If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(El Pais)   Basque runner proves winning isn't everything when he refuses to take advantage of rival's error, setting example of integrity for athletes around the world. Lance Armstrong spotted furiously taking notes   (elpais.com) divider line 41
    More: Spiffy, athlete of the year, runners, integrity, gold medals, honesty, mistakes, Martin Prado  
•       •       •

2683 clicks; posted to Sports » on 18 Jan 2013 at 12:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-01-18 11:04:37 AM
What a Dope.
 
2013-01-18 11:06:44 AM
I love that 1/4 of TFA was the gracious runner's coach badmouthing his decision.

"The gesture has made him a better person but not a better athlete. He has wasted an occasion. Winning always makes you more of an athlete. You have to go out to win."

...Thanks, coach.
 
2013-01-18 11:23:54 AM
Fiz says his pupil's action does him credit in human if not athletic terms. "The gesture has made him a better person but not a better athlete. He has wasted an occasion. Winning always makes you more of an athlete. You have to go out to win."

www.freeforpsp.com
 
2013-01-18 12:08:30 PM
Yeah coach, winning doesn't make you a better athlete if you need the person ahead of you to misunderstand the rules or break his leg or something. It just makes you a lucky one.
 
2013-01-18 12:09:52 PM
it isn't like the guy accidentally dropped a hundred dollar bill and the nice man returned it. he stopped short of the finish line. that is a serious mental error that deserves to be punished. like that guy who stopped before getting into the end zone in that one football game (you know the one). did the defense gently prod him into going the extra yards? no
 
2013-01-18 12:14:50 PM
Holy shiat that coach is a dick.
 
2013-01-18 12:15:08 PM
Lance Armstrong is a world class doper, but he's not a guy to take advantage of problems his rivals encounter. He waited for Ullrich in 2001.
 
2013-01-18 12:18:27 PM

divgradcurl: it isn't like the guy accidentally dropped a hundred dollar bill and the nice man returned it. he stopped short of the finish line. that is a serious mental error that deserves to be punished. like that guy who stopped before getting into the end zone in that one football game (you know the one). did the defense gently prod him into going the extra yards? no


It's akin to the guy stopping before the endzone, when his team was up 35-7 with 2 mins to go in the fourth. The other guy was beaten, and knew it, and wasn't going to cheapen the event with a dishonest win. Some athletes have integrity, deal with it.
 
2013-01-18 12:19:58 PM
This may not be the best story to attack Armstrong with...

In the 2001 TdF, Armstrong pulled up and waited for Jan Ullrich after Ullrich ran off the road.
 
2013-01-18 12:23:58 PM
armstrong taking dope........not notes
 
2013-01-18 12:24:01 PM

This Looks Fun: Holy shiat that coach is a dick.


Yep.
 
2013-01-18 12:26:40 PM

divgradcurl: did the defense gently prod him into going the extra yards? no


A team sport is a whole different animal, and on an individual basis there are probably several individual NFL defenders who, if they considered themselves beaten, wouldn't accept a win in that fashion. But when there are 49 other guys who relied on you (and 49 other guys who could've won the game for your goal-line stopper above) it isn't really a good comparison. There wasn't going to be a second/third/tenth race right after this one ended worth the same amount of points to bear in mind, either, like there would be in a football game.

Basically it's a question of whether you value wins at any cost vs. wins you can still sleep with yourself at night. It sounds like you are of the former camp, but I think I would do the same in his situation. It would feel slimy on the victory podium knowing that the other person had beaten me and just got confused. There could've been a language barrier (the article mentions "he used gestures") or something. It might not have been a mental error the way you characterize it. He didn't stop short to showboat or something, like happens with a lot of NFL plays where dudes stop short.
 
2013-01-18 12:31:18 PM

INeedAName: It's akin to the guy stopping before the endzone, when his team was up 35-7 with 2 mins to go in the fourth. The other guy was beaten, and knew it, and wasn't going to cheapen the event with a dishonest win. Some athletes have integrity, deal with it.


I don't think you can make the same comparison with a team sport. It works better in golf, tennis, and other individual sports. If a football player gave up a win for honor/integrity, he'd be benched. Especially in a short season when each game has playoff implications.
 
2013-01-18 12:33:18 PM

PowerSlacker: Lance Armstrong is a world class doper, but he's not a guy to take advantage of problems his rivals encounter. He waited for Ullrich in 2001.


bulldg4life: This may not be the best story to attack Armstrong with...

In the 2001 TdF, Armstrong pulled up and waited for Jan Ullrich after Ullrich ran off the road.


What they said. Armstrong's a world class prick, but he's still classier than that douche Contador.
 
2013-01-18 12:42:52 PM

This Looks Fun: INeedAName: It's akin to the guy stopping before the endzone, when his team was up 35-7 with 2 mins to go in the fourth. The other guy was beaten, and knew it, and wasn't going to cheapen the event with a dishonest win. Some athletes have integrity, deal with it.

I don't think you can make the same comparison with a team sport. It works better in golf, tennis, and other individual sports. If a football player gave up a win for honor/integrity, he'd be benched. Especially in a short season when each game has playoff implications.


the team sport player has a lot more guidance as to whether the ball is in play and what's going on. i've seen it in tennis, where one player wins a point because the other guy's shot was called out, but then he says, nope, that was in. your point.

i did see it recently in a football game. there was a facemask penalty but the victim went to the ref and said it was unintentional or not a big deal and the ref reduced the penalty. (or something, i don't really remember the details, but i think it was the difference between a first down or a third down. i thought it was either in the playoffs or the last weekend of the regular season... although, it could have been a college game. like i said, not really paying attention, all my teams didn't have great seasons, so I've just been watching football in the background since december)
 
2013-01-18 12:42:55 PM

This Looks Fun: INeedAName: It's akin to the guy stopping before the endzone, when his team was up 35-7 with 2 mins to go in the fourth. The other guy was beaten, and knew it, and wasn't going to cheapen the event with a dishonest win. Some athletes have integrity, deal with it.

I don't think you can make the same comparison with a team sport. It works better in golf, tennis, and other individual sports. If a football player gave up a win for honor/integrity, he'd be benched. Especially in a short season when each game has playoff implications.


And in the end, all sports and mental and physical. If you're too stupid/disoriented/whatever to realize that you haven't crossed the finish line, and someone crosses before you as a result, you didn't deserve to win.

It's a classy gesture on the guy's part, but there wouldn't have been anything wrong with him blowing past the dumbass.
 
2013-01-18 12:44:17 PM
Robbie Fowler once asked a referee to not give him a penalty in a game when he was fouled. Ref wouldn't change his mind, so to the world it looked like he hit the worst penalty in the world in protest. It wasn't true (well the bit about asking the ref to change the decision was), he just took an awful penalty and Jason McAteer scored on the rebound.

Then there was Paolo Di Canio, aka Screaming Mad Paolo Di Canio, who once jumped up and caught a cross with his hands with an open goal because the opposition goalie was lying in a crumpled heap injured at the edge of the box. It's rare, but it sometimes happens.
 
2013-01-18 12:58:45 PM
It's an incredibly noble gesture, but I can't decide whether or not it was appropriate. On one hand, it's nice to see an outstanding example of class and generosity! On the other hand, human error is just that, and we need to live with the results of our mistakes.

The coach came off as an ass, but he does have a point. It's not like the guy would in any way have been cheating if he'd run on ahead.

Suppose Mutai had stumbled and fallen. Would the second-place runner have waited for him to get up? I doubt it.

Also, how did the mistake happen in the first place?

Last year I was running a half marathon and I noticed a girl miss the last timing strip on the course. I told her to go back and hit it (she'd only have lost about 10 seconds). Neither of us were anywhere near the competitive level although I like to think that even if we'd been contenders I'd have mentioned it. Although I think that if I were running that fast I'd have been in a different mental place entirely and might not have noticed.
 
2013-01-18 01:05:30 PM
Cyclists stop and wait for downed riders if they're near the lead.

Runners? Not so much.
 
2013-01-18 01:11:45 PM

rcantley: This Looks Fun: INeedAName: It's akin to the guy stopping before the endzone, when his team was up 35-7 with 2 mins to go in the fourth. The other guy was beaten, and knew it, and wasn't going to cheapen the event with a dishonest win. Some athletes have integrity, deal with it.

I don't think you can make the same comparison with a team sport. It works better in golf, tennis, and other individual sports. If a football player gave up a win for honor/integrity, he'd be benched. Especially in a short season when each game has playoff implications.

And in the end, all sports and mental and physical. If you're too stupid/disoriented/whatever to realize that you haven't crossed the finish line, and someone crosses before you as a result, you didn't deserve to win.

It's a classy gesture on the guy's part, but there wouldn't have been anything wrong with him blowing past the dumbass.


I agree with that. I like that he didn't have this time at the keyboard to reflect on his legacy, but just did what felt right. That's probably the best part of it is that it was pure instinct.
 
2013-01-18 01:12:54 PM
Congrats on the guy for being a good person.

/always better than being a good athlete, there, coach
 
2013-01-18 01:36:36 PM

sloughtown4ever: Robbie Fowler once asked a referee to not give him a penalty in a game when he was fouled. Ref wouldn't change his mind, so to the world it looked like he hit the worst penalty in the world in protest. It wasn't true (well the bit about asking the ref to change the decision was), he just took an awful penalty and Jason McAteer scored on the rebound.


The worst penalty in the world would be twenty feet over the crossbar. There would be no rebound.

Nogale: It's an incredibly noble gesture, but I can't decide whether or not it was appropriate. On one hand, it's nice to see an outstanding example of class and generosity! On the other hand, human error is just that, and we need to live with the results of our mistakes.

The coach came off as an ass, but he does have a point. It's not like the guy would in any way have been cheating if he'd run on ahead.

Suppose Mutai had stumbled and fallen. Would the second-place runner have waited for him to get up? I doubt it.

Also, how did the mistake happen in the first place?

Last year I was running a half marathon and I noticed a girl miss the last timing strip on the course. I told her to go back and hit it (she'd only have lost about 10 seconds). Neither of us were anywhere near the competitive level although I like to think that even if we'd been contenders I'd have mentioned it. Although I think that if I were running that fast I'd have been in a different mental place entirely and might not have noticed.


Seriously. I would probably yell "Hey, you're not done yet. Keep going!" If he still stays where he is, then you gotta go past him and win the race he didn't finish.
 
2013-01-18 01:49:54 PM
Your running career lasts 10-15 years. Your personal character lasts your whole lifetime.

Win a race or win at life?

Clearly we know what choice that dickhead coach made.
 
2013-01-18 01:52:17 PM
Link
Still one of my favorite fair play moments. Warning, football (soccer) involved.
Further warning, Di Canio is a fascist meme may be invoked.
 
2013-01-18 01:57:29 PM

RminusQ: The worst penalty in the world would be twenty feet over the crossbar. There would be no rebound.


Do you actually have to kick it at the goal? You could just run up and step on it, right?
 
2013-01-18 02:05:20 PM

bulldg4life: This may not be the best story to attack Armstrong with...

In the 2001 TdF, Armstrong pulled up and waited for Jan Ullrich after Ullrich ran off the road.


Came here to mention this. Armstrong was competing at a time when it has been pretty much proven that everyone was doping. His wins are as good as the next guy's. He also had ideas about the sport which included not taking advantage of a crash or other random mishap. I always enjoyed following Armstrong and always thought he was doping at least as much as the others.
 
2013-01-18 02:20:22 PM

sloughtown4ever: Robbie Fowler once asked a referee to not give him a penalty in a game when he was fouled. Ref wouldn't change his mind, so to the world it looked like he hit the worst penalty in the world in protest. It wasn't true (well the bit about asking the ref to change the decision was), he just took an awful penalty and Jason McAteer scored on the rebound.

Then there was Paolo Di Canio, aka Screaming Mad Paolo Di Canio, who once jumped up and caught a cross with his hands with an open goal because the opposition goalie was lying in a crumpled heap injured at the edge of the box. It's rare, but it sometimes happens.


Klose did it last year with Lazio. Took back a goal when he told the ref he handballed it in.
 
2013-01-18 02:50:35 PM

PowerSlacker: Lance Armstrong is a world class doper, but he's not a guy to take advantage of problems his rivals encounter. He waited for Ullrich in 2001.


Came to say this...
 
2013-01-18 03:01:36 PM

RminusQ:

Seriously. I would probably yell "Hey, you're not done yet. Keep going!" If he still stays where he is, then you gotta go past him and win the race he didn't finish.


That's a little difficult when your opponent has no idea what you're saying.

Fernández Anaya quickly caught up with him, but instead of exploiting Mutai's mistake to speed past and claim an unlikely victory, he stayed behind and, using gestures, guided the Kenyan to the line and let him cross first.


/Not a lot of Kenyans speak Euskara
 
2013-01-18 03:04:01 PM

Nogale: Also, how did the mistake happen in the first place?



Judging from the pic you can see in the background the start of some artificial surface and those chutes are typically also used at the end of a race. I'm guessing when he hit that carpet he thought it was the finish line/post race chute area.
 
2013-01-18 03:04:19 PM
www.puzzlepuzzles.com

*approves*
 
2013-01-18 03:18:45 PM

T-Boy: bulldg4life: This may not be the best story to attack Armstrong with...

In the 2001 TdF, Armstrong pulled up and waited for Jan Ullrich after Ullrich ran off the road.

Came here to mention this. Armstrong was competing at a time when it has been pretty much proven that everyone was doping. His wins are as good as the next guy's. He also had ideas about the sport which included not taking advantage of a crash or other random mishap. I always enjoyed following Armstrong and always thought he was doping at least as much as the others.


I just watched the Armstrong clip on YouTube. The announcer makes the comment as soon as Ullrich goes down that Armstrong will wait so that he doesn't have to do the next two mountains alone. The announcer says that Armstrong needs Ullrich and the other guy. Did Arstrong wait because he's a swell guy, or to help himself?

/I'm not a follower of bicycling, so I'm really asking.
 
2013-01-18 03:32:59 PM

skrame: T-Boy: bulldg4life: This may not be the best story to attack Armstrong with...

In the 2001 TdF, Armstrong pulled up and waited for Jan Ullrich after Ullrich ran off the road.

Came here to mention this. Armstrong was competing at a time when it has been pretty much proven that everyone was doping. His wins are as good as the next guy's. He also had ideas about the sport which included not taking advantage of a crash or other random mishap. I always enjoyed following Armstrong and always thought he was doping at least as much as the others.

I just watched the Armstrong clip on YouTube. The announcer makes the comment as soon as Ullrich goes down that Armstrong will wait so that he doesn't have to do the next two mountains alone. The announcer says that Armstrong needs Ullrich and the other guy. Did Arstrong wait because he's a swell guy, or to help himself?

/I'm not a follower of bicycling, so I'm really asking.


I was about to post that it was strategy and not completely sportsmanship. Those two would have blown past him if he tried climbing alone.
 
2013-01-18 04:20:19 PM
It's time for someone to get another coach.
 
2013-01-18 04:28:18 PM
carnifex2005: skrame: T-Boy: bulldg4life: This may not be the best story to attack Armstrong with...

In the 2001 TdF, Armstrong pulled up and waited for Jan Ullrich after Ullrich ran off the road.

Came here to mention this. Armstrong was competing at a time when it has been pretty much proven that everyone was doping. His wins are as good as the next guy's. He also had ideas about the sport which included not taking advantage of a crash or other random mishap. I always enjoyed following Armstrong and always thought he was doping at least as much as the others.

I just watched the Armstrong clip on YouTube. The announcer makes the comment as soon as Ullrich goes down that Armstrong will wait so that he doesn't have to do the next two mountains alone. The announcer says that Armstrong needs Ullrich and the other guy. Did Arstrong wait because he's a swell guy, or to help himself?


/I'm not a follower of bicycling, so I'm really asking.

I was about to post that it was strategy and not completely sportsmanship. Those two would have blown past him if he tried climbing alone.


It blows my mind that these guys can climb at a quick enough pace for wind resistance to still play a significant role.
 
2013-01-18 05:13:27 PM
a gesture of honesty goes down well
 
2013-01-18 08:52:23 PM

Loomy: I was about to post that it was strategy and not completely sportsmanship. Those two would have blown past him if he tried climbing alone.


Given the rest of Armstrong's body of work, I think we can probably assume that zero percent of it was sportsmanship-based on Armstrong's part.
 
2013-01-18 09:09:42 PM

Glenford: PowerSlacker: Lance Armstrong is a world class doper, but he's not a guy to take advantage of problems his rivals encounter. He waited for Ullrich in 2001.

bulldg4life: This may not be the best story to attack Armstrong with...

In the 2001 TdF, Armstrong pulled up and waited for Jan Ullrich after Ullrich ran off the road.

What they said. Armstrong's a world class prick, but he's still classier than that douche Contador.


Subby's trying to make points using Lance's name but just showed how little they know about bicycle racing

Ullrich waited for Lance too.

/glad to see people haven't forgotten about Alberto/Andy.
 
2013-01-19 12:05:51 AM
I have a very dark heart, and this made me smile

/FARK LANCE
 
2013-01-19 08:51:46 AM

INeedAName: divgradcurl: it isn't like the guy accidentally dropped a hundred dollar bill and the nice man returned it. he stopped short of the finish line. that is a serious mental error that deserves to be punished. like that guy who stopped before getting into the end zone in that one football game (you know the one). did the defense gently prod him into going the extra yards? no

It's akin to the guy stopping before the endzone, when his team was up 35-7 with 2 mins to go in the fourth. The other guy was beaten, and knew it, and wasn't going to cheapen the event with a dishonest win. Some athletes have integrity, deal with it.


It's more like taking a knee after an interception--on a pass that shouldn't have been thrown--as time expires instead of running it back for a score and winning the game. This was clearly winnable, he just chose not to win.
 
2013-01-19 04:46:04 PM
I am going with it was a silly thing to do. For athletic competitions, mental ability is just as important as physical ability (well, the balance varies between competitions, but both are always important). The Kenyan runner failed in the mental side of the competition and because of that he deserved to lose.

Unless there was some reason for him to think the race was over, such as a poorly marked track (which indicated that he had crossed the finish line, or some sort of outside interference. In which case stopping for him was a great thing to do and I heartily applaud the Spanish runner.
 
Displayed 41 of 41 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report