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(The New York Times)   Microsoft just can't catch a break. Slate sales in the 4th quarter: 1 million. iPad sales in its first 3 days: 3 million   (bits.blogs.nytimes.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, iPads, Microsoft, IHS iSuppli, Microsoft Surface, slates  
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1431 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Jan 2013 at 9:19 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



118 Comments   (+0 »)
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2013-01-16 09:21:49 AM  
For the product they JUST launched, compared to the unquestioned giant in the space?

No shiat, Sherlock.

Also the RT is just not as attractive to people. I don't know that it will ever gain that much traction. The Surface platform will probably ride on Win8 Pro tablets over the next 2 years.
 
2013-01-16 09:25:37 AM  
Yeah, but they're totally kicking Apple's ass with their Zune.
 
2013-01-16 09:26:15 AM  
When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?
 
2013-01-16 09:29:54 AM  
What does the article have to do with HP?
 
2013-01-16 09:30:20 AM  

styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?


When the collective attention span of our society became roughly a week.
 
2013-01-16 09:33:19 AM  
It's only because the Surface sucks ass.
I was hugely disappointed with the performance, and lack of apps for the thing. Developers are not writing for Win RT.
Even Samsung decided that they would not enter the Win RT tablet market, for lack of demand.
The full Win 8 Tablets probably will sell decent, but right now they are at a premium price point.
 
2013-01-16 09:34:09 AM  

LasersHurt: For the product they JUST launched, compared to the unquestioned giant in the space?

No shiat, Sherlock.

Also the RT is just not as attractive to people. I don't know that it will ever gain that much traction. The Surface platform will probably ride on Win8 Pro tablets over the next 2 years.


Just launched = October 26st 2012?
 
2013-01-16 09:36:16 AM  
graphics8.nytimes.com

I know Balmer is very important to Microsoft, but he really shouldn't be their spokesperson, he just looks creepy. Hire a handsome person with some basic knowledge. Surely they have a handsome engineer who worked on the product.
 
2013-01-16 09:38:30 AM  

stuhayes2010: LasersHurt: For the product they JUST launched, compared to the unquestioned giant in the space?

No shiat, Sherlock.

Also the RT is just not as attractive to people. I don't know that it will ever gain that much traction. The Surface platform will probably ride on Win8 Pro tablets over the next 2 years.

Just launched = October 26st 2012?


So it's been out for 2.5 months?

Yes, "just launched." It's literally the first quarter of results.
 
2013-01-16 09:41:05 AM  
"IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"


"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."
 
2013-01-16 09:46:49 AM  
If I didn't already have an Android tablet, I might buy the Surface.
 
2013-01-16 09:46:53 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: It's only because the Surface sucks ass.
I was hugely disappointed with the performance, and lack of apps for the thing. Developers are not writing for Win RT.



One reason could be because of how the opened it up to mobile developers.  A friend of mine published a relatively popular win mobile app and was anxious to do some win8 mobile/RT coding but found out, literally months before release, that they were only giving the development kit to people who had previously published win mobile apps...and even then there was a chance you wouldn't get it.  Not long after they opened it up but you had to freaking pay for the development kit (or the ability to publish apps...can't remember).

Don't take all this as gospel as I haven't really looked it up.  I was interested in mobile coding myself and need to develop some products in the next couple of years but right now I have my hands full with desktop business stuff.  I heard this through my friend who was quite frustrated so I didn't even bother with it.

In any case, I expected the price to be lower if they wanted to compete with Apple.  That tablet should have hit the market quite a bit lower than the equivalent Apple tablet.
 
2013-01-16 09:53:13 AM  

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."


"The Zune will never replace the iPod."
 
2013-01-16 09:59:52 AM  
Should've went with the Courier.
 
2013-01-16 10:01:36 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: It's only because the Surface sucks ass.
I was hugely disappointed with the performance, and lack of apps for the thing. Developers are not writing for Win RT.
Even Samsung decided that they would not enter the Win RT tablet market, for lack of demand.
The full Win 8 Tablets probably will sell decent, but right now they are at a premium price point.


The "desktop" will be an "app" one day.
 
2013-01-16 10:07:05 AM  

UberDave: That tablet should have hit the market quite a bit lower than the equivalent Apple tablet.


This.

As I see it there are two reasons I've bought computers that run Windows in the past. The lesser of the two is that I find it's much much easier to find free programs to accomplish tasks that the basic OS and the utilities it comes with either can't do or doesn't do in the way I would like (for example batch converting audio file types, or analyzing codec information on video files and stuff like that).

More importantly, I get far better performance per dollar spent on desktops and laptops. If it was reversed and Apple provided the better value, I'd probably own more mac stuff, especially since I tend to work on Apple stuff professionally. Instead all my personal gear is Windows (running Mac Drive so that data management isn't a problem) and the production rents the expensive stuff for us.

If the Surface is priced similarly to the iPad, there's no earthly reason to choose it over the iPad since you'd get neither an advantage in app selection nor in price point.
 
2013-01-16 10:15:11 AM  
Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?
Microsoft Employee #1: Its a laptop without a keyboard.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!
 
2013-01-16 10:17:09 AM  

styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?


Yeah I was reading this thing about how nintendo failed because it only shipped 400,000 new wiis.
 
2013-01-16 10:22:09 AM  

CPennypacker: Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?
Microsoft Employee #1: Its a laptop without a keyboard.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!


To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.
 
2013-01-16 10:23:31 AM  
When it's introduced by Uncle Fester, there may be an image problem.
 
2013-01-16 10:31:28 AM  

styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?


Analysts were expecting it to move 2 million, so it underperformed their already low estimates. Not a great start.
 
2013-01-16 10:32:16 AM  
Too bad they aren't able to track how many devices were returned.

I only know one person that bought an RT tablet (fanboi) and he ended up returning it after Xmas because it really couldn't do what he wanted. He does plan on getting the Pro version - but he is planning on using a mouse with it - so who knows.
 
2013-01-16 10:34:31 AM  
And this in spite of the fact I saw stupid numbers of commercials for the Surface throughout the holiday season and multiple CBS shows (and probably other networks) very blatantly showed their characters using them. I easily saw 3x more commercials for the Surface than I did for the iPad- but expected that they'd get stomped in sales despite a much higher amount of advertising...
 
2013-01-16 10:39:58 AM  
I went to a focus group about tablets -- the crowd was mostly unhip, older folk. The one unifying message they had was that they wanted a tablet that could run Excel and Powerpoint. I tried to tell them that Microsoft already had one, but I just got blank stares back. What they *really* want is for Excel and Powerpoint to run on an iPad. The Reality Distortion Field is still fairly intense, even with Jobs gone and the stock in the toilet.
 
2013-01-16 10:40:04 AM  
Despite my continually increasing hatred of Windows 8 Pro the longer I use it, I could see a way in which I would get a Surface Pro. If, when I switched between tablet and desktop mode, the interface switched between the live tiles/metro touch mode and a useful point and click mode (say, when a mouse is plugged in), I would snap one up for work use.

But as long as Frankengui remains the only available option, I will only grudgingly use Windows 8 Pro on my desktop to the extent that I absolutely must.

/ Surface RT is just plain stupid, though...
// why wouldn't I get a good tablet instead, exactly?
 
2013-01-16 10:40:38 AM  
i47.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-16 10:45:16 AM  

flaminio: I went to a focus group about tablets -- the crowd was mostly unhip, older folk. The one unifying message they had was that they wanted a tablet that could run Excel and Powerpoint. I tried to tell them that Microsoft already had one, but I just got blank stares back. What they *really* want is for Excel and Powerpoint to run on an iPad. The Reality Distortion Field is still fairly intense, even with Jobs gone and the stock in the toilet.


They may get what they want.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020343690457715484090681 6 210.html

You'll have to copy and paste. Fark won't link the WSJ article.
 
2013-01-16 10:47:19 AM  

flaminio: I went to a focus group about tablets -- the crowd was mostly unhip, older folk. The one unifying message they had was that they wanted a tablet that could run Excel and Powerpoint. I tried to tell them that Microsoft already had one, but I just got blank stares back. What they *really* want is for Excel and Powerpoint to run on an iPad. The Reality Distortion Field is still fairly intense, even with Jobs gone and the stock in the toilet.


Apple does have some good hardware, you have to admit. I still have an 80 gig iPod from the days before the touch. Of course, I run a third party firmware on it because iTunes is a farking abortion of an audio player... but the iPod itself still works wonderfully.

/Except the ear buds it comes with. I'm not an audiophile or anything but could they have designed a less effective earbud?
 
2013-01-16 10:48:26 AM  
Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls people might buy them. The 'click' sound made when a keyboard is attached is not very enticing to me as a reason to buy something.

Assuming they can do something better than an iPad.
 
2013-01-16 10:54:50 AM  

moothemagiccow: styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?

Yeah I was reading this thing about how nintendo failed because it only shipped 400,000 new wiis.


You must browse the IGN boards where 80% of the user base is a card carding analyst of the NYC financial district.
 
2013-01-16 10:57:33 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls people might buy them. The 'click' sound made when a keyboard is attached is not very enticing to me as a reason to buy something.

Assuming they can do something better than an iPad.


Maybe it can't.

And to be honest, that was my impression of the commercials, too.  I never pictured myself in a situation where I'd be dancing around looking for someone to click my tablet with.

But I would like to wear the tablet suit they build in the commercial.
 
2013-01-16 10:58:13 AM  

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."


xbox. why does no one ever remember the poo pooing from gamers when msft said they were going to make a game console?
 
2013-01-16 10:58:53 AM  
I own a Surface...and I am enjoying it a great deal. For me, it is the perfect combination of tablet and netbook that allows me to do more than play Angry Birds, surf Fark and reply to emails from my mom. I know people are going to shout me down for liking something they do not, but I think it rocks. Having a full fledged version of Office, native Remote Desktop, integration with my 360, Skydrive (which syncs any changes damn near instantly), two day battery life and a USB port that acts the same as it does on my desktop are all very alluring features to me.

Also, the Metro Modern UX is really functional on a touchscreen although still a very ugly baby. I can not argue that the third party app selection is incredibly limited at this time. However, the one that I want most, VLC, is going to be arriving shortly.

All in all, I would call it a successful bridge product that spans the gap between usage at work and at home.

/Not an MS shill
//Still hate the bipolar schizophrenic behavior of Win 8 on a full sized desktop
 
2013-01-16 11:01:07 AM  
Maybe it's because I've been using a mouse for 30 years, but I just can't get too excited over the types of touch screens we have. I'd love to have a pressure sensitive screen ala` Cintiq but tablets just aren't doing that yet.
 
2013-01-16 11:01:58 AM  

CPennypacker: Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?
Microsoft Employee #1: Its a laptop without a keyboard.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!


I'm really digging this win8 notebook for about $450. Stuck an SSD in it and it rocks.
bg.asus.com
 
2013-01-16 11:02:32 AM  

CPennypacker: Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?

Microsoft Employee #3: Didn't we make those a decade ago?
Microsoft Employee #1: Yes, we did but now they're fashionable.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!
 
2013-01-16 11:03:31 AM  
Hardly surprising. You're not cool if you don't have an iProduct.
 
2013-01-16 11:04:55 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls


maggiemenderski.files.wordpress.com

They're even pissed off using regular computers.
 
2013-01-16 11:11:01 AM  

Mercutio74: CPennypacker: Microsoft Employee #1: Apple and Amazon are making lots of money selling tablets. We should make a tablet.
Microsoft Employee #2: What's a tablet?
Microsoft Employee #1: Its a laptop without a keyboard.
Microsoft Employee #2: Brilliant! Lets make one with a keyboard!
Microsoft Employee #1: . . . Brilliant!

To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.


That's what I never understood about tablets and keyboards. Once you get a tablet with a keyboard, it costs just as much as an equally-sized and heavy laptop, and does less.
 
2013-01-16 11:11:59 AM  
Apple's ads do a good job of not only making their things look cool but generally show people DOING SOMETHING with the item in question, or show some ADVANTAGE of the item in question even if they are waaaay overselling a minor advantage.

The Surface commercials were terrible for that with random colors and flying tablets. Compare that to the 15 second iPhone commercial with the guy taking a panoramic photo of all the kids saying "Cheeeeeeeeeeese". It's a minor feature but people can instantly relate and think "Oh, I couldn't do that before, I should get one of those!" Even if they NEVER USE THAT FEATURE.

What they need to do is include Word, Excel, and PowerPoint standard on these, first. I know those are cash cows but sell them later. Right now you want toget the tablets into people's hands.

"With Office built right in, there's no need for a separate app. No need to return to the office. Edit a Word document on-the-go and on-the-fly using the touchscreen, or unfold the cover and you have a real keyboard built right in. Then relax and enjoy a movie, a game, read a book, or listen to your favorite music. It's all included, and it's only on one, superportable, tablet. Microsoft Surface."

It's really not that hard.
 
2013-01-16 11:12:19 AM  

Caelistis: I own a Surface...and I am enjoying it a great deal. For me, it is the perfect combination of tablet and netbook that allows me to do more than play Angry Birds, surf Fark and reply to emails from my mom. I know people are going to shout me down for liking something they do not, but I think it rocks. Having a full fledged version of Office, native Remote Desktop, integration with my 360, Skydrive (which syncs any changes damn near instantly), two day battery life and a USB port that acts the same as it does on my desktop are all very alluring features to me.

Also, the Metro Modern UX is really functional on a touchscreen although still a very ugly baby. I can not argue that the third party app selection is incredibly limited at this time. However, the one that I want most, VLC, is going to be arriving shortly.

All in all, I would call it a successful bridge product that spans the gap between usage at work and at home.

/Not an MS shill
//Still hate the bipolar schizophrenic behavior of Win 8 on a full sized desktop


I think their problem is that Surface is probably fine, and the comparison to iPad is probably a case of various pro's and con's and there isn't a clear winner if looked at objectively, but:

1) They were late to the market, so that is a disadvantage
2) Tying Surface and Win 8 Desktop UIs together means they put all their eggs in one basket

It would seem to make far more sense if Windows 8 has been desktop primarily, and had the ability to run Modern UI applications as well (in a window) - so that as Surface and Xbox (I presume Modern UI apps will work on Xbox, in the future if not already) builds up quality and quantity of Modern UI apps, so you could then take a call in Windows 9 of whether to try and transition Windows desktop to the backup, and switch Modern UI to be the default. Doing it when there is almost no third party Modern UI apps is moronic, and suggests they are betting the farm on the success of Surface, and would risk losing desktop supremacy to do so by alienating all their existing users.
 
2013-01-16 11:17:31 AM  

Lord Dimwit: To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.

That's what I never understood about tablets and keyboards. Once you get a tablet with a keyboard, it costs just as much as an equally-sized and heavy laptop, and does less.


Well, the keyboards I've seen the two people I know who do this are flimsy little pieces of a garbage so the overall weight is less, but you're right, the overall usefulness is very much degraded.

One of them even asked me why I have my laptop at work when I could just do what they do. I asked them how long it takes their iPad to render 30 seconds of 1080p video in After Effects.
 
2013-01-16 11:17:40 AM  
Microsoft is so farking stupid. They spent a bajillion dollars making ink work, and when the ipad came out they crapped their pants and ran (well, waddled quickly) to touch. Now they have a hybrid Frankenstein system, many of which don't do ink or do it poorly. Their best Office product, OneNote, they make a crap version of for Android and iOS, and STILL refuse to promote on their own platform. If I were a programmer on the OneNote team I'd probably have killed myself by now. People see a weak app on ipads like "Paper" and are blown away, and they see the crippled horrid OneNote and go ugh.

Here's a factoid: by slapping a Wacom digitizer and some shiatty note/drawing software on a phone, Samsung has sold more of one model (Galaxy Note, no not even counting the Note II) than ALL Windows Phone 7-8s combined from all manufacturers for 2012. That could have been you, Microsoft, but you suck at marketing and product design.

El Uno Magnifico: Should've went with the Courier.


Yep. Over and over, M$ telegraphs that they have no vision. It makes me think of Chevrolet, honestly. They have one very good product (Corvette, Xbox), and some utilitarian ones (Trucks, Windows and Office), and then a bunch of mediocre and shiatty stuff, and they kill some of their best skunkworks products (courier, Saturn).
 
2013-01-16 11:20:27 AM  
With more agressive pricing, Microsoft could actually make a go of this thing. It's not like they couldn't afford to throw around a few billion to buy market share.
 
2013-01-16 11:21:14 AM  
I'm typing this on a Surface, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies....

I love the Surface. I also have an iPad and an Android tablet and frankly see little difference in day to day use. Except, of course, I can now leave my laptop at home on short business trips thanks to having MS Office on my Surface.

Yeah, the iPad has a brazillion apps and games but I'm a grownup and couldn't care less about killing pigs. Browsing, Netflix, Kindle, RDP, and Office all work great. Throw in a 64 gb sd card, connect an external drive to the USB port, and I have everything I need.
 
2013-01-16 11:25:19 AM  

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."


PS2 is perfect. What's an xbox?
 
2013-01-16 11:26:00 AM  

Bacontastesgood: Microsoft is so farking stupid. They spent a bajillion dollars making ink work, and when the ipad came out they crapped their pants and ran (well, waddled quickly) to touch. Now they have a hybrid Frankenstein system, many of which don't do ink or do it poorly. Their best Office product, OneNote, they make a crap version of for Android and iOS, and STILL refuse to promote on their own platform. If I were a programmer on the OneNote team I'd probably have killed myself by now. People see a weak app on ipads like "Paper" and are blown away, and they see the crippled horrid OneNote and go ugh.

Here's a factoid: by slapping a Wacom digitizer and some shiatty note/drawing software on a phone, Samsung has sold more of one model (Galaxy Note, no not even counting the Note II) than ALL Windows Phone 7-8s combined from all manufacturers for 2012. That could have been you, Microsoft, but you suck at marketing and product design.

El Uno Magnifico: Should've went with the Courier.

Yep. Over and over, M$ telegraphs that they have no vision. It makes me think of Chevrolet, honestly. They have one very good product (Corvette, Xbox), and some utilitarian ones (Trucks, Windows and Office), and then a bunch of mediocre and shiatty stuff, and they kill some of their best skunkworks products (courier, Saturn).


Show me a small business that doesn't run some version of Win server?
 
2013-01-16 11:34:24 AM  
oh hey, it's the daily "Microsoft not selling a piece of hardware as good as Apple and therefore is in dire straits as a company" thread.
 
2013-01-16 11:50:06 AM  

ebamit:

Yeah, the iPad has a brazillion apps and games but I'm a grownup and couldn't care less about killing pigs. Browsing, Netflix, Kindle, RDP, and Office all work great. Throw in a 64 gb sd card, connect an external drive to the USB port, and I have everything I need.


If I'm going to be hauling around an external drive, then I may as well just take my laptop.
 
2013-01-16 11:51:37 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls people might buy them. The 'click' sound made when a keyboard is attached is not very enticing to me as a reason to buy something.


Bingo.
 
2013-01-16 11:52:52 AM  
The difference between the Surface RT and the iPad:

Price - same
Weight - same
Size - almost identical
Cameras - almost identical
Battery life - same

Where they differ is when it comes to the applications. The iPad has loads of games, along with thousands of fart apps - the Surface comes with the standard applications (Netflix, banking apps, evernote, etc) a full blown version of Office 2013 and an excellent keyboard + trackpad. Office alone is a huge benefit - the proper keyboard seals the deal.

/Has an iPad 2 and Surface RT sitting next to me
//likes the RT better
 
2013-01-16 12:02:20 PM  
It's almost as if there's some benefit to having the first of a particular product type. Some sort of advantage for moving first, or being the first mover, so to speak.
 
2013-01-16 12:05:43 PM  

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."


Do you have an example that's less than 15 years old? MS isn't the nimble company it used to be.
 
2013-01-16 12:06:53 PM  

cannibalparrot: It's almost as if there's some benefit to having the first of a particular product type. Some sort of advantage for moving first, or being the first mover, so to speak.


The iPad wasn't the first tablet.
The iPhone wasn't the first smartphone.
The iPod wasn't the first MP3 player.

Try again.
 
2013-01-16 12:09:31 PM  

Mercutio74:

To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.


You don't know many people, do you?
 
2013-01-16 12:09:37 PM  

fatbear: nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."

Do you have an example that's less than 15 years old? MS isn't the nimble company it used to be.


Combined with the fact that both of those had a lot to do with the fact that they ruled the OS for that platform. Microsoft rules the kingdom of PCLand, but they lost their collective shiat when people started moving.
 
2013-01-16 12:13:12 PM  

cannibalparrot: It's almost as if there's some benefit to having the first of a particular product type. Some sort of advantage for moving first, or being the first mover, so to speak.


FMA?? FML!!!
 
2013-01-16 12:16:39 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls people might buy them. The 'click' sound made when a keyboard is attached is not very enticing to me as a reason to buy something.

Assuming they can do something better than an iPad.


Based on the product specs, it seems like its meant for businesses where people want to run the full version of office on a tablet, and companies rather buy employees a tablet than a laptop.

But then of course, the marketing is all about trying to convince you that it's as cool as the iPad.
 
2013-01-16 12:16:55 PM  

fatbear: cannibalparrot: It's almost as if there's some benefit to having the first of a particular product type. Some sort of advantage for moving first, or being the first mover, so to speak.

The iPad wasn't the first tablet.
The iPhone wasn't the first smartphone.
The iPod wasn't the first MP3 player.

Try again.


Were there any successful tablets in non-niche markets before the iPad?
 
2013-01-16 12:19:50 PM  

Mercutio74: To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.


I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that.

My company has begun limiting the number of laptops and blackberries it gives out to employees; instead people are getting an iPad w/3G and a bluetooth keyboard. It's a lot cheaper than the laptop + blackberry combination (and people were hardly making calls on their blackberries -- they just used it for e-mail).
 
2013-01-16 12:19:51 PM  

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."


Zune is the iPod killer.
 
2013-01-16 12:21:40 PM  
There's a Surface device in my office right now. I like it just fine as a business tool. I do wish it had a higher-resolution screen (I also have a Nexus 10 sitting here), but I had no problem at all using one in place of my laptop, albeit not as quickly and with a cramped keyboard. It doesn't have some of the goofy apps that are on my Android tablets and I'm not really happy with IE as the web browser, but as a tool for actually doing work it's great.

I do have to wonder if the goal for these things isn't to push Apple out of corporate tablet deployments. These guys really do just interoperate like I expected they would. I haven't really investigated management options for them, but I suspect they exist in Microsoft's world in a way that they don't in Apple's.
 
2013-01-16 12:23:03 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: They may get what they want.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020343690457715484090681 6 210.html

You'll have to copy and paste. Fark won't link the WSJ article.


What's that all about? Some copyright issues with the Journal?
 
2013-01-16 12:23:15 PM  

fatbear: nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."

Do you have an example that's less than 15 years old? MS isn't the nimble company it used to be.


Xbox, .NET MS isn't completely dead yet
 
2013-01-16 12:24:36 PM  

MrSteve007: The difference between the Surface RT and the iPad:

Price - same
Weight - same
Size - almost identical
Cameras - almost identical
Battery life - same

Where they differ is when it comes to the applications. The iPad has loads of games, along with thousands of fart apps - the Surface comes with the standard applications (Netflix, banking apps, evernote, etc) a full blown version of Office 2013 and an excellent keyboard + trackpad. Office alone is a huge benefit - the proper keyboard seals the deal.

/Has an iPad 2 and Surface RT sitting next to me
//likes the RT better


i48.tinypic.com

Does not look like Angry Birds or fart app.

Just because you have not found a good use for an iPad, does not mean that others have not figured out how to do useful things with it.
 
2013-01-16 12:26:17 PM  
Maybe you should back of the hype machine a little and think about what the fark you're producing instead of playing catch-up and thinking advertising is the wave of the future.

I'm just giving advice, my opinion is basically useless
 
2013-01-16 12:27:50 PM  

MrSteve007: The difference between the Surface RT and the iPad:

Price - same
Weight - same
Size - almost identical
Cameras - almost identical
Battery life - same

Where they differ is when it comes to the applications. The iPad has loads of games, along with thousands of fart apps - the Surface comes with the standard applications (Netflix, banking apps, evernote, etc) a full blown version of Office 2013 and an excellent keyboard + trackpad. Office alone is a huge benefit - the proper keyboard seals the deal.

/Has an iPad 2 and Surface RT sitting next to me
//likes the RT better


i301.photobucket.com

/fanboi detected.
 
2013-01-16 12:31:16 PM  

fatbear: nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."

Do you have an example that's less than 15 years old? MS isn't the nimble company it used to be.


Microsoft will never compete with Sony and Nintendo in the video game console market?

Microsoft will never beat RIM at corporate push email to mobile devices?
 
2013-01-16 12:36:16 PM  

Bacontastesgood: Microsoft is so farking stupid. They spent a bajillion dollars making ink work, and when the ipad came out they crapped their pants and ran (well, waddled quickly) to touch. Now they have a hybrid Frankenstein system, many of which don't do ink or do it poorly. Their best Office product, OneNote, they make a crap version of for Android and iOS, and STILL refuse to promote on their own platform. If I were a programmer on the OneNote team I'd probably have killed myself by now. People see a weak app on ipads like "Paper" and are blown away, and they see the crippled horrid OneNote and go ugh.


This.

In 2003 I had a Tablet PC with the same weight/dimensions as a laptop but with pen input and incredible mobility. The handwriting recognition and changes to the OS to seamlessly navigate/create content in any application were incredible.
 
2013-01-16 12:38:15 PM  
As usual, Microsoft is late to the party and hoping that their dominance on the desktop can force their way into the market. Unfortunately, there's very little caryover for them. I say unfortunately because most of the mutual funds in my retirement account are carrying about 3% Microsoft stock.

What they really need to do is release a 7" tablet and price it $10 less then the Nexus 7. Microsoft has always been the preferred OS for commodity hardware. Somehow, Google has done what was once thought impossible and kicked them out of that space in a very short period of time.
 
2013-01-16 12:42:54 PM  
If the iPad sells 15 million units a month because everyone is an idiot and only plays Angry Birds and fart apps, you'd best be trying to copy that instead of coming up with a tablet that has a keyboard, a usb slot, and Office. Because there are not enough smart people who want to use Office on a tablet with a shiatty keyboard and no mouse.
 
2013-01-16 12:50:30 PM  

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up"


It's not like people switched to IE because they liked it better. Microsoft installed it it on everyone's computer and broke Netscape. It was kind of a big in Europe where they have laws against such things.
 
2013-01-16 12:54:10 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Does not look like Angry Birds or fart app.

Just because you have not found a good use for an iPad, does not mean that others have not figured out how to do useful things with it.


www.nclosures.com

www.mimsoftware.com

images.autodesk.com

As far as I know, none of these tasks can be accomplished on a Surface RT because the apps aren't available yet, while the iPad is FDA approved for medical imaging.

What people don't get in these threads is that the iPad isn't intended to replace your laptop, it is supposed to be a digital clipboard so you can easily deal with documents and data entry while not at a desk. The Surface RT fails because it is not powerful enough or compatible enough with existing apps to be a laptop replacement, and the device is awkward to use in portrait mode due to the 16:9 screen and without a keyboard, especially for Office docs, so it doesn't make a good digital clipboard either. Having a non-retina display is also a big minus when it comes to medical imaging, viewing CAD drawings, showing real estate properties, displaying portfolios, or any other tasks that are dependent on having a high resolution screen with good color reproduction.
 
2013-01-16 12:58:56 PM  

fatbear: Mercutio74:

To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.

You don't know many people, do you?


Well, most people I do know that need some kind of computing device tend to need one that isn't primarily designed for entertainment, email and surfing the internet.
 
2013-01-16 12:59:32 PM  

Mad_Radhu: The Surface RT fails because it is not powerful enough or compatible enough with existing apps to be a laptop replacement, and because the device is awkward to use in portrait mode due to the 16:9 screen, so it doesn't make a good digital clipboard, either. Editing Office docs without a keyboard is also awkward due to it going to desktop mode in Office 2013, which works against the digital clipboard use case.


Edited for clarity.
 
2013-01-16 01:00:46 PM  
Apple vs. Microsoft marketing:

When you walk into an Apple store, the sales reps are actually using the iPhone to place your order and process your transaction. Holy crap that makes an impression - it's not just a toy but can be used for REAL business.

I tried a Windows8/Surface demo kiosk in an airport before Christmas and the damn thing didn't work at all - totally bugged/broken got stuck on the "news" tile and no way back to the home screen. Customer service rep was absent and when he arrived had no idea how to fix it. Great job.
 
2013-01-16 01:09:26 PM  

MrSteve007: The difference between the Surface RT and the iPad:

Price - same
Weight - same
Size - almost identical
Cameras - almost identical
Battery life - same

Where they differ is when it comes to the applications. The iPad has loads of games, along with thousands of fart apps - the Surface comes with the standard applications (Netflix, banking apps, evernote, etc) a full blown version of Office 2013 and an excellent keyboard + trackpad. Office alone is a huge benefit - the proper keyboard seals the deal.

/Has an iPad 2 and Surface RT sitting next to me
//likes the RT better


No mention of crappy screen - arguably the most important part of a tablet.

Also ignored - the fact that 99.999% of the population isn't interested in anything from Microsoft that they don't HAVE to buy.
 
2013-01-16 01:13:23 PM  
The Apple comparison isn't really apt, since we're talking about Apple fourth-generation product against Microsoft's first-generation product. But still, the weak sales are not a good sign for MS.

/and they deserve it
//Win8/WinRT's UI is a damn trainwreck
 
2013-01-16 01:15:11 PM  

Mercutio74: Well, most people I do know that need some kind of computing device tend to need one that isn't primarily designed for entertainment, email and surfing the internet.


Again, you are missing the big business use cases for an iPad. One big one is giving them to field workers for data entry, surveys, and other tasks. For example, I was at Disneyland last week and they had a small army of workers surveying guests as they were exiting the park, and each of those workers had 3G-enabled iPads in ruggedized cases that were using them to fill out digital forms and send them to a central database instantly. Sure it costs them a bit of cash to buy the iPads, but it allowed them to get survey information faster and more accurately that paper forms, and you didn't have to hire staff to do data entry on the forms, so in the end you are saving money. I'm also sure that a lot of the Obama 2012 election canvassing was being done via iPad apps, and the 2020 Census will probably also be running on iPads or similar devices. There is nothing in those tasks that would have been accomplished faster or better with a more functional device with USB ports and a full version of Office. If anything, having to drop into a desktop UI for tasks like basic Office document editing is going to slow you down if you aren't in a place where you can use the keyboard cover on a Surface, especially since the desktop onscreen keyboard is so crappy compared to the Metro version (for example you have to manually hide and unhide it, rather than it intelligently hiding itself when you are not entering text like in the Metro UI or on an iPad)
 
2013-01-16 01:17:58 PM  

madgonad: Also ignored - the fact that 99.999% of the population isn't interested in anything from Microsoft that they don't HAVE to buy.


Yep out of 7 billion people on Earth - over a billion use a licensed version of Windows. MS sells roughly 20-30 million copies a month. 9 out of 10 computer users still use some form of Windows. That certainly sounds like a product that people don't want to use.

Yet people cream themselves that Apple has sold 100 million iPads over 3 years.
 
2013-01-16 01:18:48 PM  

cannibalparrot: fatbear: cannibalparrot: It's almost as if there's some benefit to having the first of a particular product type. Some sort of advantage for moving first, or being the first mover, so to speak.

The iPad wasn't the first tablet.
The iPhone wasn't the first smartphone.
The iPod wasn't the first MP3 player.

Try again.

Were there any successful tablets in non-niche markets before the iPad?


You mean globally dominant? No, that's the point. Others tried, Apple got it right. First most successful.
 
2013-01-16 01:20:58 PM  

andhravodu: fatbear: nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."

Do you have an example that's less than 15 years old? MS isn't the nimble company it used to be.

Xbox, .NET MS isn't completely dead yet


I never said they were dead, but they haven't introduced a product that takes over an existing market in over a decade. They do operating systems and business software well. Everything else...not so much.
 
2013-01-16 01:22:38 PM  

Mad_Radhu: fatbear: nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."

Do you have an example that's less than 15 years old? MS isn't the nimble company it used to be.

Microsoft will never compete with Sony and Nintendo in the video game console market?

Microsoft will never beat RIM at corporate push email to mobile devices?


OK, 10 years. The xBox is 11 years old now.

And "corporate push" was just leveraging an existing app (Exchange server) not introducing a new one and capturing a market.
 
2013-01-16 01:24:26 PM  

Mercutio74: fatbear: Mercutio74:

To be fair, anyone I know who uses an iPad for more than Angry Birds generally has a little stand for the unit and a keyboard to go with it.

You don't know many people, do you?

Well, most people I do know that need some kind of computing device tend to need one that isn't primarily designed for entertainment, email and surfing the internet.


Yeah, I stand by my statement. "Computing device" tablet.

I use a tablet when I need a tablet, and it does a shiatload more than the 3 tasks you listed. I use a desktop when I need a "computing device."
 
2013-01-16 01:28:07 PM  

stuhayes2010: Surely they have a handsome engineer who worked on the product.


Bwahahahahaha
 
2013-01-16 01:50:40 PM  
Cynical hypothesis: Tablets are nearly useless pieces of hardware that don't fill a void for the majority of people if you have both a smart phone and a desktop/laptop (which a great many people already have). It has neither the portability nor use of a phone, and none of the power or freedom (customization) of a real computer. Therefore, most people who buy one of these things will either be people who want to show off the fact that they have this new, rare, expensive thing (ie, tech geeks or people who loves gadgets for example), or they are people who want to get something because of the brand.

I propose that the first of these two groups already has a tablet and sees little need to get another one, and the second of these two groups will never buy something that doesn't come from the right brand anyways.

I only say 'most' people. I can see a legitimate use for these things at places like trade shows where someone wants to show you something on a portable screen. There will also probably be people who don't have a smart phone or a laptop and buy one as a replacement for one or the other. There's also brand momentum: people who buy things because other people have bought things, and if lots of other people bought that thing, it's gotta be great, right (wii, britney spears CDs, etc)?

Anyways, the point is, I seriously doubt any competitor to Apple will be able to match Apple's numbers in the tablet game, even if it offers more features at a cheaper price. The fact that the Surface doesn't do either of those things certainly doesn't help its chances.
 
2013-01-16 01:51:22 PM  

cefm: When you walk into an Apple store, the sales reps are actually using the iPhone to place your order and process your transaction. Holy crap that makes an impression - it's not just a toy but can be used for REAL business.


Last time I was in a Microsoft store, I talked to a guy who seemed to have pretty good up close and personal knowledge of data integration features across multiple hardware platforms and business software initiatives. I asked him a stumper question. He told me he'd have someone get back to me. Sure enough, I got an email from somebody with a Microsoft.com email address about it a couple days later.

I'm glad Apple can make a point of sale system work and all but no matter how you slice it, Microsoft covers way, WAY more ground in the real work department.
 
2013-01-16 01:52:54 PM  
One thing to keep in mind is iOS was already polished for touch controls. With the iPad they just upscaled the iPhone/iPod touch and *boom* already had a strong tablet ecosystem. Same with Android for the most part. Win 8 RT seems like quite a lot of new work and it brings very little (does it support WinPhone 7 stuff?) with it. I'm not a Surface fan, but I can appreciate that they're trying to fight an uphill battle with it. 1m sales with support for nothing is actually pretty decent IMHO.
 
2013-01-16 02:00:03 PM  

styckx: moothemagiccow: styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?

Yeah I was reading this thing about how nintendo failed because it only shipped 400,000 new wiis.

You must browse the IGN boards where 80% of the user base is a card carding analyst of the NYC financial district.


Basically any game forum or blog. It's bizarre how hiveminded people can be.
 
2013-01-16 02:02:03 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Does not look like Angry Birds or fart app.

Just because you have not found a good use for an iPad, does not mean that others have not figured out how to do useful things with it.


Any tablet can read a PDF, even those $50 ones at walgreens
 
2013-01-16 02:08:31 PM  
Looks like Xbox Live Arcade games are now being ported to Windows 8 & Surface RT - including cross platform multiplayer support. Link

That's a pretty nice bump to the quality of apps available on RT - and shows why MS is unifying their UI across all of their consumer platforms.
 
2013-01-16 02:08:32 PM  

styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?


When it was projected they would be moving 2 million pieces in the same quarter.
 
2013-01-16 02:11:22 PM  

moothemagiccow: styckx: When did moving 1 million pieces of product in a quarter become a bad thing?

Yeah I was reading this thing about how nintendo failed because it only shipped 400,000 new wiis.


If that's total and counting Japan, that is sort of lack-luster by Nintendo standards; then again, the Wii set the bar really really high.

/One of the 12 Vita owners
 
2013-01-16 03:16:11 PM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: With more agressive pricing, Microsoft could actually make a go of this thing. It's not like they couldn't afford to throw around a few billion to buy market share.


This
 
2013-01-16 05:00:34 PM  

nmemkha: "IE will NEVER catch up with Netscape. They have the browser market locked up."

"WordPerfect is the de-facto standard. This Word program is trash!"
"Excel can never complete with Lotus 1-2-3. WTF is 'Windows'?"

"Microsoft is foolish to think they can ever catch up to Apple in the tablet space."



Never say never, but....

It's not gonna happen for a decade or more (if ever). Apple is brand. Not a technology company. Owning an ipad is more about saying "I own an ipad" than it is about anything the ipad can do or the tech specs.
 
2013-01-16 05:16:46 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: TheGreatGazoo: Maybe if their ads showed what they could do better than an iPad instead of showing dancing hipsters and angry school girls

They're even pissed off using regular computers.


So much this. Advertising these days...sigh.
 
2013-01-16 05:39:52 PM  

KFBR392: Owning an ipad is more about saying "I own an ipad" than it is about anything the ipad can do or the tech specs.


I'm going to guess you have no real use for a tablet. Most of the iPad owners truly couldn't give a fark about Apple OR the tech specs - it's about what they can *do* with the tablet.
 
2013-01-16 06:20:56 PM  

fatbear: KFBR392: Owning an ipad is more about saying "I own an ipad" than it is about anything the ipad can do or the tech specs.

I'm going to guess you have no real use for a tablet. Most of the iPad owners truly couldn't give a fark about Apple OR the tech specs - it's about what they can *do* with the tablet.


The same tasks as everything else on the market, but while having something cool and newfangled? Tablet's have got some niche applications, but c'mon now don't be intentionally dense about the reality of the consumer market.
 
2013-01-16 07:11:54 PM  
I'm jn

ProfessorOhki: fatbear: KFBR392: Owning an ipad is more about saying "I own an ipad" than it is about anything the ipad can do or the tech specs.

I'm going to guess you have no real use for a tablet. Most of the iPad owners truly couldn't give a fark about Apple OR the tech specs - it's about what they can *do* with the tablet.

The same tasks as everything else on the market, but while having something cool and newfangled? Tablet's have got some niche applications, but c'mon now don't be intentionally dense about the reality of the consumer market.


In a side-by-side comparison multiple tablets doing several tasks I needed to accomplish, the iPad came out faster, more usable, and more stable. In addition, I like the particular piece of software that's written for my most critical task, and it's iPad only - the Android competition is ok but not as good.

It's simple. I use what works best for me. I suspect most others do the same. I don't give a fark what tech I use as long as it gets the job done better than any reasonable alternative.
 
2013-01-16 07:14:49 PM  
If I was going to buy a Windows-based tablet with a keyboard, I'd buy a Yoga.

Outside of price, there must be some advantage to the Surface. I just don't know what it is.
 
2013-01-16 07:31:36 PM  
I actually like what little I've seen of the Surface - satisfied with my Android, so not going to swap soon - and probably would have bought one if I'd waited a year. MS's only mistake seems to have been coming a tad late to the picnic.

I also wonder why Microsoft decided to make hardware. The reason Microsoft owned the market in the 1990s was because its software would run on any Intel or AMD licensed hardware, while an Apple was an Apple was an Apple. Android seems to be doing now what Microsoft did 20 years ago, while Microsoft is chasing Apple. At least, that's the hasty conclusion I draw from the available marketing materials.

I could be wrong; I haven't used the Surface enough to know whether it's a pile of junk and probably won't as long as I can get more utility out of the Acer. But that's how I feel from the advertising I'm seeing. It makes Microsoft look out of touch.
 
2013-01-16 07:56:20 PM  

fatbear: I'm jnProfessorOhki: fatbear: KFBR392: Owning an ipad is more about saying "I own an ipad" than it is about anything the ipad can do or the tech specs.

I'm going to guess you have no real use for a tablet. Most of the iPad owners truly couldn't give a fark about Apple OR the tech specs - it's about what they can *do* with the tablet.

The same tasks as everything else on the market, but while having something cool and newfangled? Tablet's have got some niche applications, but c'mon now don't be intentionally dense about the reality of the consumer market.

In a side-by-side comparison multiple tablets doing several tasks I needed to accomplish, the iPad came out faster, more usable, and more stable. In addition, I like the particular piece of software that's written for my most critical task, and it's iPad only - the Android competition is ok but not as good.

It's simple. I use what works best for me. I suspect most others do the same. I don't give a fark what tech I use as long as it gets the job done better than any reasonable alternative.


You seem to think I'm trying to say one brand of slate is superior to the other. What I'm actually saying is slates are gimmicky and only good for some super specific instances. If you're doing field work where there's not a table to be hand for miles, sure. If you're in an office. you're just wasting time because you think tablets are neat. If you're at home on the couch, whatever floats your boat, I guess... but let me know when you can hit a reasonable WPM on a tablet you haven't converted into an underpowered laptop with peripherals.

Now, convertible tablets I have some respect for and because of that, despite not being a fan of the OS, I hope the (non-RT) Surface products are successful; you can use them as a PC in the 99% cases where that's the optimal and you can still use them as a tablet that one time it seems more useful.
 
2013-01-16 09:49:50 PM  

ProfessorOhki:
You seem to think I'm trying to say one brand of slate is superior to the other. What I'm actually saying is slates are gimmicky and only good for some super specific instances. If you're doing field work where there's not a table to be hand for miles, sure. If you're in an office. you're just wasting time because you think tablets are neat. If you're at home on the couch, whatever floats your boat, I guess... but let me know when you can hit a reasonable WPM on a tablet you haven't converted into an underpowered laptop with peripherals.

Now, convertible tablets I have some respect for and because of that, despite not being a fan of the OS, I hope the (non-RT) Surface products are successful; you can use them as a PC in the 99% cases where that's the optimal and you can still use them as a tablet that one time it seems more useful.


No, I think you're trying to say "Owning an ipad is more about saying "I own an ipad" than it is about anything the ipad can do."

I generally hit 0-1 WPM when I use my iPad. When I'm using it, I don't need or want a PC. It's not all about data entry and CPU cycles, you know.

I'm saying most people who own an iPad (and there are millions) think the iPad is the best tool for the job at hand, not a fashion statement.
 
2013-01-16 10:24:10 PM  

fatbear: ProfessorOhki:
You seem to think I'm trying to say one brand of slate is superior to the other. What I'm actually saying is slates are gimmicky and only good for some super specific instances. If you're doing field work where there's not a table to be hand for miles, sure. If you're in an office. you're just wasting time because you think tablets are neat. If you're at home on the couch, whatever floats your boat, I guess... but let me know when you can hit a reasonable WPM on a tablet you haven't converted into an underpowered laptop with peripherals.

Now, convertible tablets I have some respect for and because of that, despite not being a fan of the OS, I hope the (non-RT) Surface products are successful; you can use them as a PC in the 99% cases where that's the optimal and you can still use them as a tablet that one time it seems more useful.

No, I think you're trying to say "Owning an ipad is more about saying "I own an ipad" than it is about anything the ipad can do."

I generally hit 0-1 WPM when I use my iPad. When I'm using it, I don't need or want a PC. It's not all about data entry and CPU cycles, you know.

I'm saying most people who own an iPad (and there are millions) think the iPad is the best tool for the job at hand, not a fashion statement.


Well, they've sold something like 100.1 million of them, so sure, I'll concede: at least 2% of iPad purchases were because they thought an iPad would be the best tool for the job with no regard for their trendiness or cool-factor.

/Ignoring people who bought multiples, obviously
 
2013-01-16 10:27:03 PM  
It must be refreshing to be able to look at a group of 100 million people you've never met and say to yourself, "98% of you are idiots." Does wonders for your self-esteem, I imagine.
 
2013-01-16 11:07:36 PM  
Wow. Another Windows tablet. Bet that'll be huge. Just like the last 45 Windows tablets.
 
2013-01-17 02:03:16 AM  

fatbear: It must be refreshing to be able to look at a group of 100 million people you've never met and say to yourself, "98% of you are idiots." Does wonders for your self-esteem, I imagine.


You're putting words in my mouth. You're not an idiot for buying something because you think it's cool looking, futuristic, trendy, or fashionable. I'm just saying that most consumer slate purchases aren't primarily driven by, "wow, this does X so much better than my laptop/phone."

Don't you find it funny people always seem to feel the need to justify their purchase to strangers? I could say, "slates are absolute garbage" and you could reply, "actually, my iPad is great; I've been really happy with it," but no on ever does, it's always, "It does things no other device could match! I've done the research! Nothing else could fill this need better! It has the features that are right for me!" That disproportionately defensive posture is a pretty good indicator of denial and regret, just sayin'
 
2013-01-17 07:04:57 AM  
I find it more funny that you find you need to denigrate 98 million people.
 
2013-01-17 10:02:26 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: Show me a small business that doesn't run some version of Win server?


Well.... mine doesn't, but that's because we just don't need anything centralized. I'm pretty sure lots of restaurants and gas stations and small offices don't need server either. I think you misunderstood my post. I like a lot of stuff Microsoft does. Utilitarian is a good thing, just like Chevy/Ford trucks. People like to hate on Office, but holy crap does every other option blow chunks by comparison. I have Windows 7 on numerous machines and it rocks. All the software I need, some of it way more expensive than any one computer, runs on windows, and wine is still not good enough.

I complain specifically because it's so painful to see a company that makes products I need, one that is innovating, internally, screw up so badly. Those innovations are killed by senior marketing assholes in favor of mediocre junk. Like SkyDrive over Live Mesh. Too many examples lately. It's like being a Bears fan. Fire Ballmer like we dumped Lovie.
 
2013-01-17 10:23:07 AM  

Bacontastesgood: I complain specifically because it's so painful to see a company that makes products I need, one that is innovating, internally, screw up so badly. Those innovations are killed by senior marketing assholes in favor of mediocre junk. Like SkyDrive over Live Mesh. Too many examples lately. It's like being a Bears fan. Fire Ballmer like we dumped Lovie.


Gabe Newell recently leveled the same criticism. Middle managers and marketing departments are dictating the direction companies are going and it ends up releasing products that are mediocre, playing catch up, and helps drive companies further away from the pulse of their customers. He specifically called out Microsoft because they saw what happened to IBM during the rise of MS in the 90's and apparently learned nothing from it.
 
2013-01-17 02:05:36 PM  

fatbear: I find it more funny that you find you need to denigrate 98 million people.


I think it's funny that you think 98 million iPad sales means 98 million people buying them.
 
2013-01-17 05:24:31 PM  

MightyPez: Gabe Newell recently leveled the same criticism. Middle managers and marketing departments are dictating the direction companies are going and it ends up releasing products that are mediocre, playing catch up, and helps drive companies further away from the pulse of their customers. He specifically called out Microsoft because they saw what happened to IBM during the rise of MS in the 90's and apparently learned nothing from it.


I'll have to look him up. Yeah, IBM is a great example - I was there in the early 90s when the diarrhea was going into the turboprop. In a weird way i'm proud of how they finally stopped the slide and turned things around. Compared to ATT who turned bell labs and bellcore into worthless toilets.

In fairness I think it's really hard to have a set of managers who can do technology right. MBA programs in particular seem to ruin people who previously had good brains.
 
2013-01-17 06:59:21 PM  

Bacontastesgood: I'll have to look him up.


In case you have time to kill:

Nerdist Podcast

Episode 306 primarily talks about games, but 307 talks heavily about Valve and their corporate philosophy and structure.
 
2013-01-17 09:01:00 PM  
Surface and RT are not going to sell as much as it should because it uses/is an OS from msft that is not able to run the programs that people already have for their current OS from msft. Consumers know there is a different from android and windows, along with knowing that ios is different from mac. Consumers do not know there is a difference from the x86 OS and RT, nor should there be a difference besides power consumption.
 
2013-01-17 10:35:36 PM  

MightyPez: In case you have time to kill:

Nerdist Podcast

Episode 306 primarily talks about games, but 307 talks heavily about Valve and their corporate philosophy and structure.


Thanks, will give a listen. I should have recognized Newell as the Valve guy, D'oh!
 
2013-01-18 01:37:44 AM  
All tablets are pieces of garbage. My phone does what they do just fine. My computer does everything else.

Surface Pro to replace my laptop on the other hand sounds like a good proposition.
 
2013-01-18 05:58:25 PM  

fatbear: I'm jnProfessorOhki: fatbear: KFBR392: Owning an ipad is more about saying "I own an ipad" than it is about anything the ipad can do or the tech specs.

I'm going to guess you have no real use for a tablet. Most of the iPad owners truly couldn't give a fark about Apple OR the tech specs - it's about what they can *do* with the tablet.

The same tasks as everything else on the market, but while having something cool and newfangled? Tablet's have got some niche applications, but c'mon now don't be intentionally dense about the reality of the consumer market.

In a side-by-side comparison multiple tablets doing several tasks I needed to accomplish, the iPad came out faster, more usable, and more stable. In addition, I like the particular piece of software that's written for my most critical task, and it's iPad only - the Android competition is ok but not as good.

It's simple. I use what works best for me. I suspect most others do the same. I don't give a fark what tech I use as long as it gets the job done better than any reasonable alternative.



Let me be more clear. ipads (and tablets in general) serve no real purpose. They fill an artificially created void. It's a solution in search of a problem.

Laptops took desktops and made them portable. Smartphones took laptops and put them in the palm of your hand and gave you broadband internet wherever you are......tablets allow you play angry birds on a larger screen....(one of these things just doesn't belong).

Don't get me wrong. They are fun. And apple makes a great tablet. But people buy it because it says apple on box. Not because of anything under the hood.
 
2013-01-19 06:56:07 AM  

KFBR392: tablets in general serve no real purpose.


"all the calculations that would ever be needed in this country could be done on the three digital computers which were then being built-one in Cambridge, one in Teddington, and one in Manchester. No one else, he said, would ever need machines of their own, or would be able to afford to buy them."

"Remote shopping, while entirely feasible, will flop"

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home"

"The world potential market for copying machines is 5000 at most"

"Fooling around with alternating current is just a waste of time. Nobody will use it, ever"

"But what... is it good for?"

The biggest difference between the above statements and yours is that most of the world doesn't give a fark what you think.
 
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