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(D Magazine)   Q&A with MST3K creator Joel Hodgson. "Capitalism works really great for a lot of things but not for healthcare because when you have cancer you can't really bargain shop"   (frontrow.dmagazine.com) divider line 66
    More: Amusing, Joe Hodgson, The Hands of Fate, Harry Chapin, The Killers, Oh yeah, Ben Kingsley, Mothers of Invention, Freak Out  
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1694 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 18 Jan 2013 at 11:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-18 09:30:06 AM
That's not the only characteristic which distinguishes the economics of health care from that of other industries. Unfortunately, a lot of people think health care works exactly like every other enterprise, which is to say exactly like a lemonade stand run by a six year old.
 
2013-01-18 09:33:05 AM
Back to the satellite Joe. In the US its all about the money. Sadly.
 
2013-01-18 09:34:29 AM
Joe?
 
2013-01-18 09:40:19 AM
At long last, new fodder for the Joel v. Mike debate. Contrast to Mike Nelson's Republicanism. Hm. I still take Mike.
 
2013-01-18 09:41:39 AM

propasaurus: Joe?


I know.  Just let Subby run with it.  He's on a roll.
 
2013-01-18 09:55:34 AM
That's why you got shot up into space, commie.
 
2013-01-18 09:57:01 AM

rumpelstiltskin: That's not the only characteristic which distinguishes the economics of health care from that of other industries. Unfortunately, a lot of people think health care works exactly like every other enterprise, which is to say exactly like a lemonade stand run by a six year old.


Most six-year-olds don't have to invest in four years of college, four years of medical school with tuition totaling well into six figures followed by years of residency and fellowships slogging for little pay and long hours, sometimes for seven or eight years for some of the more complex specialties like oncology just to be able to even have a license to make lemonade, so who exactly are these people arguing it's just like a six-year-old running a lemonade stand?  I'd like to meet them because I have some real estate investment opportunities to offer them.
 
2013-01-18 10:41:20 AM

Nabb1: who exactly are these people arguing it's just like a six-year-old running a lemonade stand


You will find many of them in a building located at 200 D Street, S.W., Washington, D.C.
 
2013-01-18 10:52:52 AM
Joe > Mark
 
2013-01-18 10:59:35 AM
If you're asking yourself how they eat and breathe, and other science facts la la la.
Just repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax...
And watch Mystery Science Theatre 3000! Daaaaaauuuuuunnnnnnnn.
 
2013-01-18 10:59:51 AM

Nabb1: rumpelstiltskin: That's not the only characteristic which distinguishes the economics of health care from that of other industries. Unfortunately, a lot of people think health care works exactly like every other enterprise, which is to say exactly like a lemonade stand run by a six year old.

Most six-year-olds don't have to invest in four years of college, four years of medical school with tuition totaling well into six figures followed by years of residency and fellowships slogging for little pay and long hours, sometimes for seven or eight years for some of the more complex specialties like oncology just to be able to even have a license to make lemonade, so who exactly are these people arguing it's just like a six-year-old running a lemonade stand?  I'd like to meet them because I have some real estate investment opportunities to offer them.


Most oncologists aren't in it for the money. There are easier ways to make a 6- or 7-figure income.
 
2013-01-18 11:07:39 AM
You can call me a commie, a socialist, or whatever, but I don't think that healthcare, or even pharmaceuticals, should be a for-profit business.
With a profit motive, there is always an incentive to provide the cheapest service for the highest price. The goal would be long-term treatment instead of a cure. And research would always be done to find the best-selling drug, rather than the one that does the most good.
 
2013-01-18 11:13:35 AM

give me doughnuts: Most oncologists aren't in it for the money. There are easier ways to make a 6- or 7-figure income.


Pretty much this. Especially if they're an oncology fellow or resident. The fun fact is that you can make more a year as a manager of a fast food joint than a Resident in Medical School. And come out oweing a bank less in the end, too.

Maybe you should actually read what an actual oncologist has to say about the profit gambit.

/Jaw dropped when I was told by a resident seeking a fellowship at St. Jude for oncology that he'd be making 40,000 a year for the next four years as a MD.
 
2013-01-18 11:15:03 AM
With public healthcare the doctors get their money AND people get cured.

For profit healthcare leads to lives ruined after an ER visit instead of upholding the oath.
 
2013-01-18 11:19:18 AM

rumpelstiltskin: That's not the only characteristic which distinguishes the economics of health care from that of other industries. Unfortunately, a lot of people think health care works exactly like every other enterprise, which is to say exactly like a lemonade stand run by a six year old.


It really amazes me how many otherwise intelligent people think that they could just simply say, "Fine! Me and my pre-existing condition will just take our business elsewhere!" if they ever get dicked over by their insurance company.
 
2013-01-18 11:50:29 AM

give me doughnuts: Nabb1: rumpelstiltskin: That's not the only characteristic which distinguishes the economics of health care from that of other industries. Unfortunately, a lot of people think health care works exactly like every other enterprise, which is to say exactly like a lemonade stand run by a six year old.

Most six-year-olds don't have to invest in four years of college, four years of medical school with tuition totaling well into six figures followed by years of residency and fellowships slogging for little pay and long hours, sometimes for seven or eight years for some of the more complex specialties like oncology just to be able to even have a license to make lemonade, so who exactly are these people arguing it's just like a six-year-old running a lemonade stand?  I'd like to meet them because I have some real estate investment opportunities to offer them.

Most oncologists aren't in it for the money. There are easier ways to make a 6- or 7-figure income.


My point wasn't about the money.  It was about the lemonade stand comment being a straw man.

Residents and fellows are lowballed, though.
 
2013-01-18 12:03:07 PM

BKITU: Joe > Mark


Radio's Frink>All
 
2013-01-18 12:14:22 PM
I'm here to make you an incredible offer! Half off brain surgery! Find a better price from a competitor? I'll beat it! My hammerthesiologist and I bought too many brains to surge and now we're overstocked! Our mistake is your gain! 'Cuz we're HUGEah! or Crazy! Whatever works for you!
 
2013-01-18 12:16:02 PM
Now I'm getting all nostalgic for the good old channel 23 days. Sigh.
 
2013-01-18 12:16:09 PM

Vash's Apprentice: BKITU: Joe > Mark

Radio's Frink>All


What, no love for K. The Beatles Steinberg?
 
2013-01-18 12:17:47 PM
BTW about 1 dozen Cinematic Titanic episodes are on Hulu right now. And they are very good and as a Mike partisan it pains me to say, that they are almost all superior to any of the Rifftrax I've seen.
 
2013-01-18 12:19:22 PM
The thing with healthcare is that the power of the consumer to wait for a better price is nonexistent. If you have cancer then you can't delay your cancer treatment purchase for a better deal.
 
2013-01-18 12:20:49 PM

puckrock2000: Vash's Apprentice: BKITU: Joe > Mark

Radio's Frink>All

What, no love for K. The Beatles Steinberg?


I HATE TIM SPORTO'S NEW VOICE!!!
 
2013-01-18 12:23:48 PM
With capitalism the bottom line is the money to be made not the service to be provided.
 
2013-01-18 12:24:01 PM
Joseph was certainly better than that 2 bit hack Mickey Nelson, whippersnappers!

/subby fail
 
2013-01-18 12:24:26 PM

give me doughnuts: You can call me a commie, a socialist, or whatever, but I don't think that healthcare, or even pharmaceuticals, should be a for-profit business.
With a profit motive, there is always an incentive to provide the cheapest service for the highest price. The goal would be long-term treatment instead of a cure. And research would always be done to find the best-selling drug, rather than the one that does the most good.


I can tell by your comment you're educated enough to know what an actual commie or socialist is...so don't worry about what the average american says about your comment. They're too ignorant and brainwashed to understand your point of view.
 
2013-01-18 12:24:51 PM

BronyMedic: /Jaw dropped when I was told by a resident seeking a fellowship at St. Jude for oncology that he'd be making 40,000 a year for the next four years as a MD.


My jaw would drop too. My company does a lot of repeat business with several different oncologists in the pac nw. I have no doubt these guys paid their dues but if there's a single one of them we've worked with that makes less than ten times 40k I'll eat my hat. In my zip code the median is $290k.
 
2013-01-18 12:26:35 PM

kronicfeld: At long last, new fodder for the Joel v. Mike debate. Contrast to Mike Nelson's Republicanism. Hm. I still take Mike.


Yeah, well Mike went to US-Stout (or at least has the t-shirt), so what does he know?

4.bp.blogspot.com
/Flunking out? Got to Stout!
 
2013-01-18 12:26:40 PM

error 303: Now I'm getting all nostalgic for the good old channel 23 days. Sigh.


Yeah, I caught the first episode that aired on Thanksgiving IIRC back in the late 80s. It took me a while to even notice the puppets and Joel and once I did I remember thinking, "WTF?".

Wish I had fired up the vcr. Supposedly those first couple episodes were lost or destroyed.
 
2013-01-18 12:28:02 PM
Often times on this subject people conflate capitalism with an actual free market. Not necessarily saying this is happening here, mind you. But I feel it's worth noting that the two elements are not the same. Voluntary markets include entities and practices that capitalism does not have, like non-profits, charities, co-ops and support groups. These things do help curb costs while helping those who have actual need.

And in some situations one CAN bargain shop in health care for available doctors, surgeons, etc., but the USA has coerced many out of this practice through subsidies, programs and the FDA being a strict gatekeeper on drugs that are otherwise already used elsewhere around the globe. So it's also fair to say our government has assisted in ensuring our choices remain limited in medicine and our health care remains costly enough to lock-step us into big health insurance schemes. This is what is called crony-capitalism, aka "fascism lite" or the fox guarding the hen house.
 
2013-01-18 12:30:32 PM

GameSprocket: /Flunking out? Go to Stout!


If in doubt, go to Stout. If not there, try Eau Claire.
 
2013-01-18 12:31:36 PM

Vodka Zombie: propasaurus: Joe?

I know.  Just let Subby run with it.  He's on a roll.


WAS IT OVER WHEN JOE BOMBED PEARL?
 
2013-01-18 12:36:52 PM

kronicfeld: At long last, new fodder for the Joel v. Mike debate. Contrast to Mike Nelson's Republicanism. Hm. I still take Mike.


I'll opt for TV's Frank.

/subscribed to his FB
//dude never shuts up, thankfully
 
2013-01-18 12:49:15 PM
There is a person on this very site that insisted if they were refused coverage for cancer from their insurance they would simply sue and take their business elsewhere. This was prior to Obamacare protections for pre-existing conditions.

He actually believed this, and it was his entire rationale for opposing UHC. You see, you can't take your business elsewhere when them gummermint death-o-crats want to death panel you and harvest your organs. The benevolent people in the insurance industry would have his back though.
 
2013-01-18 12:50:39 PM
Oh and I just watched Bride Of The Monster on Amazon prime last night. Still funny.
 
2013-01-18 12:51:26 PM

TomD9938: error 303: Now I'm getting all nostalgic for the good old channel 23 days. Sigh.

Yeah, I caught the first episode that aired on Thanksgiving IIRC back in the late 80s. It took me a while to even notice the puppets and Joel and once I did I remember thinking, "WTF?".

Wish I had fired up the vcr. Supposedly those first couple episodes were lost or destroyed.


Yeah, the first three from the KTMA days. Jim Mallon's got them on 3/4" tape but he's paranoid about them being eaten by the crappy machines. Presumably it'll get figured out eventually.
 
2013-01-18 12:51:47 PM
Every injustice that people fear about single payer healthcare is already committed by private insurance companies. It's hilarious.
 
2013-01-18 01:13:44 PM

President Raygun: BTW about 1 dozen Cinematic Titanic episodes are on Hulu right now. And they are very good and as a Mike partisan it pains me to say, that they are almost all superior to any of the Rifftrax I've seen.


I gotta admit, I'm a pretty strong Mike partisan myself, and I've never been all that wowed by the Rifftrax and Film Crew stuff I've seen, at least not as much as a lot of people.

It's not a nostalgic thing or anything like that, it's just not as funny as MST3K was in my opinion.

I haven't seen any of the Cinematic Titanic stuff yet, but I'll have to check it out. One of the things I've realized after some marathon MST viewing of late is that, pound for pound, Frank Conniff was the funniest person on that show. Goddamn, I'd forgotten how hilarious that guy was. I know he's in Cinematic Titanic, so I really should watch some of that.
 
2013-01-18 01:18:18 PM
You cannot "shop" for health care in America. No one will tell you what the price is until AFTER you get the service. Compare that to, say, India. Google and Indian clinic. The prices are posted right there on the web.

One of the great feats of American medicine was removing the consumer's ability to compare quality and price.
 
2013-01-18 01:19:41 PM
*Any* monopolistic government bureacracy is ultimately going to degrade and become dysfunctional. See: Soviet Union, Post Office, British NHS, etc.

The rich will do fine. They'll just fly to Switzerland for what they need. The rest of us will be lucky to get x-rays, antibiotics and asperin. Pain killers? Fuggeddaboudit. The DEA will see to it that painkillers will be strictly limited by the gub'mint healthcare system. Zip code lottery, anyone? (In Britain it's called the Post Code lottery. Only if you're in the a randomly selected post code do you get access to limited drugs)
 
2013-01-18 01:35:44 PM

kronicfeld: At long last, new fodder for the Joel v. Mike debate. Contrast to Mike Nelson's Republicanism. Hm. I still take Mike.


Mike is a republican? That can't be right. Mike's funny. He was even the head writer for the show. How can he be a republican?
 
2013-01-18 01:45:10 PM
I gotta admit, I'm a pretty strong Mike partisan myself, and I've never been all that wowed by the Rifftrax

Really? I think Rifftrax is great. I like that they do current movies instead of the same cheesy old movies that make fun of themselves.  It depends on the movie I guess. The Twilight episodes for example are gold but they shouldn't try to do good films. I tried watching them do Jaws and Raiders and there's just not much they can do with them. But the shiatty movies are terrific.
 
2013-01-18 01:50:49 PM
With a little difficulty considering my name is Michael J Nelson, I have to admit that I like Joel better as a person, but as to the show, I was used to Mike first, and enjoyed his hosting better, but now I like both about the same overall.

The main problem many philosophies is that they often fail to take into account basic human nature (my attempt at keepin on task here).
 
2013-01-18 01:54:32 PM

President Raygun: BTW about 1 dozen Cinematic Titanic episodes are on Hulu right now. And they are very good and as a Mike partisan it pains me to say, that they are almost all superior to any of the Rifftrax I've seen.


You sir may have 1 internet at my expense. I know now what I'm going to watch this evening.
 
2013-01-18 02:01:20 PM

Mugato: I gotta admit, I'm a pretty strong Mike partisan myself, and I've never been all that wowed by the Rifftrax

Really? I think Rifftrax is great. I like that they do current movies instead of the same cheesy old movies that make fun of themselves.  It depends on the movie I guess. The Twilight episodes for example are gold but they shouldn't try to do good films. I tried watching them do Jaws and Raiders and there's just not much they can do with them. But the shiatty movies are terrific.


I thought the Plan 9 from Outer Space rifftrax was great. They started right in with "Well, here we are with the Citizen Kane of bad movies" and maintained greatness throughout.
 
2013-01-18 02:15:51 PM
The fact that there's even an insurance company that would pay the king's ransom that is charged by big pharma for many of these concoctions is the actual underlying cause of the high prices themselves.

No insurance for anyone. Zero, zilch. Everyone pays cash.

Drug prices will drop through the floor.
 
2013-01-18 02:25:43 PM
"Capitalism works really great for a lot of things but not for healthcare because when you have cancer you can't really bargain shop"

Except for the part where that sentence is 100% false. About the only time you can't comparison shop for healthcare is when you're having a heart attack, stroke, or you've been in an accident and need an ambulance right now. The other 99.9% of the time, you really can shop around for your healthcare.
 
2013-01-18 02:26:59 PM

mark12A: *Any* monopolistic government bureacracy is ultimately going to degrade and become dysfunctional. See: Soviet Union, Post Office, British NHS, etc.

The rich will do fine. They'll just fly to Switzerland for what they need. The rest of us will be lucky to get x-rays, antibiotics and asperin. Pain killers? Fuggeddaboudit. The DEA will see to it that painkillers will be strictly limited by the gub'mint healthcare system. Zip code lottery, anyone? (In Britain it's called the Post Code lottery. Only if you're in the a randomly selected post code do you get access to limited drugs)


So, the military should become privatized as well, then?
 
2013-01-18 02:47:54 PM

President Raygun: BTW about 1 dozen Cinematic Titanic episodes are on Hulu right now. And they are very good and as a Mike partisan it pains me to say, that they are almost all superior to any of the Rifftrax I've seen.


Well I know what I'm doing tonight. Thanks for that.
 
2013-01-18 02:47:56 PM

mark12A: *Any* monopolistic government bureacracy is ultimately going to degrade and become dysfunctional. See: Soviet Union, Post Office, British NHS, etc.

The rich will do fine. They'll just fly to Switzerland for what they need. The rest of us will be lucky to get x-rays, antibiotics and asperin. Pain killers? Fuggeddaboudit. The DEA will see to it that painkillers will be strictly limited by the gub'mint healthcare system. Zip code lottery, anyone? (In Britain it's called the Post Code lottery. Only if you're in the a randomly selected post code do you get access to limited drugs)


You might want to research the healthcare system Switzerland has. I don't think it works quite as... capitalistically as you think it does.
 
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