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(IGM Forum Chicago)   Survey of economists finds broad agreement that politicians can't be trusted with the debt ceiling   (igmchicago.org) divider line 30
    More: Obvious, Economic Experts Panel  
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518 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jan 2013 at 1:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-16 01:43:52 PM
well, not anymore at least.
 
2013-01-16 01:44:11 PM
I can't be trusted around girls with no underpants, so?
 
2013-01-16 01:44:12 PM
So let's get rid of it.
 
2013-01-16 01:47:39 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-16 01:48:09 PM
So they won't pay the bill for things they voted for, and this is somehow supposed to make other people look bad? Do they really think the public is that stupid?
*checks to make sure this is still the USA*
Yep guess they are.
 
2013-01-16 01:48:39 PM
www.econ.yale.edu

I'd supply her demand.
 
2013-01-16 01:49:30 PM
How about not running up the debt in the first place?
 
2013-01-16 01:49:43 PM
Came for someone bringing up "liberal academics". Going to paste this on my facebook wall and see if it gets mentioned more quickly there or here.
 
2013-01-16 01:51:48 PM

JohnAnnArbor: How about not running up the debt in the first place?


Sounds good. Now, what about the reality of the present? Raise the ceiling or default and possibly crash the world economy out of spite?
 
2013-01-16 01:54:14 PM
Shows what they know since we're soon going to be solving everything with our trillion dollar platinum coin.
 
2013-01-16 01:56:01 PM

JohnAnnArbor: How about not running up the debt in the first place?


I'm fine with it, but let's see how many Americans are actually willing to pay the money to keep all the services this country relies and depends on as well as service the debt?
 
2013-01-16 01:56:06 PM
Anyone know how I can do this with my credit card???

www.creditwritedowns.com
 
2013-01-16 01:56:36 PM

JohnAnnArbor: How about not running up the debt in the first place?


Why won't Presifart 0blamea use his time machine for good, instead of just for trolling?
 
2013-01-16 01:56:54 PM

odinsposse: So let's get rid of it.


It's been said many times - if it is raised every time it is reached, it is NOT a "ceiling" or "limit". Let's just get rid of it finally. Anymore, it's only good for political posturing anyway.
 
2013-01-16 01:59:14 PM

Brick-House: Anyone know how I can do this with my credit card???

[www.creditwritedowns.com image 500x726]


Declare war on a couple of your neighbors at the same time you demand a paycut from your boss?
 
2013-01-16 01:59:49 PM

Brick-House: Anyone know how I can do this with my credit card???

[www.creditwritedowns.com image 500x726]


Become a sovereign nation with its own currency that also serves as the world's reserve currency.

Funny, it's almost like comparing personal finances with the world's largest economy is pretty farking stupid. Oh wait, no... it's EXACTLY like that.
 
2013-01-16 02:03:41 PM

GanjSmokr: odinsposse: So let's get rid of it.

It's been said many times - if it is raised every time it is reached, it is NOT a "ceiling" or "limit". Let's just get rid of it finally. Anymore, it's only good for political posturing anyway.


There should be some kind of realistic assessment, though. As some point, we're going to be paying so much interest, we're going to be in a lot of trouble and we need to stop. I get that having a permanent cap cripples us in an emergency and/or recession, but we do need some form of artificial restraint as we apparently can't do it ourselves.
 
2013-01-16 02:14:15 PM
So wait, economists are just now getting the message that our politicians can't be trusted? Really? I mean the nation as a whole is stupid, I can get why as a nation we still somehow trust our politicians with anything outside of wiping their own ass and voting raises for themselves, but I figured economists at least knew better. It's not as if they haven't watched the nation spiral down the shiatter financially for years now.
 
2013-01-16 02:15:39 PM
I have several friends who have very good reputations as economists. I would never trust any of them with the debt ceiling either.
 
2013-01-16 02:16:50 PM

palelizard: GanjSmokr: odinsposse: So let's get rid of it.

It's been said many times - if it is raised every time it is reached, it is NOT a "ceiling" or "limit". Let's just get rid of it finally. Anymore, it's only good for political posturing anyway.

There should be some kind of realistic assessment, though. As some point, we're going to be paying so much interest, we're going to be in a lot of trouble and we need to stop. I get that having a permanent cap cripples us in an emergency and/or recession, but we do need some form of artificial restraint as we apparently can't do it ourselves.


Perhaps if congress didn't force the military to buy stuff they don't need or want it might help the problem
 
2013-01-16 02:19:10 PM
I, for the life of me, can't figure out why it is there in the first place. Probably as some compromise once upon a time, but it gets raised every time we've gotten close to it (up until the president got near,) so it seems to serve no practical purpose.
 
2013-01-16 02:25:01 PM

palelizard: GanjSmokr: odinsposse: So let's get rid of it.

It's been said many times - if it is raised every time it is reached, it is NOT a "ceiling" or "limit". Let's just get rid of it finally. Anymore, it's only good for political posturing anyway.

There should be some kind of realistic assessment, though. As some point, we're going to be paying so much interest, we're going to be in a lot of trouble and we need to stop. I get that having a permanent cap cripples us in an emergency and/or recession, but we do need some form of artificial restraint as we apparently can't do it ourselves.


That point has already arrived long ago IMHO.
 
2013-01-16 02:28:39 PM

Warlordtrooper: Perhaps if congress didn't force the military to buy stuff they don't need or want it might help the problem


Sure, there's plenty of stuff we can cut. The military spending is definitely out of control. We also need to shift SS and Medicare benefits qualifications to older folks--68-70 instead of 65. We need to start looking at the long term costs and infrastructure needed to shift to a single payer system (which we would fold Medicaid and -care into), and very seriously looking at increasing revenue by raising taxes, not only on income (especially capital gains), but on various properties as well.

In the meantime, we need to raise the limit and then we start taking steps to make sure we don't need to raise it again, while still leaving enough room to use credit to get out of a real crisis.
 
2013-01-16 02:30:17 PM

GanjSmokr: That point has already arrived long ago IMHO.


That's definitely a possibility, though I don't think we've quite hit critical mass.
 
2013-01-16 02:39:25 PM

palelizard: .. We also need to shift SS and Medicare benefits qualifications to older folks--68-70..


Bull. shiat. Listen, I'm sure you aren't old enough to know this, but in the 80's the retirement age was raised, AND we were all given the benefit of getting to pay taxes on our SS benefits. Because, check this out, the Baby Boom was noticed before 2012, and SS needed to be adjusted for it. By, of course, screwing the people who needed the benefits the most.

Fix it by means testing, raising the contribution cap, etc. But it's time for the 98% to stop coughing up their benefits which were promised to them by the laws of the USA, just so the 2% keep their taxes nice and low.
 
2013-01-16 02:40:46 PM

LoneWolf343: I, for the life of me, can't figure out why it is there in the first place. Probably as some compromise once upon a time, but it gets raised every time we've gotten close to it (up until the president got near,) so it seems to serve no practical purpose.


Used to be that whenever Congress wanted to do deficit spending, they authorized the Treasury to issue bonds for the cost of the program. World War One rolled around, there was a concern we might have delays in funding if we waited until expenditures were approved to start selling the bonds, so Congress went ahead and told the Treasury to sell a large amount of bonds so the money was already available as soon as we needed it. World War One ended, but since we've just used the "tell the Treasury to go ahead and borrow, we'll apply it to programs later" method.

Why yes, it is stupid.
 
2013-01-16 05:25:59 PM
Yeah, with the debt ceiling and and gun control stuff going on, it's difficult to play my usual role of sensible, moderate foil to the neo-communist majority of fark these days.

The farklibs are right about the debt ceiling and gun control, and the GOP is wrong.
 
2013-01-16 05:58:53 PM
Yeah, get rid of it. In fact, why bother keeping track of debt at all? Just don't write it down. Don't worry about deficits and debt. That's what people do in their households. It's not what the world's largest government in history should be doing.
 
2013-01-16 08:56:32 PM

palelizard: GanjSmokr: odinsposse: So let's get rid of it.

It's been said many times - if it is raised every time it is reached, it is NOT a "ceiling" or "limit". Let's just get rid of it finally. Anymore, it's only good for political posturing anyway.

There should be some kind of realistic assessment, though. As some point, we're going to be paying so much interest, we're going to be in a lot of trouble and we need to stop. I get that having a permanent cap cripples us in an emergency and/or recession, but we do need some form of artificial restraint as we apparently can't do it ourselves.


The debt ceiling isn't a restraint. It's a law passed by Congress, just like the tax code and the budget. If Congress wants the debt to shrink, they can take it up with the people who set tax rates and appropriate expenditures - themselves.

Likewise, there's no good way for Congress to tie future Congresses' hands.
 
2013-01-17 10:17:56 AM

ghare: palelizard: .. We also need to shift SS and Medicare benefits qualifications to older folks--68-70..

Bull. shiat. Listen, I'm sure you aren't old enough to know this, but in the 80's the retirement age was raised, AND we were all given the benefit of getting to pay taxes on our SS benefits. Because, check this out, the Baby Boom was noticed before 2012, and SS needed to be adjusted for it. By, of course, screwing the people who needed the benefits the most.

Fix it by means testing, raising the contribution cap, etc. But it's time for the 98% to stop coughing up their benefits which were promised to them by the laws of the USA, just so the 2% keep their taxes nice and low.


SS has zero to do with the debt. Why the hell does it keep getting brought up?
 
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