare after they've been hit and shuffle off.

The men try to explain to women that it HURTS when women hit them in the nuts. The women explain that guys are asking for it when they're walking without holding an object or their hands in front of their crotches when they're walking down the street.

Men say they're NOT ASKING FOR IT just because they're swinging their arms at their sides as they walk down the street, and women say, hey, you'll get the right to stop getting hit in the nuts when you stop getting paid 25% more than women and stop discriminating against women when considering management positions.

This is my favourite post in this thread.


Why? Because it equates verbal harassment with physical battery? I imagine it was a troll post because of that, and I'm hoping you like it because of the absurdity of the comparison (i.e. successful trolling).
 
2013-01-19 03:38:31 PM

halfof33: Bedstead Polisher: This is my favourite post in this thread.

MINE TOO! I mean you gotta be trying really hard to post something so stupid. I appreciate the effort.


It made me LOL several times. It created quite the mental picture.
 
2013-01-19 03:39:41 PM

Parmenius: I wonder how many people in this thread would have the courage to make their comments in person.  I wonder whether they actually conduct themselves in this barbaric way, or if it's just the Internet Misogyny Brigade.

I have  never treated women -or anyone else- as depicted in tfa, but I've certainly had to deal with the effects  of their foolishness.  And, with rare exceptions, if someone is behaving with all the civility of a gutter snipe it is a man doing it.  I really dislike having to prove that those jackasses don't represent my gender, and threads like this do not help.


THIS so incredibly much
 
2013-01-19 03:40:36 PM

megarian: And we smell nice. Well, many of us. ;)


I have this very basal, back bring sense of smell. It's our most primal sense. If there is a woman in a room I have known, I can smell her before I see her. I bought some incense at the bodega the other day because I picked up a stick and *bam*, I was back at my Jr H.S sweetheart's house, sitting on her sofa because it smelled just like her. Man, I love that. Just *snnnniffffff* mmmmmmm. Definitely
 
2013-01-19 03:42:01 PM

UndeadPoetsSociety: Parmenius: I wonder how many people in this thread would have the courage to make their comments in person.  I wonder whether they actually conduct themselves in this barbaric way, or if it's just the Internet Misogyny Brigade.

I have  never treated women -or anyone else- as depicted in tfa, but I've certainly had to deal with the effects  of their foolishness.  And, with rare exceptions, if someone is behaving with all the civility of a gutter snipe it is a man doing it.  I really dislike having to prove that those jackasses don't represent my gender, and threads like this do not help.

THIS so incredibly much


Yet you don't realize your words are making men on the fence think every woman is as psycho and sexist as the article writer.
 
2013-01-19 03:42:11 PM

cosmiquemuffin: DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other.

Sooooo... Men catcall to each other on the street about their asses and sucking their dicks?


Sadly we do exactly that sometimes.
 
2013-01-19 03:42:28 PM
back brain. I cannot, however, remember ever smelling a single typing teacher.
 
2013-01-19 03:43:42 PM

PanicMan: Arthur Jumbles: PanicMan: Arthur Jumbles: Bedstead Polisher: Arthur Jumbles: Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.

Imagine a fat, mustachioed, smells-like-cigarettes-and-Doritos, sweaty 20 year old woman attempting to grope you, where there's no escape, and she is definitely stronger than you.

Still the stuff of fantasies?

At 15? Sure! Most 15 year old boys are walking ball of hormones and having a willing partner instead of my hand would have been a welcome change. Would I want her as my girlfriend, no..... but as quickie? Why not.

And what if it was a man trapping you in that hospital elevator? How would you feel then?

Completely different situation. The point is that most teenage boys would welcome an advance by an older women and as a result have a hard time understanding why a women wouldn't be interested if the situation was flipped.

I agree. And I'm giving an example that makes it clearer how an unwanted sexual advance feels.


And I'm pointing out how most young men can't emotionally understand why a member of the opposite sex wouldn't appreciate sexual attention since they wouldn't have a problem with it themselves.
 
2013-01-19 03:45:53 PM

halfof33: Tatterdemalian: Reminds me of this comment by Richard Dawkins, regarding Rebecca Watson:

"The man in the elevator didn't physically touch her, didn't attempt to bar her way out of the elevator, didn't even use foul language at her. He spoke some words to her. Just words. She no doubt replied with words. That was that. Words. Only words, and apparently quite polite words at that....Rebecca's feeling that the man's proposition was 'creepy' was her own interpretation of his behavior, presumably not his. She was probably offended to about the same extent as I am offended if a man gets into an elevator with me chewing gum. But he does me no physical damage and I simply grin and bear it until either I or he gets out of the elevator. It would be different if he physically attacked me."

The problem is that some people think the world would be a better place if words were more important than deeds, simply because it's easier to speak words than perform deeds. These people have attained sufficient political power to transform the system into one in which words are, in fact, treated by the law as more important than deeds, to the degree than even deeds like rape and murder can be excused if the magic words "I know that was wrong, and I apologize" are uttered by the criminal, while dissenting opinions are met with the "social justice" of permanent exile, if not "morally justified homicide."

The crazy part about that is the guy in the elevator was someone she had been hanging out with all night.. She appears not to have recognized him, because of a brain disorder she has. Seriously


Never heard of the incident. Read up on the wiki. So............ she advocates 'critical thinking among women around the world', but when a dude she formerly admired disagrees with her, she cuts him out of her life and says she's never going to promote his works again? What changed with his works before he disagreed with her?

upload.wikimedia.org

biatches be lame.

/why was a 60 year old dude naming an asteroid after a barely 20 year old chick?
//and why did she allow it?
 
2013-01-19 03:46:44 PM

bunner: back brain. I cannot, however, remember ever smelling a single typing teacher.


That's where they get 'ya!

The smell of leather and unsmoked tobacco does strange happy things to my back brain.
 
2013-01-19 03:47:11 PM

One Bad Apple: PsiChick: One Bad Apple: Wow. There's a lot of biatches in here that must have had an especially long walk of shame this morning.

So, what age were you when your mom told you to always hold your keys out under your knuckles in case you need to fight someone, and that you should take self-defense classes together as mother-daughter bonding time? I was about twelve. Most girls are around that age. And no, my mom's not paranoid. Part of 'the talk' is when you share your near-rape experience with your daughter and explain how you got away, because that happens to every woman.

Because shiatstains like you call anyone who brings up a harassment charge a whiny biatch who needs to get laid. I'm sure you don't know what 'obstruction of justice' means, but you and your ilk are walking examples of it.


I first saw an improvised key ring bagh nahk used by an uncle of mine when I was 9 or 10. The guy he hit was blinded in one eye as a result. He kept that eye in a jar of rubbing alcohol for years and showed it to everyone.

We all carried some kind of weapon even as kids and they got used. A padlock with a handkerchief tied around it was my favorite. My own daughter is 7 and I have taught her stuff I withheld from her older brothers because I know if she uses them she will not be held to the same standards as them for discipline

Complaining about being harassed isn't what makes you (or anyone) a whiny biatch it is the idea that being a victim is a burden somehow exclusive to you because of your gender.


Oh, I'm not saying there aren't other, gender-neutral threats out there. But nowhere in that am I seeing that you have any f**king  clue what it's like to live in a world where you run the risk of being sexually harassed every time you step out the door, or when a stranger walks with you it's a fine line between not being a 'frigid biatch' and trying to be frosty enough so if you're raped, people won't claim it was your fault, or what it's like to have to  teach your daughters this.

Go read a Fark thread about date rape sometime. See why women do this shiat. See why men are demonized. Because when men who break the law aren't punished, there is no option beyond viewing all men as a threat. Want to fix it? Punish people who break the law. Don't excuse them because your uncle got in a fight and you happen to like fighting. And don't pretend your love of fighting is the same as being constantly on your guard because your boobs paint a target on your back.
 
2013-01-19 03:50:49 PM
I'm a woman and I've never been harrassed.

/Not sure if that's a good thing.

//I'll go cry by myself now...
 
2013-01-19 03:51:40 PM

megarian: bunner: back brain. I cannot, however, remember ever smelling a single typing teacher.

That's where they get 'ya!

The smell of leather and unsmoked tobacco does strange happy things to my back brain.


Miss Larsen (best teacher I ever had)'s musty, woolen business jacket ensemble, mimeo fluid, mothballs, roses, Brooks Brothers Lime, leaded gas, the difference between silk, undies, cotton undies and nylon undies that a woman is wearing, the earth after it rains, nail polish remover, (yech), Chanel, a woman's hair after she brushes it, fresh cut hardwood... yeah, That stuff is indelible, to me.
 
2013-01-19 03:52:03 PM

4seasons85!: I'm a woman and I've never been harrassed.

/Not sure if that's a good thing.



How YOU doin'


There, welcome to the club.
 
2013-01-19 03:54:33 PM

4seasons85!: I'm a woman and I've never been harrassed.

/Not sure if that's a good thing.

//I'll go cry by myself now...


As a man I've never been sexually harassed and I consider that a good thing. Is it different for women?
 
2013-01-19 03:56:03 PM
Ever wonder shy library books, redolent with the grubby hand musk of a thousand readers smell good, but a thrift shop full of used clothes smells like a cross between wet dog and ass?
 
2013-01-19 03:56:44 PM

PsiChick: One Bad Apple: PsiChick: One Bad Apple: Wow. There's a lot of biatches in here that must have had an especially long walk of shame this morning.

So, what age were you when your mom told you to always hold your keys out under your knuckles in case you need to fight someone, and that you should take self-defense classes together as mother-daughter bonding time? I was about twelve. Most girls are around that age. And no, my mom's not paranoid. Part of 'the talk' is when you share your near-rape experience with your daughter and explain how you got away, because that happens to every woman.

Because shiatstains like you call anyone who brings up a harassment charge a whiny biatch who needs to get laid. I'm sure you don't know what 'obstruction of justice' means, but you and your ilk are walking examples of it.


I first saw an improvised key ring bagh nahk used by an uncle of mine when I was 9 or 10. The guy he hit was blinded in one eye as a result. He kept that eye in a jar of rubbing alcohol for years and showed it to everyone.

We all carried some kind of weapon even as kids and they got used. A padlock with a handkerchief tied around it was my favorite. My own daughter is 7 and I have taught her stuff I withheld from her older brothers because I know if she uses them she will not be held to the same standards as them for discipline

Complaining about being harassed isn't what makes you (or anyone) a whiny biatch it is the idea that being a victim is a burden somehow exclusive to you because of your gender.

Oh, I'm not saying there aren't other, gender-neutral threats out there. But nowhere in that am I seeing that you have any f**king  clue what it's like to live in a world where you run the risk of being sexually harassed every time you step out the door, or when a stranger walks with you it's a fine line between not being a 'frigid biatch' and trying to be frosty enough so if you're raped, people won't claim it was your fault, or what it's like to have to  teac ...


You DON'T have to teach her that. Now she'll end up as cold and bitter as you. You're definitely not close to the "fine line." You're pretty clearly on one side of it.

And how you choose to see men is pathetic. Because not 100% of guilty men are found guilty of their crimes, you claim you HAVE to treat ALL MEN like they are guilty. That's some great logic there. So it's better for tens of millions of innocent men to be seen as guilty than thousands of guilty men to be seen as innocent? So you believe in the OPPOSITE of Blackstone's formulation.

I HOPE HOPE HOPE you are trolling or exaggerating.
 
2013-01-19 03:59:44 PM

cosmiquemuffin: DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other.

Sooooo... Men catcall to each other on the street about their asses and sucking their dicks?


Men catcall to each other talking shiat about each other. Catcalls are steam release. They're annoying as fk. But that's not rape. Like Bunner said, above, it's about the reaction. Witty people get props. People who try to be witty but fail get laughed at as well as continued annoying attention. People who ignore are forgotten within seconds, for the next target. People who make a show of being offended get laughed at and continued annoying attention.

People who show fear get it worse.

It's annoying, it sucks, it's a drain -- but it's not rape.
 
2013-01-19 04:00:58 PM

Bisu: UndeadPoetsSociety: Parmenius: I wonder how many people in this thread would have the courage to make their comments in person.  I wonder whether they actually conduct themselves in this barbaric way, or if it's just the Internet Misogyny Brigade.

I have  never treated women -or anyone else- as depicted in tfa, but I've certainly had to deal with the effects  of their foolishness.  And, with rare exceptions, if someone is behaving with all the civility of a gutter snipe it is a man doing it.  I really dislike having to prove that those jackasses don't represent my gender, and threads like this do not help.

THIS so incredibly much

Yet you don't realize your words are making men on the fence think every woman is as psycho and sexist as the article writer.

You do realize that I'm male, you total dipshiat? You do realize that, don't you? That I'm agreeing with the writer of the article that men who behave in the way she describes are a problem, and that it's very widespread, and that it needs to farking stop? You, saying this, have declared yourself part of the problem. So fark you, you worthless asshole, and have a nice day.
 
2013-01-19 04:01:27 PM

Pincy: Show me the statistics that show that men are anywhere close to women in being sexually harassed and then we'll talk.


Does family court count? Seriously, have you ever seen the rampant sexism in family court? Does having your kids, house, car, paycheck, savings and retirement taken away from you count as real or is that just male butthurt? What about a say in educational, developmental and religious matters of your kids or having free weekends to date?

I've got half custody and I came out better than a lot of men I've known. The odds were greatly against me even getting half custody.

It took someone with two previous cases of CPS taking her older kid away, a court record for threatening to kill her own child, and a very long history of refusing to take care of her mental health just to get half. Meanwhile I've got a spotless record with nothing but a couple speeding tickets and no history of threatening to kill kids or the like. She's put our son in the hospital four times in a year and a half through neglect.

I'm not trolling, I'm being quite sincere, sexism is sexism. It's hard for me to take someone seriously for complaining about being hit on too often when men get their kids and far more taken away just for being men.
 
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