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(A letter to some guy)   "Where's my magic button, the switch I can flip to show men like you what it feels like on the other side of your 'jokes' and 'compliments'?"   (rolereboot.org) divider line 1001
    More: Scary, Liam Payne, female politicians, magic, patriarchy  
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22233 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2013 at 8:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-19 01:39:11 PM

cabbyman: [slowfacts.files.wordpress.com image 600x367]


Metaba Auto Revolver.

GITS references welcome
 
2013-01-19 01:40:47 PM
cryinoutloud:

/the ignore list is the greatest thing on Fark

Here's a handy translation for this type of comment we've seen from so many who love bragging about the size of their *ahem* ignore list (sounds kind of like a male thing, doesn't it... bragging about size...)

I ONLY WANT TO READ THINGS FROM PEOPLE WITH LIKEMINDED VIEWPOINTS!!! HOW DARE YOU DISAGREE WITH ME!

/Remember, kids, anyone who brags about their ignore list is generally someone whose opinion means nothing in the first place... less than the opinion of those people who are ignored by the high and mighty.
 
2013-01-19 01:40:59 PM
Pretty woman walking down the street
Pretty woman the kind I like to meet pretty woman
I don't believe you you're not the truth
No one could look as good as you
Mercy
Pretty woman won't you pardon me
Pretty woman I couldn't help but see pretty woman
That you look lovely as can be
Are you lonely just like me

Pretty woman stop a while
Pretty woman talk a while
Pretty woman give your smile to me
Pretty woman yeah yeah yeah
Pretty woman look my way
Pretty woman say you'll stay with me
'Cause I need you I'll treat you right
Come with me baby be mine tonight

Pretty woman don't walk on by
Pretty woman don't make me cry pretty woman
Don't walk away hey ok
If that's the way it must be ok
I guess I'll go on home it's late
There'll be tomorrow night but wait
What do I see
Is she walking back to me
Yeah she's walking back to me
Oh oh pretty woman
 
2013-01-19 01:41:02 PM
A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.
 
2013-01-19 01:41:29 PM
Cheap behavior is the most unnecessary and unfathomably self defeating method of seeking the company of the opposite sex .

This is not front page stuff.

We, depending on our sexual proclivities, all sort of ping each other when we first meet somebody and we know in about 5 seconds of meeting somebody if we want to f*ck them or they want to f*ck us.

This isn't some amazing and red letter day occurrence that we must trot out and relate to our BFFs or tweet at the first opportune moment any more than regaling them with tales about how, "today, OMG, I had to poo? and then I like TOTALLY had to wipe my butt! Can you bellieve that?" Sadly, a lot of people date only to have stories to tell their friends. And those types of men and women want to come away with different stories. But that primary assessment is how we bump into people, check them out as a possible mate and then go from there. Even if there is someplace else. And it's a good thing, because it's how we usually get here. Any sort of macho or pissy primadonna fandango after the fact is useless, counterproductive and makes you look like you bought your hat from a proctologist .
 
2013-01-19 01:42:11 PM
When I was a teenager, I had the thoughts of "Which gender has it easier/which would I rather be." Ultimately I decided I was more than happy to be a man, and the largest reason for that, was that I got to be left alone without taking any extraordinary pains. Women who are not obviously hideous (And not just "not pretty" I mean "There's a story to it") simply don't get to be left alone unless they go all Silvia Plath.

Article writer doesn't spur much sympathy from me, but for women in general, I pity the ones who just want to be left alone. Because you most likely won't be.

/back to dim room
//alone
/// :)
 
2013-01-19 01:42:20 PM

Tatterdemalian: Reminds me of this comment by Richard Dawkins, regarding Rebecca Watson:

"The man in the elevator didn't physically touch her, didn't attempt to bar her way out of the elevator, didn't even use foul language at her. He spoke some words to her. Just words. She no doubt replied with words. That was that. Words. Only words, and apparently quite polite words at that....Rebecca's feeling that the man's proposition was 'creepy' was her own interpretation of his behavior, presumably not his. She was probably offended to about the same extent as I am offended if a man gets into an elevator with me chewing gum. But he does me no physical damage and I simply grin and bear it until either I or he gets out of the elevator. It would be different if he physically attacked me."

The problem is that some people think the world would be a better place if words were more important than deeds, simply because it's easier to speak words than perform deeds. These people have attained sufficient political power to transform the system into one in which words are, in fact, treated by the law as more important than deeds, to the degree than even deeds like rape and murder can be excused if the magic words "I know that was wrong, and I apologize" are uttered by the criminal, while dissenting opinions are met with the "social justice" of permanent exile, if not "morally justified homicide."


This bears repeating.
 
2013-01-19 01:42:50 PM
Standing on the corner watching all the girls go by
Standing on the corner watching all the girls go by
Brother you don't know a nicer occupation
Matter of fact, neither do I
Than standing on the corner watching all the girls
Watching all the girls, watching all the girls go by
 
2013-01-19 01:43:14 PM

vudukungfu: Pretty woman walking down the street
Pretty woman the kind I like to meet pretty woman
I don't believe you you're not the truth
No one could look as good as you
Mercy
Pretty woman won't you pardon me
Pretty woman I couldn't help but see pretty woman
That you look lovely as can be
Are you lonely just like me

Pretty woman stop a while
Pretty woman talk a while
Pretty woman give your smile to me
Pretty woman yeah yeah yeah
Pretty woman look my way
Pretty woman say you'll stay with me
'Cause I need you I'll treat you right
Come with me baby be mine tonight

Pretty woman don't walk on by
Pretty woman don't make me cry pretty woman
Don't walk away hey ok
If that's the way it must be ok
I guess I'll go on home it's late
There'll be tomorrow night but wait
What do I see
Is she walking back to me
Yeah she's walking back to me
Oh oh pretty woman


Obviously, Roy Orbison was a rapist in waiting, leering at women from behind his pervert patriarchal sunglasses.
 
2013-01-19 01:43:24 PM
The key phrase in that article is "yoga pants." No sympathy from me, women beg for unseemly attention in those things.
 
2013-01-19 01:43:59 PM

TheFark5000: Wow. The amount of sexism and "what about the few men this happens to!" in the first page alone already makes me want to vomit. The world is such a mean place to all you fragile, sad, pathetic men of Fark.


So much THIS. I got through half of the first page, skipped ahead, read a few more comments, and the level of hysteria (from the men, obviously) was just astounding. F*ck this, I don't need so much willful ignorance cluttering up my life.
 
2013-01-19 01:44:36 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Obviously, Roy Orbison was a rapist in waiting, leering at women from behind his pervert patriarchal sunglasses.


Rape Culture.
It's on your radio.
 
2013-01-19 01:44:46 PM

rushthatspeaks: Aww, booh hooh you're attractive and shallow and men notice. Wah. You take farking yoga? Whatever you snotty coont. I can't feel bad for you. Looks afford shallow coonts like you opportunities in life that most HARD WORKING people never get. So fark yourself you shallow biatch. Don't worry I won't EVER acknowledge your beauty.


Why do you assume she's attractive?
And what the fark is wrong with yoga?
 
2013-01-19 01:45:13 PM

untaken_name: A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.


Yeah how dare she want to travel the world without being subject to sexual harassment, what a cunning stunt.
 
2013-01-19 01:45:36 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: Lehk: WhippingBoy: 1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men

no, the suggestion is that women have to deal with that shiat every DAY and men might deal with it a couple times a year.

I would give five years off my life to have to deal with it one single time.


I was 15 years old and volunteering in the old Union Hospital in Lynn, MA. My job was to deliver flowers to patients. I had just boarded the old service elevator at the back of the hospital and was closing the accordion door when one of the kitchen staff, a guy in his mid 20's, blocked the door, boarded too, and took over the controls, which were the old fashioned brass lever to go between floor. He stopped the elevator midway up between floors, grabbed me, shoved his cigarette tasting stinky tongue in my mouth and roughed me up a bit. I struggled but he was not a all guy, and nobody heard my yells. When he was done groping me he just brought the elevator up and didn't say a word to me. I was bruised and grossed out the rest of the day. Heck, for the rest of the year. I quit that volunteer job that week.

I'll happily trade your five years for the memory of that guy's slimy tongue and unpleasant hands.
 
2013-01-19 01:45:56 PM

Polyhazard: Felgraf: That's just my take on the situation, my sort of stream-of-conscious-rambly-attempt to explain. I have probably done a poor job.

No, actually, I think your comment here is one of the more insightful in the thread. And it does mirror the author's post in an interesting way: dude doesn't understand why his boorish comment is such a big deal, because he doesn't understand that it was the 3rd time gal has heard it tonight, and the kind of... attrition, for lack of a better word, that kind of thing can do to. No single interaction is an island in culture.

Guess I'd feel more optimistic if more comments here were like this one: evaluating the situation, rather than merely reacting to it, within it. The "battle of the sexes" is a goddamn sham.


Yay! I will admit that helps that I'm currently in the lab (hoooraaay, being a grad student), so I'm forced to step away from my posts from time to time to deal with fun chemicals (Benzyl Mercaptan can die in a fire) and analyze what I'm thinking about/why I'm thinking what I'm thinking. It makes it *harder* for me to react viscearly/emotionally. I can sometimes be a petty jerk *without* and toss introspection out the window if I'm flying off the handle or frustrated and not forcing myself to stop and think.

If it helps, I DO think that there's plenty cause to be optimistic. I really do think we are, as a society and culture, getting better in a lot of respects. Sure, there are some scary things going on (the death throes of a reactionary movement deciding to bring up birth control and sexism and 'Rape-rape' and why-the-fark-are-we-talking-about-this-it-is-2012-didn't-we-settle-thi s-30-farking-years-ago and causing some ammount of backsliding is frustrating as fark), but I think that's what it is: a death throes. I do think we're starting to understand each other more: In 50 years, we've gone from segregation to a minority president. We've gone from gays getting electroshock and being committed to gay marriage *being legal* in some states.

We've got a long way to go, on so many things (gender equality included, and in some spots, especially), and we have to be careful we don't backslide, but we're getting there. Maybe we won't ever reach it: maybe we're like a line approaching an asymptote, but the importance is we keep trying to make progress.

/Alright I admit I'm also just an eternal optimist about most things.
 
2013-01-19 01:46:12 PM

Polyhazard: Also, thanks to some helpful Farkers in the thread for helping me understand that yoga pants are now included in the set of things I can't wear unless I want to be Asking For It.
.


You're welcome.

If you show off and draw attention to your ass like that, expect your ass to get noticed, and possibly commented upon.

Stupid.
 
2013-01-19 01:46:16 PM

Bored Horde: DerAppie: lordjupiter: The women were asked to rate the degree to which they felt sexually harassed.

And this is where everything breaks down.


Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature
Alan S. Miller Ph.D., Satoshi Kanazawa Ph.D.

Men sexually harass women because they are not sexist

An unfortunate consequence of the ever-growing number of women joining the labor force and working side by side with men is the increasing number of sexual harassment cases. Why must sexual harassment be a necessary consequence of the sexual integration of the workplace?

Psychologist Kingsley R. Browne identifies two types of sexual harassment cases: the quid pro quo ("You must sleep with me if you want to keep your job or be promoted") and the "hostile environment" (the workplace is deemed too sexualized for workers to feel safe and comfortable). While feminists and social scientists tend to explain sexual harassment in terms of "patriarchy" and other ideologies, Browne locates the ultimate cause of both types of sexual harassment in sex differences in mating strategies.

Studies demonstrate unequivocally that men are far more interested in short-term casual sex than women. In one now-classic study, 75 percent of undergraduate men approached by an attractive female stranger agreed to have sex with her; none of the women approached by an attractive male stranger did. Many men who would not date the stranger nonetheless agreed to have sex with her.

The quid pro quo types of harassment are manifestations of men's greater desire for short-term casual sex and their willingness to use any available means to achieve that goal. Feminists often claim that sexual harassment is "not about sex but about power;" Browne contends it is both-men using power to get sex. "To say that it is only about power makes no more sense than saying that bank robbery is only about guns, not about money."

Sexual harassment cases of the hostile-environment variety result ...


I agree that the conclusions of that "study" are bullshiat, as I said, but how is a culture where people fear men a "rape culture", which would theoretically be a culture that condones rape? Isn't that more of a "fear of rape" culture?

The only "rape culture" I see in America these days is from the religious right and the GOP.

Why is a man approaching someone for sex "implicitly unsafe", while for a woman it is not? Isn't that an assumption that all men are rapists, similar to the assumption that all women are objects to be hit on or taken?
 
2013-01-19 01:47:02 PM

bunner: We, depending on our sexual proclivities, all sort of ping each other when we first meet somebody and we know in about 5 seconds of meeting somebody if we want to f*ck them or they want to f*ck us.


Hmm, don't know about the rest of you but I've managed to evolve above these base animal instincts. I'm not saying I don't find the opposite sex attractive, just saying that the first thing going through my mind isn't whether I'd have sex with them or not.
 
2013-01-19 01:47:21 PM

Dansker: Why do you assume she's attractive?
And what the fark is wrong with yoga?



Can I Have Fat Pride Without Throwing Thin Women Under The Bus?
 
2013-01-19 01:47:45 PM

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl:

I was 15 years old and volunteering in the old Union Hospital in Lynn, MA.


Small world. I was born there.
 
2013-01-19 01:48:38 PM

Dansker: rushthatspeaks: Aww, booh hooh you're attractive and shallow and men notice. Wah. You take farking yoga? Whatever you snotty coont. I can't feel bad for you. Looks afford shallow coonts like you opportunities in life that most HARD WORKING people never get. So fark yourself you shallow biatch. Don't worry I won't EVER acknowledge your beauty.

Why do you assume she's attractive?
And what the fark is wrong with yoga?


He's probably disturbed and should talk to someone about it. Yeah that yoga, how dare you engage in stretching and moderate exercise.

Dankser: Please keep not acknowledging women's beauty, and keep your feelings between yourself and your therapist.
 
2013-01-19 01:49:14 PM
First, I had this discussion with my sister in law, who is 20 and pretty good looking.

We were walking down the street and guys were looking at her openly and she was talking about what perverts guys are.  Even though she has a different fark buddy every two weeks.

She was wearing tiny shorts, an almost non existent top, and high heels.  Hell, I was trying not to look.  I told her that if she didnt have the display case open, no one would be browsing.  Cause if you walk around half naked people are going to look.

And Yoga pants?  Come on ladies, first off they are to do yoga in,  and if you are going to walk around in yoga pants two sizes two small, so they hold in your bacon and shape it, and put the full camel toe on display.  Do not get angry if men and women see it and look at you.  i am tired of seeing cootch in yoga pants in the grocery store.  What happened to being demure?

I saw a girl with yoga pants and spanks on.

only about 1 in ten people actually wear yoga pants in their correct size.
 
2013-01-19 01:49:57 PM

THE GREAT NAME:
I would advise any atheist to stay away from churches and mosques. But if that atheist rejects my advice, he's still entitled to sit there and have a drink without being preeched to in a pious manner.


I want to visit your mosque. Is it an open bar, or BYOB?
 
2013-01-19 01:50:46 PM

GORDON: The key phrase in that article is "yoga pants." No sympathy from me, women beg for unseemly attention in those things.


Meh.

1.cdn.tapcdn.com

I already know what women look like without the pants.

My big sexual fantasy now is to meet somebody I actually like hanging out with.

But that's the free pass. If you want to flaunt it, you get to do so and demand that people pretend they don't notice. And, that's sort of fine, really. But ladies? If you're gonna dress like that I completely agree that you are still perfectly allowed to reject any advances made. But, like, wait until you're asked. The guys braying bullsh*t wouldn't know what to do if you DID take them off. And if they start playing grabass, feel free to break their arms. But the sneer you've been practicing to proffer the guys that just quietly notice says more about you than those pants.
 
2013-01-19 01:50:56 PM

Bored Horde: untaken_name: A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.

Yeah how dare she want to travel the world without being subject to sexual harassment, what a cunning stunt.


One difference between men and women is that men are constantly subjected to things we don't like also, but we don't feel the need to biatch about them to the world and try to make everyone on the planet behave in a way that makes us individually comfortable. For example, I'm constantly subjected to ridiculous nonsense posts like yours, but you don't see me telling you to shut the fark up and never post again, do you?
 
2013-01-19 01:51:40 PM

Pincy: lordjupiter: Why is it OK for you to extrapolate from specific experiences of individuals to general statements about groups, but it's not OK for men to do it?

Show me the statistics that show that men are anywhere close to women in being sexually harassed and then we'll talk.


I just realized that you haven't answered my question (or maybe I missed it). Is getting groped on a daily basis something most women typically have to deal with?
 
2013-01-19 01:52:12 PM

One Bad Apple: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl:

I was 15 years old and volunteering in the old Union Hospital in Lynn, MA.


Small world. I was born there.


Cool. My mom worked there for a long time.
 
2013-01-19 01:53:04 PM

Fukuzawa: When I was a teenager, I had the thoughts of "Which gender has it easier/which would I rather be." Ultimately I decided I was more than happy to be a man, and the largest reason for that, was that I got to be left alone without taking any extraordinary pains. Women who are not obviously hideous (And not just "not pretty" I mean "There's a story to it") simply don't get to be left alone unless they go all Silvia Plath.

Article writer doesn't spur much sympathy from me, but for women in general, I pity the ones who just want to be left alone. Because you most likely won't be.


If you want to be left alone, you can--just don't leave your home. We have this thing called society. It has nice people and not so nice people, and if you choose to go out into it, you get both. You have the right to go through your life and not be harassed, but you don't have the right to silence people who are simply not nice.

Stupid, crude bro-talk is not in the same league as harassment. One is stupid and crude and the other is credibly threatening. There's a big difference.
 
2013-01-19 01:53:28 PM

THE GREAT NAME: tirob:


Zarquon's Flat Tire: tirob:


omeganuepsilon: tirob: But if that woman rejects my advice, she's still entitled to sit there and have a drink without being come on to in a gross manner.

Not so much. Free speech 101 really. Anyone can say anything they want as long as it's not a believable threat or disruptive to the public at large.


Look, I didn't write the Pennsylvania disorderly conduct statute. It exists, however. And I suspect that parts of it were written with this sort of behavior in mind. For the purposes of this discussion, here are the relevant sections:

A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:

(2) makes unreasonable noise;
(3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture;
or
(4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.

Link

At least some of the conduct described in the article would fall under the provisions of this statute. YMMV.
 
2013-01-19 01:53:56 PM

WhippingBoy: Pincy: lordjupiter: Why is it OK for you to extrapolate from specific experiences of individuals to general statements about groups, but it's not OK for men to do it?

Show me the statistics that show that men are anywhere close to women in being sexually harassed and then we'll talk.

I just realized that you haven't answered my question (or maybe I missed it). Is getting groped on a daily basis something most women typically have to deal with?


Answer: They deal with it much more than men and I have a feeling you know that.
 
2013-01-19 01:54:46 PM

Bored Horde: You're only discussing half of the study you're citing. Half of it was opposite-sex approaches - women approaching men and men approaching women. What you're not discussing is when the attractive woman approached women or the man approached men. In all cases, people felt uncomfortable being approached by the man, because of the implicit unsafety of a man approaching you for sex. Both men and women were more receptive to being approached by a random woman for sex, because they felt safer. Overt sexual attention from a man carries an implicit threat that overt sexual attention from a woman doesn't convey. That right there - that's rape culture.


A young heterosexual man feeling uncomfortable about being hit upon by a homosexual man is not feeling uncomfortable because he thinks the gay guy is going to rape him..... it's because he's not attracted to the man. He'd feel the same way if an unattractive grandmother hit on him too.
 
2013-01-19 01:54:52 PM

WhippingBoy: While I sympathize somewhat, I have a couple of problems with articles like this:

1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men
2. There's a underlying belief that "men" (in general) condone these types of actions
3. The "outrage" seems to be for the express purpose of generating blog hits

There's jerks in life; we encounter them every day. To attribute an given individual's jerky behaviour to any conveniently defined "group" is intellectually dishonest. If I were to put blinders on and conveniently ignore those instances where persons of my gender were jerks to me (and instead focused only on those instances where person of the opposite gender were jerks to me), I could become a social justice crusader.


Yup.
But women REFUSE to see it that, especially women like the author.

People are jerks, men and women, for her to imply that all men are rapists just waiting to pull every...single.
..woman on the face of the Earth into an alley and sodomize them is pure bull shiat.
 
2013-01-19 01:56:06 PM

untaken_name: A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.


She didn't address it to the entire world. Why do you feel targeted?
 
2013-01-19 01:56:51 PM
At some point in their lives, between girlhood and womanhood, the ladies have a light bulb go on over their heads and they say "Holy sh*t, I've got the GOODS here! I mean, the GOODS!" And that's a wonderful thing. How they react to and grow into that is largely a matter of how they were raised. Pretty women know they're pretty. Smile at them. Don't be a schmuck.
 
2013-01-19 01:57:16 PM
Wow. I don't think I've read the comments to a feminist article on Fark before. Most of you people have serious problems. I hope you are either too young to know better, or so old that you're on the verge of dying of old people diseases. Y'all have very bad attitudes about women, and you should feel bad. I hope my daughter, mother, and female friends never have to spend any time around you, and I hope your female acquaintances haven't suffered too much from your presence. Jesus.
 
2013-01-19 01:57:22 PM

untaken_name: Bored Horde: untaken_name: A woman who makes the entire world responsible for her comfort? Shocking.

Yeah how dare she want to travel the world without being subject to sexual harassment, what a cunning stunt.

One difference between men and women is that men are constantly subjected to things we don't like also, but we don't feel the need to biatch about them to the world and try to make everyone on the planet behave in a way that makes us individually comfortable. For example, I'm constantly subjected to ridiculous nonsense posts like yours, but you don't see me telling you to shut the fark up and never post again, do you?


Please tell us more about the long list of injustices that men must suffer that women don't also suffer. Oh god, being paid more. Damn. Oh bother, being taken more seriously. Jesus christ, restating someone else's idea and being given credit for it.

Being a man is AWESOME. Being a white man is REALLY AWESOME. If you don't acknowledge all the great things that come by default, you're an ASSHOLE. You know that guy who was born on third and talks like he hit a triple? Don't be that guy. Nobody likes that guy.
 
2013-01-19 01:57:26 PM
Hahaha, oh wow.  What a bunch of defensive, miserable farks in here.  "HOW DARE YOU CLAIM SOME MEN ARE ASSHOLES!1!  IT MUST BE YOUR FAULT!!11  WOMEN BIATCH TOO MUCH!11!"  I'm cracking up over here.
 
2013-01-19 01:57:29 PM
Dansker
And what the fark is wrong with yoga?


It's probably too dangerous in case you're a crazy cat lady.

www.clusterfake.net

Otherwise, everybody seems to be enjoying it:
www.clusterfake.net
 
2013-01-19 01:57:43 PM

Pincy: stiletto_the_wise: Good comment. If you're leaving your house every day thinking that today might be your rape day, well, you need to go see a therapist. That's paranoia. If you can't tell the difference between various levels of unsolicited attention you might get from men, to the point where you believe Casual "Hi" == "You look nice" == Crude comment about your butt == Creepy guy leering at you == Unwelcome groping == OMFG RAPE ... there's psychiatric help available for you, too.

I'm sorry that when you walk down the street looking awesome (a look you spent lots of time achieving), you might attract some unwanted attention. 90% of it will just be in the guys' minds and never spoken out loud. Some of the guys will whisper to their bros "how hot that one is" and, yes, a small few will crudely make their feelings known out loud. As a male, I apologize that those guys are there, but they're there, what can I say? You know, when you walk outside your house, you sometimes encounter stuff that makes you uncomfortable. Your overly dramatic blog post is not going to change this.

If I would you I would write an advice book for women because I'm sure it would sell millions.


Is that your advice?
 
2013-01-19 01:59:05 PM
Bored Horde:Groping a woman carries the implicit threat of rape in a way that a woman groping a man doesn't. However uncomfortable you felt being groped, remember that women are taught that it's their fault they got groped, that all men are groping raping monsters and it's the woman's fault if they let them get close.

For you, it was the simple act of violation of your body. For women, it's that AND a reminder that their body's positive assets belong to society.

Groping a man implies you know you can get away with sexual assault, an even accuse your victim of sexual assault and know that everyone will jump to your defense. For women, being groped reminds them that they get through life on their attractiveness and would starve to death if they were uglier.
 
2013-01-19 01:59:35 PM

vudukungfu: Pretty woman walking down the street
Pretty woman the kind I like to meet pretty woman
I don't believe you you're not the truth
No one could look as good as you
Mercy
Pretty woman won't you pardon me
Pretty woman I couldn't help but see pretty woman
That you look lovely as can be
Are you lonely just like me

Pretty woman stop a while
Pretty woman talk a while
Pretty woman give your smile to me
Pretty woman yeah yeah yeah
Pretty woman look my way
Pretty woman say you'll stay with me
'Cause I need you I'll treat you right
Come with me baby be mine tonight

Pretty woman don't walk on by
Pretty woman don't make me cry pretty woman
Don't walk away hey ok
If that's the way it must be ok
I guess I'll go on home it's late
There'll be tomorrow night but wait
What do I see
Is she walking back to me
Yeah she's walking back to me
Oh oh pretty woman


Pincy thinks this song is exactly the same as rape.
 
2013-01-19 01:59:44 PM

douchebag/hater: WhippingBoy: While I sympathize somewhat, I have a couple of problems with articles like this:

1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men
2. There's a underlying belief that "men" (in general) condone these types of actions
3. The "outrage" seems to be for the express purpose of generating blog hits

There's jerks in life; we encounter them every day. To attribute an given individual's jerky behaviour to any conveniently defined "group" is intellectually dishonest. If I were to put blinders on and conveniently ignore those instances where persons of my gender were jerks to me (and instead focused only on those instances where person of the opposite gender were jerks to me), I could become a social justice crusader.

Yup.
But women REFUSE to see it that, especially women like the author.

People are jerks, men and women, for her to imply that all men are rapists just waiting to pull every...single.
..woman on the face of the Earth into an alley and sodomize them is pure bull shiat.


Geez, I keep on reading this objection, that she is painting all men as rapists. Where in TFA does she do that?
 
2013-01-19 02:00:08 PM

Pincy: WhippingBoy: Pincy: lordjupiter: Why is it OK for you to extrapolate from specific experiences of individuals to general statements about groups, but it's not OK for men to do it?

Show me the statistics that show that men are anywhere close to women in being sexually harassed and then we'll talk.

I just realized that you haven't answered my question (or maybe I missed it). Is getting groped on a daily basis something most women typically have to deal with?

Answer: They deal with it much more than men and I have a feeling you know that.


Of course they do. I'm just trying to get a sense for how prevalent it is. I've read some posts that give the impression that the second any woman leaves the house she's instantly surrounded by throngs of groping dude-bros.

So again, is getting groped something most women have to deal with on a daily basis?
 
2013-01-19 02:00:10 PM

Pincy: Men never think that there is a possibility of being raped by a woman. For women, it is a possibility. Doesn't mean it is going to happen, but it is a possibility. Depending on the circumstances, that possibility may be very small or much greater. The point is that men don't have to live with that constant fear and thus how we view "attention" from women is different from how women view "attention" from men.

The sooner we men can admit that the better.


For men, avoiding rape means staying out of prison where Big Bubba ogles your junk and keeps saying how he'd like to crack open yer butt. For women, the chances are much higher that Big Bubba could be anywhere -- standing behind them in the checkout line at Target, at the bus stop, in the library, stalking them through the parking lot, etc. He might be ugly or good-looking, short or tall, scrawny or buff.

When somebody treats you like prey, that threatening behavior kicks off the flight or fight response. It doesn't have to be a genuine threat. It just needs to be perceived by the victim as a threat. Women, unfortunately, run into more situations in which they have to "check the database" to evaluate threats to their person and it's usually in situations that men wouldn't imagine might contain any threat. To treat every encounter as a "100% safe until proven wrong" situation would be foolish -- and dangerous. Sadly, because of the bad apples out there, women have to stay in some level of self-preservation mode all the time. A lot of men can't imagine living in that mode, but for women, it's the norm.
 
2013-01-19 02:00:52 PM

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: Mambo Bananapatch: Lehk: WhippingBoy: 1. There's a subtle suggestion that this type of harassment and/or unwanted attention NEVER happens to men

no, the suggestion is that women have to deal with that shiat every DAY and men might deal with it a couple times a year.

I would give five years off my life to have to deal with it one single time.

I was 15 years old and volunteering in the old Union Hospital in Lynn, MA. My job was to deliver flowers to patients. I had just boarded the old service elevator at the back of the hospital and was closing the accordion door when one of the kitchen staff, a guy in his mid 20's, blocked the door, boarded too, and took over the controls, which were the old fashioned brass lever to go between floor. He stopped the elevator midway up between floors, grabbed me, shoved his cigarette tasting stinky tongue in my mouth and roughed me up a bit. I struggled but he was not a all guy, and nobody heard my yells. When he was done groping me he just brought the elevator up and didn't say a word to me. I was bruised and grossed out the rest of the day. Heck, for the rest of the year. I quit that volunteer job that week.

I'll happily trade your five years for the memory of that guy's slimy tongue and unpleasant hands.


Most 15 year old boys would be very happy to be grouped by a 20-something waitress or nurse in a hospital elevator. As a result I think it's hard for some men to understand why a woman wouldn't.
 
2013-01-19 02:01:29 PM

murderguy: Wow. I don't think I've read the comments to a feminist article on Fark before. Most of you people have serious problems. I hope you are either too young to know better, or so old that you're on the verge of dying of old people diseases. Y'all have very bad attitudes about women, and you should feel bad. I hope my daughter, mother, and female friends never have to spend any time around you, and I hope your female acquaintances haven't suffered too much from your presence. Jesus.


Most of my female friends are now anti-feminists. Most of them have become utterly disgusted with how the mainstream feminist movment conducts itself in this country. Just look at Erin Pizzey; founder of the first domestic violence shelters for women in the 1970s, now an editior on a Men's Rights website.
 
2013-01-19 02:02:10 PM
I can say I've never acted rudely in a sexual way to women/a woman in public but I've had it done to me, once while I was riding my bike out in CA and I can tell you first hand how it felt to have 4 young women in a pickup who slowed down as they drove by me hooting and 'Yeah"ing at me while I was out cycling and minding my own business, do you wanna know how it felt? It felt pretty f*kking awesome! I gotta tell ya!

But conversely, I didn't at any moment think there was any chance they were going to sexually assault me and I was just brought up to never make a woman feel uncomfortable.
 
2013-01-19 02:02:22 PM

WordyGrrl:


. Sadly, because of the bad apples out there, women have to stay in some level of self-preservation mode all the time. A lot of men can't imagine living in that mode, but for women, it's the norm.



I resent your implications.
 
2013-01-19 02:02:31 PM

bunner: GORDON: The key phrase in that article is "yoga pants." No sympathy from me, women beg for unseemly attention in those things.

Meh.

[1.cdn.tapcdn.com image 500x666]

I already know what women look like without the pants.

My big sexual fantasy now is to meet somebody I actually like hanging out with.

But that's the free pass. If you want to flaunt it, you get to do so and demand that people pretend they don't notice. And, that's sort of fine, really. But ladies? If you're gonna dress like that I completely agree that you are still perfectly allowed to reject any advances made. But, like, wait until you're asked. The guys braying bullsh*t wouldn't know what to do if you DID take them off. And if they start playing grabass, feel free to break their arms. But the sneer you've been practicing to proffer the guys that just quietly notice says more about you than those pants.


There's a difference between noticing and harassing. As a man, I will admit that I notice attractive women. Do I go up to them unsolicited and tell them I think they are attractive? No. Do I make catcalls? No. Do I try to get closer to them to get a good look? No. Do I do anything that would make them feel like I was in any way threatening to them? I hope not.

I guess I'm able to control myself better than a lot of people?
 
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