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(NBC News)   The one item that promises to keep on giving past his presideny: Obama reverses the ban on basic federal research on gun violence   (vitals.nbcnews.com) divider line 640
    More: Hero, obama, scientific inquiry, gun violence, injury prevention, Gangs of New York, scientific research, NRA  
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3871 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jan 2013 at 9:06 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-17 07:41:26 AM
The NRA attacked some scientists, trying to discredit their research, endangering their jobs and even threatening their families

That sounds like the NRA.
 
2013-01-17 07:51:50 AM
Obama + hero tag + headline misspelling + guns = the most epic thread in Fark's history
 
2013-01-17 07:54:20 AM
This is a good thing.
 
2013-01-17 08:05:40 AM

Complicit: This is a good thing.


No, it isn't. The president is basically using elitist academic eggheads to find something as a means to take away guns from law abiding citizens.

Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause? That should be a major concern of the White House
 
2013-01-17 08:11:06 AM

Complicit: This is a good thing.


Well, I don't see any downside. Frankly I never knew there was such a ban, seems rather stupid that there would be. How much good federal research will do into a problem whose solutions are simply not viable in the current political landscape, well that's debatable. But at least I see no downside to this.
 
2013-01-17 08:15:06 AM

Aar1012: Complicit: This is a good thing.

No, it isn't. The president is basically using elitist academic eggheads to find something as a means to take away guns from law abiding citizens.

Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause? That should be a major concern of the White House


I hear that. Some video games are amazing in their carnage. It's hard to remember they are just games.

Aside from Looney Tunes, some of the most farked up violence I was exposed to as a child was in the Old Testament. There's obviously a link. Look at people like Eric Rudolph. We need a CDC study for that.
 
2013-01-17 08:18:40 AM

Aar1012: Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause? That should be a major concern of the White House


This is researching the public policy health impact of gun violence.  How about when someone walks into a building with a Nintendo DS and mows down a classroom of kids you can move it front in centre.

Until then, if it's a possible contributing factor like mental health in general, presumably it'll be one of several things in the mix for study already.
 
2013-01-17 08:18:55 AM

Aar1012: Complicit: This is a good thing.

No, it isn't. The president is basically using elitist academic eggheads to find something as a means to take away guns from law abiding citizens.

Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause? That should be a major concern of the White House


cry moar, gun nuts.

Bush banned allowing the CDC or any other agency to publish statistics.  This reverses the decision.  And adds that you now can actually compile stats on what America looks like as the most gun-owning nation in the world.
 
2013-01-17 08:21:59 AM

Aar1012: Complicit: This is a good thing.

No, it isn't. The president is basically using elitist academic eggheads to find something as a means to take away guns from law abiding citizens.

Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause? That should be a major concern of the White House


That'll get a lot of bites.
 
2013-01-17 08:27:37 AM

Aar1012: Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause?


That may well be a part of it; and is part of the research he's calling for from the CDC.

However, the levels of societal violence through knives, unarmed combat, tomahawks, hand grenades, trebuchet-launched sheep, and Zerg appears rather less epidemic and thus of lower social concern -- though the appearance may largely due to media focus. No doubt FoxNews can provide some fair and balanced coverage by drawing attention to these under-noticed incidents.

(IEDs might be a more realistic under-noticed threat. The primary defense there is that while there's a remarkable array of explosives that can be made from ordinary supplies at the grocery store, the knowledge is somewhat specialized, and effectively requires a seriously OCD personality to not be a self-correcting problem. Still, the CDC might also want to quietly look at that. I can't think of too many massively popular video games featuring bomb-based violence, but no doubt Farkers will be happy to suggest a list.)
 
2013-01-17 08:28:35 AM
I've said this before, gun policy guys..

Change is coming.  When 60-70 % of Americans wants changes, then change is coming.. regardless of how many ITG's might post differently.

You can either help the non gun owners, that want to align the USA with the rest of the civilized world, and make policy changes that make sense...  and best protects our freedoms that only you really give a sh*t about, and at the same time protects America's kids from more shooting sprees...

OR  you can keep screaming like the NRA, in which case we'll just ignore you and keep going on legislating changes without you, whether or not it works, because frankly, we've heard more than enough of your noise.

What this means:

1) I dont give a fk if its a magazine or a clip.  You're the gun geek.  Explain it without anger for once.
2) I don't care if you think journo's are idiots with regard to guns.  Doesn't matter.  I know journos are idiots sometimes too.  So what.

3) I don't care what your fingers are pried off of.  Your dicks, from the sound of it.

4) I don't care if you think a 220 year old scrap of paper matters.  The Constitution is very much in dire need of a rewrite, end to end.  Nobody agrees what it means any more.

5) I don't care what you think you need to defend your home.  You are much more likely to die in your home if you own a gun than if you don't.

What I care about is getting guns out of the hands of idiots, criminals and the mentally ill.  NOT arming myself to the teeth to be their equal.

GOT IT?

If you don't, cry moar.

If you do, sit down and help us fix this sh*t while keeping you having fun at the gun range, which honestly is not a bad way to spend a day.
 
2013-01-17 08:29:03 AM
Allow me to use my psychic abilities to summarize the upcoming CDC report:

"Guns are bad and should be banned."

You are welcome!
 
2013-01-17 08:31:23 AM
We have to find an industry that stands to gain from the demise of the gun industry.

It worked for the abolition of cigarettes. We made it possible for trial lawyers and the government to make money of that industry. And something miraculous happened, The whole tobacco industry almost went away in the course of 10 years. Something that many (incl. myself) thought impossible.

The same can and will happen with the national gun industry. Between the insurance companies, lawyers, and the government itself, they can't wait to extract money from the gun industry fat cats.

This is an important step towards that direction.
 
2013-01-17 08:38:37 AM

Generation_D: If you do, sit down and help us fix this sh*t while keeping you having fun at the gun range, which honestly is not a bad way to spend a day.


so much THIS.  the gun enthusiasts of this country need to get their destiny out of the hands of nutbars like the NRA and advocate for sensible policy.  if you're just going to go with the "my cold dead hands" routine then the majority, who DO NOT own guns, are going to take control of that destiny for you.  you've got a chance to take charge here.
 
2013-01-17 08:42:55 AM

Aar1012: Complicit: This is a good thing.

No, it isn't. The president is basically using elitist academic eggheads to find something as a means to take away guns from law abiding citizens.


Or.....the scientists at the CDC may find that there are OTHER causes to gun violence other than just access to guns. Guns have been part of American culture since day one. Why is it only in the past 10-20 years has there been a spate of mass shootings?

At least the general # of homicides have been declining since the ....70s? Give or take. But, I'd wager to bet that even with the loose gun laws of the early 20th century, violent crime wasn't a horrific problem in the US.

What *else* outside of access to guns would have made the last 30-40 years such a bad time for gun violence?
 
2013-01-17 08:43:54 AM

abb3w: trebuchet-launched sheep cows


FTFY

/fetchez le vache
//RUN AWAY
 
2013-01-17 08:47:15 AM

Generation_D: I've said this before, gun policy guys..


1) I dont give a fk ...

2) I don't care ...

3) I don't care ...

4) I don't care ...

5) I don't care ...



One might say the pro-gun lobby sounds like a broken record. That's, in part, because you do, too.

On another note, it's interesting to me that you don't care about the very thing that protects your right to say these things. That makes me think you don't really know what it's like to live without rights. My military service forced me to live without some (voluntarily and temporarily, so I have no problem with it). More importantly I saw, first-hand, places where saying the wrong thing in the hearing of the wrong people would get you 'disappeared'. Sometimes that would also include your family, just for gits and shiggles. Historically (read: not my opinion; it is a fact that this actually has happened multiple times) the loss of free speech comes very quickly after the guns are taken away and just before dissent is crushed.

Maybe you don't care if your rights are eroded (starting with ones you don't use, but it doesn't stop there) but I do. Maybe I don't believe we'll get to that place in this country any time soon. But I definitely KNOW that unless we keep caring about our naturally-born rights we will lose them, one by one.

On topic, though, I find nothing wrong with research. While we're at it, I'd like to see research that explores the relationship between how much people know about violence, firearms, firearm violence, and how much they want to push their opinion of what's "needed" onto others.
 
2013-01-17 08:47:45 AM

Generation_D: What I care about is getting guns out of the hands of idiots, criminals and the mentally ill. NOT arming myself to the teeth to be their equal.

GOT IT?

If you don't, cry moar.

If you do, sit down and help us fix this sh*t while keeping you having fun at the gun range, which honestly is not a bad way to spend a day.



My take, as an anti-gun legislation person whose friends are all anti-gun legislation, but I've dated guy with that tolerated gun legislation (and he was so polite about it, I barely noticed).

1. you do not talk gun legislation around me
2. you do not talk gun legislation around my friends (same reason, they don't like gun legislation).
3. you do not talk gun legislation inside, anywhere
4. you do not talk gun legislation on my property. that's right. I don't care that there's a deck, don't talk gun legislation on it. This also includes areas close enough that the talk of gun legislation would enter my home- aka, under windows, etc.
5. If you such a douchebag that you resemble gun legislation at all, you are no longer welcome in my home.

And I'm a pretty hardcore anti-gun legislation So if your BF has rules stricter than mine, you've got issues.


/sorry
//maybe I should go and get more coffee
 
2013-01-17 08:49:37 AM
There was a ban on research to begin with???
 
2013-01-17 08:51:38 AM

DamnYankees: There was a ban on research to begin with???


There was a ban on researching the potential medical benefits of marijuana.

When there's a lobby big enough...
 
2013-01-17 08:56:18 AM

DamnYankees: There was a ban on research to begin with???


Thus:

CDC's funding of research on gun violence peaked at about $2.6 million in 1996. The results included findings such as the observation that homicides are significantly more likely to occur in households where a gun is kept. The gun lobby pressured Congress to stop this line of inquiry, and in the mid-1990s legislators issued a series of advisory messages and some legal restrictions on agency actions.

Among other steps, legislators added a directive in the bill that funds CDC's injury prevention center that said "none of the funds ... may be used to advocate or promote gun control." Congress also cut CDC's budget by the amount it was spending on gun violence research, without specifying where the cut should be made. Managers got the message and cut gun-related research.
 
2013-01-17 08:58:56 AM
What if gun violence is caused by... Immunizations?
 
2013-01-17 09:06:21 AM

Pfactor: Generation_D: I've said this before, gun policy guys..

1) I dont give a fk ...

2) I don't care ...

3) I don't care ...

4) I don't care ...

5) I don't care ...


One might say the pro-gun lobby sounds like a broken record. That's, in part, because you do, too.

On another note, it's interesting to me that you don't care about the very thing that protects your right to say these things. That makes me think you don't really know what it's like to live without rights. My military service forced me to live without some (voluntarily and temporarily, so I have no problem with it). More importantly I saw, first-hand, places where saying the wrong thing in the hearing of the wrong people would get you 'disappeared'. Sometimes that would also include your family, just for gits and shiggles. Historically (read: not my opinion; it is a fact that this actually has happened multiple times) the loss of free speech comes very quickly after the guns are taken away and just before dissent is crushed.

Maybe you don't care if your rights are eroded (starting with ones you don't use, but it doesn't stop there) but I do. Maybe I don't believe we'll get to that place in this country any time soon. But I definitely KNOW that unless we keep caring about our naturally-born rights we will lose them, one by one.

On topic, though, I find nothing wrong with research. While we're at it, I'd like to see research that explores the relationship between how much people know about violence, firearms, firearm violence, and how much they want to push their opinion of what's "needed" onto others.


And when the researchers come to the same conclusion that the rest of the civilized world figured out years ago, that some reasonable restrictions are better for the whole....?
Also, that Patriot Act erodes more of your rights than anything the CDC is going to come up with... You're already less free than you were, did you even notice?
 
2013-01-17 09:08:42 AM

DamnYankees: There was a ban on research to begin with???


Considering how much the ATF has been neutered, this surprises you?
 
2013-01-17 09:10:17 AM
most of the 23 things or whatever it was is a pretty sensible list and conservatives are shiatting their pants over it like it's as serious as dijon mustard or something... come on guys this should only get your outrage factor up to Arugula or mayyybee queen ipod gift if you're a real gun nut.
 
2013-01-17 09:10:20 AM
Data?!?  OH NOES!!!
 
2013-01-17 09:14:32 AM
Maybe there is a correlation between AR15s and sugar in breakfast cereal.
 
2013-01-17 09:15:21 AM

I_C_Weener: What if gun violence is caused by... Immunizations?


What if it's caused by me giving your mom creampies?
 
2013-01-17 09:16:07 AM
You sad freaks STILL think Obama is going to take your guns away?

This is why there will be no meaningful reforms with regards to gun safety, and why we'd better start getting used to these mass shootings.  One side is completely delusional and panicked and no longer in the same zip code as rational people.
 
2013-01-17 09:16:44 AM

Aar1012: elitist academic eggheads


So "smart people", then. Yeah, we wouldn't want smart people anywhere near a discussion about gun control, would we?

Aar1012: Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause? That should be a major concern of the White House


There've already been tons of studies about this. We don't need another. Also, the NRA is so worried about video games? Why did it just release a FPS video game itself?
 
2013-01-17 09:17:47 AM

Aar1012: Complicit: This is a good thing.

No, it isn't. The president is basically using elitist academic eggheads to find something as a means to take away guns from law abiding citizens.

Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause? That should be a major concern of the White House


7/10

Concise and to the point. No excessive herpity derp.

Well played.
 
2013-01-17 09:18:01 AM
I'm so glad it only took four separate shootings in a 12 month span to stir the interest of lawmakers. Before that, they had no problem accepting bribes from the NRA. Good job guys. We're all proud of you and your lackadaisical attitude towards representing the American public.
 
2013-01-17 09:18:12 AM

DamnYankees: There was a ban on research to begin with???


For 17 years. Its one of those things the NRA forgets to mention in its ads. But even though there are more gun shops in America than Starbucks in the entire farking world, I'm sure the secret police will show up any minute to take away all our guns.  I'm sure the next time a Republican is sworn in though, that ban will be put right back in.
 
2013-01-17 09:18:46 AM

hillbillypharmacist: DamnYankees: There was a ban on research to begin with???

Thus:

CDC's funding of research on gun violence peaked at about $2.6 million in 1996. The results included findings such as the observation that homicides are significantly more likely to occur in households where a gun is kept. The gun lobby pressured Congress to stop this line of inquiry, and in the mid-1990s legislators issued a series of advisory messages and some legal restrictions on agency actions.

Among other steps, legislators added a directive in the bill that funds CDC's injury prevention center that said "none of the funds ... may be used to advocate or promote gun control." Congress also cut CDC's budget by the amount it was spending on gun violence research, without specifying where the cut should be made. Managers got the message and cut gun-related research.


That's seriously messed up.
 
2013-01-17 09:19:29 AM
I_C_Weener: What if gun violence is caused by... Immunizations?

Serious Black: What if it's caused by me giving your mom creampies?


i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-17 09:19:52 AM
You ever notice how the people who are afraid of knowledge pretty much always end up on the wrong side of history?
 
2013-01-17 09:19:55 AM
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-01-17 09:20:40 AM

DubyaHater: I'm so glad it only took four separate shootings in a 12 month span to stir the interest of lawmakers. Before that, they had no problem accepting bribes from the NRA. Good job guys. We're all proud of you and your lackadaisical attitude towards representing the American public.


No, the lawmakers still don't give a fark, it's the people who suddenly seem to be waking up and realizing that gun violence isn't relegated to poor minority communities, and therefore we should probably care about it. The lawmakers would still be sitting on their asses doing nothing if the people hadn't started shouting.
 
2013-01-17 09:21:14 AM

Serious Black: I_C_Weener: What if gun violence is caused by... Immunizations?

What if it's caused by me giving your mom creampies?


Well, that escalated quickly.
 
2013-01-17 09:21:48 AM
PresiDenny's where the waffles are cheap and served up quick... errr where the eggheads roll over easy... no... umm...

got nothin'
 
2013-01-17 09:22:00 AM

Somacandra: I_C_Weener: What if gun violence is caused by... Immunizations?

Serious Black: What if it's caused by me giving your mom creampies?


Damn. :)
 
2013-01-17 09:22:05 AM

Aar1012: Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause? That should be a major concern of the White House


Not bad, except that this was actually addressed on the front page of CNN yesterday.

Still 7/10 though. You can't help the timing thing.
 
2013-01-17 09:23:23 AM

I_C_Weener: Damn. :)


Great minds think alike and all that :-)
 
2013-01-17 09:23:32 AM

vpb: The NRA attacked some scientists, trying to discredit their research, endangering their jobs and even threatening their families

That sounds like the NRA.


Consulting companies that specialized in Global Warming Denial "research" will be expanding, so if you can fake public health research and have no soul, get your resume ready.
 
2013-01-17 09:24:10 AM

Aar1012: Complicit: This is a good thing.

No, it isn't. The president is basically using elitist academic eggheads to find something as a means to take away guns from law abiding citizens.

Why doesn't the president use the CDC to research video games and the amount of violence that they cause? That should be a major concern of the White House


cache.ohinternet.com
 
2013-01-17 09:25:31 AM

cman: Obama + hero tag + headline misspelling + guns = the most epic thread in Fark's history


I C what you did there
 
2013-01-17 09:26:38 AM
Why was it not ok for the federal government, or anyone for that matter, to research gun violence in the first place?
 
2013-01-17 09:27:00 AM

BillCo: Allow me to use my psychic abilities to summarize the upcoming CDC report:

"Guns are bad and should be banned."

You are welcome!



Oh, waaaaah.

First of all, I don't believe the CDC's research makes policy recommendations (correct me if I'm wrong, somebody.) According to tfa the last research regarding guns they did, back in the 90s, only presented statistics of gun ownership and deaths by firearm. This offended the delicate sensibilities of the NRA and they successfully strongarmed the CDC into avoiding gun death research.

Second, look -- gun laws are being made, and will continue to to be made, as long as there's political pressure to do solve a problem. Either we can stumble around in the dark, make rules based on little more than emotion, and wind up with a grab bag of new regulations some of which might be stupid and useless, or we can make informed decisions based on what we know. Me, I think the pro-gun people have made an excellent case against the assault weapons bans, and that's an example of the kind of regulation that knowledge from good research could have prevented. But, no, since scientific investigation of gun deaths hasn't been Politically Correct for almost 20 years thanks to the right wing, it's more likely that you'll get stuck with some dumb regulations that won't help anything.

And if that happens it'll ultimately be largely your own damn fault for effectively forbidding any scientific inquiry into the problem.
 
2013-01-17 09:27:03 AM

nekom: Complicit: This is a good thing.

Well, I don't see any downside. Frankly I never knew there was such a ban, seems rather stupid that there would be. How much good federal research will do into a problem whose solutions are simply not viable in the current political landscape, well that's debatable. But at least I see no downside to this.


Agree. If a group like, just to pull one out of the air, the NRA doesn't want news stories about frequency of gun deaths then just don't do any research on the topic. Low and behold no statistics on gun deaths. Problem solved. We can solve the pesky problem of global warming in a similar way by prohibiting scientists from measuring the planets temperature.
 
2013-01-17 09:28:16 AM
The CDC's gun research was defunded because they do a a very poor job of it.
 
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