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(Al Jazeera) NewsFlash 35 hostages killed in botched operation in Algeria   (aljazeera.com) divider line 287
    More: NewsFlash, Algeria, gasfields, Algerian, hostages, French citizens, Al Jazeera, kidnappers  
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32371 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jan 2013 at 11:06 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-01-17 11:39:27 AM  
factoryconnection: "As an anti-terror op, this was massively successful"

As a "best worst option", that may be.
But it seems that a more precise raid on said convoy could have trivially achieved all those same objectives -- even in a worst case scenario -- with a solid chance of actually saving lives.
 
2013-01-17 11:39:34 AM  
This was obvious the result of some video posted on the internet.
 
2013-01-17 11:39:35 AM  

lumiere: Allen. The end.: I understand the need for corporations to drain natural resources from central Africa, but DAMN! I mean, it's sub-Saharan Africa! Is this really unexpected?

Algeria is not sub-Saharan but they share a huge, and very hard to control border with the terrorist morons in North Mali.

/I'm probably the only Algerian-American on Fark, so if you have questions, I'm here


Ah, thanks! My map is at school. I thought Mali was central-west? WIth no coastline? I may be wrong...
 
2013-01-17 11:40:42 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: Gun control. Now.


So who is going to their state capitol on Saturday?
2A Rally
 
2013-01-17 11:40:55 AM  
Quick, click mouse to respawn!
 
2013-01-17 11:41:06 AM  

gunsmack: 'killed' ?


Not been confirmed yet. It looks weird, but they're being all journalistic-integrity-like and such.


StrikitRich: 35 hostages and only 15 terrorists killed? Was Jimmy Carter in command of Spetznz troops?


Read the rest of the article. Several people escaped.

There's also a distinction between foreign hostages versus local Algerian hostages, being made in some places but not others.

I'd expect Faux News to report this as "<X number> of American hostages killed, plus some anonymous brown people".
 
2013-01-17 11:41:09 AM  
FTA: "Thirty-four hostages and 15 kidnappers have been killed in southern Algeria, according to the group holding the hostages."

Because I'm sure their reporting is reliable. Or as Fox News calls it, "Fair and Balanced".
 
2013-01-17 11:41:21 AM  

Lane83: Smeggy Smurf: Nuke Mecca and Medina as payback. That'll get their attention.

Nothing pisses off West Africans as much as killing Arabs!


They're all muslims. That'll get 'em riled up.
 
2013-01-17 11:41:21 AM  

Allen. The end.: lumiere: Allen. The end.: I understand the need for corporations to drain natural resources from central Africa, but DAMN! I mean, it's sub-Saharan Africa! Is this really unexpected?

Algeria is not sub-Saharan but they share a huge, and very hard to control border with the terrorist morons in North Mali.

/I'm probably the only Algerian-American on Fark, so if you have questions, I'm here

Ah, thanks! My map is at school. I thought Mali was central-west? WIth no coastline? I may be wrong...


You are posting on the internet, and you claim to not have a map available? Seriously?
 
2013-01-17 11:41:24 AM  

Allen. The end.: lumiere: Allen. The end.: I understand the need for corporations to drain natural resources from central Africa, but DAMN! I mean, it's sub-Saharan Africa! Is this really unexpected?

Algeria is not sub-Saharan but they share a huge, and very hard to control border with the terrorist morons in North Mali.

/I'm probably the only Algerian-American on Fark, so if you have questions, I'm here

Ah, thanks! My map is at school. I thought Mali was central-west? WIth no coastline? I may be wrong...


I'd call it "The former French North Africa", but that's just because the vast majority of my time is spent dissecting the 1940s.
 
2013-01-17 11:41:26 AM  
But the oil company got their facility back, right? That's the important thing.
 
2013-01-17 11:42:07 AM  

lilbjorn: But the oil company got their facility back, right? That's the important thing.


The important thing is that our gas prices don't go up.
 
2013-01-17 11:42:20 AM  
ran out of grenades?
www.arcade-museum.com
 
2013-01-17 11:43:12 AM  

YixilTesiphon: Allen. The end.: I understand the need for corporations to drain natural resources from central Africa, but DAMN! I mean, it's sub-Saharan Africa! Is this really unexpected?

No it isn't...

Also, it turns out intervening in the Middle East still leads to blowback. Who would have thought?


Is Mali really the Middle East?

original.antiwar.com
 
2013-01-17 11:43:20 AM  
Yet another reason why investing in solar technology is stupid.
 
2013-01-17 11:43:26 AM  
Did the fabled Black Chinook come to relieve anyone of their command, or was this a yo bro we got this moment.....
 
2013-01-17 11:44:05 AM  

ringersol: But it seems that a more precise raid on said convoy could have trivially achieved all those same objectives -- even in a worst case scenario -- with a solid chance of actually saving lives.


That's a commentary on the rescue. Terrorists don't care about the death of the hostages, except as it brings them bargaining power. They care about their own personnel and achieving their stated objectives. In this case, they don't have control of a major industrial facility, they've lost almost all their bargaining chips and personnel, and they've shown that if you do f*ck with Algeria, you're just going to die with or without hostages.

There was no ending to this scenario, short of a hail of near-magic bullets to take out all the militants before they could start killing hostages, that had a good outcome for the poor saps on that convoy.
 
2013-01-17 11:44:29 AM  

FLMountainMan: lumiere: Allen. The end.: I understand the need for corporations to drain natural resources from central Africa, but DAMN! I mean, it's sub-Saharan Africa! Is this really unexpected?

Algeria is not sub-Saharan but they share a huge, and very hard to control border with the terrorist morons in North Mali.

/I'm probably the only Algerian-American on Fark, so if you have questions, I'm here

Man, I've always wanted to visit Algeria. Seriously. It's my understanding that most of these troubles are concentrated in the southern regions, and the northern areas are pretty safe, right?


Actually, the biggest Northern cities (Algiers, Oran and Constantine) have had their fair share of attacks by Islamic fundamentalists, especially during La décennie noire, the Black Decade in the 1990s.  During this time, the oilfields in the South were heavily protected by both foreign and Algerian forces to protect oil and gas interests.

The problem in the South of Algeria has now been exasperated by renegade Islamic fundamentalists who have escaped Algerian forces, and some who have crept in from Libya, the Western Sahara and now, Mali.  The main oilfields, like Hassi Messoud and Rhourde El Baguel are still very heavily protected.

Yes, Algeria is a beautiful country but sadly, they aren't used to tourists and have a very backwards infrastructure to be able to sustain the same levels of tourism neighboring Morocco and Tunisia have.  This was made worse given the fact Algeria still has large remnants of a dinosaur socialist society (too many streets there are named after Che Guevara and Fidel Castro and they still have strong ties with Eastern bloc countries).

A friend of mine sent this to me just recently about a fellow classmate, thought I'd share:

"Hi, My name is [redacted] and I am in the Distance MBA program; this is my 10th class. It has been a long journey but I am more the half way finished. I am in the U.S. Coast Guard where I am currently serving as a Law Enforcement instructor at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in [redacted but I live in Durango, Colorado.
My job has taken me all over the world, as has private travel as well. The most interesting place I have been to, three times now, is Algeria. I would probably have never have paid my own way here, but I have gone for work. The country is unique in that they are a strong partner for the U.S. in a troubled area of the world; they are also a large trading partner... oil. I particularly enjoy the effect that their alliance with Russia during the cold war still has on their government thoughts and behaviors."
 
2013-01-17 11:44:29 AM  
If only those hostages had been armed, this wouldn't've happened.
 
2013-01-17 11:44:45 AM  

make me some tea: My wife is home watching HLN, she said the ticker at the bottom of the screen said "3 Americans escape from 'Al Jazeera' captors"

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 397x316]


It's a well-known fact that anything that starts with "Al" must be either a terrorist organization or a terrorist.
Al Qaeda
Al Jazeera
Al Gore
Al Bundy
 
2013-01-17 11:44:46 AM  
Well think about it. If you knew Obama was running the show back here, would you wait around for a rescue? Link

Stay Classy Republicans.
 
2013-01-17 11:45:19 AM  

Allen. The end.: I understand the need for corporations to drain natural resources from central Africa, but DAMN! I mean, it's sub-Saharan Africa! Is this really unexpected?


You know how I know you failed geography?
 
2013-01-17 11:45:38 AM  
"As recently as last year it seemed that he was turning the last stronghold of al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, the mountains up in the north where the Berber people are natives, against those Arabs that have been coming in from outside," he said. "The Algerian authorities have been enjoying significant successes in targeting al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb leaders."

Is Justin OK?
 
2013-01-17 11:47:14 AM  

I_C_Weener: YixilTesiphon: Also, it turns out intervening in the Middle East still leads to blowback. Who would have thought?

Is Mali really the Middle East?

original.antiwar.com


HAHA!

Looks like someone needs a geology lesson.
 
2013-01-17 11:47:40 AM  

mgshamster: Allen. The end.: lumiere: Allen. The end.: I understand the need for corporations to drain natural resources from central Africa, but DAMN! I mean, it's sub-Saharan Africa! Is this really unexpected?

Algeria is not sub-Saharan but they share a huge, and very hard to control border with the terrorist morons in North Mali.

/I'm probably the only Algerian-American on Fark, so if you have questions, I'm here

Ah, thanks! My map is at school. I thought Mali was central-west? WIth no coastline? I may be wrong...

You are posting on the internet, and you claim to not have a map available? Seriously?


Look, it's my Saturday, and I'm slow-moving, alright???
 
2013-01-17 11:48:15 AM  

RevMark: I_C_Weener: YixilTesiphon: Also, it turns out intervening in the Middle East still leads to blowback. Who would have thought?

Is Mali really the Middle East?

[original.antiwar.com image 461x461]

HAHA!

Looks like someone needs a geology lesson.


Pythagoras was Egyptian!
 
rpl
2013-01-17 11:48:59 AM  
I am calling for an international arms embargo and for the immediate deployment of international monitors with the ability to investigate human rights violations and violations of international humanitarian law as soon as possible to carry out independent, impartial assessments of violations by both sides.
The UN Security Council should meet urgently to impose an international arms embargo on France, Al Shabaab, and the armed groups in Algeria.
Pending such an embargo, all states should immediately suspend transfers of weapons, munitions and related equipment to France, Al Shabaab, and Algerian armed groups.
 
2013-01-17 11:49:09 AM  
There are at least half a dozen counter terrorist groups in the world that is capable of conducting these type of rescue operation that may have ended in a far better result. Since the hostages comes from many different countries I'm sure the governments were in constant contact with each other.

The question is who or why they authorized the local Algerian army to mount this operation? Why not GIGN, DEVGRU, SAS, Delta, GSG9, GROM.
 
2013-01-17 11:49:12 AM  

make me some tea: My wife is home watching HLN, she said the ticker at the bottom of the screen said "3 Americans escape from 'Al Jazeera' captors"

[i0.kym-cdn.com image 397x316]


Al Jazeera:  Sometimes we report the news, sometimes we make the news.

/They make a habit of capturing and beheading terrorists, so that their reporters don't get messed with.
 
2013-01-17 11:49:13 AM  
Why doesn't Fartbong Obummer do something?
 
2013-01-17 11:50:50 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: Delta,


Delta has been on the shiat list since Tora Bora back in 2001 which is why ST6 has been getting alot of exposure.
 
2013-01-17 11:51:01 AM  
 
2013-01-17 11:51:11 AM  
I know one of the hostages. Wish every source didn't have different numbers, as it would be nice to know what the actual survival rate is.
 
2013-01-17 11:51:55 AM  
Ctrl+F guns - No Matches

There you libs go again. For all we know the hostage takers were armed with broken beer bottles and staple guns, but we don't hear anybody screaming to ban beer and staplers.

Al Jazeera? More like Al Trytokillya.

Amirite?
 
2013-01-17 11:52:11 AM  

cgraves67: They still have some hostages it seems. So the question is: Seal Team 6 or drop a bomb and send your heartfelt condolensces to the families. Don't negotiate with these scum.


This. Seems pointless to surrender to, or negotiate with, Islamic terrorists. Best to assume the hostages are as good as dead already.

Attempt rescue if feasible, sure, otherwise, send in the drones.

Death by Hellfire is preferable to a slow beheading on TV, and has a chance of getting some of the scumbags.
 
2013-01-17 11:52:12 AM  
They took notes from Jimmy Carters play book.
 
2013-01-17 11:52:13 AM  
Who are we hating today, and are they required to hate us first?

Because doing things in the right order is important, you know.
 
2013-01-17 11:52:20 AM  
The religion of peace strikes again.
 
2013-01-17 11:52:56 AM  
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-01-17 11:52:57 AM  

I_C_Weener: RevMark: I_C_Weener: YixilTesiphon: Also, it turns out intervening in the Middle East still leads to blowback. Who would have thought?

Is Mali really the Middle East?

[original.antiwar.com image 461x461]

HAHA!

Looks like someone needs a geology lesson.

Pythagoras was Egyptian!


I see what you did there.
 
2013-01-17 11:53:18 AM  

CheetahOlivetti: It's a well-known fact that anything that starts with "Al" must be either a terrorist organization or a terrorist.
Al Qaeda
Al Jazeera
Al Gore
Al Bundy


Damn you, Dragon Reborn!
 
2013-01-17 11:54:46 AM  
media.giantbomb.com

You can do it, France!
 
2013-01-17 11:54:48 AM  
factoryconnection: "There was no ending to this scenario, short of a hail of near-magic bullets to take out all the militants before they could start killing hostages, that had a good outcome for the poor saps on that convoy."

No, but there are certainly better chances for a good outcome based on approach.
Gunship? Zero chance of anything short of "well, the bad guys are *also* in pieces".
Gunfight? Good chance at least a couple are walking away, decent chance a handful to half.

And even in an ambush gone bad, you still have the gunship to take out, say, a fleeing vehicle that likely still contains hostages.
This plan was essentially *starting* at the worst case scenario.
 
2013-01-17 11:55:14 AM  

I_C_Weener: RevMark: I_C_Weener: YixilTesiphon: Also, it turns out intervening in the Middle East still leads to blowback. Who would have thought?

Is Mali really the Middle East?

[original.antiwar.com image 461x461]

HAHA!

Looks like someone needs a geology lesson.

Pythagoras was Egyptian!


Well, they're muslin, so that's the same thing
 
2013-01-17 11:56:12 AM  

I_C_Weener: YixilTesiphon: Allen. The end.: I understand the need for corporations to drain natural resources from central Africa, but DAMN! I mean, it's sub-Saharan Africa! Is this really unexpected?

No it isn't...

Also, it turns out intervening in the Middle East still leads to blowback. Who would have thought?

Is Mali really the Middle East?

[original.antiwar.com image 461x461]


Middle East and North Africa are pretty commonly grouped together.
 
2013-01-17 11:57:29 AM  
i1.cpcache.com
 
rpl
2013-01-17 11:59:25 AM  
He meant "zionists".
 
2013-01-17 11:59:52 AM  
What does it mean when dozens of hostages are "killed"? Is that like when they are killed?
 
2013-01-17 12:02:56 PM  
Well...

upload.wikimedia.org

is just now starting to report on this story.
 
2013-01-17 12:03:54 PM  
Further proof that no one is immune to Irish charm.
 
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