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(Fox News)   Whole Foods CEO John Mackey would like all of the tree-hugging liberals who shop at his stores to know that he wasn't being serious when he used the word "fascism" to describe Obamacare   (foxnews.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, CEO John Mackey, obamacare, means of production, health law, fascists, liberals  
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6015 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jan 2013 at 1:52 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-18 03:36:42 PM  
If you care about health, apparently shopping at Whole Foods is a poor idea.
 
2013-01-18 03:37:45 PM  
Obamacare is Compassionate Fascism. Compascism if you like.
 
2013-01-18 03:38:26 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: dabbletech: JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.

Because as you and the other 149 people who have posted in this thread so far know, people should not express their opinions.

Oh he is full and well has the right to express his opinion, and we have the right to mock him for it and decide not to give him our service, hence as a CEO he has a feduciary responsibility to his stockholders not to say stupid things and alienate his revenue source.


Agreed.
 
2013-01-18 03:38:49 PM  

UsikFark: Semolina is the coarse, purified wheat middlings of durum wheat used in making pasta, breakfast cereals, puddings, and couscous Pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower.



ftfy
 
2013-01-18 03:38:57 PM  

Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.


This
 
2013-01-18 03:41:02 PM  
It's pretty pathetic when the elitist, white liberal will choose his or her's market place based on the owner's political views. Seriously, you will gladly destroy our environment by driving your Prius an extra 15 miles so you can buy your "organic wares" at Trader Joe's instead of Whole Foods?

...Atlas may be shrugging but Mother Earth is balling her freaking eyes out. Jerks.
 
2013-01-18 03:45:35 PM  
There's nothing fascists hate more than being called fascists.

i48.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-18 03:45:47 PM  
I'd have more respect for these people (who say stupid things publicly and then issue an insincere "apology" later) if they'd just admit they don't know what words mean. He says he "made a poor word choice." Which is a lie.

He just didn't know what the word "fascist" actually meant, he probably saw/read all the Republican assholes using it, so he jumped on the "fascist" bandwagon.

Lots of people do this. They read some stupid shiat on the intertubes or see it on TV and repeat it simply because everybody else is saying it.

I bet if you asked him to give you the definition of "fascism" right now, he couldn't do it. Because he thought (and probably still does) that "fascist" means "leader who does stuff I don't like."
 
2013-01-18 03:46:33 PM  

Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy, which is vastly different from spouting off about "Obongos gonna takes mah monies, that's facisms!". Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.


You might have a point if this were a debate in a polisci course, but the problem is that every government picks and chooses the political model for a particular need based on the situation. Thus, a capitalistic society may in fact have a system (in this instance, healthcare) that is not owned by the government, but is in effect highly controlled by the government through policies. To label it fascist might be arguable in an academic context, but it is simply inflamatory in a public setting where the label 'fascist' will be conflated with regimes whose whole method of governance was by fascist models rather than single instances. Moussolini, and Hitler's idea of a perfect state for example.
 
2013-01-18 03:47:55 PM  

jdoncbus2: It's pretty pathetic when the elitist, white liberal will choose his or her's market place based on the owner's political views. Seriously, you will gladly destroy our environment by driving your Prius an extra 15 miles so you can buy your "organic wares" at Trader Joe's instead of Whole Foods?

...Atlas may be shrugging but Mother Earth is balling her freaking eyes out. Jerks.


What if Trader Joe's is closer to home than Whole Foods?

/bet you didn't think of that
//*snicker*
 
2013-01-18 03:50:46 PM  

Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy, which is vastly different from spouting off about "Obongos gonna takes mah monies, that's facisms!". Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.


...Wow. You really don't know what fascism is in any sense, do you.

/History, politics, reality, how do they farking work.
 
2013-01-18 03:51:52 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: nexxus:

Let's break it down:
* 'Obamacare and stripping gunrights = Fascism.' Clear there's a debate here, so it's a reasonable statement relating his point of view.
>>this is not a reasonable statement it is Hyperbole at best and complete Bullshiat at worst. If you look at the definition of facsism there is no debate. Also Obamacare was a heritage foundation idea, so are conservatives Fascists? Stripping gun rights is another illusion that has no backing in reality.

* 'All power to the state, none to the individual.' The state is taking more power and you're left with less. QED.
>>More hyperbole that does not follow the premise assuming he is folllwing from his first statement.

* 'And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system?' Legitimate question.
>>This is legetimate question but then follows with tripe.

* 'Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole?' I can't imagine anyone thinks the people who work in government aren't, by and large, idiots. Obamacare does increase 'dole'.
>>see

* 'To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them.' You can't, and it is a shame.
>>How is Obamacare like North Korea and China? By the way China and North Korea do not have the same forms of goverment or even societal norms and goverment control.

* 'A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.' This does happen, and it is too bad you can't talk to them.
>> So don;t live in NK and China. I'm sure you and him will stop buying chinese made products but this still ahs nothing to do with Obamacare and how our goverment currently opperates.

* 'Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.' Maybe he shouldn't have called ...
See how can you argue with this? I wonder how he feels when people get stripped of their voting rights because they can't afford to get a state ID, rules keep changing, and access gets restricted? How about the same sex marriage?


1) It's clear you disagree with him, and that's fine. But it doesn't make his statement less valid. Fascists tend to control lives and take guns. I think that's what he was getting it, though I'm not a mind reader.
2) The way it was stated may have a bit hyperbolic, but the point was valid. By regulating, the state takes more power, and you're left with less.
3) Agreed, mostly.
4) Might not be tripe, though. It is possibly trolly-y and such, but his point may be legitimate. Government doesn't generally do a good job taking care of anyone or anything. And we have a large and growing segment of the population that sits around and does nothing while waiting for checks.
5) I think you've missed his point. He's saying, I believe, that government control is bad and is using a bit of an extreme example to illustrate.
6) Again, you've missed or chosen not to see his point.
7) Government should have *nothing* to do with marriage, period. Marriage is between two people - whether they're man and woman, man and man, or woman and woman. Why should we (collectively, as the government) care a bit who or how people choose to live together? And as for the voting ID issue, I'm a little conflicted: we should ensure that people who vote are citizens and entitled, but I certainly wouldn't want disenfranchise anyone, either.
 
2013-01-18 03:52:15 PM  

jjorsett: There's nothing fascists hate more than being called fascists.

[i48.tinypic.com image 370x274]


Fascists!
 
2013-01-18 03:52:35 PM  

PsiChick: Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy, which is vastly different from spouting off about "Obongos gonna takes mah monies, that's facisms!". Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.

...Wow. You really don't know what fascism is in any sense, do you.

/History, politics, reality, how do they farking work.


History and reality have a well known liberal bias. Didn't you know this?
 
2013-01-18 03:52:41 PM  
Hale-Bopp: What if Trader Joe's is closer to home than Whole Foods?

/bet you didn't think of that
//*snicker*


You got me on that one. Luckily for me, I have a Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and The Anderson's all within 1/4 mile of one another! Score on every level and my Honda Pilot & Civic smile with glee.
 
2013-01-18 03:53:06 PM  
The fact that people are in an uproar about this statement tells me they are ignorant and emotionally reacting to it.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Obamacare is clearly corporatist. It builds upon the previously established corporatist system that is the health care business in the USA.

Besides, the health insurance companies will rake in huge profits in the beginning of Obama care. Raising rates, forcing people who don't need their insurance to buy it, denying whatever the government says they can deny, etc and so on. However as time goes on it will bite them in the ass and break them. Politics is about transferring wealth from A to B. Each election cycle there will be more to cover and increases will be restricted. Between increased coverage and inflation the system will go bankrupt and then the government can take over entirely. Much like what happened to transit and passenger rail.

As to Whole Foods' customer demographic, food has been a corporatist business in the USA since the 1930s when it was still cool to be a fascist. The typical Whole Foods customer should be someone who doesn't want to eat food from the big industrial players that federal government law and regulation favors at the expense of smaller producers. Isn't the entire point of paying more at whole foods to avoid the processed food and food with chemicals added to it and nutrients removed from it?

Thus, someone who doesn't like the corporatist food machine probably shouldn't like corporatist health care either. Of course understanding how the food and health care got the way they are isn't too common.
 
2013-01-18 03:53:33 PM  

urbangirl: no thanks. waaayyyy too much spittle in that little screed.
btw, i work in government. i'm intelligent and conscientious and i make a positive difference in people's lives. so i'm going back to work now. have fun, y'all.


It would be better if you would defend yourself.

But, anyway, assuming you've accurately characterized yourself: thank you for your service.. we need more like you.
 
2013-01-18 03:57:58 PM  

Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy,


Unless of course you actually look up what fascism is and know that he's incredibly, completely wrong.
 
2013-01-18 03:58:24 PM  

Dr. Whoof: Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.

This tree-hugging liberal shops at Kroger, Target and Wal-Mart, because there isn't a Trader Joe's anywhere near me, and Whole Foods is always full of hipsters, and I can't stand hipsters. The prices suck balls too.

Also, this tree-hugging liberal only has so much money to make it through a week.

We choose our battles - where to buy food isn't one I'm willing to fight.


You wont shop at whole foods because of the other people that shop there, but you don't mind the People of Walmart?

www.dumpaday.com
 
2013-01-18 03:59:59 PM  
The government tells insurance companies what they have to cover, where they can sell their products and how much profit they can make. It is also going to require people to purchase those products or pay a fine.

But that's not the government controlling a segment of the economy or anything, it's just a light touch of regulation.
 
2013-01-18 04:00:00 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: nexxus: jaytkay: Last time this was in the new, teabaggers/freepers/etc were vowing online to do ALL their shopping at Whole Foods.

Imagine their reaction when they walked in and found no Bacon 'n' Cheese Chicken Nuggets with Dippin' Sauce.

lol conservatives lol

Everyone is in for a rude awakening when they realize that making government responsible for our health, makes it their business what you eat, as health is directly related to nutrition and what you put into your body. In fact, it's very nearly the only thing that matters.

Your slippery slope is very slippery. The goverment has a vested right to have some responsibility over our heath as it is in our vested interest not to have a defence force that can't run a mile or a workforce to unhealthy to grow our GDP. That is why we have a CDC, DOH, FDA, USDA, etc. So are you saying the Heritage Foundation, who came up with the framework for "Obama/Romney Care" are interested in full government control over our bodies? You probably think Cap and Trade was hatched as a sisnister liberal plot as well.


It is a slippery slope.. a very slippery one. I'm saying that, eventually, the government will feel it has more and more right to take more and more control over our lives because it has taken control of healthcare. See the definition of 'slippery slope'.

I think cap and trade was a sinister plot hatched by people who want to make as much money as possible, and so do most people involved in that space. Carbon offset trading is a joke. I was involved in a project several years back that would have sold offsets, and the whole concept is mostly laughed at by those in that part of that industry, from consultants to exchange operators. There are no standards, there's much corruption, and little accountability, and I could go on and on. It's just a big money game that's recognized as such by those who participate.
 
2013-01-18 04:00:14 PM  

GT_bike: Uncle Bester: Don't care, don't shop there, never will.

Business owners that wear their derpitude on their sleeves don't get my patronage.

So as a hipster you never shopped there because his derpitude was so evident that you were boycotting him before it was even in the news?

How have so many people gotten to the point that leads them to believe the purpose of a business isn't to provide a product or service to consumers but to provide jobs and healthcare to employees?

Farking Hipster Buggy Whip factories closing to avoid Obamacare!


Actually, the purpose of a business is neither of those things. They are merely methods used to achieve the real purpose which is to maximize profit. Many schools of thought believe that a happy workforce is sufficiently more productive than an unhappy workforce to offset or exceed the investment in the employees. Thus the production of goods and services is more efficient, customers are more satisfied and loyal, and your next marketing campaign that tells everyone how much you care doesn't come across as douchebag bullshiat.
 
2013-01-18 04:01:29 PM  

ManRay: The government tells insurance companies what they have to cover, where they can sell their products and how much profit they can make. It is also going to require people to purchase those products or pay a fine.

But that's not the government controlling a segment of the economy or anything, it's just a light touch of regulation.


And there's a gun to your head, essentially, if you choose not to participate. Keep that in mind.

What happens if you refuse to pay them or do as you're told? They fine and attack you legally. What happens if you continue to resist? They send people after you physically.
 
2013-01-18 04:01:43 PM  
I've never once shopped at a Chick-fil-a, Home Depot, Hobby Lobby or Whole Foods.

Guess I never will now that I've heard about their owners' politics and/or religion :( I'm so verklempt.
 
2013-01-18 04:03:10 PM  

someonelse: nexxus: Everyone is in for a rude awakening when they realize that making government responsible for our health, makes it their business what you eat, as health is directly related to nutrition and what you put into your body. In fact, it's very nearly the only thing that matters.

And this is happening when?


Obamacare clearly invites government into our health decisions. Who knows when it'll actually happen, but it's, as the previous poster pointed out, a slippery slope.
 
2013-01-18 04:03:16 PM  
If your brand is heavily reliant on image (it is) and the reality behind your company is inconsistent with that image (it also is) then you need to understand that, and shut the fark up. That dumbass needs to flee any public/media attention and hide behind his large stacks of cash.
 
2013-01-18 04:04:14 PM  

jjorsett: There's nothing fascists hate more than being called fascists.

[i48.tinypic.com image 370x274]


Faschist!
 
2013-01-18 04:07:26 PM  

JosephFinn: Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy,

Unless of course you actually look up what fascism is and know that he's incredibly, completely wrong.


It's a fairly nebulous term and there's no rock solid definition of a fascist government. Some people would describe it as "socialism without democracy." Others would say it happens when private interests commandeer the state and/or merge with it. This latter was a definition shared by Mussolini and FDR. By many common definitions it's when corporations run the government. Rest assured, this would never happen in the USA.
 
2013-01-18 04:08:07 PM  

jigger: JosephFinn: Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy,

Unless of course you actually look up what fascism is and know that he's incredibly, completely wrong.

It's a fairly nebulous term and there's no rock solid definition of a fascist government. Some people would describe it as "socialism without democracy." Others would say it happens when private interests commandeer the state and/or merge with it. This latter was a definition shared by Mussolini and FDR. By many common definitions it's when corporations run the government. Rest assured, this would never happen in the USA.


Never happen here. You're right.
 
2013-01-18 04:08:08 PM  
Using the democratic process to pass laws is not facism. Jesus.
 
2013-01-18 04:09:04 PM  

PanicMan: Using the democratic process to pass laws is not facism. Jesus.


Is it fascism when the democratic process is influenced (or even hijacked) by progressives and corporatists who care only for themselves?
 
2013-01-18 04:10:58 PM  
It sure looks democratic doesn't it? At least on TV.
 
2013-01-18 04:11:41 PM  

jigger: It sure looks democratic doesn't it? At least on TV.


It's really entertaining, too. Constant cat fights. Hell, it's better than reality tv!
 
2013-01-18 04:12:49 PM  

sigdiamond2000: ha-ha-guy: What a farking moron, a large portion of his customers shop there and pay higher prices for two reasons:

1. The food selection, especially meat and seafood.
2. The belief the workers aren't treated like subhuman serfs al al Walmart
(3. The high prices keep the riffraff out.)

I shop there because they have awesome food bars and prepared foods, and they are the only grocery store in the history of humankind who actually understands how to properly run an express checkout lane.

That last point alone is worth paying Whole Foods prices to me.

By the way, I've know some people who have worked at Whole Foods and it actually sounds like an awful place to work. Trader Joe's on the other hand is supposed to be a great place to work.


Yeah, except the subtle racism and when Joe comes in pretending to be a random ethnicity.
 
2013-01-18 04:14:00 PM  

nexxus: All2morrowsparTs: nexxus:
1) It's clear you disagree with him, and that's fine. But it doesn't make his statement less valid. Fascists tend to control lives and take guns. I think that's what he was getting it, though I'm not a mind reader.
2) The way it was stated may have a bit hyperbolic, but the point was valid. By regulating, the state takes more power, and you're left with less.
3) Agreed, mostly.
4) Might not be tripe, though. It is possibly trolly-y and such, but his point may be legitimate. Government doesn't generally do a good job taking care of anyone or anything. And we have a large and growing segment of the population that sits around and does nothing while waiting for checks.
5) I think you've missed his point. He's saying, I believe, that government control is bad and is using a bit of an extreme example to illustrate.
6) Again, you've missed or chosen not to see his point.
7) Government should have *nothing* to do with marriage, period. Marriage is between two people - whether they're man and woman, man and man, or woman and woman. Why should we (collectively, as the government) care a bit who or how people choose to live together? And as for the voting ID issue, I'm a little conflicted: we should ensure that people who vote are citizens and entitled, but I certainly wouldn't want disenfranchise anyone, either.


When you aren't being all ad-hominey, you sound like a reasonable human being.

Most of those original examples are bad and/or slippery slope arguments, which are faulty. Much like the current crop of "if you own a gun, you might kill someone" or "if you drive a car, you might kill someone."

In regards to number 7, the laws regarding marriage ARE fascist. As you said, government should have no say in granting government marriage certificates based on genders (I do believe that churches has the right to say no to granting religious marriages, but I also believe that churches views on homosexuality are stupid and hypocritical).

Also, voting ids are easy to do, but slightly controversial in a big brother sort of way. Just make it so that any person can go to any federal office (that serves the public) and get a free government id. I don't have an issue requiring photo id to prove someone is a citizen, but I do have an issue trying to change the laws during a Presidential election, which results in numerous voters being "accidentally" purged from the voter reels. I actually had to check that I could still vote, because I was nervous I had been purged. If I had been, and hadn't had the time to get it fixed, I would've dropped so many lawsuits on the state of Florida it wouldn't have been funny.
 
2013-01-18 04:15:30 PM  

Rihlsul: Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.


Precisely.

Even sadder is how, like a pavlovian bell, certain key phrases launch people who suffer from Partisan Identity Syndrome (TM) into apoplectics fits of blind rage attacks.
 
2013-01-18 04:16:18 PM  
So the trains aren't lining up to take us away to camp?
 
2013-01-18 04:16:33 PM  
A man who makes his millions ripping people off on supposedly anti-biotic free chickens when his buyers know damned well where they come from. Fark him.
 
2013-01-18 04:19:57 PM  

Wook: I used to avoid it since it was over priced but I really like this guy. Unfortunately I'll have to stomach all of the middle class kids with dreadlocks, Prius's, Obama stickers, in order to shop there.


Think how they suffer from you being there.

/I hope that brought a smile to your face and sent you running to Whole Foods
 
2013-01-18 04:20:05 PM  
If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?
 
2013-01-18 04:21:55 PM  

jigger: Obamacare is Compassionate Fascism. Compascism if you like.


Hurr!
 
2013-01-18 04:22:49 PM  

efgeise: When you aren't being all ad-hominey, you sound like a reasonable human being.

Most of those original examples are bad and/or slippery slope arguments, which are faulty. Much like the current crop of "if you own a gun, you might kill someone" or "if you drive a car, you might kill someone."

In regards to number 7, the laws regarding marriage ARE fascist. As you said, government should have no say in granting government marriage certificates based on genders (I do believe that churches has the right to say no to granting religious marriages, but I also believe that churches views on homosexuality are stupid and hypocritical).

Also, voting ids are easy to do, but slightly controversial in a big brother sort of way. Just make it so that any person can go to any federal office (that serves the public) and get a free government id. I don't have an issue requiring photo id to prove someone is a citizen, but I do have an issue trying to change the laws during a Presidential election, which results in numerous voters being "accidentally" purged from the voter reels. I actually had to check that I could still vote, because I was nervous I had been purged. If I had been, and hadn't had the time to get it fixed, I would've dropped so many lawsuits on the state of Florida it wouldn't have been funny.


Thank you. I like to think I'm reasonable, generally. I was ad-homineming and trolling both because it amuses me to watch everyone get whipped into a frenzy, and because I enjoy the spirited debate that follows.

I agree that some of his arguments (assuming I interpreted them correctly) aren't 'clean', but I have a hard time saying they're wrong.. or even faulty.

On all other points we agree.
 
2013-01-18 04:24:29 PM  
Well, it looks like this asshole doesn't know the definition of at least to words.
 
2013-01-18 04:28:06 PM  
It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.
 
2013-01-18 04:29:01 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.


Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.
 
2013-01-18 04:29:54 PM  

jst3p: Dr. Whoof: Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.

This tree-hugging liberal shops at Kroger, Target and Wal-Mart, because there isn't a Trader Joe's anywhere near me, and Whole Foods is always full of hipsters, and I can't stand hipsters. The prices suck balls too.

Also, this tree-hugging liberal only has so much money to make it through a week.

We choose our battles - where to buy food isn't one I'm willing to fight.

You wont shop at whole foods because of the other people that shop there, but you don't mind the People of Walmart?

[www.dumpaday.com image 620x387]


img203.imageshack.us

Mom?
 
2013-01-18 04:35:48 PM  

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.


The number of people who are religious would indicate that a great many people like being told what to do.
 
2013-01-18 04:37:05 PM  

jst3p: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

The number of people who are religious would indicate that a great many people like being told what to do.


I agree. Ridiculous. I suppose I shouldn't have used 'most' .. good point.
 
2013-01-18 04:40:09 PM  

nexxus: PanicMan: Using the democratic process to pass laws is not facism. Jesus.

Is it fascism when the democratic process is influenced (or even hijacked) by progressives and corporatists who care only for themselves?


No, that is called the democratic process. Pettioning the government is part of the democratic process. While there are extremes to this as shown by the influence of well funded lobbyists, it is part of the process good or bad. and Nice little sneaky ad hominem in the latter part of the question. You know conservatives are truly altruistic and never would they be considered part of the corporatist agenda. I mean look at General Dynamics, total hippies they are.
 
2013-01-18 04:42:17 PM  

lilbjorn: mm'kay?


Came/satisfied/etc.
 
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