If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Fox News)   Whole Foods CEO John Mackey would like all of the tree-hugging liberals who shop at his stores to know that he wasn't being serious when he used the word "fascism" to describe Obamacare   (foxnews.com) divider line 332
    More: Fail, CEO John Mackey, obamacare, means of production, health law, fascists, liberals  
•       •       •

5996 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jan 2013 at 1:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



332 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-01-18 01:38:02 PM
Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"
 
2013-01-18 01:54:23 PM
For several decades after Henry Ford, businessmen knew well enough not to spout off about politics (or religion) that might offend their customers.

It is amusing to watch them re-learn this lesson.
 
2013-01-18 01:54:28 PM
How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?
 
2013-01-18 01:54:44 PM
This is twice now he's made a similar comment. I believe he used the word "socialism" the first time. So yes, he is serious.
 
2013-01-18 01:54:54 PM
Tree-huggers shop at locally owed co-ops but only to supplement the crops they grow in their basement with their pocket mulch.

Soccer moms shop at Whole Foods.
 
2013-01-18 01:55:15 PM
Every suburban housewife that drives a Land Rover is a liberal.
 
2013-01-18 01:55:45 PM
Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.
 
2013-01-18 01:55:52 PM
Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.
 
2013-01-18 01:56:08 PM
Don't care, don't shop there, never will.

Business owners that wear their derpitude on their sleeves don't get my patronage.
 
2013-01-18 01:56:54 PM

GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?


It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy, which is vastly different from spouting off about "Obongos gonna takes mah monies, that's facisms!". Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.
 
2013-01-18 01:57:04 PM
dick dick dick dick

Like how he is proud of selling overpriced shiat to schools though.

Socialism that makes me money is okey dokey.
 
2013-01-18 01:57:28 PM
What a farking moron, a large portion of his customers shop there and pay higher prices for two reasons:

1. The food selection, especially meat and seafood.
2. The belief the workers aren't treated like subhuman serfs al al Walmart
(3. The high prices keep the riffraff out.)

Don't make comments that are going to piss a decent portion of your base.
 
2013-01-18 01:57:51 PM
FTA: He said he was trying to describe ... "the opposite of free-enterprise capitalism."

That isn't much better. Moron.
 
2013-01-18 01:57:55 PM

sigdiamond2000: Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"


Oddly, it was "conservatives" pushing that narrative. Because no real conservative would eat healthy food or something. I'm not sure.
 
2013-01-18 01:57:57 PM

JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.


He does provide healthcare for him employees.

But don't let facts taint a good thrashing post.
 
2013-01-18 01:58:20 PM

Bladel: For several decades after Henry Ford, businessmen knew well enough not to spout off about politics (or religion) that might offend their customers.

It is amusing to watch them re-learn this lesson.


Whole Foods CEO John Mackey Takes Back Fascism Comment

Steve Inskeep interviewed Whole Foods CEO John Mackey on Wednesday and Thursday. Mackey has a new book out called Conscious Capitalism. Mackey used the word "facism" when answering a question about the health care measure.

Stockholders (idk if they have stock) should kick his ass.
 
2013-01-18 01:58:21 PM
Oh, this again. Can we skip all the whathaveyou's and whatdidyou's and go straight to talking about wines again? I've still got a bit of a headache from the bottle I had last night, but man it was yummy.
 
2013-01-18 01:58:21 PM
What a f*ckin moron.
 
2013-01-18 01:58:33 PM
You would think that all of these stalwarts of capitalism would have learned by now that your personal views can have a negative impact on your bottom line if said views are derogatory to large portions of your customer base.

Kind of amusing that they all have to be reminded the hard way that they are not the only game in town, and that their services, while convenient, aren't exactly required.
 
2013-01-18 01:59:01 PM
I would like for him to know that I still think he is kinda of douchey.
 
2013-01-18 01:59:05 PM
He said he was trying to describe "government-controlled health care," or "the opposite of free-enterprise capitalism."


That's a lie. It's not "government controlled". Having some regulations is not "government controlled" does he believe doctors need to be licensed is "fascism" too? Because according to him that's "government control" also. I wish some reporter would actually grow a pair and call people out how make these retarded statements.
 
2013-01-18 01:59:12 PM
My local Whole Foods stopped selling bulk semolina so they can suck it.
 
2013-01-18 02:00:05 PM

GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?


The bottoms of his Birkenstocks are smoking, so there's at least enough for heat transfer.
 
2013-01-18 02:00:07 PM
I will know hold my breath waiting for Fark independents to follow suit


and NOW!
 
2013-01-18 02:01:04 PM

Ivandrago: My local Whole Foods stopped selling bulk semolina so they can suck it.


I always cook my chicken thoroughly so I avoid having that. Don't want another stomach ache....

:D
 
2013-01-18 02:01:07 PM

urbangirl: This is twice now he's made a similar comment. I believe he used the word "socialism" the first time. So yes, he is serious.


If he used the words "socialism" and "fascism" to describe the same policy, then the only thing he is serious about is being seriously ignorant about what words mean.
 
2013-01-18 02:01:26 PM

JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.


BAH HA HA HA!!!  What a visual!  Bowl of dicks... now that's funny.  I don't care who you are...
 
2013-01-18 02:01:47 PM
Whatever. I'm not a liberal but I go in there on occasion to hit the hotbar. Some of the best food I have *ever* had.
 
2013-01-18 02:02:05 PM

Ivandrago: My local Whole Foods stopped selling bulk semolina so they can suck it.


You know who else used to eat semolina?
 
2013-01-18 02:02:06 PM

sigdiamond2000: Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"


Given that as far as I've been aware of it, Whole Food's nickname has always been "whole paycheck"  I think it's target demographic is less liberal hippies and more "self-righteous narcissists who drive BMWS and bored trophy wife soccer moms in Lincoln Navigators", you know the folks who nodded thier heads and muttered "so true" when they heard Romney's infamous 47% remarks

REAL hippies know where the local farmer's market is or have a subscription to a CSA
 
2013-01-18 02:02:16 PM
I actually had a dentist tell me that Obamacare was full control of healthcare because "If government is involved even a little they are fully involved". So I asked him if he was then against government licensing of medical professionals. Yeah he really didn't have an answer for that.
 
2013-01-18 02:02:25 PM
farm8.staticflickr.com

This is how Mommy parks when taking Parker and Emma to pick up Annie's Organic Mac and Cheese.

Typical lib.  Right next to the lib with the Jesus fish.
 
2013-01-18 02:03:11 PM

Rihlsul: It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy...



It's a big stretch.

/he's wrong that it's "fascism"
 
2013-01-18 02:03:22 PM

Magorn: sigdiamond2000: Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"

Given that as far as I've been aware of it, Whole Food's nickname has always been "whole paycheck"  I think it's target demographic is less liberal hippies and more "self-righteous narcissists who drive BMWS and bored trophy wife soccer moms in Lincoln Navigators", you know the folks who nodded thier heads and muttered "so true" when they heard Romney's infamous 47% remarks

REAL hippies know where the local farmer's market is or have a subscription to a CSA


THIS.
 
2013-01-18 02:03:36 PM

fuhfuhfuh: You would think that all of these stalwarts of capitalism would have learned by now that your personal views can have a negative impact on your bottom line if said views are derogatory to large portions of your customer base.

Kind of amusing that they all have to be reminded the hard way that they are not the only game in town, and that their services, while convenient, aren't exactly required.


It doesn't matter how large of your customer base it is. A good capitalist wouldn't say anything that could lose him even one customer. You might lose a customer or two across all stores, or more likely, you've probably got some stores in more liberal areas which will be much harder hit than others, possibly leading to layoffs or in extreme cases, store closures. Any way you slice it this proves his man isn't capable of leading a company and should be fired immediately.
 
2013-01-18 02:04:47 PM
A few too many complaint emails in the old inbox eh, farknut?
 
2013-01-18 02:04:50 PM
Politics and douchery aside, I tried the NW crab cakes from the seafood counter the other day.  They were delicious.

/Yeah, Whole Foods Paycheck is expensive
//Buy all my grocery staples in bunches from QFC/Safeway once every week or two
///Buy myself a treat from Whole Foods once in a while cause it's right on my walk home from work and almost always very tasty
 
2013-01-18 02:04:51 PM

TommyymmoT: Ivandrago: My local Whole Foods stopped selling bulk semolina so they can suck it.

You know who else used to eat semolina?


Why do I want to say Santorum?
 
2013-01-18 02:05:17 PM

ha-ha-guy: What a farking moron, a large portion of his customers shop there and pay higher prices for two reasons:

1. The food selection, especially meat and seafood.
2. The belief the workers aren't treated like subhuman serfs al al Walmart
(3. The high prices keep the riffraff out.)


I shop there because they have awesome food bars and prepared foods, and they are the only grocery store in the history of humankind who actually understands how to properly run an express checkout lane.

That last point alone is worth paying Whole Foods prices to me.

By the way, I've know some people who have worked at Whole Foods and it actually sounds like an awful place to work. Trader Joe's on the other hand is supposed to be a great place to work.
 
2013-01-18 02:05:22 PM

Bladel: For several decades after Henry Ford, businessmen knew well enough not to spout off about politics (or religion) that might offend their customers.

It is amusing to watch them re-learn this lesson.


He's pulling a Dopestrong.
 
2013-01-18 02:05:48 PM

Corvus: He said he was trying to describe "government-controlled health care," or "the opposite of free-enterprise capitalism."


That's a lie. It's not "government controlled". Having some regulations is not "government controlled" does he believe doctors need to be licensed is "fascism" too? Because according to him that's "government control" also. I wish some reporter would actually grow a pair and call people out how make these retarded statements.


I have nothing to add to this.
 
2013-01-18 02:06:01 PM

Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy, which is vastly different from spouting off about "Obongos gonna takes mah monies, that's facisms!". Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.


Accept, of course, it is not the right term.  Regulating a market place is not fascism.  Every western democracy does it.  Or are you saying that all of Europe is Fascist?
 
2013-01-18 02:06:16 PM
Mmmkay, Mr. Mackey.
 
2013-01-18 02:06:23 PM

Voiceofreason01: Rihlsul: It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy...


It's a big stretch.

/he's wrong that it's "fascism"


If people want to see real fascism today you should look at China. We don't talk about it in the US because it makes so much stuff for us but it has turned into a fascist (corporatist) nation economically. Their is a big blurred line between government and private business.
 
2013-01-18 02:06:38 PM

Bladel: For several decades after Henry Ford, businessmen knew well enough not to spout off about politics (or religion) that might offend their customers.

It is amusing to watch them re-learn this lesson.


Protip: sell goods and services to both sides. Maximizes profit.
 
2013-01-18 02:06:42 PM

JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.


That company does provide that benefit.

His argument really boiled down to "something something freedom something something".
 
2013-01-18 02:06:58 PM
My wife isn't really very political but she asked me if I had heard about this story and followed it up with "doesn't this asshole know who shops at his stores?"
 
2013-01-18 02:06:58 PM

Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.


Ah-yup. Plus I can't afford Whole Foods anyway.
 
2013-01-18 02:07:48 PM
It was same interview a few minutes later he says the word may not be totally accurate but let's not let facts get in the way of good fodder for fuax outrage at a successful businessman who employes 1000's. Drive him out of buiness, those workers and consumers shouldn't have to work for a man who believes something other than Obamacare is the Holy Grail of healthcare gaps.
 
2013-01-18 02:07:49 PM

Rapmaster2000:
This is how Mommy parks when taking Parker and Emma to pick up Annie's Organic Mac and Cheese.

Typical lib.  Right next to the lib with the Jesus fish.


YOU BEST NOT BE DISSIN' ANNIE'S MAC N CHEESE, BRO

/I'll fight you
//or that was sarcasm and im just really stupid today
 
2013-01-18 02:08:06 PM
If you actually listened to him on the radio talk about this, he was very serious about it. This guy has gone full retard. Owners and CEOs really need to get the hint that involving politics with your business is almost always going to cause you a net loss of customers. In any case, this guy went full retard, and ensured that I will never shop at a Whole Foods again.
 
2013-01-18 02:08:10 PM
"who USED to shop at his store".

Used to.

That's the only reason he cam out with a comment. Otherwise, he would be in the backroom having money fights with Smithers.
 
2013-01-18 02:08:11 PM
It is closer to fascism than socialism, yet he backpedals. And I thought we were making progress.
 
2013-01-18 02:08:43 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.

He does provide healthcare for him employees.

But don't let facts taint a good thrashing post.


I said, "Want"... and 70 to 75 percent of them do. Fark the other 25-30%, eh?
 
2013-01-18 02:08:50 PM

Rapmaster2000: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 640x426]

This is how Mommy parks when taking Parker and Emma to pick up Annie's Organic Mac and Cheese.

Typical lib.  Right next to the lib with the Jesus fish.


Naw, they'd back in and park so they can exit out of their sliding door, but the car with the swing door has to go in the passanger's side.
 
2013-01-18 02:09:29 PM
"Mackey continued to argue that the new system ...will not be as effective as a system in which the government is less involved. "Competition forces business to improve and get better," Mackey said in an earlier Fox News interview, saying "bad regulations" are hurting."

Yes, because all that free market competition in insurance didn't get us to this point of failure in the first place, it's all because of those darn 'regulations'.

/I was in the hospital about two years ago and had a hospital water pitcher
//It was a bargain, and only showed up on my hospital bill as a $35 charge for my insurance company
//not part of the problem at all
 
2013-01-18 02:09:50 PM

LesterB: Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.

Ah-yup. Plus I can't afford Whole Foods anyway.


and have you had those Trader Joe's fried macaroni and cheese ball appetizers? Keep the defib handy but damn they're good.
 
2013-01-18 02:10:32 PM
I keep thinking about WFs fried chicken... mmmMmmmm....
 
2013-01-18 02:11:02 PM

Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.


This tree-hugging liberal shops at Kroger, Target and Wal-Mart, because there isn't a Trader Joe's anywhere near me, and Whole Foods is always full of hipsters, and I can't stand hipsters. The prices suck balls too.

Also, this tree-hugging liberal only has so much money to make it through a week.

We choose our battles - where to buy food isn't one I'm willing to fight.
 
2013-01-18 02:11:24 PM

Uncle Bester: Don't care, don't shop there, never will.

Business owners that wear their derpitude on their sleeves don't get my patronage.


So as a hipster you never shopped there because his derpitude was so evident that you were boycotting him before it was even in the news?

How have so many people gotten to the point that leads them to believe the purpose of a business isn't to provide a product or service to consumers but to provide jobs and healthcare to employees?

Farking Hipster Buggy Whip factories closing to avoid Obamacare!
 
2013-01-18 02:11:29 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com

Universal health care is bad mm'kay?
 
2013-01-18 02:11:52 PM
I liked the "Should the debt ceiling be raised?" poll off to the side. Shockingly enough, ~93% of Fox News readers either do not want the ceiling raised under any circumstances, or only raised as part of a broader deal on spending cuts. We all know that FN viewers are the best infromed, so I guess maybe we really shouldn't honor our financial obligations.
 
2013-01-18 02:12:01 PM
If I truly had to vote my conscience with my wallet, I'd probably starve to death while naked and shelterless.

If I were a stockholder, I'd insist that folks like this or Papa John's chairman would just shut the hell up.
 
2013-01-18 02:12:17 PM
well, we have several factors that match with fascism
but we have destroyed any national identity
heck, even declaring a national language is met with calls of racism and zenophobia

I understand that it's frustrating for a business to be forced to pay for,
by government decree
 something that already exists/the employee should be paying for themselves
if they want the better stuff.

but it ain't fascist as far as I am able to understand the word
 
2013-01-18 02:12:19 PM

HotWingConspiracy: sigdiamond2000: Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"

Oddly, it was "conservatives" pushing that narrative. Because no real conservative would eat healthy food or something. I'm not sure.


I believe it's related to the idea that healthy eating is a pussy thing, and all pussies are liberals.

Real men eat shiat food. You've probably seen that meme around here.
 
2013-01-18 02:12:21 PM

The Angry Hand of God: If you actually listened to him on the radio talk about this, he was very serious about it. This guy has gone full retard. Owners and CEOs really need to get the hint that involving politics with your business is almost always going to cause you a net loss of customers. In any case, this guy went full retard, and ensured that I will never shop at a Whole Foods again.


He's a libertarian, so I sure he is OK with the customer net loss/gain his company sees from his statements.
 
2013-01-18 02:12:55 PM
I thought Obamacare was corporatism flavored with socialism covered in a creamy progressive(r) reduction.

Have I been shopping at the wrong overpriced ideology market?
 
2013-01-18 02:13:07 PM

sigdiamond2000: Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"


I think it's the new "atheism is a religion."
 
2013-01-18 02:13:48 PM

GT_bike: How have so many people gotten to the point that leads them to believe the purpose of a business isn't to provide a product or service to consumers but to provide jobs and healthcare to employees?


The same way so many people have gotten to the point they believe that the purpose of a business isn't to provide a product or service to consumers, but to line the pockets of the upper management and provide golden parachutes when they run the companies into the ground.
 
2013-01-18 02:14:19 PM
Let me see if I have this correct: CEO's cut employees hours so they cannot get insurance and the employees don't make enough money ro buy it on their own. CEO's dont want to pay more in taxes that would cover everyone to have health care. The CEO's have excellent health care.
 
2013-01-18 02:14:33 PM

Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.


I'm not a tree-hugging liberal or a complete sucker who will buy food at exorbitant prices just because some marketing director slapped a sticker on the package saying "All Natural!" or "Organic", so I don't care either way.
 
2013-01-18 02:14:33 PM
He argued that in fascism, "the government doesn't own the means of production but they do control it,"

So I'm sure he refuses to sell anything made in that fascist state called the People's Republic of China. I mean, he hates fascists so much.

/maybe it's just the black fascists he hates so much. not so much the yellow ones.
 
2013-01-18 02:15:06 PM

Rapmaster2000: HotWingConspiracy: sigdiamond2000: Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"

Oddly, it was "conservatives" pushing that narrative. Because no real conservative would eat healthy food or something. I'm not sure.

I believe it's related to the idea that healthy eating is a pussy thing, and all pussies are liberals.

Real men eat shiat food. You've probably seen that meme around here.


Put down that quinoa and arugula salad and eat a double bacon cheeseburger for God's sake, you farking pussy.
 
2013-01-18 02:15:07 PM

azmoviez: If I truly had to vote my conscience with my wallet, I'd probably starve to death while naked and shelterless.

If I were a stockholder, I'd insist that folks like this or Papa John's chairman would just shut the hell up.


you can probably shop at Whole Foods with a clear conscience. Despite Mackey's ridiculous hyperbole, they treat their workers pretty well
 
2013-01-18 02:15:27 PM
Thanks Obama!
 
2013-01-18 02:15:34 PM
"This is what Switzerland does and I think we would be much better off copying that system than where we are currently headed in the United States," he said. '

What the fark?

Healthcare in Switzerland
Healthcare in Switzerland is universal[1] and is regulated by the Federal Health Insurance Act of 1994 (Krankenversicherungsgesetz - KVG). Health insurance is compulsory for all persons residing in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country). International civil servants, members of permanent missions and their family members are exempted from compulsory health insurance. They can, however, apply to join the Swiss health insurance system, within six months of taking up residence in the country.

...

Swiss are required to purchase basic health insurance, which covers a range of treatments detailed in the Federal Act. It is therefore the same throughout the country and avoids double standards in healthcare. Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans.[1]


He has no farking idea what he is talking about. It's basically Obamacare but Obamacare allows them to make a profit.
 
2013-01-18 02:16:14 PM

Rapmaster2000: HotWingConspiracy: sigdiamond2000: Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"

Oddly, it was "conservatives" pushing that narrative. Because no real conservative would eat healthy food or something. I'm not sure.

I believe it's related to the idea that healthy eating is a pussy thing, and all pussies are liberals.

Real men eat shiat food. You've probably seen that meme around here.


IN YER FACE MOOCHELLE
 
2013-01-18 02:16:16 PM
Mackey's problem wasn't that he used the word 'fascism' or 'socialism' - its that he quoted Thatcher.
 
2013-01-18 02:16:41 PM
Whole Foods is good for gluten free products which my kids need but god is it expensive.
 
2013-01-18 02:16:57 PM

Rihlsul: It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy,


You know what are also common policies/attributes of fascism?  Patriotism and exceptionalism.

You know all those people with flag pins on their lapels saying that America is the greatest?  Yup, all fascists.
 
2013-01-18 02:17:16 PM

Carn: fuhfuhfuh: You would think that all of these stalwarts of capitalism would have learned by now that your personal views can have a negative impact on your bottom line if said views are derogatory to large portions of your customer base.

Kind of amusing that they all have to be reminded the hard way that they are not the only game in town, and that their services, while convenient, aren't exactly required.

It doesn't matter how large of your customer base it is. A good capitalist wouldn't say anything that could lose him even one customer. You might lose a customer or two across all stores, or more likely, you've probably got some stores in more liberal areas which will be much harder hit than others, possibly leading to layoffs or in extreme cases, store closures. Any way you slice it this proves his man isn't capable of leading a company and should be fired immediately.


A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

You clearly have no idea what capitalism is, or what you're doing to the world. God help us all.
 
2013-01-18 02:17:30 PM

Corvus: He has no farking idea what he is talking about. It's basically Obamacare but Obamacare allows them to make a profit.


He's a passionate defender of what he believes Swiss health care to be.
 
2013-01-18 02:18:41 PM

GT_bike:

How have so many people gotten to the point that leads them to believe the purpose of a business isn't to provide a product or service to consumers but to provide jobs and healthcare to employees


People also believe that businesses shouldn't use child labor in third-world countries. While both things are legal, it's considered good marketing to do neither. Good marketing drives sales. You'd be a fool to discount it as a shareholder of a firm selling consumer discretionary items on the slim margins of the grocery business.

Though, if you create childishly simplistic dichotomies as a way of "arguing", then you probably already are a fool.
 
2013-01-18 02:18:58 PM

Corvus: "This is what Switzerland does and I think we would be much better off copying that system than where we are currently headed in the United States," he said. '

What the fark?


*not intended to be a factual statement

Idiots like this guy just randomly pick a country name and cite it, usually because they forget there's a thing called the internet that people can use to fact check them. Also because no reporter has the balls to challenge them and prove them wrong. Might hurt their feelings or something.
 
2013-01-18 02:19:47 PM

nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.


But you just said he expresses himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so.
 
2013-01-18 02:21:29 PM

Ivandrago: My local Whole Foods stopped selling bulk semolina so they can suck it.


Time to go home. I read "semolina" as "sensimilla". Guess how I'm going to be enjoying the final episode of Fringe tonight.
 
2013-01-18 02:21:43 PM
He did this before and I stopped shopping at WF. I discovered the local farmers' markets and have not gone back. I am fortunate to be in an area where the farmers' markets are absolutely amazing. The only things I can't get there are things I can get at the family owned Mexican grocery near my house (toothpaste, T.P., milk)
 
2013-01-18 02:22:42 PM

HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

But you just said he expresses himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so.


Yes, and I said he 'caved' .. we don't know why, specifically, but clearly he did. What's your point?
 
2013-01-18 02:23:52 PM

nexxus: HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

But you just said he expresses himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so.

Yes, and I said he 'caved' .. we don't know why, specifically, but clearly he did. What's your point?


The point is highlighted.
 
2013-01-18 02:24:04 PM
It's called Romney speak...

Here's an example:
Today in person: "Hey man, go fark your mother!!!"
Tomorrow on Facebook: "What I meant to say is your mom is an attractive woman."

Today in person: "I hate black people!"
Tomorrow on Facebook: "I meant to say hate arsonists who are covered in black soot."

Today in person: "I like to rape little boys!"
Tomorrow on Facebook: "I meant to say I like to rape little girls; I am not gay. Not that there is anything wrong with that!"
 
2013-01-18 02:24:18 PM
The fascists had a functioning national care system that provided damned good treatment to everyone they weren't exterminating.

Obamacare is a number of reasonable regulatory tweeks and a forcible wealth extraction organ serving the insurance industry.

They aren't the same.
 
2013-01-18 02:24:22 PM

nexxus: HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

But you just said he expresses himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so.

Yes, and I said he 'caved' .. we don't know why, specifically, but clearly he did. What's your point?


That his "cave" serves his long term interests. So you really shouldn't think it's a shame, he's being a good capitalist by your own terms.
 
2013-01-18 02:25:53 PM

Rapmaster2000: nexxus: HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

But you just said he expresses himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so.

Yes, and I said he 'caved' .. we don't know why, specifically, but clearly he did. What's your point?

The point is highlighted.


As I said, we don't know why he caved, specifically. I'm sure you can think of a few reasons. Political backlash? Who knows.
 
2013-01-18 02:26:04 PM
He argued that in fascism, "the government doesn't own the means of production but they do control it,"


Since the experts can't agree what fascist economics is, I would suggest that this guy is completely off-base. Any political system that can:

1. Nationalize any industry or business
2. Threaten to nationalize any industry or business unless it bends to the will of the state
3. Install board members and officers in otherwise privately-held businesses

pretty much controls the means of production.

In short, it's my opinion this guy is an idiot who is trying to save his business from a strong public reaction to his previous idiotic statement.

YMMV.
 
2013-01-18 02:26:17 PM

nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

You clearly have no idea what capitalism is, or what you're doing to the world. God help us all.


Straw man, straw man
Serving up derp as only a straw man can
Making false claims, killing them good
Straw man
 
2013-01-18 02:26:30 PM

odinsposse: Tree-huggers shop at locally owed co-ops but only to supplement the crops they grow in their basement with their pocket mulch.

Soccer moms shop at Whole Foods.


They're yoga moms, not soccer moms, and while they tend to be biatchy, they definately have...assets.
 
2013-01-18 02:26:49 PM
Right.

Whole Foods employees don't have health care, meaning the guy making the sandwiches may have a nasty infection, but no medical insurance to get coverage or sick days to stay home and get better.

It's good to know what stores to avoid for my own health.

Want the Flu? Go to Whole Foods!
 
2013-01-18 02:27:23 PM

JohnnyC: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.

He does provide healthcare for him employees.

But don't let facts taint a good thrashing post.

I said, "Want"... and 70 to 75 percent of them do. Fark the other 25-30%, eh?


Moron. His company provided healthcare before Obamacare was even passed.
Your response makes absolutely no sense, and is based solely upon your impulsive distaste for someone that does not hold the same political beliefs as yourself.
So, you know the drill. Go eat a bowl of dicks.
 
2013-01-18 02:27:54 PM

Corvus: He has no farking idea what he is talking about. It's basically Obamacare but Obamacare allhttp://www.fark.com/entertainment/ows them to make a profit.


I...uh...hmm...maybe he's a gun nut too and has a blind hard-on for the Swiss already without knowing anything else about their country.
 
2013-01-18 02:28:09 PM

HotWingConspiracy: sigdiamond2000: Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"

Oddly, it was "conservatives" pushing that narrative. Because no real conservative would eat healthy food or something. I'm not sure.


I think it's residual animosity towards "green" technology/products and other progressive things that Fox has told them to hate. The "organic movement" is liberal territory for most people. Sure, rural farmers are the originals, but who farms these days? It's those liberal elitists that say Wal-Mart isn't good enough for them.

The conservatives shopping at Whole Foods are a different group from the people railing against green energy, mainly that one group profits from the other group fighting their wars for them. (actual and metaphorical)
 
2013-01-18 02:28:26 PM

halleyscomet: Right.

Whole Foods employees don't have health care, meaning the guy making the sandwiches may have a nasty infection, but no medical insurance to get coverage or sick days to stay home and get better.

It's good to know what stores to avoid for my own health.

Want the Flu? Go to Whole Foods!


in your rush to trot out this recycled silliness, you ignored an important item. Most Whole Food employees do have health care and do get paid sick days.
 
2013-01-18 02:29:23 PM
xaratherus - Yes, because all that free market competition in insurance didn't get us to this point of failure in the first place, it's all because of those darn 'regulations'.

/I was in the hospital about two years ago and had a hospital water pitcher
//It was a bargain, and only showed up on my hospital bill as a $35 charge for my insurance company
//not part of the problem at all


And I have nothing more to add. Done here.
 
2013-01-18 02:30:48 PM

HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

But you just said he expresses himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so.

Yes, and I said he 'caved' .. we don't know why, specifically, but clearly he did. What's your point?

That his "cave" serves his long term interests. So you really shouldn't think it's a shame, he's being a good capitalist by your own terms.


Maybe his job/position was threatened. We all know you liberal pansies can't handle alternate viewpoints or have a rational discussion, despite your professions of openness and tolerance. We don't really know why he caved - can only speculate.

He certainly believes what he said originally.
 
2013-01-18 02:31:27 PM
i think trying to give heathcare is the opposite of fascism.

but you racist cracker meatheads can't wrap your tiny minds around the fact that fascism is when you blame all your problems on some defenseless minority of people (jews, blacks, mexicans, gay, mentally ill) and then you start a pogrom to demonize these minorities. This conveniently shelters the governments (Hitler, Bush, Obama) from their atrocities by blaming it on the defenseless, while *BONUS ROUND* you get to destroy the those very minorities that oppose you, one by one, cleanly.
 
2013-01-18 02:32:35 PM

Carn: nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

You clearly have no idea what capitalism is, or what you're doing to the world. God help us all.

Straw man, straw man
Serving up derp as only a straw man can
Making false claims, killing them good
Straw man


Amusing, but there's no straw man there. Try having a rational discussion with someone who might disagree with you.. or even .. *gasp* .. use terms you've decided are offensive, rather than simply dismiss what they're saying. It'll serve you well in life.
 
2013-01-18 02:33:26 PM

nexxus: That his "cave" serves his long term interests. So you really shouldn't think it's a shame, he's being a good capitalist by your own terms.

Maybe his job/position was threatened. We all know you liberal pansies can't handle alternate viewpoints or have a rational discussion, despite your professions of openness and tolerance. We don't really know why he caved - can only speculate.

He certainly believes what he said originally.


Ad-hominem man, Ad-hominem man
Ad-hominem man meets Straw man
They don't fight
They are good friends
Ad-hominem man
 
2013-01-18 02:33:34 PM
I don't like to come on here and complain, but obamacare increased the cost of my insured back rubs,
 
2013-01-18 02:33:59 PM

Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.


This alway's amused me about "Hippies" and Trader Joe's (AKA Aldi's).The Aldi brothers of Germany who own Trader Joes and Aldi generic discount stores are some shady capatalists themselves.
 
2013-01-18 02:34:18 PM
Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.
 
2013-01-18 02:35:07 PM

Carn: nexxus: That his "cave" serves his long term interests. So you really shouldn't think it's a shame, he's being a good capitalist by your own terms.

Maybe his job/position was threatened. We all know you liberal pansies can't handle alternate viewpoints or have a rational discussion, despite your professions of openness and tolerance. We don't really know why he caved - can only speculate.

He certainly believes what he said originally.

Ad-hominem man, Ad-hominem man
Ad-hominem man meets Straw man
They don't fight
They are good friends
Ad-hominem man


That was an ad-hominem. Good catch.

Then again, maybe I'm just pointing out that you're delicate like pretty little flowers.
 
2013-01-18 02:35:35 PM
"I need a new word or phrase to describe the state of health care now because it is something that I, like all folks entrusted with the wellbeing of a team, grapple with daily in this era,"

Let's see, how about fair, equitable, universal, resonable, cost-effective? Health care should be a right of every citizen around the world, not just for the rich and well employed.
 
2013-01-18 02:35:53 PM

halleyscomet: Whole Foods employees don't have health care,


No, anyone working over 30hrs/week gets health care. According to Mackey, that's about 70 (75?) percent of his workforce. I don't know how great their plan is, but he said their deductible is $3000, which seems insanely high to me. I think mine is terrible at $1000.
 
2013-01-18 02:36:22 PM
Competition forces business to improve and get better

That really hasn't worked so well for insurance specifically and healthcare in general. The bureaucrats have already won. And they're winning again with this whole mess.

There should be no corporate profit in providing basic healthcare. Not in self pay, not in government pay, nowhere. There's no public transit option. You can have the Cavalier or the BMW but if you don't want the Cavalier you'll pay for it anyway. Ostensibly to pay for someone else's BMW. Until they fix the profiteering, it will stay broken.

Jackasses.
 
2013-01-18 02:36:54 PM

nexxus: HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

But you just said he expresses himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so.

Yes, and I said he 'caved' .. we don't know why, specifically, but clearly he did. What's your point?

That his "cave" serves his long term interests. So you really shouldn't think it's a shame, he's being a good capitalist by your own terms.

Maybe his job/position was threatened.


His job as owner of the company was threatened?

We all know you liberal pansies can't handle alternate viewpoints or have a rational discussion, despite your professions of openness and tolerance.

This sounds rational.

We don't really know why he caved - can only speculate.

Hmm? You know why, you said so already. " A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so." So very eloquent.

He certainly believes what he said originally.

You're calling this man a liar?
 
2013-01-18 02:37:48 PM

Labrat407: "I need a new word or phrase to describe the state of health care now because it is something that I, like all folks entrusted with the wellbeing of a team, grapple with daily in this era,"

Let's see, how about fair, equitable, universal, resonable, cost-effective? Health care should be a right of every citizen around the world, not just for the rich and well employed.


Only about one of those words applies to healthcare today.
 
2013-01-18 02:37:48 PM

Labrat407: "I need a new word or phrase to describe the state of health care now because it is something that I, like all folks entrusted with the wellbeing of a team, grapple with daily in this era,"

Let's see, how about fair, equitable, universal, resonable, cost-effective? Health care should be a right of every citizen around the world, not just for the rich and well employed.


So should be a good meal, a good job, the ability to communicate (telephone and internet service), to travel (cars, boats, airplanes). Where does it end? Who pays for it? You may want to take care of everyone, but I don't - and to force your beliefs on me is wrong.
 
2013-01-18 02:38:18 PM

Carn: nexxus: That his "cave" serves his long term interests. So you really shouldn't think it's a shame, he's being a good capitalist by your own terms.

Maybe his job/position was threatened. We all know you liberal pansies can't handle alternate viewpoints or have a rational discussion, despite your professions of openness and tolerance. We don't really know why he caved - can only speculate.

He certainly believes what he said originally.

Ad-hominem man, Ad-hominem man
Ad-hominem man meets Straw man
They don't fight
They are good friends
Ad-hominem man


Straw man, straw man
lives his life with his head in the sand
What's he like, he's very boring...
Straw man...
 
2013-01-18 02:38:20 PM

sigdiamond2000: ha-ha-guy: What a farking moron, a large portion of his customers shop there and pay higher prices for two reasons:

1. The food selection, especially meat and seafood.
2. The belief the workers aren't treated like subhuman serfs al al Walmart
(3. The high prices keep the riffraff out.)

I shop there because they have awesome food bars and prepared foods, and they are the only grocery store in the history of humankind who actually understands how to properly run an express checkout lane.

That last point alone is worth paying Whole Foods prices to me.

By the way, I've know some people who have worked at Whole Foods and it actually sounds like an awful place to work. Trader Joe's on the other hand is supposed to be a great place to work.


It certainly is for a retail job. They pay very well and offer damn good health insurance to part-time employees. Some of the cushier aspects have gone away due to cost-cutting, but it is a rather pleasurable place to work. Many of my co-workers are people working their way through grad school, or like me, college grads who need a second job to pay off loans, or are biding their time until they find a career. I've known some people who jumped-ship over to Whole Foods and made a nice go of it. They seem to like it there. I don't shop there because I can buy the same shiat for less where I work.

/end csb.
 
2013-01-18 02:38:30 PM

HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: HotWingConspiracy: nexxus: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does. Shame he caved.

But you just said he expresses himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so.

Yes, and I said he 'caved' .. we don't know why, specifically, but clearly he did. What's your point?

That his "cave" serves his long term interests. So you really shouldn't think it's a shame, he's being a good capitalist by your own terms.

Maybe his job/position was threatened.

His job as owner of the company was threatened?

We all know you liberal pansies can't handle alternate viewpoints or have a rational discussion, despite your professions of openness and tolerance.

This sounds rational.

We don't really know why he caved - can only speculate.

Hmm? You know why, you said so already. " A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so." So very eloquent.

He certainly believes what he said originally.

You're calling this man a liar?


Stop being pedantic. It's not useful.
 
2013-01-18 02:38:48 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole?


What is this government dole you speak of, and when will it arrive?
 
2013-01-18 02:39:05 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.


You really, really should avail yourself of Obamacare and go get you some mental health help from an expert.
 
2013-01-18 02:39:17 PM
Competition forces business to improve and get better

ONLY if the consumer has perfect information... which they don't.
 
2013-01-18 02:39:39 PM
It's called "doing a ratner", or having the 'ratners touch' (opposite of 'the Midas touch')

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ratner%27s%20touch&def i d=4333012
 
2013-01-18 02:40:04 PM

xaratherus: "Mackey continued to argue that the new system ...will not be as effective as a system in which the government is less involved. "Competition forces business to improve and get better," Mackey said in an earlier Fox News interview, saying "bad regulations" are hurting."

Yes, because all that free market competition in insurance didn't get us to this point of failure in the first place, it's all because of those darn 'regulations'.

/I was in the hospital about two years ago and had a hospital water pitcher
//It was a bargain, and only showed up on my hospital bill as a $35 charge for my insurance company
//not part of the problem at all


and I'm sure your evil profit minded insurance company actually paid the $35? I highly doubt they did. You should call them and ask if they paid the full amount or told the hospital to eat a bowl of...anyway seriously learn how things work.

Also, the special protections insurance companies got by barring portability meant that each state only had a few insurance options. Lastly the mandates requiring certain coverages by all insurance providers has increased costs. I don't have a problem with chiropractic, accupuncture and the like per se but if elective proceedures and treatments have to be covered then the cost goes up. Having the option to buy insurance that only covers actual medical needs vs. boob jobs and facelifts means that coverage would likely be less per month. But states are mandating insurance companies keep adding to their list of required coverage. Pre-existing conditions was the best thing Obamacare adressed, portability and options to make it legal to have insurance that only covered neccesary medical vs. elective treatments.

If people really think Obamacare isn't already poised to be increasingly expensive all I can say is I hope you fianlly get to pet a unicorn in utopia.
 
2013-01-18 02:40:21 PM

odinsposse: Tree-huggers shop at locally owed co-ops but only to supplement the crops they grow in their basement with their pocket mulch.

Soccer moms shop at Whole Foods.



^^^THIS^^^
 
2013-01-18 02:40:32 PM

nexxus: Labrat407: "I need a new word or phrase to describe the state of health care now because it is something that I, like all folks entrusted with the wellbeing of a team, grapple with daily in this era,"

Let's see, how about fair, equitable, universal, resonable, cost-effective? Health care should be a right of every citizen around the world, not just for the rich and well employed.

So should be a good meal, a good job, the ability to communicate (telephone and internet service), to travel (cars, boats, airplanes). Where does it end? Who pays for it? You may want to take care of everyone, but I don't - and to force your beliefs on me is wrong.


I don't believe in paying for corporate welfare or bullshiat wars, yet I do it every day. So suck it up and deal with living in our Republic.
 
2013-01-18 02:40:36 PM

ghare: WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.

You really, really should avail yourself of Obamacare and go get you some mental health help from an expert.


I'm sure you'll agree that at least *one* of you needs help.

Have you considered that maybe it's you?
 
2013-01-18 02:42:16 PM

ghare: nexxus: Labrat407: "I need a new word or phrase to describe the state of health care now because it is something that I, like all folks entrusted with the wellbeing of a team, grapple with daily in this era,"

Let's see, how about fair, equitable, universal, resonable, cost-effective? Health care should be a right of every citizen around the world, not just for the rich and well employed.

So should be a good meal, a good job, the ability to communicate (telephone and internet service), to travel (cars, boats, airplanes). Where does it end? Who pays for it? You may want to take care of everyone, but I don't - and to force your beliefs on me is wrong.

I don't believe in paying for corporate welfare or bullshiat wars, yet I do it every day. So suck it up and deal with living in our Republic.


Well, on that we agree.. we shouldn't be paying 'corporate welfare' or bullshiat wars.

Let's start cleaning things up there and see how we come out before we start forcing more people to do more things at gunpoint. Yes, that really *is* what it is.
 
2013-01-18 02:42:41 PM

nexxus: ghare: WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.

You really, really should avail yourself of Obamacare and go get you some mental health help from an expert.

I'm sure you'll agree that at least *one* of you needs help.

Have you considered that maybe it's you?


Yes, but I went, and they said "no."

You try it. I bet you get hauled away and institutionalized, because you are currently hallucinating.
 
2013-01-18 02:42:46 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: "who USED to shop at his store".

Used to.

That's the only reason he cam out with a comment. Otherwise, he would be in the backroom having money fights with Smithers.


Cam out like a worn Phillips.
 
2013-01-18 02:43:00 PM

GT_bike: It was same interview a few minutes later he says the word may not be totally accurate but let's not let facts get in the way of good fodder for fuax outrage at a successful businessman who employes 1000's. Drive him out of buiness, those workers and consumers shouldn't have to work for a man who believes something other than Obamacare is the Holy Grail of healthcare gaps.


So I see you are a prime candidate to be a beaten spouse.
 
2013-01-18 02:44:07 PM

stonicus: Competition forces business to improve and get better

ONLY if the consumer has perfect information... which they don't.


Wrong - reasonably good information works, too.
 
2013-01-18 02:44:24 PM

ghare: nexxus: ghare: WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.

You really, really should avail yourself of Obamacare and go get you some mental health help from an expert.

I'm sure you'll agree that at least *one* of you needs help.

Have you considered that maybe it's you?

Yes, but I went, and they said "no."

You try it. I bet you get hauled away and institutionalized, because you are currently hallucinating.


That's fairly aggressive. I'm sorry you're so threatened by differing points of view. Scary, actually.
 
2013-01-18 02:44:52 PM
How is "Obamacare" fascism?

Somebody needs to get the morons who say stuff like that a goddamn dictionary
 
2013-01-18 02:44:57 PM

Labrat407: "I need a new word or phrase to describe the state of health care now because it is something that I, like all folks entrusted with the wellbeing of a team, grapple with daily in this era,"

Let's see, how about fair, equitable, universal, resonable, cost-effective? Health care should be a right of every citizen around the world, not just for the rich and well employed.


Lots of things are rights - that doesn't mean you don't have to pay for them. Food is a right, but you've still got to buy it.
 
2013-01-18 02:45:13 PM
Hewlett-Packard is one of the greatest countries ever created in America.

-Whole Foods CEO John Mackey
 
2013-01-18 02:46:02 PM

JasonThomasX: How is "Obamacare" fascism?

Somebody needs to get the morons who say stuff like that a goddamn dictionary


You're so smart. I bet you read the articles and what he said, even.
 
2013-01-18 02:46:09 PM

nexxus: ghare: nexxus: Labrat407: "I need a new word or phrase to describe the state of health care now because it is something that I, like all folks entrusted with the wellbeing of a team, grapple with daily in this era,"

Let's see, how about fair, equitable, universal, resonable, cost-effective? Health care should be a right of every citizen around the world, not just for the rich and well employed.

So should be a good meal, a good job, the ability to communicate (telephone and internet service), to travel (cars, boats, airplanes). Where does it end? Who pays for it? You may want to take care of everyone, but I don't - and to force your beliefs on me is wrong.

I don't believe in paying for corporate welfare or bullshiat wars, yet I do it every day. So suck it up and deal with living in our Republic.

Well, on that we agree.. we shouldn't be paying 'corporate welfare' or bullshiat wars.

Let's start cleaning things up there and see how we come out before we start forcing more people to do more things at gunpoint. Yes, that really *is* what it is.


All laws are that. And frankly, sir, I am fine with forcing you to contribute to providing for the health of your fellow citizens, because it appears you're a person who wants all the benefits of living in a civilized society without having to pay for any of it. In other words, a sociopath.
 
2013-01-18 02:46:30 PM

Krieghund: odinsposse: Tree-huggers shop at locally owed co-ops but only to supplement the crops they grow in their basement with their pocket mulch.

Soccer moms shop at Whole Foods.

They're yoga moms, not soccer moms, and while they tend to be biatchy, they definately have...assets.


Heh. I'm pretty sure hot milfs in yoga pants are why most men don't mind going grocery shopping at whole foods.
 
2013-01-18 02:47:00 PM
Freedom not only isn't free, my American friends, but the cost is about three years of life when viewed from this side of the border.

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details/health/life-expectancy.aspx

I think your tornado deaths are pretty balanced by our "infarction while snow shovelling" deaths.
 
2013-01-18 02:47:47 PM

nexxus: ghare: nexxus: ghare: WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.

You really, really should avail yourself of Obamacare and go get you some mental health help from an expert.

I'm sure you'll agree that at least *one* of you needs help.

Have you considered that maybe it's you?

Yes, but I went, and they said "no."

You try it. I bet you get hauled away and institutionalized, because you are currently hallucinating.

That's fairly aggressive. I'm sorry you're so threatened by differing points of view. Scary, actually.


Insanity and lies are not "a different point of view."
 
2013-01-18 02:47:58 PM

nexxus: ghare: nexxus: ghare: WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.

You really, really should avail yourself of Obamacare and go get you some mental health help from an expert.

I'm sure you'll agree that at least *one* of you needs help.

Have you considered that maybe it's you?

Yes, but I went, and they said "no."

You try it. I bet you get hauled away and institutionalized, because you are currently hallucinating.

That's fairly aggressive. I'm sorry you're so threatened by differing points of view. Scary, actually.


What, you can dish it out but can't take it? You've threadshiat all over the place with strawmen and direct ad-hominem attacks to myself and others in the thread. You don't even have the intelligence to be amused at the unintentional irony of your plea for rational discussion. Unless you're just trolling, which is always a possibility here.
 
2013-01-18 02:49:01 PM

ghare: nexxus: ghare: nexxus: Labrat407: "I need a new word or phrase to describe the state of health care now because it is something that I, like all folks entrusted with the wellbeing of a team, grapple with daily in this era,"

Let's see, how about fair, equitable, universal, resonable, cost-effective? Health care should be a right of every citizen around the world, not just for the rich and well employed.

So should be a good meal, a good job, the ability to communicate (telephone and internet service), to travel (cars, boats, airplanes). Where does it end? Who pays for it? You may want to take care of everyone, but I don't - and to force your beliefs on me is wrong.

I don't believe in paying for corporate welfare or bullshiat wars, yet I do it every day. So suck it up and deal with living in our Republic.

Well, on that we agree.. we shouldn't be paying 'corporate welfare' or bullshiat wars.

Let's start cleaning things up there and see how we come out before we start forcing more people to do more things at gunpoint. Yes, that really *is* what it is.

All laws are that. And frankly, sir, I am fine with forcing you to contribute to providing for the health of your fellow citizens, because it appears you're a person who wants all the benefits of living in a civilized society without having to pay for any of it. In other words, a sociopath.


You have no idea who I am or what I believe, other than I feel it's inappropriate to force anyone to do anything. I'm all for punishing those that directly harm others, but I would never..could never.. hold a gun on you and tell you to give me your money, which is what you're advocating.
 
2013-01-18 02:49:12 PM
'Back in 75 I would have said I admired musicians, The Beatles, etc... I was young, I had a much more superficial view of the world back then.'

-Whole Foods CEO John Mackey
 
2013-01-18 02:50:32 PM
Good! I'm tired of going to Whole Foods and having to weave my way through the mass of shopping karts these liberals manage to leave right in the middle of an aisle, while they wander off to sort through the organic bean sprouts.

I love playing shopping kart demolition derby at Whole Foods!
 
2013-01-18 02:50:58 PM

Carn: nexxus: ghare: nexxus: ghare: WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.

You really, really should avail yourself of Obamacare and go get you some mental health help from an expert.

I'm sure you'll agree that at least *one* of you needs help.

Have you considered that maybe it's you?

Yes, but I went, and they said "no."

You try it. I bet you get hauled away and institutionalized, because you are currently hallucinating.

That's fairly aggressive. I'm sorry you're so threatened by differing points of view. Scary, actually.

What, you can dish it out but can't take it? You've threadshiat all over the place with strawmen and direct ad-hominem attacks to myself and others in the thread. You don't even have the intelligence to be amused at the unintentional irony of your plea for rational discussion. Unless you're just trolling, which is always a possibility here.


60/40 troll/serious.

I do believe it's wrong to force people to do anything.. including give up their money .. at gun point, however.
 
2013-01-18 02:51:54 PM

Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.


Ditto for this tree-hugging liberal who has also long since forsaken Whole Paycheck for the greener pastures of Sprouts (though we're getting a Trader Joe's in this area soon!)
 
2013-01-18 02:52:21 PM

ghare: nexxus: ghare: nexxus: ghare: WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.

You really, really should avail yourself of Obamacare and go get you some mental health help from an expert.

I'm sure you'll agree that at least *one* of you needs help.

Have you considered that maybe it's you?

Yes, but I went, and they said "no."

You try it. I bet you get hauled away and institutionalized, because you are currently hallucinating.

That's fairly aggressive. I'm sorry you're so threatened by differing points of view. Scary, actually.

Insanity and lies are not "a different point of view."


That you consider alternate viewpoints 'insanity and lies' is fairly telling.
 
2013-01-18 02:53:48 PM
The only people who seem to know, and/or care that more taxes and regulations and rules are hurting businesses are people who either own businesses, or work and don't suck off the taxpayers teat.
 
2013-01-18 02:53:53 PM
Last time this was in the new, teabaggers/freepers/etc were vowing online to do ALL their shopping at Whole Foods.

Imagine their reaction when they walked in and found no Bacon 'n' Cheese Chicken Nuggets with Dippin' Sauce.

lol conservatives lol
 
2013-01-18 02:55:42 PM

master_dman: The only people who seem to know, and/or care that more taxes and regulations and rules are hurting businesses are people who either own businesses, or work and don't suck off the taxpayers teat.


You don't think that corporations suck off of taxpayer teats? Hahahahahaha!
 
2013-01-18 02:56:15 PM
www.eurweb.com
 
2013-01-18 02:57:11 PM

jaytkay: Last time this was in the new, teabaggers/freepers/etc were vowing online to do ALL their shopping at Whole Foods.

Imagine their reaction when they walked in and found no Bacon 'n' Cheese Chicken Nuggets with Dippin' Sauce.

lol conservatives lol


Everyone is in for a rude awakening when they realize that making government responsible for our health, makes it their business what you eat, as health is directly related to nutrition and what you put into your body. In fact, it's very nearly the only thing that matters.
 
2013-01-18 02:59:42 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.


Aww, honey, you're not even entertaining. Bless your heart.
 
2013-01-18 03:01:23 PM
I used to avoid it since it was over priced but I really like this guy. Unfortunately I'll have to stomach all of the middle class kids with dreadlocks, Prius's, Obama stickers, in order to shop there.
 
2013-01-18 03:02:18 PM

JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.


Because as you and the other 149 people who have posted in this thread so far know, people should not express their opinions.
 
2013-01-18 03:02:34 PM

sigdiamond2000: ha-ha-guy: What a farking moron, a large portion of his customers shop there and pay higher prices for two reasons:

1. The food selection, especially meat and seafood.
2. The belief the workers aren't treated like subhuman serfs al al Walmart
(3. The high prices keep the riffraff out.)

I shop there because they have awesome food bars and prepared foods, and they are the only grocery store in the history of humankind who actually understands how to properly run an express checkout lane.

That last point alone is worth paying Whole Foods prices to me.

By the way, I've know some people who have worked at Whole Foods and it actually sounds like an awful place to work. Trader Joe's on the other hand is supposed to be a great place to work.


This. I have a friend who has worked at Trader Joe's for years. He's paid well and has good benefits. He genuinely seems to enjoy his job.

Also, Two Buck Chuck.

/suck it, haters
 
2013-01-18 03:02:41 PM
This is the same Whole Foods CEO who dogging competitor Wild Oats on stock forums to drive the price down for an acquisition?
Anybody got a compilation of stupid things he's said?
 
2013-01-18 03:03:28 PM

nexxus: What, you can dish it out but can't take it? You've threadshiat all over the place with strawmen and direct ad-hominem attacks to myself and others in the thread. You don't even have the intelligence to be amused at the unintentional irony of your plea for rational discussion. Unless you're just trolling, which is always a possibility here.

60/40 troll/serious.

I do believe it's wrong to force people to do anything.. including give up their money .. at gun point, however.


nexxus: Carn: fuhfuhfuh: You would think that all of these stalwarts of capitalism would have learned by now that your personal views can have a negative impact on your bottom line if said views are derogatory to large portions of your customer base.

Kind of amusing that they all have to be reminded the hard way that they are not the only game in town, and that their services, while convenient, aren't exactly required.

It doesn't matter how large of your customer base it is. A good capitalist wouldn't say anything that could lose him even one customer. You might lose a customer or two across all stores, or more likely, you've probably got some stores in more liberal areas which will be much harder hit than others, possibly leading to layoffs or in extreme cases, store closures. Any way you slice it this proves his man isn't capable of leading a company and should be fired immediately.

A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward[1] government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business[2]. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does[3]. Shame he caved.

You clearly have no idea what capitalism is, or what you're doing to the world. God help us all.[4]


Alright Captain Obtuse, here's the breakdown (bolded, with reference numbers above:
1) Both a strawman and an ad-hominem. My comment that you were replying to was a general comment regarding how the CEO of a company should behave. Taking it on its own does not logically lead one to believe I have some bias, except perhaps corporatist/capitalist.
2) Strawman. Citation or this is is just complete bullshiat conjecture on your part which has nothing to do with reality.
3) Ad-hominem.
4) Ad-hominem (you have no idea), strawman (what you're doing to the world) and just to top it off, a bit of nonsense at the end.

So, seeing as how your post was riddled with logical fallacies and added nothing to any discussion, I originally felt that the best way to respond, rather than pointing out the fallacies, was to make a funny verse using your most often used logical fallacy above to the tune of Particle Man. We done here?
 
2013-01-18 03:04:02 PM

Corvus: He said he was trying to describe "government-controlled health care," or "the opposite of free-enterprise capitalism."


That's a lie. It's not "government controlled". Having some regulations is not "government controlled" does he believe doctors need to be licensed is "fascism" too? Because according to him that's "government control" also. I wish some reporter would actually grow a pair and call people out how make these retarded statements.


Government tells you what you can buy, tells you you have to buy, makes the products illegal unless they approve, and even determines what level of care you get.

Seems like government controlled to me.
 
2013-01-18 03:04:22 PM
Curious to see if there will be a mass exodus from the Whole Foods in Berkeley to the superior Berkeley Bowl.
 
2013-01-18 03:04:38 PM
If he doesn't like America any more, he's free to leave.
 
2013-01-18 03:04:43 PM

urbangirl: WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.

Aww, honey, you're not even entertaining. Bless your heart.


I guess I don't see what was wrong with what he said.

Let's break it down:
* 'Obamacare and stripping gunrights = Fascism.' Clear there's a debate here, so it's a reasonable statement relating his point of view.
* 'All power to the state, none to the individual.' The state is taking more power and you're left with less. QED.
* 'And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system?' Legitimate question.
* 'Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole?' I can't imagine anyone thinks the people who work in government aren't, by and large, idiots. Obamacare does increase 'dole'.
* 'To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them.' You can't, and it is a shame.
* 'A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.' This does happen, and it is too bad you can't talk to them.
* 'Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.' Maybe he shouldn't have called you idiots (though it does apply, mostly), but you do cheer when your freedoms are stripped away. Makes no sense to me.

Again, I don't see the problem. Care to respond point-by-point, hon?
 
2013-01-18 03:06:16 PM
"Third law: When a first body exerts a force F1 on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force F2 = −F1 on the first body. This means that F1 and F2 are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction."

Election do in fact have consequences. Enjoy it, you asked for it.
 
2013-01-18 03:06:37 PM
Man...some people really hate it when those who are less fortunate than them get ANY kind of benefits whatsoever. It just burns them up inside to see other people happy and healthy.
 
2013-01-18 03:06:38 PM

Carn: nexxus: That his "cave" serves his long term interests. So you really shouldn't think it's a shame, he's being a good capitalist by your own terms.

Maybe his job/position was threatened. We all know you liberal pansies can't handle alternate viewpoints or have a rational discussion, despite your professions of openness and tolerance. We don't really know why he caved - can only speculate.

He certainly believes what he said originally.

Ad-hominem man, Ad-hominem man
Ad-hominem man meets Straw man
They don't fight
They are good friends
Ad-hominem man


Ad-hominem hominem hominem hominem hominem hominem pow right in the kisser

no point just playing
 
2013-01-18 03:07:39 PM

nexxus: jaytkay: Last time this was in the new, teabaggers/freepers/etc were vowing online to do ALL their shopping at Whole Foods.

Imagine their reaction when they walked in and found no Bacon 'n' Cheese Chicken Nuggets with Dippin' Sauce.

lol conservatives lol

Everyone is in for a rude awakening when they realize that making government responsible for our health, makes it their business what you eat, as health is directly related to nutrition and what you put into your body. In fact, it's very nearly the only thing that matters.


Your slippery slope is very slippery. The goverment has a vested right to have some responsibility over our heath as it is in our vested interest not to have a defence force that can't run a mile or a workforce to unhealthy to grow our GDP. That is why we have a CDC, DOH, FDA, USDA, etc. So are you saying the Heritage Foundation, who came up with the framework for "Obama/Romney Care" are interested in full government control over our bodies? You probably think Cap and Trade was hatched as a sisnister liberal plot as well.
 
2013-01-18 03:08:27 PM

nexxus: Everyone is in for a rude awakening when they realize that making government responsible for our health, makes it their business what you eat, as health is directly related to nutrition and what you put into your body. In fact, it's very nearly the only thing that matters.


And this is happening when?
 
2013-01-18 03:08:42 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.


Hyperbole, how does it work?
 
2013-01-18 03:09:02 PM

JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.


He has a book out, he is trying to sell his book get it?
 
2013-01-18 03:09:06 PM
Getting a kick because I applied for a job with them here in Austin. One of the more bizarre experiences I've had. The first interview was great, I met with the manager and one of the technical leads and talked for about an hour. They called me in for my second interview, a group interview with about 8 people, the following week. The second interview was basically a bunch of Aspie's sitting around, trying to out-do each other with completely irrelevant questions that had little or no bearing on what I would have actually been doing. I was glad when it was over, and had no intention of taking the position if it had been offered to me. Just for kicks I did a little internet research about employee satisfaction and found out some interesting information about how they operate, and it's not good. Dodged a bullet.....
 
2013-01-18 03:09:29 PM

Wook: I used to avoid it since it was over priced but I really like this guy. Unfortunately I'll have to stomach all of the middle class kids with dreadlocks, Prius's, Obama stickers, in order to shop there.


Yah, As long as you don't act like the douche you are here I don't think they will care about you either.
 
2013-01-18 03:09:29 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-18 03:10:22 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.


3/10 Too obvious, but you could get some action.
 
2013-01-18 03:10:24 PM
Good thing not a single Farker runs even a decent sized business.

Imagine how long it would last? 100k salary with full benefits for a paper route?
 
2013-01-18 03:10:37 PM
My favorite part of the interview was when he was asked that if he were allowed input on how to change the bill, what would it be. He essentially drew a blank and just mouthed off "it's fascism" again. Either the changes he has in mind are too Mr. Burns to say out loud or he has no clue what the fark is on the bill.
 
2013-01-18 03:12:08 PM

Thunderpipes: Good thing not a single Farker runs even a decent sized business.

Imagine how long it would last? 100k salary with full benefits for a paper route?


Do you ever have any clue about what you're talking about ever or do you just puke words until you have something resembling a post?
 
2013-01-18 03:12:08 PM

nexxus: urbangirl: WhoopAssWayne: Obamacare and stripping our gun rights are both pretty much Fascism 101. All power to the state, none to the individual. And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system? Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole? To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them. A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me. Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.

Aww, honey, you're not even entertaining. Bless your heart.

I guess I don't see what was wrong with what he said.

Let's break it down:
* 'Obamacare and stripping gunrights = Fascism.' Clear there's a debate here, so it's a reasonable statement relating his point of view.
* 'All power to the state, none to the individual.' The state is taking more power and you're left with less. QED.
* 'And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system?' Legitimate question.
* 'Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole?' I can't imagine anyone thinks the people who work in government aren't, by and large, idiots. Obamacare does increase 'dole'.
* 'To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them.' You can't, and it is a shame.
* 'A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.' This does happen, and it is too bad you can't talk to them.
* 'Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.' Maybe ...


Again, I don't see the problem. Care to respond point-by-point, hon?


no thanks. waaayyyy too much spittle in that little screed.
btw, i work in government. i'm intelligent and conscientious and i make a positive difference in people's lives. so i'm going back to work now. have fun, y'all.
 
2013-01-18 03:12:23 PM

dabbletech: JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.

Because as you and the other 149 people who have posted in this thread so far know, people should not express their opinions.


Oh he is full and well has the right to express his opinion, and we have the right to mock him for it and decide not to give him our service, hence as a CEO he has a feduciary responsibility to his stockholders not to say stupid things and alienate his revenue source.
 
2013-01-18 03:13:58 PM
The ideal of capitalism as it has been embraced by money/power in this country is the incarnation of capitalism that brings them more money/power while wearing a mask of social and economic altruism.

Appearances matter if the status quo is to be maintained.

He lost sight of that briefly and now worries that the status quo for his slice of the pie may be endangered by letting his mask slip.

Some of us were never fooled by the mask, and gleefully watch him squirm.
 
2013-01-18 03:14:39 PM
i88.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-18 03:15:52 PM

Thunderpipes: Good thing not a single Farker runs even a decent sized business.

Imagine how long it would last? 100k salary with full benefits for a paper route?


Well you know, Drew runs a business, not to mentioned you just mass an assumption about thousands of people you don't know. The second sentence would be funny, except that I worry that you actually believe in that strawman (being the person who would do such a thing).
 
2013-01-18 03:16:36 PM

Carn: Thunderpipes: Good thing not a single Farker runs even a decent sized business.

Imagine how long it would last? 100k salary with full benefits for a paper route?

Well you know, Drew runs a business, not to mentioned you just mass made an assumption about thousands of people you don't know. The second sentence would be funny, except that I worry that you actually believe in that strawman (being the person who would do such a thing).


FTFM
 
2013-01-18 03:20:30 PM

nexxus: Everyone is in for a rude awakening when they realize that making government responsible for our health, makes it their business what you eat, as health is directly related to nutrition and what you put into your body. In fact, it's very nearly the only thing that matters.


Precisely.

The one that pays the piper calls the tune.
 
2013-01-18 03:20:42 PM
Yeah, here's the quote:

"I regret using that word now because it's got so much baggage attached to it," Mackey told HuffPost Live on Thursday. "Of course, I was just using the standard dictionary definition."


In other words, "I'm sorry you can't handle your beliefs".

Deal with it.
 
2013-01-18 03:20:48 PM

Marcus Aurelius: If he doesn't like America any more, he's free to leave.


Leaving isn't free any more.
 
2013-01-18 03:22:26 PM
urbangirl


Oh, come on, he used QED. He MUST know what he's talking about.


/He's talking about voices in his head......
 
2013-01-18 03:23:10 PM

JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.


THIS! Perhaps if he was so concerned about having to provide health care to the people who make him his money (since I sincerely doubt he could run that company by himself from the CEO position to the cash register), he should have pushed for SINGLE PAYER health care instead.

Screw him. I've never shopped and Whole Paycheck and I never will.
 
2013-01-18 03:25:27 PM

ManRay: nexxus: Everyone is in for a rude awakening when they realize that making government responsible for our health, makes it their business what you eat, as health is directly related to nutrition and what you put into your body. In fact, it's very nearly the only thing that matters.

Precisely.

The one that pays the piper calls the tune.


Serious question: Can you point to some examples of this in the countries that have single payer healthcare?
 
2013-01-18 03:26:00 PM

sigdiamond2000: Is "everyone who shops at Whole Foods is a liberal" the new "everyone who has a hobby is a hipster?"


Evidently.

Looks like you can't just shop at the nearest grocery store anymore without it affecting your political outlook.
 
2013-01-18 03:26:43 PM

Wook: "Third law: When a first body exerts a force F1 on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force F2 = −F1 on the first body. This means that F1 and F2 are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction."

Election do in fact have consequences. Enjoy it, you asked for it.


We know, the consequences of listening to Republicans cry for another 4 years.
 
2013-01-18 03:27:11 PM

Carn: A good capitalist will express himself if he feels that his long term interests are best served by doing so. In this case, he's right: 'your' wacko, liberal, bias toward[1] government control (and yes, that *is* what it is..even if only 'partial' through 'a few' regulations - it *is* control) will eventually put him out of business or so far under the thumb of government that he might as well be out of business[2]. Speaking out is the only rational thing to do and shows that he's a man of courage and integrity, unlike most of you liberal farkwits who blow whichever way the wind does[3]. Shame he caved.

You clearly have no idea what capitalism is, or what you're doing to the world. God help us all.[4]

Alright Captain Obtuse, here's the breakdown (bolded, with reference numbers above:
1) Both a strawman and an ad-hominem. My comment that you were replying to was a general comment regarding how the CEO of a company should behave. Taking it on its own does not logically lead one to believe I have some bias, except perhaps corporatist/capitalist.
2) Strawman. Citation or this is is just complete bullshiat conjecture on your part which has nothing to do with reality.
3) Ad-hominem.
4) Ad-hominem (you have no idea), strawman (what you're doing to the world) and just to top it off, a bit of nonsense at the end.

So, seeing as how your post was riddled with logical fallacies and added nothing to any discussion, I originally felt that the best way to respond, rather than pointing out the fallacies, was to make a funny verse using your most often used logical fallacy above to the tune of Particle Man. We done here?


Let me repeat: 60/40 troll/serious. But I'll respond:

1 -
a) What you said *was* a comment to do with how you feel a CEO should behave, and you are _dead wrong_. CEOs should speak their minds and do what they feel is right, rather than optimize for profit. If you think that all a true capitalist cares about is money, again, you're wrong and you misunderstand the concept. This was my original point. I don't know how much exposure you've had to large corporation CEOs, but most do believe and behave the way you seem to think they should, and - again - that's wrong.
b) I did make an ad-hominem attack, mostly because it amused me to do so. See above.
2) Not a strawman. I don't have a citation handy, but central planning and government control lead to inefficiency (in terms of capital use, etc.), outright waste, less innovation, uncertainty, and ultimately damaged or ruined businesses (and by extension, damaged lives). I have first hand experience with this, and as I'm not interested in sharing my identity, you'll have to take my word for it. Or not.
3) Yes, this is an ad hominem, but it's also mostly true. Many, many liberals (and conservatives) follow their political 'superiors' whichever way they lead. And, yes, I trolled again.
4) It was a bit of an aggressive statement, but I stand by it: you appear to believe capitalism is what you see in America today, but it isn't.. or shouldn't be (if we're allowing what's popular to alter definitions). There's not much of a strawman here.
I don't think you're beyond hope - you could come around with some help.

/(Sorry, you called me Captain Obtuse.)
 
2013-01-18 03:27:26 PM
nexxus:

Let's break it down:
* 'Obamacare and stripping gunrights = Fascism.' Clear there's a debate here, so it's a reasonable statement relating his point of view.
>>this is not a reasonable statement it is Hyperbole at best and complete Bullshiat at worst. If you look at the definition of facsism there is no debate. Also Obamacare was a heritage foundation idea, so are conservatives Fascists? Stripping gun rights is another illusion that has no backing in reality.

* 'All power to the state, none to the individual.' The state is taking more power and you're left with less. QED.
>>More hyperbole that does not follow the premise assuming he is folllwing from his first statement.

* 'And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system?' Legitimate question.
>>This is legetimate question but then follows with tripe.

* 'Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole?' I can't imagine anyone thinks the people who work in government aren't, by and large, idiots. Obamacare does increase 'dole'.
>>see

* 'To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them.' You can't, and it is a shame.
>>How is Obamacare like North Korea and China? By the way China and North Korea do not have the same forms of goverment or even societal norms and goverment control.

* 'A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.' This does happen, and it is too bad you can't talk to them.
>> So don;t live in NK and China. I'm sure you and him will stop buying chinese made products but this still ahs nothing to do with Obamacare and how our goverment currently opperates.

* 'Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.' Maybe he shouldn't have called ...
See how can you argue with this? I wonder how he feels when people get stripped of their voting rights because they can't afford to get a state ID, rules keep changing, and access gets restricted? How about the same sex marriage?
 
2013-01-18 03:27:58 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Yeah, here's the quote:

"I regret using that word now because it's got so much baggage attached to it," Mackey told HuffPost Live on Thursday. "Of course, I was just using the standard dictionary definition."


In other words, "I'm sorry you can't handle your beliefs".

Deal with it.


It's great that he can look up the word, he still misapplied it.
 
2013-01-18 03:28:03 PM

Thunderpipes: Good thing not a single Farker runs even a decent sized business.

Imagine how long it would last? 100k salary with full benefits for a paper route?


How big is the business you run?
 
2013-01-18 03:29:44 PM

TommyymmoT: semolina


Semolina is the coarse, purified wheat middlings of durum wheat used in making pasta, breakfast cereals, puddings, and couscous

Probably not Mao Zedong.
 
2013-01-18 03:29:53 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Yeah, here's the quote:

"I regret using that word now because it's got so much baggage attached to it," Mackey told HuffPost Live on Thursday. "Of course, I was just using the standard dictionary definition."


In other words, "I'm sorry you can't handle your beliefs".

Deal with it.


The old Republican tactic of talking first without taking facts and reality into account.

He should of ended it with "not intended to be a factual statement".
 
2013-01-18 03:31:52 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Yeah, here's the quote:

"I regret using that word now because it's got so much baggage attached to it," Mackey told HuffPost Live on Thursday. "Of course, I was just using the standard dictionary definition."


In other words, "I'm sorry you can't handle your beliefs".

Deal with it.


It's not hard to deal with the fact that Mackey doesn't understand what fascism means. But if you think he meant "I'm sorry you can't handle your beliefs" rather than, "Please, please don't stop buying my overpriced crap," then you're a fool.
 
2013-01-18 03:32:06 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Yeah, here's the quote:

"I regret using that word now because it's got so much baggage attached to it," Mackey told HuffPost Live on Thursday. "Of course, I was just using the standard dictionary definition."


In other words, "I'm sorry you can't handle your beliefs".

Deal with it.


fas·cism noun \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Definition of FASCISM
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
- fas·cist \-shist also -sist\ noun or adjective often capitalized
- fas·cis·tic \fa-ˈshis-tik also -ˈsis-\ adjective often capitalized
- fas·cis·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb often capitalized
 
2013-01-18 03:34:30 PM

neversubmit: Carn: nexxus: That his "cave" serves his long term interests. So you really shouldn't think it's a shame, he's being a good capitalist by your own terms.

Maybe his job/position was threatened. We all know you liberal pansies can't handle alternate viewpoints or have a rational discussion, despite your professions of openness and tolerance. We don't really know why he caved - can only speculate.

He certainly believes what he said originally.

Ad-hominem man, Ad-hominem man
Ad-hominem man meets Straw man
They don't fight
They are good friends
Ad-hominem man

Ad-hominem hominem hominem hominem hominem hominem pow right in the kisser

no point just playing


It almost plays into

Ad homi, homi, homi, not gonna work here anymore, anyway.
 
2013-01-18 03:36:42 PM
If you care about health, apparently shopping at Whole Foods is a poor idea.
 
2013-01-18 03:37:45 PM
Obamacare is Compassionate Fascism. Compascism if you like.
 
2013-01-18 03:38:26 PM

All2morrowsparTs: dabbletech: JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.

Because as you and the other 149 people who have posted in this thread so far know, people should not express their opinions.

Oh he is full and well has the right to express his opinion, and we have the right to mock him for it and decide not to give him our service, hence as a CEO he has a feduciary responsibility to his stockholders not to say stupid things and alienate his revenue source.


Agreed.
 
2013-01-18 03:38:49 PM

UsikFark: Semolina is the coarse, purified wheat middlings of durum wheat used in making pasta, breakfast cereals, puddings, and couscous Pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower.



ftfy
 
2013-01-18 03:38:57 PM

Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.


This
 
2013-01-18 03:41:02 PM
It's pretty pathetic when the elitist, white liberal will choose his or her's market place based on the owner's political views. Seriously, you will gladly destroy our environment by driving your Prius an extra 15 miles so you can buy your "organic wares" at Trader Joe's instead of Whole Foods?

...Atlas may be shrugging but Mother Earth is balling her freaking eyes out. Jerks.
 
2013-01-18 03:45:35 PM
There's nothing fascists hate more than being called fascists.

i48.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-18 03:45:47 PM
I'd have more respect for these people (who say stupid things publicly and then issue an insincere "apology" later) if they'd just admit they don't know what words mean. He says he "made a poor word choice." Which is a lie.

He just didn't know what the word "fascist" actually meant, he probably saw/read all the Republican assholes using it, so he jumped on the "fascist" bandwagon.

Lots of people do this. They read some stupid shiat on the intertubes or see it on TV and repeat it simply because everybody else is saying it.

I bet if you asked him to give you the definition of "fascism" right now, he couldn't do it. Because he thought (and probably still does) that "fascist" means "leader who does stuff I don't like."
 
2013-01-18 03:46:33 PM

Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy, which is vastly different from spouting off about "Obongos gonna takes mah monies, that's facisms!". Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.


You might have a point if this were a debate in a polisci course, but the problem is that every government picks and chooses the political model for a particular need based on the situation. Thus, a capitalistic society may in fact have a system (in this instance, healthcare) that is not owned by the government, but is in effect highly controlled by the government through policies. To label it fascist might be arguable in an academic context, but it is simply inflamatory in a public setting where the label 'fascist' will be conflated with regimes whose whole method of governance was by fascist models rather than single instances. Moussolini, and Hitler's idea of a perfect state for example.
 
2013-01-18 03:47:55 PM

jdoncbus2: It's pretty pathetic when the elitist, white liberal will choose his or her's market place based on the owner's political views. Seriously, you will gladly destroy our environment by driving your Prius an extra 15 miles so you can buy your "organic wares" at Trader Joe's instead of Whole Foods?

...Atlas may be shrugging but Mother Earth is balling her freaking eyes out. Jerks.


What if Trader Joe's is closer to home than Whole Foods?

/bet you didn't think of that
//*snicker*
 
2013-01-18 03:50:46 PM

Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy, which is vastly different from spouting off about "Obongos gonna takes mah monies, that's facisms!". Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.


...Wow. You really don't know what fascism is in any sense, do you.

/History, politics, reality, how do they farking work.
 
2013-01-18 03:51:52 PM

All2morrowsparTs: nexxus:

Let's break it down:
* 'Obamacare and stripping gunrights = Fascism.' Clear there's a debate here, so it's a reasonable statement relating his point of view.
>>this is not a reasonable statement it is Hyperbole at best and complete Bullshiat at worst. If you look at the definition of facsism there is no debate. Also Obamacare was a heritage foundation idea, so are conservatives Fascists? Stripping gun rights is another illusion that has no backing in reality.

* 'All power to the state, none to the individual.' The state is taking more power and you're left with less. QED.
>>More hyperbole that does not follow the premise assuming he is folllwing from his first statement.

* 'And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system?' Legitimate question.
>>This is legetimate question but then follows with tripe.

* 'Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole?' I can't imagine anyone thinks the people who work in government aren't, by and large, idiots. Obamacare does increase 'dole'.
>>see

* 'To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them.' You can't, and it is a shame.
>>How is Obamacare like North Korea and China? By the way China and North Korea do not have the same forms of goverment or even societal norms and goverment control.

* 'A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.' This does happen, and it is too bad you can't talk to them.
>> So don;t live in NK and China. I'm sure you and him will stop buying chinese made products but this still ahs nothing to do with Obamacare and how our goverment currently opperates.

* 'Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.' Maybe he shouldn't have called ...
See how can you argue with this? I wonder how he feels when people get stripped of their voting rights because they can't afford to get a state ID, rules keep changing, and access gets restricted? How about the same sex marriage?


1) It's clear you disagree with him, and that's fine. But it doesn't make his statement less valid. Fascists tend to control lives and take guns. I think that's what he was getting it, though I'm not a mind reader.
2) The way it was stated may have a bit hyperbolic, but the point was valid. By regulating, the state takes more power, and you're left with less.
3) Agreed, mostly.
4) Might not be tripe, though. It is possibly trolly-y and such, but his point may be legitimate. Government doesn't generally do a good job taking care of anyone or anything. And we have a large and growing segment of the population that sits around and does nothing while waiting for checks.
5) I think you've missed his point. He's saying, I believe, that government control is bad and is using a bit of an extreme example to illustrate.
6) Again, you've missed or chosen not to see his point.
7) Government should have *nothing* to do with marriage, period. Marriage is between two people - whether they're man and woman, man and man, or woman and woman. Why should we (collectively, as the government) care a bit who or how people choose to live together? And as for the voting ID issue, I'm a little conflicted: we should ensure that people who vote are citizens and entitled, but I certainly wouldn't want disenfranchise anyone, either.
 
2013-01-18 03:52:15 PM

jjorsett: There's nothing fascists hate more than being called fascists.

[i48.tinypic.com image 370x274]


Fascists!
 
2013-01-18 03:52:35 PM

PsiChick: Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy, which is vastly different from spouting off about "Obongos gonna takes mah monies, that's facisms!". Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.

...Wow. You really don't know what fascism is in any sense, do you.

/History, politics, reality, how do they farking work.


History and reality have a well known liberal bias. Didn't you know this?
 
2013-01-18 03:52:41 PM
Hale-Bopp: What if Trader Joe's is closer to home than Whole Foods?

/bet you didn't think of that
//*snicker*


You got me on that one. Luckily for me, I have a Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and The Anderson's all within 1/4 mile of one another! Score on every level and my Honda Pilot & Civic smile with glee.
 
2013-01-18 03:53:06 PM
The fact that people are in an uproar about this statement tells me they are ignorant and emotionally reacting to it.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Obamacare is clearly corporatist. It builds upon the previously established corporatist system that is the health care business in the USA.

Besides, the health insurance companies will rake in huge profits in the beginning of Obama care. Raising rates, forcing people who don't need their insurance to buy it, denying whatever the government says they can deny, etc and so on. However as time goes on it will bite them in the ass and break them. Politics is about transferring wealth from A to B. Each election cycle there will be more to cover and increases will be restricted. Between increased coverage and inflation the system will go bankrupt and then the government can take over entirely. Much like what happened to transit and passenger rail.

As to Whole Foods' customer demographic, food has been a corporatist business in the USA since the 1930s when it was still cool to be a fascist. The typical Whole Foods customer should be someone who doesn't want to eat food from the big industrial players that federal government law and regulation favors at the expense of smaller producers. Isn't the entire point of paying more at whole foods to avoid the processed food and food with chemicals added to it and nutrients removed from it?

Thus, someone who doesn't like the corporatist food machine probably shouldn't like corporatist health care either. Of course understanding how the food and health care got the way they are isn't too common.
 
2013-01-18 03:53:33 PM

urbangirl: no thanks. waaayyyy too much spittle in that little screed.
btw, i work in government. i'm intelligent and conscientious and i make a positive difference in people's lives. so i'm going back to work now. have fun, y'all.


It would be better if you would defend yourself.

But, anyway, assuming you've accurately characterized yourself: thank you for your service.. we need more like you.
 
2013-01-18 03:57:58 PM

Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy,


Unless of course you actually look up what fascism is and know that he's incredibly, completely wrong.
 
2013-01-18 03:58:24 PM

Dr. Whoof: Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.

This tree-hugging liberal shops at Kroger, Target and Wal-Mart, because there isn't a Trader Joe's anywhere near me, and Whole Foods is always full of hipsters, and I can't stand hipsters. The prices suck balls too.

Also, this tree-hugging liberal only has so much money to make it through a week.

We choose our battles - where to buy food isn't one I'm willing to fight.


You wont shop at whole foods because of the other people that shop there, but you don't mind the People of Walmart?

www.dumpaday.com
 
2013-01-18 03:59:59 PM
The government tells insurance companies what they have to cover, where they can sell their products and how much profit they can make. It is also going to require people to purchase those products or pay a fine.

But that's not the government controlling a segment of the economy or anything, it's just a light touch of regulation.
 
2013-01-18 04:00:00 PM

All2morrowsparTs: nexxus: jaytkay: Last time this was in the new, teabaggers/freepers/etc were vowing online to do ALL their shopping at Whole Foods.

Imagine their reaction when they walked in and found no Bacon 'n' Cheese Chicken Nuggets with Dippin' Sauce.

lol conservatives lol

Everyone is in for a rude awakening when they realize that making government responsible for our health, makes it their business what you eat, as health is directly related to nutrition and what you put into your body. In fact, it's very nearly the only thing that matters.

Your slippery slope is very slippery. The goverment has a vested right to have some responsibility over our heath as it is in our vested interest not to have a defence force that can't run a mile or a workforce to unhealthy to grow our GDP. That is why we have a CDC, DOH, FDA, USDA, etc. So are you saying the Heritage Foundation, who came up with the framework for "Obama/Romney Care" are interested in full government control over our bodies? You probably think Cap and Trade was hatched as a sisnister liberal plot as well.


It is a slippery slope.. a very slippery one. I'm saying that, eventually, the government will feel it has more and more right to take more and more control over our lives because it has taken control of healthcare. See the definition of 'slippery slope'.

I think cap and trade was a sinister plot hatched by people who want to make as much money as possible, and so do most people involved in that space. Carbon offset trading is a joke. I was involved in a project several years back that would have sold offsets, and the whole concept is mostly laughed at by those in that part of that industry, from consultants to exchange operators. There are no standards, there's much corruption, and little accountability, and I could go on and on. It's just a big money game that's recognized as such by those who participate.
 
2013-01-18 04:00:14 PM

GT_bike: Uncle Bester: Don't care, don't shop there, never will.

Business owners that wear their derpitude on their sleeves don't get my patronage.

So as a hipster you never shopped there because his derpitude was so evident that you were boycotting him before it was even in the news?

How have so many people gotten to the point that leads them to believe the purpose of a business isn't to provide a product or service to consumers but to provide jobs and healthcare to employees?

Farking Hipster Buggy Whip factories closing to avoid Obamacare!


Actually, the purpose of a business is neither of those things. They are merely methods used to achieve the real purpose which is to maximize profit. Many schools of thought believe that a happy workforce is sufficiently more productive than an unhappy workforce to offset or exceed the investment in the employees. Thus the production of goods and services is more efficient, customers are more satisfied and loyal, and your next marketing campaign that tells everyone how much you care doesn't come across as douchebag bullshiat.
 
2013-01-18 04:01:29 PM

ManRay: The government tells insurance companies what they have to cover, where they can sell their products and how much profit they can make. It is also going to require people to purchase those products or pay a fine.

But that's not the government controlling a segment of the economy or anything, it's just a light touch of regulation.


And there's a gun to your head, essentially, if you choose not to participate. Keep that in mind.

What happens if you refuse to pay them or do as you're told? They fine and attack you legally. What happens if you continue to resist? They send people after you physically.
 
2013-01-18 04:01:43 PM
I've never once shopped at a Chick-fil-a, Home Depot, Hobby Lobby or Whole Foods.

Guess I never will now that I've heard about their owners' politics and/or religion :( I'm so verklempt.
 
2013-01-18 04:03:10 PM

someonelse: nexxus: Everyone is in for a rude awakening when they realize that making government responsible for our health, makes it their business what you eat, as health is directly related to nutrition and what you put into your body. In fact, it's very nearly the only thing that matters.

And this is happening when?


Obamacare clearly invites government into our health decisions. Who knows when it'll actually happen, but it's, as the previous poster pointed out, a slippery slope.
 
2013-01-18 04:03:16 PM
If your brand is heavily reliant on image (it is) and the reality behind your company is inconsistent with that image (it also is) then you need to understand that, and shut the fark up. That dumbass needs to flee any public/media attention and hide behind his large stacks of cash.
 
2013-01-18 04:04:14 PM

jjorsett: There's nothing fascists hate more than being called fascists.

[i48.tinypic.com image 370x274]


Faschist!
 
2013-01-18 04:07:26 PM

JosephFinn: Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy,

Unless of course you actually look up what fascism is and know that he's incredibly, completely wrong.


It's a fairly nebulous term and there's no rock solid definition of a fascist government. Some people would describe it as "socialism without democracy." Others would say it happens when private interests commandeer the state and/or merge with it. This latter was a definition shared by Mussolini and FDR. By many common definitions it's when corporations run the government. Rest assured, this would never happen in the USA.
 
2013-01-18 04:08:07 PM

jigger: JosephFinn: Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy,

Unless of course you actually look up what fascism is and know that he's incredibly, completely wrong.

It's a fairly nebulous term and there's no rock solid definition of a fascist government. Some people would describe it as "socialism without democracy." Others would say it happens when private interests commandeer the state and/or merge with it. This latter was a definition shared by Mussolini and FDR. By many common definitions it's when corporations run the government. Rest assured, this would never happen in the USA.


Never happen here. You're right.
 
2013-01-18 04:08:08 PM
Using the democratic process to pass laws is not facism. Jesus.
 
2013-01-18 04:09:04 PM

PanicMan: Using the democratic process to pass laws is not facism. Jesus.


Is it fascism when the democratic process is influenced (or even hijacked) by progressives and corporatists who care only for themselves?
 
2013-01-18 04:10:58 PM
It sure looks democratic doesn't it? At least on TV.
 
2013-01-18 04:11:41 PM

jigger: It sure looks democratic doesn't it? At least on TV.


It's really entertaining, too. Constant cat fights. Hell, it's better than reality tv!
 
2013-01-18 04:12:49 PM

sigdiamond2000: ha-ha-guy: What a farking moron, a large portion of his customers shop there and pay higher prices for two reasons:

1. The food selection, especially meat and seafood.
2. The belief the workers aren't treated like subhuman serfs al al Walmart
(3. The high prices keep the riffraff out.)

I shop there because they have awesome food bars and prepared foods, and they are the only grocery store in the history of humankind who actually understands how to properly run an express checkout lane.

That last point alone is worth paying Whole Foods prices to me.

By the way, I've know some people who have worked at Whole Foods and it actually sounds like an awful place to work. Trader Joe's on the other hand is supposed to be a great place to work.


Yeah, except the subtle racism and when Joe comes in pretending to be a random ethnicity.
 
2013-01-18 04:14:00 PM

nexxus: All2morrowsparTs: nexxus:
1) It's clear you disagree with him, and that's fine. But it doesn't make his statement less valid. Fascists tend to control lives and take guns. I think that's what he was getting it, though I'm not a mind reader.
2) The way it was stated may have a bit hyperbolic, but the point was valid. By regulating, the state takes more power, and you're left with less.
3) Agreed, mostly.
4) Might not be tripe, though. It is possibly trolly-y and such, but his point may be legitimate. Government doesn't generally do a good job taking care of anyone or anything. And we have a large and growing segment of the population that sits around and does nothing while waiting for checks.
5) I think you've missed his point. He's saying, I believe, that government control is bad and is using a bit of an extreme example to illustrate.
6) Again, you've missed or chosen not to see his point.
7) Government should have *nothing* to do with marriage, period. Marriage is between two people - whether they're man and woman, man and man, or woman and woman. Why should we (collectively, as the government) care a bit who or how people choose to live together? And as for the voting ID issue, I'm a little conflicted: we should ensure that people who vote are citizens and entitled, but I certainly wouldn't want disenfranchise anyone, either.


When you aren't being all ad-hominey, you sound like a reasonable human being.

Most of those original examples are bad and/or slippery slope arguments, which are faulty. Much like the current crop of "if you own a gun, you might kill someone" or "if you drive a car, you might kill someone."

In regards to number 7, the laws regarding marriage ARE fascist. As you said, government should have no say in granting government marriage certificates based on genders (I do believe that churches has the right to say no to granting religious marriages, but I also believe that churches views on homosexuality are stupid and hypocritical).

Also, voting ids are easy to do, but slightly controversial in a big brother sort of way. Just make it so that any person can go to any federal office (that serves the public) and get a free government id. I don't have an issue requiring photo id to prove someone is a citizen, but I do have an issue trying to change the laws during a Presidential election, which results in numerous voters being "accidentally" purged from the voter reels. I actually had to check that I could still vote, because I was nervous I had been purged. If I had been, and hadn't had the time to get it fixed, I would've dropped so many lawsuits on the state of Florida it wouldn't have been funny.
 
2013-01-18 04:15:30 PM

Rihlsul: Sad when you can't use the right terms to discuss governance without invoking a shiatstorm.


Precisely.

Even sadder is how, like a pavlovian bell, certain key phrases launch people who suffer from Partisan Identity Syndrome (TM) into apoplectics fits of blind rage attacks.
 
2013-01-18 04:16:18 PM
So the trains aren't lining up to take us away to camp?
 
2013-01-18 04:16:33 PM
A man who makes his millions ripping people off on supposedly anti-biotic free chickens when his buyers know damned well where they come from. Fark him.
 
2013-01-18 04:19:57 PM

Wook: I used to avoid it since it was over priced but I really like this guy. Unfortunately I'll have to stomach all of the middle class kids with dreadlocks, Prius's, Obama stickers, in order to shop there.


Think how they suffer from you being there.

/I hope that brought a smile to your face and sent you running to Whole Foods
 
2013-01-18 04:20:05 PM
If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?
 
2013-01-18 04:21:55 PM

jigger: Obamacare is Compassionate Fascism. Compascism if you like.


Hurr!
 
2013-01-18 04:22:49 PM

efgeise: When you aren't being all ad-hominey, you sound like a reasonable human being.

Most of those original examples are bad and/or slippery slope arguments, which are faulty. Much like the current crop of "if you own a gun, you might kill someone" or "if you drive a car, you might kill someone."

In regards to number 7, the laws regarding marriage ARE fascist. As you said, government should have no say in granting government marriage certificates based on genders (I do believe that churches has the right to say no to granting religious marriages, but I also believe that churches views on homosexuality are stupid and hypocritical).

Also, voting ids are easy to do, but slightly controversial in a big brother sort of way. Just make it so that any person can go to any federal office (that serves the public) and get a free government id. I don't have an issue requiring photo id to prove someone is a citizen, but I do have an issue trying to change the laws during a Presidential election, which results in numerous voters being "accidentally" purged from the voter reels. I actually had to check that I could still vote, because I was nervous I had been purged. If I had been, and hadn't had the time to get it fixed, I would've dropped so many lawsuits on the state of Florida it wouldn't have been funny.


Thank you. I like to think I'm reasonable, generally. I was ad-homineming and trolling both because it amuses me to watch everyone get whipped into a frenzy, and because I enjoy the spirited debate that follows.

I agree that some of his arguments (assuming I interpreted them correctly) aren't 'clean', but I have a hard time saying they're wrong.. or even faulty.

On all other points we agree.
 
2013-01-18 04:24:29 PM
Well, it looks like this asshole doesn't know the definition of at least to words.
 
2013-01-18 04:28:06 PM
It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.
 
2013-01-18 04:29:01 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.


Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.
 
2013-01-18 04:29:54 PM

jst3p: Dr. Whoof: Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.

This tree-hugging liberal shops at Kroger, Target and Wal-Mart, because there isn't a Trader Joe's anywhere near me, and Whole Foods is always full of hipsters, and I can't stand hipsters. The prices suck balls too.

Also, this tree-hugging liberal only has so much money to make it through a week.

We choose our battles - where to buy food isn't one I'm willing to fight.

You wont shop at whole foods because of the other people that shop there, but you don't mind the People of Walmart?

[www.dumpaday.com image 620x387]


img203.imageshack.us

Mom?
 
2013-01-18 04:35:48 PM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.


The number of people who are religious would indicate that a great many people like being told what to do.
 
2013-01-18 04:37:05 PM

jst3p: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

The number of people who are religious would indicate that a great many people like being told what to do.


I agree. Ridiculous. I suppose I shouldn't have used 'most' .. good point.
 
2013-01-18 04:40:09 PM

nexxus: PanicMan: Using the democratic process to pass laws is not facism. Jesus.

Is it fascism when the democratic process is influenced (or even hijacked) by progressives and corporatists who care only for themselves?


No, that is called the democratic process. Pettioning the government is part of the democratic process. While there are extremes to this as shown by the influence of well funded lobbyists, it is part of the process good or bad. and Nice little sneaky ad hominem in the latter part of the question. You know conservatives are truly altruistic and never would they be considered part of the corporatist agenda. I mean look at General Dynamics, total hippies they are.
 
2013-01-18 04:42:17 PM

lilbjorn: mm'kay?


Came/satisfied/etc.
 
2013-01-18 04:42:57 PM
nexxus:
I think cap and trade was a sinister plot hatched by people who want to make as much money as possible, and so do most people involved in that space.

So which is it? You don't trust the profiteers to sort out the environment, but you're happy to let them into the healthcare hen-house?
 
2013-01-18 04:44:56 PM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.


That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!
 
2013-01-18 04:46:14 PM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.


Well, I assume that most people are adults and understand, that in a fuctioning society, there are some things that people need to be told what to do. That is why we have rules and regulation. A truely free market can't exist in a world where there is not perfect information and perfect competition. The invisible hand can't truly function unless there is another one to slap it sometimes.
 
2013-01-18 04:46:56 PM

jst3p: Dr. Whoof: Guuberre: Well, bless his heart. This tree-hugging liberal shops at Trader Joe's, so he can bite my butt anyway.

This tree-hugging liberal shops at Kroger, Target and Wal-Mart, because there isn't a Trader Joe's anywhere near me, and Whole Foods is always full of hipsters, and I can't stand hipsters. The prices suck balls too.

Also, this tree-hugging liberal only has so much money to make it through a week.

We choose our battles - where to buy food isn't one I'm willing to fight.

You wont shop at whole foods because of the other people that shop there, but you don't mind the People of Walmart?

[www.dumpaday.com image 620x387]


1-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2013-01-18 04:46:56 PM
Over 400 comments and nothing about Beer?

I love the place - great beer, freshly sliced bacon and stuffed sausages from the meat counter. Greens are always super fresh... and I can drink a beer while I shop.

Seriously... HEB/Safeway/Publix/whatever - maybe you have a Starbucks inside.

Whole Foods has a farking bar. With microbrews. Barstools. The full deal, just stuck in there between the dairy case and the bakery.

Yes, the owner says silly things and sticks his foot in his mouth politically, but everyone knows Whole Foods is a Texas business - that's just an expected local quirk for Texans.
 
2013-01-18 04:51:52 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.


How would react to someone holding a gun to your head telling you to do what they thought was the morally correct thing to do and the way they wanted it done? What if it was a one-size fits all thing that you didn't think would work for your situation and preferred a different solution?

To another angle, isn't this idea that employers (or even government) should provide and care for us just a little too much like slavery or serfdom? It's little too much like those old company towns where the owner of the company tried to create some utopia and run the private lives of the employees. It seems to me that if this weren't about getting a hold on us, we could just get paid cash instead of having another party purchase health care insurance for us. Why can't we get employers and government out of this and just have a market where there is competition for our business?

What I see is far too many people not questioning how health care got the way it is, only assuming it has to be this way. Thus the solutions proposed will only serve to worsen the problem.
 
2013-01-18 05:01:23 PM

leadmetal: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

How would react to someone holding a gun to your head telling you to do what they thought was the morally correct thing to do and the way they wanted it done? What if it was a one-size fits all thing that you didn't think would work for your situation and preferred a different solution?

To another angle, isn't this idea that employers (or even government) should provide and care for us just a little too much like slavery or serfdom? It's little too much like those old company towns where the owner of the company tried to create some utopia and run the private lives of the employees. It seems to me that if this weren't about getting a hold on us, we could just get paid cash instead of having another party purchase health care insurance for us. Why can't we get employers and government out of this and just have a market where there is competition for our business?

What I see is far too many people not questioning how health care got the way it is, only assuming it has to be this way. Thus the solutions proposed will only serve to worsen the problem.


Agreed entirely.

Thank you, sir, for being rational, asking pertinent questions, and drawing a very reasonable 'conclusion.'
 
2013-01-18 05:12:26 PM

RoxtarRyan: Ivandrago: My local Whole Foods stopped selling bulk semolina so they can suck it.

I always cook my chicken thoroughly so I avoid having that. Don't want another stomach ache....

:D


Does this mean we have to drive to Tallahassee and get it from the source?
 
2013-01-18 05:13:33 PM
Of course he took it back, every single farking Republican that opens his mouth today has to back track on what they said. "Oh I didn't mean it literally" "It was a joke" "You need to read between the lines" "The words that come out of my mouth mean something different than what they mean."
 
2013-01-18 05:19:17 PM

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: Of course he took it back, every single farking Republican that opens his mouth today has to back track on what they said. "Oh I didn't mean it literally" "It was a joke" "You need to read between the lines" "The words that come out of my mouth mean something different than what they mean."


You're right, but you should also recognize that the Democrats (who are *people*, like Republicans) do the same. One year it's one thing, the next year.. or month.. or week.. it's another.

Again, we're back to the argument that smaller government is better. The fewer people that can change their minds, 'misspeak', or otherwise misrepresent, the better.
 
2013-01-18 05:20:07 PM

odinsposse: the crops they grow in their basement with their pocket mulch.


I'm a level 5 vegan
 
2013-01-18 05:21:47 PM
What's sad is that people with a lot of money foist off some ignorant political viewpoint on the world, they think something important happens. And so do we.
 
2013-01-18 05:22:11 PM
Like I needed an excuse not to shop at Whole Foods. Their prices are sometimes DOUBLE what Trader Joe's charges. If I really need that much selection of cheese I'll go to a cheese shop thank you.
 
2013-01-18 05:32:55 PM

Mach10: nexxus:
I think cap and trade was a sinister plot hatched by people who want to make as much money as possible, and so do most people involved in that space.

So which is it? You don't trust the profiteers to sort out the environment, but you're happy to let them into the healthcare hen-house?


No, you've misread or misunderstood me. I support neither Obamacare nor Cap-n-Trade I want very little government involvement in anything. I want 'them' to leave 'us' alone.

Live and let live. Smoke pot (or crack) if you want. Marry who you want to marry. Keep your money and spend it how you like. Buy insurance or not. Eat a Big Mac, 2 lbs of ribs, 2lbs of french fries, and a super size coke or two all at the same time, if you want. I couldn't care less, unless you're directly harming me or my family.

I fall, politically, somewhere near the intersection of libertarian, anarchocapitalist, and minarchist.
 
2013-01-18 05:32:58 PM

ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?


Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.
 
2013-01-18 05:33:37 PM

jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!


You're improperly conflating two unrelated issues.
 
2013-01-18 05:34:36 PM

All2morrowsparTs: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

Well, I assume that most people are adults and understand, that in a fuctioning society, there are some things that people need to be told what to do. That is why we have rules and regulation. A truely free market can't exist in a world where there is not perfect information and perfect competition. The invisible hand can't truly function unless there is another one to slap it sometimes.


I agree, generally, that we won't ever have a perfect system, but what we're doing now is pretty damn far from it, and getting 'worse' .. that's the issue.
 
2013-01-18 05:38:28 PM

PanicMan: ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?

Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.


We don't have..and haven't had for a long time.. a free market. It should be obvious that it can't regulate itself.
 
2013-01-18 05:39:24 PM

PanicMan: ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?

Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.


The market wasn't particularly free before.

And actual election outcomes at the time seem to imply desire for substantially more radical legislation. Obamacare can largely be attributed the fundamentally anti-democratic filibuster.
 
2013-01-18 05:48:13 PM

nexxus: PanicMan: ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?

Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.

We don't have..and haven't had for a long time.. a free market. It should be obvious that it can't regulate itself.


I agree with you. So then the government steps in and either does the job, or passes laws forcing the market to do it. That's pretty much the definition of government. I have no issues with this.
 
2013-01-18 05:50:31 PM
In business management 101, he should have learned not to offend his clientele. His hippie food store loses business every time he opens his flap. If his salary is minimum wage, he is not earning it.
 
2013-01-18 05:53:57 PM

jjorsett: There's nothing fascists hate more than being called fascists.


Fascist.
 
2013-01-18 05:57:28 PM

PanicMan: nexxus: PanicMan: ManRay: If it's not fascism as so many have pointed out, what is it? What can I call it?

Democracy.

Or a failure of the free market to self regulate. Whichever you prefer.

We don't have..and haven't had for a long time.. a free market. It should be obvious that it can't regulate itself.

I agree with you. So then the government steps in and either does the job, or passes laws forcing the market to do it. That's pretty much the definition of government. I have no issues with this.


While we agree that there's a problem and what the problem is, we seem to disagree on the solution.

I prefer eliminate the regulations/'controls' that created the original imbalance, rather than add more controls (and reduce freedom) which will likely have even more unintended, and often adverse, consequences.
 
2013-01-18 05:58:11 PM

macdaddy357: In business management 101, he should have learned not to offend his clientele. His hippie food store loses business every time he opens his flap. If his salary is minimum wage, he is not earning it.


I suppose that sounds good, at least, to someone. Somewhere.
 
2013-01-18 06:02:17 PM

nexxus: While we agree that there's a problem and what the problem is, we seem to disagree on the solution.


The problem is avarice as a codified aspect of "successful" business practices. The solution is to dismantle that component. History has shown that this is often accomplished with mob violence. I hope some of these masters of the universe have read it.
 
2013-01-18 06:11:36 PM

bunner: nexxus: While we agree that there's a problem and what the problem is, we seem to disagree on the solution.

The problem is avarice as a codified aspect of "successful" business practices. The solution is to dismantle that component. History has shown that this is often accomplished with mob violence. I hope some of these masters of the universe have read it.


The problem isn't the avarice of those in the business community (though that doesn't help). The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain; whether that gain is directly material or related to reelection varies. Either way, they very often put themselves first and that harms all of us.

That said, we *do* have a cultural problem that may end up being sorted out by the 'mob' .. we don't disagree there. I just hope whoever might initiate actions intended to bring about such a 'correction' knows enough to, and can, direct their (and the mob's) emotions appropriately.
 
2013-01-18 06:12:26 PM

jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!


You're not truly free until you're driving drunk on the left side of the road. Blindfolded.
 
2013-01-18 06:14:43 PM

Dansker: jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!

You're not truly free until you're driving drunk on the left side of the road. Blindfolded.


Ridiculous. No one is suggesting that anything of the sort is 'alright'. Wouldn't it be best to stick to the actual issue, or are you just trolling?
 
2013-01-18 06:17:49 PM

nexxus: Dansker: jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!

You're not truly free until you're driving drunk on the left side of the road. Blindfolded.

Ridiculous. No one is suggesting that anything of the sort is 'alright'. Wouldn't it be best to stick to the actual issue, or are you just trolling?


Get over yourself.
 
2013-01-18 06:18:29 PM

nexxus: The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain


Which, sadly, makes them an extension of the corporate culture and not a body of representative governance, Q.E.D. They joined the other team.
 
2013-01-18 06:21:46 PM

bunner: nexxus: The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain

Which, sadly, makes them an extension of the corporate culture and not a body of representative governance, Q.E.D. They joined the other team.


Agreed entirely, sir.
 
2013-01-18 06:23:42 PM

Dansker: nexxus: Dansker: jaytkay: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

That's why I make a point of driving drunk as much as possible.

Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!

You're not truly free until you're driving drunk on the left side of the road. Blindfolded.

Ridiculous. No one is suggesting that anything of the sort is 'alright'. Wouldn't it be best to stick to the actual issue, or are you just trolling?

Get over yourself.


I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.

Anyway, I'm not sure how I'd get over myself, even if I wanted to. I'm the center of my universe.
 
2013-01-18 06:26:46 PM

nexxus: bunner: nexxus: The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain

Which, sadly, makes them an extension of the corporate culture and not a body of representative governance, Q.E.D. They joined the other team.

Agreed entirely, sir.


And yet, we sit here, like orphaned children who are begrudged a seat at the table, tugging on their sleeves and sewing their patches on our coats, as if something is going to change or we might get access to a fork and a full plate. The system *is* fundamentally broken and it's not a matter of mechanics, it's a matter of decades of sh*tting where you eat and expecting it not to bite you on the ass. The next thirty years are either going to be the event horizon of something that will make the French revolution look like an afternoon tea in the Hamptons, or a slow but effective dismantling of corporate rule. I pray it is the latter.
 
2013-01-18 06:35:09 PM

nexxus:
I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.


I don't troll and I don't need an argument. I was just throwing a bit of flippant banter jatkay's way, as is Farkers' wont.
I wasn't addressing you, and I have no interest in talking to you. This is where we reach the end of my polite reply, you idiot.
 
2013-01-18 06:36:25 PM
All things arc and peak and recede. That's physics, ffs. The etch a sketch IS going to get shaken because there's nothing else TO do with it. The trick is who is holding it when it gets shaken. That's what dictates the aftermath. So far, we can't even get into the same room as the etch a sketch without waking up in Guantanamo. Convenient new set of laws, those.
 
2013-01-18 06:49:50 PM

bunner: nexxus: bunner: nexxus: The primary issue is avarice amongst those in government. They cave in to political and financial pressure for their own gain

Which, sadly, makes them an extension of the corporate culture and not a body of representative governance, Q.E.D. They joined the other team.

Agreed entirely, sir.

And yet, we sit here, like orphaned children who are begrudged a seat at the table, tugging on their sleeves and sewing their patches on our coats, as if something is going to change or we might get access to a fork and a full plate. The system *is* fundamentally broken and it's not a matter of mechanics, it's a matter of decades of sh*tting where you eat and expecting it not to bite you on the ass. The next thirty years are either going to be the event horizon of something that will make the French revolution look like an afternoon tea in the Hamptons, or a slow but effective dismantling of corporate rule. I pray it is the latter.


Agreed, again. Though even with a seat at the table there's little direct action to be taken. The 'machine' is too big and has too much momentum, and only small, gentle corrections can be made (short of the alternate you describe, in my opinion). The corrupt are entrenched, and, I think, in many cases only superficially understand that what they're doing is wrong or that there's any problem with it - "it's just how it is." As you said, things have been progressing for decades and that tends to blur any distinctions wrt behavior that might otherwise be clear.

Correcting this kind of 'bad behavior' - whether in corporate culture or in government - is extremely difficult; it often requires a 'rewrite' of belief systems (which may not ever actually 'take' - we're only so plastic). It's often much easier and preferable - again, in my opinion - to just replace the people 'gumming up the works'. Again, a very slow process, given the structure of our system.

Anyway, we're in agreement. Appreciate the dialogue.
 
2013-01-18 06:50:33 PM

Dansker: nexxus:
I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.

I don't troll and I don't need an argument. I was just throwing a bit of flippant banter jatkay's way, as is Farkers' wont.
I wasn't addressing you, and I have no interest in talking to you. This is where we reach the end of my polite reply, you idiot.


Great. Take care, idiot.
 
2013-01-18 06:53:50 PM

nexxus: Dansker: nexxus:
I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.

I don't troll and I don't need an argument. I was just throwing a bit of flippant banter jatkay's way, as is Farkers' wont.
I wasn't addressing you, and I have no interest in talking to you. This is where we reach the end of my polite reply, you idiot.

Great. Take care, idiot.


nexxus: Dansker: nexxus:
I certainly have no problem with trolling, and if that's what you're doing: good job. I've certainly done my share of it today.

But if you think your 'argument' is rational or something worthy of response, you're deluded.

I don't troll and I don't need an argument. I was just throwing a bit of flippant banter jatkay's way, as is Farkers' wont.
I wasn't addressing you, and I have no interest in talking to you. This is where we reach the end of my polite reply, you idiot.

Great. Take care, idiot.


At least I'm not a troll.
 
2013-01-18 06:54:40 PM

Dansker: At least I'm not a troll.


Okay.
 
2013-01-18 07:30:37 PM

Uncle Bester: Don't care, don't shop there, never will.

Business owners that wear their derpitude on their sleeves don't get my patronage.


Exactly. Business owners, musicians, actors, sportsmen/women, teachers, politicians...
 
2013-01-18 07:40:57 PM

ManRay: The government tells insurance companies what they have to cover, where they can sell their products and how much profit they can make. It is also going to require people to purchase those products or pay a fine.

But that's not the government controlling a segment of the economy or anything, it's just a light touch of regulation.


Just curious. Do you consider auto insurance laws fascism as well? What about seat belt laws? Pollution laws?
 
2013-01-18 08:01:03 PM
He sounds libertarian.  Or just a weird guy?

Seem to recall an incident where Mr. Mackey was caught writing an anonymous blog dissing Wild Oats.
 
2013-01-18 08:15:44 PM

Rapmaster2000: [farm8.staticflickr.com image 640x426]

This is how Mommy parks when taking Parker and Emma to pick up Annie's Organic Mac and Cheese.

Typical lib.  Right next to the lib with the Jesus fish.


I'll see your lib and raise you this...

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-01-18 08:37:12 PM
Once you open the bottle of Patchouli oil, you can't put the smell back in.
 
2013-01-18 09:07:45 PM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.


If they need to be told to treat their employees as human beings, then something's wrong with them and they need to be told what to do.
 
2013-01-18 09:11:08 PM
The Democrats in the 90s asked Michael Jordan if he could run as a Democratic Congressman for them, I'm not sure if it was state politics or federal but my recollection was that it was after he retired the first time, he told them that Republicans buy shoes so no he wouldn't.
If you're in the business of selling things, you don't alienate half of your market. Democrats and Republicans aren't all like their stereotypes, a ton of your customers vote differently to you and you rely on their money to keep running. Having a Republican government which you vocally support saving you 2% off of your tax bill can lose you 10% of your income if your customers get sick of listening to you and associate your political positions with your organisation.
 
2013-01-18 09:13:31 PM
I'd also like to point out now no one gave a shiat about Romneycare when Romney installed it in Massachusetts, but when Obama liked it so much he decided to make it national (without any changes, either) is when the shiatstorm struck and suddenly Romneycare was the most evil and socialist and Satanic thing to ever happen.
 
2013-01-18 09:32:03 PM

imgod2u: Just curious. Do you consider auto insurance laws fascism as well? What about seat belt laws? Pollution laws?


To be clear, the fascist part to me is the telling a company what it can sell and how much it can profit from it.

Auto Insurance: No. It's voluntary since I don't have to drive, and the required insurance is for liability.
Seat belt laws: No. But I have heard convincing arguments either way.
Pollution : In general no (as they are an extension of property rights).

I think that government has a legit role in regulation. My best friend is a radiation inspector for the NRC. I am glad he does that so I don't have to...the Agency is inspecting in my stead. It's when the Feds get in to profits and what and where you can sell I get off the train.
 
2013-01-18 09:38:42 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

If they need to be told to treat their employees as human beings, then something's wrong with them and they need to be told what to do.


Whether a company can afford to provide medical insurance has nothing to do with whether they see their employees as human, no matter how much you might like to think that it does. If someone doesn't like what company A is offering, they should work for company B.

You, apparently, think it's alright to hold a gun to company A's head and tell them to hand over their money.

Would vote for Wilson again, too, wouldn't you?
 
2013-01-18 09:50:58 PM
"Not intended as a factual statement" is the second to last refuge of the douchebag.
 
2013-01-18 10:00:13 PM
They try to make it seem like a commune, but it's a hard-edged, competitive business. The smallish organic store I go to continues to carry dried chicken strips for dogs which are made in China. I wrote them about it but they said there were no deaths related to these specific strips. But there had in fact been dog deaths related to others which were also made in China which is why I wrote in the first place. And the advertising on the package is totally false IMO. But it's a profit-maker and without profit there's no business.

While the store I go to is even more granola than Whole Foods, it's a veneer. I'm glad they're selling these items that the regular grocery store doesn't sell, like humanely raised, additive-free meats, and processed foods without BHA and BHT. But as always, it's buyer beware because they sell crap too.

It's a business like any other, servicing a niche market.
 
2013-01-18 10:02:05 PM

ManRay: imgod2u: Just curious. Do you consider auto insurance laws fascism as well? What about seat belt laws? Pollution laws?

To be clear, the fascist part to me is the telling a company what it can sell and how much it can profit from it.

Auto Insurance: No. It's voluntary since I don't have to drive, and the required insurance is for liability.
Seat belt laws: No. But I have heard convincing arguments either way.
Pollution : In general no (as they are an extension of property rights).

I think that government has a legit role in regulation. My best friend is a radiation inspector for the NRC. I am glad he does that so I don't have to...the Agency is inspecting in my stead. It's when the Feds get in to profits and what and where you can sell I get off the train.


Trusting the government to tell you there's no risk from radionuclides (or any other environmental toxin) is unwise.

After the 2010 Gulf Oil Spill, many, many people were made seriously ill.. and some even died.. but you hardly heard a word about it. There was little to no air quality or other environmental testing, and little to no discussion about the dangers of being in proximity to a spill. In fact, they repeatedly told everyone they were safe, while refusing to test the air or acknowledge its contamination. I was sick, myself, for a year before figuring out why, and when I had my blood tested in a gas chromatograph and mass spec. it showed I had extremely high levels of ethylbenzene (which is a byproduct of benzene metabolism) (I had ~8x the 2009 CDC NHANES 95th percentile level), hexane, xylene, methylpentane, isooctane, and several other toxic volatiles (and who knows what else that wasn't tested for). I ended up with nerve damage because I was (we were) told it was safe to be there.. repeatedly.. and it wasn't. Where was the EPA? I'll tell you.. they tested *once* in my area.. when the wind was out of the North.. so they were farking nowhere. That's where they were. *crickets*

And what else can we thank our government for during the spill? The US Airforce (C-130s) sprayed my neighborhood and people on the beaches repeatedly with Corexit 9500/9527, which is a highly toxic and carcinogenic oil dispersant. "Let's cover up this messy oil, fark the people who live there, they'll either get over it or die. To hell with them, we can't evacuate 'em, so let's not panic 'em or we'll have a real problem and the economies will collapse. Spray, spray, spray!"

Same thing happened in Alaska following the Exxon-Valdez spill.

Fark them; they're little better than murderers, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, as a point of interest, during and after the Fukushima disaster I happened to be driving all over the country, and I took rain samples and measured them for radioactivity (geiger counter). I found a *significant*.. sometimes 20, 30, 40x background (1000cpm, that I measured, even, in some cases) .. amount of radiation coming down in the rain. But you didn't hear a thing about that, either, did you?

I'm so glad our government is here to protect us. They've got our backs.
 
2013-01-18 10:11:00 PM

jjorsett: There's nothing fascists hate more than being called fascists.


... Except minorities.
 
2013-01-18 10:11:38 PM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

If they need to be told to treat their employees as human beings, then something's wrong with them and they need to be told what to do.

Whether a company can afford to provide medical insurance has nothing to do with whether they see their employees as human, no matter how much you might like to think that it does. If someone doesn't like what company A is offering, they should work for company B.

You, apparently, think it's alright to hold a gun to company A's head and tell them to hand over their money.

Would vote for Wilson again, too, wouldn't you?


How does "provide health insurance" = "hand over money"? Why is this always a "government is taking away everything" issue to some people?
 
2013-01-18 10:14:46 PM

nexxus: ManRay: imgod2u: Just curious. Do you consider auto insurance laws fascism as well? What about seat belt laws? Pollution laws?

To be clear, the fascist part to me is the telling a company what it can sell and how much it can profit from it.

Auto Insurance: No. It's voluntary since I don't have to drive, and the required insurance is for liability.
Seat belt laws: No. But I have heard convincing arguments either way.
Pollution : In general no (as they are an extension of property rights).

I think that government has a legit role in regulation. My best friend is a radiation inspector for the NRC. I am glad he does that so I don't have to...the Agency is inspecting in my stead. It's when the Feds get in to profits and what and where you can sell I get off the train.

Trusting the government to tell you there's no risk from radionuclides (or any other environmental toxin) is unwise.

After the 2010 Gulf Oil Spill, many, many people were made seriously ill.. and some even died.. but you hardly heard a word about it. There was little to no air quality or other environmental testing, and little to no discussion about the dangers of being in proximity to a spill. In fact, they repeatedly told everyone they were safe, while refusing to test the air or acknowledge its contamination. I was sick, myself, for a year before figuring out why, and when I had my blood tested in a gas chromatograph and mass spec. it showed I had extremely high levels of ethylbenzene (which is a byproduct of benzene metabolism) (I had ~8x the 2009 CDC NHANES 95th percentile level), hexane, xylene, methylpentane, isooctane, and several other toxic volatiles (and who knows what else that wasn't tested for). I ended up with nerve damage because I was (we were) told it was safe to be there.. repeatedly.. and it wasn't. Where was the EPA? I'll tell you.. they tested *once* in my area.. when the wind was out of the North.. so they were farking nowhere. That's where they were. *crickets*

And wha ...


Yeah, somehow I'm unable to believe you. Maybe if it sounded less like the plot to a Steven Seagal movie.
 
2013-01-18 10:28:48 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Yeah, somehow I'm unable to believe you. Maybe if it sounded less like the plot to a Steven Seagal movie.


It's much easier to call me a liar, isn't it.

www.anony.ws
 
2013-01-18 10:37:26 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: It's amazing how so many employers see having to treat their employees like human beings and provide them medical insurance = socialism, fascism, and whatever other evil-sounding terms they can think of.

Or maybe they just object to being told what to do, like most people.

If they need to be told to treat their employees as human beings, then something's wrong with them and they need to be told what to do.

Whether a company can afford to provide medical insurance has nothing to do with whether they see their employees as human, no matter how much you might like to think that it does. If someone doesn't like what company A is offering, they should work for company B.

You, apparently, think it's alright to hold a gun to company A's head and tell them to hand over their money.

Would vote for Wilson again, too, wouldn't you?

How does "provide health insurance" = "hand over money"? Why is this always a "government is taking away everything" issue to some people?


Someone has to pay for the insurance, no? How is it not obvious that forcing a business to buy something against their will (and fining them if they don't) is the equivalent of taking their money?
 
2013-01-18 10:38:17 PM

nexxus: I guess I don't see what was wrong with what he said.

Let's break it down:
* 'Obamacare and stripping gunrights = Fascism.' Clear there's a debate here, so it's a reasonable statement relating his point of view.
* 'All power to the state, none to the individual.' The state is taking more power and you're left with less. QED.


I haven't studied out Obamacare so, I'm just talking out of my arse here.

But it ensures a basic level of healthcare for all Americans, no? How is this bad for individuals?

* 'And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system?' Legitimate question.
* 'Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole?' I can't imagine anyone thinks the people who work in government aren't, by and large, idiots. Obamacare does increase 'dole'.
* 'To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them.' You can't, and it is a shame.


Yes, because healthcare reform in the US is exactly like North Korean work camps.

For a more realistic analogy, how about Western Europe,

Government healthcare - the NHS - is not perfect in the UK. But it provides a safety net for those not able to afford private healthcare.

In the past couple of years, my mother's survived breast cancer, and I've been on several prescribed medications. Up front cost? £0. Of course, we've all paid for it indirectly through taxation, but that taxation provides essential services we all need at some point.

* 'A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.' This does happen, and it is too bad you can't talk to them.
* 'Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.' Maybe he shouldn't have called you idiots (though it does apply, mostly), but you do cheer when your freedoms are stripped away. Makes no sense to me.
Again, I don't see the problem. Care to respond point-by-point, hon?


It seems that Americans are getting raped by private healthcare companies ripping them off as much as they can:

ucatlas.ucsc.edu

There's a tremendous irony in that graph, in that the peak of US spending is right beside the trough of Cuban spending, yet the US only just edges out Cuba for life expectancy.
upload.wikimedia.org
/Enjoy wasting your money on an inefficient system.
 
2013-01-18 10:46:03 PM

iron de havilland: nexxus: I guess I don't see what was wrong with what he said.

Let's break it down:
* 'Obamacare and stripping gunrights = Fascism.' Clear there's a debate here, so it's a reasonable statement relating his point of view.
* 'All power to the state, none to the individual.' The state is taking more power and you're left with less. QED.

I haven't studied out Obamacare so, I'm just talking out of my arse here.

But it ensures a basic level of healthcare for all Americans, no? How is this bad for individuals?

* 'And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system?' Legitimate question.
* 'Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole?' I can't imagine anyone thinks the people who work in government aren't, by and large, idiots. Obamacare does increase 'dole'.
* 'To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them.' You can't, and it is a shame.

Yes, because healthcare reform in the US is exactly like North Korean work camps.

For a more realistic analogy, how about Western Europe,

Government healthcare - the NHS - is not perfect in the UK. But it provides a safety net for those not able to afford private healthcare.

In the past couple of years, my mother's survived breast cancer, and I've been on several prescribed medications. Up front cost? £0. Of course, we've all paid for it indirectly through taxation, but that taxation provides essential services we all need at some point.

* 'A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.' This does happen, and it is too bad you can't talk to them.
* 'Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.' Maybe he shouldn't have called you idiots (though it does apply, mostly), but you do cheer whe ...


I agree with, and appreciate, almost everything you've said here, but I can't support forcing one person to pay for another; can't support forcing one to be responsible for their neighbor's life. Some people may want to take that on, but I'm not one of them, and I don't and wouldn't expect anyone to be responsible for me.

/our system is horribly corrupt and wasteful.
//glad to hear your mother survived cancer.
 
2013-01-18 10:47:12 PM

Oh wait, I just read the thread a few links down, whose article contains this quote:


"Love it. We had to let two employees go to cover new Obongocare [sic] costs and increased taxes," Lee wrote. "Found two Obongo supporters and gave them the news yesterday. They wanted the idiot in the Whitehouse [sic], they reap the benefits."

Contacted by The Tribune Thursday, Lee said he picked the two employees in large part on the basis of their politics.

"They were Obama supporters. We just knew they were," Lee said. "I implied that sort of tongue and cheek [in the comments section] but there were other issues, too. They were not top performers."

I guess I'd forgotten how poorly educated and racist many Americans are.
 
2013-01-18 10:47:50 PM

nexxus: Trusting the government to tell you there's no risk from radionuclides (or any other environmental toxin) is unwise.


I don't necessarily trust the Government. I trust him.
 
2013-01-18 10:48:38 PM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: Yeah, somehow I'm unable to believe you. Maybe if it sounded less like the plot to a Steven Seagal movie.

It's much easier to call me a liar, isn't it.

[www.anony.ws image 467x613]


Hey, I can believe the pollutants part, but the "Obama and the government lied and tried to kill us all and that's how it was for everyone and everything involved" part was just a bit too out there.

nexxus: Someone has to pay for the insurance, no? How is it not obvious that forcing a business to buy something against their will (and fining them if they don't) is the equivalent of taking their money?


Yeah, if a business doesn't want to provide health care to its employees, why should it? That's evil and fascist and cuts into the far more important profits. Never mind that small businesses with less than 50 employees are exempt and you'd think mega-corporations would have more than enough money to spend a paltry few more on making sure its employees stayed healthy and productive.

Again, no one gave a shiat about Romneycare when Romney did it in Massachusetts, why is it suddenly so horrible when Obama does it, unchanged, for the entire country? Would you be against it if Romney had been president and decided to make it national?
 
2013-01-18 10:49:58 PM
You would think after the half dozenth time this happened this year, CEOs would shut the fark up in public about their political beliefs for the sake of their business ... but NO. Morons deserve what they get.
 
2013-01-18 10:55:52 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: Yeah, somehow I'm unable to believe you. Maybe if it sounded less like the plot to a Steven Seagal movie.

It's much easier to call me a liar, isn't it.

[www.anony.ws image 467x613]

Hey, I can believe the pollutants part, but the "Obama and the government lied and tried to kill us all and that's how it was for everyone and everything involved" part was just a bit too out there.

nexxus: Someone has to pay for the insurance, no? How is it not obvious that forcing a business to buy something against their will (and fining them if they don't) is the equivalent of taking their money?

Yeah, if a business doesn't want to provide health care to its employees, why should it? That's evil and fascist and cuts into the far more important profits. Never mind that small businesses with less than 50 employees are exempt and you'd think mega-corporations would have more than enough money to spend a paltry few more on making sure its employees stayed healthy and productive.

Again, no one gave a shiat about Romneycare when Romney did it in Massachusetts, why is it suddenly so horrible when Obama does it, unchanged, for the entire country? Would you be against it if Romney had been president and decided to make it national?


You didn't really respond to my point, but I'll respond to yours:
What's wrong with letting every business decide for itself what it wants to .. or can afford to.. offer? Can't employees choose between company A and company B, or must all companies offer the exact same comp.?

Do you think all businesses can afford the same things? Do you think businesses are magic money trees?

And again, why do you think it's right to force anyone to do anything? That's what this is, isn't it?

Why are businesses with 50 employees different than those that have 49? Or 4900?

Your 'arguments' aren't even remotely logical, or even .. arguments.. really.

And to your second issue: I'd be against it no matter who tried to do it. I am as much anti-Romney as I am anti-Obama. Republicans and Democrats aren't much different, really. I'm sure if you spend a little time thinking about this, you'll see it clearly.
 
2013-01-18 11:02:08 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Hey, I can believe the pollutants part, but the "Obama and the government lied and tried to kill us all and that's how it was for everyone and everything involved" part was just a bit too out there.


I didn't say they actively tried to kill us. I said that they were either negligent and didn't test, or they tested and chose not to make public how contaminated the environment was. I also said that they chose to spray a toxic chemical on the oil to sink it without telling us what was going on or warning us to leave. And I didn't say they purposefully sprayed us with Corexit.. the pilots just turned the pump switches on a bit early on multiple occasions. Yes, seriously.

And no, not everyone got sick. Most of the people in my neighborhood, and many up and down the coast were, but not everyone. The people closest to the water, the young, old, and/or infirm (with pre-existing conditions and/or liver/detox dysfunction), as you would expect, were hardest hit. Unfortunately, most people who did get sick were diagnosed with other conditions and treated unsuccessfully, as there are very, very few doctors who can identify environmental illness or have even a basic understanding of toxicology.
 
2013-01-18 11:07:00 PM

ManRay: nexxus: Trusting the government to tell you there's no risk from radionuclides (or any other environmental toxin) is unwise.

I don't necessarily trust the Government. I trust him.


Understood.
 
2013-01-18 11:34:23 PM

nexxus: You didn't really respond to my point, but I'll respond to yours:
What's wrong with letting every business decide for itself what it wants to .. or can afford to.. offer? Can't employees choose between company A and company B, or must all companies offer the exact same comp.?

Do you think all businesses can afford the same things? Do you think businesses are magic money trees?

And again, why do you think it's right to force anyone to do anything? That's what this is, isn't it?

Why are businesses with 50 employees different than those that have 49? Or 4900?

Your 'arguments' aren't even remotely logical, or even .. arguments.. really.

And to your second issue: I'd be against it no matter who tried to do it. I am as much anti-Romney as I am anti-Obama. Republicans and Democrats aren't much different, really. I'm sure if you spend a little time thinking about this, you'll see it clearly.


I remember when businesses were allowed to do as they please. The results were a mangled environment, workers being slave labor that were worth less than the machines they operated, and CEOs who were more mob boss than business owner. That's why government steeped in in the first place. Apparently you would rather we go back to that because "OUR FREEDOMS!!". Or, more appropriately "the CEOs freedoms, fark the employees".

Everyone offering the same thing makes it easier than a bunch of competing things, especially when it comes to something like health care which should NOT be seen as a money-making enterprise.

Because small business with few employees are the most likely to struggle and be unable to afford it. It's one of the many things that Obama made EASIER for small businesses to cope with, despite what conservatives like to scream about "OBAMA HATES SMALL BUSINESSES HE'S TRYING TO DESTROY THEM!!". If you're a big company with lots of employees, you're obviously well-off.

Ah, so you're a Fark Libertarian who thinks both sides are bad. Guess that explains everything.
 
2013-01-18 11:51:08 PM
F*ck you, Randroid libertardian "Objectivist" retard.

Seriously. You are a GROWNUP now.

WTF is wrong with you?
 
2013-01-19 12:32:51 AM

iron de havilland: nexxus: I guess I don't see what was wrong with what he said.

Let's break it down:
* 'Obamacare and stripping gunrights = Fascism.' Clear there's a debate here, so it's a reasonable statement relating his point of view.
* 'All power to the state, none to the individual.' The state is taking more power and you're left with less. QED.

I haven't studied out Obamacare so, I'm just talking out of my arse here.

But it ensures a basic level of healthcare for all Americans, no? How is this bad for individuals?

* 'And for his supporters out there, do you really think you're going to benefit from this system?' Legitimate question.
* 'Do you really think the idiots who end up in government are going to take care of all your needs while you sit around doing nothing, waiting for your government dole?' I can't imagine anyone thinks the people who work in government aren't, by and large, idiots. Obamacare does increase 'dole'.
* 'To bad you can't ask the government slaves in North Korea or China how that's working out for them.' You can't, and it is a shame.

Yes, because healthcare reform in the US is exactly like North Korean work camps.

For a more realistic analogy, how about Western Europe,

Government healthcare - the NHS - is not perfect in the UK. But it provides a safety net for those not able to afford private healthcare.

In the past couple of years, my mother's survived breast cancer, and I've been on several prescribed medications. Up front cost? £0. Of course, we've all paid for it indirectly through taxation, but that taxation provides essential services we all need at some point.

* 'A life of forced military conscription or factory work in exchange for a starving, hopeless, spartan existence doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.' This does happen, and it is too bad you can't talk to them.
* 'Yet you idiots gleefully cheer Obama when he strips rights and freedoms.' Maybe he shouldn't have called you idiots (though it does apply, mostly), but you do cheer whe ...


Thanks for the graph that shows Americans spend more money to live longer BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE MONEY as a result of historically low taxes. Historically low... That's history and so is our children's chances for prosperity as they now owe more than most people on this planet earn in a lifetime.
 
2013-01-19 12:38:47 AM

raatz01: You would think after the half dozenth time this happened this year, CEOs would shut the fark up in public about their political beliefs for the sake of their business ... but NO. Morons deserve what they get.


You'd think the same about anyone with a different opinion than you, but fortunately us Americans have this pesky thing called the 1st Amendment, which fascists liberals like you would prefer to throw out circumstantially. Gotta love the left... They ALWAYS want to control your speech.
 
2013-01-19 01:20:14 AM

tjfly: Thanks for the graph that shows Americans spend more money to live longer BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE MONEY as a result of historically low taxes. Historically low... That's history and so is our children's chances for prosperity as they now owe more than most people on this planet earn in a lifetime.


And because of those historically low taxes, coupled with two pointless wars on a credit card and the housing debacle, America's economy nearly collapsed. Meanwhile we still spend more than twice the amount of the next five countries combined to create weapons of war, while the right demands that all social safety systems be destroyed because fark the poor and middle-class.

tjfly: You'd think the same about anyone with a different opinion than you, but fortunately us Americans have this pesky thing called the 1st Amendment, which fascists liberals like you would prefer to throw out circumstantially. Gotta love the left... They ALWAYS want to control your speech.


I love how you take what he said as he's demanding stripping Americans of their First Amendment rights in order to bullshiat about your hatred of liberals, instead of what he actually meant, which was "Maybe one day these people will stop stuffing their feet into their mouth by saying stupid shiat that backfires on them". Did you also whine about the response to Chik-Fil-A being about the First Amendment, because it wasn't at all, it was another example of an idiot saying something idiotic and facing the consequences of what he said.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you're free from the consequences of your speech, or the responses from others. Conservatives seem to have trouble understanding this concept.
 
2013-01-19 03:27:17 AM

iron de havilland: /Enjoy wasting your money on an inefficient system.


But.. Muslim, Soshlist freedom hating comm'nists!1!
 
2013-01-19 04:22:46 AM

JohnnyC: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: JohnnyC: Yeah... backpedal all you want, John Mackey. Perhaps in the future you will refrain from expressing your ridiculous opinions in public. I don't believe for a second that he didn't mean it. Bottom line is... he doesn't want to provide healthcare to his employees and thus may eat a bowl of dicks.

He does provide healthcare for him employees.

But don't let facts taint a good thrashing post.

I said, "Want"... and 70 to 75 percent of them do. Fark the other 25-30%, eh?


And this is a big part of the issue. Should companies really have to get health insurance for EVERYONE? Even the janitor? Even the part-timers?
 
2013-01-19 05:30:04 AM

tjfly:
Thanks for the graph that shows Americans spend more money to live longer BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE MONEY as a result of historically low taxes.


No, that's not the reason. Close to half of your health care expenditures are in tax dollars. Last I checked you actually spend more taxes on healthcare per capita than we do in Denmark, and we get universal coverage for our money.
 
2013-01-19 08:59:43 AM

Dansker: tjfly:
Thanks for the graph that shows Americans spend more money to live longer BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE MONEY as a result of historically low taxes.

No, that's not the reason. Close to half of your health care expenditures are in tax dollars. Last I checked you actually spend more taxes on healthcare per capita than we do in Denmark, and we get universal coverage for our money.


Yeah, uh, it's mostly designed to make people rich. Our "better care" is out of reach for most people and our taxes ain't that low and we don't get much for them and wealthy people never pay them. So, yeah, uh... The Great American Exceptionalism is a largely a con. Sorry. : \
 
2013-01-19 09:33:49 AM

nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: nexxus: Keizer_Ghidorah: Yeah, somehow I'm unable to believe you. Maybe if it sounded less like the plot to a Steven Seagal movie.

It's much easier to call me a liar, isn't it.

[www.anony.ws image 467x613]

Hey, I can believe the pollutants part, but the "Obama and the government lied and tried to kill us all and that's how it was for everyone and everything involved" part was just a bit too out there.

nexxus: Someone has to pay for the insurance, no? How is it not obvious that forcing a business to buy something against their will (and fining them if they don't) is the equivalent of taking their money?

Yeah, if a business doesn't want to provide health care to its employees, why should it? That's evil and fascist and cuts into the far more important profits. Never mind that small businesses with less than 50 employees are exempt and you'd think mega-corporations would have more than enough money to spend a paltry few more on making sure its employees stayed healthy and productive.

Again, no one gave a shiat about Romneycare when Romney did it in Massachusetts, why is it suddenly so horrible when Obama does it, unchanged, for the entire country? Would you be against it if Romney had been president and decided to make it national?

You didn't really respond to my point, but I'll respond to yours:
What's wrong with letting every business decide for itself what it wants to .. or can afford to.. offer? Can't employees choose between company A and company B, or must all companies offer the exact same comp.?

Do you think all businesses can afford the same things? Do you think businesses are magic money trees?

And again, why do you think it's right to force anyone to do anything? That's what this is, isn't it?

Why are businesses with 50 employees different than those that have 49? Or 4900?

Your 'arguments' aren't even remotely logical, or even .. arguments.. really.

And to your second issue: I'd be against it no matter who tried to do it. I ...


jigger: JosephFinn: Rihlsul: GoodyearPimp: How much energy can you create by backpedaling so furiously?

It's interesting, too, because reading the whole quote, he's not wrong that it's a fascist policy,

Unless of course you actually look up what fascism is and know that he's incredibly, completely wrong.

It's a fairly nebulous term and there's no rock solid definition of a fascist government. Some people would describe it as "socialism without democracy." Others would say it happens when private interests commandeer the state and/or merge with it. This latter was a definition shared by Mussolini and FDR. By many common definitions it's when corporations run the government. Rest assured, this would never happen in the USA.


Sorry, it's not nebulous at all:

1: often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

- fas·cist noun or adjective often capitalized
- fas·cis·tic adjective often capitalized
- fas·cis·ti·cal·ly adverb often capitalized
 
2013-01-19 10:11:18 AM
I'd rather shop at Wegman's than either Whole Foods OR Trader Joe's. Same quality stuff, no ridiculous prices.
 
2013-01-19 12:41:49 PM
Sadly, Wegmans hates America and is only in the East. Otherwise I'd shop there too.
 
2013-01-19 06:27:27 PM
Reminds me of the Dixie Chicks Bush bashing at a Country Western concert.... learn your target audience.
 
2013-01-20 01:34:57 AM

Linkage: Reminds me of the Dixie Chicks Bush bashing at a Country Western concert.... learn your target audience.


Or, you know, be an artist because you create art and a musician because you make music, but refuse to kiss any ass stuck in your face. I've looked into the organic foods thing, btw and apparently, all food is organic.
 
2013-01-20 05:44:02 AM

Linkage: Reminds me of the Dixie Chicks Bush bashing at a Country Western concert.... learn your target audience.


It was at a concert in London, and it wasn't the audience who had a problem with it.
 
2013-01-20 11:20:25 PM

Dansker: Linkage: Reminds me of the Dixie Chicks Bush bashing at a Country Western concert.... learn your target audience.

It was at a concert in London, and it wasn't the audience who had a problem with it.


But they were so anti-American, being mean to the President like that. And if you're mean to the President, you support the terrorists and want democracy to burn.
 
Displayed 332 of 332 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report