If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Fox News)   Whole Foods CEO John Mackey would like all of the tree-hugging liberals who shop at his stores to know that he wasn't being serious when he used the word "fascism" to describe Obamacare   (foxnews.com) divider line 332
    More: Fail, CEO John Mackey, obamacare, means of production, health law, fascists, liberals  
•       •       •

5995 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jan 2013 at 1:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



332 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-01-18 04:42:57 PM
nexxus:
I think cap and trade was a sinister plot hatched by people who want to make as much money as possible, and so do most people involved in that space.

So which is it? You don't trust the profiteers to sort out the environment, but you're happy to let them into the healthcare hen-house?
 
2013-01-18 04:44:56 PM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.


That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!
 
2013-01-18 04:46:14 PM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.


Well, I assume that most people are adults and understand, that in a fuctioning society, there are some things that people need to be told what to do. That is why we have rules and regulation. A truely free market can't exist in a world where there is not perfect information and perfect competition. The invisible hand can't truly function unless there is another one to slap it sometimes.
 
2013-01-18 04:46:56 PM

jst3p: Dr. Whoof: Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.

This tree-hugging liberal shops at Kroger, Target and Wal-Mart, because there isn't a Trader Joe's anywhere near me, and Whole Foods is always full of hipsters, and I can't stand hipsters. The prices suck balls too.

Also, this tree-hugging liberal only has so much money to make it through a week.

We choose our battles - where to buy food isn't one I'm willing to fight.

You wont shop at whole foods because of the other people that shop there, but you don't mind the People of Walmart?

[www.dumpaday.com image 620x387]


1-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2013-01-18 04:46:56 PM
Over 400 comments and nothing about Beer?

I love the place - great beer, freshly sliced bacon and stuffed sausages from the meat counter. Greens are always super fresh... and I can drink a beer while I shop.

Seriously... HEB/Safeway/Publix/whatever - maybe you have a Starbucks inside.

Whole Foods has a farking bar. With microbrews. Barstools. The full deal, just stuck in there between the dairy case and the bakery.

Yes, the owner says silly things and sticks his foot in his mouth politically, but everyone knows Whole Foods is a Texas business - that's just an expected local quirk for Texans.
 
2013-01-18 04:51:52 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.


How would react to someone holding a gun to your head telling you to do what they thought was the morally correct thing to do and the way they wanted it done? What if it was a one-size fits all thing that you didn't think would work for your situation and preferred a different solution?

To another angle, isn't this idea that employers (or even government) should provide and care for us just a little too much like slavery or serfdom? It's little too much like those old company towns where the owner of the company tried to create some utopia and run the private lives of the employees. It seems to me that if this weren't about getting a hold on us, we could just get paid cash instead of having another party purchase health care insurance for us. Why can't we get employers and government out of this and just have a market where there is competition for our business?

What I see is far too many people not questioning how health care got the way it is, only assuming it has to be this way. Thus the solutions proposed will only serve to worsen the problem.
 
2013-01-18 05:01:23 PM

leadmetal: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

How would react to someone holding a gun to your head telling you to do what they thought was the morally correct thing to do and the way they wanted it done? What if it was a one-size fits all thing that you didn't think would work for your situation and preferred a different solution?

To another angle, isn't this idea that employers (or even government) should provide and care for us just a little too much like slavery or serfdom? It's little too much like those old company towns where the owner of the company tried to create some utopia and run the private lives of the employees. It seems to me that if this weren't about getting a hold on us, we could just get paid cash instead of having another party purchase health care insurance for us. Why can't we get employers and government out of this and just have a market where there is competition for our business?

What I see is far too many people not questioning how health care got the way it is, only assuming it has to be this way. Thus the solutions proposed will only serve to worsen the problem.


Agreed entirely.

Thank you, sir, for being rational, asking pertinent questions, and drawing a very reasonable 'conclusion.'
 
2013-01-18 05:12:26 PM

RoxtarRyan: Ivandrago: My local Whole Foods stopped selling bulk semolina so they can suck it.

I always cook my chicken thoroughly so I avoid having that. Don't want another stomach ache....

:D


Does this mean we have to drive to Tallahassee and get it from the source?
 
2013-01-18 05:13:33 PM
Of course he took it back, every single farking Republican that opens his mouth today has to back track on what they said. "Oh I didn't mean it literally" "It was a joke" "You need to read between the lines" "The words that come out of my mouth mean something different than what they mean."
 
2013-01-18 05:19:17 PM

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: Of course he took it back, every single farking Republican that opens his mouth today has to back track on what they said. "Oh I didn't mean it literally" "It was a joke" "You need to read between the lines" "The words that come out of my mouth mean something different than what they mean."


You're right, but you should also recognize that the Democrats (who are *people*, like Republicans) do the same. One year it's one thing, the next year.. or month.. or week.. it's another.

Again, we're back to the argument that smaller government is better. The fewer people that can change their minds, 'misspeak', or otherwise misrepresent, the better.
 
2013-01-18 05:20:07 PM

odinsposse: the crops they grow in their basement with their pocket mulch.


I'm a level 5 vegan
 
2013-01-18 05:21:47 PM
What's sad is that people with a lot of money foist off some ignorant political viewpoint on the world, they think something important happens. And so do we.
 
2013-01-18 05:22:11 PM
Like I needed an excuse not to shop at Whole Foods. Their prices are sometimes DOUBLE what Trader Joe's charges. If I really need that much selection of cheese I'll go to a cheese shop thank you.
 
2013-01-18 05:32:55 PM

Mach10: nexxus:
I think cap and trade was a sinister plot hatched by people who want to make as much money as possible, and so do most people involved in that space.

So which is it? You don't trust the profiteers to sort out the environment, but you're happy to let them into the healthcare hen-house?


No, you've misread or misunderstood me. I support neither Obamacare nor Cap-n-Trade I want very little government involvement in anything. I want 'them' to leave 'us' alone.

Live and let live. Smoke pot (or crack) if you want. Marry who you want to marry. Keep your money and spend it how you like. Buy insurance or not. Eat a Big Mac, 2 lbs of ribs, 2lbs of french fries, and a super size coke or two all at the same time, if you want. I couldn't care less, unless you're directly harming me or my family.

I fall, politically, somewhere near the intersection of libertarian, anarchocapitalist, and minarchist.
 
2013-01-18 05:32:58 PM

ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?


Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.
 
2013-01-18 05:33:37 PM

jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!


You're improperly conflating two unrelated issues.
 
2013-01-18 05:34:36 PM

All2morrowsparTs: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

Well, I assume that most people are adults and understand, that in a fuctioning society, there are some things that people need to be told what to do. That is why we have rules and regulation. A truely free market can't exist in a world where there is not perfect information and perfect competition. The invisible hand can't truly function unless there is another one to slap it sometimes.


I agree, generally, that we won't ever have a perfect system, but what we're doing now is pretty damn far from it, and getting 'worse' .. that's the issue.
 
2013-01-18 05:38:28 PM

PanicMan: ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?

Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.


We don't have..and haven't had for a long time.. a free market. It should be obvious that it can't regulate itself.
 
2013-01-18 05:39:24 PM

PanicMan: ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?

Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.


The market wasn't particularly free before.

And actual election outcomes at the time seem to imply desire for substantially more radical legislation. Obamacare can largely be attributed the fundamentally anti-democratic filibuster.
 
2013-01-18 05:48:13 PM

nexxus: PanicMan: ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?

Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.

We don't have..and haven't had for a long time.. a free market. It should be obvious that it can't regulate itself.


I agree with you. So then the government steps in and either does the job, or passes laws forcing the market to do it. That's pretty much the definition of government. I have no issues with this.
 
2013-01-18 05:50:31 PM
In business management 101, he should have learned not to offend his clientele. His hippie food store loses business every time he opens his flap. If his salary is minimum wage, he is not earning it.
 
2013-01-18 05:53:57 PM

jjorsett: There's nothing fascists hate more than being called fascists.


Fascist.
 
2013-01-18 05:57:28 PM

PanicMan: nexxus: PanicMan: ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?

Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.

We don't have..and haven't had for a long time.. a free market. It should be obvious that it can't regulate itself.

I agree with you. So then the government steps in and either does the job, or passes laws forcing the market to do it. That's pretty much the definition of government. I have no issues with this.


While we agree that there's a problem and what the problem is, we seem to disagree on the solution.

I prefer eliminate the regulations/'controls' that created the original imbalance, rather than add more controls (and reduce freedom) which will likely have even more unintended, and often adverse, consequences.
 
2013-01-18 05:58:11 PM

macdaddy357: In business management 101, he should have learned not to offend his clientele. His hippie food store loses business every time he opens his flap. If his salary is minimum wage, he is not earning it.


I suppose that sounds good, at least, to someone. Somewhere.
 
2013-01-18 06:02:17 PM

nexxus: While we agree that there's a problem and what the problem is, we seem to disagree on the solution.


The problem is avarice as a codified aspect of "successful" business practices. The solution is to dismantle that component. History has shown that this is often accomplished with mob violence. I hope some of these masters of the universe have read it.
 
2013-01-18 06:11:36 PM

bunner: nexxus: While we agree that there's a problem and what the problem is, we seem to disagree on the solution.

The problem is avarice as a codified aspect of "successful" business practices. The solution is to dismantle that component. History has shown that this is often accomplished with mob violence. I hope some of these masters of the universe have read it.


The problem isn't the avarice of those in the business community (though that doesn't help). The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain; whether that gain is directly material or related to reelection varies. Either way, they very often put themselves first and that harms all of us.

That said, we *do* have a cultural problem that may end up being sorted out by the 'mob' .. we don't disagree there. I just hope whoever might initiate actions intended to bring about such a 'correction' knows enough to, and can, direct their (and the mob's) emotions appropriately.
 
2013-01-18 06:12:26 PM

jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!


You're not truly free until you're driving drunk on the left side of the road. Blindfolded.
 
2013-01-18 06:14:43 PM

Dansker: jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!

You're not truly free until you're driving drunk on the left side of the road. Blindfolded.


Ridiculous. No one is suggesting that anything of the sort is 'alright'. Wouldn't it be best to stick to the actual issue, or are you just trolling?
 
2013-01-18 06:17:49 PM

nexxus: Dansker: jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!

You're not truly free until you're driving drunk on the left side of the road. Blindfolded.

Ridiculous. No one is suggesting that anything of the sort is 'alright'. Wouldn't it be best to stick to the actual issue, or are you just trolling?


Get over yourself.
 
2013-01-18 06:18:29 PM

nexxus: The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain


Which, sadly, makes them an extension of the corporate culture and not a body of representative governance, Q.E.D. They joined the other team.
 
2013-01-18 06:21:46 PM

bunner: nexxus: The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain

Which, sadly, makes them an extension of the corporate culture and not a body of representative governance, Q.E.D. They joined the other team.


Agreed entirely, sir.
 
2013-01-18 06:23:42 PM

Dansker: nexxus: Dansker: jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!

You're not truly free until you're driving drunk on the left side of the road. Blindfolded.

Ridiculous. No one is suggesting that anything of the sort is 'alright'. Wouldn't it be best to stick to the actual issue, or are you just trolling?

Get over yourself.


I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.

Anyway, I'm not sure how I'd get over myself, even if I wanted to. I'm the center of my universe.
 
2013-01-18 06:26:46 PM

nexxus: bunner: nexxus: The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain

Which, sadly, makes them an extension of the corporate culture and not a body of representative governance, Q.E.D. They joined the other team.

Agreed entirely, sir.


And yet, we sit here, like orphaned children who are begrudged a seat at the table, tugging on their sleeves and sewing their patches on our coats, as if something is going to change or we might get access to a fork and a full plate. The system *is* fundamentally broken and it's not a matter of mechanics, it's a matter of decades of sh*tting where you eat and expecting it not to bite you on the ass. The next thirty years are either going to be the event horizon of something that will make the French revolution look like an afternoon tea in the Hamptons, or a slow but effective dismantling of corporate rule. I pray it is the latter.
 
2013-01-18 06:35:09 PM

nexxus:
I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.


I don't troll and I don't need an argument. I was just throwing a bit of flippant banter jatkay's way, as is Farkers' wont.
I wasn't addressing you, and I have no interest in talking to you. This is where we reach the end of my polite reply, you idiot.
 
2013-01-18 06:36:25 PM
All things arc and peak and recede. That's physics, ffs. The etch a sketch IS going to get shaken because there's nothing else TO do with it. The trick is who is holding it when it gets shaken. That's what dictates the aftermath. So far, we can't even get into the same room as the etch a sketch without waking up in Guantanamo. Convenient new set of laws, those.
 
2013-01-18 06:49:50 PM

bunner: nexxus: bunner: nexxus: The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain

Which, sadly, makes them an extension of the corporate culture and not a body of representative governance, Q.E.D. They joined the other team.

Agreed entirely, sir.

And yet, we sit here, like orphaned children who are begrudged a seat at the table, tugging on their sleeves and sewing their patches on our coats, as if something is going to change or we might get access to a fork and a full plate. The system *is* fundamentally broken and it's not a matter of mechanics, it's a matter of decades of sh*tting where you eat and expecting it not to bite you on the ass. The next thirty years are either going to be the event horizon of something that will make the French revolution look like an afternoon tea in the Hamptons, or a slow but effective dismantling of corporate rule. I pray it is the latter.


Agreed, again. Though even with a seat at the table there's little direct action to be taken. The 'machine' is too big and has too much momentum, and only small, gentle corrections can be made (short of the alternate you describe, in my opinion). The corrupt are entrenched, and, I think, in many cases only superficially understand that what they're doing is wrong or that there's any problem with it - "it's just how it is." As you said, things have been progressing for decades and that tends to blur any distinctions wrt behavior that might otherwise be clear.

Correcting this kind of 'bad behavior' - whether in corporate culture or in government - is extremely difficult; it often requires a 'rewrite' of belief systems (which may not ever actually 'take' - we're only so plastic). It's often much easier and preferable - again, in my opinion - to just replace the people 'gumming up the works'. Again, a very slow process, given the structure of our system.

Anyway, we're in agreement. Appreciate the dialogue.
 
2013-01-18 06:50:33 PM

Dansker: nexxus:
I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.

I don't troll and I don't need an argument. I was just throwing a bit of flippant banter jatkay's way, as is Farkers' wont.
I wasn't addressing you, and I have no interest in talking to you. This is where we reach the end of my polite reply, you idiot.


Great. Take care, idiot.
 
2013-01-18 06:53:50 PM

nexxus: Dansker: nexxus:
I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.

I don't troll and I don't need an argument. I was just throwing a bit of flippant banter jatkay's way, as is Farkers' wont.
I wasn't addressing you, and I have no interest in talking to you. This is where we reach the end of my polite reply, you idiot.

Great. Take care, idiot.


nexxus: Dansker: nexxus:
I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.

I don't troll and I don't need an argument. I was just throwing a bit of flippant banter jatkay's way, as is Farkers' wont.
I wasn't addressing you, and I have no interest in talking to you. This is where we reach the end of my polite reply, you idiot.

Great. Take care, idiot.


At least I'm not a troll.
 
2013-01-18 06:54:40 PM

Dansker: At least I'm not a troll.


Okay.
 
2013-01-18 07:30:37 PM

Uncle Bester: Don't care, don't shop there, never will.

Business owners that wear their derpitude on their sleeves don't get my patronage.


Exactly. Business owners, musicians, actors, sportsmen/women, teachers, politicians...
 
2013-01-18 07:40:57 PM

ManRay: The government tells insurance companies what they have to cover, where they can sell their products and how much profit they can make. It is also going to require people to purchase those products or pay a fine.

But that's not the government controlling a segment of the economy or anything, it's just a light touch of regulation.


Just curious. Do you consider auto insurance laws fascism as well? What about seat belt laws? Pollution laws?
 
2013-01-18 08:01:03 PM
He sounds libertarian.  Or just a weird guy?

Seem to recall an incident where Mr. Mackey was caught writing an anonymous blog dissing Wild Oats.
 
2013-01-18 08:15:44 PM

Rapmaster2000: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 640x426]

This is how Mommy parks when taking Parker and Emma to pick up Annie's Organic Mac and Cheese.

Typical lib.  Right next to the lib with the Jesus fish.


I'll see your lib and raise you this...

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-01-18 08:37:12 PM
Once you open the bottle of Patchouli oil, you can't put the smell back in.
 
2013-01-18 09:07:45 PM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.


If they need to be told to treat their employees as human beings, then something's wrong with them and they need to be told what to do.
 
2013-01-18 09:11:08 PM
The Democrats in the 90s asked Michael Jordan if he could run as a Democratic Congressman for them, I'm not sure if it was state politics or federal but my recollection was that it was after he retired the first time, he told them that Republicans buy shoes so no he wouldn't.
If you're in the business of selling things, you don't alienate half of your market. Democrats and Republicans aren't all like their stereotypes, a ton of your customers vote differently to you and you rely on their money to keep running. Having a Republican government which you vocally support saving you 2% off of your tax bill can lose you 10% of your income if your customers get sick of listening to you and associate your political positions with your organisation.
 
2013-01-18 09:13:31 PM
I'd also like to point out now no one gave a shiat about Romneycare when Romney installed it in Massachusetts, but when Obama liked it so much he decided to make it national (without any changes, either) is when the shiatstorm struck and suddenly Romneycare was the most evil and socialist and Satanic thing to ever happen.
 
2013-01-18 09:32:03 PM

imgod2u: Just curious. Do you consider auto insurance laws fascism as well? What about seat belt laws? Pollution laws?


To be clear, the fascist part to me is the telling a company what it can sell and how much it can profit from it.

Auto Insurance: No. It's voluntary since I don't have to drive, and the required insurance is for liability.
Seat belt laws: No. But I have heard convincing arguments either way.
Pollution : In general no (as they are an extension of property rights).

I think that government has a legit role in regulation. My best friend is a radiation inspector for the NRC. I am glad he does that so I don't have to...the Agency is inspecting in my stead. It's when the Feds get in to profits and what and where you can sell I get off the train.
 
2013-01-18 09:38:42 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

If they need to be told to treat their employees as human beings, then something's wrong with them and they need to be told what to do.


Whether a company can afford to provide medical insurance has nothing to do with whether they see their employees as human, no matter how much you might like to think that it does. If someone doesn't like what company A is offering, they should work for company B.

You, apparently, think it's alright to hold a gun to company A's head and tell them to hand over their money.

Would vote for Wilson again, too, wouldn't you?
 
2013-01-18 09:50:58 PM
"Not intended as a factual statement" is the second to last refuge of the douchebag.
 
Displayed 50 of 332 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report