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(Time)   How Dr. Dre convinced the world that you need $300 headphones to listen to your highly compressed MP3s   (business.time.com) divider line 260
    More: Interesting, Dr Dre, Jimmy Iovine, market dominance, NPD Group, LL Cool J  
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9820 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Jan 2013 at 10:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-17 02:45:41 PM

fusillade762: GAT_00: I can't stand earbuds,

Seconded. I don't see how people can use them.


Depends what you're doing.

Better than jogging or working out with big ass headphones on.

/26 minutes
 
2013-01-17 02:52:47 PM
I'm going to post this info in every music hardware thread until the owner's of Crystal Cables become filthy, stinking rich from the sheer audacity of selling such a thing as these. Absolute Dream Interconnects, Speaker Cables and Power Cords: $15,000.00/meter
 
2013-01-17 02:56:04 PM
Full custom Ultimate Ears. Made from a mold of your ear canal. Friggin incredible if you can drop a grand on earbuds.  I think they can fit up to 4 drivers in them these days.
ultimateears.logitech.com
 
2013-01-17 02:57:49 PM
Or until I learn to use apostrophe's, man I don't even...
 
2013-01-17 02:58:59 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: So I've been using a $90 pair of Bose ear buds, specifically the IE2 because the shape of teh ear bud funnels the music right into my ears"
www.bose.com


I have the older model of these and I'm quite happy with them as well. I hate can headphones, they're heavy, they're hot, and I specifically (I know I'm the minority here) dislike noise cancelling/isolation. I'd like to be able to hear what I'm doing AND know if someone's trying to talk to me.

Also have one of these:
ecx.images-amazon.com

Sound not as good as the Bose, but the wireless is nice and the form-factor is pretty awesome, with the controls on your collarbone. They're earbuds, but you can do the the same 'wear on neck' thing you do with cans when you're not using them w/o having wires dangling off you. The tips though, uncontoured and can actually push them in too deep if you're an idiot. Does the whole send/receive call thing too, but never really use that.
 
2013-01-17 03:00:18 PM

fluffy2097: Full custom Ultimate Ears. Made from a mold of your ear canal. Friggin incredible if you can drop a grand on earbuds.  I think they can fit up to 4 drivers in them these days.
[ultimateears.logitech.com image 511x284]


Those are freaking awesome. I've been imagining repurposing a pair of high-quality hearing aids as custom earbuds. The set my ex has was bluetooth compatible, and could be tweaked via bluetooth and proprietary PC software.
 
2013-01-17 03:11:20 PM

Holographic Shimmering Pork: Those are freaking awesome. I've been imagining repurposing a pair of high-quality hearing aids as custom earbuds. The set my ex has was bluetooth compatible, and could be tweaked via bluetooth and proprietary PC software.


If you watch TV or live music, you will see that all the performers today have earbuds.

They are ALL made by Ultimate Ears. All of them.

As an added bonus to sounding more incredible then any earbud has a right to, they provide something like -15 to -25 db noise reduction just from having a good fit in your ear. They are like earplugs that include audiophile quality speakers inside.
 
2013-01-17 03:12:12 PM
This is why I love FARK.
When I woke up today, I had no idea I'd be balls deep in a headphone porn thread.
 
2013-01-17 03:12:14 PM

stappawho:
Better than jogging or working out with big ass headphones on.

/26 minutes


You're wearing them wrong.
/my hobby...putting hyphens in the wrong place
 
2013-01-17 03:13:41 PM

ProfessorOhki: Uchiha_Cycliste: So I've been using a $90 pair of Bose ear buds, specifically the IE2 because the shape of teh ear bud funnels the music right into my ears"
www.bose.com

I have the older model of these and I'm quite happy with them as well. I hate can headphones, they're heavy, they're hot, and I specifically (I know I'm the minority here) dislike noise cancelling/isolation. I'd like to be able to hear what I'm doing AND know if someone's trying to talk to me.

Also have one of these:
[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

Sound not as good as the Bose, but the wireless is nice and the form-factor is pretty awesome, with the controls on your collarbone. They're earbuds, but you can do the the same 'wear on neck' thing you do with cans when you're not using them w/o having wires dangling off you. The tips though, uncontoured and can actually push them in too deep if you're an idiot. Does the whole send/receive call thing too, but never really use that.


Those sound great for in the office, but I'd be worried about the electronics in the rain and drenched with sweat, especially day after day after day. My trick for the wires is to run the wires behind me under my jersey and then have it pop out the back and into my right side jersey pocket. Been working for me for years.
 
2013-01-17 03:15:14 PM

MorePeasPlease: This is why I love FARK.
When I woke up today, I had no idea I'd be balls deep in a headphone porn thread.


I think you might be wearing them wrong...
 
2013-01-17 03:16:39 PM

fluffy2097: Full custom Ultimate Ears. Made from a mold of your ear canal. Friggin incredible if you can drop a grand on earbuds.  I think they can fit up to 4 drivers in them these days.
[ultimateears.logitech.com image 511x284]


Are the molds a soft plastic or a hard plastic. Hard plastic form fitted for in-the-canal hearing aids really start to suck after a few hours. They get sweaty, waxy, uncomfortable and just plain hurt after a while. A soft plastic I can imagine being more tolerable over an appreciable amount of time.
 
2013-01-17 03:17:06 PM

TruBluTroll: Right now I'm working on a project at work that involves cranking some of these babies to the 80KHz range.

[www.stereophile.com image 200x334]

/Love my job.


I would love to wear those on the subway just to see the response.
 
2013-01-17 03:18:15 PM

ProfessorOhki: I think you might be wearing them wrong...


Sorry, I can't hear you over the sounnnnnngh-oh-oohhmmmmm...
 
2013-01-17 03:18:55 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: ProfessorOhki: Uchiha_Cycliste: So I've been using a $90 pair of Bose ear buds, specifically the IE2 because the shape of teh ear bud funnels the music right into my ears"
www.bose.com

I have the older model of these and I'm quite happy with them as well. I hate can headphones, they're heavy, they're hot, and I specifically (I know I'm the minority here) dislike noise cancelling/isolation. I'd like to be able to hear what I'm doing AND know if someone's trying to talk to me.

Also have one of these:
[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

Sound not as good as the Bose, but the wireless is nice and the form-factor is pretty awesome, with the controls on your collarbone. They're earbuds, but you can do the the same 'wear on neck' thing you do with cans when you're not using them w/o having wires dangling off you. The tips though, uncontoured and can actually push them in too deep if you're an idiot. Does the whole send/receive call thing too, but never really use that.

Those sound great for in the office, but I'd be worried about the electronics in the rain and drenched with sweat, especially day after day after day. My trick for the wires is to run the wires behind me under my jersey and then have it pop out the back and into my right side jersey pocket. Been working for me for years.


They'd be total ass for anything more than walking or biking. The collar thing get's real old real fast if you're doing anything with up and down motion involved. It's pretty light so it just bounces continuously.
 
2013-01-17 03:24:43 PM

TruBluTroll: Right now I'm working on a project at work that involves cranking some of these babies to the 80KHz range.

[www.stereophile.com image 200x334]

/Love my job.


80KHZ? Are you composing music that only dogs can hear?
 
2013-01-17 03:26:55 PM

ProfessorOhki: Uchiha_Cycliste: ProfessorOhki: Uchiha_Cycliste: So I've been using a $90 pair of Bose ear buds, specifically the IE2 because the shape of teh ear bud funnels the music right into my ears"
www.bose.com

I have the older model of these and I'm quite happy with them as well. I hate can headphones, they're heavy, they're hot, and I specifically (I know I'm the minority here) dislike noise cancelling/isolation. I'd like to be able to hear what I'm doing AND know if someone's trying to talk to me.

Also have one of these:
[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

Sound not as good as the Bose, but the wireless is nice and the form-factor is pretty awesome, with the controls on your collarbone. They're earbuds, but you can do the the same 'wear on neck' thing you do with cans when you're not using them w/o having wires dangling off you. The tips though, uncontoured and can actually push them in too deep if you're an idiot. Does the whole send/receive call thing too, but never really use that.

Those sound great for in the office, but I'd be worried about the electronics in the rain and drenched with sweat, especially day after day after day. My trick for the wires is to run the wires behind me under my jersey and then have it pop out the back and into my right side jersey pocket. Been working for me for years.

They'd be total ass for anything more than walking or biking. The collar thing get's real old real fast if you're doing anything with up and down motion involved. It's pretty light so it just bounces continuously.


I can see that, thanks for confirming.


Hey! Talk of the Nation is talking about Drew right now. Like, RIGHT now. neat!


anyways... thanks for confirming. Sounds neat for the office though.
 
2013-01-17 03:27:30 PM

FlashHarry: GAT_00: There's far more damage done by the process of mastering by reducing the range of sound than there could ever be in your choice of compression media.

the best human ears can only hear from 20 hz to 20k. a decent mastering engineer should be able to reproduce this range. but when you listen to a 256kbps MP3, you're losing a lot more of the information than if you listened to the original, even if it were recorded and not live.


Leave a oscillator slightly above 20k and somebody will hear it (probably a young'in. I couldn't hear past 16k at 16 and now wear an onion on my belt), but CDs will go up to 22k (but don't count on it. There was no way to make a modern filter in 1984 and even the ones that went down to 20k were nasty. Mastering all the way out to 22k could easily cause backward compatibility problems with existing CD players).

256k MP3? Uncompressed CDs run 1400kps, FLAC should give about 800kps. If you can hear that tiny difference between 256kMP3 and 800kpsFLAC you need a better encoder (which wouldn't surprise me at all).

If you ask me, a bigger change has been the complete absence of dynamic range. Kakofonous A. Discord would be proud.
 
2013-01-17 03:28:39 PM

TommyymmoT: TruBluTroll: Right now I'm working on a project at work that involves cranking some of these babies to the 80KHz range.

[www.stereophile.com image 200x334]

/Love my job.

80KHZ? Are you composing music that only dogs can hear?


That or an ultrasonic ear cleaning system.
 
2013-01-17 03:56:44 PM

Ecliptic: Sony MDR-V6. That is all.


Best Bargain, hands down, good nice flat response.
 
2013-01-17 04:01:57 PM
thenewamericanconsumer.com


www.mrgadget.com.au

What i'm currently using. Good enough for me.
 
2013-01-17 04:05:20 PM

stappawho: BEER_ME_in_CT: FlashHarry: it's sad; there's an entire generation that has never heard an uncompressed piece of music.

Let me guess, on Vinyl? LOL.

Listening to an MP3 on 300 headphones or watching Netflix streaming on your new 60" HDTV. Both are equally pointless.

So I should buy a second TV for streaming Netflix?


You can stream Netflix in HD 1080p, you know. I'll still get a BD when I want 7.1 surround, but for general watching, like catching up on "The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret", streaming is just fine.
 
2013-01-17 04:11:58 PM

FlashHarry: GAT_00: There's far more damage done by the process of mastering by reducing the range of sound than there could ever be in your choice of compression media.

the best human ears can only hear from 20 hz to 20k. a decent mastering engineer should be able to reproduce this range. but when you listen to a 256kbps MP3, you're losing a lot more of the information than if you listened to the original, even if it were recorded and not live.


In this case, the range of human hearing is not relevant. Super Audio CD actually sounded better than regular CD's for one big reason: those overtones, the sounds up to 96k, have an effect on those tones from 20-20k. The sounds you can't hear affect the sounds you can hear. This is the biggest reason why live music always sounds best.
 
2013-01-17 04:13:35 PM
Never understood the hi-fi movement because whenever I'm listening to music, it's during another activity

driving..
working...
studying...
exercising...

so even though I love listening to music I rarely give it enough of my attention to warrant higher quality. 256 Kbps is perfectly adequate for me, and headphones I pretty much only use at work and even then, only in one ear so I can hear the phone, questions, etc.

to summarize, I have absolutely zero need for expensive headphones or speakers of any kind.
 
2013-01-17 04:16:17 PM

Cream of Meat: [thenewamericanconsumer.com image 500x554]


[www.mrgadget.com.au image 308x308]

What i'm currently using. Good enough for me.


I've tried those, and they're quite good, especially at that price.
Though I really wouldn't call it compromising, because the sound really nice.
I was looking at some Grado PS100s, but they were way out of my price range at $1800.
 
2013-01-17 04:22:05 PM

Hella Fark: Never understood the hi-fi movement because whenever I'm listening to music, it's during another activity

driving..
working...
studying...
exercising...

so even though I love listening to music I rarely give it enough of my attention to warrant higher quality. 256 Kbps is perfectly adequate for me, and headphones I pretty much only use at work and even then, only in one ear so I can hear the phone, questions, etc.

to summarize, I have absolutely zero need for expensive headphones or speakers of any kind.


It's sort of like wine appreciation. Some people embrace all the little nuances of a fine wine, and are willing to pay the price, and some people add club soda, and fruit.
When it comes to audio, you fall in the latter category, especially if you're listening with only one ear.
 
2013-01-17 04:23:41 PM
JVC HAS160, best $10 earphones money can buy.
img525.imageshack.us
the ones I have are green, but this is the first image I found
 
2013-01-17 04:45:49 PM
www.headphones.com
Audio Technica ATH-A700. Not the most technically exact, but great all rounders, good separation and exceedingly comfortable.
 
2013-01-17 05:13:42 PM

ProfessorOhki: TommyymmoT: TruBluTroll: Right now I'm working on a project at work that involves cranking some of these babies to the 80KHz range.

[www.stereophile.com image 200x334]

/Love my job.

80KHZ? Are you composing music that only dogs can hear?

That or an ultrasonic ear cleaning system.


Audiophiles insist they can hear things normal people can't even though a human's high-frequency hearing ability starts to decline after age 20.  If you know someone 50+ who is spending thousands of dollars on audio equipment, then you know an idiot, because they are physically incapable of telling the difference between high and low end anymore.
 
2013-01-17 05:44:51 PM

Abulafia: There are two completely different types of compression that are being referred to seemingly interchangeably in this thread. Let's just clear up a couple things here: the first occurrence of the word compression comes in the thread name. The compression being referred to here and in a number of the comments in the thread is data compression. This type of compression, used to squeeze a digital signal into a smaller number of bytes, was highly necessary in the early days of digital audio and -- among many other things -- allowed Apple to claim that you could put 1,000 songs in your pocket. They failed to mention that these thousand songs would sound vaguely like oatmeal.

These sorts of data compression algorithms were invented by some very clever people and are based on some fairly accurate psychacoustic masking models, so they are a little amazing in how much they can reduce a song's file size without massively impacting the signal quality... but wow the algorithms can do a real number on fidelity if pushed too hard (which they almost always are). This sort of compression also seems somewhat less necessary these days when portable music players could easily store >1,000 digitally uncompressed songs.


But there's an entirely different sort of compression that's being discussed elsewhere in the comments, namely dynamic range compression. This type of compression reduces the amplitude of the highest level signals and brings up the lowest level signals. It's necessary for LPs because of their inherent lack of a large dynamic range (the difference in the lowest level and highest level signals the record can reproduce). That said, a bit of compression can actually be very musical sounding.

Overuse of dynamic range compression, on the other hand, squashes the sound in a very unpleasant way, resulting in music that lacks dynamics.This makes the music simultaneously unexciting and very fatiguing to listen to. In a terrible turn of events, it also allows mixers and mast ...


Preach it!
 
2013-01-17 05:46:23 PM

Lsherm: ProfessorOhki: TommyymmoT: TruBluTroll: Right now I'm working on a project at work that involves cranking some of these babies to the 80KHz range.

[www.stereophile.com image 200x334]

/Love my job.

80KHZ? Are you composing music that only dogs can hear?

That or an ultrasonic ear cleaning system.

Audiophiles insist they can hear things normal people can't even though a human's high-frequency hearing ability starts to decline after age 20.  If you know someone 50+ who is spending thousands of dollars on audio equipment, then you know an idiot, because they are physically incapable of telling the difference between high and low end anymore.


Oh, I get that, but that's in the range where you never were able to hear it. At 80kHz, your dog can't hear it.

/Well, unless literally Batman
 
2013-01-17 05:57:20 PM

fluffy2097: Holographic Shimmering Pork: Those are freaking awesome. I've been imagining repurposing a pair of high-quality hearing aids as custom earbuds. The set my ex has was bluetooth compatible, and could be tweaked via bluetooth and proprietary PC software.

If you watch TV or live music, you will see that all the performers today have earbuds.

They are ALL made by Ultimate Ears. All of them.

As an added bonus to sounding more incredible then any earbud has a right to, they provide something like -15 to -25 db noise reduction just from having a good fit in your ear. They are like earplugs that include audiophile quality speakers inside.


I have been wanting an in-ear monitoring system for the stage. Good to know. I should start saving my rubles and shekels.
 
2013-01-17 06:10:04 PM

Lsherm: ProfessorOhki: TommyymmoT: TruBluTroll: Right now I'm working on a project at work that involves cranking some of these babies to the 80KHz range.

[www.stereophile.com image 200x334]

/Love my job.

80KHZ? Are you composing music that only dogs can hear?

That or an ultrasonic ear cleaning system.

Audiophiles insist they can hear things normal people can't even though a human's high-frequency hearing ability starts to decline after age 20.  If you know someone 50+ who is spending thousands of dollars on audio equipment, then you know an idiot, because they are physically incapable of telling the difference between high and low end anymore.


I realize that, but 80K? Dogs can't even hear that high.
Actually, humans can hear some very high frequencies, only not as loud, to the point of being imperceptible, and it gets worse as you age.

One of my favorite live sound tricks, is to use (a bunch of) super tweeters that go up to 21.5K (JBL slots),  and use mics that can reach 20k or so as well.
Then you CRANK 16, or 17K, on up.
It adds a very nice element of clarity, and transparency, as you force an extended range.
 
2013-01-17 06:21:32 PM
What, did you think he sold them all?
 
2013-01-17 07:02:59 PM
Beats are shiat headphones. Adding a "compression chip" to make everything sound super-squished doesn't make it "better"

A fool and their money...
 
2013-01-17 07:18:16 PM
I like my Skullcandy headphones.

/$25
//lifetime warranty
 
2013-01-17 07:34:10 PM

Rwa2play: Coco LaFemme: I don't care if I'm listening to .mp3s, .wavs, .flacs, cassettes, or vinyl.....I'm not paying $300 for headphones.  I don't see how anyone could blow that kind of money on such a frivolous product.

Unless they have incredible sound quality, balance and durability then...no, you don't.


...and unless you listen through them for dozens of hours a day on some insane commute then they're not worth it.

Even the shiattiest of free headphones will "do", for a brief commute in the morning. No one does their main listening and enjoyment of music by headphones.

Anyone who refuses to listen unless it's as great as can be is a fool.
 
2013-01-17 07:38:33 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: cannotsuggestaname: I have listened to music through some Beats headphones... and I'll take my Sennheiser 598's, for $100 less, any day of the week.

I've got some Sennheiser HD280Pros.  They're flat response and have some caveats, but for ~$100 they're keen.


Love me the HD280s. Wouldn't want anything else in the environment I'm in. My house eats headphones.
 
2013-01-17 07:40:03 PM
My best headphones have been my Koss PortaPro. They have lasted longer than my first marriage did (about 20 years). However, I have some $200 BlueAnt phones that give the Koss some good competition.

Either way, Beats are crappy Monster products. People want them for fashion, not quality.
 
2013-01-17 07:54:10 PM

Ishidan: stappawho:
Better than jogging or working out with big ass headphones on.

/26 minutes

You're wearing them wrong.
/my hobby...putting hyphens in the wrong place


just wait till the bass kicks in
 
2013-01-17 08:01:28 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Sony makes ear sofas that deliver nearly as much bass for a lot less.

[www.ybsales.net image 300x300]

They do break up before I reach the volume I like though, but it seems people enjoy listening to noise these days.


That's the same kind as the pair I got for Christmas!

I love big, fluffy headphones and wear them as earmuffs fall-through-spring, then switch to noise-cancelling earbuds. Good headphones can be as cheap as $5 (if you befriend an electronics-store associate and get some Sennheisers on clearance that got screwed by the plan-o-gram layout,) or as pricy as you like, but my hearing has never been good enough to tell a difference from those priced at $30-on-sale and those costing a lot more.

My sister and I have a system. Every Christmas, she gets me headphones and I get her an external hard drive, since those are the typical things we can either fill up or wear out inside of a year, (I wear headphones a LOT,) and we both club together to get our brother his present, which is usually something like a laptop, a major car repair or clothes and some vodka. (He isn't a Farker, but should be.) Since she is in college and therefore relatively broke, whereas I'm doing okay, this is a good system. Every year since we were 20 and 16, the equipment has gotten progressively better, up to good Sonys or Sennheisers and nice 3TB drives. I shall have to warn her, though, not to switch to really ultra-fancy Bose ones or something once she's doing better finance-wise, as my bum ear really wouldn't appreciate them and I'd be happy with $20 'phones and the remainder of the budget spent on gas to come visit me more often.
 
2013-01-17 08:58:08 PM
I have never spent more than $20 on a set of headphones and i never will.
 
2013-01-17 09:42:59 PM

ZeroCorpse: My best headphones have been my Koss PortaPro. They have lasted longer than my first marriage did (about 20 years). However, I have some $200 BlueAnt phones that give the Koss some good competition.

Either way, Beats are crappy Monster products. People want them for fashion, not quality.


www.productwiki.com

It's sad that V-Moda abandoned the bass freq model. Wasn't too crazy about the bass, but it gave Sony a run for its money in terms of frequency range.
 
2013-01-17 10:14:25 PM
What I don't understand is how anything bigger than earbuds gets sufficiently powered by a phone. They simply don't have the power to drive anything bigger.

People used to measure stereo amplifier output in watts. I remember getting excited about an amp that put out 100 watts per channel.  A battery powered ipod putting out 30 to 60 milliwatts cannot drive anything substantial.

Turn on a few 30 milliwatt lightbulbs and try to read something.

What they are paying for is high priced earmuffs.image.made-in-china.com
 
kab
2013-01-17 10:37:32 PM

GAT_00: There's far more damage done by the process of mastering by reducing the range of sound than there could ever be in your choice of compression media.


Uh... wha...

good lord.

Slaxl: Anyone who refuses to listen unless it's as great as can be is a fool.


Yes, how dare anyone be discerning.
 
kab
2013-01-17 10:44:14 PM

fusillade762: FlashHarry: it's sad; there's an entire generation that has never heard an uncompressed piece of music.

Kids don't go to live concerts anymore?


You don't think compressors are used live?

This thread is so full of wrong, it's actually kind of awesome.
 
2013-01-17 11:12:11 PM

notmtwain: What I don't understand is how anything bigger than earbuds gets sufficiently powered by a phone. They simply don't have the power to drive anything bigger.

People used to measure stereo amplifier output in watts. I remember getting excited about an amp that put out 100 watts per channel.  A battery powered ipod putting out 30 to 60 milliwatts cannot drive anything substantial.

Turn on a few 30 milliwatt lightbulbs and try to read something.

What they are paying for is high priced earmuffs.[image.made-in-china.com image 754x692]


This post displays a fundamental ignorance of how amplifiers and speakers (or headphones) operate. It's funny though.

Speaker/headphone impedance matters.
Anything more than 1 Watt through my Bozaks shakes the house.
 
2013-01-18 12:35:20 AM

Maestro1701: those overtones, the sounds up to 96k, have an effect on those tones from 20-20k. The sounds you can't hear affect the sounds you can hear.


Explain how.

/difficulty: physics.
 
2013-01-18 01:08:19 AM

puffy999: I like my $13 a pair KSC75s.


I got some 35s for $10 at sears and those things are worth at least four times that.

I use Sony V6. shiats on most cans and affordable at $70 plus a little more for velvet pads. Had them about four years now and they still sound great and feel sturdy.
 
2013-01-18 03:55:33 AM

poot_rootbeer: Maestro1701: those overtones, the sounds up to 96k, have an effect on those tones from 20-20k. The sounds you can't hear affect the sounds you can hear.

Explain how.

/difficulty: physics.


Link

Physics that be there 'nuff fer ya?
 
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