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(AP)   President Obama has announced his new world order where Uncle Sam will now confiscate your gun...wait...what...those are, um, reasonable and Constitutional expansions to regulation authority. You may now cancel your outrage   (hosted.ap.org ) divider line
    More: Interesting, President Obama, Uncle Sam  
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25830 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2013 at 2:14 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-16 02:49:48 PM  

Endive Wombat: How does this address the millions of guns that are on the black market/in the hands of criminals who are not allowed to own a gun?


You're right. House-by-house searches and confiscation are the only reasonably strategy.
 
2013-01-16 02:49:53 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: This text is now purple: From what authority does the federal government have jurisdiction over intrastate sales?

You go ahead and put that in front of the Supreme Court and let me know how it turns out.


Yeah, I know. Maybe in 50 years we'll get the statutory interpretation back.

SCOTUS belated acknowledged Dred Scott actually had standing eventually.
\farking Taney
 
2013-01-16 02:49:55 PM  

greenboy: How is a private sale of a vehicle done? Should be the same method. All guns have a serial number, which means they are trackable the same as a vehicle's VIN.


The person I am selling to gets the title of my car which DOES NOT include my DOB or DL#

The issue that I have with tracking numbers is how it can be exploited.  Hacking is one issue as is FOIA (See the Journal News)...it becomes a witch hunt and shopping list for criminals.  I do not trust the feds to protect this information.  Call me crazy, but the negatives FAR outweigh the positives.
 
2013-01-16 02:49:55 PM  
A requirement for universal background checks could only work if there was also universal registration, which I doubt would be politically feasible at all. Even then, enforcement would be expensive and difficult. A limit on high capacity magazines is probably pointless as well. There's an absolutely massive number of them already in circulation, and as was demonstrated just the other day, 3D printer technology can already produce a functional (though not long-lasting) high capacity mag. It seems likely that in a decade or so, pretty much anyone who wants will be able to print up a high capacity mag in the privacy of their own home. A renewal of the AW ban, or any other ban based on a gun's cosmetics, doesn't address anything concerning the lethality of guns, either. The whole thing is just political theater, and an excuse to spend more tax dollars.
 
2013-01-16 02:50:00 PM  

Uisce Beatha: 16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

This is stupid. "Yes doc, I have a gun in my home. What specific training do you have to advise me on this? None? Then lemme alone."


I know that one seems odd on the face of it, but there's a reason for it. The ACA included a section regarding the 2nd amendment (weird, I agree), related to privacy that restricted the use of any data collected regarding gun ownership. It's worded, in part:
"None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care ct or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any in formation relating to..." and then a list of "lawful ownership" stuff.

The clarification in the order is just saying, "it didn't ban doctors from asking either."
 
2013-01-16 02:50:11 PM  

d_lebowski: USP .45: d_lebowski: USP .45: I said this years ago before there was even a peep about gun control: If Obama could get away with more, he would.

Stop acting like he doesn't want to ban most types of guns.

He doesn't want to ban most types of guns. And you, along with everyone else who believes this, are a f*cking moron.

\gun owner

no you're a slashie fraud. I just heard him say it on farking tv.

Thank you for proving my point.

\moron


He

just

said

it.
 
2013-01-16 02:50:34 PM  

the ha ha guy: You do have to have a permit for a rally.


But any ordinance that requires a permit must be clearly shown to be necessary from a crowd-control perspective, and permits can't be denied or surcharged based on who's rallying or why.

You do have to abide by certain restrictions when gathering for a protest (free speech zones).

Currently the subject of a number of lawsuits, several of which have been settled with government concessions.

You do need to register a newly formed church with the government.

In China, yes. In the United States, no. You have to file paperwork if you want tax concessions on the basis of being a church, but any requirement to "register" churches would get smacked down faster than a violent-video-game ban.

You do have to register with the state to perform a marriage.

Depends on the state, and the handful I'm familiar with don't require any such registration. They simply list classes of people who are qualified to "solemnize" a marriage, and in addition to broadly-defined ministers of religion, a Quaker assembly usually qualifies.
 
2013-01-16 02:50:37 PM  
As a gun owner I thought I'd spend most of the afternoon being somewhat pissed off over this whole thing. However I'm glad to see the reaction is focused more about the flow of weapons and ensuring they don't end up in the hands of the mentally ill.

My hope is that the AWB aspect of it is the compromise part that is building in to be given away and placate House Republicans so they support the background checks and some of the loophole closing. That being said of course the only thing that really would have stopped Aurora, Sandy Hook, and Taft was better mental health services. All the guns were purchased legally and in each case the shooter had at least one weapon that would be outlawed by the AWB (handgun or shotgun). So getting rid of the scary AR-15s isn't really going to do anything meaningful.
 
2013-01-16 02:50:45 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Endive Wombat: Grand_Moff_Joseph: That's pretty much the point.  Yeah, it'll be a little more annoying for the 95% of folks like you who play it straight, but it standardizes the entire system, and (hopefully) makes a dent in keeping wholly unqualified people away from the guns.  The upshot, like you said, is that it's not a ban.  It's a bit more headache for a lot more safety, imo.

How does this address the millions of guns that are on the black market/in the hands of criminals who are not allowed to own a gun?

The item you referenced won't do much good in the black market area.  That's where (IMO) much stronger action by federal agencies to track and acquire black market weapons needs to come in.  And work closely with state agencies to help setup stings and other operations on local levels to catch the small fry guys first.  Just like the mob busts, if you catch the small guys, they'll likely flip on the next bigger fish to save their own hides.


Just so we're clear here, you expect this action to come from the same government that gave actual assault weapons (read fully automatic) to Mexican drug lords who then brought them into the US.  is that correct?
 
2013-01-16 02:51:00 PM  
Cancel outrage? My Paultard buddy is on the verge of an aneurysm.

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-16 02:51:08 PM  
AWB and magazine restriction won't pass. Now I can laugh at the retarded panic buyers that bought shiatty $2000 Bushmasters and the cretins on Fark that were saying "kiss your guns goodbye" or some similar shiat.

And in a few months I can buy a firearm at a reasonable farking price
 
2013-01-16 02:51:10 PM  

Weaver95: and these things Obama is proposing have made Limbaugh very angry.


Limbaugh's job is to be very angry at everything Obama does. it's what he gets paid for.

fark that pustule.
 
2013-01-16 02:51:20 PM  
i.imgur.com

Lest we forget.
 
2013-01-16 02:51:51 PM  

Noam Chimpsky: Is it Constitutional to infringe on citizens' right to keep and bear arms? Even if there wasn't a 2nd Amendment, it wouldn't be legal for the feds to regulate guns because it would be a matter for the states, as per the 10th Amendment.


Incorrect. The Commerce Clause gives them the ability to regulate them. Unless, all guns are verified as manufactured and used in a single state per factory or whatever. But if you purchased a locally-made firearm, they could prevent you from transporting it to another state if you moved.
 
2013-01-16 02:52:03 PM  

Zerochance: Cancel outrage? My Paultard buddy is on the verge of an aneurysm.

[img.photobucket.com image 433x616]


Nobody here cares about your facebook friend. Go back to reddit.
 
2013-01-16 02:52:17 PM  

moanerific: As a very pro-gun guy, I see no problem with these ideas. I do think that there needs to be more detail as far as reporting mental conditions to the authorities. Seems like it would make people less likely to come forward with their issues if they think they are going to get blacklisted.


Well, there already was a stigma with being mentally ill in this country. So that doesn't really make things worse or better. Our healthcare system sucks as we all know, and our mental healthcare system sucks even more than the general healthcare system.
 
2013-01-16 02:52:23 PM  

USP .45: Insatiable Jesus: d_lebowski: USP .45: I said this years ago before there was even a peep about gun control: If Obama could get away with more, he would.

Stop acting like he doesn't want to ban most types of guns.

He doesn't want to ban most types of guns. And you, along with everyone else who believes this, are a f*cking moron.

\gun owner


Don't bother, he chose the model number of a handgun as his screenname. That means he is a real, live American Internet Badass.

Ironically H&K are elitist douches that sell overpriced hardware and don't give a rat's ass about civilian firearms ownership, since they cater mostly to LE and military. Anyone looking to buy in VA?



LMFAO. H&K didn't say what you wanted them to say and only now is their stuff overpriced? News flash: H&K was overpriced when you bought whatever you're selling. I remember when posers went from Sig to H&K.
 
2013-01-16 02:52:35 PM  
So encroaching upon your privacy and infringing upon your rights is "reasonable and Constitutional"?

Subby has been skull farked a little too hard.
 
2013-01-16 02:52:39 PM  

Galileo's Daughter: Sybarite: What? Cancel my outrage? Did you say "cancel my outrage"? No outrage is cancelled until I decide it is! Was outrage cancelled when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Germans?


Nevermind, he's on a roll
 
2013-01-16 02:52:42 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: What about from the white drug dealing gang members?


They commit gun violence at a lower rate than black and Hispanic drug-dealing gang members.

But, sure, go ahead and

HotWingConspiracy: We have a few thousand laws on the books that should sate your racism.


If it's racism, then gun crime statistics are racist.
 
2013-01-16 02:52:59 PM  

Fail in Human Form: Many of those will end up being challenged in court and much of what he "requested" congress to fund is going to be answered by a polite " fark you".


Exactly. Which demonstrates that the NRA, their members and the politicians that they own have been lying their asses off ever since LaPierre's Sandy Hook press conference.
 
2013-01-16 02:53:02 PM  

CADMonkey79: Why would my doctor ask me if I had guns in the house?


Because you just came in his office for a checkup, and muttered out of the side of your mouth that you WISH THIS VOICES WOULD STOP TELLING YOU TO ALL THE BODYSNATCHERS IN YOUR LOCAL MALL!!

I imagine primary health care professionals might be well suited to identify some of the up-and-coming paranoid mass murderers among us. So, lets not stop doctors from at least asking the question.
 
2013-01-16 02:53:03 PM  

Diogenes: Backdoor maneuver to eliminate the 2nd Amendment!


You make jokes, but while I was reading the article, Obama snuck into my parent's basement fortified compound, and took all my guns...
 
2013-01-16 02:53:28 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: You go ahead and put that in front of the Supreme Court and let me know how it turns out.


Still, it's a valid question. It's one of those powers that just sort of appeared out of nowhere, or which is a wildly absurd extension of the Commerce Clause. Now, it's not merely a matter of regulating commerce that actually exists. It's the ability to regulate activity that might make it so you don't have to engage in commerce. By growing my own tomatoes, for example, I'm not buying them on the open market. That causes potential commerce not to happen, which means that the Federal government, apparently, can forbid me to grow tomatoes. Upheld or not, that's just plain stupid.
 
2013-01-16 02:53:29 PM  

give me doughnuts: Guess what? Arson is already illegal. Come to think of it, so is taking any kind of gun onto school property. So is shooting people with it. So is murdering your mother so she won't stop you from taking a bunch of guns to a school.

Can you think of any scenario that will keep a determined psychopath from committing a mass murder?
When something this horrible happens, we all jump up and down and yell, "Something needs to be done!" And we're all correct: something does need to be done.
But what needs to be done has to address the real problem, not just be a "Look what we did!" change that accomplishes nothing.



two things may have prevented sandy hook;
1. gun safe. his mom should have locked them up.
2. mental health evaluation. i believe his mom was in the process of having him committed?

i said "may have".
 
2013-01-16 02:53:44 PM  

susansto-helit: Callous: Grand_Moff_Joseph: bradknaus:  Fair point.  So, would you object to the extra steps I outlined above?  IMO, it would ensure that the rest of the folks who have ARs are handling them responsibly, as you seem to be.

No it wouldn't.  It would insure they had been through training to properly handle them but it doesn't mean they will abide by it.  And it still won't stop someone who snaps and shoots up a theater   And it won't stop someone who kills the lawful owner, steals her guns, and shoots up a school.

I have all my guns and ammo in a safe that weighs about 500lbs.  It's bolted to the floor joists and the studs in the wall.  Still with a crowbar mine would take less than 15 minutes to open, likely less than 10.  There are three crowbars, various grinders and saws in my basement capable of prying or cutting that safe open in a few minutes.  You can take steps to mitigate risk but you cannot ensure anything.

So we should do nothing. Got it.


Well, we should do something once the wealthy without morals are no longer able to make a substantial profit from human lives. But certainly not before then.

/Barbie guns (a.k.a. assault rifles) make up 20% of profits for gun manufacturers
//The NRA is fighting for gun manufacturers, not firearm rights
///Much in the same way one fights for drug cartel
 
2013-01-16 02:54:14 PM  

Bf+: How dare he force Americans to get background checks for stockpiling armor piercing bullets!
How will we shoot the government?
[images.sodahead.com image 350x273]


Do you know what armour piercing bullets are?  Deer hunting bullets.  Pretty much any round that is fired from a center-fire rifle as a matter of fact.

/still okay with background checks for any weapons, but hey, lets throw some more hysteria into the mix.
 
2013-01-16 02:54:23 PM  

orbister: Guys, it's time just to repeal the second amendment. Go on, just get it over with.


static.someecards.com
 
2013-01-16 02:54:54 PM  

Vodka Zombie: Weaver95: oh you should hear Limbaugh today.  He's already said that President Obama's kids shouldn't have guards, and I swear to f*cking god, I thought he was going to actually CRY at one point...the left is mocking the NRA you see.  and these things Obama is proposing have made Limbaugh very angry.

If anyone doesn't need armed guards, it's Limbaugh.

Seriously, Florida.  You have "stand-your-ground," and Limbaugh's a strung out, drug-addicted maniac with a long history of advocating violence against innocent people.

Why is that fat bastard still waddling around?!?


Because his Rascal is back-ordered, hasn't been delivered yet.
 
2013-01-16 02:55:09 PM  

AFKobel: CADMonkey79: Why would my doctor ask me if I had guns in the house?

Because you just came in his office for a checkup, and muttered out of the side of your mouth that you WISH THIS VOICES WOULD STOP TELLING YOU TO ALL THE BODYSNATCHERS IN YOUR LOCAL MALL!!

I imagine primary health care professionals might be well suited to identify some of the up-and-coming paranoid mass murderers among us. So, lets not stop doctors from at least asking the question.


I could see the value in that. But if, for instance, I visited the doctor about say a leg injury and the good Doc asks me about whether or not I have firearms, I would just decline to answer.
 
2013-01-16 02:55:34 PM  

cleek: Limbaugh's job is to be very angry at everything Obama does. it's what he gets paid for.

fark that pustule.


He's a lot more tolerable once you realize he's an actor in a role, an entertainer. Still can't stand him, though.
 
2013-01-16 02:56:00 PM  

CheekyMonkey: Vodka Zombie: Weaver95: oh you should hear Limbaugh today.  He's already said that President Obama's kids shouldn't have guards, and I swear to f*cking god, I thought he was going to actually CRY at one point...the left is mocking the NRA you see.  and these things Obama is proposing have made Limbaugh very angry.

If anyone doesn't need armed guards, it's Limbaugh.

Seriously, Florida.  You have "stand-your-ground," and Limbaugh's a strung out, drug-addicted maniac with a long history of advocating violence against innocent people.

Why is that fat bastard still waddling around?!?

Because his Rascal is back-ordered, hasn't been delivered yet.


Maybe they should *sunglasses* put a rush on it.
 
2013-01-16 02:56:21 PM  

themindiswatching: Anything less than being able to buy an RPG from the gas station on the corner without having to show ID is unconstitutional to them.


Hey, screw you, you gun-grabbing libtard!

I should be able to order a surface to air missile from Amazon and use Prime to get it over night.

Anything less means fartbongo is a dictator and it's time to water the tree of liberty.
 
2013-01-16 02:56:26 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Actually, I've learned recently of how many road signs in the US are actually marked on the back with secret signals designed to communicate high-value strike targets and directions to an invading UN army, and on a recent trip into town noticed no less than FOUR new road signs along my regular route. I don't know if all of them had secret signals on the back, because it did not occur to me then to stop and check, but that sudden proliferation along with his new and unprecedented move against the Constitution makes me wonder if perhaps we are approaching some tipping point. I'm going to study it out a little more and see what else I can find; I earnestly suggest that everyone else does likewise.


You must live in a fancy neighborhood. The road signs by me are just marked with bullet holes.

\thanks, hillbillies
 
2013-01-16 02:56:43 PM  

Mike_1962: What this does is make a beginning toward dealing with the problem.


But remember if it isn't perfect we shouldn't be doing it!

/ Just don't point out that having stand your ground laws does not stop all murder or anything like that. This logic only applies to gun control advocates, not the NRA and its sheep.
 
2013-01-16 02:57:02 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Fail in Human Form: Many of those will end up being challenged in court and much of what he "requested" congress to fund is going to be answered by a polite " fark you".

Exactly. Which demonstrates that the NRA, their members and the politicians that they own have been lying their asses off ever since LaPierre's Sandy Hook press conference.


It'll just get tied up with other bills and forgotten about when the debt ceiling disaster gets going. Nothing to do with the NRA.
 
Bf+
2013-01-16 02:57:06 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Galileo's Daughter: Sybarite: What? Cancel my outrage? Did you say "cancel my outrage"? No outrage is cancelled until I decide it is! Was outrage cancelled when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Germans?

NevermindForget it, he's on a roll rolling.

/FI
 
2013-01-16 02:57:10 PM  

colon_pow: two things may have prevented sandy hook;
1. gun safe. his mom should have locked them up.
2. mental health evaluation. i believe his mom was in the process of having him committed?

i said "may have".


The kid likely knew how to get into the safe, since while they were his mother's guns she was training him to use them. Even if she didn't teach him, he might have observed the combo or knew where the key was hidden. In reality the moment mom wanted to commit him (if not earlier) she should have given the guns to a friend to hold onto or otherwise gotten them out of the house.

/around here the local cops offered to lock up the guns of anyone facing such a problem, just bring them down to the station and into the weapons locker they go until the unstable adult is gone
//of course then you don't have them around for self defense, but by the same toke they're also not there for the unstable adult to use against you
 
2013-01-16 02:57:14 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: No, but in all seriousness, can you point to a case where that did happen? (not being snarky, just asking)


Nazi Germany (Hitler was quite proud of it), Britain, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand, without having to look anything up. I'm aware that in some cases the government has graciously deigned to permit a few people whom it considers to have a good reason to keep one or two firearms locked and unusable (DC-pre-Heller-style), but most of the firearms were seized from most of the people, most especially handguns, which are the most practical for everyday personal self-defense.


cryinoutloud: Almost every single registered gun in this country?


Fair enough. I should have specified "seized or required disposition of". How are those 15-round magazines working out for you in California and New York?
 
2013-01-16 02:57:24 PM  
So how do these new rules stop someone from using a gun to kill someone without a gun.
 
2013-01-16 02:57:28 PM  

Phinn: HotWingConspiracy: What about from the white drug dealing gang members?

They commit gun violence at a lower rate than black and Hispanic drug-dealing gang members.


So what they have in common is guns. Again, I'm glad to have you on board to begin restricting hand guns.


HotWingConspiracy: We have a few thousand laws on the books that should sate your racism.

If it's racism, then gun crime statistics are racist.


No, honey, they're just number. You're a racist though.
 
2013-01-16 02:57:34 PM  

Frank N Stein: the cretins on Fark that were saying "kiss your guns goodbye" or some similar shiat.


No one was saying that you dumb fark Republican.

How do you have a rational debate with such morons.
 
2013-01-16 02:57:47 PM  

bradkanus: This was actually a great day for gun owners.  A really great day.


As a gun owner I agree.

The only "bad things" in there are re-activating the AWB and magazine size limits. And Obama probably knows he needs to put a few things in there for the NRA to "win" on. Those might come back out.

It could have been MUCH worse.
 
2013-01-16 02:57:53 PM  

Chummer45: I agree with this - but what's silly about the AWB?


The ban banned things that had NOTHING to do with gun violence and gun safety.  High capacity mags were banned - do you know what about them was banned?  During the ban it was illegal to manufacture, but people could still buy and sell.  All they did was ramp up production before the ban went into effect.  This accomplished nothing.  It banned barrel shrouds - these are the scary looking things around a barrel that prevent you from burning yourself.   It banned bayonet mounts - because so many shootings in the US involve a gun and a bayonet right?

The ban did nothing to address the root causes of crime, it was simply a feel good law.  It was a total failure, many liberals will agree with this.
 
2013-01-16 02:57:54 PM  
If only there was this much of an uproar when the federal government talks about limiting a few of the other amendments in the Bill of Rights.
 
2013-01-16 02:57:58 PM  

SpectroBoy: themindiswatching: Anything less than being able to buy an RPG from the gas station on the corner without having to show ID is unconstitutional to them.

Hey, screw you, you gun-grabbing libtard!

I should be able to order a surface to air missile from Amazon and use Prime to get it over night.

Anything less means fartbongo is a dictator and it's time to water the tree of liberty.


Oh, you know, we can just not ban guns that look scary on the basis that they look scary. But don't let me stop your strawman
 
2013-01-16 02:57:58 PM  
says who, subby? obama?

fark him. Worst president in history. I can't believe you farktards voted for him.
 
2013-01-16 02:58:12 PM  

queezyweezel: Bf+: How dare he force Americans to get background checks for stockpiling armor piercing bullets!
How will we shoot the government?
[images.sodahead.com image 350x273]

Do you know what armour piercing bullets are?  Deer hunting bullets.  Pretty much any round that is fired from a center-fire rifle as a matter of fact.

/still okay with background checks for any weapons, but hey, lets throw some more hysteria into the mix.


More likely that hes referring to steel cored ammo designed to defeat body armor.
 
2013-01-16 02:58:16 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle:
So, basically, you have no idea what duty to report is nor are you aware that care providers are already obligated by law under numerous circumstances to report certain types of injuries to law enforcement.


Duty to report was covered under another executive order, that you'll notice I didn't object to. My wife is a LPC, I'm very familiar with duty to report and don't object to it. Duty to report also isn't restricted by HIPAA, so this EO clearly isn't covering it since you don't need to modify HIPAA to keep it working.


Vegan Meat Popsicle: They can already do that. They can seize virtually any of your private property if they have reasonable suspicion to believe a crime has occurred. A gun is not now and has never been exempt from that fact, all this does is change the rules so that law enforcement is allowed to check that you're actually allowed to own it before they give it back after the investigation.


A police officer can seize my firearm for the duration of a detention for officer safety concerns bust must return it upon my release. They may not keep it upon the condition that I prove I am lawfully allowed to own it. Not even close.

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Yea, there's going to be a criminal investigation because you got a jaywalking ticket you farking moron. I'll bet that happens all the time.


Yeah... because police would never abuse their authority... never... ever... Right Fark?

Vegan Meat Popsicle:
That's because you choose to listen to what the NRA says in its little dishonest soundbites instead of sticking with the words that, you know, actually came out of the president's mouth:

I am skeptical that the only answer is putting more guns in schools

But, no, I'd hate to suggest you're completely full of shiat and just flailing aimlessly at a world that exists solely in your own imagination just because everything in your post proves that's true.


So wait... you're telling me that Fark hasn't been flailing around about how silly the NRA was for suggesting police in schools? Really? Okay then...
 
2013-01-16 02:58:42 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Actually, I've learned recently of how many road signs in the US are actually marked on the back with secret signals designed to communicate high-value strike targets and directions to an invading UN army, and on a recent trip into town noticed no less than FOUR new road signs along my regular route. I don't know if all of them had secret signals on the back, because it did not occur to me then to stop and check, but that sudden proliferation along with his new and unprecedented move against the Constitution makes me wonder if perhaps we are approaching some tipping point. I'm going to study it out a little more and see what else I can find; I earnestly suggest that everyone else does likewise.


Don't think they just use spraypaint, man. You have to use UV lights to see it. Keep up the good fight.
 
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