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(A letter to some guy)   "Where's my magic button, the switch I can flip to show men like you what it feels like on the other side of your 'jokes' and 'compliments'?"   (rolereboot.org) divider line 1001
    More: Scary, Liam Payne, female politicians, magic, patriarchy  
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22239 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2013 at 8:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-19 11:19:58 AM

WhippingBoy: quickdraw: Where in the article does it say "All men are rapists?" I'll tell you. No where. The article describes her experiences of being harrassed.  Its not like shes advocating castration. You can put your lance down. The male population doesnt need your white-knighting.

Oh ffs, are you seriously saying that the "all men are potential rapists" undertone is absent from the article?


quickdraw is a socialist. She sees what she wants to see.
 
2013-01-19 11:20:13 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."


You haven't been paying attention.

Face to face confrontation is not socially acceptable these days. All confrontation must occur with a computing device in between the opposing parties.

It's a law or something.
 
2013-01-19 11:20:33 AM
Y'all are talking about the what.. but not the why. So many commenters, thinking they have insight or answers. You cannot run around putting out fires when you haven't figured out how to control the flame. It's truly the definition of futility.

Maybe I'm being WAY TOO serious for fark (of course i am), but speaking as a neglected child from a joke of a household, I came VERY close to becoming 'that guy'.

As I was caring for our flock of chickens in between posting to this oh-so-philisophical thread, it dawned on me as I watched one of our little polish caps, who gets picked on all the time, start pecking the shiat out of one of the younger, newer chickens:

THE PECKED BECOME THE PECKERS


/if you are a cynic like me, get some chickens. They really put it all in an intellectual perspective.
//PSA
 
2013-01-19 11:20:36 AM

Red Shirt Blues: Man.......after putting up with that redhead screaming and biatching for two hours in Zero Dark Thirty last night, reading that crappy blog, and quickdraw's screeds, I'm going to  down a couple of mimosas and go back to bed. Wake me up for the Flyers game though.


You're a Philly fan? I thought Philly Fan was the king (and queen) of not giving a fk, dishing out the abuse and taking it, too (reads your profile) ah, Florida, nevermind. You got four hours before the game, man, it's too nice outside to sleep, if you ain't got work to do. Enjoy that sun.
 
2013-01-19 11:20:57 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu:
I see what you're saying, and agree with it. Again, leads back to the ho doth protest too much. She's not really, she's bragging. See also: hos who make a point of pointing out their BMI when it's on the low end.


I'm guessing you don't have any female friends.
 
2013-01-19 11:21:35 AM

TiiiMMMaHHH: THE PECKED BECOME THE PECKERS


my ePecker is bigger
 
2013-01-19 11:21:35 AM

quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: quickdraw: WhippingBoy: I'm defending "men" in general.

Why?

Why? I dunno... because there just might be some men out there who are decent human beings?

Nowhere in that article does it imply there are no good men. FFS just because a women says lots of men act like assholes doesnt mean all men do. If I said the Olive Garden sucks would you feel the need to defend all Italian restaurants?

Blacks have to. Why not generic racial-not-specific men?

Blacks have to what? Eat at Olive Garden? Really not sure what youre getting at here...

"just because a non-black says lots of blacks act like assholes doesn't mean all blacks do. if I said blacks suck would you feel the need to defend all blacks?" -- that's where I was going with it. and the reason why i did so is because i'd rather blacks stood up against it, than turned turtle and pretended 'well what someone says about all blacks doesn't pertain to me because i'm an individual' when seeing shiat like that in a public setting. it doens't come across as being an individual, it comes across as agreement, like 'see, even other blacks think blacks are assholes'.

in this case, if men don't stand up for themselves when there is the appearance of painting all men with the 'rapist' brush, then it doesn't come across as dudes being individuals, it comes across as agreement. I'm still probably not saying this right. I apologize. Working two projects this morning without breakfast. i need a BLT but don't want to head to the store.

Where in the article does it say "All men are rapists?" I'll tell you. No where. The article describes her experiences of being harrassed.  Its not like shes advocating castration. You can put your lance down. The male population doesnt need your white-knighting.


Aiight. Hat tip to ya, ma'am.
 
2013-01-19 11:21:47 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."

Because it is dangerous to do so.

Uh-huh. Every guy in the world is just waiting to beat the shiat out of women. I guess women are just that weak. No wonder they seek out violent, beefy men.


Seriously? Cant you do better than that? Its like watching somebody box an imaginary opponent.

Ok fine Ill indulge you. This is how it works. Every person we come across has the potential to be friend or foe. When out in a setting where we could be physically vulnerable (no matter who you are) we have to size up people we meet. If a drunk obnoxious idiot is saying rude things to you its generally not wise to call them on it or insult them.

If the person may not be drunk but is larger than you, or is driving a vehicle, or holding something that looks like they might use it as a weapon then you have to think very carefully before you respond to them.

If they are a boss or coworker you have to consider whether it is worth losing your job over.

What is it about the concept of "power deferential" that you dont get?
 
2013-01-19 11:22:53 AM

bunner: Ever notice that the worst thing you can call a man is a woman, and the worst thing you can cal a woman is "just like your mother"?


Did they change the Fark filter for the C-bomb again ?
 
2013-01-19 11:25:13 AM

bunner: There's a lot of jerks. Not all of them have testicle.


Indeed. Not all jerks are, in fact, Lance Armstrong.

/sorry
 
2013-01-19 11:25:14 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: THE GREAT NAME: I notice from your profile that you are a liberal. As such, you think

Thanks for telling all of us what we think, Republican.


Nice try. But NAME is not from USA and is an atheist.
 
2013-01-19 11:25:57 AM

DerAppie: Meh, try and live as a man for some time. You'll find out that a lot of men make similar comments and crude jokes to each other. It is not always because men are sexist that they do this, it is often because they have an in-group in which that sort of behaviour towards each other is normal and they simply extend that behaviour to others.

When men do it to other men they get to hear that they should just suck it up. If they do it to a woman they get complaints about sexism. Just remember this womenfolk: you do not want to be treated the way men treat each other. That would be how you get treated now and then some.

 
2013-01-19 11:26:13 AM
As long as those same "creeper" guys are the ones more likely to get rewarded with sex, it is going to be harder for "nice guys" to empathize with your problem.

All men are rapists, all women are whores, let's all be robots, the robolution comes!
 
2013-01-19 11:27:07 AM
non-ironic use of "patriarchy" = whining entitled biatch who has no idea how much progress has been made.

i don't know how many times i've read this exact same article.

you're sad that what you wear effects how people treat you? oh boo farking hoo. that's true for everyone, it's just that young women are coddled and their victimhood complex is respected and encouraged as a way to further demean them.

everytime i hear some bullshiat "switch the pronouns" argument by someone purporting to be in the service of feminism, I have the very real and inescapable feeling that they have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to "equality" among the "genders".

mandatory draft of all fighting age females at the exclusion of males, the inequity and oppression of history must be reversed!! onward patriot! forward soviet!
 
2013-01-19 11:28:03 AM

THE GREAT NAME: Nice try. But NAME is not from USA and is an atheist.


And talks about himself in the third person, apparently. As much as I'd like it to be otherwise, the Jersey shore is, in actuality, part of the USA.
 
2013-01-19 11:28:24 AM

gilgigamesh: "Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits."

Or specifically, as the author described, "middle aged".

Its funny, she lacks the perspective to realize that she falls right into the same role of objectification she seems to think all men are guilty of.


When the author specified "middle aged," I assumed she was making a point that some of these men are old enough to know better.

I guess our dual interpretations say a lot: the men of Fark read it and think it's all about them. Is it about you, fellas? Do you behave like this? Then WTF are you wetting your pants about?
 
2013-01-19 11:28:52 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: bunner: There's a lot of jerks. Not all of them have testicle.

Indeed. Not all jerks are, in fact, Lance Armstrong.

/sorry


I bet some of them can type, though *sigh*
 
2013-01-19 11:29:13 AM

quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."

Because it is dangerous to do so.

Uh-huh. Every guy in the world is just waiting to beat the shiat out of women. I guess women are just that weak. No wonder they seek out violent, beefy men.

Seriously? Cant you do better than that? Its like watching somebody box an imaginary opponent.

Ok fine Ill indulge you. This is how it works. Every person we come across has the potential to be friend or foe. When out in a setting where we could be physically vulnerable (no matter who you are) we have to size up people we meet. If a drunk obnoxious idiot is saying rude things to you its generally not wise to call them on it or insult them.

If the person may not be drunk but is larger than you, or is driving a vehicle, or holding something that looks like they might use it as a weapon then you have to think very carefully before you respond to them.

If they are a boss or coworker you have to consider whether it is worth losing your job over.

What is it about the concept of "power deferential" that you dont get?


Then any reaction she has, including the one she took -- walking down the street -- is just as much of a threat. It's still a rebuke.

I'm 6' tall and 130 pounds. I have no chest. I *will* get my ass kicked in a fight. Yet I've never gotten into one in all of my years, and have still managed to stand up for myself when people say rude things to me. Sometimes it's clear that the goal is violence, so I just walk away -- but not everyone who is rude is going to be violent as well.

That's a cop-out.
 
2013-01-19 11:30:04 AM
Sounds like she's not tough enough to live in the Big City.

In a smaller city men don't pull that shiat (very often). Maybe frat-bro types. But who hangs out with dude-bros?
 
2013-01-19 11:30:42 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: If women want to really flip it, they have to aim for the shiat that affects men as men, the shiat that personally offends men, the shiat that society pushes to make men feel lesser, weaker, less in control, less sure about themselves. So, what are those things?

Height's an easy one, because it's continually overlooked (just like men's issues can be overlooked). Again, unlike all the very superficial shiat named for women, height is something a man cannot control. He doesn't have to face catcalls from construction crews; his obstacle course is different, but it can still grind down on the soul.

Those who fail become Napoleonic (just like women who fail become Bitter) as a defense mechanism. You know what I mean?


Alright now we are discussing the article. Thank you. Yes there are many ways in which the "flip it" strategy fails. But its just one of many strategies being tried to address a global issue. FWIW shes saying it worked for her to help her get it in her own head when there is gender discrimination at work.

Gender discrimination is something we are raised with - all of us - so its very hard to break.

When I was an undergrad studying architecture my very militant lesbian child development teacher asked me if I was going into architecture because thats what my father does.  I said no. he's an economist. and then asked her if she went into child dev because thats what her father does.

I have used the "flip it" technique on myself (although that was before it had a fancy name and a website) to help me figure out whether I need to modify my own behavior. So its not a perfect tool but its one of several that can be helpful in spotting gender discrimination.
 
2013-01-19 11:31:11 AM

lordjupiter: The women were asked to rate the degree to which they felt sexually harassed.


And this is where everything breaks down.


Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature
Alan S. Miller Ph.D., Satoshi Kanazawa Ph.D.

Men sexually harass women because they are not sexist

An unfortunate consequence of the ever-growing number of women joining the labor force and working side by side with men is the increasing number of sexual harassment cases. Why must sexual harassment be a necessary consequence of the sexual integration of the workplace?

Psychologist Kingsley R. Browne identifies two types of sexual harassment cases: the quid pro quo ("You must sleep with me if you want to keep your job or be promoted") and the "hostile environment" (the workplace is deemed too sexualized for workers to feel safe and comfortable). While feminists and social scientists tend to explain sexual harassment in terms of "patriarchy" and other ideologies, Browne locates the ultimate cause of both types of sexual harassment in sex differences in mating strategies.

Studies demonstrate unequivocally that men are far more interested in short-term casual sex than women. In one now-classic study, 75 percent of undergraduate men approached by an attractive female stranger agreed to have sex with her; none of the women approached by an attractive male stranger did. Many men who would not date the stranger nonetheless agreed to have sex with her.

The quid pro quo types of harassment are manifestations of men's greater desire for short-term casual sex and their willingness to use any available means to achieve that goal. Feminists often claim that sexual harassment is "not about sex but about power;" Browne contends it is both-men using power to get sex. "To say that it is only about power makes no more sense than saying that bank robbery is only about guns, not about money."

Sexual harassment cases of the hostile-environment variety result from sex differences in what men and women perceive as "overly sexual" or "hostile" behavior. Many women legitimately complain that they have been subjected to abusive, intimidating, and degrading treatment by their male coworkers. Browne points out that long before women entered the labor force, men subjected each other to such abusive, intimidating, and degrading treatment.

Abuse, intimidation, and degradation are all part of men's repertoire of tactics employed in competitive situations. In other words, men are not treating women differently from men-the definition of discrimination, under which sexual harassment legally falls-but the opposite: Men harass women precisely because they are not discriminating between men and women.

 
2013-01-19 11:31:35 AM

Smock Pot: I don't know why women keep trying to tell men what it's like, because men are never going to get it. Ever. No matter what a woman says about this, no matter how many analogies she makes, no matter how she says it, men will respond with... pretty much everything in this thread. They will continue to act like untrained dogs around women they want to fark and shiat all over women they deem too old or too ugly to fark.


Generalization much? You're doing the same thing the article writer does. Do you see her mention the nice respectful guys she knows? No, but I can assure you, they DO EXIST. For every jackass out there that acts like that, there are many more respectfully going about their lives.
 
2013-01-19 11:32:50 AM
What a twat, she needs a good dicking to set her straight.


Oh and nobody mentions Joe Bidens hair because he obviously had bad hair transplants, that alone should have killed Obama's win. If he can't be honest with him about how stupid it looks then you know he's lying to us!!! "You...you know that those little surgical corn rows your got look ridiculous, right?"
 
2013-01-19 11:33:15 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: quickdraw: Lenny_da_Hog: Instead of writing a blog, why doesn't she turn to the rude people and say, "You're rude and never going to meet anyone worthwhile that way."

Because it is dangerous to do so.

Uh-huh. Every guy in the world is just waiting to beat the shiat out of women. I guess women are just that weak. No wonder they seek out violent, beefy men.

Seriously? Cant you do better than that? Its like watching somebody box an imaginary opponent.

Ok fine Ill indulge you. This is how it works. Every person we come across has the potential to be friend or foe. When out in a setting where we could be physically vulnerable (no matter who you are) we have to size up people we meet. If a drunk obnoxious idiot is saying rude things to you its generally not wise to call them on it or insult them.

If the person may not be drunk but is larger than you, or is driving a vehicle, or holding something that looks like they might use it as a weapon then you have to think very carefully before you respond to them.

If they are a boss or coworker you have to consider whether it is worth losing your job over.

What is it about the concept of "power deferential" that you dont get?

Then any reaction she has, including the one she took -- walking down the street -- is just as much of a threat. It's still a rebuke.

I'm 6' tall and 130 pounds. I have no chest. I *will* get my ass kicked in a fight. Yet I've never gotten into one in all of my years, and have still managed to stand up for myself when people say rude things to me. Sometimes it's clear that the goal is violence, so I just walk away -- but not everyone who is rude is going to be violent as well.

That's a cop-out.


And so what you are using as your closing argument is that you, as a 6' tall man, feel safe confronting rude behavior but women dont' and so we should all behave like 6' men do?
 
2013-01-19 11:33:16 AM
Oh boy, more postmodernist scum to put on my ignore list.
 
2013-01-19 11:33:26 AM
Sounds like she's not tough enough to live in the Big City. You get the pros of a megalopolis, you also get the cons. The sweet with the sour.

In a smaller city men don't pull that shiat (very often). Maybe frat-bro types. But who hangs out with those dude-bros?

In a smaller city there's a distinct lack of gutter trash hanging out on street corners. Well there's a lack of people on street corners in general. Hence the awesomeness.
 
2013-01-19 11:33:53 AM
That button is on the top of the can of pepper spray.
 
2013-01-19 11:35:09 AM
quickdraw
ok - so one chick was rude, the woman in your office should be brought up on harassment charges and yes there are bullies in the world. Life isnt fair. But what does any of that have to do with the writer's concerns? She isnt writing about the difficulties of being a short guy. You can do that on your blog if you want.


One rule of essay writing I learned in school: if you've several arguments for your position, put the strongest one or the one that you want to stick with people at the end.
Look at the last paragraph of that article, the one mentioning rape culture and Ask your female friends, if you have any, if they've ever..
followed by a list of things that you don't even have to ask female friends about, because even as a guy built like an NFL linesman you've done those things or at least had them on your mind.
That's the thing that will stick the most with people, be the aftertaste, when they come back here after reading the article.

It's pretty obvious to me where those comments coming from if one focuses on the last paragraph - the listed things might be worse for but they're not unique to being a woman.
No wonder that ending an article about "seeing things from the other side" with something like that is rubbing some people the other way.
 
2013-01-19 11:35:54 AM
This is stupid. Being a girl is fantastic.
 
2013-01-19 11:36:09 AM

Buffalo77: Two women walking down the sidewalk should be able to walk and converse without some idiot chasing them asking for their "taco". Next time you see something like this, call the dude out on it, make him realize he is being an asshole.


We're already doing that. What next?
 
2013-01-19 11:37:06 AM

Whodat: The author sounds like a narcissist.


And you sound like a clueless ass.

I love threads like this. They're such good asshole bait. As the troglodytes come slithering out, I can give the ignore button a good workout, and for the next few months the threads I follow become relatively idiot-free.

And I get a few folks worth adding to the favorites list as a bonus. Win/Win!
 
2013-01-19 11:37:09 AM

gilgigamesh: It may be regional. I live in the South. There's a certain gentility factor: women who work in my office have the door held open for them, men wait for them to exit the elevator before exiting themselves, that sort of thing. There is a sexism at work there, but only the passive kind only your most angry feminists get worked up about.

I can only imagine that some lout who groped a woman exiting an elevator would probably find himself leaving the elevator with a few broken fingers.


This is my experience exactly. I asked my wife, who can dress up to a solid 8-9, if she gets shiat like the author describes all the time, or ever. She laughed and said she'll sometimes get a creepy old patient at work who is just subtlety off putting, and very rarely a stupid cat call that is extremely non threatening. We've lived in a few of the "bigger' cities in LA and MS, and that's been the case in all of them. The other women I know, including my sister, relate similar things. I just don't see that behavior around here, so it's hard for us to relate.
 
2013-01-19 11:37:24 AM

DerAppie: When men do it to other men they get to hear that they should just suck it up


Yep.

A woman can get angry at a sexually suggestive comment from a man, and she is empowered and liberated. But if a man gets angry at a sexually suggestive comment from another man, he is a "homophobic" jerk. The author even talks about shoving a guy for making a comment. Is it okay for a guy to shove a guy just for making sexually suggestive comments? No. The outrage would be epic.

Please note - I think neither party should get angry in this situation. I am NOT being anti gay, I am being anti-double standard.

My own preference would be that everyone relax and stop being so uptight. But if I say that to a woman in this situation, I am a "patriarchal misogynistic chauvinist". Yet, amazingly, if I reacted like this woman does in this same situation (which I don't), I am a "homophobic intolerant bigot".
 
2013-01-19 11:37:25 AM

megarian: This is stupid. Being a girl is fantastic.


At the risk of sounding oppressive and patriarchal, the Lord was kind to you, sis.

/Not fishing
//Old enough to be your dad.
///Rowr.
 
2013-01-19 11:37:40 AM
Comedian Ever Mainard sums up this mindset in her excellent bit about the fact that women are constantly aware that "their rape" could happen at any time. She says, "The problem is that every woman has that one moment when you think, here's my rape!

Just asked my wife about this. At just over 40 she's had two of these moments that she can recall. That sucks.
 
2013-01-19 11:38:15 AM

megarian: This is stupid. Being a girl is fantastic.


You don't seem the least bit real.
 
2013-01-19 11:38:29 AM

It's Me Bender: quickdraw: Alright lets say hes terrified to tell me if some guy groped his ass at a trade show or something. Why wouldnt he tell me if he had been harassed before I met him?

Interesting how you assume that the harassment would be from a man.


quickdraw is a misandrist who thinks only men can do bad things.
 
2013-01-19 11:38:48 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: So you go into every thread about a serious issue of widespread social injustice to complain about how it sucks to be you because youre a short white guy with a job? Your life sucks because you are ridiculously self-obsessed - not because you are short.

I'm still learning to embrace my Bitterness (tm). I still get my ass kicked about not being humble about being A Hater and Proud. There are issues with sexual harassment which do need to be dealt with. Flipping the switch (script, whatever) doesnt work, though, because men and women think differently, interact towards one another differently, interact within the group differently.

Men are being honest when they don't see the big deal as it pertains to themselves. They only see the big deal when it pertains to their posessions (the women in their lives), so you get all kind of dudes who don't do the worst stuff not because they don't want it and wouldn't want it to happen to them, but because they don't want it to happen to the women in their lives. They mean well.

If women want to really flip it, they have to aim for the shiat that affects men as men, the shiat that personally offends men, the shiat that society pushes to make men feel lesser, weaker, less in control, less sure about themselves. So, what are those things?

Height's an easy one, because it's continually overlooked (just like men's issues can be overlooked). Again, unlike all the very superficial shiat named for women, height is something a man cannot control. He doesn't have to face catcalls from construction crews; his obstacle course is different, but it can still grind down on the soul.

Those who fail become Napoleonic (just like women who fail become Bitter) as a defense mechanism. You know what I mean?


Yeah... cops.
 
2013-01-19 11:39:09 AM

dopekitty74: My opinion as a formerly not-bad looking chick with a great rack is that this lady needs to lighten the hell up. I went from wolf whistles and catcalls to people i don't know driving by and making fun of me for being fat. I'd much rather the wolf whistles and nice rack comments. At least those made me feel good about my body.

Also needs to stop being so damned paranoid. I used to live in Edmonton, AB, and walked home from work at night without all these paranoid delusions about people waiting in the shadows to rape me. I was more worried about the whores who would try to attack me if i didn't give them a cigarette


really? you needed a bunch of mouth breathers yelling out of cars to make you feel good about your body? you make me embarrassed to be a fellow Albertan. Jesus.

It isn't just the cat calls and wolf whistles. it's walking down the street with one guy trailing you 10 feet behind, while his buddies cruise beside you in the car... as you try to figure out which house looks safe enough to run to. \this was when i was 14.
it's crying into your pillow because the guy you didn't want to fark just finished...but you were stupid enough to believe the line "it's ok, we'll just cuddle..."
it's standing in line at the farking SUBWAY sandwich shop while the guy behind you trails his finger down your ass. You turn to glare, and he licks his lips and says he'd rather eat you...

I am STILL not done with this crap. 43, and i still have to put up with guys feeling like it's ok to do this...

don't you understand that that kind of behaviour, and your attitude about it, that perpetuates the behaviour? Would you want your daughter to have to be subjected to it? i know i don't want mine to be.

you know what's really sickening? that this is in Canada. and the Canadian "rape culture" is a tiny fraction of what it is in the States. I can only imagine what it is like for women in the States, where there is 30 times the number of reported rapes, compared to here. So please... just because YOU never got raped after being stupid enough to walk down a deserted street at night, doesn't mean we are all wrong, and that you were not in legitimate danger.
 
2013-01-19 11:39:56 AM

jimmajim: WhippingBoy: jimmajim: So the consensus in this thread is that the guys described in TFA did nothing wrong? There's no point in criticizing their behavior, boys will be boys, right? wink wink nudge nudge.

Who said that? Be specific.

No one did -- my point is that there's plenty of criticism in here of TFA's author, but, strangely, no criticism of the behavior that she describes.


Right. We're just supposed to feel guilty over the actions of some guys that we've never met and have no control over. I'm sure you wouldn't be jumping all over the author if it were a man complaining about "women" either. Go fark yourself.
 
2013-01-19 11:40:15 AM

Bored Horde: Two examples of celebrities.

In the business world, if you're a man, as long as your hair is short and under control, everyone ignores it. It's a check box item. Women's hair gets graded. Men's clothing is the same - it's pass/fail, either the suit is clean, pressed, and fits or it's bad. Women's clothing gets graded for appearance, fashion, and riding the thin line between dowdy and slutty.

If you don't understand this then you're not ready to participate in a discussion about the matter - go read some farking books.


FTA:
with coverage of female politicians and ask yourself whether anyone would spend this much time discussing Joe Biden's hairstyles.

My reference to the article was about celebrity, not common joe/jolene and their hair.

If you didn't understand that, get help, you have issues with reality and context.
 
2013-01-19 11:40:27 AM

RassilonsExWife: Whodat: The author sounds like a narcissist.

And you sound like a clueless ass.

I love threads like this. They're such good asshole bait. As the troglodytes come slithering out, I can give the ignore button a good workout, and for the next few months the threads I follow become relatively idiot-free.

And I get a few folks worth adding to the favorites list as a bonus. Win/Win!


Rather than bragging about how outraged you are, how about contributing something meaningful to the discussion?
 
2013-01-19 11:41:12 AM

The Voice of Doom: quickdraw
ok - so one chick was rude, the woman in your office should be brought up on harassment charges and yes there are bullies in the world. Life isnt fair. But what does any of that have to do with the writer's concerns? She isnt writing about the difficulties of being a short guy. You can do that on your blog if you want.

One rule of essay writing I learned in school: if you've several arguments for your position, put the strongest one or the one that you want to stick with people at the end.
Look at the last paragraph of that article, the one mentioning rape culture and Ask your female friends, if you have any, if they've ever..
followed by a list of things that you don't even have to ask female friends about, because even as a guy built like an NFL linesman you've done those things or at least had them on your mind.
That's the thing that will stick the most with people, be the aftertaste, when they come back here after reading the article.

It's pretty obvious to me where those comments coming from if one focuses on the last paragraph - the listed things might be worse for but they're not unique to being a woman.
No wonder that ending an article about "seeing things from the other side" with something like that is rubbing some people the other way.


I would agree with you except these are the same exact comments that come up every time an article like this is linked. You get whole posse' of guys loaded with false equivocations - whining about how tough men have it and how not all men are bad.

Actually though I am much heartened by the way Fark has evolved over the years. It used to be those kinds "Help I'm a white male being oppressed by women who dont like to be harassed" comments were 90% of a thread. Now they are only 60%.

Progress!
 
2013-01-19 11:41:30 AM

noitsnot: megarian: This is stupid. Being a girl is fantastic.

You don't seem the least bit real.


I'm not. At all. Smoke and mirrors?
 
2013-01-19 11:41:47 AM

gilgigamesh: "Sexual harrassment is the wrong man noticing your tits."

Or specifically, as the author described, "middle aged".


That was one example.
 
2013-01-19 11:41:50 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: DerAppie: When men do it to other men they get to hear that they should just suck it up

Yep.

A woman can get angry at a sexually suggestive comment from a man, and she is empowered and liberated. But if a man gets angry at a sexually suggestive comment from another man, he is a "homophobic" jerk. The author even talks about shoving a guy for making a comment. Is it okay for a guy to shove a guy just for making sexually suggestive comments? No. The outrage would be epic.

Please note - I think neither party should get angry in this situation. I am NOT being anti gay, I am being anti-double standard.

My own preference would be that everyone relax and stop being so uptight. But if I say that to a woman in this situation, I am a "patriarchal misogynistic chauvinist". Yet, amazingly, if I reacted like this woman does in this same situation (which I don't), I am a "homophobic intolerant bigot".


A gay guy gave me a compliment once. I was just flattered that someone found me attractive in any way.
 
2013-01-19 11:42:52 AM

quickdraw: And so what you are using as your closing argument is that you, as a 6' tall man, feel safe confronting rude behavior but women dont' and so we should all behave like 6' men do?


Picture 6' and 130 lbs. Just picture it in your head. No-one is physically intimidated by me, yet I still find ways to get my point across in face-to-face interaction.

All the women friends I have are able to do that -- I've seen it in action -- and I've never seen any of them get into fisticuffs with men or women. Usually the offender just shuts up and wanders to the other side of the bar.
 
2013-01-19 11:43:34 AM

Bored Horde: Women have to be average to slightly-above-average looking, thin but not too thin, fashionable without being slutty or dowdy, done up without going too far - women live on a razor's edge that doesn't exist for men. Everything a woman does is open for judgement, in a way that isn't true for men. Go farking talk to some women. Ask them how stressful buying a skirt is - is it fashionable or slutty to have a hemline 2 inches above their knees? What if they're self-conscious about their knees and want to wear a below-the-knees skirt - will people subconsciously regard them as too conservative and pass them over for big projects or management positions?


Funny thing is that most of the judgement is coming from women against other women.
 
2013-01-19 11:43:38 AM

AJisaff: this is in Canada. and the Canadian "rape culture" is a tiny fraction of what it is in the States.


There is no "rape culture". There's criminal culture. And as soon as we get back to stringing up that faction of it and tossing them in lime pits and quit acting like dime store criminals, pirate bankers and thugs are some kind of rock stars, we'll all be safer.
 
2013-01-19 11:43:45 AM

megarian: noitsnot: megarian: This is stupid. Being a girl is fantastic.

You don't seem the least bit real.

I'm not. At all. Smoke and mirrors?


Like Lindsay Lohan. Except she's more the cocaine on the mirrors than the mirrors themselves.
 
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