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(Yahoo)   They cited Admiralty Law? The Sovereign Citizens must be wetting themselves   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 67
    More: Florida, U.S. Supreme Court, maritime laws, U.S., Breyers, Sonia Sotomayor, marinas, Fane Lozman  
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15423 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2013 at 10:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-16 10:14:23 AM  
Depends.
 
2013-01-16 10:16:02 AM  
Whatever floats your boat.
I'm hoping he sues them for a lot and wins.
They (the city) sound like a bunch of assholes.
 
2013-01-16 10:21:41 AM  
In a 7-2 decision, the court ruled that a gray, two-story home that its owner said was permanently moored to a Riviera Beach, Florida, marina was not a vessel, depriving the city of power under U.S. maritime law to seize and destroy it.

Since it was a U.S. maritime law the city was trying to enforce, I don't think this would be classified as a sovereignty issue.
 
2013-01-16 10:23:55 AM  
I'm confused though, it says it was seized over dockage fees. While it might not be a boat, if you are tied to the dock you have to pay. If he owed the fees, he owed the fees.

/although I guess if they classified it as a vessel perhaps it was easier to seize than if it was considered a residence
 
2013-01-16 10:24:32 AM  
Maybe they should try a different tack.
 
2013-01-16 10:27:53 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: In a 7-2 decision, the court ruled that a gray, two-story home that its owner said was permanently moored to a Riviera Beach, Florida, marina was not a vessel, depriving the city of power under U.S. maritime law to seize and destroy it.

Since it was a U.S. maritime law the city was trying to enforce, I don't think this would be classified as a sovereignty issue.


well, the sovereign citizens don't know much about sovereignty or admiralty, but somehow they think that using both words in the right combination entitles them to a legal privilege that means no laws and no taxes.

I thought this was more an issue of the complexities that we had to solve back in the day when someone wondered whether a mobile home was a movable or an immovable (real property or personal property). here, though the stakes are very different, they seemed to go down a similar classification analysis of whether this was a vessel or not.

/ but, vessels are not the only things governed by admiralty law. maybe i'll read this opinion. there's probably a lot that the reporter didn't mention. because, it sounds like this house in the middle of a marina or something, and, that's really knocking on the door of watery commerce.
 
2013-01-16 10:29:02 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: Maybe they should try a different tack.


your jib, it has a nice cut.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-16 10:32:31 AM  
Did the city screw itself by proceeding under the wrong law? If the alleged vessel is merely a floating house the city should be able to place a lien for city services and proceed under state law rather than federal law.
 
2013-01-16 10:36:56 AM  
Pamela Ryan, the city attorney for Riviera Beach, said in a statement she was disappointed with the ruling but accepts it, and that the city will revise its marina policies.

Somewhere, a tiny violin is playing for this poor, widdle government seat-warmer trying to bully a citizen.

They need a good slapping down one in a while to remind them they are supposed to be working for us.
 
2013-01-16 10:41:12 AM  
Sovereign Citizens are always wet, subby; they live their whole sad lives slightly... moist.
 
2013-01-16 10:41:23 AM  
He said he now lives in North Bay Village, a suburb of Miami, and owns a financial software display company.

Anyone care to enlighten me on this one?
 
2013-01-16 10:41:32 AM  
I do not wish to create joinder with you.
 
2013-01-16 10:46:21 AM  
I think this ruling leaves the door open for an enterprising few to obtain a Letter of Marque and harass trade between this house and its allies.

Yar! Which of ye stout men will sign up for plunderrr?
 
2013-01-16 10:47:18 AM  

pute kisses like a man: I thought this was more an issue of the complexities that we had to solve back in the day when someone wondered whether a mobile home was a movable or an immovable (real property or personal property)


Tornados say movable.
 
2013-01-16 10:50:19 AM  
US SC ustice Stephen Breyer - "Not every floating structure is a 'vessel'," Breyer wrote for the majority. "To state the obvious, a wooden washtub, a plastic dishpan, a swimming platform on pontoons, a large fishing net, a door taken off its hinges, or Pinocchio (when inside the whale) are not 'vessels'."

well if Pinocchio is involved than it should be obvious if some one is lying
 
2013-01-16 10:52:17 AM  

ZAZ: Did the city screw itself by proceeding under the wrong law? If the alleged vessel is merely a floating house the city should be able to place a lien for city services and proceed under state law rather than federal law.


I think you are right. There could be, and likely are, a number of state and local laws that this houseboat would or could be subject to. But for whatever reason, the city sued under an admiralty law which only applied to "vessels", and on this point they eventually lost.
 
2013-01-16 10:53:28 AM  

lecgbe: US SC ustice Stephen Breyer - "Not every floating structure is a 'vessel'," Breyer wrote for the majority. "To state the obvious, a wooden washtub, a plastic dishpan, a swimming platform on pontoons, a large fishing net, a door taken off its hinges, or Pinocchio (when inside the whale) are not 'vessels'."

well if Pinocchio is involved than it should be obvious if some one is lying


I kind of wish he would have said something about witches floating.
 
2013-01-16 10:54:47 AM  
Okay Florida, now get unpowered houseboats declared mobile homes and we can have the tornadoes in the marinas for all the grins my bemusement can handle.
 
2013-01-16 10:56:03 AM  
What a Florida home invasion may look like.

static.guim.co.uk
 
2013-01-16 10:56:54 AM  
I can get a home loan for a house boat if I want. Seems like the intended use of a hosue boat is occupancy, not travel or transportation.
 
2013-01-16 11:01:31 AM  

ha-ha-guy: I'm confused though, it says it was seized over dockage fees. While it might not be a boat, if you are tied to the dock you have to pay. If he owed the fees, he owed the fees.

/although I guess if they classified it as a vessel perhaps it was easier to seize than if it was considered a residence


Under admiralty law you can get a lien against a vessel for unpaid dockage fees. If it's not paid in time the vessel can then be seized and auctioned off to satisfy the lien. This is what the city did here. They got the lien, seized and auctioned the "vessel," and then bought it at their own auction. Once they had bought it the city demolished it. Basically the city went to admiralty law to get rid of this guy once their earlier eviction efforts had failed.
 
2013-01-16 11:01:48 AM  

ha-ha-guy: /although I guess if they classified it as a vessel perhaps it was easier to seize than if it was considered a residence


That's exactly what they did.

I was listening to this story on NPR and this article left out a few details. First, the reason they wanted him to move his house to begin with was to clear the way for a luxury condominium development. It didn't way whether the city planners involved stood to make any money from the venture, of course.

Then, when all this was over, they offered him $300 in compensation--for the destruction of his house and all of his legal fees.

I'm hoping the guy sues the city board and somehow finds a way to make their members personally liable for the damages.
 
2013-01-16 11:01:56 AM  
So, did he point out the gold fringe around flag in the Tax office or something?
 
2013-01-16 11:05:50 AM  

stealthd: Sovereign Citizens are always wet, subby; they live their whole sad lives slightly... moist.


www.justsaypictures.com
 
2013-01-16 11:06:40 AM  
From a better report (NPR yesterday), this was pretty much local government getting pissed off at the guy for torpedoing some luxury redevelopment project. The project proposal was struck down (I'm sure the local gov officials had no financial interest at all), then they suddenly declared he owed some fees. He said fark you, the city seized the house, bought it themselves, then immediately smashed it (with his stuff still inside). Certainly not retaliatory at all.

The worst part is, as usual, nothing will happen to the local officials that screwed this up and the tax payers will pay for everything.


Better NPR story
 
2013-01-16 11:07:07 AM  
That "home" looks like a doublewide on pontoons. Please Florida, do everyone a favor and just sink that eyesore.
 
2013-01-16 11:07:31 AM  

blatz514: He said he now lives in North Bay Village, a suburb of Miami, and owns a financial software display company.

Anyone care to enlighten me on this one?


He makes covers for MS Office boxes? I dunno.
 
2013-01-16 11:13:13 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: That "home" looks like a doublewide on pontoons. Please Florida, do everyone a favor and just sink that eyesore.


They did. Now that he won on the vessel issue he's planning to sue the city about that as well.
 
2013-01-16 11:14:08 AM  
CSB:

Years ago, I lived on Admiralty Way.  All too often, somebody would fark up the name over the phone....like if a credit card company was trying to confirm my address:

"Admirality Way"

*Face Palm*
 
2013-01-16 11:17:11 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: That "home" looks like a doublewide on pontoons. Please Florida, do everyone a favor and just sink that eyesore.


Um, it was broken up, the remains burned, and then the ashes were dumped at sea over the Marianas trench.

Good enough for you?
 
2013-01-16 11:20:26 AM  

SN1987a goes boom: blatz514: He said he now lives in North Bay Village, a suburb of Miami, and owns a financial software display company.

Anyone care to enlighten me on this one?

He makes covers for MS Office boxes? I dunno.


No, no. He makes the acrylic display cases that stores put the shiny new MS Office boxes in!
 
2013-01-16 11:25:02 AM  
The most important part of TFA???
"It is also a victory for the casino industry, which in court papers argued that more than 60 riverboat casinos should not be subject to U.S. maritime laws designed to protect seamen, on top of state laws to license and regulate the gaming business."
The truth, it does come out if you wait long enough.
...now, back to friggin' with the riggin'
 
2013-01-16 11:25:58 AM  

StrangeQ: ha-ha-guy: /although I guess if they classified it as a vessel perhaps it was easier to seize than if it was considered a residence

That's exactly what they did.

I was listening to this story on NPR and this article left out a few details. First, the reason they wanted him to move his house to begin with was to clear the way for a luxury condominium development. It didn't way whether the city planners involved stood to make any money from the venture, of course.

Then, when all this was over, they offered him $300 in compensation--for the destruction of his house and all of his legal fees.

I'm hoping the guy sues the city board and somehow finds a way to make their members personally liable for the damages.


Man, I need to comment faster
 
2013-01-16 11:26:23 AM  
It helps casinos too. That is good. I need to visit one of those nice floating casinos.
 
2013-01-16 11:28:31 AM  

Almet: I do not wish to create joinder with you.


Obligatory
 
2013-01-16 11:30:00 AM  
SHould have said Parlay.
 
2013-01-16 11:34:03 AM  

miss diminutive: I think this ruling leaves the door open for an enterprising few to obtain a Letter of Marque and harass trade between this house and its allies.

Yar! Which of ye stout men will sign up for plunderrr?


Yarrr! Hoist the mainsail and lift the anchor!
 
2013-01-16 11:38:19 AM  

GranoblasticMan: No, no. He makes the acrylic display cases that stores put the shiny new MS Office boxes in!


people buy software at stores???? Like, physical copies at physical buildings? Packaging? Displays? My mind is melting!
 
2013-01-16 11:45:54 AM  
I'm solidly liberal and anti-wingnut, but if this decision separates "riverboat" casinos from maritime law, I'm perfectly fine with that.
 
2013-01-16 12:04:58 PM  

rev. dave: It helps casinos too. That is good. I need to visit one of those nice floating casinos.


Shiat.  We were in St. Louis a few years ago and wanted to go on one of those floating money takers.  They wanted to charge us to get on the thing.  You shiating me?  I'm gonna drop $50 and you wanna charge me for that??

/Not CSB
 
2013-01-16 12:09:15 PM  
They have some nice houseboats around here. Ive always wanted to get one. The one I liked the most here was 2 floors and on the roof had a hot tub.
 
2013-01-16 12:11:44 PM  

ChipNASA: Depends.


cache.ohinternet.com
 
2013-01-16 12:23:31 PM  
maxximillian
I kind of wish he would have said something about witches floating.

That would have been awesome. And speaking of the necessity for a sarcasm font, the supreme court already has its own font, to cut down on the distribution of fake supreme court decisions.
 
2013-01-16 12:40:49 PM  

lecgbe: US SC ustice Stephen Breyer - "Not every floating structure is a 'vessel'," Breyer wrote for the majority. "To state the obvious, a wooden washtub, a plastic dishpan, a swimming platform on pontoons, a large fishing net, a door taken off its hinges, or Pinocchio (when inside the whale) are not 'vessels'."


I know a butcher, a baker, and a candlestick maker who would take issue with that first example.
 
2013-01-16 12:45:41 PM  

SuperChuck: miss diminutive: I think this ruling leaves the door open for an enterprising few to obtain a Letter of Marque and harass trade between this house and its allies.

Yar! Which of ye stout men will sign up for plunderrr?

Yarrr! Hoist the mainsail and lift the anchor!


unshavedmouse.files.wordpress.com
www.ricardogreene.cl
 
2013-01-16 12:45:50 PM  

blatz514: rev. dave: It helps casinos too. That is good. I need to visit one of those nice floating casinos.

Shiat.  We were in St. Louis a few years ago and wanted to go on one of those floating money takers.  They wanted to charge us to get on the thing.  You shiating me?  I'm gonna drop $50 and you wanna charge me for that??

/Not CSB


Really? Never been to one, wtf with the cover charge?
 
2013-01-16 12:46:22 PM  
FTA: Lozman, 51, cheered the decision. "I feel like I'm floating on a cloud,"

Pamela Ryan, the city attorney for Riviera Beach, immediately declared Lozman to be a vessel, and seized him under maritime law.
 
2013-01-16 12:46:22 PM  
Has anyone asked P. Barnes how he feels about this ruling?
 
2013-01-16 12:53:00 PM  

czetie: FTA: Lozman, 51, cheered the decision. "I feel like I'm floating on a cloud,"

Pamela Ryan, the city attorney for Riviera Beach, immediately declared Lozman to be a vessel, and seized him under maritime law.


Nice
 
2013-01-16 01:02:51 PM  

StrangeQ: ha-ha-guy: /although I guess if they classified it as a vessel perhaps it was easier to seize than if it was considered a residence

That's exactly what they did.

I was listening to this story on NPR and this article left out a few details. First, the reason they wanted him to move his house to begin with was to clear the way for a luxury condominium development. It didn't way whether the city planners involved stood to make any money from the venture, of course.

Then, when all this was over, they offered him $300 in compensation--for the destruction of his house and all of his legal fees.

I'm hoping the guy sues the city board and somehow finds a way to make their members personally liable for the damages.


They're screwed AND their members are going to be held responsible? OW!
 
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