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(BBC)   France boosts its troop strength in Mali and launches its first major ground operation against Al-Qaeda linked rebels, marking a post-WWII milestone for French forces of a full week of combat in which they haven't surrendered even once   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 85
    More: Interesting, al-Qaeda, WWII, Malian, Bamako, Tuaregs, Security Council resolutions, Burkina Faso, U.N. Security Council  
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2000 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jan 2013 at 9:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-18 11:31:54 AM

Hollie Maea: Mali and Burkina Faso went to war once, back in the 1980s. The war lasted for five or six days until both sides ran out of resources, so they just stopped.


IIRC, There was a similar situation in the 90s with Armenia and Azerbaijian, which were fighting over the border area of Nagorno-Karabakh. Armenia would rent some artillery, but some shells, and pound the Azeri positions until they ran out of money and had to give the guns back. Azerbaijian would then rent the same artillery pieces and fire back until their money ran out. And so forth.
 
2013-01-18 11:37:03 AM

Chummer45: Remember when France conquered nearly all of Europe? Remember when France lost 1.4 million soldiers fighting in WWI? Remember when France facilitated our revolution?

Of course not. The French refused to buy into the bullshiat that the Bush administration was spreading around when it was trying to convince everyone to go to war in Iraq. Therefore, France (which, we cannot now dispute, was completely right about the whole thing) sucks..


Though I agree with your assessment that the French aren't the weak knee'd cowards that the American
right would have you believe, there is an additional dimension to France's unwillingness to join in on the
Second Gulf War:  Jacques Chirac had a long history of being cozy with Saddam Hussein and arranging
all sorts of business deals between French companies and his government.  Long before GWB started
rattling the sabres the French press nicknamed him Monsieiur  Iraq, his tongue was that far down SH's
backside.
 
2013-01-18 11:38:46 AM
Hey Akmed! Why do these infidels call your mother a hamster? And now that they mention it, your farther did smell of elderberries!
 
2013-01-18 11:43:12 AM

meanmutton: gopher321: Well, let's hope France is more successful in Mali then other western nations have been in Afghanistan.

/I will admit I had to look Mali up on a map

You do know we won that war, right? Destroyed the existing government, scattered their military, instilled a government of our choosing and all that all while losing what, historically, is a tiny number of service members?


i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-18 12:01:02 PM

Magorn: fireclown: Nurglitch: Only in America would the French have a reputation for being cowardly anti-war types...

The irony is not lost upon me. Without the french navy we would still be English. Their rep comes from their capitulation to the Germans in WWII. It was sadly the only real choice they could make, as they found themselves up against some real game-changing shiat. We in the US like to talk a big game about surrendering to ze germans, but talk is cheap over here where we don't share a 500 mile border with them.

A lot of the French Rep also comes from their performance in WWI as well.   Their incredible, bloodthirsty incompetence during that war, as elitist , out-of-touch generals sent millions of soldiers into a meat grinder as they pursued 19th century military strategies in a 20th  century war  started the stereotype, and WWII just sealed it.  Especially the perfomance of the Vichy France troops in combat (granted they were pretty unmotivated to fight the allies) .  Ironically if you look back to WWII and immediately thereafter,  the "Cheese-eating surrender monkey" label was stuck a lot more firmly to the Italians than the French.   I think  the souring of US-French realtions in the 50's and 60's and DeGaulle's basic obnoxiousness did a lot to help transfer that meme to his nation instead, though thier crushing defeat at Dien Bien Phu didn't help either


The clusterfark that was French military leadership during the Franco-Prussian war didn't help either.
 
2013-01-18 12:28:46 PM

fireclown: Nurglitch: Only in America would the French have a reputation for being cowardly anti-war types...

The irony is not lost upon me. Without the french navy we would still be English. Their rep comes from their capitulation to the Germans in WWII. It was sadly the only real choice they could make, as they found themselves up against some real game-changing shiat. We in the US like to talk a big game about surrendering to ze germans, but talk is cheap over here where we don't share a 500 mile border with them.


Then there's also the small fact that France didn´t surrender to Germany as such.

France fought the war together with England, and they lost, both of them. England managed to evacuate most of their troops at the "miracle of Dunkeque", but left all their gear behind. That's what happened.
 
2013-01-18 12:29:44 PM
France earned their reputation for the disastrous performance of successive French governments and military commands from the fall of the Second Empire at Sedan to the destruction of the Third Republic in May of 1940. Truly stunning displays of incompetence and cowardice, mostly of the political variety
 
2013-01-18 12:49:34 PM

TheGreatGazoo: The last time French did something like this the US ended up stuck in Vietnam for 20 years.


Or supporting Haiti for the next 200 years.
 
2013-01-18 01:05:21 PM
We should deploy some AC130 gun ships to support the fight. Those things can bring down wicked firepower.
 
2013-01-18 01:07:44 PM
Also, wouldn't this be the French Foreign Legion, who have a bit of a reputation for efficient soulless death delivery.
 
2013-01-18 01:09:04 PM
Ligne Maginot was pretty farking embarassing...
/is french

Still, unsure how a successful War on terror is supposed to look like though.
 
2013-01-18 01:16:15 PM

Nurglitch: fireclown: Don't fool yourself skippy. The french aren't INCAPABLE of military savagery and competence, they just made a decision not to for the last 50 years or so. Especially in northern Africa. I'm betting that there are a lot of folks who will be concerned to see the french flag returning to Algeria.

Only in America would the French have a reputation for being cowardly anti-war types...


The fact that the French government actually told Bush and Cheney to go piss up a rope wrt the Iraq war, means they have far more balls than the Brits with that wimp Tony Blair who fell over himself appease the US.
 
2013-01-18 01:29:43 PM

ObscureNameHere: So its Napolean vs. Mansa Munsa...hmmm.... tricky. Napolean could culture flip the cities but Mansa has the money (assuming he has the Universal Sufferage civic active).


I LOL'd at this. Was always curious why they added the Malinesisians....
 
2013-01-18 01:31:36 PM

ObscureNameHere: So its Napolean vs. Mansa Munsa...hmmm.... tricky. Napolean could culture flip the cities but Mansa has the money (assuming he has the Universal Sufferage civic active).


Mansa Musa always has the money. He techs like a monster.
 
2013-01-18 01:46:16 PM

Nurglitch: Only in America would the French have a reputation for being cowardly anti-war types..


Being a legitimate world power and having your country invaded and occupied either partially or completely three times in the span of 75 years will tend to earn one a reputation.

Past history notwithstanding, French forces are extremely competent and their special forces are as good as any in the world. I really would be curious to know how their Mali rescue operation went so sideways....
 
2013-01-18 02:20:57 PM

spawn73: Then there's also the small fact that France didn´t surrender to Germany as such.

France fought the war together with England, and they lost, both of them. England managed to evacuate most of their troops at the "miracle of Dunkeque", but left all their gear behind. That's what happened.


You are absolutely correct. However since the whole thing ended up with German boots on French soil, what was a admission of defeat is often thought of as a surrender. My point is that it's easy to call them names from a safe distance.
 
2013-01-18 02:46:58 PM

ObscureNameHere: So its Napolean vs. Mansa Munsa...hmmm.... tricky. Napolean could culture flip the cities but Mansa has the money (assuming he has the Universal Sufferage civic active).


Mansa Munsa is a lot better than his Civ V successor Askia. River Warlord bonus doesn't live up to its name. Just some extra gold for storming barbarians?
 
2013-01-18 02:48:32 PM
All I gotta say is, if HItler had invaded the U.S. in 1940, he'd have had a lot less trouble with our army of the time than with the French.

/1943, not so much.
 
2013-01-18 03:03:06 PM

JustGetItRight: I really would be curious to know how their Mali rescue operation went so sideways....


It could be because it was in Somalia...
 
2013-01-18 03:34:22 PM

mbillips: All I gotta say is, if HItler had invaded the U.S. in 1940, he'd have had a lot less trouble with our army of the time than with the French.

/1943, not so much.


If the US had faced a land threat like Germany, I would hope our forces wouldn't have been at the level they were in 1940. There was no threat of invasion over land, our threat was at sea and we were quite well prepared.

In 1940, the US Navy's combat forces consisted of 6 fleet carriers, 15 battleships, 34 cruisers, roughly 125 destroyers, and close to 90 submarines. It was inferior in both numbers and quality to only the Royal Navy and the difference there was quite narrow.
 
2013-01-18 03:36:21 PM

Practical_Draconian: ObscureNameHere: So its Napolean vs. Mansa Munsa...hmmm.... tricky. Napolean could culture flip the cities but Mansa has the money (assuming he has the Universal Sufferage civic active).

Mansa Munsa is a lot better than his Civ V successor Askia. River Warlord bonus doesn't live up to its name. Just some extra gold for storming barbarians?


I've been a fan of Civ's since before Civ (Sid Meir's first game was 'Empire: Wargame of the Century' and it was awesome). The finest expression of the Civilization game franchise is Civ:IV - Beyond the Sword. I recently installed it on my new PC.

A friend of mine is /was as big a Civ fan as me. He bought Civ V when it came out and invited me over for a look. It looked nice, but it seemed 'lacking' to me at the time. His later experiences confirmed my initial impression. When I got the new PC I asked him "Should I get Civ V?". He gave me an emphatic 'No.'

Oh well, maybe they will get it back to right with Civ VI?
 
2013-01-18 04:21:48 PM
next in the Bazar,

Super blue light special, French weapons Never fired in combat only dropped once.
 
2013-01-18 05:15:55 PM

ObscureNameHere: Practical_Draconian: ObscureNameHere: So its Napolean vs. Mansa Munsa...hmmm.... tricky. Napolean could culture flip the cities but Mansa has the money (assuming he has the Universal Sufferage civic active).

Mansa Munsa is a lot better than his Civ V successor Askia. River Warlord bonus doesn't live up to its name. Just some extra gold for storming barbarians?

I've been a fan of Civ's since before Civ (Sid Meir's first game was 'Empire: Wargame of the Century' and it was awesome). The finest expression of the Civilization game franchise is Civ:IV - Beyond the Sword. I recently installed it on my new PC.

A friend of mine is /was as big a Civ fan as me. He bought Civ V when it came out and invited me over for a look. It looked nice, but it seemed 'lacking' to me at the time. His later experiences confirmed my initial impression. When I got the new PC I asked him "Should I get Civ V?". He gave me an emphatic 'No.'

Oh well, maybe they will get it back to right with Civ VI?


It got better, the expansion plus a couple patches has changed it into something playable (and Steam sales mean you can get it for $20 or less)
 
2013-01-18 05:18:22 PM

DoctorOfLove: Also, wouldn't this be the French Foreign Legion, who have a bit of a reputation for efficient soulless death delivery.


Came here to say something like this. I took a Revolutionary-era French history class in college (European history minor) and it was discussed in depth one day.

The lesson I learned was that the motherfarkers were INTENSE when it came to fighting in Africa. My Google-fu is hindered, but pictures and graphic descriptions were provided.

/curse you Mobile Google
 
2013-01-18 05:28:54 PM
Faut jamais phoquer avec les Français.
 
2013-01-18 05:40:09 PM

ObscureNameHere: Practical_Draconian: ObscureNameHere: So its Napolean vs. Mansa Munsa...hmmm.... tricky. Napolean could culture flip the cities but Mansa has the money (assuming he has the Universal Sufferage civic active).

Mansa Munsa is a lot better than his Civ V successor Askia. River Warlord bonus doesn't live up to its name. Just some extra gold for storming barbarians?

I've been a fan of Civ's since before Civ (Sid Meir's first game was 'Empire: Wargame of the Century' and it was awesome). The finest expression of the Civilization game franchise is Civ:IV - Beyond the Sword. I recently installed it on my new PC.

A friend of mine is /was as big a Civ fan as me. He bought Civ V when it came out and invited me over for a look. It looked nice, but it seemed 'lacking' to me at the time. His later experiences confirmed my initial impression. When I got the new PC I asked him "Should I get Civ V?". He gave me an emphatic 'No.'

Oh well, maybe they will get it back to right with Civ VI?


Vanilla Civ V sucks. Gods and Kings makes it ... almost OK but not worth investing more than $10 on a Steam sale, if that. Civ Lite I guess. I got on board with Civ IV, though I played Alpha Centauri beforehand.

Rise of Nations needs a sequel, f--k you Schilling for farking that up.
 
2013-01-18 05:52:03 PM
Getting a kick because I am currently reading Shirer's Collapse of the Third Republic. It is a very interesting companion peice to Rise and fall of the Third Reich. Seems to me France had two chances to stop Hitler- the first when he reoccupied the rhineland and the second when he was threatening Czechoslovakia. Both times France's army and strategic position were far stronger than Germany's. The first time would not have even been difficult, Hitler was ready to trunk tail and run if France had opposed him. The second would have meant war, but likely on a far smaller scale. France would have quickly won too, as Germany was not yet ready plus the Czechs would have helped.

Hindsight is of course twenty twenty, but the blindness of French military leadership in those years is staggering.
 
2013-01-18 05:57:37 PM

mbillips: All I gotta say is, if HItler had invaded the U.S. in 1940, he'd have had a lot less trouble with our army of the time than with the French.

/1943, not so much.


Hitler would have had the same problems with the US that he had with the USSR -- it's just too goddamn big to blitzkrieg, and the Nazis were constantly battling logistical issues even in the good days.
 
2013-01-18 06:24:56 PM

This text is now purple: mbillips: All I gotta say is, if HItler had invaded the U.S. in 1940, he'd have had a lot less trouble with our army of the time than with the French.

/1943, not so much.

Hitler would have had the same problems with the US that he had with the USSR -- it's just too goddamn big to blitzkrieg, and the Nazis were constantly battling logistical issues even in the good days.


First of all the problems of course was Adolf couldn't raise the boats to cross the channel and that's only 20 miles! and when I say boats I mean river barges so not really boats at all. A large swell would have sunk them with no danger to the RN at all.

I like the french their not afraid to say 'non'.
I wish to god Blair told Bush to go f*ck a pig or summat instead of following like a love struck loon into that farce of a war in Iraq.
 
2013-01-18 08:16:07 PM

Magorn: Ironically if you look back to WWII and immediately thereafter, the "Cheese-eating surrender monkey" label was stuck a lot more firmly to the Italians than the French.


No fair. Italians don't eat that much cheese.
 
2013-01-18 10:28:03 PM
When Cornwallis surrendered to George Washington at Georgetown there were more farking Frenchmen on the field than goddamned Americans and the French navy blockade prevented both reinforcement and escape for Cornwallis.

The American Revolution was a French proxy war against the English and you farkers are all to stupid to see it.
 
2013-01-18 10:54:47 PM

TheWhoppah: When Cornwallis surrendered to George Washington at Georgetown there were more farking Frenchmen on the field than goddamned Americans and the French navy blockade prevented both reinforcement and escape for Cornwallis.

The American Revolution was a French proxy war against the English and you farkers are all to stupid to see it.


Hey!
 
2013-01-19 12:03:04 AM

TheWhoppah: When Cornwallis surrendered to George Washington at Georgetown there were more farking Frenchmen on the field than goddamned Americans and the French navy blockade prevented both reinforcement and escape for Cornwallis.

The American Revolution was a French proxy war against the English and you farkers are all to stupid to see it.


All of us?
 
2013-01-19 06:43:23 AM

UnholyMudcrab: ObscureNameHere: So its Napolean vs. Mansa Munsa...hmmm.... tricky. Napolean could culture flip the cities but Mansa has the money (assuming he has the Universal Sufferage civic active).

Mansa Musa always has the money. He techs like a monster.


Nah, Mansa Musa doesn't tech fast himself. He just trades techs like a drug addicted gigolo looking for their next fix. Never give Mansa Musa a tech you don't want every other Civ to have the next turn. And he capitulates at the drop of a hat.

Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia is generally accepted as being the hardest AI opponent at the higher skill levels of Civ 4.
 
2013-01-19 09:06:46 AM
Why not send in the Americans, who despite gross disparities in combat power with their opponents will fight for at least 10 years before their contractors declare $uce$$?
 
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